Indian Naval News & Discussion - 12 Oct 2013

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tsarkar
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Re: Indian Naval Discussion

Postby tsarkar » 29 Apr 2014 12:16

The alleged miscreants are civilians employed at Naval Dockyard. The correct title should be Five MoD men...

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Re: Indian Naval Discussion

Postby member_23694 » 29 Apr 2014 20:50

The below two information

http://ajaishukla.blogspot.in/2014/04/m ... t-sub.html
which talks about future project 75I construction in India

and
http://articles.dailypress.com/2014-04- ... ipbuilding
The U.S. Navy on Monday awarded a $17.6 billion contract for 10 more Virginia-class, nuclear-powered attack submarines to General Dynamics and its major subcontractor, Huntington Ingalls Industries.


makes me think regarding the rational of manufacturing Project 75I subs in India for the following reason :
1. We can manufacture nuke subs now and gained expertise from Scorpene manufacture then what additional tech gain can be achieved
with indigenous manufacture of project 75I subs with some foreign TOT.
2. Manufacturing within the country will make the deal size much much bigger. Better would be to allow selected foreign vendor to manufacture an MKIsed version of the chosen sub at there location. This will reduce the cost and turnaround time for the subs.
3. If one of the best nuke attack subs could be purchased at around $2 billion a piece with bulk order, will the Indian Navy not receive
similar benefits . May be without TOT, the Indian navy may get ~9 MKIsed subs in quick time and say in ~$7-8 billion.
4. The Indian sub manufacturing facility works full throttle on additional Nuke subs.

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Re: Indian Naval Discussion

Postby srin » 29 Apr 2014 21:34

We are probably the first country to design+build a nuke sub before we designed+built an SSK. Arihant is not only our first nuke sub, it is also our first indigenous sub.

When a Virginia class sub is priced at $1.7b (using the above link), it doesn't count the amortized benefits that have been absorbed over decades. For instance, the make of the anechoic tiles, the shape of the propellers that reduce cavitation, make of the high strength and low magnetic steel for the hull, all of which require basic research where substantial investment has been made.

We aren't there yet - we need to either develop it ourselves or procure it from someone, so that is going to cost us.

TOT is an elaborate employment scheme. That doesn't mean we should throw away the Scorpene - we should build more and more, but can't rely on it. So - P75I with local manufacture won't add anything that we don't already have.

If we need to master the submarine tech, we need to *design* our own SSKs, our own SSNs and more Arihant class mini-boomers. It will be long and painful (see problems with Collins class SSK and Alfa class soviet SSN) but at the end of it, we will have made it.

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Re: Indian Naval Discussion

Postby member_23694 » 29 Apr 2014 22:15

srin wrote:So - P75I with local manufacture won't add anything that we don't already have.

Probably yes and that is the reason, to increase the navy's sub fleet numbers just buy off the shelf MKIsed subs manufactured abroad
which will take into account for all the below
srin wrote:amortized benefits that have been absorbed over decades. For instance, the make of the anechoic tiles, the shape of the propellers that reduce cavitation, make of the high strength and low magnetic steel for the hull, all of which require basic research where substantial investment has been made


which thus results in lower cost and in quick time. Simple

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Re: Indian Naval Discussion

Postby Sid » 30 Apr 2014 00:16

srin wrote:We are probably the first country to design+build a nuke sub before we designed+built an SSK. Arihant is not only our first nuke sub, it is also our first indigenous sub.



Arihant is being built with big assistance from Russian comrades. We still have some miles to go before claiming SSN/SSBN as Indian designs.

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Re: Indian Naval Discussion

Postby srin » 30 Apr 2014 09:43

Sid wrote:
srin wrote:We are probably the first country to design+build a nuke sub before we designed+built an SSK. Arihant is not only our first nuke sub, it is also our first indigenous sub.



Arihant is being built with big assistance from Russian comrades. We still have some miles to go before claiming SSN/SSBN as Indian designs.


Not being too sure of the nature of this assistance, I presume that they helped us with the nuclear reactor miniaturization and ensuring its safety and also silent running. They may also have helped us with the VLS underwater launch mechanism.

When you design something, you get to decide all the components. You get to know *why* you are making a design decision in a particular way. You test all of them separately and integrate them and test them again (harbour trials and sea trials) to ensure that the reality corresponds to the design parameters. Even if you procure off-the-shelf sonar and torpedoes, you still learn how to integrate all of them. Even if Russians assisted us with the reactor, we would know how to make more powerful sub reactors in the future. Because we earned the knowledge.

When you get TOT, you simply get to see how to assemble components to a finish product. You don't have the test data, you can't experiment with different metals for the hull ... nothing at all. So - I think ToT is an employment scheme.

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Re: Indian Naval Discussion

Postby Murugan » 30 Apr 2014 11:14

First IN Sumbmarine Kalavari Entering Mumbai 1968

Image

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Re: Indian Naval Discussion

Postby Philip » 01 May 2014 04:11

Nice pic of the Kalvari.I remember visiting it aeons ago in the dockyard when it was still in her warranty period.

An interesting snippet:
http://news.usni.org/2013/06/20/navy-de ... ng-torpedo
“Torpedoes are an often-unappreciated threat to surface ships,” he said.
“The usual countermeasures are noisemakers intended to decoy an approaching homing torpedo. Unfortunately the Russians use wake-following torpedoes that do not respond to the usual countermeasures at all.”

The Russian Type-53 torpedo includes sensors that detect the churn made by ships underway. Once the torpedo senses the chopped water it will follow a ship in a S-pattern between the wakes until it finds its targets.

“Anyone who buys Russian Kilo-class submarines — almost anyone the U.S. would come into conflict with — uses torpedoes which do not respond to U.S. torpedo countermeasures,” Friedman said.


Russia has heavily exported the Kilo diesel/electric submarine to Southeast Asia and the attack boat is a mainstay of navies in Vietnam, India and China.

The Chinese People’s Liberation Army Navy fields 12 Kilos with Soviet-era Type 53-65 wake homing torpedoes with a range of 11.8 miles, according to the soon to be released 16th edition of the Naval Institute Guide to Combat Fleets of the World.

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Re: Indian Naval Discussion

Postby aditya_d » 02 May 2014 08:36

INS KOLKATA ready for commissioning

With technological hurdles crossed, further delay was caused by a tragic accident on March 7, when a naval officer died while testing the Kolkata’s fire fighting system. Now, with investigations into that accident almost concluded, the decks are clear for INS Kolkata to join the fleet.

The two remaining destroyers of Project 15A will follow in short order. By October the second of the class, INS Kochi, is slated to be delivered. INS Chennai will follow her in mid-2015.

Project 15A will eventually cost the navy Rs 11,662 crore. At Rs 3,900 crore per destroyer, that is barely one-third what the UK’s Royal Navy has paid for its new Type-45 Daring-class destroyers --- Rs 11,000 crore per vessel.

Yet many regard the Kolkata as more versatile and capable than the Daring. Alongside the world-beating LR-SAM, the Kolkata’s 16 Brahmos supersonic cruise missiles allow pinpoint strikes on enemy ships and land targets as far away as 295 kilometres.

Besides anti-air, anti-ship and anti-surface capabilities, Project 15A destroyers are also potent anti-submarine platforms. New generation HUMSA hull-mounted sonar, supplemented with the Nagan active towed array sonar --- both developed by the DRDO and built by Bharat Electronics Ltd (BEL) in India --- are adept at picking up enemy submarines, especially in Indian waters with their distinctive temperature gradient. The destroyer can then engage them with heavy torpedos at ranges out to 100 kilometres, or with an Indigenous Rocket Launcher (IRL) built by Larsen & Toubro.

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Re: Indian Naval Discussion

Postby Austin » 02 May 2014 08:52

^^ From the report

Even so, the Kolkata is being delivered only with missile launchers fitted, while the 64 missiles that form the ship’s complement will be added later.


Looks like P-16A Redux

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Re: Indian Naval Discussion

Postby Suraj » 03 May 2014 02:29

The article also says:
Interestingly, the Kolkata-class is almost 2,000 tonnes heavier than its predecessor --- the Project 15 Delhi-class destroyers --- because of its heavier armour plating. Despite that, it moves as fast as the Delhi-class, propelled by the same Ukrainian turbines. This, say MDL engineers, indicates how much they have improved its propulsion system.

Clearly a lot heavier than the 7200 tonnes mentioned. I know others have posted that it was likely to be much heavier anyway, but Shukla gives an actual number - ~8200 tonnes, since the Delhi class is listed at 6200 tonnes.

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Re: Indian Naval Discussion

Postby Karan M » 03 May 2014 03:30

>>>Besides anti-air, anti-ship and anti-surface capabilities, Project 15A destroyers are also potent anti-submarine platforms. New generation HUMSA hull-mounted sonar, supplemented with the Nagan active towed array sonar --- both developed by the DRDO and built by Bharat Electronics Ltd (BEL) in India --- are adept at picking up enemy submarines, especially in Indian waters with their distinctive temperature gradient.

If confirmed, this is a first, we finally have our own towed array sonar. IIRC we had also ordered Thales ATAS for Delhi and Shivalik class.


And:
>>>The LR-SAM shoots down incoming anti-ship missiles (ASMs) at ranges out to 70 kilometres, protecting the ship far more effectively than the Kashmir. But it has only been operationalised now after India’s Defence R&D Organisation (DRDO) and Israel Aerospace Industries (IAI), working in partnership, overcame persistent technological challenges

Which is good news - the system is finally ready for integrated trials and induction.

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Re: Indian Naval Discussion

Postby John » 03 May 2014 05:50

Nice to see my displacement and cost prediction were close to the mark :D

Added interested info about 64 missiles when models seem to show only 32?
Last edited by John on 03 May 2014 06:14, edited 2 times in total.

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Re: Indian Naval Discussion

Postby srai » 03 May 2014 05:53

2 x P-15 & 1 x P-15A side by side top view:

Image

Another top view next to Kirvak:

Image

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Re: Indian Naval Discussion

Postby John » 03 May 2014 21:00

Good pictures notice from that image the main gun appears smaller than Ak-100 in Delhi class clear indication that it is Oto SR mm not Oto-120mm.

aditya_d wrote:Project 15A will eventually cost the navy Rs 11,662 crore. At Rs 3,900 crore per destroyer, that is barely one-third what the UK’s Royal Navy has paid for its new Type-45 Daring-class destroyers --- Rs 11,000 crore per vessel.

Cost were kept lower compared to Daring class thanks in part to using Barak-8 and MF-Star which cost much less than Aster-30/Sampson combination. Also it looks like using the same propulsion system as Delhi further contributed to cost savings, take for example P-17s with GE gas turbines cost around 2500 crore and latter contributed to good portion of cost escalation.

As i said couple years ago these DDGs will be the biggest non Aegis destroyers in Asia.

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Re: Indian Naval Discussion

Postby vaibhav.n » 05 May 2014 08:44

The most interesting naval uniform in recent times.......Navy Boys trying to scare the MoD Bureaucracy from a distance.

Image

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Re: Indian Naval Discussion

Postby PratikDas » 05 May 2014 19:52

vaibhav.n wrote:The most interesting naval uniform in recent times.......Navy Boys trying to scare the MoD Bureaucracy from a distance.

Commander-in-Chief Strategic Forces Command Vice Admiral SPS Cheema with Flag Officer Commanding-in-Chief Eastern Naval Command Anil Chopra in Visakhapatnam on Friday.


HT: http://www.thehindu.com/news/cities/Vis ... 407755.ece

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Re: Indian Naval Discussion

Postby Singha » 06 May 2014 11:43

one looks fwd to a TV feature of the P15A on exercise incl firing all weapons. just the SAMs blasting out and then arcing away to target bearing should be worth the price of ticket.

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Re: Indian Naval Discussion

Postby ramana » 06 May 2014 20:44

INS Arihant getting ready?

tushar_m

Re: Indian Naval Discussion

Postby tushar_m » 06 May 2014 20:53

I hope that SFC is there to witness the launch prep for K15

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Re: Indian Naval Discussion

Postby saje » 06 May 2014 21:32

tushar_m wrote:I hope that SFC is there to witness the launch prep for K15


And apparently he was not the only one planning to witness the launch...

http://www.deccanchronicle.com/140506/nation-crime/article/tamil-nadu-cops-say-isi-planning-strike-visakhapatnam-navy-base

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Re: Indian Naval Discussion

Postby titash » 07 May 2014 05:06


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Re: Indian Naval Discussion

Postby Cosmo_R » 07 May 2014 15:38

Hoo boy! autocorrect problems only I hope:

The 44,500—tonne Admiral Robin Dhowan procured from Russia at a cost of USD 2.33 billion had arrived in India in January this year and is stationed at its home—base in Karwar in Karnataka.

http://www.thehindu.com/news/national/i ... epage=true

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Re: Indian Naval Discussion

Postby JTull » 07 May 2014 17:31

Cosmo_R wrote:Hoo boy! autocorrect problems only I hope:

The 44,500—tonne Admiral Robin Dhowan procured from Russia at a cost of USD 2.33 billion had arrived in India in January this year and is stationed at its home—base in Karwar in Karnataka.

http://www.thehindu.com/news/national/i ... epage=true


Cheers!

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Re: Indian Naval Discussion

Postby sohamn » 07 May 2014 22:39

another conspiracy by UPA to change the name of Vikram. NDA should protest to the election commission. :D :D

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Re: Indian Naval Discussion

Postby sum » 09 May 2014 14:37

Not again!! :eek:
14:37 INS Ganga was commissioned in 1985: The fire on board the INS Ganga at the Naval dockyard in Mumbai comes in the wake of Chief of Naval Staff Admiral R K Dhowan saying yesterday that the Indian Navy has taken a 'serious note' of the recent accidents involving its submarines and the probe reports are in different stages.

The INS Ganga (F22) is a Godavari-class guided-missile frigate of the Indian Navy. Built in Mumbai by Mazagon Dock Limited, she was commissioned on 30 December 1985.

INS Ganga along with INS Godavari and INS Shakti were deployed to Mogadishu in December 1994 to support the withdrawal of the Indian Army's 66 Brigade, including the 2nd Battalion, Jammu & Kashmir Light Infantry.
14:31 Fire aboard frigate INS Ganga; three injured: Just in: Fire aboard frigate INS Ganga; three injured. Three persons, including a sailor, injured in a minor fire onboard INS Ganga at Naval Dockyard in Mumbai. Details awaited.

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Re: Indian Naval Discussion

Postby uddu » 09 May 2014 15:43

Nearly thirty year old ship. Time for decommissioning and replaced by a modern one. Now where is the replacement?

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Re: Indian Naval Discussion

Postby Yogi_G » 09 May 2014 17:06

This only goes to show that old equipment is at fault for all the troubles, blame which should go to the defence minsters (NDA ones included). Not for chiefs to accept blame and retire. Fire AK Antony now!!

If only def.ministers could be court-martialled.

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Re: Indian Naval Discussion

Postby Aditya_V » 09 May 2014 17:06

Read recently that the US has not supported MMS inspite of USD 10 Billion purchases as committed the 123 agreement. Thats why we ordered C-17, C-130J at pretty hefty prices.

I feel the really good deal with US was for the purchase of P-8I's

I hope with the funds crunch plus defence shipyard delays IN will be able to mordenise quickly and update surface and sub surface fleet.

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Re: Indian Naval Discussion

Postby Hemanth » 09 May 2014 19:45

sum wrote:Not again!! :eek:
...
14:31 Fire aboard frigate INS Ganga; three injured: Just in: Fire aboard frigate INS Ganga; three injured. Three persons, including a sailor, injured in a minor fire onboard INS Ganga at Naval Dockyard in Mumbai. Details awaited.


Old ship but still.. Anyway, this looks like a minor mishap.

Fire Breaks Out in Naval Ship, Four Hurt
Four persons, including two Navy personnel, suffered minor injuries after a fire broke out onboard INS Ganga during a routine maintenance and refit work at the Naval Dockyard here today.

This is the 15th mishap onboard a naval vessel in the past ten months.

While naval sources said the incident took place at around 11.15 this morning when some welding work was underway, an official statement denied that there was a fire, and added that all the four personnel were discharged from the hospital after "precautionary check-up".

"The welding gun took time to ignite and when it did, thick flames erupted from the gun, injuring four people including two civilians," the sources said.

"It was a minor accident in which four people sustained burns. They were taken to the naval dispensary for first-aid and were discharged later," the sources added.

An official statement from the Navy described the incident as "a loud noise in the boiler room" while the ship was in the dry-dock undergoing repairs and refit.

"The cause of the loud noise is possibly due to gas accumulation. There has been no fire or any damage to any equipment in the ship," it said.

Two sailors and two civilian dockyard workers were taken to hospital, only for precautionary check-up, and were immediately discharged and the situation was normal, it added.

INS Ganga had been deployed in the Gulf of Eden in 2012 to protect merchant ships from attacks of Somali pirates.

The Indian Navy has witnessed a spate of mishaps in the past ten months, which led to Chief of Naval Staff Admiral D K Joshi to resign in February.

Two Navy personnel were killed and seven sailors were injured in the fire onboard Russian made submarine INS Sindhuratna on February 26.

On August 14 last year, there was an explosion on the Russian-made Kilo-class submarine INS Sindhurakshak. Of the eighteen Navy personnel including three officers who were on board, bodies of only eleven personnel were found.

http://news.outlookindia.com/items.aspx?artid=840248

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Re: Indian Naval Discussion

Postby chetak » 10 May 2014 01:18

saje wrote:
tushar_m wrote:I hope that SFC is there to witness the launch prep for K15


And apparently he was not the only one planning to witness the launch...

http://www.deccanchronicle.com/140506/nation-crime/article/tamil-nadu-cops-say-isi-planning-strike-visakhapatnam-navy-base


Arihant is the target onlee.

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Re: Indian Naval Discussion

Postby Philip » 12 May 2014 03:09

Finally some pro-active naval diplomacy to thwart the Chinese!

http://www.haveeru.com.mv/news/54760
India offers to build naval dockyard in Maldives
Ali Naafiz, Haveeru Online
May 10, 2014

India has offered to build a naval dockyard worth more than MVR7.7 billion in the Maldives, Indian media reported on Friday.

The Deccan Herald newspaper said that China has already offered to build the dockyard at the Maldivian Coastguard's Uthuru Thilafalhu base. But Indian army chief General Bikram Singh, who is currently in the Maldives, has discussed about the project with the Maldivian leadership in order to "tilt the balance in India's favour," the newspaper said.


"... the dockyard will have space for naval ships as well as berthing slots for commercial vessels," the report read.

The Uthuru Thilafalhu lagoon is being reclaimed and developed as the Maldivian Coastguard's primary operations base. A harbour and a mosque had already been established at the base.

[b]According to separate media reports, Singh and the Maldives National Defence Force (MNDF) leadership discussed the Maldives’ request for more choppers, Dornier aircrafs, radars, fast-attack craft, amphibious landing craft and small arms from New Delhi.
[/b]
Another demand is to train 40-60 MNDF officers in Indian training institutes, the reports said.

General Bikram arrived in the Maldives on Thursday.

The first Indian army chief to visit the Maldives since then army chief General Deepak Kapoor's visit in February 2010, Bikram had met with President Abdulla Yameen Abdul Gayoom, defence minister Mohamed Nazim and his Maldivian counterpart Ahmed Shiyam.

Maldives and India have enjoyed close defence cooperation over the years, with India gifting the Maldives with two helicopters and a landing craft, and proving many training opportunities for Maldivian soldiers.

tushar_m

Re: Indian Naval Discussion

Postby tushar_m » 12 May 2014 07:23

Some pic of INS Arihant has surfaced (someone said its the 2nd sub arindman not arihant in another forum)


Image


a hump is now clearly visible which was not in the earlier pics

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Re: Indian Naval Discussion

Postby Philip » 12 May 2014 17:58

Are there any clearer pics? The hump was carefully airbrushed out of the launch function pics.,but similar silos that could carry 3+ missiles were observed in the latest Russian sub designs.There is a smooth sloping transition from the rear of the sail towards the bow.Compared with the Chinese SSBNs,which have a large "turtleback",the ATV's hump is far smoother and would create far less drag and acoustic signals underwater.

Some news about the Vik-A.The Vietnamese navy have chosen the Palma CIWS system for their Gepard frigates from Russia,an improvement upon the Kashtan.The SA-19 SAMs have a range of 10km.These could've been fitted to the VIK-A for the CIWS role apart from the B-8s tpo come later.
Wik
The combination of the missiles and guns, provides more comprehensive protection when compared to other CIWS utilising either missiles or guns only. The system's combined kill probability is 0.96 to 0.99.[1]


http://www.dnaindia.com/india/report-in ... on-1987239

INS Vikramaditya awaits induction
Monday, 12 May 2014

Country's biggest warship, INS Vikramaditya, is still awaiting its formal induction into the Indian Navy after five months of its arrival into Indian waters.

According to top government officials, impressed with its maritime capabilities, the outgoing prime minister, Manmohan Singh, had expressed his desire to spend a day on board the 44,500-tonne aircraft carrier procured from Russia. Sing along with the defence minister AK Antony was scheduled to dedicate the warship to the nation in the last week of March in a mega ceremony. But, the declaration of general elections and subsequent implementation of model code of conduct had put brakes on the scheduled programme of the UPA-II government. The defence ministry led by AK Antony first wanted to take clearance from the Election Commission to organise the event. But later on decided to leave it to the next government.

The $2.3 billion INS Vikramaditya was handed over to Indian Navy on November 16, 2013 at Sevmash, a Russian port. The warship arrived in Karwar on January 7 after 40 days of voyage. Since then, the warship has been stationed in Karwar naval base in Karnataka, but without adequate air defence guns for any protection against aerial attacks. However, the naval sources claim that the aircraft carrier always moves in a carrier battle groups, escorted by warships with all air defence weaponry. Refit of air defence guns on the aircraft carrier will take place soon.

"Yes, the formal induction of INS Vikramaditya has been delayed. But, the aircraft carrier is now capable of its full deployment. Fighter aircraft such as MiG 29 have embarked and being flown by Indian naval pilots. So far, we have trained 10 MiG 29 naval pilots, who have been trained to operate from INS Vikramaditya,"said an officer.

INS Vikramaditya has an overall length of about 284 metres and a maximum beam of about 60 metres, stretching as much as three football fields put together. Standing about 20-storey tall from keel to the highest point, the sheer sight of this 44,500-tonne mega structure of steel is awe inspiring. The ship has a total of 22 decks. With over 1,600 personnel on board, Vikramaditya is literally a 'Floating City'.

The ship has the ability to carry over 30 aircraft comprising an assortment of MiG 29K/Sea Harrier, Kamov 31, Kamov 28, Sea King, ALH-Dhruv and Chetak helicopters.

INS Vikramaditya is a Kiev class aircraft carrier which was commissioned by Russian Navy in 1987 under the name Baku. It was later renamed as Admiral Gorshkov and last sailed in 1995 in Russia, before being offered to India.

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Re: Indian Naval Discussion

Postby John » 13 May 2014 08:09

Philip wrote:Some news about the Vik-A.The Vietnamese navy have chosen the Palma CIWS system for their Gepard frigates from Russia,an improvement upon the Kashtan.The SA-19 SAMs have a range of 10km.These could've been fitted to the VIK-A for the CIWS role apart from the B-8s tpo come later.

Kashtan has been replaced by Kashtan-M which IN turned down and Palma is not superior to the latter or even the former for that matter. It has only 8 missiles no reload magazine and they are laser guided. Palma itself has no search radar or guidance radar uses EO. Granted these limitations keep cost down and in fact can be fitted in place of Ak-630 since it requires no deck penetration (unlike Kashtan). IMO it is good replacement for Ak-630 but unless we get license production it is likely gonna cost to much for IN and VLS is the main reason IN is going with Barak not Kashtan-M for Vikramaditya.

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Re: Indian Naval Discussion

Postby Singha » 13 May 2014 13:59

the hump section seems to be around 5 feet tall comparing to size of people atop the sail.

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Re: Indian Naval Discussion

Postby tsarkar » 13 May 2014 16:59

The larger photo is highly compressed horizontally. The smaller photo is more accurate but might not be the actual.

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Re: Indian Naval Discussion

Postby Philip » 13 May 2014 19:07

Exactly John.A cheaper alternative until B-8 comes,easier to install. It would give the carrier an interim defence capability.I'm not sure why we need to manufacture the same here,unless the system is to be used on several warships.However,will the Vik-A now sport both B-1 and B-8? It still needs a CIWS system,at least combination of B-1 and the ADGs as on the DDGs.

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Re: Indian Naval Discussion

Postby John » 13 May 2014 19:26

Importing gun mounts will cost more than locally building them or even putting together from kits, at least that is how it has been for artillery. Russians do have a lot of interesting CIWS gun systems Ak-630 dual, Palma, Palash, Kashtan-M there was even Naval Pantsyr which was in development.

Back to IN i understand Vikramaditya will have only Barak-1 and Ak-630 gun mounts, Vikrant will have Barak-8 and i know old models sported it having Oto SR.

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Re: Indian Naval Discussion

Postby Prem » 15 May 2014 08:44

Scorpene submarines to join fleet without torpedoes
Mundu Mendak Gatih

Alongside a three-year delay in adding six new Scorpene submarines to its depleting ranks, the Indian Navy faces an even more disquieting prospect --- the Scorpenes will start joining the fleet in 2016 without their main weapon, the heavyweight torpedo.Submarines carry two major weapons --- missiles against ships and land targets, and torpedoes to sink enemy ships and submarines. Missiles can be intercepted by anti-missile systems; and they inflict less damage. Torpedoes are harder to intercept and they blast holes below the waterline that quickly flood their targets, sinking them.Inexplicably, the ministry of defence (MoD) has failed to buy torpedoes to arm the Scorpenes it contracted for in 2005. In 2008, after a global tender, Italian company WASS was selected to supply their Black Shark torpedoes that were specifically engineered for the Scorpene. In 2011, a price was finalised: about $300 million for 98 torpedoes. Yet, even today, the contract remains unsigned.
Consequently, when
the first Scorpene submarine is commissioned in 2016, it will be armed only with the Exocet anti-ship missile. Were it to be challenged by Pakistan’s silent new Khalid-class submarines --- the French Agosta-90B --- the Scorpene will have empty torpedo tubes. Even if the new government signs the contract quickly, delivery would be unlikely before 2017.
The MoD did not respond to Business Standard’s emailed questions.A top-level navy planner laments the MOD’s lack of accountability, contrasting it with how former navy chief, Admiral DK Joshi, took responsibility for warship accidents and resigned. Says the naval officer: “If a military person were responsible for commissioning a Rs 4,000 crore submarine without its primary armament, he would be charged with dereliction of duty.”The delay in signing the torpedo contract followed accusations that WASS had won unfairly, a tactic commonly used by arms vendors who are confident the MoD will suspend the contract and order investigations. Eventually, Defence Minister AK Antony referred the matter to the Central Vigilance Commission, which found no indication of wrongdoing. Even so, the MoD continues to stonewall.The prospect of an unarmed Scorpene has sent alarm bells through a navy that is down to just 11 submarines, against a minimum of 18 that naval planners require for safeguarding India’s maritime interests. Of 14 submarines in the fleet, three Russian Kilo-class vessels are unavailable: INS Sindhurakshak was destroyed in a cataclysmic explosion in Mumbai last August; INS Sindhuratna will take a year to repair after a fire in February. A third, INS Sindhukirti, was scuttled by Hindustan Shipyard Ltd, Visakhapatnam (HSL), which dismantled the submarine for refit in 2006 but cannot put it back together again.
The navy is furious that a Rs 1,500 crore frontline submarine was lost because the MoD insisted on providing work to HSL, a public sector shipyard without expertise in submarine repair.Disregarding this experience, the MoD now insists that HSL builds one of the six new submarines being procured under the Rs 50,000 crore Project 75I. Cabinet sanction is being obtained for two to be built abroad and four in India --- one in HSL and three in an unspecified shipyard, probably Mazagon Dock Ltd, Mumbai (MDL). A senior admiral observes wryly, “INS Sindhukirti has already been destroyed by HSL. Now let us see whether it reduces Project 75I from six submarines to five.”Building Project 75I in two Indian shipyards would also mean paying double for transfer of technology (ToT) --- which includes supervisors, instructors, special tools, jigs, etc. In the Scorpene contract, MDL paid Rs 6000 crore for ToT. This would more than double if Project 75I is shared between two Indian shipyards.
Even so, the die seems cast. .The MoD took over HSL from the Ministry of Shipping in Feb 2010, a white elephant that the latter was glad to forego. The Rajya Sabha was informed on August 24, 2011 that HSL had accumulated losses of Rs 930 crore and a negative net worth of Rs 628 crore.he MoD is stonewalling another measure that the navy believes essential for overcoming the submarine shortage. With the Scorpene and Project 75I delayed, the navy has proposed extending the service life and providing a mid-life upgrade to the existing submarines, which have exceeded the dives and hours of service that manufacturers prescribe. That proposal has lain with the MoD for six months now, while the submarine fleet becoming increasingly more hazardous to operate.


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