Narendra Modi vs the Dynasty: Contrasting Ideas of India

SaiK · Post by **SaiK** » 21 Apr 2014 09:45

when $h!t happens, they will purge effectively!
but they need the switch to turn off the fans.

niran · Post by **niran** » 21 Apr 2014 09:46

chetak wrote: Easier to pay off the cable operators, kangress's tried and tested psyops methodology

you do that and fully expect to be maimed by customers at least in Cow belt. gone are the days
when cable was shut during riotins wagera.

RamaY · Post by **RamaY** » 21 Apr 2014 09:46

SanjayC wrote:Wary of Narendra Modi, Congress tells people to 'keep TVs switched off till Thursday'

Looks like Rahul Gandhi also lurks BRF and read my post and understood thus

RamaY wrote:Niran Bhai,
Can we see if Cable services can be shut down voluntarily to increase voting% in one of the constituencies on a trial basis? Will it help?

Dilbu · Post by **Dilbu** » 21 Apr 2014 09:51

Repent kafirs. Namo will lose onlee.

Prem · Post by **Prem** » 21 Apr 2014 10:07

Singha · Post by **Singha** » 21 Apr 2014 10:16

has the intense look of "Satya" (J D Chakravarthy) in the movie of that name.

not a man to be trifled with for sure.

johneeG · Post by **johneeG** » 21 Apr 2014 10:35

Hari Seldon wrote:
SanjayC wrote:Wary of Narendra Modi, Congress tells people to 'keep TVs switched off till Thursday'

Like janta will if they had a choice.

More likely, Cong will 'help' the process along by cutting electricity only.

chetak wrote: Easier to pay off the cable operators, kangress's tried and tested psyops methodology

If there is no electricity, no roads, no social media, no internet, no tv, no cable, no media,...etc then the dynasty can rule forever...like they do in Ameti. If there is electricity, roads, internet, ...etc, then NaMo will win...like he wins in Guj.

So, there are two models: Guj model and Ameti model.

R_Kumar wrote:
Raj Thackeray's CNN-IBN interview with Rajdeep Sardesai : (did not see this posted before.)
This is the worst example of both interviewee and interviewer.

I agree. But, I guess the interviewer is more at fault than interviewee because to conduct a good interview is the job of interviewer. If the interviewee becomes combative unnecessarily, then people will fault the interviewee only. But, if interviewer also becomes cheap and petty, then the whole interview looks more like quarrel than interview.

archan · Post by **archan** » 21 Apr 2014 10:54

Narendra Modi gets Ansari support in Varanasi
Something very very very fishy about this.

a_bharat · Post by **a_bharat** » 21 Apr 2014 10:56

There was some news about SG's health and cancellation of some of her rallies.
This sounds crude, but she can possibly stop Modi by kicking the bucket now and generating a sympathy wave for RG.

Hari Seldon · Post by **Hari Seldon** » 21 Apr 2014 10:59

a_bharat wrote:There was some news about SG's health and cancellation of some of her rallies.
This sounds crude, but she can possibly stop Modi by kicking the bucket now and generating a sympathy wave for RG.

I'm sure its on the bucket list of some mysterious phoren handlers onlee... /sarc off

That said, I doubt Maino's bucket kicks will help much at this stage. Sure, it'll create a media storm in a chai cup but thats about all. Rajiv's bucket got the INC a mainority govt, back in early 90s for example.

member_28352 · Post by **member_28352** » 21 Apr 2014 11:20

The Ansaris are an Azlaf caste whose primary occupation is weaving. All Benarasi sarees are woven by Ansaris in and around Benaras. Gujarat is a big market for these sarees. Mukhtar Ansari too is from this caste. Therefore it is not entirely out of the realm of possibility that he could support Modiji.

Hari Seldon · Post by **Hari Seldon** » 21 Apr 2014 11:23

'Punishing schedule' in politics redefined...

Singha · Post by **Singha** » 21 Apr 2014 11:30

^ most ITvity managers would get a heart attack on getting the above Outlook invite lol. for him, its just another day at the "office"

until reading it on brf recently, I was totally unaware of another later called Arzal below the Ajlaf.
from that account the gora skin worship of the congis right from JLN era is a clear continuation of the sultanate norms dating back to the first turkic rulers in delhi. as is the concept of durbars, imbecile princelings, large grants from a pleased ruler to favourite courtiers.........just the people and venue changed a bit...internal dynamics remained same

from wiki:

Stratification[edit]
In some parts of South Asia, the Muslims are divided as Ashrafs and Ajlafs.[14] Ashrafs claim a superior status derived from their foreign ancestry.[15]

Sections of the ulema (scholars of Islamic jurisprudence) provide religious legitimacy to caste with the help of the concept of kafa'a. A classical example of scholarly declaration of the Muslim caste system is the Fatawa-i-Jahandari, written by the fourteenth century Turkish scholar, Ziauddin Barani, a member of the court of Muhammad bin Tughlaq, of the Tughlaq dynasty of the Delhi Sultanate. Barani was known for his intensely casteist views, and regarded the Ashraf Muslims as racially superior to the Ajlaf Muslims. He divided the Muslims into grades and sub-grades. In his scheme, all high positions and privileges were to be a monopoly of the high born Turks, not the Indian Muslims.

Even in his interpretation of the Koranic verse "Indeed, the pious amongst you are most honored by Allah", he considered piety to be associated with noble birth. Barani was specific in his recommendation that the "sons of Mohamed" [i.e. Ashrafs] "be given a higher social status than the low-born [i.e. Ajlaf].[16] His most significant contribution in the fatwa was his analysis of the castes with respect to Islam.[16] His assertion was that castes would be mandated through state laws or "Zawabi" and would carry precedence over Sharia law whenever they were in conflict.[16]

In the Fatwa-i-Jahandari (advice XXI), he wrote about the "qualities of the high-born" as being "virtuous" and the "low-born" being the "custodian of vices". Every act which is "contaminated with meanness and based on ignominity, comes elegantly [from the Ajlaf]".[16] Barani had a clear disdain for the Ajlaf and strongly recommended that they be denied education, lest they usurp the Ashraf masters. He sought appropriate religious sanction to that effect.[13] Barani also developed an elaborate system of promotion and demotion of Imperial officers ("Wazirs") that was primarily on the basis of their caste.[16]

In addition to the Ashraf/Ajlaf divide, there is also the Arzal caste among Muslims, who were regarded by anti-Caste activists like as the equivalent of untouchables.[17][18] The term "Arzal" stands for "degraded" and the Arzal castes are further subdivided into Bhanar, Halalkhor, Hijra, Kasbi, Lalbegi, Maugta, Mehtar etc.[17][18][19] The Arzal group was recorded in the 1901 census in India and are also called Muslims “with whom no other Muhammadan would associate, and who are forbidden to enter the mosque or to use the public burial ground”. They are relegated to "menial" professions such as scavenging and carrying night soil.[20]

Castes in India[edit]
Some South Asian Muslims have been known to stratify their society according to Quoms.[25] These Muslims practise a ritual-based system of social stratification. The Quoms who deal with human emissions are ranked the lowest. Studies of Bengali Muslims in India indicate that the concepts of purity and impurity exist among them and are applicable in inter-group relationships, as the notions of hygiene and cleanliness in a person are related to the person's social position and not to his/her economic status.[21] Muslim Rajput is another caste distinction among Indian Muslims.

Some of the backward or lower-caste Muslim caste include Kunjra, Dhobi and Halalkhor. The upper caste Muslim caste include Qureshi,Shaikh Ansari, Syed, Pathan, Turk, Sheikh and Mallik.[22] Genetic data has also supported this stratification.[26]

The report commissioned by the government of India and released in 2006, documents the continued stratification in Muslim society.

===
and we all know the Ashraf through selectively marrying only Ashraf (if need be from TSP or even further afield like turkey) have managed to retain their physical looks and pure white skin for centuries now after the mughals vanished. they intend to keep it that way one thinks.

Hari Seldon · Post by **Hari Seldon** » 21 Apr 2014 11:32

Why the legal route may be tricky to net the dynasty and its minions...

krishnan · Post by **krishnan** » 21 Apr 2014 11:39

its a day dream thinking modi or anyone can even touch the dienesti, they have been in power for too long

Ashokk · Post by **Ashokk** » 21 Apr 2014 11:41

Prem Kumar wrote:Email sent a few hours ago. Awaiting reply. Thanks

Please to check e-khat saar.

Singha · Post by **Singha** » 21 Apr 2014 11:43

krishnan wrote:its a day dream thinking modi or anyone can even touch the dienesti, they have been in power for too long

but per my reading of low grade scifi horror, even witches and warlocks who jump from old body to young body and "live on" for a 1000 years are eventually trapped by someone during this vulnerable transfer phase and destroyed forever.

Vikas · Post by **Vikas** » 21 Apr 2014 11:46

Just came back from my sojourn of Delhi, Harayana, Amdavad and Mumbai. based upon my conversations with Cab drivers/Auto walahs/blue and white collared workers and even one Rickshaw-puller, Anyone calling it a Modi-wave is ignorant of ground realities.
It is as if there are 2 elections being contested, one by political class and their followers on the MSM and another on the street among common voting folks. The MSM elections among chateretti public is looking at 4 sided contest between BJP,Con-A,Con-B and Regional parties while the common man's election has only one person standing in these elections and that is Narendera Modi.
This man has the same impact as serials like Ramayana used to have. The whole India comes to stop and listens to him when he talks. There is not a single flaw in his armory and everyone I chatted with wanted to see him as PM. Who cares who is the local candidate and what caste he/she is from. It is as if Modi bhai standing from all the 543 constituencies. I had heard about 1984 elections where voters just wanted to vote for Congress, it is the same feeling here.
I think if even I stand in these elections on BJP ticket, I will win. Smart politicians switched sides and hopped onto Modi Bandwagon and most of them will reap benefits.

So this is not a simple wave. This is event of our life time which will change India forever.

archan · Post by **archan** » 21 Apr 2014 11:51

^ makes sense WRT what 5forty3 has also been observing. Ghee and shakkar onlee saar, keeping fingers crossed.

Dilbu · Post by **Dilbu** » 21 Apr 2014 11:52

Nahii.. Namo will lose onlee.

suryag · Post by **suryag** » 21 Apr 2014 11:59

a_bharat wrote:There was some news about SG's health and cancellation of some of her rallies.
This sounds crude, but she can possibly stop Modi by kicking the bucket now and generating a sympathy wave for RG.

What if after election SG goes out for treatment and then followed by beta and beti to take care of ailing mom never to return again?

krishnan · Post by **krishnan** » 21 Apr 2014 12:00

good , i will be happy

bhargava · Post by **bhargava** » 21 Apr 2014 12:01

^^ close the doors forever and do some shuddheekaran yagna

Dilbu · Post by **Dilbu** » 21 Apr 2014 12:05

Yeah we can dream on about things like that but the dark lord will not die that easily. His soul will be distributed among many horcruxes located all across the country in the form or regional parties, NGOs and foreign interests. Each and everyone will have to be found and destroyed. Not an easy task.

member_22539 · Post by **member_22539** » 21 Apr 2014 12:08

^Keep faith, it will be done. We never even tried before this. This is just the start.

member_20317 · Post by **member_20317** » 21 Apr 2014 12:18

archan wrote:Narendra Modi gets Ansari support in Varanasi
Something very very very fishy about this.

Everybody is trying to confuse the other's voters.

Kejri is meant to confuse/divide Hindu votes. The 'value based hindu voter' is targeted this way.

Just the same way this move is to confuse/divide the true Hindutva vaadi voter, so they begin to harbor doubts about Modi. What does the Hindu in you think about voting for NaMo after hearing this news? The results achieved, to the extent certain indicate the motives.

I am sure Amit Shah would be working overtime to return the favor. This is why you need professional politicians to do the job of politicking. Sooner the lay Hindutvavaadi understands this the better.

Lets see who wins.

Added Later : I would see this in the same light as the recent announcement in the MSM made by Syed Ali Shah Gilani. Or the earlier campaign by Kejri where they used to say 'Kejri for CM, NaMo for PM'. Or the 'support for Modi' by Raj Thakarey.

Paul · Post by **Paul** » 21 Apr 2014 12:20

OT....As I wrote in the Pakistan thread, Before partition the Ashrafs ruled the muslims of India ruled Indian Muslims through the Muslim league. After partition since the umma has been divided amongst three countries. Ashrafs have lost the power in Pakistan to the Pakjabis, and hold the power only in parts of India. After partition, there was a power shift in the subcontinental muslim leadership ( exemplified by Fatima Jinnah's loss to Ayub and MQM's rise in Pak ). This is why we had muslims from India telling Mush that they are happier in India and would prefer Pakistan leaving them to their devices. (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=951iB8zW_wE)

Ashrafs can dream of their glory days of the past, but the fact is that other communities within the
muslims are not going to hand back power to them on a platter..I think we should look at the Muslim votebank / Ashraf angle on a case by case basis in India. It is valid in Hyderabad and parts of UP but not in other parts. It is not applicable in Bihar as per Sanku's post.

Vikas · Post by **Vikas** » 21 Apr 2014 12:24

BSP fortress looking shaky in UP in some parts but lately showing signs of breach being filled with news of Brahmins voting for BSP.

Someone pls tell me who are these Brahmin voters who would waste their vote on BSP instead of voting for NaMo. I mean if you can't stand for someone defending your future generations from annihilation by hordes of RoP ravaging towns and villages, then I guess you deserve state of no job, no future, no money, costly food and no security for your girls.
Ask Jats who woke up and smelled the coffee after the riots.

Without getting into Caste divide of Ganga belt, What benefit would they accrue by voting for BSP in national election which they haven't till now ?
I guess sometimes we outsiders can't understand how the mind works in these belts.
Any vote for SP/BSP/TMC/JD/Commies/DMK/YSR in LS election is a vote for congress and further destruction of Bharat.

chaanakya · Post by **chaanakya** » 21 Apr 2014 12:25

VikasRaina wrote:Just came back from my sojourn of Delhi, Harayana, Amdavad and Mumbai. based upon my conversations with Cab drivers/Auto walahs/blue and white collared workers and even one Rickshaw-puller, Anyone calling it a Modi-wave is ignorant of ground realities.
It is as if there are 2 elections being contested, one by political class and their followers on the MSM and another on the street among common voting folks. The MSM elections among chateretti public is looking at 4 sided contest between BJP,Con-A,Con-B and Regional parties while the common man's election has only one person standing in these elections and that is Narendera Modi.
This man has the same impact as serials like Ramayana used to have. The whole India comes to stop and listens to him when he talks. There is not a single flaw in his armory and everyone I chatted with wanted to see him as PM. Who cares who is the local candidate and what caste he/she is from. It is as if Modi bhai standing from all the 543 constituencies. I had heard about 1984 elections where voters just wanted to vote for Congress, it is the same feeling here.
I think if even I stand in these elections on BJP ticket, I will win. Smart politicians switched sides and hopped onto Modi Bandwagon and most of them will reap benefits.

So this is not a simple wave. This is event of our life time which will change India forever.

Sort of confirms feedback. I am just short of calling it Super Tsunamo and not simply Tsunamo because of lack of confidence beyond 320. . All caste calculation will be washed away. And even congis should get some seats, no?

SRoy · Post by **SRoy** » 21 Apr 2014 12:27

^^

Rainaji

They are miffed because BJP is attracting OBC/SC and they are no longer the Hindutva thekedars. Such is the story of them and their caste folks in the entire GV right upto Bay of Bengal.

Dilbu · Post by **Dilbu** » 21 Apr 2014 12:34

Then they have to die the natural death. They will be culled by the same snakes they are feeding now.

member_28352 · Post by **member_28352** » 21 Apr 2014 12:37

The appeal to development can actually segment even the peaceful community on actual wants such as roti, kapda and makaan rather than on vacuous stuff like "ishlam khatre mein hain" which is primarily a means to keep the ashrafs in power. In that sense development is the masterstroke of Hindutva which can for the first time segment and divide the peaceful voters if it works.

KLNMurthy · Post by **KLNMurthy** » 21 Apr 2014 12:43

Gus wrote:
Anindya wrote:Shouldn't this be easy to turn around folks?

Modi gets more ‘NO’ votes than Justin Bieber in TIME magazine poll
Why? Who cares? What does it matter either way?

Show of strength?

niran · Post by **niran** » 21 Apr 2014 12:45

archan wrote:Narendra Modi gets Ansari support in Varanasi
Something very very very fishy about this.

the Ansari the ajai rai the sorabuddins are a tight knit community around here in UP and Bihar
just as a crow never bites a crow a mafiya will look out for fellow mafiya since the other one is against NaMo one has to be with NaMo
but today at two rallies NaMo for the first time articulate and promised his voters that

I come to clean the politics, will go through all the nomination papers and separate all those who have criminal cases pending according to the papers and will work with SC to finish all the cases within a year so that real criminal are out reelection takes place and new noncriminals are in.

this is a message to these people "NaMo spares no one."

Sumeet · Post by **Sumeet** » 21 Apr 2014 12:47

Amitabh Bacchan speaks about Narendra Modi to Rajat Sharma, India TV

chaanakya · Post by **chaanakya** » 21 Apr 2014 12:49

Mindspace of Indians is occupied by NaMo, Pappu has come out as incapable to think coherently, unable to speak clearly and afraid to lead when given Chance.

All calculations of Poll Pundits stop at the door of Polling Stations. What button common man is going to push inside the voting compartment, will be dictated by the hope for future and not by caste calculations. NaMo has given hope for future.

Vikas · Post by **Vikas** » 21 Apr 2014 12:55

A silent brooding Pappu was more helpful to congress.

pankajs · Post by **pankajs** » 21 Apr 2014 12:58

Pliss to be careful in reading too much in such reports .. only hard groundwork can payoff in the long-run .. still

Mayawati's BSP faces turmoil as core voters move away
http://www.dnaindia.com/india/report-ma ... ay-1980405

In a rather "silent" shift in the voting trend which could change the entire caste calculus of all parties in the long term, the Jatav/Chamar votebank, the rock hard support base of the Bahujan Samaj Party (BSP), seems to be moving away from Dalit icon Mayawati for the first time, gravitating towards the BJP under the influence of the 'Modi lahar' (wave).

Political analysts say this is unprecedented and marks perhaps the most important political event of this election. "I am also aware of this. But if it actually turns out to be true in the final analysis, it would be a watershed in not only UP but the country's politics," says senior political analyst Pradeep Kapoor.

Hari Seldon · Post by **Hari Seldon** » 21 Apr 2014 13:01

There's something called the theory of 'correlated preferences' in social networks. People (unknowingly?) tend to associate with people who share the same beliefs/preferences and value systems. This is best exemplified by the NYC socialite's statement in 2004, which made it to the NYT too, after GWB won his second term:

Nobody I know voted for George Bush. Then how come he still won?!?!

Similarly, while fervently hoping for a tsunamo and all, I remain lungi shivering about the folks outside our usual realm of interaction and experience.... Hence, confirmation from a source like 5forty3 is welcome, even though the anecdotal evidence we see on the dhaga is heartening too...

P.S.
Was hajaar happy when pagalika's interview of jatavs in a dalit village produced his gem:

Des ke liye Modi, prades ke liye behenji.

Made my day, that. If the jatav vote fractures, all bets are off only. In bihar, perhaps thanks to NM's direct appeal to the yadavs, reports of a yadav vote fracture also are doing the rounds only...

a_bharat · Post by **a_bharat** » 21 Apr 2014 13:05

VikasRaina wrote:
BSP fortress looking shaky in UP in some parts but lately showing signs of breach being filled with news of Brahmins voting for BSP.
Someone pls tell me who are these Brahmin voters who would waste their vote on BSP instead of voting for NaMo.

Brahmins have organizations that actively ask Brahmins to vote for Brahmins, irrespective of the party they represent. For example, in AP there is one Dhanwantari group to whose email list my email-id got added inadvertently and I keep getting their e-mails.

Brahmin votes go for viable Brahmin candidates or to candidates who don't belong to castes they don't like.

To be fair, this trait is also applicable to several other castes too.