Narendra Modi vs the Dynasty: Contrasting Ideas of India

vivek.rao
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Re: Narendra Modi vs the Dynasty: Contrasting Ideas of India

Postby vivek.rao » 23 May 2014 05:03

http://www.rediff.com/news/report/meet- ... 140522.htm
A 1988 batch Indian Administrative Service of Gujarat cadre, Arvind Sharma is set to be Prime Minister-designate Narendra Modi's personal secretary. Sharma was additional principal secretary to the Modi when he was chief minister of Gujarat, and has been with him since 2001.


Soft-spoken and mild-mannered Sharma is considered among the closest bureaucrats to Modi and has traveled with him during the former’s foreign tours.

Besides his role as secretary to Modi, Sharma was also CEO of Gujarat Infrastructure Development Board, which planned and implemented Modi's pet projects such as Special Investment Regions and other industrial development projects.

"Sharma has been relieved from Gujarat and his formal order for the PMO will be issued later, but he has already shifted to the national capital," a senior official in the chief minister’s office said.

Sharma hails from Azamgarh in Uttar Pradesh and has keen sense in politics so he was also among the key strategists of Modi for Uttar Pradesh where the Bharatiya Janata Party won 73 seats in the parliamentary polls.

Despite his proximity to Modi and powerful postings he held in Gujarat, Sharma remained down to earth and worked mostly as a backroom boy so he remained uncontroversial during his 12-year-stint in the CMO.

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Re: Narendra Modi vs the Dynasty: Contrasting Ideas of India

Postby RamaY » 23 May 2014 05:20

Shankas wrote:
Narayana Rao wrote:This is reported:
Home secretary Goswami, for instance, dwelt on security challenges such as “revamping intelligence agencies” and a proposal for the return of Kashmiri Pandits to the Valley.


24 years ago, 400,000 Kashmir Pandits were expelled. The refugee population has probably grown to 2 million by now :twisted: . To address the security challenges and protection, the Govt. needs to send in 200,000 retired army personal with family for a temporary period :mrgreen:


Who is maintaining records of Kashmiri Hindu families?
Per internal sources (the deepest kind) each Kashmiri pundit family sent at least one son to Indian Special Forces :twisted:
They all will return to Kashmir with families.

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Re: Narendra Modi vs the Dynasty: Contrasting Ideas of India

Postby Anantha » 23 May 2014 05:23

vivek.rao wrote:I can't even imagine what this guy @naredramodi is upto.


Sheela Bhatt ‏@sheela2010 5h
Two days back, Modi asked former IB chief about Kashmir, terrorism, fake currencies, Maoism etc...full one hour briefing..

Sheela Bhatt ‏@sheela2010 5h
Modi has asked his team to prepare the victory profile of BJP's elected MPs. He wants to know their strengths and capabilities, too.


This sheela Bhatt cooks her own stories, so take it with a bucket of salt. During exit polls she said RSS had come up with 210 seats for BJP and 240 for NDA. (The numbers I had from my RSS sources were 255 BJP and 295 NDA)
Also Modi has asked for CV of victorious BJP candidates, not victory profile

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Re: Narendra Modi vs the Dynasty: Contrasting Ideas of India

Postby Anantha » 23 May 2014 05:28

[quote="vivek.rao"]I can't even imagine what this guy @naredramodi is upto.

This
Image

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Re: Narendra Modi vs the Dynasty: Contrasting Ideas of India

Postby Anantha » 23 May 2014 05:48

http://edition.cnn.com/2014/05/21/opinion/carl-gop-can-learn-from-narendra-modi-india/index.html
An interesting comment
tever piyu2cool • 6 hours ago
Absolutely. I'm not Indian, but I've reading up about this guy. The BJP party of Modi is not brazenly obsessed about stupid stuff like abortions and while they aren't necessarily ho-hum about gay marriage they don't constantly scream about it like the evangelical Republican nutcases like Trent Franks (who interestingly enough wanted Modi's visa revoked and said women don't get pregnant from rape). Also Republican evangelical nutcases act anti-science and anti-global warming. Modi and the BJP does not do this as he created one of the largest solar parks in the world, and fought harshly for conservation of a type of lion. Modi wrote his OWN book on the environment called: "Convenient Action: Gujarat's Response to Challenges of Climate Change". Marco Rubio the fool has just denied climate change and Ted Cruz's father called it a farce.

So while stupid left wingers (like CNN) try to paint Modi as some hard right conservative, he would probably be labeled a hard left winger here in america if he were to run. He would be a genuine liberal, not a fake liberal like Obama or the other fake liberals who think that if Islamists attack Hindus, Buddhists, Shias, Ahmadiyaas, atheists, then it must not be the Islamists' fault.

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Re: Narendra Modi vs the Dynasty: Contrasting Ideas of India

Postby SwamyG » 23 May 2014 05:51

abhijitm wrote:I am sorry. Did not mean to get personal. Thanks for the clarification. But that entire block I quoted made me uneasy. Our society do carry that false feeling of superiority over each other which makes me worried.

Any society that has diversity faces this issue. Differences if handled properly are healthy to a country. Celebrating differences has its place, it boils down to time and place when unity is called for.

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Re: Narendra Modi vs the Dynasty: Contrasting Ideas of India

Postby Anantha » 23 May 2014 05:57

http://www.business-standard.com/article/politics/modi-displeased-by-lobbying-say-bjp-sources-114052201473_1.html#.U353DBye8yk.twitter



The understanding within team Modi is interests with a footprint in the outgoing UPA government are trying to find a toehold in the next government by putting forth the case for technocrats as ministers of state. The Bharatiya Janata Party (BJP), however, is unwilling to accommodate these interests, especially as it has secured a majority on its own. Efforts to tout technocrats as handling key ministerial portfolios have been deeply resented.

A BJP senior privy to the process of Cabinet formation told Business Standard there wasn’t an iota of truth to the portfolios being discussed in the media. “It is pure speculation. Modiji has been too busy with other engagements to devote much time to it. The real brainstorming will start from tonight, when he lands in Delhi,” the leader said.


There you are Burkha, Ghose, dorknob, Shiela's Butt have been full of gas

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Re: Narendra Modi vs the Dynasty: Contrasting Ideas of India

Postby fanne » 23 May 2014 06:23

They are full of gas, right, that's the reason for their constipated look!! I believe this Karan Thappar guy has not gone for years!!

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Re: Narendra Modi vs the Dynasty: Contrasting Ideas of India

Postby Nirantar » 23 May 2014 06:24

Message to modi team- it may appear to be too early to say but bjp brass should start looking into identifying at least 2-3 modi like personalities in bjp to nurture. I wish modi has at least 25 years of healthy and full of vigour life ahead.

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Re: Narendra Modi vs the Dynasty: Contrasting Ideas of India

Postby vivek.rao » 23 May 2014 06:31

Exclusive: How Amit Shah engineered the UP revolution


When Amit Shah was put in charge of UP around one year ago, he found the BJP in disarray. First, there was no leader in Lucknow whose face could represent the party, like Shivraj Singh Chouhan in Madhya Pradesh or Narendra Modi in Gujarat.

Then he discovered that the BJP had not fought any election at the panchayat or district level for more than a decade. As a result, the party's presence in UP's villages was thin.

He noticed that the biggest odds the BJP faced was in caste-acceptability. The Jatavs were loyal to the Bahujan Samaj Party. The Yadavs were with the Samajwadi Party. Muslims would never come to the BJP. So, to start with, the BJP confronted a loss of 40 percent of voters.

Beyond these disadvantages, all seats in UP had four-cornered contests. That made the election very difficult to navigate and predict.

The BJP has not been in power in UP for 17 years so the cadres' interest in the party was waning. Shah also saw that the Samajwadi Party used state government machinery to attract Muslims to its side, thus ensuring protection of its vote bank.

Amit Shah is from Gujarat, but in many ways UP is another country. Around 30 percent of the constituencies fall in a 'dark zone'. It is so underdeveloped that there is no television penetration, no newspapers and no modern gadgets. How to reach out to these areas and send Modi's message?

Amit Shah wanted every UP voter to know Modi. 'He must touch Modi somewhere' was his idea. In some sense, Shah knew his critics were right when they said he did not know UP. He was new to the land of the Ganga. To familiarise himself with the state, Shah travelled 93,000 km by road and rail in the last one year.

In all he spent 142 nights in villages and towns of different UP districts. Everywhere he ensured he had dinner of saunf-khichdi-chaas (fennel-rice and lentils-buttermilk) in workers' homes. In 52 districts, he addressed big meetings. He called another 40 or so meetings to touch all 80 constituencies. He met all candidates before their selection and after.

He created an excellent plan to counter each and every disadvantage. The problems were turned into challenges. First, as reported in Rediff.com earlier, Shah called a meeting of BJP candidates who had lost the assembly and Lok Sabha elections in Lucknow. He ensured that he thoroughly understood the reasons behind the voters' rejection of the BJP.

The next step was to officially disband all booth committees and form new ones with scientific planning. Efficiency and reliability were ensured.

The BJP believes the Samajwadi Party-Congress and BSP-Congress had a tacit understanding to defeat the BJP in the last four phases. The weaker candidates were asked to lie low so that a vote against the BJP did not get divided. Shah saw through the game and worked on the issue.

Mainly, his strategy to win UP veered around spreading the message of Hindu identity, projecting Modi's leadership, encashing anti-incumbency against the Samajwadi Party and United Progressive Alliance governments in Lucknow and Delhi respectively.

To keep the Hindu identity issue in the picture, the Rashtriya Swayamsevak Sangh and the BJP arranged meetings of hundreds of holy men in UP villages and towns.

To send 'Modi' to UP's villages and towns, 450 BJP raths were organised. More than 30,000 schools, colleges and educational institutions were contacted to attract the youth. All booth committees were given Bolero jeeps to ensure that they remain in the field.

In all the booths, caste-based clusters were created which had one Yadav, one Kurmi, one Jatav etc. The caste combination was as per the caste profile of that particular constituency.


From Lucknow, the message was sent that now 'Panchayat to Parliament' all elections would be fought by the BJP. This stirred the people with a political interest in the nooks and corners of UP. More than 80 Other Backward Classes sammelans were called by the BJP to ensure that they start a new political relationship with Modi, an OBC himself.

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Re: Narendra Modi vs the Dynasty: Contrasting Ideas of India

Postby Prasad » 23 May 2014 06:41

Effectively he rebuilt the entire UP-BJP party from the ground up within months while preparing for a massive election. Brilliant!

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Re: Narendra Modi vs the Dynasty: Contrasting Ideas of India

Postby SaiK » 23 May 2014 07:08

he is apt for defence and security, among other things he can do.

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Re: Narendra Modi vs the Dynasty: Contrasting Ideas of India

Postby Shanmukh » 23 May 2014 07:37

Folks - I am seeing a lot of worry about the Teesta water treaty on Twitter (confirmed in private by a few WB friends).

http://www.telegraphindia.com/1140523/j ... 360067Yf6M

This article claims that NaMo is going to go ahead without Mamata's approval for Teesta water sharing with Bangladesh (IMO, not a great idea - he should get Mamata's consent, one way or the other). I looked up the Teesta water sharing on the net, but to me, it does not sound too bad (but I am no expert). But the fear is that Mamata is going to go hammer and tongs against the agreement and win the next elections on water betrayal by NaMo. Can someone with more knowledge about the matter clarify what the impact will be?

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Re: Narendra Modi vs the Dynasty: Contrasting Ideas of India

Postby Anantha » 23 May 2014 08:00

Nageshks
There is lot of BS floating around on Modi's plans; his cabinet, his SAARC plans, hiring technocrats and now this. Modi's close advisors have confirmed that all these are trial baloons floated by vested interests.
Even if Teesta sharing is true, feel rest assured, Modiji will do things that will ultimately benefit India. You can bet they already have plans for 2019 and which fruits should be shown to people at that time. Be rest assured in the next few years the opposition will have broken backs and will be fighting with Congis for Muslim votes.
Be calm and Trust Modiji, I have followed him for 10 years now. We have climbed the huge wall last week and we will succeed.

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Re: Narendra Modi vs the Dynasty: Contrasting Ideas of India

Postby Sridhar K » 23 May 2014 08:23

Peoples wildest dreams, earlier work, decisions are being attributed to Modi now. Yesterday, the lady who used to baby sit my daughter a couple of years ago visited us and said to my mom *amma, our roads have been laid recently based on the mandate from our new PM Mr. Modi who had given directions that all roads should be laid *.

Modi has laid an IED with the invitation to SAARC leaders. Now media, amma, Mamata etc. have stepped on it while Modi silently works his plans. Looks like he is continuing what he did during the election .i.e. set the agenda for the day/week to the media, arrange a few BJP party members, supporters engage them while his core team does the actual work.

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Re: Narendra Modi vs the Dynasty: Contrasting Ideas of India

Postby RamaY » 23 May 2014 08:27

So Pakis made their move. That too in Afghanistan. Good choice.

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Re: Narendra Modi vs the Dynasty: Contrasting Ideas of India

Postby Agnimitra » 23 May 2014 08:50

This is beyond ridiculous. Francois Gautier wrote a blogpost - probably in satire - about Nostradamus' predictions about Elections 2014:
http://francoisgautier.me/2014/03/13/no ... ections-2/

TV9 News picks that up and airs it as sensational, serious stuff: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2jtPq12W-DM

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Re: Narendra Modi vs the Dynasty: Contrasting Ideas of India

Postby SaiK » 23 May 2014 09:14

simplum nonsensicum!

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Re: Narendra Modi vs the Dynasty: Contrasting Ideas of India

Postby Manish_Sharma » 23 May 2014 09:23

BRFites as a think tank I wonder if it would be a good idea to present the new govt. with a book detailing:

1.) To go for 1200 Tejas a/c instead of importing.

2.) To go for 30 Arihants + 12 Scorpenes instead of uber-expensive P 75I.

3.) Order 2000 Arjun tanks.

I want to take brilliant posts by Shiv ji on this:

http://forums.bharat-rakshak.com/posting.php?mode=reply&f=24&t=6489

shiv wrote:The "Industrial revolution" started around 1800 and continued for over a century. During that century, the countries of Europe and the USA underwent fundamental changes as science was applied to create machines that made human labour more efficient. Steam power, mining, chemicals, spinning and weaving and metallurgy. Faster transport and communication, reliable ships, railways, the telegraph etc ensured that Europe and the US were industrial societies by 1900.

Experimentation had led to the invention of the unpowered glider, and in 1903, the Wright brothers, who were IIRC bicycle makers built upon the concepts of a light and strong structure and the internal combustion engine and created the first powered aircraft. 11 years later, WW1 broke out and thousands of aircraft were manufactured to fight and concepts like recce, dogfights, air defence and bombing had all been "invented" before the end of the 1914-1918 war. By 1900, Europe and the US had already had 100 years of industrial development.

Remember the date 1800 (or 1799) by which time the "Industrial revolution" was starting in Europe. What was happening in India? Just 93 years before - in 1707, Aurangzeb had died. Elderly people who had live under Aurangzeb's rule were still alive in India at that time. India was in a flux and the east India company was expanding. 100 years later, by 1800 the East India company itself was a rich multinational ruling India. So by the time the British crown took over India in 1847, There had been virtually no socio economic progress for Indians.

I need to clarify that statement a bit. India had plenty of rich kings, some of whom benefited from trade with Britons. India also had a business class, typically family run businesses but learning had come to an end. One needs to recall that the entire business of the east India company was trade. Import of things from India and export to india. Export to India was manufactured goods from the new industries of Britain. It made no sense to have industries in India. Indians were the consumers. The only Indians who benefited were the traditional royals who collected tax and some Indian businessmen. The Kshatriya class ruler and his court were OK as were some (vysya class) businessmen. But the vast Indian countryside left out most people from the new changes. Because of British imports of steel and cloth, traditional Indian workmen, the shudras, the "engineers" and innovators who made things with their hands went out of business. carpenters, weavers, potters, metalworkers etc. Of course the cotton growers did well as did cotton traders. But the trading class were always going to be OK.

India's first engineers were trained in the mid 1850s. They were only civil engineers and only a handful were trained in the early colleges in Kolkata and Chennai (and Rourkee, I think). It was not until the 1930s that the first mechanical engineers were trained in India. So by 1940 India had a modest educated class of people who were from backgrounds like the royalty and armed forced (kshatriya), business (vysya) and some brahmins who served as accountants, clerks and scientific helpers to the British. India had virtually no "manufacturing class" (shudra). Oh we had millworkers, and railway workers. But no factories where goods designed by indians for India were produced. Of course in the middle of all this, about 90% of Indians were illiterate anyway (1930 figures). Compare that with about 80% literate in Europe and 90% literate in the USA at that time! By that time the fathers or grandfathers of BRFites today had been born.

In 1950 or so Britain had 9 million factory workers, 18% of the population. Check the comparison for India:

http://encyclopedia2.thefreedictionary. ... king+Class
On the eve of World War I there were 951,000 factory workers in India. A quarter of a century later (1939) there were 1,751,000. During the period between the two world wars the total number of industrial workers, including artisans, remained virtually unchanged
.

India's share of industrial production and industrial output in the world is directly related to our shudras, the factory workers and engineers and even after independence we had a miniscule number.

India had 370 million people in 1950. We only had 10-15% literacy and about 2 million factory workers. Britain had 50 million people, about 90% literacy and 9 million factory workers. And they still had to import workers for their factories! Our literate people in 1950 were ruling class, business families, military officers and government employees. We hardly had any engineers. Our colleges had started producing mechanical, chemical and electrical and other engineers barely 15 years before 1950.

The fact that the HT-2 (a basic trainer aircraft) was made in India in 1951 is a flash in the pan. Almost pretence. We had nowhere near the industrial and social development of the west at that time. We had not built a single engine or a machine tool. I am certain the HT 2 was made using lathes, presses, and machines that were imported earlier for the WW 2 war effort. So while we are allowed to feel pride at the achievement of the HT 2 that achievement hides that decrepit state of out industry in that era. By 1950 India had missed out on 150 years of industrial development. Even if we thought that we were "getting there" the bald facts are that you cannot catch up with 150 years of industrialization in 10, or 20 or even 50 years.

It is easy to underestimate the level to which your country needs to be industrialized to produce even one single aircraft in house. An aircraft may have half a million different parts. Each part has to be designed and mass produced. The materials that make that part requires chemistry and metallurgy . Making the machines that will make that part requires engineers - and the humble machine worker.

The aicraft has wings. Those wings are made of aluminium, steel and some composites. Mines have to exist for those materials, The ore must be refined and the metal extracted and purified, and the metal then alloyed if need be and then formed by moulding, casting or shaping to form wing skin, internal wing structure, rivets, nuts, bolts. In the 1930s wings were often made of wood and fabric, so any European or American who learned about wings in the 1920s and 30s would learn about aerodynamics, but would be less skilled in the design of metal wings. But at east he would not be stuck in aerodynamics theory. The Indian engineer knew neither.

The wings would need a separate factory floor, but the nuts bolts and rivets would themselves need a separate factory and separate machines to fashion them. The glass parts of the aircraft like lights, dials would need a separate glass factory. For that a good quality glass manufacturing unit would first be required and machines places in that factory to make the glass. Some engineering skills are required to make those machines that make the glass that then if used in the aircraft. And the design skills and metallurgy for those machines that make the glass. Several separate factory units are needed for the glass alone. By the 1900s Europe and the USA already had factories manufacturing machines to make other machines. India had none in 1950.

Every one of these machines need motors. So you need machines to make motor parts and metallurgy to design the motor. You need copper, ceramics and ruber/plastic industries to support the motor manufacture. And you need skilled workmen to design and make the motors that drive the machines that make the machines that make the rivets, nuts, bolts, wings and glass.

Every aircraft has kilometers of wiring. Wiring needs a copper industry. Copper mines or a source of ore. Extraction and refining. Machines are required to be manufactured by a separate factory for mining, extraction and refining and another machine for creating wire out of coper metal. Once the copper is ready you need a separate plastics industry to make the insulation for the wires. For that you need access to the raw material (Petroleum products) refineries to extract the raw material and a further factory to make the insulation for the wires. And of course you need factories that manufacture the machines that make the insulation. And workers.

Then every aircraft has some parts that undergo great stresses. You need light extra strength materials for this. This may be titanium or tungsten - so you need a separate metallurgical line to handle those materials. Some like titanium cannot be welded like steel and do not agree to change shape as you want like copper. Handling them is a matter of research, experience and skill. Once developed the skills are passed from workman to workman (shudra to shudra) on the factory floor. They cannot be read from a book and chanted like a mantra. This is why production lines (such as submarines and aircraft- should not be closed down - but I will come to that later.

The aircraft has some fabric parts. Some places may have specialised fabric that needs special spinning and manufacturing processes to withstand stresses. So you need a separate factory unit for the fabrics and a separate line of industries that make the machines that weave and stitch the fabric.

Then you have the electrical and electronic parts - each category needing the same background knowledge and industrial infrastructure as I have detailed above. Finally you have insulation, seals and tyres, so you need an industry that can manufacture high quality rubber and synthetic materials. We all know how the space shuttle Challenger crashed because of a faulty rubber ring. Every time you fly your life depends on hundreds of such rubber rings and washers. And finally the engines. Any average engine is at least as complicated as the aircraft itself and each engine part requires all of the above and more

By 1900, when Europe and the USA were about to start making the first aircraft all the industries that I mention above already existed. They already had the level of industrialization, the engineering training and the workers to do all those things. India had zilch even in 1950, that is 5 decades later. When your daddy was born he was born into an India that was 150 years behind the west in terms of technology, education and industry. Nothing already existed and everything had to be built up from scratch. Why is anyone surprised or upset at the Indian aviation industry? Why does anyone even dare to believe that we can just get there in 10 years or even 50 years? Only ignorance of facts can make one think that way. It is India, not the industry alone that is backward. If you have an ignorant "educated class" of people who do not know their own country in addition to a fundamentally backward country, that is a formula for whining, self hate and imports.

When modern (modern????) India came into being in 1947, India was hardly different from Somalia or Afghanistan today in terms of development. Your grandfather, and maybe even your father was born by then. In Somalia. It was just called India. But we got a "modern" democratic system, a modern liberal constitution because we had free thinking "modern" people at the top leading a decrepit 1700s, pre industrial revolution nation. This was India around 1950. Compare with a USA that had already made the F-86 Sabre (1948) by then, and a UK that had already mad e the De Havilland Vampire (1946) and a USSR that had already made the MiG 15! (1948)

Now if you look at India's top leadership in 1947-1960, we had bureaucrats and leading politician-administrators (kshatriya class, brahmin advisors). We had business magnates (vysya class) but India was short of shudra manufacturing skills. The kshatriya-brahmin leaders and vysya business class who ran the nation had to equip the armed forces with weapons. But the weapons of 1950 were weapons like Sabres and Vamipres that were products of 150 years of shudra-engineering in the West. What choice did the Indian leadership have to maintain a modern armed force?

India just did not have the 150 year old industrial infrastructure and skilled shudra-engineering workforce and factories to make modern weapons. Your grandfather was alive at this time. The brahmin-kshatriya-vysya leadership of India had to use the nation's money to do deals with British, Russian and American Vysyas and give their competent shudra engineering industries a lot of money and work. This was fine as long as the scheming leaders of the west wanted to supply India with what we needed. But they squeezed us as and when it suited them.

What was the alternative? The alternative was to try and set up an indigenous industrial base to get our own engineer-workman-shudra workforce up to speed. We literally had 150 years catching up to do. As always, everyone wants to take credit for success, but failure is blamed on someone else. If you look up the relevant sources, you will find that test pilots in the west were being killed at the rate of 1 a week in th 1950s. These were all failures. But the west never gave up or stopped. The west never cursed their shudra engineers as incompetent bums who cannot deliver. When they delivered, the armed forces accepted less than perfect equipment (I will make a separate cross post of that below)

What do we do? We start with an industrial base that is 150 years behind the top 10 countries. We urgently do deals with western vysyas (business houses/MNCs) and give their experienced shudras (factory workers) business. And we spend some paise on asking our shudra to give us in 10 years or 20 years or 30 years military products that the shudras of the west developed using 150 years of experience. and when our shudra engineers are unable to bridge a 150 year gap in 50 years we have only contempt for them. Our contempt for them is largely because we as a nation consist of brahmins, kshatriyas and vysya-type thinkers leading the nation. We do not understand the practical engineering difficulties of the shudra. Just like a man may pay a prostitute for services, we pay a bunch of shudra engineers/technicians and expect results with no insight into why results are available abroad and not here. In our minds we Indians see ourselves as equal to the people of the west. So the failure of our products is not our failure. It is the stupid incompetents who have failed despite our paying them so much money and despite giving them 30 or 50 years. But we do not understand and do not want to understand that Indian industry and education simply cannot catch up with 150 years of industrialization in 50 years. And unless we spend and accept failures we will never ever get there.



shiv wrote:Before I made the above post, I had some thoughts about when an aircraft is "really really" ready for service. I will cross post that here. I don't mean to be harsh about anyone - but it seems to me that there have been nations in the past who have been forced to equip their armed forces with "less than world class" equipment that was faulty and unreliable. but they went ahead and suffered that, leading to a robust world leading industry some decades down the line.

There is a semi-philosophical question that asks "When is a fighter really ready for operational flying?"

I don't know the real answer to this question but I guess a safe answer would be "A fighter is ready for operational flying when it is capable of performing the roles envisaged for it in an air force which inducts the fighter, is reliable, and is available in adequate numbers and is fully serviceable when required"

Clearly this is a broad general definition where specifics are left vague. But using the above broad definition I am tempted to think that Air Forces of the world induct aircraft only when they reach that stage as per the definition above. But hey presto, when I look back at the history of military aviation, this is what I find, from WiKi and I post that at the bottom. If you read the list you find that the richest and most powerful country on earth has a record of inducting fighters long before they were really ready. Many were plain unsafe. I am sure the US could have turned to Britain or France for imports. But they did not.

I post his in the context of when the LCA will be declared as ready, but I do feel a separate thread on the evolution of military aviation along with industrial development may be a good idea.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/McDonnell_ ... Phantom_II
In air combat, the Phantom's greatest advantage was its thrust, which permitted
a skilled pilot to engage and disengage from the fight at will.[37] The massive
aircraft, designed to fire radar-guided missiles from beyond visual range,
lacked the agility of its Soviet opponents and was subject to adverse yaw during
hard maneuvering. Although thus subject to irrecoverable spins during aileron
rolls, pilots reported the aircraft to be very communicative and easy to fly on
the edge of its performance envelope. In 1972, the F-4E model was upgraded with
leading edge slats on the wing, greatly improving high angle of attack
maneuverability at the expense of top speed.[38]

The J79 engines produced noticeable amounts of black smoke, a severe
disadvantage in that the enemy could spot the aircraft.[39] This was solved on
the F-4S fitted with the −10A engine variant which used a smoke-free
combustor.[40]

The F-4's biggest weakness, as it was initially designed, was its lack of an
internal cannon. For a brief period, doctrine held that turning combat would be
impossible at supersonic speeds and little effort was made to teach pilots air
combat maneuvering. In reality, engagements quickly became subsonic.
Furthermore, the relatively new heat-seeking and radar-guided missiles at the
time were frequently reported as unreliable and pilots had to use multiple shots
(also known as ripple-firing), just to hit one enemy fighter. To compound the
problem, rules of engagement in Vietnam precluded long-range missile attacks in
most instances, as visual identification was normally required. Many pilots
found themselves on the tail of an enemy aircraft but too close to fire
short-range Falcons or Sidewinders. Although in 1967 USAF F-4Cs began carrying
SUU-16 external gunpods containing a 20 mm (.79 in) M61 Vulcan Gatling cannon,
USAF cockpits were not equipped with lead-computing gunsights,until the
introduction of the SUU-23, virtually assuring a miss in a maneuvering fight.
Some Marine Corps aircraft carried two pods for strafing. In addition to the
loss of performance due to drag, combat showed the externally mounted cannon to
be inaccurate unless frequently boresighted, yet far more cost-effective than
missiles. The lack of a cannon was finally addressed by adding an internally
mounted 20 mm (.79 in) M61 Vulcan on the F-4E.[38]



http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vought_F-8_Crusader
The Crusader was not an easy aircraft to fly, and was often unforgiving in
carrier landings where it suffered from yaw instability, and the
poorly-designed, castered nose wheel made steering on the deck problematic. It
earned a reputation as an "ensign killer" during its early service
introduction.[9] The nozzle and air intake were so low when the aircraft was on
the ground or the flight deck that the crews called the plane "the Gator." Not
surprisingly, the Crusader's mishap rate was relatively high compared to its
contemporaries, the Douglas A-4 Skyhawk and the F-4 Phantom II.


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/North_Amer ... uper_Sabre
The F-100A officially entered USAF service on 27 September 1954 with 479th
Fighter Wing at George AFB, CA. By 10 November 1954, the F-100As suffered six
major accidents due to flight instability, structural failures, and hydraulic
system failures, prompting the Air Force to ground the entire fleet until
February 1955. The 479th finally became operational in September 1955. Due to
ongoing problems, the Air Force began phasing out the F-100A in 1958, with the
last aircraft leaving active duty in 1961. By that time, 47 aircraft were lost
in major accidents.[2] Escalating tension due to construction of the Berlin Wall
in August 1961 forced the USAF to recall the F-100As into active service in
early 1962. The aircraft was finally retired in 1970.

By the time the F-105 mock-up had been completed in October 1953, the aircraft
had grown so large that the Allison J71 turbojet intended for it, was abandoned
in favor of an even more powerful Pratt & Whitney J75. Anticipating a protracted
development of the engine, it was expected that the first aircraft would use the
smaller Pratt & Whitney J57. Near the end of 1953, the entire program was
canceled by the USAF due to a number of delays and uncertainties regarding the
aircraft, however on 28 June 1954, the USAF officially ordered 15 F-105s (two
YF-105As, four YF-105Bs, six F-105Bs and three RF-105Bs) under the Weapon System
designation WS-306A.[5][9][10]


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/F-105_Thunderchief
By the time the F-105 mock-up had been completed in October 1953, the aircraft
had grown so large that the Allison J71 turbojet intended for it, was abandoned
in favor of an even more powerful Pratt & Whitney J75. Anticipating a protracted
development of the engine, it was expected that the first aircraft would use the
smaller Pratt & Whitney J57. Near the end of 1953, the entire program was
canceled by the USAF due to a number of delays and uncertainties regarding the
aircraft, however on 28 June 1954, the USAF officially ordered 15 F-105s (two
YF-105As, four YF-105Bs, six F-105Bs and three RF-105Bs) under the Weapon System
designation WS-306A.[5][9][10]

The YF-105A prototype first flew on 22 October 1955, with the second YF-105A
following on 28 January 1956.[9] In spite of being powered by a less potent
J57-P-25 engine with 15,000 pounds-force (67 kN) of afterburning thrust (the J75
was expected to generate 24,500 lbf (109 kN) with afterburner), the first
prototype attained the speed of Mach 1.2 on its maiden flight.[11] Both
prototypes featured conventional wing root air intakes and slab-sided fuselages
typical of the early jets; Republic viewed the YB-105As as not being
representative of the true capability of the aircraft due to numerous changes
prior to production.[12] Insufficient power and aerodynamic problems with
transonic drag, as well as Convair's experience with their F-102, had led to a
redesign of the fuselage in order to conform to the Area rule, giving it a
characteristic "wasp waist".



http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/General_Dy ... 1_Aardvark
Lacking experience with carrier-based fighters, General Dynamics teamed with
Grumman for assembly and test of the F-111B aircraft. In addition, Grumman would
also build the F-111A's aft fuselage and the landing gear.[20] The General
Dynamics and Grumman team faced ambitious requirements for range, weapons load,
and aircraft weight.[21] The F-111 design also included new features on a
production military aircraft, such as variable-geometry wings and afterburning
turbofan engines.[20]

The F-111A mock-up was inspected in September 1963. The first test F-111A was
rolled out of the General Dynamics' Fort Worth, Texas plant on 15 October 1964.
It was powered by YTF30-P-1 turbofans and used a set of ejector seats as the
escape capsule was not yet available.[18] The F-111A first flew on 21 December
1964 from Carswell AFB, Texas.[22] The first F-111B was also equipped with
ejector seats and first flew on 18 May 1965.[23][24]

To address stall issues in certain parts of the flight regime, the engine inlet
design was modified in 1965-66, ending with the "Triple Plow I" and "Triple Plow
II" designs.[25] The F-111A achieved a speed of Mach 1.3 in February 1965 with
an interim intake design.[18][25] Cracks in the F-111's wing attach points were
first discovered in 1968 during ground fatigue testing, and an F-111 was crashed
the following year due to the issue. The attach structure required redesign and
testing to ensure adequate design and workmanship.[26] Flight testing of the
F-111A ran through 1973.[27]

The F-111B was canceled by the Navy in 1968 due to weight and performance
issues, along with the need for additional fighter requirements.


shiv wrote:How many friends and relatives do you have who have said "I went abroad because I wanted to study or do research in areas which are simply not available in India". Perhaps you are yourself one such person, like I was. Perhaps you stayed abroad because what you did is still unavailable in India.

But if you look at the background of people who went abroad from India for this reason you find that the vast majority of them have a science/engineering/medicine background. You also find that "abroad" for these people did not mean Egypt, Uganda or Panama. It was always the USA or Western Europe.

There is a curious twin coincidence here that I would like to talk about.

Very few Indians went abroad saying "I want to learn cooking", or "I want to learn singing/pottery/catering". No one went abroad saying "I want to learn how to wash dishes and clothes" or "i want to learn how to grow rice", "I want to learn how to make bullock cart wheels". All these were available in India. It was science, technology and engineering that were not available.

And like a key fits a lock, that science, engineering and tech was not only available in the west, but they were paying people to go there. So "learning" was lucrative to boot. The very fact that you could go abroad to earn and learn while it was not possible in India should give you an example of how decrepit and undeveloped India was, and remains (in some areas) to this day. No wonder those hardworking Indians who went abroad were happy with their choice. And naturally, it was not Panama or Egypt that was attracting them.

So what about those who did not go? I am certain that most would have wanted to go for the same reasons but at least half stayed behind for lack of opportunity to go or lack of finances or some other hurdle. Maybe they could not pass TOEFL (Stooopiddd!) Or could not afford to travel to Lahore or Singapore to write the exam. Naturally these people did not get the opportunity to do what their peers were doing abroad. They would have sought and got employment in India, in an industrial and technical set up that was 100 years behind the west, where their "more successful" classmates and peers had gone. Some may have got employed in Hindustan Motors manufacturing Ambassadors. Others would have got employed in Birla cement plants. Still others would have joined DRDO, BEL, HAL.

And with research funding being next to nothing in India as the bean counters of Delhi looked for "value for money" these engineers languished in a set up that gave timed promotions, a pension but had no sympathy for failure as a path to success. They had to be content with assembly, screwdriver tech and saffron/white and green paint. Everything else was bound to fail except the employment and the pension. Even these people would have preferred to have gone abroad I am certain. If they were "failures" they failed only in getting out of a decrepit 17th century nation living in the 20th century.

Science and technology development means sinking money into failed products until something succeeds. All innovation is like that. When the government funds research, the government has to be ready for failures. Innovation and invention can be private investment or government investment. But the private investors of India, have never ever liked the idea of making investments in failure prone science research (Except Tatas) . Indian governments must get some credit for doing that, even if they did not have a clue as to what they were doing and how. The kept the DRDO and Public Sector enterprises alive despite a continues series of dismal failures and small advancements.

No businessman (Vysya) will sink money into an enterprise which will swallow money and give no returns in a reasonable time. All research is like that. It swallows money and gives no returns in reasonable, predictable time. And all sensible businessmen will dislike such investment. So the little money that has been sunk into research comes from the government and goes into government enterprises. But if you look back at names like Wright, Sikorsky, Douglas etc - it is all about private individuals sinking private money into failure prone research and eventually hitting the jackpot.

Where are the Indian private investors in risky science and tech research? Rich private businessmen funded Gandhi and supported Nehru before independence. What did they do for science research in the 50s, 60s and 70s? The government and businesses were being run by people who behaved like the stereotypical brahmins and banias who would not waste time and money on the shudra who could not deliver goods for a given price at a given time.

Unfortunately science and technology are not trade-able commodities that appear for a given price at a given time. But the west had learned that lesson 100 years before Indians even became aware. And Indians still don't seem to get it. We still behave like a feudal (kshatriya-brahmin) nation with rich traders/businessmen (vysyas) who flatly say they do not understand the problems of science research and ask how it is being done in the west. And like businessmen we find value for money in buying ready-made from the west and asking about how stupid our own shudra engineers in our factories are. But we do not want to fund research. We do not want to fund failure. We want delivery on time. These are excellent vysya business traits. But they are no good for science and tech leading to tech leadership. It is the shudra work that we need to foster and develop, expecting failures as we go along.

------------------------------------------------

As a think tank BRF owes it to the nation to provide with a vision on these defence industrial needs.

Perhaps a 15-20 chapter hardbound book can be made, not many but just 20 copies and through connections like Dr. Niran and others these books can be presented to PM, DM, Scientific Advisor, Amit Shah, General Shri V.K. Singh.

I was going to copy and email these posts to available BJP addresses but then thought it would be better to produce it in a hardbound book form (not a published book) and present them to the decision makers or their contacts.

Maybe these BRFites can take lead: Sarvashri Shiv, Jagan, Singha, Karan M, Ramana, Kartik, John, Rohitvats, Vivek Ahuja etc.

Maybe the book can be made from existing posts in Tejas, Arjun and naval threads or maybe fresh chapters written, I don't know just an idea.
Last edited by Manish_Sharma on 23 May 2014 09:34, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Narendra Modi vs the Dynasty: Contrasting Ideas of India

Postby member_28025 » 23 May 2014 09:27

krishnan wrote:most women are early to bed and early to rise type, esp homemakers


My brother is also an early to bed early to rise person. Got this habit from my late Mom who would wake us up at 6 in the morning. By the way I am a professional and when working from office (I now have a home office) was the first one in the office. I was also the first one to leave.

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Re: Narendra Modi vs the Dynasty: Contrasting Ideas of India

Postby Pratyush » 23 May 2014 09:36

Mean-e-while, dangerous stirrings in the Congress. They are looking to weed out RG's advisers. I shudder to think if he gets half decent adviser. What will happen. :((

More Congress voices speak up: Time to weed out Rahul’s coterie

Dilbu babu, I need you to Anti jinx the removal of his coterie.

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Re: Narendra Modi vs the Dynasty: Contrasting Ideas of India

Postby Hari Seldon » 23 May 2014 09:38

So could this be true - swearing in in Samskritam only?
Image

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Re: Narendra Modi vs the Dynasty: Contrasting Ideas of India

Postby krishnan » 23 May 2014 09:41

Shamlee wrote:
krishnan wrote:most women are early to bed and early to rise type, esp homemakers


My brother is also an early to bed early to rise person. Got this habit from my late Mom who would wake us up at 6 in the morning. By the way I am a professional and when working from office (I now have a home office) was the first one in the office. I was also the first one to leave.


yeah , my wife wakes up at 5:30 and finishes cooking by 7:30 as kid has to leave for school by 8:00 , bean easy for last 2 months though as school holidays

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Re: Narendra Modi vs the Dynasty: Contrasting Ideas of India

Postby Yagnasri » 23 May 2014 09:44

http://www.ndtv.com/elections/article/e ... ons-529124

Write a letter??? NM is not her cham cha like MMS for her to write to letter. Mafia queen learn to behave and if she does not she is going to learn very hard lessons from BJP people in any Lok Sabha debates.

SEEMS INDIA EMBASSY IN KABUL IS ATTACKED BY TALIBAN. FORTUNATELY THERE IS NO LOSS OF INDIAN LIVES. FIRE FIGHT IS ON. NAWAZ HAS GIVEN HIS RESPONSE TO INVITATION.

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Re: Narendra Modi vs the Dynasty: Contrasting Ideas of India

Postby nagesh » 23 May 2014 09:51

Anantha wrote:Nageshks
There is lot of BS floating around on Modi's plans; his cabinet, his SAARC plans, hiring technocrats and now this. Modi's close advisors have confirmed that all these are trial baloons floated by vested interests.
Even if Teesta sharing is true, feel rest assured, Modiji will do things that will ultimately benefit India. You can bet they already have plans for 2019 and which fruits should be shown to people at that time. Be rest assured in the next few years the opposition will have broken backs and will be fighting with Congis for Muslim votes.
Be calm and Trust Modiji, I have followed him for 10 years now. We have climbed the huge wall last week and we will succeed.


Let me reveal a small secret.A week before MMS was to go to Bangladesh to sign the exchange of conclaves ,leaving India with a net loss of 10000 acres,as well as sharing of Teesta waters ,I got an opportunity to speak at a FINS meet in Indore.I brought this to the notice of audience and requested them to write to their MPs .Ms Minakshi Lekhi ji ,who was present there,asked me for the data and carried it to a big BJP leader who prevailed upon Mamta. Subsequently Mamta di at the 11th hour refused to accompany MMS and Assam CM to Bangladesh....My role as a squirrel in saving our Teesta water.

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Re: Narendra Modi vs the Dynasty: Contrasting Ideas of India

Postby member_28025 » 23 May 2014 10:13

Gus wrote:rejoice birathers and sisters

http://www.dnaindia.com/mumbai/report-r ... ng-1990359
Robert Vadra's name will most likely be deleted from the list of passengers who are not to be frisked at airports, said officials of the civil aviation ministry and the Bureau of Civil Aviation Security (BCAS) on Wednesday. The order for the deletion is expected to be issued by the new government which is scheduled to assume charge on Monday.


Now that NDA has the majority, I propose the following changes to the current regulations:

- Security to PM and their close ones only during his/her tenure. Once the tenure ends, security should end as well.

- Only people with threat to their lives (as confirmed by IB) should get security

- Lal Batti strictly for very selected people and that too when they are on official business

- As MPs are getting a monthly salary, their whereabouts should be accounted for. If we as employees are entitled to 4-5 weeks leave, same should be done for MPs and Ministers.

- Increase the salary of MPs Ministers by 100% but no perks.

- For MPs, business class travel only if the air travel time is more than 6 hours.

- No free use of lounge at airports anybody.

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Re: Narendra Modi vs the Dynasty: Contrasting Ideas of India

Postby krishnan » 23 May 2014 10:24

salary by 100% :shock:

do you known how much they already earn ???

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Re: Narendra Modi vs the Dynasty: Contrasting Ideas of India

Postby member_20317 » 23 May 2014 10:26

RamaY wrote:So Pakis made their move. That too in Afghanistan. Good choice.


Usual stuff. Tactically brilliant strategically stupid.

The whole point of the invite was to :
1) cover for the Indian moves in getting the Afghans armed through the Rus route;
2) prove to the world that a right wing nationalist in Delhi is a far less concern for the friggin world peace then the piety in pissistan.

Both points proven.

Badmash gets to look like Kabila strongman with big warlords under him before a bunch of emaciated talipan. What a nutcase.

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Re: Narendra Modi vs the Dynasty: Contrasting Ideas of India

Postby SanjayC » 23 May 2014 10:31

krishnan wrote:salary by 100% :shock:

do you known how much they already earn ???


The salary is pathetic. It is the perks that cost the exchequer a bomb (free housing, free air and train travel, free electricity, free phone bills, quotas in railway tickets, etc.)

On August 27, 2010, Indian Members of Parliament voted themselves a threefold hike in their basic salary, from Rs 16,000 to Rs 50,000 and doubled the constituency and office expense allowances to 40,000 each. MPs will thus receive an assured income of Rs 1.3 lakh (a salary of Rs 50,000 plus constituency allowance of Rs 40,000 and office or stationary allowance of Rs 40,000) a month.

The repayable advance for purchase of a vehicle will go up from Rs 1 lakh to Rs 4 lakh with cheaper interest rate on the loan. The pension for former MPs will go up from Rs. 8,000 to Rs 20,000 a month.

An MP’s wage is tax-free and comes with additional perquisites such as free petrol, free telephone calls and free housing, some of it in the most expensive real estate in the country’s capital. Most household expenses – furniture, electricity, water, laundry - is also paid for by the State. MPs can travel anywhere in the country by rail, first class, and get 34 free air tickets for themselves or a companion a year. Spouses of MPs can travel free by air from their residence to New Delhi eight times a year when Parliament is in session and unlimited number of times by rail.

MPs also get a daily allowance of Rs 1,000 per day to attend Parliament and Rs 2 crore a year to spend on development of their constituencies as they see fit, a practice that many consider unconstitutional though the Supreme Court has upheld it

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Re: Narendra Modi vs the Dynasty: Contrasting Ideas of India

Postby Saral » 23 May 2014 10:34

Shamlee: Pretty decent suggestions to increase accountability. Politicians should be paid well, esp if scope for corruption is less or none.

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Re: Narendra Modi vs the Dynasty: Contrasting Ideas of India

Postby sum » 23 May 2014 10:36

Good to see INC back to its old self. Was getting worried for few days that they were actually trying to improve themselves:
Congress pins blame on Mossad among others for poor show in the Lok Sabha elections 2014

At formal and informal introspection sessions held for over past few days, Congress leaders are coming up with bizarre theories for their drubbing in the elections, right form blaming the Israeli intelligence Mossad, the Japanese communication agency Dentsu, the RSS and Congress state units. Everyone except vice-president Rahul Gandhi has been held responsible for their crushing defeat.

On Monday at the Congress Working Committee (CWC) meeting, general secretary Mohan Prakash dropped a bombshell, revealing that Israeli intelligence Mossad was in league with the RSS since 2009 to bring down the UPA government. Prakash when contacted refused to confirm, saying the discussions at the party forum were not meant for public consumption. Insiders, however, revealed that Prakash's version was that Israel was not happy with the UPA government since it had only limited political relations with Tel Aviv, unlike its predecessor the NDA.


Congress leaders admit the party has no future beyond or without the troika of Sonia, Rahul and Priyanka. Their charisma is still unmatched. At one of the sessions, when the idea of appointing Jyotiraditya Scindia to some top post or a working vice-president came up, it was immediately shot down. Senior leaders felt they cannot accept anyone as leader beyond the Gandhis.

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Re: Narendra Modi vs the Dynasty: Contrasting Ideas of India

Postby member_28025 » 23 May 2014 10:40

krishnan wrote:salary by 100% :shock:

do you known how much they already earn ???


INR 50,000 a month as per my information; an 100% increase would mean a salary of INR 100,000. however the perks that they get far exceed this INR 50,000. I got my info here http://www.firstpost.com/india/rs-50000 ... 37127.html.

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Re: Narendra Modi vs the Dynasty: Contrasting Ideas of India

Postby Pratyush » 23 May 2014 10:50

The introspection's by the INC resemble more and more the end of the Sultanata. As penned by GD.

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Re: Narendra Modi vs the Dynasty: Contrasting Ideas of India

Postby Pratyush » 23 May 2014 11:10

Delusional, arrogant Team Rahul strikes back at critics

I say that the prince ought to be encouraged.

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Re: Narendra Modi vs the Dynasty: Contrasting Ideas of India

Postby jamwal » 23 May 2014 11:12

RamaY wrote:Who is maintaining records of Kashmiri Hindu families?
Per internal sources (the deepest kind) each Kashmiri pundit family sent at least one son to Indian Special Forces :twisted:
They all will return to Kashmir with families.



Please ask your internal source to send me a pack of the finest herb he smokes. :lol:

Of doznes of Kashmiri Pandit families I'm aware of, I know only 2 armymen, neither in special forces. Classic response of a Pandit to any slight/insult/hit is "kashmiri jawaab talwaar se nahi, kalam se deta hai

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Re: Narendra Modi vs the Dynasty: Contrasting Ideas of India

Postby IndraD » 23 May 2014 11:22

What Modi is leaving behind is the salary he earned as chief minister in the last 13 years. According to a close aide, he intends to give away the money for a fund that would be used to educate children of the staff working at the chief minister's secretariat in Ahmedabad


http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/home ... 491589.cms

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Re: Narendra Modi vs the Dynasty: Contrasting Ideas of India

Postby Virupaksha » 23 May 2014 11:25

Shamlee wrote:Now that NDA has the majority, I propose the following changes to the current regulations:

- Security to PM and their close ones only during his/her tenure. Once the tenure ends, security should end as well.

Rajiv Gandhi was killed after his tenure for what he did during his tenure. Indian army chief A S Vaidya was killed for his role in Op blue star after his retirement.

We have had 2 prime ministers assasinated, one while in power and one after. Let there not be a case where a prime minister is afraid to take a decision because he/she or his/her personal family are threatened.

Former Andhra Pradesh home minister, A. Madhava Reddy was killed by maoists. Infact six months before his assasination, he changed his ministry to panchayat raj explicitly because of the threat. Is an extra expenditure of say even 1000 crores better or worse?
- Only people with threat to their lives (as confirmed by IB) should get security

This already happens. Modi/CBN were having a Z security since atleast 5 years. Many chief ministers do not.

There are some political pressures (less than 10%), but on the whole that is exactly what happens. It is just that with the maoist threat, the number of ministers who face it are very huge.

Remember for many posts, the post itself brings a security threat. No one cared about Obama before 2008, but now his threats increased thousand times, the moment he became the US president.
- Lal Batti strictly for very selected people and that too when they are on official business

Supreme court has already issued semi-decent guidelines. I agree with you that even that list should be trimmed extensively.

- As MPs are getting a monthly salary, their whereabouts should be accounted for. If we as employees are entitled to 4-5 weeks leave, same should be done for MPs and Ministers.

Every MPs whereabouts are accounted for within reasonable limits. No MP or high level bureacrat can leave India without permission from govt, because they represent the faces of indian diplomacy.
- Increase the salary of MPs Ministers by 100% but no perks.

- For MPs, business class travel only if the air travel time is more than 6 hours.

Dont confuse the position of MP with a job. In a job you have half decent job security. Every MP has to uproot himself to delhi and back to his own place from delhi after 5 years.

Give me set of guidelines which work for a andaman & nicobar mp. his costs of uproot, his need to be in constant touch with his electorate to represent them
- No free use of lounge at airports anybody.

unless on official business, where the money is paid back by govt. Technically free use of lounges is because the govt has given enormous subsidies to airports.

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Re: Narendra Modi vs the Dynasty: Contrasting Ideas of India

Postby VikramS » 23 May 2014 11:26

jamwal wrote:
RamaY wrote:Who is maintaining records of Kashmiri Hindu families?
Per internal sources (the deepest kind) each Kashmiri pundit family sent at least one son to Indian Special Forces :twisted:
They all will return to Kashmir with families.



Please ask your internal source to send me a pack of the finest herb he smokes. :lol:

Of doznes of Kashmiri Pandit families I'm aware of, I know only 2 armymen, neither in special forces. Classic response of a Pandit to any slight/insult/hit is "kashmiri jawaab talwaar se nahi, kalam se deta hai


Abbe, learn from Swamy: By the powers vested in him, RamaY declares all SF soldiers settling in Kashmir as KP.

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Re: Narendra Modi vs the Dynasty: Contrasting Ideas of India

Postby krishnan » 23 May 2014 11:40

yeah 1L is not bad, but they wont leave the perks, also MP's have various other quotas , like in KV, railways etc

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Re: Narendra Modi vs the Dynasty: Contrasting Ideas of India

Postby sum » 23 May 2014 11:51

From ToI report:
What Modi is leaving behind is the salary he earned as chief minister in the last 13 years. According to a close aide, he intends to give away the money for a fund that would be used to educate children of the staff working at the chief minister's secretariat in Ahmedabad.

Modi's suitcase will also not have any of the mementos that he has received from people over the last few months during his travels across the country. In fact, he hasn't kept any of the mementos given to him during his years as CM. He would have them auctioned every year in different districts with the highest bidder bagging items like "the CM's shawl". The money raised from these annual auctions was used for education of the girl child in the state.

Is this man even for real? Have to thank all the million Hindu gods to helping India get the perfect man to lead it forward


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