Indian Army: News and Discussions 15 Apr 2012

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Re: Indian Army: News and Discussions 15 Apr 2012

Postby Karan M » 19 May 2014 11:07

Kudos if both gent get this up and running. Some military efficiency for our jaded babus. ;)

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Re: Indian Army: News and Discussions 15 Apr 2012

Postby muraliravi » 19 May 2014 18:11

I am sure Modi is smart enough to do an intelligence check (background screen) on anyone he plans to take into the top 4 portfolios (home/defence/External affairs/Finance). So sushma auntee will never get entry.

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Re: Indian Army: News and Discussions 15 Apr 2012

Postby Rahul M » 19 May 2014 18:15

rakall wrote:
ASPuar wrote:ASPuar is back. Because the circumstances have suddenly become conducive again, after ten years.


Same here.. What a coincidence..

hear hear. I am back in mil forum as well, after the vanavas in GDF.

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Re: Indian Army: News and Discussions 15 Apr 2012

Postby Sanku » 19 May 2014 20:54

Present and reporting Sir.

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Re: Indian Army: News and Discussions 15 Apr 2012

Postby Philip » 20 May 2014 01:08

Lest we forget.Thousands of our countrymen who fought for "King and Country" lie in the sands of Mesopotamia ("Mespot") ,now Iraq,thanks to another historic British debacle.

ews > World > WW1 Moments
A History of the First World War in 100 Moments: Shambles on the Tigris - a general’s complacency and an abject surrender
Besieged in Mesopotamia, General Sir Charles Townshend allowed a crisis to turn into a catastrophe.
Patrick Cockburn on one of Britain’s great military disasters
Monday 19 May 2014

In the British military cemetery at Kut on the Tigris River 100 miles south of Baghdad, the tops of the tombstones used to be only just visible as they stuck out of a swamp full of small green frogs. A broken cement cross rose over a reed bed in the middle of the slimy water. Here in the middle of Kut, a poor dusty city built on a bend in the Tigris, are buried 500 British soldiers who died in the siege of the city in 1915-16.

The siege was part of a military campaign against the Turks that is largely forgotten, but should, even by the grim standards of the First World War, be a byword for terrible suffering inflicted on British soldiers by the incompetence, arrogance and ignorance of their commanders. Here and elsewhere in Iraq are buried the remains of some 40,000 British and Indian soldiers killed in 1914-18.

In most countries military cemeteries are carefully maintained places of solitude and grief, but in Iraq not even the dead rest in peace. When I saw Kut cemetery in 1998 it impressed me as a desolate symbol of a country collapsing into poverty and crime under the weight of military defeat and economic sanctions. I went back there last year and found that the swamp had been drained and the frogs were gone, but so too had most of the headstones with only the broken cross remaining.

General Sir Charles Townshend

Local people in Kut were respectful of my interest in the cemetery in the heart of their city, but were mystified about the conflict in which the soldiers had died. Iraqi school books give little mention to the war between the British and the Turks that raged up and down their country a century ago in which the Arab population were spectators whose main interest was in plundering the battlefields. Many in Kut believed the people buried in the cemetery had been killed in the Arab uprising against the British occupation in 1920.

There is less excuse for the British to know so little about the catastrophic campaign in 1915 when a small British force numbering some 13,000 men tried and failed to capture Baghdad. They had originally been landed in the far south of the country to prevent the Turkish army from disrupting crucial oil supplies from Iran. British generals on the spot, backed by their superiors in London and India, underestimated the Turks and wanted to win a cheap victory to counterbalance bad news from Gallipoli.

A British army under General Sir Charles Townshend advanced 300 miles from Basra to within a few miles of Baghdad. After suffering heavy losses, Townshend, an egomaniac obsessed with his own reputation, retreated to Kut in December 1915 where he was besieged for 147 days until he surrendered on 29 April 1916. Every blunder that could be committed was committed with terrible and unnecessary suffering inflicted on British and Indian troops. In terms of military failure, the siege of Kut was the First World War’s equivalent of the fall of Singapore in 1942.

Townshend lied about how much food he had to feed his soldiers, apparently hoping to encourage the swift relief of his force. This led to a series of disastrously premature attacks in which 23,000 British and Indian soldiers were killed or wounded. The Turkish army was tougher than it looked and this part of Iraq is bleak salt marsh which floods when the Tigris and Euphrates rise.

Wounded soldiers could end up spending two weeks lying close-packed and unattended on the decks of river vessels going to Basra while their wounds turned gangrenous and filled with maggots. Townshend forbade his troops from sending messages to their families by wireless, but sent frequent ones on his own behalf demanding promotion. He made no attempt to break through the Turkish siege lines.

The tragedy did not end with Townshend’s surrender. He went off to comfortable captivity on an island in the Sea of Marmara, showing more concern for the fate of his dog Spot than for the soldiers he left behind. Few officers stayed with their men, whom the Turks sent on a 1,300-mile forced march from Kut to Turkey. The soldiers died in their thousands of starvation, thirst, mistreatment and execution as well as diseases like typhus and cholera.

When survivors arrived in the Taurus Mountains for forced labour building a railway tunnel, Armenians already there, the few still alive after the mass slaughter of their people, were shocked by the plight of the skeleton-like figures who staggered into their camp. Overall, 70 per cent of the British and 50 per cent of the Indian soldiers who surrendered at Kut died in captivity.

All British military cemeteries are sad but few convey the same sense of melancholy and futility as those in Iraq. One that has survived best is in Baghdad in the Wazariya district of the city with a mausoleum at its centre to General Sir Frederick Maude who died of cholera soon after capturing the city in 1917. This was well maintained until Britain joined the invasion of Iraq in 2003, when it became too dangerous to water the grass between the tombstones that became burned brown by the scorching sun. Visiting became impossible after a bomb close to the entrance to the cemetery killed dozens of people.

In the summer of 2003 I was in al-Amara, the city which had been the launching point for British attacks on the Turkish trenches in repeated doomed attempts to relieve Kut. I was there because six British military policemen had been killed by an enraged Iraqi crowd in a town called Majar al-Kabir.

One day I saw a broken arch that did not look Iraqi and, when I went to see what it was, I found that it marked a British military cemetery where hundreds of soldiers had been buried, though the tombstones had mostly disappeared and the site had become a dumping ground for disused buses which were rusting away.

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Re: Indian Army: News and Discussions 15 Apr 2012

Postby Lalmohan » 21 May 2014 11:56

the mesopotamian campaign has been airbrushed over, it is forgotten and neglected in terms of historical coverage and analysis
perhaps because it was overtaken by bigger events both in the West and in India

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Re: Indian Army: News and Discussions 15 Apr 2012

Postby satya » 21 May 2014 20:43

My gr8 grandfather fought in Mesopotamia . IIRC , he was in one of British Indian Army Cavalry regiments ( one that had Jats ) . Can someone shed some light on a siege during or before or after world war 1 in Mesopotamia involving British Indian Army specially cavalry that was surrounded and had to eat their own horses and boil their own shoes before being rescued ? I remember this being told by my late grandfather about this apart from medals that my great grandfather won during his years in British Indian Army .

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Re: Indian Army: News and Discussions 15 Apr 2012

Postby member_23651 » 21 May 2014 22:05

My elder uncle served BIA in basra, iraq & singapore for WW2, as part of Central India Horse Regiment. Though they did not get the chance to fight, but had to guard captured German POW. I had a regiment magazine from that era but now lost :(

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Re: Indian Army: News and Discussions 15 Apr 2012

Postby symontk » 22 May 2014 06:42

My mother's uncle served BIA in Iraq for WW2. He was very happy he could see al the biblical cities and towns in Iraq

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Re: Indian Army: News and Discussions 15 Apr 2012

Postby Lilo » 25 May 2014 18:18

Suhag as Army Chief May Still Remain a Dream

Author: N C BIPINDRA

Published Date: May 25, 2014 8:06 AM

New government may junk the hurried, out-of-turn promotion of the Lt Gen made at the fag end of UPA II’s tenure

Lt Gen Dalbir Singh Suhag’s elevation as Army chief faces the possibility of being tripped even at this stage. Despite the clearance from the Appointments Committee of the Cabinet under outgoing Prime Minister Manmohan Singh, just three days before the UPA government was voted out, Suhag’s celebration on May 13 for being promoted as next Army chief seems only premature.

Sources with knowledge of the appointment issues pointed out to The Sunday Standard that there are at least three issues that could come in the way of Suhag occupying the exalted office on July 31 when incumbent Army chief General Bikram Singh retires.

At least two of these issues have not come out before and with the Narendra Modi government set to take office on Monday, these issues could play spoilsport for Suhag and the new government may review the outgoing UPA government's hurried decision.

Suhag’s appointment is yet to get President Pranab Mukherjee’s nod even 10 days after the Appointments Committee of the Cabinet, with then Defence Minister A K Antony and Home Minister Sushilkumar Shinde as members, approved his name for the post of Army chief.

Sources have pointed out the “possibility” that the new government may “not put up the file” before the President for approval and may decide on another officer as the Army chief.

The reasoning being given is that 59-year-old Suhag, who prefers to call himself as Dalbir Singh, was not qualified to be promoted as Army commander in the first place. He was under a Discipline and Vigilance ban, which prevents his promotion to the next rank, on May 31, 2012.

More importantly, he did not possess the mandatory two Annual Confidential Reports (ACRs) required as the Dimapur-based 3 Corps commander before he can even be considered for promotion as Army commander. Sources say for any Corps commander to be promoted as Army commander, he needed to possess at least two ACRs during his 11 to 13 months tenure as Corps Commander.

Suhag did not possess the mandatory two ACRs. This fact was overlooked. He should have had an ACR from his immediate superior of the time, then Eastern Commander General V K Singh. He had only one ACR,” a source said.

“The Appointments Committee of the Cabinet, which takes a call on promotion to Army commander, ignored this mandatory rule, which is also a convention. Suhag’s was the only case where this mandatory rule was given a go-by. His case was considered based on extraneous factors of keeping a succession plan in the Army going. Also, he was under a Discipline and Vigilance ban on the day. He should not have been promoted and even considered for promotion as Army commander,” he added.

The source noted that the Discipline and Vigilance ban is not imposed on an officer without reasonable evidence available to court-martial him. General Bikram Singh vacated the ban on Suhag 15 days after General V K Singh retired. General Bikram Singh had succeeded General V K Singh as Army chief.

Suhag had been placed under the ban by General V K Singh during the last days of his tenure as Army chief. This was seen by some as vendetta over the denial of 10 more months of Singh’s tenure as Army chief.

“The ban imposed was based on investigation by the Discipline and Vigilance branch of the Army headquarters and a court of inquiry into a botched-up intelligence operation in the Northeast and illegal killings. There were 15 other Army personnel court-martialed in the illegal killings case and one of them was dismissed while 14 others were delivered severe displeasure as punishment. Suhag too should have been court-martialed. He did not act on complaints of illegal killings that took place in 2010,” the source said.

The charge against Suhag is not reporting up the chain on the illegal killings and not taking any action against the accused personnel, despite a proper complaint,” the source added.

In fact, a case in the Supreme Court is now pending over the promotion given to Suhag in June 2012, after keeping the post of Army commander “reserved” for him by General Bikram Singh. The case has been filed by Lt Gen Ravi Dastane, who was then the next senior most Lt Gen in the Army and was eligible to be promoted as Army commander against the vacancy that was filled up with retrospective effect by Suhag.

Moreover, Suhag’s name had figured in a procurement scam when he was the commander of the Special Frontier Force (SFF), a specialist unit with Tibetans as its personnel to keep a watch along Chinese borders. Allegations flew thick and fast that kick-backs were paid in the purchase of parachutes for the SFF personnel. Suhag was a Major General when he headed the SFF.

The complaint with regard to the scam submitted by the then Trinamool Congress MP Ambika Banerjee was sent to the CBI by General V K Singh for investigation. This procurement scam too was not investigated adequately and the CBI case against Suhag was ignored when he was promoted as Army commander in 2012.

The spanner in the works for Suhag’s appointment as Army chief had come in the run-up to the just-concluded Lok Sabha polls when opposition BJP and General V K Singh, now the party’s Ghaziabad MP, raised questions over the “legitimacy” of Suhag being named as next Army chief just three days before UPA-II was voted out of power.


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Re: Indian Army: News and Discussions 15 Apr 2012

Postby Kakkaji » 25 May 2014 20:32

x-posting

Looks like Gen Suhag and Gen VK Singh cannot work together. Which means if VKS is appointed in defence ministry, then Suhag won't be chief, and vice-versa.

VKS is plugging for Dastane to be chief, and not for Ashok Singh who is VKS' relative.

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Re: Indian Army: News and Discussions 15 Apr 2012

Postby RoyG » 25 May 2014 22:43

The way that Suhag was rushed means he can probably be manipulated by the Congress. This is a dangerous position to have a cong mole.

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Re: Indian Army: News and Discussions 15 Apr 2012

Postby rakall » 25 May 2014 23:14

RoyG wrote:The way that Suhag was rushed means he can probably be manipulated by the Congress. This is a dangerous position to have a cong mole.


Every human being may have his faults/limitations, but don't expect a chief to let down his country.. Or do any disservice to the nation.. Lets hold ourselves to believe in our chief (until proven otherwise)..

Premature tagging of malafide intentions is counter-productive..

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Re: Indian Army: News and Discussions 15 Apr 2012

Postby member_23360 » 26 May 2014 05:26

On neutral grounds, an inquiry should be setup to investigate him and promote him if found non guilty.

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Re: Indian Army: News and Discussions 15 Apr 2012

Postby Victor » 26 May 2014 07:21

Question to ask is: why was it so important for the congis to hurriedly push Suhag in at the last minute that couldn't wait for the new govt? That too while breaking convention? His appointment is best avoided if at all possible and Gen VKS should know enough about that. Very likely, there is a group in IA that was favored by congis for whatever reason and at the least they need to be identified and kept close watch on. Maybe paranoid but its extremely difficult to trust anything the congis did.

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Re: Indian Army: News and Discussions 15 Apr 2012

Postby Austin » 26 May 2014 08:28

India Turns to Domestic Sources for New Air Defense Guns

NEW DELHI — After failing since 2007 to buy replacements for its Swedish-made L-70 air defense guns through global tenders, the Indian Ministry of Defence has decided to procure the guns only from domestic sources, in the Buy and Make (Indian) category.

Under that category, only domestic companies or their joint venture with overseas companies will be allowed to compete, provided 50 percent of the system’s components are indigenous.

While the move fits with a new policy designed to encourage domestic production, defense analysts and serving military officers are apprehensive about whether domestic sources will be able to meet the weapon requirements.

The Defence Ministry has sent a request for information (RFI) to domestic defense companies, including private sector Tata Power SED, Larsen & Toubro, Punj Lloyd, Bharat Forge, and state-owned Ordnance Factory Board (OFB) and Bharat Earth Movers, seeking information about their willingness and ability to compete for the tender, worth US $1.7 billion.

Global tenders for the guns attempted in 2007 and 2009 were canceled because of single-vendor situations: Rosoboronexport in 2009 and Rheinmetall in partnership with OFB in 2007.

Both tenders sought to procure 428 air defense guns, and required transfer of technology to OFB.

Several defense analysts fault the procurement process for the failed attempts to buy the air defense guns.

“The story is all too familiar even in this case; lack of foresight, poor planning, inadequate homework and no accountability in the MoD as well as the armed forces has led to the crisis in modernization of air defense in the Indian Army. There is limited appreciation of potential vendors who can qualify and their ability to subscribe to the tenders,” said Rahul Bhonsle, retired Indian Army brigadier general and defense analyst.

Rajinder Bhatia, CEO of private sector major Bharat Forge, cites the blacklisting of overseas defense firms as the larger issue.

“It is not the problem with the acquisition system but due to the fact that the best technology for this gun is owned by Rheinmetall Air Defense and a very large number of countries are using that technology. Rheinmetall Air Defense is, however, banned from business in India. And hence the problem.”

The domestic defense companies will need to tie up with overseas defense firms to manufacture the guns because none of the domestic firms has experience in selling the weapons, an MoD official said.

An Indian Army official said he is not sure if the domestic companies will be able to forge tie ups with overseas firms.

“We are already behind scheduled in buying several priority purchase for the defense forces, and we need to buy from the overseas market immediately and later rely on the domestic sector,” the official added.

Amit Cowshish, retired MoD official and defense analyst, favors giving a push to the domestic industry.

“The Indian industry does not have the capability and experience to make all the systems that the armed forces need, but if that is the deciding factor we will have to continue to buy from foreign sources. If we want to promote Indian industry, such measures are unavoidable. The ball is now in the court of the Indian industry, which must rise to the challenge by getting into tie-ups with the foreign original equipment manufacturer, investing in research and development and creating capacities within the country

“When procured, the air defense guns will be employed for providing air defense to selected locations in plains, deserts and mountain terrain and should be capable of being towed by an in-service gun-towing vehicle.”

The Army requires guns of a caliber greater than 30mm, and capable of engaging air targets day and night using fire control radars as well as electro-optical fire control systems independently.

The Indian Army has about 1,200 L-70 guns bought in the 1960s from Sweden. ■

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Re: Indian Army: News and Discussions 15 Apr 2012

Postby Pratyush » 26 May 2014 12:29

Regarding the case of General Suhag. I think that his nomination to the post of COAS. Was rushed by the INC, only to make him toxic for the next government.

This places the incoming government in a difficult position. They can overlook the nomination and be accused of partisan behavior. Or they can go along with the nomination in which case doubts can be planed in the minds of BJP supporters. About their ability to govern.

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Re: Indian Army: News and Discussions 15 Apr 2012

Postby member_25399 » 26 May 2014 12:49

News coming in that Modi will probably keep defence with himself !!

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Re: Indian Army: News and Discussions 15 Apr 2012

Postby rakall » 26 May 2014 13:25

Victor wrote:Question to ask is: why was it so important for the congis to hurriedly push Suhag in at the last minute that couldn't wait for the new govt? That too while breaking convention? His appointment is best avoided if at all possible and Gen VKS should know enough about that. Very likely, there is a group in IA that was favored by congis for whatever reason and at the least they need to be identified and kept close watch on. Maybe paranoid but its extremely difficult to trust anything the congis did.


Nothing.. Not a single thing that the UPA govt did after 12th May was dignified.. Outright foolish, childish & sulking..

Appt of Gen.Suhag, Handling of PMO handle on twitter, transfers of officials after PM had submitted resignation.. Why cant we have dignified transfer of power along with peaceful transfer of power??!!!

Thank god.. they did not sign the MMRCA agreement between 12th May to 16th May.

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Re: Indian Army: News and Discussions 15 Apr 2012

Postby RoyG » 27 May 2014 06:15

Thank god for Pranab. I'm sure he played a role in limiting the scorched earth policy by Congress.

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Re: Indian Army: News and Discussions 15 Apr 2012

Postby ravar » 30 May 2014 16:00

A few of my friends in Shimla had this experience a few days back. Tweeted the same to Hon Def Min and ADGPI (not sure whether it is the dept which takes public-feedback but could find only this one official handle of Indian Army on Twitter)

काकतालीय @kakataliya · May 28

@arunjaitley @adgpi Sir, just wanted to bring to your notice the experience that a few civilians had to undergo at ARTRAC Shimla. (1/n)

@arunjaitley @adgpi A few days ago a few civilians were turned away from a meeting which they had come to attend owing to the dress code(2/n

@arunjaitley @adgpi The civilians were in Kurta-Pyjama which I believe is an Indian dress code which represents our heritage. (3/n)

@arunjaitley @adgpi Sadly, the civilians were turned away since they were not dressed as per the Army's dress code of trousers and shirt 3/n

@arunjaitley @adgpi The question that arises is, should not this outdated system of dress code for civilians in the army be reformed? (4/n)

@arunjaitley @adgpi Kindly look into this issue as I believe the new Govt is being looked upon as a role model by millions of Indians (5/n)



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Re: Indian Army: News and Discussions 15 Apr 2012

Postby rohitvats » 30 May 2014 17:01

^^^Did the army intimate the dress code in advance for the meeting? They generally do and I'd be surprised if 'formal' were not mentioned which is generally meant to be shirt and trousers.

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Re: Indian Army: News and Discussions 15 Apr 2012

Postby ravar » 30 May 2014 17:28

^^
Since, all the Raksha Mantris turn up in Kurta-pyjamas (the former DM, AKA in dhoti) at all military establishments in India, is there any relevance to the 'formal' dress code at all.

And the bigger issue being why not 'formalize' kurta-pyjama/dhoti for civilians in such cases since these are part of the Indian heritage MORE than the Western definition of a formal attire.

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Re: Indian Army: News and Discussions 15 Apr 2012

Postby Austin » 04 Jun 2014 15:13


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Re: Indian Army: News and Discussions 15 Apr 2012

Postby member_28539 » 04 Jun 2014 16:05

@Austin Sir a few doubts from the article:

MoD delay has pushed back purchase of 145 M777 155mm / 39 calibre Ultra Light Howitzer’s, pending since 2010. Cost has now increased from USD 647 million to USD 885 million.


what is the basis of this price increase, is it something like quaterly prices as is done in all Pvt. International Firms for Imports to their buyers?

Already in operation. Substantial numbers of T-90’s to be upgraded with improved sighting, navigation and fire control systems


Substantial? We ready to have night blind T-90's :shock:

Indian Small Arms System (INSAS) Rifle replacement To be replaced through global route. Request for Proposal issued in November, 2011 for 60,000 assault rifles. Field trials underway. Induction likely to begin 2016 onwards. Transfer of Technology, will see Indian ordnance factories manufacture 1, 40,000 rifles.


So a Kick on the Backside for F-INSAS or Just Tavor Like off-the-shelf purchase followed by ToT for OFB?

Close Quarter Battle Carbines Requirement for 43,000 carbines. NA


What is Cooking here?

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Re: Indian Army: News and Discussions 15 Apr 2012

Postby member_28539 » 04 Jun 2014 16:10

rakall wrote:Thank god.. they did not sign the MMRCA agreement between 12th May to 16th May.


Thank god Sir! they must have forgotten it admist all the file destroying & election speculations!
:rotfl: :rotfl: :mrgreen:

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Re: Indian Army: News and Discussions 15 Apr 2012

Postby Rahul M » 05 Jun 2014 19:05

@Gen_VKSingh 3m

http://www.indianarmyveterans.gov.in Wonderful initiative aimed at helping the veterans.

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Re: Indian Army: News and Discussions 15 Apr 2012

Postby merlin » 05 Jun 2014 22:52

Rahul M wrote:@Gen_VKSingh 3m

http://www.indianarmyveterans.gov.in Wonderful initiative aimed at helping the veterans.


Has the IA abandoned the use of the term ex-servicemen in favour of veterans?

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Re: Indian Army: News and Discussions 15 Apr 2012

Postby Surya » 05 Jun 2014 23:46

what about air force and navy ?

Shouldn't it be one site for all??

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Re: Indian Army: News and Discussions 15 Apr 2012

Postby Akshay Kapoor » 05 Jun 2014 23:50

Victor wrote:Question to ask is: why was it so important for the congis to hurriedly push Suhag in at the last minute that couldn't wait for the new govt? That too while breaking convention? His appointment is best avoided if at all possible and Gen VKS should know enough about that. Very likely, there is a group in IA that was favored by congis for whatever reason and at the least they need to be identified and kept close watch on. Maybe paranoid but its extremely difficult to trust anything the congis did.


I have to say that Lt Gen Suhag is not widely respected by the rank and file. Neither was Bikram Singh. It is unfortunate that Suhag will become COAS. The army desperately needs a good COAS who can stand up to babus and stem the rot in the ethos that is coming in some (mercifully still very few) places. These things can be very corrosive. I say this with with a lot of responsibility.

Lt Gen Anil Chait would have been the best choice. And its been a very long time since an armoured corps officer has become a COAS anyway.

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Re: Indian Army: News and Discussions 15 Apr 2012

Postby Picklu » 06 Jun 2014 02:13

^^ Jeehard!!!!! No armoured corps officer as COAS till 3000 Arjun is in service :twisted:

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Re: Indian Army: News and Discussions 15 Apr 2012

Postby sum » 06 Jun 2014 08:39

NDTV defence journo says:
nitin gokhale
@nitingokhale

someone very respectable who met PM: he is concerned about lowered status of military."Unki izzat hum wapas lautayenge," Modi to this person


Hope this is true!

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Re: Indian Army: News and Discussions 15 Apr 2012

Postby merlin » 06 Jun 2014 10:19

Picklu wrote:^^ Jeehard!!!!! No armoured corps officer as COAS till 3000 Arjun is in service :twisted:


Second that :P

Good to see other opinions about the next IA chief not being "a soldier's soldier". Very important to hear other opinions.

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Re: Indian Army: News and Discussions 15 Apr 2012

Postby chetak » 06 Jun 2014 10:37

merlin wrote:
Rahul M wrote:@Gen_VKSingh 3m

http://www.indianarmyveterans.gov.in Wonderful initiative aimed at helping the veterans.


Has the IA abandoned the use of the term ex-servicemen in favour of veterans?



YES

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Re: Indian Army: News and Discussions 15 Apr 2012

Postby member_20453 » 06 Jun 2014 13:15

Akshay Kapoor wrote:
Victor wrote:Question to ask is: why was it so important for the congis to hurriedly push Suhag in at the last minute that couldn't wait for the new govt? That too while breaking convention? His appointment is best avoided if at all possible and Gen VKS should know enough about that. Very likely, there is a group in IA that was favored by congis for whatever reason and at the least they need to be identified and kept close watch on. Maybe paranoid but its extremely difficult to trust anything the congis did.


I have to say that Lt Gen Suhag is not widely respected by the rank and file. Neither was Bikram Singh. It is unfortunate that Suhag will become COAS. The army desperately needs a good COAS who can stand up to babus and stem the rot in the ethos that is coming in some (mercifully still very few) places. These things can be very corrosive. I say this with with a lot of responsibility.

Lt Gen Anil Chait would have been the best choice. And its been a very long time since an armoured corps officer has become a COAS anyway.



Gen Suhag being COAS has nothing to do with being widely respected. The man is known for being a Gorkha Rifle elite infantry man with a relentless attitude, he is a soldier's soldier. He is being put in quite clearly stelm the rot in ethos as you put. He is ideal for that. He is also not a softie, he is a true tactician. With him in charge SFF was converted in to a hard hitting covert Tier 1 force. The man understands Special forces and knows what makes them special. He has been chosen/recommended by other circles beyond the MOD/Govt, hence even the new Govt. was quick to dismiss the need to question this appointment. Gen Suhag will take over in July and I am glad he will be COAS.

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Re: Indian Army: News and Discussions 15 Apr 2012

Postby Akshay Kapoor » 06 Jun 2014 15:59

self deleted

Surya
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Re: Indian Army: News and Discussions 15 Apr 2012

Postby Surya » 06 Jun 2014 18:06

With him in charge SFF was converted in to a hard hitting covert Tier 1 force


source?

Men in charge can only do so much
the real push for changing things ie. resources has to come from Mod or the ministry in charge

so all this SFF transforming into tier 1 is all wishful thinking

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Re: Indian Army: News and Discussions 15 Apr 2012

Postby Rahul M » 06 Jun 2014 18:37

>> He has been chosen/recommended by other circles beyond the MOD/Govt

really ?? who is this uber influential entity ? sonia gandhi ?

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Re: Indian Army: News and Discussions 15 Apr 2012

Postby manjgu » 06 Jun 2014 19:07

:rotfl: :rotfl: :rotfl: or is it Raga??

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Re: Indian Army: News and Discussions 15 Apr 2012

Postby member_20453 » 06 Jun 2014 19:21

The change in training at SFF is what turns them into a Tier-1 force (equipment is secondary), also keep in mind, SFF were the first SF units in the IA to recieve Tavors, proper sights, Laser desginators and other advanced equipment that are used now by other SF units in country. SFF men also have among the harshest training in the country. Also, unlike Para-SF & Para-Airborne their employment/roles on the battlefield are very clear, they have never had any dilution in standards, they have if anything had their standards raised more than a notch.

From what I hear, recommendations came in from various corners of RAW, IB, NSA, it is not about 1 super influential entity rather quite a few. Our Gen Suhag has quite some history working with RAW.

Do note, the new Govt. didn't make any fuss about it regardless of plenty of internal opposition.


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