Narendra Modi vs the Dynasty: Contrasting Ideas of India

vipins · Post by **vipins** » 15 Apr 2014 00:27

Mods: Please remove if not the right place to post

Guru log , need help in modifying my cousin .She is an AAPI but not an AAPTARD yet.I got her into talk on the issue of reservation and showed her namo's clip of 'era of plenty' and YY's more reservation link.What else can help?

SwamyG · Post by **SwamyG** » 15 Apr 2014 00:29

LokeshC: Can you weave "Age of Enlightenment" into the discussion?

Suraj · Post by **Suraj** » 15 Apr 2014 01:03

The problem with NREGA was the thesis by Jean Dreze et al that there was supply but not adequate demand as defined by money in the hands of people. It wasn't after several years of failure that the writing was on the wall - there wasn't enough supply! NREGA increased demand in nominal and real terms without increasing supply, or worse, reducing supply, with the predictable result being inflation.

Further, it destabilized the wage equilibrium. People stopped doing what they used to do because they could just join the NREGA dole line for at least near equal wage, if not better than what they made. However, in doing so, they produced less or, or stopped producing, the goods and services they used to. Why bother being a plumber, barber or other self-employed person having to make an honest wage if you can just sign up for NREGA, pretend to do some work (not well audited) and get a guaranteed wage ?

Shockingly enough, it wasn't until several years later that someone in NAC even suggested 'oh it would be good to channel NREGA into asset creation and not just as a way to put money in hands and stimulate demand'. Of course, that still doesn't address auditing of work done . Note that I'm entirely ignoring the political vote-buying aspect of handing out money, because I wanted to focus on deconstructing the faulty economic argument here.

SaiK · Post by **SaiK** » 15 Apr 2014 01:04

vipins, get what matters for her more.. the area of help can be wide!

focus on what is her priorities, and then see where the modi-fications lies.

2c

rajsunder · Post by **rajsunder** » 15 Apr 2014 01:09

no doubt that the con party is going to loose 2014 elections. To project bianca in 2019, I believe that con party will do what ever they can do to gain votes, including halaling raabert.

RamaY · Post by **RamaY** » 15 Apr 2014 01:11

There are bunch of articles on why NaMo as PMOI is bad for Canada, Britian etc., it will be nice to save these articles in more permanent threads... May be in foreign policy.

RamaY · Post by **RamaY** » 15 Apr 2014 01:12

An article on (buffalo) Beef exports... The "Creation is for Human consumption/exploitation" idea is creeping deep into Indian thought process.

http://www.business-standard.com/articl ... 137_1.html

SaiK · Post by **SaiK** » 15 Apr 2014 01:12

RamaY, was it you or someone who said.. we will bring "it" out when the right time comes.

Are you there or not?

ShyamSP · Post by **ShyamSP** » 15 Apr 2014 01:13

KLNMurthy wrote:I only saw a part of it but it looks like OMG is a lazy knock-off of a '70s or '80s Hollywood movie series "Oh God" starring George Burns. Also remade more recently with Morgan Freeman in lead.

I would say it represents more the dumbass unimaginative nature of Bollywood DIE than anything else,

It is copy of some Australian movie which I saw. Bollywood generally sucks in original content.

ramana · Post by **ramana** » 15 Apr 2014 01:13

LokeshC wrote:Folks,

Interesting debate on twitter that I happened to witness.

The WaPo or NYT lady who wrote the Anti Modi article got called "House N****o" by someone and she retorted: Well what about Muslims supporting Modi, aren't they of the same kind?

It is a good retort. However House Slaves usually align to the existing power structure and not the opposing party who has no real power at the moment, other than that I just had to wonder what a good come back to that would be.

Not really they are patriots.

Send her tweet to me and will respond or else you can say the above.

Suraj · Post by **Suraj** » 15 Apr 2014 01:18

No, the right strategy is to keep hammering at her calling her the house ne**o , because she already accepted the term. Let her lash back mocking the very demographic - the Indian muslims - whom she pretends to care for. That is collateral damage for her.

RamaY · Post by **RamaY** » 15 Apr 2014 01:21

SaiK wrote:RamaY, was it you or someone who said.. we will bring "it" out when the right time comes.

Are you there or not?

What & where sir?

muraliravi · Post by **muraliravi** » 15 Apr 2014 01:23

Am I the only one who thinks that with all this Modi-Jashodaben controversy, BJP will lose a significant chunk of votes in the upcoming phases.

Suraj · Post by **Suraj** » 15 Apr 2014 01:26

muraliravi wrote:Am I the only one who thinks that with all this Modi-Jashodaben controversy, BJP will lose a significant chunk of votes in the upcoming phases.

What is the controversy here, and how is it germane to Modi's chances ? Historically, personal emotive issues of the leader have not affected national elections, except in 1984.

RamaY · Post by **RamaY** » 15 Apr 2014 01:27

I don't think so.
Hindus know the story & accept a true Brahmachari. Others don't care.

vivek.rao · Post by **vivek.rao** » 15 Apr 2014 01:27

I spoke to several women. My main concern is about women. Most of them understood and are angry at COngress to rake up such issue

SagarAg · Post by **SagarAg** » 15 Apr 2014 01:29

vipins wrote:Mods: Please remove if not the right place to post

Guru log , need help in modifying my cousin .She is an AAPI but not an AAPTARD yet.I got her into talk on the issue of reservation and showed her namo's clip of 'era of plenty' and YY's more reservation link.What else can help?

NN advocates reservation in private sector. AAP already took support of CONgress in Delhi and will not mind taking/giving it again. Does she want this? Is this the future she wants. Did she heard any AAPtard objecting to it?

My 2C if your line of argument is reservation.

muraliravi · Post by **muraliravi** » 15 Apr 2014 01:35

Suraj wrote:
muraliravi wrote:Am I the only one who thinks that with all this Modi-Jashodaben controversy, BJP will lose a significant chunk of votes in the upcoming phases.
What is the controversy here, and how is it germane to Modi's chances ? Historically, personal emotive issues of the leader have not affected national elections, except in 1984.

Well, there is no controversy in theory. But the problem is with the way media spins it (and yes they can influence people and punch above their weight, if not AAP would have been a zero). But even with media spin the issue should not cause any damage to any party other than the BJP. BJP is unique because its voters go by the gold theory, BJP needs to be gold, I will vote for congress even if it worse than bronze.

IMHO, Modi made a big mistake. He should put his wife's name in the EC affidavit before the 2012 assembly polls itself. It would have been media bytes for a while, but the matter would have settled down. This is a bad time for this controversy.

fanne · Post by **fanne** » 15 Apr 2014 01:43

In here, there is no Gold analogy. If NM would have been caught taking bribe or having affair with another women while leaving away from his wife (even just affair have little impact) then ya, it will hurt. Women mind works differently, after all another women goes after a married man. They are more concerned about women safety (which NM has assured many times, contrasting with Mulayam saying or cong behaving in Delhi and elsewhere, its minister probably murdering their wives), so this is a non issue. It is for Harvard educated, english speaking elite that frequent the TV studios.

disha · Post by **disha** » 15 Apr 2014 01:44

^^Muraliji, Media will spin everything. If somebody decides to not vote for Modi because of a personal event that occurred 46 years back then that person is simply an idiot. You need to move on and leave the idiots behind. They were never committed to vote in NaMo in first place and they will not vote even if their very life depends upon it.

BTW, on twitter Anna Veticad tweeted "How do we know if Modi has not consummated his marriage"., to that I tweeted - "How do we know that Mary is virgin? Faith? Trust?". She also received several beating from others on her tweet and I think she has deleted her tweet. Point is, I respect your faith and trust., till you respect mine.

The point is that instead of dhoti-shivering., do go back and attack their own assumptions - ask them to examine their own morality. They have no right to throw morals on somebody's personal life - start moralizing on their own personal life. Sometimes attack is the best form of defense.

Bade · Post by **Bade** » 15 Apr 2014 01:52

India is not usa, so this personal issue will hardly make a dent one way or another for an election.

I am a bit mystified why he decided to declare it now, he could have left it as he did in all previous state elections to remain consistent. This change of stance is more of an issue than whether he abandoned her or acknowledged her as his wife.

Suraj · Post by **Suraj** » 15 Apr 2014 01:52

muraliravi: Everyone in the fray in most elections have had some personal baggage. It was known that IG was having dessert on the side. RG marrying an uneducated Italian waitress can have turned off a few. ABV was unmarried. RahulG is seen as an unmarried player by some. What I'm saying is, there's no history of this being an issue before, and so far, despite the artificial 'controversy', there isn't one here.

If someone feels like not voting for him because of it, then good riddance - they have their pick of many thieves, philanders or thugs to vote for instead. Even the INC has quickly realized that the matter has very little traction because they would need to answer about RahulG, Mr.Pinkpants, and several others.

The controversy is a sign of opposition desperation. No need to give it further weight. Interestingly, there's been articles with nearly identical titles from a range of sources, i.e. 'Modi's wife or lack of one is none of our business'. Voters may be dumb enough to sell their votes for some money and a bottle, but paradoxically they're also smart enough not to be generally swayed by abstract personal life matters of the candidate.

Here's an election where people are willing to overlook the weakness of their immediate candidate to get Modi to PMship, and we are worrying about the effect of his wife ? Everyone already knew he had a wife he was compelled to marry while underaged, and whom he left because he felt unprepared for it.

Bade: he declared it now because it was a mandatory entry in the form as opposed to an optional one.

muraliravi · Post by **muraliravi** » 15 Apr 2014 01:58

I agree with all you guys, but it is no mean coincidence that (http://www.dailymail.co.uk/indiahome/in ... anity.html)

The two momentous judgments of the Supreme Court, first the verdict of July 5, 2013 directing the Election Commission of India to frame guidelines for regulating the contents of election manifesto particularly freebies and second the verdict of September 13, 2013 which upheld that if a candidate fails to fill the blanks in the affidavit towards furnishing required information along with the nomination paper even after the reminder by the Returning Officer, such a nomination paper is fit to be rejected.

http://indiankanoon.org/doc/77678068/

September 13, 2013 happens to be the exact same day when BJP declared Namo the PM nominee.

IndraD · Post by **IndraD** » 15 Apr 2014 01:59

excerpts from Baru's book, it confirms what was being said over here, shockingly Sonia interfered in last rites of Chandrashekhar and PVNRao

नई दिल्ली [जागरण न्यूज नेटवर्क]। प्रधानमंत्री मनमोहन सिंह के पूर्व मीडिया सलाहकार संजय बारू की किताब 'द एक्सीडेंटल प्राइम मिनिस्टर-मेकिंग एंड अनमेकिंग ऑफ मनमोहन सिंह' के हर पन्ने में कुछ ऐसे तथ्य हैं, जो बताते हैं कि कांग्रेस में पार्टी अध्यक्ष की इच्छा हर महत्वपूर्ण फैसले पर हावी रहती है। बारू लिखते हैं कि सोनिया गांधी की इच्छा के चलते ही पूर्व पीएम नरसिम्हा राव का अंतिम संस्कार दिल्ली में नहीं हो पाया था। कांग्रेस ने पूरी कोशिश की थी कि पूर्व पीएम चंद्रशेखर का अंतिम संस्कार भी दिल्ली में न हो पाए। चंद्रशेखर के परिजनों को दिल्ली में उनका अंतिम संस्कार करने के लिए काफी मशक्कत करनी पड़ी थी।
बारू लिखते हैं कि वर्ष 2007 में कांग्रेस नेतृत्व की तानाशाही उस समय सामने आई, जब पूर्व प्रधानमंत्री चंद्रशेखर की मृत्यु हुई। कांग्रेस ने पूरी कोशिश की थी कि चंद्रशेखर का अंतिम संस्कार हरियाणा के भोंडसी के उनके फार्म में किया जाए। इस पर चंद्रशेखर के परिजन अड़ गए और उनके बेटे ने चेतावनी दी कि अगर पूर्व प्रधानमंत्री का अंतिम संस्कार राजकीय सम्मान के साथ नहीं किया गया तो वह दिल्ली के लोदी श्मशान घाट में उनकी अंत्येष्टि कर देंगे। काफी मशक्कत के बाद चंद्रशेखर का अंतिम संस्कार यमुना नदी के तट पर 'एकता स्थल' में किया गया। मनमोहन के पूर्व मीडिया सलाहकार लिखते हैं, 'सोनिया गांधी के राजनीतिक सलाहकार अहमद पटेल से मेरा कम ही वास्ता पड़ता था। जब भी हम बात करते थे, दोनों की ओर से काफी गर्मजोशी रहती थी और अमूमन दोस्ताना बातें ही होती थीं। प्रधानमंत्री कार्यालय में रहते हुए मेरी दो ही बार खास मुद्दों पर उनसे बात हुई थी। पहली बातचीत पूर्व प्रधानमंत्री नरसिम्हा राव की मृत्यु के तुरंत बाद हुई थी।' बारू लिखते हैं कि नरसिम्हा राव की मृत्यु के बाद वह और प्रधानमंत्री मनमोहन सिंह दिल्ली के मोतीलाल नेहरू मार्ग स्थित पूर्व पीएम के आवास पहुंचे थे। जब मनमोहन सिंह अंदर चले गए, तो पटेल ने बारू को एक तरफ खींचा और कहने लगे, 'राव के बच्चे चाहते हैं कि अन्य कांग्रेसी प्रधानमंत्रियों की ही तरह उनके पिता का अंतिम संस्कार भी दिल्ली में ही हो।' राष्ट्रीय राजधानी में यमुना नदी के किनारे महात्मा गांधी की समाधि के नजदीक पूर्व पीएम पंडित जवाहर लाल नेहरू, इंदिरा गांधी और राजीव गांधी का अंतिम संस्कार किया गया था। अंत्येष्टि की जगहों पर उनके स्मारक भी बनवाए गए हैं। यहां तक कि कांग्रेस से किसी तरह का नाता नहीं रखने वाले पूर्व पीएम चरण सिंह और महज सांसद रहे संजय गांधी का अंतिम संस्कार भी दिल्ली में ही किया गया था और उनके भी स्मारक बनवाए गए हैं।
बारू लिखते हैं, 'अहमद पटेल चाहते थे कि मैं राव के बच्चों रंगा व प्रभाकर और बेटी वाणी को अपने पिता का पार्थिव शरीर अंतिम संस्कार के लिए हैदराबाद ले जाने के लिए मनाऊं। मुझे स्पष्ट समझ आ रहा था कि सोनिया राव का कोई भी स्मारक दिल्ली में कहीं भी नहीं बनने देना चाहती हैं। पटेल के आग्रह पर मैंने कुछ देर विचार किया और महसूस किया कि राव के परिजनों को यह संदेश देना मेरे लिए ठीक नहीं रहेगा। मैंने सोचा कि मैं क्यों इस मसले में पडूं? मैं पटेल के संदेश का एक भी शब्द राव के परिजनों को बताए बिना लौट आया। शाम को मुझे पता चला कि कांग्रेस पार्टी ने राव के परिजनों को हैदराबाद में अंतिम संस्कार के लिए रजामंद कर लिया। कांग्रेस ने एयरपोर्ट ले जाते समय उनके पार्थिव शरीर को पार्टी मुख्यालय लाने की अनुमति तक नहीं दी। यहां तक कि सोनिया गांधी राव के अंतिम संस्कार में शामिल होने के लिए हैदराबाद भी नहीं गई।'

Bade · Post by **Bade** » 15 Apr 2014 02:00

Suraj, If live in relationships are legal in India (at least from many accounts) what does the form ask for other than 'married', 'single', 'Live in' ? No options at all like 'separated' too. From all accounts they were separated.

Suraj · Post by **Suraj** » 15 Apr 2014 02:06

Bade: I have no idea what the allowable choices are, or whether you can just write something explanatory. The point is that you MUST fill it in with something. You can't leave it blank anymore - which is what Modi had done until now.

The mandatory nature of the entry was stipulated in order to catch those who transferred assets into their wife's names to evade legal proceedings or EC requirements on reporting assets and income. For Modi, it served nothing more than the purpose of a FYI.

ramana · Post by **ramana** » 15 Apr 2014 02:09

Bade dont argue for argument sake. Why come upwith formulation which are not there.

A few pages ago I said if NaMo had left it blank then his papers would have been rejected. Now Muraliravi has shown that EC had such powers. I think they are for him only!
So the mafia is now flummoxed.

MR can you tweet the link please.

Bade · Post by **Bade** » 15 Apr 2014 02:10

Ok, I see it now.

Ramana, there are lot of politicians who are 'single'.

Mort Walker · Post by **Mort Walker** » 15 Apr 2014 02:10

Contrary to everyone else, I think personal life is important to the public. Why? The PM is in charge of the nuclear command structure and he/her with their immediate national security cabinet have the authority to launch. A flawed personal character can have disastrous consequences. A drunkard or womanizer or gambler can lead a billion+ people to ruin.

BijuShet · Post by **BijuShet** » 15 Apr 2014 02:20

Bade wrote:Suraj, If live in relationships are legal in India (at least from many accounts) what does the form ask for other than 'married', 'single', 'Live in' ? No options at all like 'separated' too. From all accounts they were separated.

Badesaar they were married at a young age in a Gauna marriage.

From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia Gauna

...
Gauna is a northern Indian custom and the ceremony associated with the consummation of marriage. It is associated with the custom of child marriage[1] The ceremony takes place several years after marriage. Before the ceremony the bride stays at her natal home.[4]Marriage is considered only as a ritual union and conjugal life begins only after gauna; that is marriage is consummated only after the gauna ceremony.
...

Modiji was never interested in the marriage so there was never a meeting of the minds or consummation of the marriage. When she was brought home, Modi, left his home and travelled to Himalayas to become a Yogi. Before leaving home he convinced Jashodaben to complete her education and find a purpose to her life. Not sure, but I believe he asked for her to remarry.

She on the other hand continued to maintain her status as his wife and to this day observes all the traditions of a normal Hindu wife. She is truly a dhanyamata whose sacrifices are no less than Modiji's. She lived a simple life of a school teacher and post retirement, finds solace in dharmic activities. There is not question of separation or estrangement as she continues to be married to Modiji in her heart and he continues to be a Yogi in his spirit. Their vairagya is the reason India is expecting so much from the most dynamic leader in the last 100 years. Our responsibility is to never forget this tapasya and make sure we always do naman to them.

Many of these concepts are alien to those who are DIE hence their unease with such yogic leaders. It truly scares the elite that a Bharatiya will ascend the PM chair. These courtiers of the last 60 years do not know what will be their place in Hastinapur now that Drithrashtra's term comes to an end.

Mort Walker · Post by **Mort Walker** » 15 Apr 2014 02:23

^^^Well said sir. Well said.

BijuShet · Post by **BijuShet** » 15 Apr 2014 02:25

Mort Walker wrote:Contrary to everyone else, I think personal life is important to the public. Why? The PM is in charge of the nuclear command structure and he/her with their immediate national security cabinet have the authority to launch. A flawed personal character can have disastrous consequences. A drunkard or womanizer or gambler can lead a billion+ people to ruin.

For the bolded part: I believe India's security and finances both suffered heavily under one such DIE leader who did not have the courage to face the electorate this time after barely scraping through last time.
This man was all of the above as per Capital chaiwallas.

RajeshA · Post by **RajeshA** » 15 Apr 2014 02:33

Well Sri Rama's marriage was an issue of public interest! Why?

It is because Dharmics want to be assured that the person whom they are giving the Simhasana, whom they are giving their heart-felt support is one worthy of that respect and devotion. Dharmics are looking for leaders, not just political managers, but civilizational leaders.

That is why the Gold Standard comes into play!

But the Gold Standard is to test the character of the person, not necessarily his deeds. If the leader has to be corrupt for the party, for his army, all that is fine. But if the leader is corrupt for himself or for his kin, then his character takes a bashing.

NaMo understands that well. He would have no qualms about a Bangaru Laxman, who took money for the party. But he would have a problem with someone who takes money for himself or for his kin.

NaMo himself has stated that he has nobody, neither behind him nor in front him, no family, for whom he needs to be corrupt. He himself has no desires to accumulate money!

So people love him! He more than meets the Gold Standard!

RamaY · Post by **RamaY** » 15 Apr 2014 02:37

Delete..

Biju sar did a better job

Gus · Post by **Gus** » 15 Apr 2014 02:38

BijuShet wrote: Many of these concepts are alien to those who are DIE hence their unease with such yogic leaders.

there are those who don't even understand these concepts

then there are those who understand and get frightened that there are still people like that and that one such person is going to become PM...

Mahendra · Post by **Mahendra** » 15 Apr 2014 02:40

Exactly, peeps come up with all sort of BS to hide their unease with a true son of the soil becoming the PM. IOW these same peeps would not have an issue 'cattle class' sirji with multiple wives dying under mysterious circumstances becoming the PM.

Anyway, kashaayAM is kadva onlee, drink for good health

member_22733 · Post by **member_22733** » 15 Apr 2014 02:41

ramana wrote:
LokeshC wrote:Folks,

Interesting debate on twitter that I happened to witness.

The WaPo or NYT lady who wrote the Anti Modi article got called "House N****o" by someone and she retorted: Well what about Muslims supporting Modi, aren't they of the same kind?

It is a good retort. However House Slaves usually align to the existing power structure and not the opposing party who has no real power at the moment, other than that I just had to wonder what a good come back to that would be.

Not really they are patriots.

Send her tweet to me and will respond or else you can say the above.

Here is the tweet:
https://twitter.com/PriyamvadaGopal/sta ... 2002418688

@GauravaTweets @chakrabortty @alexvtunzelmann Interesting. Aditya& I are 'house negros', but the token Muslims supporting Modi are....what?

Vayutuvan · Post by **Vayutuvan** » 15 Apr 2014 02:45

RamaY: >> The purpose of mentioning spouse in an election affidavit is not to find whether one has a happy married life or not. It is to find if the candidate is hiding any financial assets.

That should be tweeted. Also about differing view points of a sanyasi and his wife. Good concepts these - that each is free to have their own views yet those views do not contradict UCC.

Vayutuvan · Post by **Vayutuvan** » 15 Apr 2014 03:01

Suraj wrote:muraliravi: Everyone in the fray in most elections have had some personal baggage. It was known that IG was having dessert on the side. RG marrying an uneducated Italian waitress can have turned off a few. ABV was unmarried. RahulG is seen as an unmarried player by some. What I'm saying is, there's no history of this being an issue before, and so far, despite the artificial 'controversy', there isn't one here.

Rumors same as ABV's soft corner for some lady friend.

debadutta · Post by **debadutta** » 15 Apr 2014 03:11

muraliravi wrote:Am I the only one who thinks that with all this Modi-Jashodaben controversy, BJP will lose a significant chunk of votes in the upcoming phases.

Some one that i know had made a comment regarding this in facebook , but was quickly shouted down . As much as media may try, this is a non issue.