Su-30: News and Discussion

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JTull
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Re: Su-30: News and Discussion

Postby JTull » 11 Apr 2014 18:06

Austin wrote:AFAIK , the WSO is NOT a pilot and MKI can be flown by the pilot on the front cockpit and not the back.


AFAIK, Su-30 MKI has dual controls where either of the cockpits can be used to fly the aircraft. This is unlike the Rafale, F-15, F-18 etc where only the front cockpit can be used to fly the aircraft.

This is the reason why Su-30MKI doesn't have any specialised type-conversion or training aircraft as every aircraft can be used for the job.

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Re: Su-30: News and Discussion

Postby SaiK » 11 Apr 2014 19:50

aren't those avionices from france? sextant?

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Re: Su-30: News and Discussion

Postby darshhan » 11 Apr 2014 23:42

RKumar wrote:^ Philip are you Russian? I personally find your posts more and more disturbing and offending.


RKumar ji, If Philip is Russian, then many more BRFites are American(to the core). I sincerely hope that you get disturbed and offended by their posts too. Otherwise you will be indulging in what is called as selective cherry picking.

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Re: Su-30: News and Discussion

Postby RKumar » 12 Apr 2014 01:16

Sir ji ... I am not anti Russian or anti West but I am pro India. I look after only Indian interests.

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Re: Su-30: News and Discussion

Postby Philip » 12 Apr 2014 08:18

I am definitely not a Russian,or "Rush-in"! Honest Injun that I am.

We have whether we like it or not inherited a large legacy of Soviet and Russian milware due to historical events.This hardware will be with us for a few decades yet,and we have to putt it to best use as we've done in the past decades.There will be problems and these have to be resolved by the various stakeholders.Please remember that it was not too long ago when we were unable to get the latest and bestest western wares,only Soviet/Russian,and remember that the SU-30 was a brilliant masterstroke by the then air chief who saw the vast potential of the aircraft which has proved itself worldwide and in Indo-western air exercises.

The IAF repeatedly say that they do not negotiate with the OEMs,a task held sacred only to the babus of the MOD,acting like high priests of some famous temple! They determine the lengthy,arcane procurement rituals,etc.,which as in an above post,an HAL official says, is part of the problem. The red-tapism that has been created by the MOD,increasing year after year especially under the stewardship of St.Scamthony,has caused a fearful logjam not just with IAF procurements but all across the 3 services leaving the armed forces in a chaotic ,desperate condition where replacement,upgrades,support and spare issues have been neglected by Scamthony,the arty. issue now pending for over 26 years!

Gen VKS enlightened us that the army can fight for barely a week without ammo,etc.,the navy has seen its sub capability dwindle to such a low level that the Paki sub fleet is probably in better shape! Warships are on the brink of commissioning without their area defence SAMs,the ASW helicopters (100 needed) are the end of their lives with no replacements in sight.KA-27/28 upgrades are pending fo ages.So are the light helo competition,tanker aircraft,the list is endless!

I asked many a time without getting a single reply,what has the Min. for Def. Production been doing all this time? His presence is as much in evidence as the missing link! Smooth and productive local production from the DPSUs,absorbing TOT,indigenisation of components and resolving vexing bottlenecks,etc.,come under his direct responsibility .The dereliction of duty by some elements within the DPSUs cannot be blamed upon either the services or the foreign manufacturers.Just look at the long list of desi programmes and their inordinate delays.They've been debated for too long to be listed again here. The current chief of the DRDO has tried to reform the entity by setting up "clusters" with accountable heads,who have increased powers to encourage them to succeed and on time,within budget as far as possible.

There was an enlightening piece written by a US analysts,who said that the US wished to retain its dominance in world affairs by controlling the seas.That was how the British empire where the sun never set ruled the waves and expanded across the oceans. How therefore could the US still dominate the world,in particular Asia when budgets were shrinking and cost of cutting edge tech was very high? The answer:"Prevent potential enemies from building up their navies and do everything possible to reduce the capability of their armed forces through decision-making delays,that lower the capability of their weaponry with shortages or spares,ammunition,missiles,etc. make them as dependent as possible upon weaponry and supplies from the US/west,which can be turned off like a tap when required."

Isn't this what has happened to India during the last decade under UPA-2 rule? Who is responsible? The buck stops at not just one desk but two.

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Re: Su-30: News and Discussion

Postby Manish_Sharma » 12 Apr 2014 17:23

:rotfl:

My conspiracy theory:

Philip saar is an american poster, who writes outrageously pro-russki posts to create in Bharatvasi posters a reaction against all stuff russian.

to counter this russian poster Shri NRao writes equally pro-amriki posts to create in Bharatvasi posters a reaction against all stuff american.

Archan ji just a joke kindly don't issue a warning.
:oops:
Last edited by Manish_Sharma on 12 Apr 2014 18:01, edited 1 time in total.

NRao
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Re: Su-30: News and Discussion

Postby NRao » 12 Apr 2014 17:47

: ).

Philip saar is an american russian poster, who writes outrageously pro-russki posts to create in Bharatvasi posters a reaction against all stuff russian.

to counter this russian poster Shri NRao writes equally pro-amriki posts to create in Bharatvasi posters a reaction against all stuff Russian american.


I *think* that should, as plainly as possible, explain why India is no longer leaning Russian is leaning American. I had, personally, no intentions of influencing history that much - a little perhaps. : ). But it is what it is.

{corrected for blunder mistakes.}



I posted somewhere, this is perhaps the lowest Indo-US relations have gone. So, let us see how it holds up. Especially if Modi comes to lead India (and perhaps Russia incorporates parts of Eastern Ukraine + perhaps even parts of the smaller nations up north) (and China provides Pakistan with technologies that should be a great threat to India).


{Just BTW, Coco island did belong to India and was gifted to Burma. Just saying.}





However, I do have a question: What do Indians (NOT "India") want to do? What game plan do they have and how do they want to execute it? Perhaps in a different thread.

Archan ji just a joke kindly don't issue a warning.


I support that.
Last edited by NRao on 12 Apr 2014 18:27, edited 1 time in total.

Cosmo_R
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Re: Su-30: News and Discussion

Postby Cosmo_R » 12 Apr 2014 17:56

darshhan wrote:
RKumar ji, If Philip is Russian, then many more BRFites are American(to the core). I sincerely hope that you get disturbed and offended by their posts too. Otherwise you will be indulging in what is called as selective cherry picking.


Darshanji, there is no such thing as 'selective cherry picking'. Cherry picking is by definition, selective.

Slow day :)

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Re: Su-30: News and Discussion

Postby Philip » 13 Apr 2014 17:24

So the secret has been discovered? A false flag op for Uncle Sam! He!He! Must inform Langley.

Seriously,the new regime has a massive task on its hands security wise. One doesn't care where the milware that the services desperately need right now comes from in the interim,east or west,but for heaven's sake,please let it come.Decisions should be based upon pragmatism and cost-effectiveness,plus safety in numbers.We cannot buy luxury barges everytime when our economy is not yet first class.Simultaneously,steps should be taken to see that a steady increase in indigenisation takes place so that at least 50% of the defence eqpt. is produced locally by 2020 and raised to 65/75% by 2025. What we have to bear in mind is that if we are importing tech by TOT or JVs,the obsolescence factor should not kick in within a decade or so.We can never be completely independent in mil. tech,s it has taken decades of massive investment and human resources for the US to stay at the top of the heap tech wise,but at the cost of trillions ,something that we can't afford.

Just as we've succeeded with our space and missile programmes,almost entirely on our own,so should we develop futuristic tech like directed energy weapons like lasers,EMP weapons,rail guns,etc.,and leapfrog "reinventing the wheel". Prioritising which programmes are the most vital to our defence requirements should be taken up by the DPSUs,instead of them trying to produce every single item and fall between two stools.In this ,the SU-30 is one of the key programmes that should keep on succeeding with the Super-Sukhoi first,leading to the FGFA in the future.

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Re: Su-30: News and Discussion

Postby Austin » 17 Apr 2014 11:08

FGFA will carry 2 x Brahmos-M missiles
MiG-29K will carry 2 x Brahmos-M missiles
Su-30MKI will carry 3 x Brahmos-M missiles

Brahmos-M

- 6m long
- 0.5m diameter
- Mach 3.5
- 290km range

India’s Air Force to get 40 strike fighters with BrahMos missiles

KUALA LUMPUR, April 16, /ITAR-TASS/. India’s Air Force will get 40 SU-30MKI strike fighters armed with a smaller version of BrahMos missiles, Russian-Indian joint venture BrahMos Aerospace President Sivathanu Pillai told ARMS-TASS at the international arms exhibition DSA-2014 in Kuala Lumpur on Wednesday, April 16.

The company is working to reduce the weight of the missile so that it could be integrated with different platforms, including the fifth-generation fighter India is creating together with Russia, he said.

Pillai noted that the commissioning of the Vikramaditya aircraft carrier complete with deck-based MiG-29K/KUB jet fighters required accelerated work to arm them with a smaller version of the BrahMos missile so that the aircraft could take off from the carrier with two missiles under their wings.

While the fifth-generation jet fighter and MiG-29K/KUB aircraft can be armed with two BrahMos-M missiles, the Su-30MKI strike fighters can carry three such missiles. The latter aircraft will be modernised to take and fire the missiles. The Indian Air Force has already made the relevant decision.

Pillai hopes that the first ship-based version of the BrahMos missile will be fired in the fourth quarter of this year from a SU-30MKI jet fighter.

The missile will be 6 metres long and have a diameter of 0.5 metres. It will be able to travel at a speed 3.5 times the sound velocity and carry a charge of 200 to 300 kg over a maximum distance of up to 290 km. The BrahMos missiles that have been tested up to date are two-stage cruise missiles 10 meters long and 0.7 metres in diameter.

The BrahMos supersonic cruise missile was successfully test fired from the Indian Navy's newest guided missile frigate INS Tarkash off the coast of Goa in late May 2013.

The missile performed high-level “C” manoeuvre at pre-determined flight path and successfully hit the target. The surface-to-surface missile, having a range of 290-km, was test launched from the Russian-built Project 1135.6 class warship.

BrahMos cruise missiles have been adopted by India’s Army and the Navy's surface ships. The Indian Air Force has also ordered a batch of land-based missiles. Work is also underway to adapt the missile to Su-30MKI planes used by the Indian Air Force.

BrahMos is an acronym of the two rivers: Brahmaputra in India and Moskva in Russia.
When visiting the headquarters of the Russian-Indian joint venture BrahMos Aerospace Limited that makes supersonic cruise missiles, the chief of the Russian Army General Staff said that the joint venture made reliable missiles that have few matches in the world.

The joint venture has designed a new version of the supersonic cruise missile of the same name that can be launched from submarines. The missiles are intended for use aboard the Scorpion-type submarine, for which the Indian Navy has placed orders in France.

The Russian-Indian joint venture BrahMos has designed a new version of the supersonic cruise missile of the same name that can be launched from submarines.The BrahMos missile has a flight range of up to 290 kilometres and is capable of carrying a conventional warhead of 300 kilograms. The missile can cruise at a maximum speed of 2.8 Mach.


http://en.itar-tass.com/world/728303

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Re: Su-30: News and Discussion

Postby maitya » 17 Apr 2014 13:58

Austin wrote:FGFA will carry 2 x Brahmos-M missiles
MiG-29K will carry 2 x Brahmos-M missiles
Su-30MKI will carry 3 x Brahmos-M missiles

Brahmos-M

- 6m long
- 0.5m diameter
- Mach 3.5
- 290km range

India’s Air Force to get 40 strike fighters with BrahMos missiles
KUALA LUMPUR, April 16, /ITAR-TASS/. India’s Air Force will get 40 SU-30MKI strike fighters armed with a smaller version of BrahMos missiles, Russian-Indian joint venture BrahMos Aerospace President Sivathanu Pillai told ARMS-TASS at the international arms exhibition DSA-2014 in Kuala Lumpur on Wednesday, April 16.
<<snip>>
The missile will be 6 metres long and have a diameter of 0.5 metres. It will be able to travel at a speed 3.5 times the sound velocity and carry a charge of 200 to 300 kg over a maximum distance of up to 290 km. The BrahMos missiles that have been tested up to date are two-stage cruise missiles 10 meters long and 0.7 metres in diameter.
<<snip>>
http://en.itar-tass.com/world/728303

Hmmmmm ... :twisted: The Kilo torpedo tubes are of 533 mm dia and are around 8 meters in length :twisted: ... Hmmmmm.

Maybe the booster was/is the constraint ... who knows!! Interesting times ...

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Re: Su-30: News and Discussion

Postby member_28526 » 17 Apr 2014 22:10

What is the weight? Perhaps the su-30mki can be made to carry 2 brahmos and 1 nirbhay also. It will give it tremendous reach.

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Re: Su-30: News and Discussion

Postby Austin » 17 Apr 2014 22:40

kaizanin wrote:What is the weight? Perhaps the su-30mki can be made to carry 2 brahmos and 1 nirbhay also. It will give it tremendous reach.


Weight of Brahmos-M is ~ 1.5 T , Nirbhai weighs ~ 1T , So MKI can carry various combination of Nirbhai/Brahmos-M is required.

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Re: Su-30: News and Discussion

Postby sarabpal.s » 18 Apr 2014 12:18

Nirbhay is slow abd required in larger no. But Brahmos-m is fast can do it with few

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Re: Su-30: News and Discussion

Postby member_20453 » 18 Apr 2014 13:33

hmm I don't think the 40 fighter being Brahmos capable is enough, perhaps another 40 would allow for more flexbility in operations.

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Re: Su-30: News and Discussion

Postby sarabpal.s » 18 Apr 2014 15:57

All new born su30 should be Brahmos able with that we can use them efficiently in multiple theater war l8ke Tibet or Pok or Pakistan or in remote island of A&N & lakshdep

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Re: Su-30: News and Discussion

Postby John » 18 Apr 2014 19:41

IMO most likely load for MKI will be single Brahmos-M anything more is pure fantasy. Take any info from promotional material with grain of salt, remember Brahmos brochure pics of Su-30 carrying 3 Brahmos, Mig-29k/27/SU-24 all carrying Brahmos.

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Re: Su-30: News and Discussion

Postby srai » 18 Apr 2014 21:02

John wrote:IMO most likely load for MKI will be single Brahmos-M anything more is pure fantasy. Take any info from promotional material with grain of salt, remember Brahmos brochure pics of Su-30 carrying 3 Brahmos, Mig-29k/27/SU-24 all carrying Brahmos.


Brahmos 1 ASM weights 2,500kgs. MKI needed to to have its structure strengthened to carry even 1. On the other hand, Brahmos-3 weights 1,500kgs. MKI would easily carry 3 without any structural modifications.

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Re: Su-30: News and Discussion

Postby John » 18 Apr 2014 22:15

We don't know that yet till a Flanker is tested with Brahmos-M in that configuration i am a skeptic, for while Brahmos co insisted MKI can carry 3 then 1 and finally after some design studies said it requires structural modifications to carry even 1. Lets wait and see before believing press releases.

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Re: Su-30: News and Discussion

Postby member_28526 » 18 Apr 2014 22:24

sarabpal.s wrote:Nirbhay is slow abd required in larger no. But Brahmos-m is fast can do it with few



Nirbhay may be slow but for tactical reasons if it is mounted on MKI it will be a range booster; 1000km + MKI combat range.

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Re: Su-30: News and Discussion

Postby NRao » 22 Apr 2014 03:33

Data points:

Air Force likely to get entire Sukhoi-30MKI fleet by 2019

Yet this is small change compared to the massive order of 272 Su-30MKIs, which started out as a bargain at $30 million apiece, but which are now priced at $75 million each.

Business Standard spoke to HAL officials to find out why prices have risen despite an ongoing indigenisation programme that has met all its targets. The reason, it emerges, lies in the nature of the manufacturing contract signed with Sukhoi, which was to see a progressive enhancementof Indian content through four phases. Yet, even though Phase IV has recently been achieved, this provides for only limited indigenisation. While Sukhoi was bound to transfer technology for building the fighter, the contract mandates that all raw materials - including titanium blocks and forgings, aluminium and steel plates, etc - must be sourced from Russia.

This means that, of the 43,000 items that go into the Sukhoi-30MKI, some 5,800 consist of large metal plates, castings and forgings that must contractually be provided by Russia. HAL then transforms the raw material into aircraft components, using the manufacturing technology transferred by Sukhoi.

That results in massive wastage of metal. For example, a 486 kg titanium bar supplied by Russia is whittled down to a 15.9 kg tail component. The titanium shaved off is wasted. Similarly a wing bracket that weighs just 3.1 kg has to be fashioned from a titanium forging that weighs 27 kg.

Furthermore, the contract stipulates that standard components like nuts, bolts, screws and rivets - a total of 7,146 items - must all be sourced from Russia.


The reason for this, explain HAL officials, is that manufacturing sophisticated raw materials like titanium extrusions in India is not economically viable for the tiny quantities needed for Su-30MKI fighters.

"For raw materials production to be commercially viable, India's aerospace companies would need to produce in larger volumes. That means they must become global suppliers, as a part of a major aerospace company's global supply chain. Licensed manufacture for our own needs does not create adequate demand," says Daljeet Singh, HAL Nashik's manufacturing head.

Still, HAL builds about 10,000 of the 30,000 fabricated components in each fighter. While a significant percentage of this is outsourced to private sector vendors in aerospace hubs like Bangalore, Hyderabad, Chennai, Pune and Coimbatore, the Nashik facility itself hums with activity, which includes modifying the Su-30MKI to fit on the air-to-surface Brahmos cruise missile, which will make the fighter even more deadly.

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Re: Su-30: News and Discussion

Postby ramana » 22 Apr 2014 03:48

Thats right when you machine forgings for aerospace quality, a lot of surface material is removed for that is where micro cracks are formed. Sometimes a half-to an inch of material is removed. The other alternative is to make net forgings/investment castings and machine only the mating interfaces.
And aerospace nuts bolts and screws are not your average fasteners and have material ot tracebility to preclude errors.


The machined tailings can be remelted to form ingots. Looks like HAL needs a good recycler!

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Re: Su-30: News and Discussion

Postby Singha » 22 Apr 2014 12:04

gee no wonder even a maglite torch made of :aerospace grade aluminium: is so costly!

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Re: Su-30: News and Discussion

Postby member_28539 » 22 Apr 2014 12:10

It would be good to see 5-6 additional squadrons of MKI's apart from the current orders considering the kind of brute force it will bring to our "Lean & Mean" Airforce :twisted: ...not to say that may IAF become a one-fighter force but the plane is all ashirwaad from even the older/retired lot of the Airforce (some of them very hard to please :lol: )....

Also, we could use all the help in numbers considering the two front war i always dhoti shiver about personally...

Regards,
Joshi_Sa

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Re: Su-30: News and Discussion

Postby Kersi D » 22 Apr 2014 13:53

ramana wrote:Thats right when you machine forgings for aerospace quality, a lot of surface material is removed for that is where micro cracks are formed. Sometimes a half-to an inch of material is removed. The other alternative is to make net forgings/investment castings and machine only the mating interfaces.
And aerospace nuts bolts and screws are not your average fasteners and have material ot tracebility to preclude errors.


The machined tailings can be remelted to form ingots. Looks like HAL needs a good recycler!


With the helper of some insider / politician / babu, HAL may be selling it as scrap!!

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Re: Su-30: News and Discussion

Postby member_23891 » 22 Apr 2014 16:34

Kersi D wrote:

With the helper of some insider / politician / babu, HAL may be selling it as scrap!!


:lol: I got the same smell of scam pie in the making. Just guess the possible value of scrap when titanium price on average hovers around 30-40$ per kilogram.

Another scam in making?

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Re: Su-30: News and Discussion

Postby NRao » 22 Apr 2014 17:39

"For raw materials production to be commercially viable, India's aerospace companies would need to produce in larger volumes. That means they must become global suppliers, as a part of a major aerospace company's global supply chain. Licensed manufacture for our own needs does not create adequate demand," says Daljeet Singh, HAL Nashik's manufacturing head


He has made a good business case for India to be a global supplier.

Guess it is much easier to import and be happy. Why bother.

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Re: Su-30: News and Discussion

Postby NRao » 22 Apr 2014 19:10

massive wastage of metal


That could be a Shuklaism, for all we know.

I very much doubt that the metal is being wasted - as in thrown in the trash. What they exactly do with I am not certain, but hope they send it back to Russia to recycle.


But, what I am slowly learning is that India has not *really* benefited for this thing called "ToT". Seems to me it is a badly managed concept - even today. That Indians could have and should have done far better. It would mean a lot more work for sure. And, risks too. But if one wants huge rewards, they need huge risks too.

Interesting times.

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Re: Su-30: News and Discussion

Postby manjgu » 23 Apr 2014 07:57

looks like the cause of C 130 crash has been indentified... looks it got into the wake of the leading aircraft... !! and hit a hillock

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Re: Su-30: News and Discussion

Postby vic » 23 Apr 2014 19:06

HAL has super excellent capacity to enter into one sided contracts completely in favor of foreign supplier, for instance AL-55 engine, Shakti engine etc. Not that BDL or even BEL is any different.

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Re: Su-30: News and Discussion

Postby NRao » 23 Apr 2014 19:30

Interesting:

Brahmos with Sukhoi-30 fighters to improve India's strike options

Parked in a hangar in HAL's Nashik facility is the first Su-30MKI that is being modified to carry the Brahmos in the cavity between the aircraft's giant engines. Later this year, ground tests will begin at Nashik. If successful, the aircraft will be ferried to Rajasthan to actually test-fire the missile in Pokhran. If all goes well, the air-launched Brahmos would enter operational service next year.

While HAL modifies the aircraft, the Indo-Russian joint venture that has developed the Brahmos is finalising and certifying an air-launched version of the missile.

Developing an air-launched Brahmos has not been easy, given its weight (2.5 tonnes) and size (8 metres long, 0.7 metres in diameter). The Indian Air Force (IAF) challenged both Sukhoi and HAL to propose competing solutions for integrating missile with aircraft. The Indian solution won out handily, and a contract was signed with HAL in January. Already the Brahmos has been mounted under the Su-30MKI's belly, secured on two mounting stations that replace hard points that were designed to carry ten 250-kilogramme bombs.

"The Russians are most interested in how HAL is integrating the Brahmos. We beat them out in the contract and now they want to know what we're doing," says RP Khapli, who is leading HAL's design team in the project.


Followed by this comment:

Nobody will acknowledge this, but modifying a Su-30MKI to carry a 2,500 kg missile is a big step towards rendering it capable of carrying and delivering a thermonuclear bomb.



So much for the MKI being a Russian plane:

Besides the Brahmos project, HAL's Aircraft Upgrade R&D Centre has developed over 40 modifications to enhance the performance of the Su-30MKI. It has also developed almost 400 types of ground equipment, such as oxygen chargers, nitrogen chargers, mobile air charging trolleys and cooling trolleys.

"We are not just building aircraft for the IAF but are also a knowledge partner for indigenisation," says Khapli.

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Re: Su-30: News and Discussion

Postby srai » 29 Apr 2014 06:01

SU-30MKI by the numbers ...

Where Sukhois get their wings and talons
Where Sukhois get their wings and talons
Apr 28, 2014 02:06 AM , By Madhumathi D. S.

Sukhoi-30s are in their final assembly stage at MiG Complex of Hindustan Aeronautics Ltd at Nasik.
In the melting mid-afternoon skies of Nasik an iron bird thunders over the 50-year-old MiG Complex of Hindustan Aeronautics Ltd. Below, in the large hangars scattered across the tree-dense campus, different stages of another beaky Sukhoi 30 fighter plane are being pieced together part-by its 43,007-parts.

Trudge to another hangar a few snaky lanes away and another Su-30 sits on a rig, innards unravelled, wings taken apart and the neural wires keeping their codes intact. The Su-30’s cycle of birth, life and re-birth happen in this one place. The Russian origin Sukhoi-30 — prefixed with the Indian mark of MKI — is called the backbone of the country’s air defence. Building, reconstructing and designing its different elements are all in a day’s work for the three main teams of the 5000-strong complex.

The 3,500-acre MiG Complex breathes ‘Su-30’, yet keeps the old fighter’s name. It assembles the fighter plane under a 2000 licence from Russia, senior officials at the complex told The Hindu during an invited visit to the Su-30 manufacturing facilities. The first lot of 50 Su-30s was bought. Of the 222 Su-30s to be built by HAL Nasik, 149 have flown out to Indian Air Force bases since 2004. The last delivery to the IAF is to be completed in 2018-19, said G.S.R. Prasad, senior executive of the aircraft manufacturing unit. For the remaining 72 planes, the production team is focussed on delivering 14-16 aircraft a year through four years.

In its 20-odd flying years Su-30 passes through the three arms of the complex — Manufacture, Repair & Overhaul, and Aircraft Upgrade Research & Design Centre.

It takes two to three months to assemble a Su-30. At one large ‘shop’, as we move past large grey titanium blocks and arcs from Russia laid on the large tables, we hear tales of how the precious, foot-thick chunks are tamed into a shapely wing or a fuselage ring a few millimetres thick. Then they are welded, wired, fastened, engined and eventually made into a whole mean war machine.

The Nasik facility also houses the certifying Regional Centre for Military Airworthiness. Once ready, the Su-30 is test flown nearby at the Air Force’s air field at Ozhar. On that day, five Su-30s waited on the tarmac for their turn.

Two planes sat bared on rigs at Repari & Overhaul. Now is the time to recharge the middle-aged first batch as they near 1,500 flight hours. It takes 15-24 months to pluck out and micro-inspect each part, return or replace it, and may be fit a new engine from the Koraput facility, said Prakash Joshi of Overhaul.

Over the years, the Indian content of Su-30 has been increasing to 60-70 per cent by sourcing of parts from industries in Nasik, Bangalore, Pune, Mumbai and Coimbatore. The AURDC keeps the plane’s eyes and ears — avionics — sharp with timely improvements, said R.P. Khapli from Design. The complex supports the 450-plus Russian-origin fighter and transport fleet. It is fitting the Su-30 with the BrahMos cruise missile for first testing in December.


FYI, 199 Su-30MKIs in IAF service as of Apr 28, 2014. [50 (Russia) + 149 (HAL)]
Last edited by srai on 29 Apr 2014 08:04, edited 1 time in total.

vina
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Re: Su-30: News and Discussion

Postby vina » 29 Apr 2014 06:38

That could be a Shuklaism, for all we know.

No. That history of material wastage has historically been the Russian way, right from the Mig 21, ie machining from ingots. For eg, the Jaguar production lines have little or no material wastage because the parts are formed close to final shape and later machined and finished.

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Re: Su-30: News and Discussion

Postby ManjaM » 29 Apr 2014 07:33

Ti density is 4.5g/cc or 4500kg/m3 . So a stock thats 450 kg is approx 2mx0.5mx0.1m or thereabouts. From the weight and size of the stock, it is eminently believable that the final part is around 16 kgs, probably a spar with web and flanges around .04-.06" thick. On regional and business jets, It is common to see raw stock of Al 7050 50"x50"x6" or larger, weighing around 1200+lbs machined down to bulkheads weighing around 150-200lbs.
I don't know why he is talking about the scrap being "wasted". One can get around $2-$3/lb for the scrap Ti.

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Re: Su-30: News and Discussion

Postby srai » 29 Apr 2014 08:53

srai wrote:SU-30MKI by the numbers ...

Where Sukhois get their wings and talons
...

... The first lot of 50 Su-30s was bought. Of the 222 Su-30s to be built by HAL Nasik, 149 have flown out to Indian Air Force bases since 2004. The last delivery to the IAF is to be completed in 2018-19, said G.S.R. Prasad, senior executive of the aircraft manufacturing unit. For the remaining 72 planes, the production team is focussed on delivering 14-16 aircraft a year through four years.

...


FYI, 199 Su-30MKIs in IAF service as of Apr 28, 2014. [50 (Russia) + 149 (HAL)]


  1. 20 Squadron “Lightnings” -> South Western Air Command (SWAC) at Lohegaon in Pune
  2. 30 Squadron “Rhinos” -> South Western Air Command (SWAC) at Lohegaon in Pune
  3. 8 Squadron “Eight Pursuits” -> Central Air Command (CAC) at Bareilly in Uttar Pradesh
  4. 24 Squadron “Hawks” -> Central Air Command (CAC) at Bareilly in Uttar Pradesh
  5. 2 Squadron “Winged Arrows” -> Eastern Air Command (EAC) at Tezpur in Assam
  6. 102 Squadron “Trisonics” -> Eastern Air Command (EAC) at Chabua in Assam
  7. 31 Squadron “Lions” -> South Western Air Command (SWAC) at Jodhpur in Rajasthan
  8. 220 Squadron "Desert Tigers" -> Western Air Command (WAC) at Halwara in Punjab
  9. 21 Squadron “Ankush” -> Western Air Command (WAC) at Sirsa in Haryana
  10. 15 Squadron 'Flying Lancers' -> Western Air Command (WAC) at Bhatinda in Punjab

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Re: Su-30: News and Discussion

Postby Vipul » 04 May 2014 16:11

India May Expand Su-30MKI Order Beyond 272.

Going by the pace at which the Indian Air Force (IAF) is expanding bases for the Sukhoi-30MKI fighters, ordering more of these Russian-made aircraft looks a distinct possibility.

The expansion of the Su-30MKI fleet may happen irrespective of the progress in the MMRCA deal in which negotiations with the French manufacturer Dassault are on. India had in 2002 ordered 230 fighters and a further 42 had been ordered in 2012.

The Ministry of Defense has already announced plans to set up new bases to house the aircraft that are expected to be delivered up to 2018-19. The rapid expansion of bases housing the Sukhois while at the same time curtailing MiG-21 operations is a clear indication of the important role the Su-30MKI is playing for the IAF and the need for even more aircraft of this type in future.

Some 100 Sukhois will be spread out to bases such as Thanjavur in the deep south, Chabua in the northeast and Pune in western India, according to media reports.

“Thanjavur airbase is going to be another strategically important airbase of the Indian Air Force. By stationing our frontline fighter aircraft Sukhoi at Thanjavur, IAF can protect vast area of interest”, India’s defence minister, AK Antony said after inaugurating the airbase on March 27, 2013.

Aside of the air dominance function for which the Sukhois had been originally procured, they are being utilized for interception and for reconnaissance. Recently, a Su-30 MKI had been scrambled to intercept an unidentified flying object entering Indian airspace form the western border. Some 4-8 Su-30MKIs are being tasked with strategic reconnaissance along the India-Pakistan borders with EL/M-2060P SAR pods, various reports said.

The fitment of the BrahMos cruise missile to the Su-30MKI will add another dimension to this vastly capable fighter. Reports say that some 40 Sukhois will be modified to carry this lethal armament which can function as an air-launched precision strike missile.

The induction of the Su-30MKIs seems to have increased the confidence and capability of the IAF as can be noted from this statement of the former IAF Chief NAK Browne, “right now we have 34 combat squadrons and in spite of these draw downs of the MIG-21s, we are supplementing them with the Su-30 squadrons”. The former chief had told a television network on October 5, 2012, “What’s going to happen is that at least in the 12th plan which finishes in 2017 we will continue to maintain 34 squadrons. They go up a little bit, up and down but they will remain at 34 squadrons but with far greater capability than even what we have today.”

As of March 2013, the IAF had a fleet of 194 Su-30MKI aircraft but this number will grow to 272 after India placed another order in December 2012 for 42 aircraft about 10 months after declaring Dassault winner of the MMRCA competition.

The licence-manufacturing program of the Su-30MKI is expected to conclude in 2018-19. “We hope to form 14 squadrons of Su-30MKI fighters by 2018. By this time we will have 272 such planes in service”, an unnamed HAL official was quoted as saying by Itar-Tass on February 24, 2014.

With the Su-30MKI getting increasingly entrenched into the IAF’s combat capability, provisions will have to be made for maintaining SU-30MKI utilization levels. As the number of sorties increase, so also will the requirement for maintenance and overhaul for which aircraft will have to be withdrawn from service.

The Su-30 MKI planes have not been without their share of problems. Three crashes, in 2009, 2011 and 2013 have forced the IAF, Irkut and HAL to sit down and find solutions to the problems which came to fore after the accident investigations. The good news is that the past year has been relatively problem-free despite increased sorties.

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Re: Su-30: News and Discussion

Postby Manish_Sharma » 05 May 2014 09:51

Vipul wrote:India May Expand Su-30MKI Order Beyond 272.

Aside of the air dominance function for which the Sukhois had been originally procured, they are being utilized for interception and for reconnaissance. Recently, a Su-30 MKI had been scrambled to intercept an unidentified flying object entering Indian airspace form the western border. Some 4-8 Su-30MKIs are being tasked with strategic reconnaissance along the India-Pakistan borders with EL/M-2060P SAR pods, various reports said.


How does MKI works with EL/M-2060P SAR pod? Does 2060P pod records the area covered and a/c goes back to the airbase and then the recording is downloaded or its sent to other a/cs and base in realtime?

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Re: Su-30: News and Discussion

Postby Singha » 05 May 2014 10:38

I dont think these is realtime capability.

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Re: Su-30: News and Discussion

Postby Austin » 05 May 2014 11:19

Dhananjay wrote:How does MKI works with EL/M-2060P SAR pod? Does 2060P pod records the area covered and a/c goes back to the airbase and then the recording is downloaded or its sent to other a/cs and base in realtime?


I think with ODL and enough bandwidth they might be able to do real time transfer to assets on Air or Ground.

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Re: Su-30: News and Discussion

Postby Karan M » 05 May 2014 18:06

Dhananjay wrote:
Vipul wrote:India May Expand Su-30MKI Order Beyond 272.

Aside of the air dominance function for which the Sukhois had been originally procured, they are being utilized for interception and for reconnaissance. Recently, a Su-30 MKI had been scrambled to intercept an unidentified flying object entering Indian airspace form the western border. Some 4-8 Su-30MKIs are being tasked with strategic reconnaissance along the India-Pakistan borders with EL/M-2060P SAR pods, various reports said.


How does MKI works with EL/M-2060P SAR pod? Does 2060P pod records the area covered and a/c goes back to the airbase and then the recording is downloaded or its sent to other a/cs and base in realtime?


Realtime based on direct datalinks provided a/c is LOS


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