Priority Defence decisions for the new govt.

rakall · Post by **rakall** » 19 May 2014 21:05

nash wrote:not sure it will be relevant to this thread but here is the link

http://www.narendramodi.in/form/

where people can register and might get chance to share their thoughts.

Another excellent suggestion by B.Raman. Some guys do good for the country till their last breath in every capacity..

"B.RAMAN ‏@SORBONNE75 May 28
NaMo shd start a pan-India website to invite ideas for BJP manifesto---internal security,strategic matters,Eco security,poverty removal"

rakall · Post by **rakall** » 19 May 2014 21:14

NRao wrote:
"NSA under NaMo--Shyam Saran; ISA--Prakash Singh;National int Adviser---Doval
3:38 AM - 28 May 2013"

Look at the date.. and the PM choice. RIP B.Raman
Former Intelligence Bureau chief Ajit Doval meets Narendra Modi

Things rolling along nicely.. Another guy in the frame for NSA is Sibal... Not the idiot Kapil Sibal (apologies to Kapil Sibal's fans, IF ANY). Kanwal Sibal.

Intelligence community will have fun for the next 5yrs.. Already, reports that many sleeper cells of SIMI & IM have activated in the last few days..

Aaryan · Post by **Aaryan** » 19 May 2014 22:48

Let me post my take on next govt
Finance- Arun Shourie
Defence- Rajnath Singh
MEA- Arun Jaitely
Commerce -Swami
HRD - Shusma
NSA- G Parthsarthi
Dy NSA ( internal security)- Ajit Doval.
Not sure about Home Ministry..

rakall · Post by **rakall** » 19 May 2014 22:56

Aaryan wrote:Let me post my take on next govt
Finance- Arun Shourie
Defence- Rajnath Singh
MEA- Arun Jaitely
Commerce -Swami
HRD - Shusma
NSA- G Parthsarthi
Dy NSA ( internal security)- Ajit Doval.
Not sure about Home Ministry..

If Rajanth takes Defence, Home likely to be "Narendra Modi".

BTW - why the hell are we doing discussing cabinet posts.. Thats that job of Burkha dutt & Nira Radia.

Philip · Post by **Philip** » 20 May 2014 01:20

Tx Br.W This raises the Q of our NCW capability and specialised EW/ELINT assets.How robust they are. There was a report about the USN getting its 100th Growler.Of course with 10/11 carriers and each carrying between 60-100 aircraft,one can understand its large requirement when they have to operate in hostile waters and airspace. While our AWACS/AEW development seems to be on course,a similar Flanker variant could be developed,which will have the range and air defence capability to accompany strike ops.

Ankit Desai · Post by **Ankit Desai** » 20 May 2014 02:22

BJP manifesto as well other reports say HM will be without internal security. Internal security will be under PMO. In that case Rajnath is reluctant to head HM.

I personally prefer Modi or Jaitely to head DM. No need to explain about why Modi while Jaitely is other only person I can find in BJP who won't let babus play with him. Rajnath being dhoti chaap I have doubt on him. Sushma is more like NGO kind, she will screw DM more. Arun Shouri is another name going around for Finance Minister and he has experience under Vajpaye so Jaitely can be Foreign Minister.

-Ankit

RoyG · Post by **RoyG** » 20 May 2014 04:27

I am thinking that since external affairs is being merge with ministry of corporate affairs, Jaitely may be a good fit.

Shourie in that case should definitely head finance.

Chandra will be a good fit for NSA.

Internal security under PMO will be good. Amit Shah + Doval would make a potent team.

Overall, I am impressed with Modi's style. Very Mauryan like.

brar_w · Post by **brar_w** » 20 May 2014 05:52

Shourie - Commerce minister, Jaitley - Finance Minister, Modi - Defense Minister, and Rajnath : Home Minister. CNN IBN is reporting this morning that MM Joshi is expected to be the next raksha mantri..

and Jaitley as EAM..

Rahul M · Post by **Rahul M** » 20 May 2014 06:42

those wanting to discuss cabinet post allotments plz move to GDF.

those wanting to discuss defence decisions (only) plz stay on.

member_28108 · Post by **member_28108** » 20 May 2014 07:01

Priority in defence should be
Realistic audit of defence services and needs - ie exact status.
Getting indigenization projects on fast track
GTRE - identification of problems and develop or in the beatles fashion "beg steal or borrow" required technology but get it.
Competition mode in all DRDO establishments - two groups to compete and incentives for reaching targets on time and for succeses. This will spur develepment.
A6 launch- enough ambiguity of ICBM capability - get done with it.
Sincere program to rerecruit the liost brain drain from India from other countries that have technical expertise as consultants for the defence research establishments.

Mihir · Post by **Mihir** » 20 May 2014 07:42

The more I think about it, the more I find myself agreeing with Nitin Pai's prescriptions as far as defence policy goes. Like someone said to him,

[foreign and defence portfolios] are mostly irrelevant to India's national priorities at this stage. Wars involving us are unlikely, neighbouring countries are caught up in webs of their own making and most international developments don't involve us, even if they sometimes affect us a little. In his view, therefore, the foreign and defence ministries are best used to balance competing political factions within the ruling party, rather than to house the best qualified person for the job. The key economic portfolios, on the other hand, ought to go to the best talent the ruling party or coalition can muster.

Or to condense his he view into a simple soundbyte, "our China policy is 8 per cent growth, our America policy is 8 per cent growth and our Pakistan policy is 8 per cent growth."

It makes a lot of sense. The first order of priority should be to get the money flowing and the economy booming again. Even when it comes to military spending, decisions that have economic benefits should acquire greater importance. That means upgrading infrastructure and strengthening the indigenous military-industrial complex. A rich India will ultimately have more cash and foreign exchange to spend on its military.

ShauryaT · Post by **ShauryaT** » 20 May 2014 07:58

Let us not confuse defense policy with foreign or economic. While all are linked, there is enough scope to run an efficacious defense ministry. It would be huge disappointment to have a defense minister not interested or capable to mange the defense administration. George Fernandes, while high on theatrics did not exactly run an efficient administration many times pre-clearing things from the CVC before a decision is made. But to be fair to him, it was he who had to resign based on unproven charges. Whoever it is better deliver on this important aspect of governance that controls a sixth of the government budget. Modi's reputation will ride on this message of governance.

Preparing a separate wish list.

Mihir · Post by **Mihir** » 20 May 2014 08:05

It is nobody's case that an incapable, uninterested person be put in charge of the MoD. But like anywhere else, the talent pool is limited, as is the political capital -- in spite of the massive mandate. India's main problems today at economic, and it makes sense to staff ministries that deal with the economy and infrastructure with the best and most capable people. Once things stabilise and India gets into a more comfortable economic position, military strength will automatically follow.

nash · Post by **nash** » 20 May 2014 08:07

I think there should be a list of defense related projects, which should be given National Status and directly put under PM/PMO. Such as:

1. LCA
2. Kaveri
3. Arjun
4. BMD
5. P75I
6. F-INSAS
7. Artillery Project.

Any issue and bottle-neck related to bureaucracy should be cleared within fortnight or month. DRDO and other stakeholder should be given free hand and support, especially in R&D to boost their confidence and minimize their fear of failure.

RoyG · Post by **RoyG** » 20 May 2014 09:02

Strategic Items list:

Laser Ignition Facility
Magnetized Targeted Fusion
Thorium Batteries
Indigenous and secure operating system
Quantum communications and computing
Ground Based electro-optical deep space surveillance
Graphene research as an alternative to rare earths
Microchip manufacturing
Next generation nuclear weapons
Nuclear Distillation plants
MSR and Lead cooled fast reactors

Philip · Post by **Philip** » 20 May 2014 09:25

Yes Roy,we've not mentioned cutting edge research/black projects at all.There is a huge amt. of R&D required as lasers,rail guns,etc. are on the cusp of induction.However,a capable and competent person must head defence. A party loyalist won't do.If he or she is knowledgeable about def. tech/issues,so much the better. Just look at how a clever,capable man like "the Saint" destroyed India's defence capability ,ending up as "the Sinner"!

pragnya · Post by **pragnya** » 20 May 2014 09:31

Arun Shourie's skills & talent can much better me utilized in Finance. I feel, between the 2 Arun's (Jaitley & Shourie) they will get Finance & EA.

fact is Arun Shourie can fit in any ministry but the need is more in defence as the backlog and legacy of AKA has to be swept clean. we need a person who is more a technocrat than a pure politician. besides i miss Yashwant Sinha who was both EA and Finance and between AJ and YS these can be taken care of.

darshhan · Post by **darshhan** » 20 May 2014 09:37

RoyG wrote:Strategic Items list:

Laser Ignition Facility
Magnetized Targeted Fusion
Thorium Batteries
Indigenous and secure operating system
Quantum communications and computing
Ground Based electro-optical deep space surveillance
Graphene research as an alternative to rare earths
Microchip manufacturing
Next generation nuclear weapons
Nuclear Distillation plants
MSR and Lead cooled fast reactors

Now that is a list. RoyG ji you are not the one to aim low

Just add artificial general intelligence and unmanned/robotic technologies also.

RoyG · Post by **RoyG** » 20 May 2014 10:08

Phillipji and Darshhanji,

We have really fallen WAY behind in strategic/black technologies. The time when we amass 500,000 troops at the border with tanks, helicopters, etc. is becoming less and less relevant. Economic warfare, disruptive technologies, ideology and identity building, covert operations, asymmetrical warfare, etc are less costly and more effective in bringing down your foes and keeping your allies in check. Truth is even healthcare is now a strategic issue along with agriculture. Sperm counts, hormones, obesity, pathogens, plant diseases, etc are becoming more relevant. We need to look at national security not only in terms bullets and bombs but what elements make us who we are and help us survive on a day to day basis. We just don't have this kind of thinking yet in policy circles.

"The arrow shot by the archer may or may not kill a single person. But stratagems devised by wise men can kill even babies in the womb." - Kautilya

NRao · Post by **NRao** » 20 May 2014 11:08

FYI:

Prime Minister's Office's 10 Point Priority List for Narendra Modi

When Narendra Modi holds his first meeting with officials in the Prime Minister's Office after being sworn in as the country's 15th Prime Minister, he will be handed a list marked 'Top Priority'.

Such a list, sources in the PMO said, is compiled every time there is a change of regime at the Centre. Here is what his new office is waiting to present to Mr Modi as issues to be addressed immediately.

1. Need to tackle inflation
2. Inputs for budget preparation
3. Steps to contain terrorism and extremism, particularly left-wing extremism
4. Important appointments to be made at different levels in various ministries and departments
5. Priorities of each ministry
6. Kickstarting disinvestment all over again
7. List of pending legislation
8. List of Group of Ministers (GoMs) and EGoMs, and their members
9. List of Governors, and their terms
10. List of committees and government bodies which are headed by the Prime Minister

nash · Post by **nash** » 20 May 2014 12:03

http://www.business-standard.com/articl ... 169_1.html

http://www.business-standard.com/articl ... 206_1.html

Above 2 article gives the glimpse of possible government functioning in next 5 years and if we can get same kind of governance in Defense sector then it will be a big Boon for Military and MIC

member_20317 · Post by **member_20317** » 21 May 2014 09:39

Start focusing on an expansive datalinking of all military assets and sensing capabilities. Such capabilities created would be multidimensional. Also it seems it is a can do zone for us Indians acting on our own. Additionally it puts us in a position where our legacy equipment can begin to look hexy.

Remind yourself how the Gen 2 Mig 21 became a capable Bison by incorporation of better sensors.

Sensation jaroori hai bhai.

Rahul M · Post by **Rahul M** » 21 May 2014 10:12

my choice for govt's priority is a project that hits the sweet spot as far as mil tech, non-mil-tech & economics overlap goes -- the desi airliner project. make the 100-seater aircraft a priority, not only would it allow us a default option for mil platforms like AEW&C, ELINT, VIP transport etc, it will also lead to a domestic aviation boom, not to mention possible foreign exchange influx as well.

the other project I will like to see take off in a big way is a domestic wheeled APC, not to replace the ICV's like BMP but to supplement those. what I would really want to see is a full-scale mechanisation of all non-mountain infantry units - with lighter and cheaper wheeled APC's and ICV's in the ratio 2:1 (2 wheeled APC brigade for each ICV equipped mechanised brigade). the wheeled APC can also serve as a platform for a host of self propelled support vehicles for the units, with the added advantage of commonality.

Nikhil T · Post by **Nikhil T** » 21 May 2014 11:47

Here's my wish list. I'd submitted some of these to BJP's manifesto committee as well.

Streamline the Artillery acquisition program.
One-time purchase of critical ammunition (tank rounds, air-to-air missiles, black shark torpedoes etc) & equipment (towed array sonars, NVG for tanks) within 100 days to ensure operational readiness.
Create a National Mission to reform Defence shipyards and Ordinance Factories.
List HAL on stock exchanges, separate it's Helicopter Division and Civilian projects into two new companies.
Create clusters from individual DRDO labs with the each cluster's head reporting to DG, DRDO ; complete the DRDO revamp as suggested by the Rama Rao committee.
Form long-term capability-based purchase plans (LTIPP) of 3 services within pragmatic funding and technological constraints.
Restructure and reform Border Roads Program by creating empowered Centre-State Committees.
Introduce uniformed officers in MoD, MEA, Pay Commission and PMO decision making.
Reform the offset-handling clauses of DPP-2013 to ensure maximum benefit for the nation's technology base.
Implement Naresh Chandra Task Force report on higher Defence management.

merlin · Post by **merlin** » 21 May 2014 18:13

My wish list

1. Integrate Service HQs with MoD
2. Theatre commands and then CDS
3. Aerospace command, Spec Ops command
4. Make Indian the default mode of acquisition
5. OROP

Mihir · Post by **Mihir** » 22 May 2014 03:00

Rahul M wrote:my choice for govt's priority is a project that hits the sweet spot as far as mil tech, non-mil-tech & economics overlap goes -- the desi airliner project. make the 100-seater aircraft a priority, not only would it allow us a default option for mil platforms like AEW&C, ELINT, VIP transport etc, it will also lead to a domestic aviation boom, not to mention possible foreign exchange influx as well.

+1

Just the right proportion of aiming high, mitigating risks, and giving a huge shot in the arm to the local aerospace industry.

NRao · Post by **NRao** » 22 May 2014 03:58

Mihir wrote:
Rahul M wrote:my choice for govt's priority is a project that hits the sweet spot as far as mil tech, non-mil-tech & economics overlap goes -- the desi airliner project. make the 100-seater aircraft a priority, not only would it allow us a default option for mil platforms like AEW&C, ELINT, VIP transport etc, it will also lead to a domestic aviation boom, not to mention possible foreign exchange influx as well.
+1

Just the right proportion of aiming high, mitigating risks, and giving a huge shot in the arm to the local aerospace industry.

March, 2014 :: Upbeat Boeing and Airbus revise 20-year market outlook for India

followed by an ad for:

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1000s of visas approved: Trust our Experienced lawyers, rest assured.

Cosmo_R · Post by **Cosmo_R** » 22 May 2014 04:18

The most pressing priority is developing a sub-conventional, covert capability in conjunction with the Afghans to instantly respond with ferocity against the paki army where it lives (think Kaluchak) that is both plausibly deniable and used to buy time to deliver a conventional response to any Mumbai 2.0 or close.

The Afghans would be delirious if they were funded and supported

Philip · Post by **Philip** » 22 May 2014 18:23

Media reports say that the services have already prepared their wish list/prioritiy decisions for the new GOI to fasttrack.No details yet.

nash · Post by **nash** » 22 May 2014 18:58

VK singh on DI, DRDO, etc

http://www.moneycontrol.com/news/politi ... 91374.html

he will be perfect for MoS of defense

brar_w · Post by **brar_w** » 22 May 2014 19:17

We must also remember here that the Government and the PMO make leadership decisions and take broad policy calls. They for example wont decide spec of the hardware under consideration or development etc..

rakall · Post by **rakall** » 22 May 2014 19:50

Philip wrote:Media reports say that the services have already prepared their wish list/prioritiy decisions for the new GOI to fasttrack.No details yet.

Definitely Imported systems, right?

Not a wishlist of backing needed for Indigenous projects or streamlining defence production!!!!

Dont want to sound cynical, but what we need is a "vision" rather than "wishlists" !! We should have a juidicious mix of both.. Unfortunately, so far, the leaning is more towards one side..

SanjayC · Post by **SanjayC** » 22 May 2014 19:52

rakall wrote:Indigestion where ever possible (will elaborate specifics later)

What's so funny? Which part is funny - the first part or second part..

Sorry.. been busy a lot.. Twitter crusade against the media..

"Indigestion — also called dyspepsia or an upset stomach — is a general term that describes discomfort in your upper abdomen."

brar_w · Post by **brar_w** » 22 May 2014 19:52

rakall wrote:
Philip wrote:Media reports say that the services have already prepared their wish list/prioritiy decisions for the new GOI to fasttrack.No details yet.
Definitely Imported systems, right?

Not a wishlist of backing needed for Indigenous projects or streamlining defence production!!!!

Those would be on the DRDO's wishlist

rakall · Post by **rakall** » 22 May 2014 19:56

SanjayC wrote:
rakall wrote:Indigestion where ever possible (will elaborate specifics later)

What's so funny? Which part is funny - the first part or second part..

Sorry.. been busy a lot.. Twitter crusade against the media..
"Indigestion — also called dyspepsia or an upset stomach — is a general term that describes discomfort in your upper abdomen."

Thanks buddy.. Noticed it a while later, and already corrected it 2days ago !!! Problem due to "auto-correct" on the phone.

NRao · Post by **NRao** » 23 May 2014 01:37

Armed with Presentations, Military Chiefs Prep to Meet Narendra Modi

The three military chiefs will make presentations before Narendra Modi next week, after he is sworn in as the new Prime Minister.

The chiefs will each make a 25-minute presentation to Mr Modi and his Defence Minister on a detailed roadmap for the armed forces.

Sources say the forces have been asked to categorise their needs as "urgent" or "necessary".

Army Chief General Bikram Singh has deferred his visit to Tajikistan and Turkmenistan for the briefing.

He is likely to brief Mr Modi on the need to buy artillery guns, attack helicopters and basic weapons like infantry assault rifles.

The Air Force is expected to discuss the prolonged negotiations with French Aviation major Dassault Aviation to buy 126 combat jets. Officials say the 15 billion dollar deal needs to be finalized as soon as the new government clears it.

The Air Force, which has an authorized strength of 39.5 squadrons, is down to about 33 squadrons as there were no new acquisitions after old aircraft were phased out.

The Indian Navy, too, is short of conventional submarines; its fleet of diesel-powered submarines is down to a single digit and submarines in production in Indian shipyards are at least four years behind schedule.

Sources say the chiefs are likely to take up the state of the Indian Infantry.

Well-known gun brands like Colt and Beretta are among five or six companies competing for the big tender of 60,000 assault rifles at an estimated cost of Rs. 5,000 crore. The army also wants to replace light machine guns.

The three service chiefs will also flag the security situation in the Indian sub-continent and brief Mr Modi about the situation along the Line of Control and the progress of infrastructure development along the China frontier.

Mr Modi will also meet top bureaucrats of all ministries. Cabinet Secretary AK Seth has asked all departments to prepare power point presentations on their needs and achievements.

Philip · Post by **Philip** » 23 May 2014 06:14

"Vision" is indeed a laudable goal,but what happens to the weapon systems which are obsolete,falling apart and need immediate replacements and spares,upgrades,etc.? If we wait for delivery,DPSU timsescale,take the LCA for example,where in 2003,ex-pres. APJAK said that "by 2013,we will have 200 LCAs in service..." there will be a catalogue of disasters in the 3 services "waiting for Godot" to deliver.

Both vision as well as stopping the breach,plugging the hole in the dyke,are needed.There are decisions required for the short,medium and long term to put the security of the country on an even keel,left disastrously listing by the "Sinner" and his jokers in the MOD.

merlin · Post by **merlin** » 23 May 2014 12:17

One Rs. will get you a thousand that all the urgent decisions will be to import foreign products on a fast scale. That's the "vision" for the armed forces.

nirav · Post by **nirav** » 23 May 2014 21:01

I had Modi for PM on my wishlist earlier. Now its Modi for DM.

The forces could very well use the abilities and decision making prowess of Shri.Narendra Modi as Raksha Mantri.

Tweeted the same to the official handle of the PM Designate. Not sure of its effect tho !
Did it nevertheless ..

member_26622 · Post by **member_26622** » 24 May 2014 03:18

What does it take to make and deploy 2000 155 mm guns and light up the Paki border whenever their BATS team crosses over >> A gun at every mile, firing for an hour non stop - every time these cockroaches get close to the border.

If they like to carry back trophy heads then we like to serve minced meat!