Eastern Europe/Ukraine

GeorgeWelch · Post by **GeorgeWelch** » 12 Apr 2014 21:21

Virupaksha wrote: may be because unlike the west, russia supports democracy and not violence powered thuggery

pankajs · Post by **pankajs** » 12 Apr 2014 21:46

Reuters India ‏@ReutersIndia 36m

Militants raise Russian flag in Ukraine city, risk of "gas war" looms http://reut.rs/1kFWTdE

(Reuters) - Pro-Russian militants raised their flags over official buildings in two eastern Ukrainian cities on Saturday, deepening a stand-off with Moscow which, Kiev warned, was dragging Europe closer to a "gas war" that could disrupt supplies across the continent.

At least 20 men armed with pistols and rifles took over the police station and a security services headquarters in Slaviansk, about 150 km (90 miles) from the border with Russia.

Officials said the men had seized hundreds of pistols from arsenals in the buildings. The militants replaced the Ukrainian flag on one of the buildings with the red, white and blue Russian flag.

Some local residents helped the militants build barricades out of tyres in anticipation that police would try to force them out, a Reuters photographer at the scene said.

UlanBatori · Post by **UlanBatori** » 12 Apr 2014 22:09

How exactly were the lives of ethnic Russians 'destroyed'

Oh! I am citing the Russian minister's statements of course. Propaganda, probably, but no worse than what is seen in See Enn Enn.

devesh · Post by **devesh** » 12 Apr 2014 22:20

Kanwal Sibal raises many interesting points. points that many on BRF have been astute enough to see through in the past several years:

1. Constantly attacking Russia makes PRC more powerful.
2. the US-PRC fusion of economies is greater concern for countries like India.

member_20292 · Post by **member_20292** » 12 Apr 2014 23:43

GeorgeWelch wrote:
pankajs wrote:^^
OT but couldn't resist. A fighter that was rejected on technical grounds by the end user .. the best for the end user ..
Because a technical only analysis ignores the financial component, and India can no longer afford to ignore the financial component.

Both technical and financial criteria need to be evaluated in a holistic manner.

and what other reasons GW?

i think all of us here are forgetting the old argument , so let's have another loooong discussion about this topic again !

Virupaksha · Post by **Virupaksha** » 12 Apr 2014 23:48

GeorgeWelch wrote:
Virupaksha wrote:According to US, Russia had the temerity to oppose a coup sponsored by them.

That is where the whole of the whine from US lies.
It's not 'opposing a coup' that bothers the west, it's the naked territorial expansion.

Since WWII the standard has been that it's no longer acceptable for major powers to expand their territory through force or threat of force. Sure their have been proxy wars over 'spheres of influence' or whatever, but no one is going out conquering their neighbors and adding them to their empire.

That was dealt with over 60 years ago and the cost was so high no one wants to deal with it again.

Those words are suitable for those who came out from under a rock after 60 years.

west germany annexed east germany. uk bought diego garcia and it is under us control now. Ofcourse china annexed tibet and france tried its best to reannex vietnam and lost around a lakh soldiers. - all within your 60 year limit. The last major annexations by US were in 1936.

Naked territorial ambition didnt bother the west when it was helping Saddam in iran nor did it bother them when it expanded the nato. Others sphere of influence should not come within 1000 km while natos can come right into the border.

after all for the US, democracy, people's rights, their freedoms only matter when it can be used to needle the enemy. Otherwise, as the US political hero, kissinger says, "he is our ba$tard".

Unfortunately for the brainwashed US sheep who dance to the tune of nyt/cnn, logic, consistency, morals,principles never enter the picture. So bringing democracy becomes important when the ruler is not their ba$tard - but when democracy throws up people opposed to living under US thumb, suddenly democracy, rule of law can be thrown into dustbin. Ofcourse which rhetoric as logic is to be shouted comes straight from the pulpit of the masters in US ministry of foreign affairs.

Virupaksha · Post by **Virupaksha** » 13 Apr 2014 00:00

GeorgeWelch wrote:
Virupaksha wrote: may be because unlike the west, russia supports democracy and not violence powered thuggery
hmmm

In the past 15 years since Putin, russia has supported democracy much much more than the violence powered thuggery from the west.

The mistake of the democratically elected legitimate president of ukraine, Yanukovych was his humanity. He did not have the heart to do what the west's closest allies do.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bahraini_u ... 93present)

Suraj · Post by **Suraj** » 13 Apr 2014 00:20

GeorgeWelch wrote:It's not 'opposing a coup' that bothers the west, it's the naked territorial expansion.

Since WWII the standard has been that it's no longer acceptable for major powers to expand their territory through force or threat of force. Sure their have been proxy wars over 'spheres of influence' or whatever, but no one is going out conquering their neighbors and adding them to their empire.

That was dealt with over 60 years ago and the cost was so high no one wants to deal with it again.

And that entire line of reasoning is convenient hypocrisy. "It's ok to invade and ransack a country, overthrow its leader - democratic or otherwise, but it's NOT ok to grab territory." This may make perfect sense to the 'west', and help them maintain a veneer or moral uprightness in their own minds, but is laughable nonsense from an Indian perspective.

The Russians are doing exactly what the US and EU have done before - use inducements, the threat of financial repression and/or millitary force, if not actual sanctions, to influence a smaller state. There's no 'we only did this; they did THAT' . Whether 'this' is worse than 'that' is merely one persons opinion, and not in anyway way a conclusive argument of relative merit. In both cases the substance of the matter is identical - big powers interfere in the activities of smaller countries. Both the US and Russia do this, and have always been doing this.

anmol · Post by **anmol** » 13 Apr 2014 01:25

Philip · Post by **Philip** » 13 Apr 2014 01:35

Thousands rally in Donetsk, activists take over govt buildings in Slavyansk
Published time: April 12, 2014
http://rt.com/news/rally-donetsk-slavyansk-ukraine-160/

Thousands of people have gathered in Donetsk,in eastern Ukraine,calling for the federalization of the country.The demonstrators also started forming militias to help anti-Maidan protesters in Slavyansk, who seized several government buildings in the city.

Activists in Slavyansk, a city in eastern Ukraine located in the north of the Donetsk region with a population of 120,000, seized the police headquarters and the city council building Saturday. Police said Anti-Maidan protesters also seized the local office of Ukraine’s Security Service, the SBU.

Image from maps.google.com

Image from maps.google.com

They hoisted a Russian flag on top of the police HQ, Slavyansk Mayor Nelly Shtepa said.

“As I negotiated with the activists today, they explained that they represent the Donetsk regional people’s militia. They said that they oppose Kiev authorities and today they are negotiating with them” she said.

Shtepa added that the people of the city support the activists’ calls for a referendum on the region’s federalization, and are urging the police to side with the people.

If the authorities in Kiev will “try to suppress the uprising, many civilians will die, this cannot be allowed,” Shtepa said.

An armed pro-Russian activists addresses supporters gathered in front of a police station in the eastern Ukrainian city of Slavyansk after it was seized by a few dozen gunmen on April 12, 2014. (AFP Photo / Anatoliy Stepanov)

An armed pro-Russian activists addresses supporters gathered in front of a police station in the eastern Ukrainian city of Slavyansk after it was seized by a few dozen gunmen on April 12, 2014. (AFP Photo / Anatoliy Stepanov)

There are reports that the activists in Slavyansk have taken up weapons. However, one of the members of the Donbas people’s militia told media that no one was hurt during the storm of the police HQ, adding that the government building will be under their control until a referendum is held.

Ukraine’s coup-imposed Interior Minister Arsen Avakov wrote on his Facebook page that the raid on police HQ was carried out by masked men with guns. He promised that the government’s answer to the raid would be “very harsh.” Avakov added that a Special Forces unit has been deployed to the scene.

Anti-Maidan protesters stopped two buses full of security forces which were heading from Donetsk to Slavyansk, Rossiya 24 TV channel reported. After negotiations, the security forces turned back to their Donetsk HQ.

“I can’t say there was a conflict between the police and activists, the latter just accompanied the Special Unit forces back to their HQ,” said a Rossiya 24 correspondent, who was at the scene.

A pro-Russian activist reaches through razor wire to receive a ribbon of St. George, a well-known Russian symbol of military valor which has become a symbol of pro-Russian protesters, at a barricade outside the regional state administration building in Donetsk, eastern Ukraine, on April 12, 2014. (AFP Photo / Max Vetrov)

A pro-Russian activist reaches through razor wire to receive a ribbon of St. George, a well-known Russian symbol of military valor which has become a symbol of pro-Russian protesters, at a barricade outside the regional state administration building in Donetsk, eastern Ukraine, on April 12, 2014. (AFP Photo / Max Vetrov)

Amid the protests calling for Ukraine’s federalization, acting president Aleksandr Turchinov sacked the head of the SBU security service for the Donetsk region, Valery Ivanov, on Saturday, according to a decree published on the presidential website.

The regional police chief of Donetsk, Konstantin Pozhidayev, said Saturday he was quitting his post after the protesters urged him to step down.

Unrest has gripped eastern Ukraine after the EuroMaidan protests in Kiev, which resulted in a coup on February 22. People in Donetsk, Kharkov, Lugansk and other cities are calling for a referendum to decide on the status of the Donbass regions.

The Donetsk region has been witnessing mass protests. On Saturday the residents of the towns Krasnuy Liman, Krasnoarmeisk and Drujkovka took to the streets demanding a Crimea-type referendum and seizing government buildings. The local security forces refuse to take back the buildings as commanded by the Kiev authorities.

http://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/a ... on-ukraine
Pro-Russian gunmen seize key buildings in eastern Ukraine
Armed men storm police station and state security service building in Slavyansk and distribute weapons

heguardian.com, Saturday 12 April 2014 13.35 BST

Armed pro-Russian activists in Slavyansk
Armed pro-Russian activists guard a police station in the eastern Ukrainian city of Slavyansk. Photograph: Anatoliy Stepanov/AFP/Getty Images

Gunmen have seized a police station and other government buildings in Ukraine's eastern industrial heartland amid a tense deadlock in the country's east, where armed pro-Russian protesters have barricaded themselves inside government buildings and demanded independence from Kiev.

Ukraine's interior minister, Arsen Avakov, said another group of gunmen tried to storm the Donetsk regional prosecutor's office but was repelled.

The early morning raid on the police station happened in Slavyansk, a town about 35 miles north of the regional capital, Donetsk. The men collected weapons and distributed them to their supporters. A second group later took the headquarters of the state security service.

"Armed men in camouflage fatigues have taken the police station in Slavyansk," Avakov wrote on his Facebook page. "Here, our response will be very severe."

A local police official told Kiev's private Channel 5 television that the raid was staged by six men who had fired several shots into the air before storming the station. It was not immediately clear how the local police responded or whether the gunmen had taken any hostages.

Avakov said that Ukrainian special forces had been dispatched to the scene.

"There is zero tolerance for armed terrorists," he said.

The interior minister added that a separate group of assailants had tried to take control of the prosecutor's office in Donetsk.

"They have all been expelled. The building has been clear of unauthorised personnel," he wrote.

"Another self-declared defence minister has been arrested."

Protesters in the eastern Ukrainian cities of Donetsk, Kharkiv and Luhansk seized government buildings on Sunday. While police managed to clear the Luhansk office swiftly, protesters in Donetsk and Kharkiv remain entrenched.

The Donetsk adminstration centre remains under the control of several hundred gunmen who have proclaimed the creation of their own "people's republic" and called on the Russin president, Vladimir Putin, to send in troops.

In a further sign of growing tensions between the two countries, Ukraine's state-run energy company Naftogaz on Saturday suspended gas payments to Russia.

Russian gas giant Gazprom earlier this month increased gas price for Ukrainian consumers to $485 per 1,000 cubic meters (tcm) from $268 for the first quarter, saying Kiev was no longer eligible for previous discounts.

Naftogaz chief executive Andriy Kobolev told the Zerkalo Nedely weekly that payments would be suspended until the conclusion of price negotiations.

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world ... [b]Ukraine latest: Armed men raise Russian flag at seized Slaviansk police HQ [/b]

Armed men have raised a Russian flag at a police and security headquarters that they seized on Saturday morning, in the latest takeover of a public buildings by Pro-Russian protesters in eastern Ukraine.

Around twenty men carrying pistols and rifles took over the buildings in Slaviansk. Officials said the men took hundreds of pistols from arsenals in the head quarters, before replacing the Ukrainian flag on one of the buildings with the red, white and blue Russian flag.

Philip · Post by **Philip** » 13 Apr 2014 04:05

And now the Venetians,want back their independence and have every right to do so,having been a famous city state like Singapore,the richest in the world at its time! Like the Crimea,Venice has a massive naval base called the Arsenale which is used by the Italian navy today.Left to itself,Venice and the Veneto region ,one of the world's most famous tourist destinations,could easily look after itself financially.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/

Venetian separatists ask Rome to return their embassy

The Venetian independence movement wants to use Rome's iconic Palazzo Venezia as their embassy, following an unofficial 'referendum' in which a majority of voters backed separating from Italy

Cosmo_R · Post by **Cosmo_R** » 13 Apr 2014 04:14

Philip wrote:And now the Venetians,want back their independence and have every right to do so,having been a famous city state like Singapore,the richest in the world at its time! Like the Crimea,Venice has a massive naval base called the Arsenale which is used by the Italian navy today.Left to itself,Venice and the Veneto region ,one of the world's most famous tourist destinations,could easily look after itself financially.]

Que ce'st triste venice

http://www.wowzone.com/venise_aznavour.htm

They are blind of course

ramana · Post by **ramana** » 13 Apr 2014 05:37

So Westphalian construct is unraveling.

UlanBatori · Post by **UlanBatori** » 13 Apr 2014 06:54

Interesting. Genoa, Sparta, Rome, Sicily, Venice... the EU can recruit MANY new members!

Virupaksha · Post by **Virupaksha** » 13 Apr 2014 07:15

ramana wrote:So Westphalian construct is unraveling.

not yet. They still have enough fuel to kill these threats.

This is a waiting time as a lot depends on what happens to the scots

a neo-roman empire is coming up on brussels. That and brussels interactions with pope will have a large effect.

Scots might have to play off continental powers against the queendom to keep their independence.

Suraj · Post by **Suraj** » 13 Apr 2014 07:42

That phrase from GeorgeWelch makes me wonder - is the US and EU's primary latent fear that the territorial grab action is something they worry about encountering within EU itself ? There's no shortage of that within the EU historically, and west European irredentism has been the primary source of world conflict in the past 100 years. None of that has fully gone away, and a few remain quietly simmering underneath - the Catalan and Basque movements, the Flemis vs Walloon faultlines and more. Most of that has been papered over due to common prosperity, but as circumstances become harder due to continued economic stagnation and high unemployment, it wouldn't surprise me if policymakers worry about some of these raising their heads again.

UlanBatori · Post by **UlanBatori** » 13 Apr 2014 07:45

Do you think Scotland will really declare independence and start driving on the right side of the road like Kerala State Transport Fast Passenger buses?

member_28352 · Post by **member_28352** » 13 Apr 2014 07:51

Venice and Scotland were in the middle ages the sources of the banking cliques that helped first finance the religious wars of Europe and then funded the colonialism of Africa and Asia. Odd, that these should be the first two places to demand azaadi, at this stage. I'd say both of these independence movements are battles against the Euro and all that it stands for.

Philip · Post by **Philip** » 13 Apr 2014 07:58

Alex-the Salmon was having a dig at his English relatives! latest polls show that Independence for Scotland is gaining ground.I've been mentioning this growing trend over the last 5 years.Scots who pooh-pooed Independence now want it as they are fed up with the Westminister clique running/ruining their lives. If Ireland can exist as a republic,supposedly populated by winos according to the English ,why not the industrious Scots?

Some years ago the Swiss system of cantons was touted as the answer to the Lankan devolution issue.We see smaller units of administration happening even in India.Chattisgarh,Uttarkhand,Jarkhand ,Ghorkaland and now Telengana.A pal of mine from the south says that the next demand maybe from West Tamilandu,for "Kongunadu",an ancient entity,lands to the west bordering Kerala. A new Kongu party is a BJP ally in the state.

UlanBatori · Post by **UlanBatori** » 13 Apr 2014 08:03

why not the industrious Scots?

Ah! Good to check their history to see why a mountainous country like theirs lost their independence to a bunch of flatland bullies. It's because Scotland is Afghanistan West. Their main national occupation is robbing and killing. Tour guide on bus:

This is where the MacDhonalds murdhered the Campbells..
And here's where the Campbells murdhered and annihilated the MacDhonalds..

If they become independent, look for the festivities to start again.
The entire narrative of culture and history is about the feuds and backstabbing and mutual massacres.

Austin · Post by **Austin** » 13 Apr 2014 08:09

Frontline has cover story on Ukraine Crises

Interview with Alexander M. Kadakin, Russia’s Ambassador to India. By JOHN CHERIAN
http://www.frontline.in/cover-story/rus ... 853768.ece

‘Russia had no other option’

What was the rationale for Crimea’s accession to Russia?

The most important, of course, was the will of the local people, which was very clearly expressed in the referendum of March 16. The will of the people was the guiding beacon for the Russian authorities. Apart from that, there were forces in Kiev which had accelerated the process in Crimea. The first thing the so-called new government in Kiev did was to pass a decree abolishing Russian as an official language instead of focussing on economic recovery. They rectified it later but it was a bad mistake on their part. It immediately alienated Crimeans and hastened the process [of accession].

But, apart from all that, the Crimean situation is different from similar cases around the world. First and foremost, in 1954, Khrushchev whimsically decided to gift Crimea to Ukraine, where he was once the Communist Party chief. Never before had Crimea been with Ukraine. The Russian empire had fought three major wars with the Turks for Crimea and it was only during the time of Catherine the Great that complete possession of Crimea took place.

In Ukraine now, very radical ultra-nationalist elements have entered the government who, unfortunately, are ruling that “satanic ball”. They are from western Ukraine, which was never originally part of that country. And Crimeans thought that with these forces having the upper hand in government, the lakhs of Russian lives laid down for Crimea would go in vain.

More than one million Russians perished in the three wars. One hundred and fifty thousand Russians are buried in a cemetery in Sevastopol.

And after the collapse of the Soviet Union, there has been complete neglect on the part of Kiev about the needs and requirements of the Crimean people. World-famous resorts there have fallen into ruin. Kiev was more preoccupied with its internal political struggles.

How important is the port of Sevastopol for Russia?

Even before 1954, Sevastopol had a special status as the base of the Russian Black Sea Fleet. It was always subordinate throughout its history to the central government in Moscow.

What about the impact of the sanctions on Russia?

Inconsequential. The world has changed. There is much more interdependency now. Russia has always been and continues to be against any kind of sanctions. We never joined the West-led sanctions against India in 1998, which is somewhat forgotten these days. Against the background of globalisation, any sanctions will boomerang. Europeans are not united on the issue. The German Chancellor has said that they do not want to have an economic war with Russia.

President Obama has described Russia as a mere regional power.

Only God can judge whether Russia is a regional or a superpower, and the American President is not God. What would you call a country that has the capacity to destroy the planet a thousand times?

Russia was suspended from the G8 and there was a call by the Australian Prime Minister to keep Putin out of the G20 summit.

Their discourteous language about Russian membership in the G8 and the G20 was unwarranted. If the G8 has done its job, so be it, but it is not up to any G20 member to either expel or not invite another member state. We are not bound to those formats and do not consider it a badge of honour.

The G8 is just a gentleman’s club with no consequence. The G20 is definitely more important.

Is Russia happy with the response of the BRICS nations and the result of the U.N. vote on Crimea?

The response of the BRICS countries was constructive and well-balanced. We value the position they took. The outcome of the U.N. General Assembly vote was absolutely balanced. The vote has shown that there is a great force emerging now, which rejects the policies of a unipolar world. It reminds me of the golden days of the Non-Aligned Movement.

Is Russia not unhappy with India and China for abstaining from the U.N. vote?

Not at all. President Putin in his Kremlin speech after the incorporation of Crimea emphatically thanked the Indian and Chinese governments for their far-sighted and objective position. He also singled out India for its constructive approach.

Is the continued expansion of NATO a concern?

Unfortunately, double standards and deceit have always been the guiding principles of our partners. They had given assurances to the Soviet Union and Russia that they would not move to our borders. Now Poland, the Czech Republic and the Baltic republics that were part of the USSR are members of NATO. Then what are their promises worth? Not even a paisa.

There was betrayal even in Ukraine.

Yes. What was the value of the agreement the three Foreign Ministers signed in Kiev? One day Yanukovich was very much at the helm and the next day the agreement was discarded like toilet paper by the West.

The West has been using the pretext of a Russian military build-up on the Ukraine border to ratchet up the tensions.

We do have to protect Russia from the instability in the neighbouring countries and even fraternal countries. Look what happened yesterday in Kiev. Those bandits stormed the Parliament building. Putin had clearly stated that he did not want any fragmentation of Ukraine. He said that he wanted a prosperous and stable Ukraine. Chaos in Ukraine is not in Russia’s national interest.

Singha · Post by **Singha** » 13 Apr 2014 08:45

scotland has a very low population partly due to terrain and climate and partly because the faithfool have not moved up beyond northern england. with good fishing and oil/gas rights in the north sea, their huge whisky industry, tourism, and education and engineering centers in the cities, they should be able to retain and perhaps increment current std of living and per capita income. aberdeen in the extreme north is the logistic base for north sea offshore oil cos like shell.
they can also seek a good rent for british naval bases in faslane(even US SSBN/SSN are based there) and orkney islands. they will inherit part of the current military based on population or gdp for sure.

Philip · Post by **Philip** » 13 Apr 2014 09:06

The Scots were independent and were joined to hip with the English when (Wik):

James VI and I (19 June 1566 – 27 March 1625) was King of Scotland as James VI from 24 July 1567 and King of England and Ireland as James I from the union of the Scottish and English crowns on 24 March 1603 until his death. The kingdoms of Scotland and England were individual sovereign states, with their own parliaments, judiciary, and laws, though both were ruled by James in personal union.

He succeeded to the Scottish throne at the age of thirteen months, after his mother Mary, Queen of Scots, was compelled to abdicate in his favour. Four different regents governed during his minority, which ended officially in 1578, though he did not gain full control of his government until 1583. In 1603, he succeeded the last Tudor monarch of England and Ireland, Elizabeth I, who died without issue.[1] He continued to reign in all three kingdoms for 22 years, a period known as the Jacobean era after him, until his death in 1625 at the age of 58. After the Union of the Crowns, he based himself in England (the largest of the three realms) from 1603, only returning to Scotland once in 1617, and styled himself "King of Great Britain and Ireland".[2] He was a major advocate of a single parliament for both England and Scotland. In his reign, the Plantation of Ulster and British colonisation of the Americas began.

At 57 years and 246 days, his reign in Scotland was longer than any of his predecessors. He achieved most of his aims in Scotland but faced great difficulties in England, including the Gunpowder Plot in 1605 and repeated conflicts with the English Parliament. Under James, the "Golden Age" of Elizabethan literature and drama continued, with writers such as William Shakespeare, John Donne, Ben Jonson, and Sir Francis Bacon contributing to a flourishing literary culture.[3] James himself was a talented scholar, the author of works such as Daemonologie (1597), True Law of Free Monarchies (1598), and Basilikon Doron (1599). He sponsored the translation of the Bible that was named after him: the Authorised King James Version.[4] Sir Anthony Weldon claimed that James had been termed "the wisest fool in Christendom", an epithet associated with his character ever since.[5] Since the latter half of the twentieth century, however, historians have revised James's reputation and have treated him as a serious and thoughtful monarch.

Today,whisky,and tourism are its best known attributes.The North Sea oil may have evaporated ,but Scotland has long traditions of being great shipbuilders,planters (in India) and financially very prudent,that is until the RBS went bankrupt a few years ago under the chairmanship of Fred-the-shred,a disgrace so great that he was blackballed for membership of the Royal and St.Andrews ,the home of Golf! It was bad vastu.They built the international HQ of the RBS,which I've visited,on the site of a former lunatic asylum near Edinburgh airport! If they lack fuel,there's plenty "aboot" that could be used,millions of barrels of whisky, begorrah!

In my opinion knowing the Scots well (plus a wee dram inside of moi),Independence will give the creative genius of the Scots full opportunity to flourish.Scotland will rediscover its native creative genius and chart out a new exciting future.There are far smaller nations like those of the Baltic,etc. in Europe which are far less gifted with diverse capabilities and skills as the Scots.Plus as has been pointed out,if the rest of the UK want to retain Trident SSBN capability,then they can only base these subs in Scotland,which if they choose to allow it,can charge a hefty sum in rent. Scotland is also perhaps the most popular destination of Indian doctors who want their FRCS!

UlanBatori · Post by **UlanBatori** » 13 Apr 2014 16:46

they can also seek a good rent for british naval bases in faslane

Not to mention the 'Rood Castle which occupies prime real estate in Edin-brah. My 6th coujin & his Supreme HQ once climbed the hill across the road and were able to use a 300mm zoom to peek into the Queen's Fourth of July celebration (of the turkeys migrating out across the Atlantic).

whisky

That's another parallel with Afghanistan, whose No. 1 product is hashish.
Then again, I think Indian Mohan Meakin Breweries whisky is superior.

Philip · Post by **Philip** » 13 Apr 2014 17:30

Solan No. 1 is too young and unpeated,more like an Irish whiskey. GIven that the bulk goes to the armed froces it is difficult to get and should be aged in casks if MM want to produce a classy dram.Amrut's Fusion has been making waves around the world in recent years,Jim Murray has for some time been praising its virtues,excellent dram,was ated second best a couple of years ago,but the winner this year for best whisky in the world conducted by Whisky mag,is that curiosity,Sullivan's cove from Tasmania!

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/
Pro-Russians step up attacks in east Ukraine

The response came within 24 hours of the Ukrainian Prime Minister’s visit to the east, offering concessions. One group of gunmen seized a police station in Slavyansk; another tried to storm the prosecutor’s office in Donetsk; while a third took control of a police station in Kramatorsk following a firefight.

The latest attacks showed that there was little likelihood of the confrontation between the separatists and the Kiev government ending soon. Demonstrations have been planned across the region over the weekend by both sides, and tensions were further raised by reports of troop movements and right-wing activists arriving from the west of the country.

Last night, a group of 20 men dressed in matching combat fatigues seized the regional police HQ in Kramatorsk, just 90 miles from the Russian border. Witnesses said the well-armed militia took orders from a commander before approaching the building and exchanging gunfire with police.

The raid in the early hours of the morning in Slavyansk, about 40 miles north of Donetsk near the Russian border, was carried out by a small group of men wearing balaclavas, who threw stun grenades and fired shots in the air.

One of their leaders, calling himself Leonid, told The Independent on Sunday: “It was a successful operation. There was no blood spilled. The police were understanding. We are going to stay in there until they meet our demands, which are for a referendum. The people will decide what the terms of the referendum will be.

“I don’t want to go into the details of the operation, but we will be able to defend ourselves if we come under attack. I don’t think that Spetsnatz [special forces] will fire on their brothers and sisters.”

The town, on the route to Kharkiv, had been ringed by checkpoints composed of tyres, sandbags and broken furniture. They were manned by resisters, including some Kalashnikov assault rifles. Ukraine’s interior minister, Arsen Avakov, declared: “Here, our response will be very severe: there is zero tolerance for armed terrorists.”

Mr Avakov claimed that special forces had been sent to the town. “I will say it again: those who want dialogue ... will have dialogue and the search for solutions. Those who are up in arms, set fire to buildings, shoot at people, police, terrorise with bats and masks, these people will face an appropriate response.”

Officials held talks with the armed group, said to be between six to eight men. Police spokesman Ihor Dyomin said: “We are trying to get them to leave. We want to bring this to a conclusion.” A police statement issued from the capital, Kiev, said: “The aim of the takover was the guns. They are giving these guns to participants in the protest.”

Protesters stand ready in Donetsk Protesters stand ready in Donetsk Mr Avakov has taken a hard-line in the crisis and issued an ultimatum to separatists occupying the administrative base in Donetsk to withdraw within 48 hours or face an attack. That deadline passed on Friday without any action from the government. Yesterday, however, the regional police chief, Kostyantyn Pozhydayev, said he was quitting his post after pressure from pro-Russian protesters.

Ukraine’s interim Prime Minister, Arseniy Yatsenyuk, had taken a much more conciliatory note on a visit to Donetsk on Friday with a delegation of ministers, including Mr Avakov, during which he stressed that he wanted to see a peaceful solution.

Eastern crisis: Protesters in Donetsk Eastern crisis: Protesters in Donetsk Speaking to local political leaders, civic society activists and the oligarch Rinat Akhmetov, the richest man in the country who had been a mediator between the two sides, Mr Yatsenyuk said the government was prepared to devolve more power to the regions and guarantee that Russian would continue as the country’s second state language – attempts to change this status by MPs in Kiev had fuelled the unrest in the east.

The mayors of Donetsk, Kharkiv and Lugansk, three cities which had experienced violent clashes, each endorsed a referendum for autonomy during the meeting. There has, however, been no indication that the Pemier’s proposals satisfied them.

The masked men at the at the administrative base in Donetsk dismissed Mr Yatsenyuk’s offer. “He is an imposter who is part of a regime which has taken power in a coup so we don’t recognise him,” said Leonid Churnenko, who said he was a former soldier. “He is not in control of anything; they were so scared that they kept his trip a secret. The people in real control are the fascists, and these are the people we have to deal with.”

Some groups seemed eager to take up the challenge. Roman, an activist who said he was in the Right Sector organisation, claimed he was coming with friends from the capital to “help the security forces” in the east. “It is obvious that these Russian agents are well prepared, but they should be arrested. They are sitting in these government buildings mocking us,” he said. “We want more young Ukrainians to show the spirit of the revolution and secure the territories of our country.”

http://rt.com/news/eastern-ukraine-viol ... yansk-240/
Ukraine's Slavyansk under siege as Kiev orders crackdown on protests

Gunfire has broken out in the city of Slavyansk in eastern Ukraine, where anti-government protesters seized several buildings. The city is under siege after Kiev announced an “anti-terrorist operation” against the protesters.

Follow RT’s live updates on the turmoil in Ukraine

The shooting apparently erupted Sunday morning at a checkpoint, which was established by protesters Saturday evening on the outskirts of the city.

Amid the skirmishes, Ukrainian helicopters were flying overhead.

Local residents also said several transport helicopters landed at an old airfield some 5 kilometers from the town center. Troops wearing black uniforms disembarked and went toward Slavyansk.

In the skirmishes, one of the troops from Kiev was killed and five others were injured, coup-appointed Interior Minister Arsen Avakov reported on his Facebook page, which he regularly uses to report on his ministry’s activities.

The officer killed was a member of the Ukrainian Security Service (SBU), he said, adding that among those injured is the commander of the SBU’s Anti-Terrorist Center.

Avakov said that the protesters had also sustained casualties, but gave no further details. He accused them of using civilians as human shields. Reporters in Slavyansk said that some locals were present at the protester-held buildings and barricades, but said they were volunteers supporting the pro-independence cause.

The Donetsk region health authorities said one person has been killed on a road connecting Slavyansk with Artyomovsk, and another five injured by gunshots in the city of Slavyansk. It was not immediately clear whether these casualties were the ones referred to earlier Sunday by Avakov.

The protesters in Slavyansk said one person was killed and two others injured on their side. They also claimed that two of the Kiev troops were killed.

At least one of the protesters’ checkpoints was taken down and demolished by troops from Kiev. However, the defenders fell back and erected a new barricade at a bridge, RIA Novosti reports.

The defenders of the city set on fire some of the barricades, which were made from tires.

Approaches to the city have been blocked by uniformed troops besieging the city, RIA Novosti reported. Local bus services from the city have been canceled due to the blockade, Itar-Tass reported.

There are rumors that among the troops besieging Slavyansk are members of the radical ultranationalist Right Sector movement. On Saturday, Right Sector leader Dmitry Yarosh announced he was “mobilizing” his movement’s members “to take decisive steps to defend Ukraine’s sovereignty and territorial integrity.”

The eastern city of Slavyansk on April 13, 2014. (Reuters / Maks Levin)

The eastern city of Slavyansk on April 13, 2014. (Reuters / Maks Levin)

Kiev’s troops are still not in control of the town center. The protesters at the Slavyansk police station, which was the first building they captured Saturday, are preparing to fend off a siege, LifeNews reports from the scene. The building has been reinforced with barricades over the past 24 hours. Similar defensive precautions are being taken at other buildings controlled by the protesters.

“The people are rising up, fortifying the barricades,” Slavyansk resident Miroslav Rudenko told RT. “People do not recognize the government currently sitting in Kiev.”

Avakov on Sunday morning has announced an “anti-terrorist operation” in Slavyansk. As the confrontation was under way, the official said that civilians in the city should remain indoors and away from windows.

Avakov already announced “zero-tolerance policy towards armed terrorists” in Slavyansk and the deployment of anti-terrorist troops in the city on Saturday morning. However no action materialized, as security troops reportedly refused to follow an order to attack protesters.

Russia has warned that if Kiev uses force against anti-Maidan protests in eastern Ukraine, this would undermine the effort to convene a four-party conference on resolving the crisis in the country, which would include the US, the EU, Russia and Ukraine. Published time: April 13, 2014[/quote]

*It appears that the Kiev clique is now resorting to unleashing the "Right Sector" neo-Nazis who were used to oust Yanukovych in the Maidan protests to restore control fast dwindling of the eastern territories. The Ukranian armed forces are most reluctant to get involved as they too well know the illegitimacy of the putsch that has brought the Kiev clique into power. They do not want to be later accused of criminal attacks against civilians in the future.We are therefore most probably going to see a violent confrontation by proxies for the Kiev clique-who well know that if the easts ecedes it will be match over for them,and the pro-Russain entities in the east who want to continue with the momentum that the Crimean decision to merge with Russia has been set into motion and is accelerating.

Austin · Post by **Austin** » 13 Apr 2014 19:57

via BBC

Russian Deputy Prime Minister Dmitry Rogozin takes a timely swipe at the West, tell a meeting of students that Russia's future lies in the east, not the west.

Mr Rogozin, was placed under sanctions by the West earlier this year, clearly has no time for diplomacy at the moment: "Cannot go to America, cannot buy a yacht, cannot ride a luxury car. Do they think we are really going to be sad about this? We now have Crimea, we will go there."

"In the east, Russia borders on Japan, China, India is close by, the two Koreas, the entire South East Asia. All the future history of the 21st Century will be there, in the East, surely not in the West confined in the small European Union," says Mr Rogozin.

Austin · Post by **Austin** » 13 Apr 2014 20:13

NATO Chief Opinion on Ukraine Crisis

De-escalation starts on the ground

Article by the NATO Secretary General, Anders Fogh Rasmussen

My first speech as NATO Secretary General in 2009 was called "NATO and Russia: A New Beginning." My aim was to develop a true strategic partnership with Russia, extending practical cooperation in areas where we share security interests, while insisting that Russia should fully comply with its international obligations, including respecting the territorial integrity and political freedom of its neighbours.

Through the years, we made significant progress, working together on areas such as counter-terrorism, counter-piracy and security in Afghanistan. But Russia’s annexation of Crimea ended that new beginning, and undermined the very basis of the partnership we had built with such great efforts.

Today, Russia is speaking and behaving not as a partner, but as an adversary.

While tens of thousands of combat-ready Russian troops stand poised on Ukraine's border, Russia is also waging a propaganda war the like of which we have not seen since the end of the Cold War. Its purpose is to pervert the truth, divert attention from Russia's illegal actions, and subvert the authorities in Ukraine.

In recent weeks, Russian officials have accused NATO of breaking its promises, interfering in Ukraine’s internal affairs, and escalating the crisis. It is time to see these claims for what they are: a smokescreen designed to cover up Russia's own broken promises, interference and escalation.

Broken promises

Russia accuses NATO of breaking a 1990 promise that it would never expand into Central and Eastern Europe. At different times, Russian leaders have attributed the promise to private statements by Germany’s former Chancellor Helmut Kohl and Foreign Minister Hans-Dietrich Genscher, and then-U.S. Secretary of State James Baker.

But in 1990, the only discussion was about the reunification of Germany. NATO enlargement was not on the agenda, as the Warsaw Pact only dissolved a year later. Moreover, any such pledge would have had to lead to a change of NATO's founding treaty made by consensus of all Allies.

The reality is that no such pledge was ever made, and Russia’s leaders have failed to produce a single document to back up this oft-repeated claim. Since it was founded, NATO has embraced sovereign states who made their free choice to join the Alliance. That is the spirit of democracy.

Over the past seventy years, Russia has repeatedly promised to respect the sovereignty, territorial integrity and political independence of all states. It did so, for example, when it signed the United Nations Charter of 1945, the Helsinki Final Act of 1975 and the NATO-Russia Founding Act of 1997.

Russia is now violating Ukraine’s territorial integrity by occupying Crimea, and violating Ukraine’s sovereignty by trying to impose a federal system. Russia has broken its word. It has done damage to its reputation that will take years to heal. Blaming NATO will not make that better; it will make it worse.

Interference

Russian leaders also claim that NATO has interfered in Ukraine’s internal affairs by pushing the country towards membership.

NATO’s track record shows how false that is. When Ukraine expressed the aspiration to join the Alliance ten years ago, we welcomed Ukraine's aspiration. When Ukraine opted for non-bloc status, five years ago, we respected Ukraine's decision. When Prime Minister Yatseniuk recently visited Brussels, he made clear that membership “is not on the radar.” That is Ukraine's sovereign choice - and NATO fully respects it.

Meanwhile, Russia has repeatedly tried to define, even dictate, Ukraine’s course. Top officials have demanded that the constitution be rewritten to create a federal state. They have demanded that Ukraine declare itself neutral, to safeguard Russia’s security.

This contradicts one of the fundamental principles of Euro-Atlantic security: that each state is free to choose its own alliances. The Soviet Union accepted that principle when it signed the Helsinki Accords in 1975; Russia inherited the obligation.

Only Ukraine can decide what is best for Ukraine - in full respect for all the people of Ukraine, whatever language they speak. Other countries may help to facilitate dialogue, but they cannot decide on Ukraine’s behalf.

If Russia is sincere about a dialogue, the first step should be to pull back the tens of thousands of troops it has deployed on Ukraine's border without any justification. Otherwise, any talks would not be a dialogue, but diktat.

Escalation

Russian officials allege that NATO has escalated the crisis by moving military forces to Central and Eastern Europe and publicly condemning Russia’s actions. Foreign Minister Lavrov even wrote that “de-escalation starts with rhetoric.”

The reality is that actions speak louder than words: escalation and de-escalation both start on the ground.

Since the crisis began, Russia has occupied Crimea with thousands of troops and staged a rigged referendum That is clearly escalation. NATO has offered to support the Ukrainian government’s defence reforms and boost the transparency and democratic control of the armed forces. That is clearly not escalation.

Russian forces have seized Ukrainian military bases and warships. That is escalation. NATO has sent civilian experts to advise Ukraine on the security of critical infrastructure. That is not escalation.

Russia has moved some 40,000 troops to Ukraine’s border, backed up by tanks, fighters, artillery and attack helicopters: escalation. NATO has launched AWACS radar aircraft flights over Poland and Romania and sent six extra aircraft to the Baltic States to protect Allied airspace: not escalation.
Dispelling the smokescreen

The Russian propaganda against NATO and the West is nothing but smokescreen to cover up its own illegal actions. Dispel the smokescreen, and the truth on the ground is clear: Russia has annexed Crimea at the barrel of a gun, in breach of all its international commitments..

Russia is now isolated in the world, its international credibility in tatters. This is not in Russia’s interest.

Russia faces a choice: to stop blaming others for its own actions, pull back its troops, step back into line with its international obligations and start rebuilding trust.

Otherwise, Russia will only face deeper international isolation. That is in nobody’s interest, and will make our world only more dangerous and unpredictable.

I call on Russia to de-escalate. There are concrete steps to be taken.

svinayak · Post by **svinayak** » 13 Apr 2014 20:50

http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2 ... -will.html

Putin Can Take Ukraine Without an Invasion, and Probably Will
Andrei Illarionov, a Putin advisor turned critic, has been predicting the twists of the Ukraine crisis. Now he says Putin will be able to achieve his goals without firing a shot.

A former top advisor to Vladimir Putin says the Russian president probably thinks at this point he can whip Ukraine back into line without having to resort to a full-blown invasion. Although it appears no Western power is willing to take military action to defend Kiev, overt Russian military action would risk deeper and more disruptive Western economic sanctions. So Putin’s willingness to play a longer-term game rests on his “cynical recognition” that he has three years to accomplish his objective before there is a change of leadership in the White House and the possibility of a more resolute American response.

“Putin’s objective remains to regain control of Ukraine, but I suspect he now thinks he can do this without ordering in the tanks,” says Andrei Illarionov, a former Putin economic policy advisor and now an unstinting critic of the Russian leader.

Illarionov tells The Daily Beast he expects Putin to maintain an intimidating offensive build-up of Russian forces along the Ukraine border, nonetheless, and that there will be no let-up in the fomenting of separatist agitation in the eastern Ukraine towns of Donetsk, Kharkiv, Lugansk and now Sloviansk. The aim is to destabilize Ukrainian politics, weaken Ukrainian state institutions and help Putin’s political allies reassert their power in Kiev.

Illarionov has predicted accurately various stages in the current Ukraine crisis, including his early warnings that the Kremlin would grab Crimea after the February ouster of Putin ally Viktor Yanukovych as Ukrainian President. Speaking in his office in the Washington D.C.-based think tank the Cato Institute, where he is a senior fellow, Illarionov warns, “Putin will not leave Ukraine alone until he has achieved what he wants – pulling the country back in the Russian orbit. And he will do that one way or the other.”

The threat of Russian military intervention combined with separatist agitation in eastern Ukraine already is bearing results.
The threat of Russian military intervention combined with separatist agitation in eastern Ukraine already is bearing results. Last weekend pro-Russian activists seized government buildings in three towns. The new Ukrainian leaders in Kiev responded with threat, but finally offered greater autonomy and decentralization to the Ukrainian regions in a bid to appease separatist sentiment and quell disturbances.

On Friday, Ukrainian Prime Minister Arseniy Yatsenyuk repeated an offer he made earlier in the week to hand off more powers, saying that Kiev-appointed administrations in the provinces should be a thing of the past and the “power to rule the regions must be transmitted to the locals.”

While what Kiev politicians are offering falls short of federalization, some pro-Ukrainian activists fear any decentralization will push the country down a slippery slope that allows Russia to turn the eastern and southern regions into de facto protectorates of the Kremlin. Russia has been insisting on a federal form of government for post-Yanukovych Ukraine that would see the regions control tax-revenue and even pursuing foreign and economic policies different from the federal government.

TSJones · Post by **TSJones** » 13 Apr 2014 22:45

^^^The above report is incorrect. The Kiev government will fight and is probably doing so in some of the Russian captured cities as I write this message. Putin *will not* take eastern Ukraine with out a fight. There will be bloodshed and protracted guerilla warfare. Will Putin prevail? Yes of course. That is not in doubt. But he won't take it w/o bloodshed.

Addendum:

....and spending a lot of money.

Virupaksha · Post by **Virupaksha** » 13 Apr 2014 23:03

TSJones wrote:^^^The above report is incorrect. The Kiev government will fight and is probably doing so in some of the Russian captured cities as I write this message. Putin *will not* take eastern Ukraine with out a fight. There will be bloodshed and protracted guerilla warfare. Will Putin prevail? Yes of course. That is not in doubt. But he won't take it w/o bloodshed.

Addendum:

....and spending a lot of money.

so the west sponsored kiev clique is about to start a genocide in eastern ukraine.

that is some thing which Yanukovych should have done to protect democracy against this clique, but ofcourse when us sponsored murderous dictators like Turchynov rule the roost and have cnn/nyt in their pockets to spin any propaganda, it is the common people who suffer.

PS: any less than what was spent for creating the maidan terrorism?

Philip · Post by **Philip** » 13 Apr 2014 23:07

Asia to benefit,says Russian billionaire,"sanctioned" by O'Bomber and the Euro-Peons.

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world ... 56665.html

Ukraine crisis: 'Very concerned' US issues warning to Russia against use of military force
Oliver Poole
Sunday 13 April 2014

Ukraine risks its supply of gas being switched off after the country's new government told Moscow it was suspending payments for deliveries, raising the prospect of parts of wider Europe also being deprived of vital Russian supplies.

Yesterday's announcement was the latest escalation in a dispute between the two countries. Vladimir Putin wrote to all 18 European nations warning that Russia could no longer tolerate "further violation" in Kiev's unwillingness to pay for energy.

The stalemate over liquid gas supplies could lead to disruption further west, as around half the natural gas bought by EU states from Russia is pumped through Ukrainian territory. South-eastern states such as Austria and the Czech Republic are particularly dependent.

Andriy Kobolev, chief executive of Ukraine's state-controlled energy company Naftogaz, said the decision had been made as the increase in the price Russia charged for gas since protests forced president Viktor Yanukovych from office was unacceptable. "We have suspended payments for the period of the price negotiations," he said.

The Russian gas giant Gazprom has raised gas prices to Ukraine from £160 to £289 per 1,000 cubic metres, claiming Kiev is no longer eligible for subsidies previously offered in return for the Kremlin's leasing of the naval base at Sevastopol in the now annexed Crimean peninsula. Gazprom also maintains Ukraine owes it at least £1.2bn for previously unpaid gas bills, a sum that the near-bankrupt government in Kiev has no hope of repaying.

Such is Ukraine's dire economic plight that yesterday's cessation of payments was seen by some analysts as merely a de facto recognition of what had already happened after the country failed to pay the latest instalment of over $500m (£298m) it owed Gazprom earlier this month. "We are probably steering towards Russia turning off its gas provision," the Ukrainian energy minister Yuri Prodan was quoted as saying in an interview with the German newspaper Börsen-Zeitung.

European leaders have been working on ways to keep supplies flowing to EU states if supplies are disrupted, including liquefied natural gas from Qatar or shale gas from North America. Plans have also been drawn up to provide relief supplies via interconnectors from Germany.

Moscow said it does not wish to turn off Ukraine's gas if it can be avoided and promised to honour all its commitments to EU customers. However, the US introduced new sanctions on Friday against people it had linked to Russia's Crimea annexation.

Gennady Timchenko, a billionaire oil and gas trader whose assets have been frozen, hailed his inclusion on the sanctions list as a sign he was a Russian patriot.

"The fact I was included was a little surprising, maybe, but it was quite an honour," he told the state-run Rossiya TV station. The result of sanctions, he warned, would be more Russian natural gas would be sold to Asia instead.

Suraj · Post by **Suraj** » 13 Apr 2014 23:36

TSJones wrote:^^^The above report is incorrect. The Kiev government will fight and is probably doing so in some of the Russian captured cities as I write this message. Putin *will not* take eastern Ukraine with out a fight. There will be bloodshed and protracted guerilla warfare. Will Putin prevail? Yes of course. That is not in doubt. But he won't take it w/o bloodshed.

Addendum:

....and spending a lot of money.

Correction: not 'Kiev government' but 'western sponsored, funded and armed Kiev takeover regime'.

Virupaksha · Post by **Virupaksha** » 13 Apr 2014 23:41

the dictator turchinov's whims

Signed into law by Ukraine's acting President Oleksandr Turchynov on April 10, the legislation mandates that all court chairs appointed under ousted President Viktor Yanukovych be fired from their administrative posts and that judges be screened for corruption and participation in so-called "politicized justice" -- such as banning opposition rallies. It could lead to hundreds of judges being kicked off the bench en masse.

http://www.rferl.org/content/former-jou ... 30909.html
http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/mon ... -adopt-it/

yes, yes - that is democracy according to us- is it not welch and jones?

A simple question: Should democracy and freedom loving ukranians abide by these kangaroo courts designer orders?

The Svoboda bill stipulates that public servants at all levels, as well as applicants for state jobs will have to undergo a screening procedure. Those who fail the screening will be dismissed from their positions.

basically make the eastern and southern ukranians second class citizens.

Ukraine’s laws, instead, will target people for overt support for the Yanukovich regime.
...
the Ukrainian law, uniquely, does link lustration to prosecution.

Have you voted for Yanukovich, you can be arrested and transported to dictators Guantenamo.

make the majority of ukranians who supported Yanukovich the new slaves.

lustration proponents would do well to take notice that the front-runner in the upcoming presidential election, Petro Poroshenko, an early supporter of Euromaidan, is also a co-founder of the Party of Regions and a former minister in Yanukovych’s cabinet.

lets see if it is rule of scum's whim or a case of rule of scum?

member_23370 · Post by **member_23370** » 13 Apr 2014 23:42

I doubt US and the neo-nazis in kiev can do anything to stop south and eastern ukraine from breaking away now. Any stupidity on the part of the neo nazis will simply get them wiped out. EU can do jack shit about this and they are very aware of it. I just hope russia doesn't try make US pay for it in afghanistan. Though a few arab monarchy's could be taken down a peg or two.

Virupaksha · Post by **Virupaksha** » 13 Apr 2014 23:50

Bheeshma wrote:I doubt US and the neo-nazis in kiev can do anything to stop south and eastern ukraine from breaking away now. Any stupidity on the part of the neo nazis will simply get them wiped out. EU can do jack shit about this and they are very aware of it. I just hope russia doesn't try make US pay for it in afghanistan. Though a few arab monarchy's could be taken down a peg or two.

as long as they have cnn/nyt in their pocket and the brainwashed american sheeps are ready to accept all the propaganda they dish out - I wouldnt bet on it.

On the contrary, remember the role of the EU and NATO with poland as the official mascots during the maidan terrorism days. This neo-nazi coup was orchestred in Brussels and DC with warsaw as the main halt.

4500 of those sheep were killed searching for the nyt/cnn inspired WMD and more of them were being prepared for syria for the "chemical attack" until russia blew the cover.

This coup is in part a revenge for the foiled "chemical attack". They are trying to tie up russia in ukraine.

Philip · Post by **Philip** » 14 Apr 2014 00:01

The Middle Game in full swing. But look who's talking? Ha!Ha!
Wind-breaking news:Ukranian Kiev clique say that thye're ready to launch a full scale "anti-terrorist" operation!
"Charge of the Light Brigands" what?

UN ambassador: Ukraine unrest has 'tell-tale signs of Moscow's involvement'

• Samantha Power: protests are 'professional, co-ordinated'
• Russian foreign ministry: west must 'avoid civil war in Ukraine'

UN ambassador: Ukraine unrest has 'tell-tale signs of Moscow's involvement'

• Samantha Power: protests are 'professional, co-ordinated'
• Russian foreign ministry: west must 'avoid civil war in Ukraine'
Paul Lewis in Washington
theguardian.com, Sunday 13 April 2014 19.45 BST

Armed pro-Russian activists occupy the police station carrying riot shields in Slovyansk. ukraine Activists at a seized police station with a banner reading 'Donetsk Republic' in Slovyansk. Photograph: Andrew Chernavsky/AP

Ukrainian forces engaged in a deadly gun battle with unknown armed men in the country’s eastern region on Sunday, prompting a senior US diplomat to accuse Moscow of staging another Crimea-style intervention.

Later in the day, the Russian foreign ministry issued a statement on Facebook which said: “It now particularly depends on the west to avoid a civil war in Ukraine.”

Samantha Power, the United States' ambassador to the United Nations, said the unrest in eastern Ukraine was following the same pattern of events as in Crimea, where unidentified forces took over government installations before the peninsula was effectively annexed by Russia last month.

“It’s professional, it’s co-ordinated, there is nothing grass-roots-seeming about it,” Power said. “The forces are doing, in each of the six or seven cities they’ve been active in, exactly the same thing. Certainly it bears the tell-tale signs of Moscow’s involvement.”

Asked if Russian president Vladimir Putin “wants eastern Ukraine”, Power told ABC’s This Week: “I think the actions that he is undertaking certainly give credence to that idea.

“I will say that in the conversations that we’re having, they [the Russian government] keep insisting ‘No, that’s not what we want.' But everything they’re doing suggests the opposite.”

Washington and Moscow have maintained regular dialogue throughout the crisis and on Saturday John Kerry, the US secretary of state, spoke by telephone to Russia's foreign minister, Sergei Lavrov.

A senior State Department official said Kerry expressed strong concern that attacks by “armed militants” in eastern Ukraine had been “orchestrated and synchronised”, echoing the unrest in Crimea.

“Militants were equipped with specialised Russian weapons and the same uniforms as those worn by the Russian forces that invaded Crimea,” the official said. “The secretary made clear that if Russia did not take steps to de-escalate in eastern Ukraine and move its troops back from Ukraine’s border, there would be additional consequences.”

Sunday's Russian foreign ministry statement said “western sponsors” of the interim government in Kiev, “and also the US behind them”, “must keep their wards under control”.

The UN secretary general, Ban Ki moon, called for urgent dialogue, saying he was “deeply concerned about the deteriorating situation in eastern Ukraine and the growing potential for violent clashes”.

In the first exchange of gunfire in eastern Ukraine since armed protesters began seizing control of government buildings, at least one security officer was killed and five others wounded in Slovyansk, around 100 miles from the Russian border.

The gun battle occurred after the Kiev government announced what it called an "anti-terrorist operation" to turf out pro-Russian forces who, a day earlier, took over a police station and a security office in the city. Government buildings in several other towns in the Donetsk and Luhansk regions were attacked over the weekend, with armed men bedding in behind barricades.

Analysts fear that a descent into violence will provide Putin with cover for a more intervention in Ukraine, possibly involving a military incursion by some of the 40,000 troops Nato estimates have amassed across the border.

In Crimea, Russian forces from a naval base on the peninsula were used to cement Moscow's control after armed groups and unidentified militia took over key sites, including airports.

Details of the fatal exchange of bullets in Slovyansk were sketchy. On Sunday, several journalists reported that armed and camouflaged men were guarding checkpoints on the outskirts of the city. Interim Ukrainian President Oleksandr Turchynov has guaranteed amnesty to separatists who surrender, and announced a "full-scale, anti-terror operation".

An Associated Press reporter found a bullet-ridden SUV on the side of the road where the gun battle was supposed to have taken place. There was a pool of blood on the passenger seat. Vladimir Kolodchenko, a lawmaker from the area who witnessed the attack, told the news agency a car containing four gunmen pulled up on the road in a wooded area outside Slovyansk and opened fire on Ukrainian soldiers who were standing beside their vehicles.
A pro-Russian gunman stands guard at a seized police station in the eastern Ukraine town of Slovyansk. A gunman stands guard at a seized police station in Slovyansk. Photograph: Efrem Lukatsky/AP

There were outbursts of violence elsewhere in eastern Ukraine. In Kramatorsk, there were reports of gunfire as men in unidentified uniforms seized the police station. Video footage showed around 20 men in military fatigues shooting from automatic rifles as they approached the building. Reuters cited an eyewitness who described a shootout with police.

Sanctions imposed on Russia by the US and western allies have so far been restricted to visa bans and asset freezes targeting senior officials in Moscow. However, Washington has repeatedly warned that such measures could be expanded against Russia’s banking, energy and mining sectors.

Any such sanctions would also however prove damaging to Europe’s economy and increase the prospects of a “gas war” in which Moscow could disrupt energy supplies across the continent.

This week could see the first four-way talks between Russia, Ukraine, the EU and US since the crisis in Ukraine began. The proposed talks have been touted by Moscow as evidence of its willingness to engage in dialogue over Ukraine.

But with unrest appearing to reach a crescendo, it is unclear whether the meeting will take place. On Friday, two days after the potential talks were announced, the State Department said no meeting had been finalised.

The White House did announce over the weekend that the vice-president, Joe Biden, will travel to Kiev later this month in a show of solidarity with the country’s new government, which is planning presidential elections in May.

Biden will be the most senior US official to travel to Ukraine since violent protests led to the ouster of its pro-Russian president, Victor Yanukovych.

If the Kiev clique do launch their anti-terror ops,then retribution will be swift and deadly if any pro-Russian people of the east are affected. An attempt by the Maidan neo-Nazis to regain control over Slavyansk failed miserably. The pro-Russian forces are in full control,"one way in,one way out". Events are drawing to their inevitable conclusion,civil strife which will invite Russia to intervene in greater measure resulting in the dismemberment of the Ukraine with the Kiev chickens retreating in style ,yanqui fashion,looking for safe coops to roost in the EU!

anmol · Post by **anmol** » 14 Apr 2014 08:20

Germans not keen to ruffle Russian feathers
by Stephen Evans, bbc.com
April 12th 2014

European leaders have debated how to punish Russian for its actions in Crimea. But for many Germans, the key is not to ruffle Russian feathers.

On the wall of the office of the left-wing MP, Jan van Aken, is a very big, framed black-and-white picture.

It is the classic image of a Red Army soldier balancing precariously on the turret of the old Reichstag building and raising the hammer and sickle banner, the smouldering ruins of Berlin in the background.

I asked him why he had it on his wall in the German parliament and he replied with a laugh that it was taken on his birthday, 1 May, and then he added more seriously that it tells a story.

The Russians were liberators, he said. They rescued Berlin and Germany from the Nazis.

He doesn't diminish the contribution of others like the British, but he makes much of the Red Army's role.

It is a tale of propaganda.

He said it was taken on 1 May but the actual event - the raising of the red banner on the Reichstag - happened on 30 April, the same day Hitler committed suicide in his bunker about half a mile away.

The picture had to be re-staged because the soldier raising the flag had an arm full of wrist-watches looted from the terrified population.

In the days before Photoshop, the soldiers had to climb back up with the flag, their arms now clean of the spoils of war.

The population in East Germany was liberated only to be then subjugated for more than a half a century.

But the picture shows why many Germans today are ambivalent about what's happening in Ukraine.

Van Aken is an MP for Die Linke, the party descended from the old communist party in East Germany.

He says many of his fellow party members remain grateful to the Soviet Union.

In the west of the country, anti-communism was rife but in the east of the country, Russia was not only the oppressor but also the liberator.

The signs of that liberation are there for all to see, even in the Bundestag building itself where graffiti scrawled by Russian soldiers, in the Cyrillic script has not been scrubbed away.

It is there for MPs to see as they enter the chamber, the names of soldiers with dates in May, 1945.

The soldiers who raised the flag came down and did what soldiers do - they wrote their names on the walls they'd breached. One of the soldiers who raised the flag was Ukrainian, from Kiev.

Young East Germans, like Angela Merkel, learnt Russian.

We will never know if she accidentally bumped into KGB agent Putin, who was stationed in Dresden, but she's certainly bumping into him now.

Berlin feels a lot nearer Moscow than does London or Washington. Of course, it is nearer, but it is also emotionally closer.

Politicians - like the former chancellor Helmut Schmidt, now in his mid-90s and still, by the way, smoking furiously even in television studios - are unequivocal in their commitment to democracy.

But Mr Schmidt is also of the "go easy on Russia" school. Sanctions, he said, were "nonsense".

Germany has to do business with Russia, is the common sentiment, so let's remember that.

The same sentiment comes from another former Chancellor, Gerhard Schroeder, though in his case he really does do business with Russia as the chairman of the board of Nordstream, owned by Gazprom, the Russian energy company currently in dispute with Ukraine.

Apart from Chancellor Merkel's predecessors, a string of very powerful German businessmen are lining up to say how important Russia is, from the boss of Siemens, often pictured with President Putin, to the chief executives of Adidas and of the steel giant Thyssen Krupp.

A short distance from the Bundestag there is a grand Soviet memorial to those killed liberating Berlin. It is in need of some loving attention. Some of the letters on the inscription have fallen off - the "V" in soviet has gone, for example.

On top of the columns is a huge statue of a Red Army soldier, gazing down at anyone bold enough to look up at him.

I say "gazing", but actually he's staring. He may be inert and bronze, but I have to say I find it hard to look him straight in his fierce eyes.

He seems to be saying: "We rescued you. Don't forget where power lies."

anmol · Post by **anmol** » 14 Apr 2014 08:23

Harold James warns that EU and US financial warfare against Russia could lead to the real thing.
project-syndicate.org | Apr 14th 2014

Joseph S. Nye asks whether Russia's short-term gains in Ukraine will be worth the long-term loss of soft power.
project-syndicate.org | Apr 13th 2014

Virupaksha · Post by **Virupaksha** » 14 Apr 2014 08:54

yes, the propagandu by a former defense minister of US is what should be read and should be how russia's foreign policy is to judged.

So according to this logic, Kerry's position should be subordinated to Putin instead of Obama.

svenkat · Post by **svenkat** » 14 Apr 2014 09:03

Germany is not western Europe.Its central europe with a western orientation.The Anglo-Saxon upstarts in england and their then US minions cut down the greatest land power of Europe(Germany lies at the heart of european civilisation) in the first half of 20th century.

Germanys influence was curbed by anglo-saxon upstarts of england.Its in Germanys interests that American poodles like England and Poland are cut down to size.Germany is fine with russias sphere of influence.germany is fine with the anglo-saxon upstarts of england provided they know their place in the new order.