Narendra Modi vs the Dynasty: Contrasting Ideas of India

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vivek.rao
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Re: Narendra Modi vs the Dynasty: Contrasting Ideas of India

Post by vivek.rao »

The last 12 years of US SD policies has been a disaster. If you remember correctly, the relations with Putin led Russia were not bad until GWB started this building missile defense for Eastern Europe and started supporting/creating revolutions in Russian domain to encourage anti-Russian behavior. Obama continued with that repugnant behavior and now they stare at Putin like nikkammas.

The same dumb,stupid policies continued with no brains in India too. I don't think it is Hillary or Obama. Even during Bush time, the NGO MAFIA was actively working for US. Thanks to ItalianMAFIA and MMS, they are able to penetrate deep into India destabilize every institution.

How America Lost Vladimir Putin - A rupture between Russia and the West, 14 years in the making
During Putin's visit to President George W. Bush's Texas ranch two months later, the U.S. leader, speaking at a local high school, declared his Russian counterpart "a new style of leader, a reformer … a man who's going to make a huge difference in making the world more peaceful, by working closely with the United States."

Putin promotes a conservative, ultra-nationalist form of state capitalism as an alternative to Western democracy.
For a moment, it seemed, the distrust and antipathy of the Cold War were fading. Then, just weeks later, Bush announced that the United States was withdrawing from the Anti-Ballistic Missile Treaty, so that it could build a system in Eastern Europe to protect NATO allies and U.S. bases from Iranian missile attack.
In a nationally televised address, Putin warned that the move would undermine arms control and nonproliferation efforts.

"This step has not come as a surprise to us," Putin said. "But we believe this decision to be mistaken." The sequence of events early in Washington's relationship with Putin reflects a dynamic that has persisted through the ensuing 14 years and the current crisis in Ukraine: U.S. actions, some intentional and some not, sparking an overreaction from an aggrieved Putin.

As Russia masses tens of thousands of troops along the Russian-Ukrainian border, Putin is thwarting what the Kremlin says is an American plot to surround Russia with hostile neighbors. Experts said he is also promoting "Putinism"—a conservative, ultra-nationalist form of state capitalism—as a global alternative to Western democracy.
Putin and other Russian officials asked why NATO continued to grow when the enemy it was created to fight, the Soviet Union, had ceased to exist. And they asked what NATO expansion would do to counter new dangers, such as terrorism and proliferation. "This purely mechanical expansion does not let us face the current threats," Putin said, "and cannot allow us to prevent such things as the terrorist attacks in Madrid or restore stability in Afghanistan."


Thomas E. Graham, who served as Bush's senior director for Russia on the National Security Council, said a larger effort should have been made to create a new post-Soviet, European security structure that replaced NATO and included Russia. "What we should have been aiming for—and what we should be aiming for at this point," Graham said, "is a security structure that's based on three pillars: the United States, a more or less unified Europe, and Russia."
Putin was also deeply skeptical of U.S. efforts to nurture democracy in the former Soviet bloc, where the State Department and American nonprofit groups provided training and funds to local civil-society groups. In public speeches, he accused the United States of meddling.

Bush said that the U.S. was promoting freedom in Iraq. Putin openly mocked him.

In late 2003, street protests in the former Soviet republic of Georgia, known as the Rose Revolution, led to the election of a pro-Western leader. Four months later, street protests in Ukraine that became known as the Orange Revolution resulted in a pro-Western president taking office there. Putin saw both developments as American-backed plots and slaps in the face, so soon after his assistance in Afghanistan, according to senior U.S. officials.

In 2006, Bush and Putin's sparring over democracy intensified. In a press conference at the first G-8 summit hosted by Russia, the two presidents had a testy exchange. Bush said that the United States was promoting freedom in Iraq, which was engulfed in violence. Putin openly mocked him.

"We certainly would not want to have the same kind of democracy as they have in Iraq," Putin said, smiling as the audience erupted into laughter, "I will tell you quite honestly." Bush tried to laugh off the remark. "Just wait," he replied, referring to Iraq.
Biting more than they can chew
Bush's relationship with Putin unraveled in 2008. In February, Kosovo unilaterally declared independence from Serbia with the support of the United States—a step that Russia, a longtime supporter of Serbia, had been trying to block diplomatically for more than a decade. In April, Bush won support at a NATO summit in Bucharest for the construction of a missile-defense system in Eastern Europe.

The pattern is clear: U.S. actions, some intentional and some not, sparking an overreaction from an aggrieved Putin.
Bush called on NATO to give Ukraine and Georgia a so-called Membership Action Plan, a formal process that would put each on a path toward eventually joining the alliance. France and Germany blocked him and warned that further NATO expansion would spur an aggressive Russian stance when Moscow regained power. In the end, the alliance simply issued a statement saying the two countries "will become members of NATO." That compromise risked the worst of both worlds—antagonizing Moscow without giving Kiev and Tbilisi a roadmap to join NATO.


The senior U.S. official said these steps amounted to "three train wrecks" from Putin's point of view, exacerbating the Russian leader's sense of victimization. "Doing all three of those things in kind of close proximity—Kosovo independence, missile defense and the NATO expansion decisions—sort of fed his sense of people trying to take advantage of Russia," he said.

SAME STYLE OF OPERATION EVERYWHERE
In 2011, Putin accused Secretary of State Hillary Clinton of secretly organizing street demonstrations after disputed Russian parliamentary elections. Putin said Clinton had encouraged "mercenary" Kremlin foes. And he claimed that foreign governments had provided "hundreds of millions" of dollars to Russian opposition groups.



"She set the tone for some opposition activists, gave them a signal, they heard this signal and started active work," Putin said. McFaul called that a gross exaggeration. He said the U.S. government and American nonprofit groups in total have provided tens of millions of dollars in support to civil-society groups in Russia and former Soviet bloc countries since 1989.
Deferring to European officials, the Obama administration backed a plan that would have moved Ukraine closer to the EU and away from a pro-Russian economic bloc created by Putin. Critics said it was a mistake to make Ukraine choose sides. Jack F. Matlock, who served as U.S. ambassador to Moscow from 1987 to 1991, said that years of escalating protests by Putin made it clear he believed the West was surrounding him with hostile neighbors. And for centuries, Russian leaders have viewed a friendly Ukraine as vital to Moscow's defense.

"This weird notion that Putin will go away and there will suddenly be a pliant Russia is false."
"The real red line has always been Ukraine," Matlock said. "When you begin to poke them in the most sensitive area, unnecessarily, about their security, you are going to get a reaction that makes them a lot less cooperative." American experts said it was vital for the U.S. to establish a new long-term strategy toward Russia that does not blame the current crisis solely on Putin. Matthew Rojansky, a Russia expert at the Wilson Center, argued that demonizing Putin reflected the continued failure of American officials to recognize Russia's power, interest, and importance.
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Re: Narendra Modi vs the Dynasty: Contrasting Ideas of India

Post by IndraD »

Adani was given land by Vaghela, the then con CM
https://twitter.com/vagabondoc/status/4 ... 22/photo/1
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Re: Narendra Modi vs the Dynasty: Contrasting Ideas of India

Post by Vayutuvan »

chaanakya wrote:... but hooting/heckling by the Public in a public meeting in Bhubaneshwar one month before his death , i.e. in the year 1964 on 27th May. So the incident would have happened in April. In the Public meeting he was not allowed to speak and unable to bear the public shame he suffered paralysis attack and after one month he left this world.
Thanks. This is good enough to check world news papers to see anybody reported this incident. As per sprinkling of the ashes, my rational explanation is this: we should not underestimate the psychological effect of superstitious fear on those who were disheartened due to loosing the "war" (more like a battle I think but then it was the first brush with a better prepared and equipped army) specially who have been fed the coolaid that we were able to repulse the British. British have left because it was untenable for them to continue and (even though many on BRF dispute this) MKG also helped to awaken the masses. Had MKG been put down, then probably British wouldn't have survived the resulting backlash.
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Re: Narendra Modi vs the Dynasty: Contrasting Ideas of India

Post by Singha »

sounds like the rot with foreign funded NGOs is much deeper than we all think.

foreign agents searching undercover for mass graves with backing of select delhi officials with an intent to drag Namo to UN court....when the entire machinery of indian justice had been subverted already for the witch hunt...

this is worse than a banana democracy like TSP.

namo is probably fortunate hindus in Guj probably do not bury their dead, as some in south india do, all over the place in rural areas in corners of fields...else some dozens of bones could be exhumed and pinned on "death squads" after deft forensic manipulation by impartial labs in Khan.

whoever approved this type of activity from delhi end need to have the law go after them to fullest extent.
member_28352
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Re: Narendra Modi vs the Dynasty: Contrasting Ideas of India

Post by member_28352 »

^^^^Singhaji, fact is that desh has been a lot like this since in 1947 all we did was replace some goralog with kalalog. No more no less. Now we know about it, so it rankles us. Hopefully an Indic govt can CRE some of this crap.
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Re: Narendra Modi vs the Dynasty: Contrasting Ideas of India

Post by Vayutuvan »

Loong time ago I said we cannot trust Clinton couple. Was it possible that CBN, being a good friend of Kilton sahib, was also in the know and distanced himself from NaMo by pulling out of ABV coalition?
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Re: Narendra Modi vs the Dynasty: Contrasting Ideas of India

Post by harbans »

After reading about the 2002 riots, i realized the amount of misinformation is gargantuan. Various articles casually till date mentioned thousands of muslims were massacred and so on. Meanwhile this was the first riot where 60 were so secularly burnt that the reaction would be impossible to contain. Yet after a decades scrutiny from all kinds of sources the toll was: Muslims: 750; Hindu's: 250.
So who killed the Hindu's? It could either be Muslims or Cops or both. If it was Muslims, then it's not genocide but riots, if it is Cops, then Modi was doing his job, and if it's both then it's both Modi doing his job and Muslims rioting too. What would be of further interest is what would have been the death toll if Modi had not done what he actually did. It could really be in the 1000's for sure if there was genuine participation and will from State organs or from Modi's side as was there in 84.
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Re: Narendra Modi vs the Dynasty: Contrasting Ideas of India

Post by SaiK »

^besides, being a minority, the numbers should be high! even without eye-for-an-eye madness.
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Re: Narendra Modi vs the Dynasty: Contrasting Ideas of India

Post by Prem Kumar »

All: an urgent request from the TN BJP IT Cell

They have been blocked from sending bulk voice SMS, even though ADMK is sending them in plenty. They wanted to know if its possible to send it from US, Europe etc & also the rates. In India it is 1.5 paise/second.

Please reply if anyone knows about or has worked with SMS/MMS marketing companies. Thanks in advance.
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Re: Narendra Modi vs the Dynasty: Contrasting Ideas of India

Post by vivek.rao »

matrimc wrote:Loong time ago I said we cannot trust Clinton couple. Was it possible that CBN, being a good friend of Kilton sahib, was also in the know and distanced himself from NaMo by pulling out of ABV coalition?
Incompetent Obama admin is just blaming Clinton. She is not doing her own thing. It is SD policy in operation since 2004.
member_28108
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Re: Narendra Modi vs the Dynasty: Contrasting Ideas of India

Post by member_28108 »

Prem Kumar wrote:All: an urgent request from the TN BJP IT Cell

They have been blocked from sending bulk voice SMS, even though ADMK is sending them in plenty. They wanted to know if its possible to send it from US, Europe etc & also the rates. In India it is 1.5 paise/second.

Please reply if anyone knows about or has worked with SMS/MMS marketing companies. Thanks in advance.
You can use google hangout to send messages by SMS
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Re: Narendra Modi vs the Dynasty: Contrasting Ideas of India

Post by pankajs »

harbans wrote:After reading about the 2002 riots, i realized the amount of misinformation is gargantuan. Various articles casually till date mentioned thousands of muslims were massacred and so on. Meanwhile this was the first riot where 60 were so secularly burnt that the reaction would be impossible to contain. Yet after a decades scrutiny from all kinds of sources the toll was: Muslims: 750; Hindu's: 250.
So who killed the Hindu's? It could either be Muslims or Cops or both. If it was Muslims, then it's not genocide but riots, if it is Cops, then Modi was doing his job, and if it's both then it's both Modi doing his job and Muslims rioting too. What would be of further interest is what would have been the death toll if Modi had not done what he actually did. It could really be in the 1000's for sure if there was genuine participation and will from State organs or from Modi's side as was there in 84.
Point is we don't have the voice. The folks who control the media would rather spin it for the dienasy and foreign masters. The only folks who can force some media play are the BJP folks but as I have noticed for some reason BJP is not interested in countering such outright lies.

CON/Media has branded Modi as a fascist for the last 5+ years and only now did M/s Lekhi returned the charge in full measure. And this is true for most lies/distortions. BJP for whatever reason seems content to let most such distortions go unchallenged.

One singular contribution of SM has been that such fact cannot be fully suppressed however folks fully reliant on MSM are still being misinformed and mislead.
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Re: Narendra Modi vs the Dynasty: Contrasting Ideas of India

Post by Prem Kumar »

prasannasimha wrote:
Prem Kumar wrote:All: an urgent request from the TN BJP IT Cell

They have been blocked from sending bulk voice SMS, even though ADMK is sending them in plenty. They wanted to know if its possible to send it from US, Europe etc & also the rates. In India it is 1.5 paise/second.

Please reply if anyone knows about or has worked with SMS/MMS marketing companies. Thanks in advance.
You can use google hangout to send messages by SMS
Thanks. Can you plz explain how -

a) Is there a limit to how many recipients?
b) Do the recipients have to have a Google account?
c) Cost?
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Re: Narendra Modi vs the Dynasty: Contrasting Ideas of India

Post by chaanakya »

Loose canons like Giriraj Singh , who just run away with the tongue, are the real danger to NaMo victory. NaMo should distance himself from such comments and ask such minions to keep quite. Fight is going to get bitter as the polling nears it home run.

You will hear the fake outrage from all and sundry and gullible janta would have doubt.
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Re: Narendra Modi vs the Dynasty: Contrasting Ideas of India

Post by KLP Dubey »

SaiK wrote: who cares.. have you heard church school at every 5 miles in massa?

we should have free temple schools every 5 kms... guiding top notch kids. bring back the old vedic math to counter the space age!

but i agree sauchalya first.
The 'church schools' there in plenty I agree. But they typically meet only on Sundays for 'bible study'.

It would be a good idea to have a similar setup in India for Hindus. But this should involve a diverse range of Hindu teaching.
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Re: Narendra Modi vs the Dynasty: Contrasting Ideas of India

Post by nawabs »

Can someone shed any light on the incident where sedition charges were leveled on Nandy by Gujarat gov for a piece he wrote regarding 2007 state elections? I am not being able to find that article.Few people here are quoting it to show how modi can't take criticism.
Last edited by nawabs on 20 Apr 2014 21:01, edited 1 time in total.
member_28108
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Re: Narendra Modi vs the Dynasty: Contrasting Ideas of India

Post by member_28108 »

Thanks. Can you plz explain how -

a) Is there a limit to how many recipients?
b) Do the recipients have to have a Google account?
c) Cost?[/quote]

https://support.google.com/hangouts/ans ... 1321?hl=en
should help.As far as I know standard SMS charges apply.
To send multiple SMS it sends it as multiple MMS.
You need a Google account to send the messages but the recipient should have a phone with SMS receiving capability which is the norm now.
Last edited by member_28108 on 20 Apr 2014 20:42, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Narendra Modi vs the Dynasty: Contrasting Ideas of India

Post by KLP Dubey »

Singha wrote:sounds like the rot with foreign funded NGOs is much deeper than we all think
All foreign assistance to Indian NGOs should be banned. When India's economy is in good shape, there will be more than enough capital and more than enough philanthropy in India to tackle important problems.
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Re: Narendra Modi vs the Dynasty: Contrasting Ideas of India

Post by vivek.rao »

IB eyes journalists
The IB is keeping an eye on eight to 10 such journalists with whom the Pakistani embassy is constantly in touch with. Of these, two are women who are working with an English news channel and are known for their aggressive journalism. The IB suspects that these journalists are more interested in showing the Pakistani point of view. So, they try to openly show Pakistan’s point of view through talk shows and news reporting. In the beginning the Pakistani embassy would stay in touch with them over email but when they were monitored, the embassy resorted to use courier companies. As a rule, these journalists get the point of view Pakistan wants. It is possible that in the days to come, some big journalists may trouble brewing for them.
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Re: Narendra Modi vs the Dynasty: Contrasting Ideas of India

Post by ramana »

niran and others on the ground.

Assessment from a deep lurker whom I respect:
I have never seen so much confusion on seat forecasts on either side and both sides are very nervous and there are valid reasons to that .So here are some of the main Blackbox mysteries :

1) First time voters . Lower middle class hindu voters torn between vote for development vs stay with herd issue . Middle class & above are 'sickular' votes= wasted votes .

2) Massive muslims vote consolidation. Contrary to reports , it has happened in UP and looks like its going to happen in Bihar .IM modules in Bihar not helping either giving Lalu the fodder ( Modi will arrest you all on false charges )

3) Undercurrent of Hindus getting consolidated in UP cutting cross the castes .Its extent will determine whether BJP is above 55 or remain below 30 ( can dip even to 20 )

4) BSP fortress looking shaky in UP in some parts but lately showing signs of breach being filled with news of Brahmins voting for BSP.

5) UP Brahmins are 'still' not so enthusiast for Modi , again an open secret . Biggest worry for Modi .

Each one of the above factors can rock NDA's boat one way or another . One thing everyone agrees on for NDA government to happen : look for trouble signs in UPA's safest seats . Normally in wave or times of uncertainty , candidates and their leader give maximum time to keep their safest seats safe .

So here are the numbers based on unofficial inputs for NDA ( excluding AIADMK /DMK/TMC ) before 16th May:

a) Near clean sweep of Gujrat + Rajasthan+ MP + Uttrakhand . 80+ is the ideal target . Anything below will be a shocker .

b) Haryana+ Delhi +Punjab + HP : Minimum 15-18 is number doing rounds . As per information based on INLD's post-election meeting of party office bearers in Delhi : in serious contention for 6-7 seats in Haryana .

c) Maharashtra : 25-30 for NDA at best and NCP gaining 10-12 seats . Congress in single digits . Rumors of Pawar-Modi agreement . Congress in single digits tally .

d) Jharkhand + Chattisgarh : 14 -18 minimum

e) Bihar : under 10 or above 25 . Muslims getting consolidated & rest of majority still clinging to caste-base voting.

f) UP : below 30 or above 55 .

g) Karnataka : anything above 5 will be a bonus for BJP

h) AP : Jagan will go with ruling alliance whether its NDA or anyone else = reason for TDP's heartburn . AP should give atleast 20-25 ( Jagan + Naidu combined ) .

i) Rest of India : anything above 0 is a bonus for BJP .

At minimum without AP : 175 on lower side . With AP's number, its 200 though possibility of TDP or Jagan coming with NDA -175 is very low but just for calculations . If things turn out good in UP & Bihar : 240 + . In short best case scenario for NDA is 240-250 . NDA'must' perform well in Bihar & UP (80+ in twin states ) for TDP/Jagan & Tamilnadu's party's to toe its line . Without that magic number its almost goodbye NDA .


{AP is the key no matter as the BRF thread title says}

Again all these numbers are based on 'absence' of Modi wave translating into votes if there is a pan-India Modi wave. I really hope that NDA gets majority but so far it looks unlikely . I would be glad to be proven utterly wrong .

As per one avid long time watcher : Muslim leaders are seeing this election as the last barrier in their path toward their ultimate goal for Hindustan . Minority of Hindus are seeing this as last chance for revival . Majority of Hindus have either become either dhimmis or wanna be dhimmis .Odds couldn't been higher than this . NDA goverment will be nothing sort of a God's miracle . Till then its Hanooz Dilli Dur Ast.
regards

Please all work to make the wave a reality.

ramana
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Re: Narendra Modi vs the Dynasty: Contrasting Ideas of India

Post by SanjayC »

As per one avid long time watcher : Muslim leaders are seeing this election as the last barrier in their path toward their ultimate goal for Hindustan . Minority of Hindus are seeing this as last chance for revival . Majority of Hindus have either become either dhimmis or wanna be dhimmis .Odds couldn't been higher than this . NDA goverment will be nothing sort of a God's miracle . Till then its Hanooz Dilli Dur Ast.
Reading the above, all one can say is that Hindus are their own worst enemies. Unable to see the larger picture, liberal with their enemies, harsh with their friends, lacking in foresight, unable to get out of narrow self-inflicted identities, totally lacking in wider knowledge of history or current affairs, extremely regional, unable to identify with other Hindus ... the future is bleak. Hindu women will suffer the most, as in the past, for the mental blindness of the Hindu male. For example, notice how many zombies are there on Twitter or TV singing peans about secularism, abusing RSS and BJP and Modi ... this when in maximum 20 years, Muslim thugs will be knocking on their doors and there will be a point of no return. They will get wisdom at the last moment when the dice is already cast, but that will be only their swan song.
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Re: Narendra Modi vs the Dynasty: Contrasting Ideas of India

Post by ramana »

SanjayC, We know all that. Whats the solution right now?
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Re: Narendra Modi vs the Dynasty: Contrasting Ideas of India

Post by Anantha »

http://mariawirthblog.wordpress.com/201 ... dangerous/

Meanwhile for the frogs in the well......Hitler... Nazi... bla bla... all the ingredients.
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Re: Narendra Modi vs the Dynasty: Contrasting Ideas of India

Post by SanjayC »

The medieval solution of slaughtering all Muslims (employed by Japanese emperors against Christians) is not acceptable in modern times, and neither should that be attempted by anyone because there is a certain level of humanity below which Hindus can never go (unlike the monotheists). Once a point is reached where Hindu civilization is about to be extinguished by Muslim hordes, the acceptable solution would ultimately be only one: increase military strength, capture Pakistan and Bangladesh again, ensure full transfer of population at gunpoint, thus fulfilling the unfinished agenda of 1947.

No other solution -- educating Muslims, making them wealthy, giving quota to them in Government -- will be practical as it won't address the ambition of Muslims of ghazwa e Hind. Moreover, it is impossible to impose family planning on them as they will never accept it. Out-breeding Hindus is the mainstay of their plan for capturing India. This out-breeding is non-negotiable for them and every Muslim shares this vision. In such a case, all soft solutions fail because demography is destiny. Hindus can do everything, but how will they turn the tide of increasing Muslim population?

Transfer of population is the only solution in future, just like Cyprus did. However, Muslims will demand more land in return (whole of West Bengal,, Assam North East and Kashmir) but Hindus should never agree to that. Most Muslims stayed back in India with a vision to claim more parts of India some time in the future, and when transfer of population happens, they will try to take a large chunk away to the banner of Islam. Simultaneously, some will try to stay back claiming no enmity with Hindus -- some Gandhi will emerge, allow them to stay back, and the cycle will be repeated.
Last edited by SanjayC on 20 Apr 2014 21:39, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Narendra Modi vs the Dynasty: Contrasting Ideas of India

Post by SaiK »

klp dubey ji.. my solution is like a modi starter for the solution ramana ji is seeking right now.

establishing setups first.. like:
- connect all temple la interstate road infra [with triple sauchalayas]
- all towns, villages, layouts, get 5km range temple school system [why only copy khaans, enlarge on that idea - make it full blown system - for all people - sect, caste, race, etc. - hindu dharma, hindu science, r&d.. you name it - every 5 kms - elementry, middle and high schools, colleges every 10 kms]. -- all free education. merit based /no brahmin shamin stuff - all are brahmins or none.
- get back to the parampara model as core, but enhanced and augmented for next gen thinking
- setup should be done in 5 years flat!
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Re: Narendra Modi vs the Dynasty: Contrasting Ideas of India

Post by Paul »

We need a break from above . Our left and right flanks, the Zoroastrian and Buddhist faiths have not proven to be strong enough to take on the Monotheistic faiths. To give an example, within 20 years of the Mohammad's death, Arab armies were breaking the Sun temple in Zabulistan in Afghanistan. SHows the hollowness of the Zoroastrian ideology which could not hold them off in Iran.

Since both Abrahmic faiths are united against us..some thing needs to happen to break their consensus. Christendom is now accomodating Islam on the high table.

Until then, the battle has to be fought on every nukkad, gram sabha and panchayat.
Last edited by Paul on 20 Apr 2014 21:53, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: Narendra Modi vs the Dynasty: Contrasting Ideas of India

Post by abhijitm »

ramana wrote:SanjayC, We know all that. Whats the solution right now?
allow more and more hindu modern schools. Take this example of Augustine Pinto, an education tycoon/mafia sponsored by G family runs christen schools across the country. In last 10 years he has established more than 70 schools.
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Re: Narendra Modi vs the Dynasty: Contrasting Ideas of India

Post by SanjayC »

^^^ All these solutions would fail over long term if Muslim population keeps increasing with time. What will you do when they are 40% -- and they are determined to reach this figure. It is only a matter of a few decades.
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Re: Narendra Modi vs the Dynasty: Contrasting Ideas of India

Post by SRoy »

SanjayC wrote:^^^ All these solutions would fail over long term if Muslim population keeps increasing with time. What will you do when they are 40%?
Then we will build more temples and connect them with even more wider expressways. :)
If this the limit of strategic thinking on BRF imagine what the common Hindu thinks.
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Re: Narendra Modi vs the Dynasty: Contrasting Ideas of India

Post by SRoy »

Also the dhoti shiver post from Ramana's lurker buddy is full of contradictions. Situation is not as bad as it painted to be.
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Re: Narendra Modi vs the Dynasty: Contrasting Ideas of India

Post by gandharva »

ramana wrote:SanjayC, We know all that. Whats the solution right now?
Break free of "Sarva Dharma Sambhava" handcuffs of Mahatma Gandhi and start questioning ideologies masquerading as religion.
Last edited by gandharva on 20 Apr 2014 21:55, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Narendra Modi vs the Dynasty: Contrasting Ideas of India

Post by chaanakya »

I am sure those are the views of those who are far from India. Debates on English News channels are not the Barometer of Election Heat. And now that I learnt about MuraliRavi analysing , not from within India, but coming home to see ground realities for himself, he is sure to revise his figure.

My take on those five points

1) First time voters . Lower middle class hindu voters torn between vote for development vs stay with herd issue . Middle class & above are 'sickular' votes= wasted votes .

First time voters : Majority would go NaMo
Women: Namo
Middle Class: Majority would go to NaMO

This time no sickular votes for congis.

2) Massive muslims vote consolidation. Contrary to reports , it has happened in UP and looks like its going to happen in Bihar .IM modules in Bihar not helping either giving Lalu the fodder ( Modi will arrest you all on false charges )

This was last hope of Congis. Rest assured that they are trying every trick in ther bag to secure consolidated Muslim Votes. But over last two years enough doubt has been sown in the minds of Muslims who see development as their saviour. SO there is split in many places esp in UP and Bihar. If you remember Nai Dunia, Madani and scores of others in last two years you will understand where I am going with his. NaMo on the other hand has assured by words and deeds to soothe their frayed nerves. So consolidation is not going to happen , on the contrary many would vote for him.

3) Undercurrent of Hindus getting consolidated in UP cutting cross the castes .Its extent will determine whether BJP is above 55 or remain below 30 ( can dip even to 20 )

Hindus , as sickular middle class and poor class are fed up with price rise and rampant corruption. This , they have identified as main cause of misery. Worried that UPA 3 means Doom 3. largely going to vote for lotus.

4) BSP fortress looking shaky in UP in some parts but lately showing signs of breach being filled with news of Brahmins voting for BSP.

BSP rule is yet to be forgotten despite the fact that they pale in comparison to SP. Brahmins don't vote just like a sheep heard. They vote tactically and this time it is for Namo.

5) UP Brahmins are 'still' not so enthusiast for Modi , again an open secret . Biggest worry for Modi .

Not true. Some cases here and there. but the situation is like , in a family of five with four voting members if one is staunch congis then he has no support in family from remaining four. Three goes to NaMo.


Congis are trying hard to see that Muslims and Biharis and Bhaiyyas of UP somehow don't vote for NaMO.

Namo is getting both positive and negative votes and response to his rallies , on the ground, is tremendous. For others it is paid crowd who wait for rallies to be over. For Namo crowd is insatiable. They want Namo to spend more tme. He does not give speech but converse with Crowd. None of them are paid. Rather they pay to come to his rally from far distance and listen and find hope in future.

may be I am too much of Namo Fan but truth is I was hoping BJP to loose 2004 and was distressed to think that it would win. Had a sigh of relief when results trickled down. But in retrospective I was wrong. Today , when My vehicle runs on smooth road at 140 KMPH ( well sometime) I think of ABV and NDA rule. They were not free of corruption but Conigs can't claim to be whiter then white. They have done this country in. Time to do them in. And that is what people of Bihar and UP would do. Last time AP saved them in 2009. This time they have dug their grave and jumped into it. We have to pour soil into it. And mind you many of my relatives are in both places. I openly deride them and say that by remaining in congis they have lost much of respect. They sheepishly grin and bear, bidding their time in 2019. Told to me by many a congis, one of them a CM. Biggest worry is if strong NaMo govt comes they may not be able to go to delhi for next twenty years.

If We fail now, India is doomed. May Dilbu Jinx work.
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Re: Narendra Modi vs the Dynasty: Contrasting Ideas of India

Post by RamaY »

As I spoke to real people (I called them & spoke to them) in AP there is a real Modi wave.

All BJP need to do is to get them to vote. That is the key. Now how to get people to vote all over AP.?

- print lakhs of "Citizens for Democracy" T-shirts for children 15-18yrs and have them go door to door asking people to go vote on polling day. This is the age group that needs jobs in next 5 years.
- Supply cold water (nothing exotic) and cold butter milk in BJP booths as it is high summer there. Lot of old people think better when they are take care before voting.
- Request cable services shut down during polling time (8AM-12NOON & 3-6PM). Or cancel all serials and advertisements for that day & just show local polling booths.
- Have Modi record a direct request in telugu (no dubbing) & send it to all phones & TVs etc.
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Re: Narendra Modi vs the Dynasty: Contrasting Ideas of India

Post by KLP Dubey »

I agree there is no room for complacency, but look at some of the items in your list:
ramana wrote:
b) Haryana+ Delhi +Punjab + HP : Minimum 15-18 is number doing rounds . As per information based on INLD's post-election meeting of party office bearers in Delhi : in serious contention for 6-7 seats in Haryana .

e) Bihar : under 10 or above 25 . Muslims getting consolidated & rest of majority still clinging to caste-base voting.

f) UP : below 30 or above 55 .
Item b): it looks like DL alone is delivering 6-7 seats and HJ 5-6 seats, so 20+ seems more realistic.

Item e): Under 10 is looking quite unrealistic right now, so above 25 is more likely.

Item f): Same as item e.

Nothing reliable has emerged so far that shifts me from my earlier prediction of 80-100 seats from UP and Bihar, 272+ for the BJP, and 300+ for the NDA.
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Re: Narendra Modi vs the Dynasty: Contrasting Ideas of India

Post by KLP Dubey »

gandharva wrote:
ramana wrote:SanjayC, We know all that. Whats the solution right now?
Break free of "Sarva Dharma Sambhava" handcuffs of Mahatma Gandhi and start questioning ideologies masquerading as religion.
I am full believer in SDS, but moon and cross are not "dharma" but "adharma" and hence are excluded. Messianism is completely antithetical to Dharma.
Last edited by KLP Dubey on 20 Apr 2014 22:04, edited 1 time in total.
chaanakya
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Re: Narendra Modi vs the Dynasty: Contrasting Ideas of India

Post by chaanakya »

KLP Dubey wrote:I agree there is no room for complacency, but look at some of the items in your list:
ramana wrote:
b) Haryana+ Delhi +Punjab + HP : Minimum 15-18 is number doing rounds . As per information based on INLD's post-election meeting of party office bearers in Delhi : in serious contention for 6-7 seats in Haryana .

e) Bihar : under 10 or above 25 . Muslims getting consolidated & rest of majority still clinging to caste-base voting.

f) UP : below 30 or above 55 .
Item b): it looks like DL alone is delivering 6-7 seats and HJ 5-6 seats, so 20+ seems more realistic.

Item e): Under 10 is looking quite unrealistic right now, so above 25 is more likely.

Item f): Same as item e.

Nothing reliable has emerged so far that shifts me from my earlier prediction of 80-100 seats from UP and Bihar, 272+ for the BJP, and 300+ for the NDA.
Looks like we are on the same page.
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Re: Narendra Modi vs the Dynasty: Contrasting Ideas of India

Post by ramana »

My key take away from that report is that AP is key and it will only support NDA if it crosses the threshold.
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Re: Narendra Modi vs the Dynasty: Contrasting Ideas of India

Post by rohitvats »

From Orbat.Com - http://orbat.com/

I wish so called intellectuals in this country had such clear thought process. But alas!

Posting in full:
Letter from reader KV on yesterday’s post about Narinder Modi, the next Indian PM I agree that Indian so-called liberal intellectuals wearing denigration of their own culture as badge of pride. I had many personal experience especially a jarring one where a Christian friend asked whether I joined a fanatical Hindu militant organization VHP just by spotting a copy of Bhagavat Gita on my desk. There seems to be some kind of unsaid understanding where Hindus are supposed to be closeted about being Hindus in India. This may be because exposure to standard Indian education system originating from Macaulay.

· Editor’s response I think most Indians are proud to be considered secular. But now many Indians are saying that secularism does not mean refusal to take pride in one’s own religion, in this case Hinduism. Secularism means accepting the other fellow too has a right to be proud of his religion. Let us meet peacefully and discuss our religions; let us leave firm in our own belief but with the total conviction that each has the right to practice his belief without interference.

· When westerners talk of “Hindu nationalism”, they are confused in part because we Indians have not been too clear. Hindu nationalism is mainly nationalism, plain and simple. Westerners are not used to nationalistic Indians, because their experience of us – correctly – that we can be kicked around by everyone and his dog. No one is calling Russians or Americans “Christian nationalists”, because we all understand nationalism extends beyond religion. It is the same for us Indians. It is true that Modi’s party, the BJP, has long appropriated religious symbols to advance its nationalistic agenda. But all the BJP may be saying is that nationalism does not presuppose atheism. When I write this, I am aiming as much at American intellectuals who denigrate Christianity. Why cannot one be a patriotic AND religious American? It is the same with the BJP.

· Ask for a moment why the BJP has, from the start, embraced religious symbols. For nine hundred years Indians – which meant Hindus – were crushed by foreign oppressors. First by Muslims, then by Christians. Bad as the Christian oppression was – and contrary to the Anglo-centered view of Indian history the Christian oppression was neither benign or uplifting – it pales in comparison to the Muslim oppression which ravaged India, its culture, its religion, its history. The Mongols devastated Eastern Europe but they left. Central Asian and Turkish Muslims destroyed India and stayed behind to feast off India’s corpse.

· Am I saying Islam is wicked? Of course not. No religion is wicked, it is the way it is practiced. Jesus taught the way of peace and brotherly love, his followers for the better part of two millennia used his name to use violence against anyone who stood in their path. Obviously Christianity was not wicked, its practioners were. It is the same with Islam. Indeed, the Sufi version of Islam is possibly the most enlightened and humane religion in the world.

· When Independence came, Indian Muslims created an us-versus-them situation – I acknowledge many Indians leaders made mistakes here, but that did not justify the bloody Partition based on religion that was forced by Muslims. Indians, like the Hebrews, have very long memories. The atrocities committed by Muslims against Indians – including Muslims – are permanently etched in the collective consciousness of Indians. Partition only reinforced those bad memories. And worse, since 1947 Muslims now living in what is called Pakistan, have spent their time trying to hurt India. But even this is not all. The rise of Islamic fundamentalism has hit India badly. And now Islamic fundamentalism has taken root in Bangladesh. For nearly seventy years foreign Muslims have been in a state of war with India.

· All that the so-called Hindu nationalists – I prefer the term nationalists with some on the Hinduvata fringe – are saying is: “Leave us alone. You have pushed us too far, too many times. We will not remain passive any more”. This doesn’t make Modi and his party Muslim haters. The BJP has ruled India before. What anti-Muslim actions did it take? None. And it turned out not to be particularly nationalistic either because honestly, us Indians tend to be passive. Nationalism requires asserting ourselves. We Indians would rather just see the day through peacefully, sleep in the assurance we will be alive tomorrow, live and let live. Peace toward all, ill-will toward none. That is real humanism.

· Please note I have said “Indians” and not “Hindus”. I believe I articulate what every Indian feels, regardless of his religion.

BTW, Editor has a Bible, not the Bhagvad Gita. He finds the Gita far too complex and sophisticated for his comprehension. He has tried and failed many times to understand it. Us Punjabi Americans tend to be on the simple side, intellectually. As far as Editor is concerned, there is nothing religious about the Gita. It is a guide to ethical living, and if one suffers for living ethically and doing one’s duty, so be it, because duty must be done without consideration of reward or praise. The Gita is very true Christian that way. Editor has a Bible from when he was in school: his education till college was in Christian schools. After KV’s letter, Editor is wondering: does his possession of a Bible make him a fundamentalist Christian?
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Re: Narendra Modi vs the Dynasty: Contrasting Ideas of India

Post by Rahul Mehta »

SanjayC wrote:
As per one avid long time watcher : Muslim leaders are seeing this election as the last barrier in their path toward their ultimate goal for Hindustan . Minority of Hindus are seeing this as last chance for revival . Majority of Hindus have either become either dhimmis or wanna be dhimmis .Odds couldn't been higher than this . NDA goverment will be nothing sort of a God's miracle . Till then its Hanooz Dilli Dur Ast.
Reading the above, all one can say is that Hindus are their own worst enemies. Unable to see the larger picture, liberal with their enemies, harsh with their friends, lacking in foresight, unable to get out of narrow self-inflicted identities, totally lacking in wider knowledge of history or current affairs, extremely regional, unable to identify with other Hindus ... the future is bleak. Hindu women will suffer the most, as in the past, for the mental blindness of the Hindu male. For example, notice how many zombies are there on Twitter or TV singing peans about secularism, abusing RSS and BJP and Modi ... this when in maximum 20 years, Muslim thugs will be knocking on their doors and there will be a point of no return. They will get wisdom at the last moment when the dice is already cast, but that will be only their swan song.
2014 election's outcome wont make much difference.

The elections are execllent opportunities to inform FACTS and PROPOSALS to commons. More the spread of information and proposals, better will be the long term outcome. But voting and results makes no major difference. We saw in 1998. And we that at state levels 10s of times.
ramana wrote:SanjayC, We know all that. Whats the solution right now?
Solution is NOT to waste time in NaMo-andh-bhakti, and spend time in DIRECTLY working for good law-drafts.

Because NaM0's approach is now clear --- he will handover India to MN-owners = FDI = USA to protect from Islamists. So USA will protect, but then EJs will takeover. So NaMo's approach of handing over India to FDI = USA = MNC-owners only postpones the death and in a way makes it worse. The ONLY solution that has been since 1950 is also valid now --- copy the administrative law-drafts USA has so that we also become as strong as USA. And run the temples the way Sikh run Gurudwara, but that too would need a law-draft. Rest is given in FB-notes.

NaMo has been least bad = best of all CMs. But he has tragically fallen short in many ways. eg not even 5% of students from Ahmedabad Municipal schools have managed to pass 12th class !! And NaMo could NOT increase number of courts from 700 to 7000 , something which can be done in 6 months. One can see the traffic in Ahmedabad, and see how traffic laws are openly flauted by to many scooterists, car drivers etc that anyone from USA will get shocked !! Scooterists go wrong side on crowded road in afternoon in front of cops, and there is no fear of anyone !! All this is because of --- laws are in bad shape.

Since 1950s, Indian nationalists activists wasted all their time in morning walks in shakha , and now they waste time dancing after wearing masks, and ignore the law-drafts. And so now we are in asituation, that NO leader in India dares to demand % of Hindus in census-2011. The whole nation is fiding FACTS from itself !!

====

Added later :
SanjayC wrote: Reading the above, all one can say is that Hindus are their own worst enemies. Unable to see the larger picture, liberal with their enemies, harsh with their friends, lacking in foresight, unable to get out of narrow self-inflicted identities, totally lacking in wider knowledge of history or current affairs, extremely regional, unable to identify with other Hindus ... the future is bleak. Hindu women will suffer the most, as in the past, for the mental blindness of the Hindu male. For example, notice how many zombies are there on Twitter or TV singing peans about secularism, abusing RSS and BJP and Modi ... this when in maximum 20 years, Muslim thugs will be knocking on their doors and there will be a point of no return. They will get wisdom at the last moment when the dice is already cast, but that will be only their swan song.
The biggest damage came because of BJP's leaders' decision since jan-2012 to suppress census-2011 religion\language % population numbers due to Saudi influence over BJP-leaders. (or can anyone give any better CT on why BJP-leaders didnt demand census-2011 religion/language data)? The census-2011 language/religion data would have convinced any activist, be from Congress or AAP that ww need to print law-drafts to stop Bangladeshis and need to print law-drafts to enforce 2 child policy on all.Sadly, nationalists also didnt ask for these numbers !! And BJP-leaders cooked up some chankian reasons to supress these data, and sadly activists got fooled by these BJP-leaders cock and bull reasons explaining merits of suppressing this data. The activists need to be told that at the end of the day, no Indian leader is going to be different from ABV and that MOST leaders will be like Pramod only. So activists need to focus on leaderless ways to improve India, rather than keep waiting for Kalkies.
Last edited by Rahul Mehta on 21 Apr 2014 11:41, edited 1 time in total.
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