Sunni Terrorist Fragments of Unstable Pakistan - 21 Apr 2014

sanjaykumar · Post by **sanjaykumar** » 29 May 2014 23:10

She surely reads this board. I posted some time ago what I think was the first reference to the Black Knight of Monty Python.

(Another reason to be gentlemanly in any critique, the female dog aspersion was in quite poor taste).

vishvak · Post by **vishvak** » 29 May 2014 23:12

Hopefully NaMo sarkar don't offer any toehold for nonsense that passes off as religious strictures in STFUP, including infiltration without minimum 10 times advantage wrt strategic land gains.

Gus · Post by **Gus** » 29 May 2014 23:43

yikes..that 'stoning of pregnant women by own family' story -

if you thought it could not get any more ghastly..think again..this is pakistan after all

http://www.cnn.com/2014/05/29/world/mea ... r-killing/

The husband of Farzana Parveen, the Pakistani woman stoned to death for refusing to participate in an arranged marriage, told CNN he killed his first wife so he could marry Parveen .

and MORE

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldne ... amily.html

Her stepson Aurangzaib, who uses only one name, said on Thursday that Ms Parveen’s older sister, Rehana, was poisoned by the family four years ago.

“She was married and wanted to live with her husband,” he said. “It was an arranged marriage but later her family developed issues with in-laws of her sister and started demanding her to leave her husband. When she denied doing so, one day the family invited her at their home and poisoned her.”

yeah..they are just like us

Peregrine · Post by **Peregrine** » 30 May 2014 00:26

Modi bullied Sharif over terrorism, showed him the way forward: Pak journalist

ISLAMABAD: Prime Minister Narendra Modi "bullied" his Pakistani counterpart Nawaz Sharif over terrorism at their first meeting, a writer in a Pakistani newspaper said on Thursday.

Jalees Hazir said in The Nation that Modi not "only bullied him over terrorism and (the) Mumbai attack but also showed him the way forward ... brushing issues of importance to Pakistan ... under the carpet.

"The irony is that though he might not be able to say it in so many words, this also seems to be our prime minister's lopsided blueprint for peace with India," said Hazir, a freelance columnist.

A day after he took oath as Prime Minister, Modi held bilateral meetings with Sharif and leaders of other Saarc nations and Mauritius who attended his swearing-in ceremony.

Pakistani officials said the Modi-Sharif meeting went off very well.

Hazir said: "Our prime minister's platitudes about peace and cooperation seemed more than a bit out of place in the face of the thorny issues highlighted by the Indian side. Had he been invited to be lectured by the new Prime Minister of India?

"Actually, it was Modi's harsh lecturing of a guest which was in bad taste..."

"The prime minister's desire for friendly ties with India is all very well but it obviously takes two to tango. And anyone following Modi's campaign should have known that he was in no mood to dance."
Cheers

ramana · Post by **ramana** » 30 May 2014 01:01

SSridhar, Is Jealous Hazir an ISI plant?

And wonder how Pakis get theri bogus names!!!

abhishek_sharma · Post by **abhishek_sharma** » 30 May 2014 01:22

link to article by Jealous hazir

Prasad · Post by **Prasad** » 30 May 2014 02:09

Level of discourse - Your democracy might be fine but all y'all be ugly! (https://twitter.com/seemasirohi/status/ ... 6578794496)

Folks, the YesAllWomen is a hashtag used by women to post about harassment. Go take a look.

SSridhar · Post by **SSridhar** » 30 May 2014 04:23

Amid new bonhomie, Govt. may explore fuel supply to Pakistan & Bangladesh - Business Line

Prem · Post by **Prem** » 30 May 2014 05:06

Dessert Aft Dinner

Anujan · Post by **Anujan** » 30 May 2014 06:16

Pakistani politicians are tall, fair with tight musharrafs primarily because of eating wheat and meat. Indian politicians are like Mayawati and Moraji Desai. Short, dark, ugly, rice eating. Their army is also tall and fair. Havent won anything so far but pretty impressive in appearance.

SSridhar · Post by **SSridhar** » 30 May 2014 06:41

Anujan wrote:Their army is also tall and fair. Havent won anything so far but pretty impressive in appearance.

As Eisenhower's foreign secretary John Foster Dulles said after reviewing a parade in Pakistan and meeting Gen. Ayub Khan, "ramrod straight and like out of a Hollywood movie"

SSridhar · Post by **SSridhar** » 30 May 2014 06:44

Anujan wrote: Their army is also tall and fair. Havent won anything so far but pretty impressive in appearance.

They don't need to win anything in particular. Mere survival against India is their victory as Ms. C.Fair recalls in the transcript above.

SSridhar · Post by **SSridhar** » 30 May 2014 07:25

Shiv, you have message.

jash_p · Post by **jash_p** » 30 May 2014 07:26

A O A !!!!!!!!!!!!

'No more drone strikes in Pakistan'

Officials say opportunities for drone attacks will dwindle further as the CIA and the military draw down in Afghanistan.

WASHINGTON: The CIA's targeted killing program in Pakistan, once the mainstay of President Barack Obama's counterterrorism effort, is winding down.

Because of stricter rules, diplomatic sensitivities and the changing nature of the al Qaeda threat, there hasn't been a US drone strike in Pakistan's tribal areas since Christmas. And American officials say opportunities for drone attacks will dwindle further as the CIA and the military draw down in neighboring Afghanistan, reducing their intelligence-gathering footprint.

Its time to celebrate. National bird of Pakistan is now extinct like dinosaurs.

abhishek_sharma · Post by **abhishek_sharma** » 30 May 2014 07:29

Survival of the plural: Khaled Ahmed

partha · Post by **partha** » 30 May 2014 07:58

jash_p wrote:A O A !!!!!!!!!!!!
'No more drone strikes in Pakistan'
Its time to celebrate. National bird of Pakistan is now extinct like dinosaurs.

Quote from an op-ed to be published in a Pakistani news paper in 2017 -

Increase in terrorism in Pakistan can be attributed to abrupt ending of drone program by the US in 2014 prior to its withdrawal from Afghanistan. Just like after the end of the Soviet war in the late 80s, US stopped the drone program after it achieved its objectives in Afghanistan there by forcing Pakistan to clean up US mess on its own once again. Stopping of drone program has resulted in $30 Billion loss to Pakistan's economy. At the least, US should compensate Pakistan with more F16s or hand over the drone technology so that Pakistan can continue the drone program.

Prem · Post by **Prem** » 30 May 2014 08:30

http://www.nation.com.pk/sports/30-May- ... dian-visit
Pak players hope PM discussed cricket on Indian visit

KARACHI - Some of Pakistan's top players, including Shahid Afridi and Shoaib Akhtar, have expressed hope that the issue of bilateral cricket ties with India was discussed by Pakistan prime minister Nawaz Sharif, on his flying visit to the country. Former Pakistan quick Akhtar pointed out that cricket had always played a big role in bringing the people of the two countries closer. "I am happy that our prime minister is in India and I hope cricket ties are discussed in these big meetings," Akhtar told PTI. "Because it is necessary to have bilateral cricket ties between the two countries. "It is particularly important for Pakistan, as whenever Pakistan and India play against each other these matches bring financial rewards for both boards and the PCB in particular needs a financial boost." Akhtar said that he would also like to see the issue of Pakistan players in the IPL being resolved soon. "If things continue the way they are, I have a feeling by end of this year the Indians will take a decision on allowing our players in the IPL," he said. All-rounder Afridi also wanted to see more India-Pakistan series' in future. "I hope with our prime minister also going to India, the Indian board responds positively and we see bilateral matches soon," he said.Former Pakistan captain Younis Khan also backed the restoration of bilateral cricket ties. "Our prime minister himself has played cricket and is a keen student and follower of cricket, so I am sure this subject would have been discussed by him in these meetings," Younis said in Lahore.

JE Menon · Post by **JE Menon** » 30 May 2014 09:18

C.Fair's interview is so refreshingly honest that given her background I suspect she is on some kind of medication. It is that blunt. Rare from an American.

ramana · Post by **ramana** » 30 May 2014 09:22

As spinster points out she totally ignores US role in TSP evolution or rather regression.

jrjrao · Post by **jrjrao** » 30 May 2014 10:19

On a current web page of the stinking and sinking (but for Jeff Bezos) Washington Compost, there is this page titled:

Monkey Cage

And appropriately, on this same page right now, two monkeys have been let loose. First Monkey is named Adnan Naseemullah (John Hopkins Univ) and the second monkey is named Gilles Verniers (Ashoka University).

Both these equal-equal monkeys have come up with this monkey farticle:

Is India following in Pakistan’s footsteps?

As the dust clears from the 2014 Indian election, Narendra Modi is Prime Minister and the Bharatiya Janata Party (BJP) is the largest party in the Lower House of Parliament. These election results... are seen by many as unprecedented. But a precedent does exist... The 2013 National Assembly elections in Pakistan bore remarkably similar results to the 2014 Lok Sabha elections in India.

The elections of 2013 (in Pakistan) and 2014 (in India) have set up dynamics that may threaten development and effective governance for the next half-decade.

As I said, give two monkeys a bucket of Pindi chanaa, and also a healthy flask of good single malt whiskey, and they will come up with a Washington Post farticle like this.

Vikas · Post by **Vikas** » 30 May 2014 11:14

SSridhar wrote:
Anujan wrote: Their army is also tall and fair. Havent won anything so far but pretty impressive in appearance.
They don't need to win anything in particular. Mere survival against India is their victory as Ms. C.Fair recalls in the transcript above.

TSPA motto ,"Sometimes not losing itself is victory"

Agnimitra · Post by **Agnimitra** » 30 May 2014 11:41

Prasad wrote:Level of discourse - Your democracy might be fine but all y'all be ugly! (https://twitter.com/seemasirohi/status/ ... 6578794496)

Pakistani legislators, particularly the women, fight about good looks and sexy English skills in the Sindh assembly.

Pakistani lawmakers make fine distinctions between "make-up" and "face painting". They also believe that good looks can be used to overwhelm and overawe the opposition. Perhaps that's one of their war-making tactics against the SDRE Indians.

See the above video beginning from 2:30 - http://youtu.be/oz5lGaF3fRc?t=2m24s

partha · Post by **partha** » 30 May 2014 13:11

Reliance takes over big Indian news group. Corporate control of media impedes its freedom, vibrancy and independence. A big challenge to South Asian media. While ISI only sprays a few bullets killing the drivers of journalists, big corporations kill the soul of journalists.

btw, "south asian court of human rights"

http://tribune.com.pk/story/714983/is-a ... -possible/

Is a South Asian Court of Human Rights possible?

JE Menon · Post by **JE Menon** » 30 May 2014 13:35

Sherry says of our cabinet in the video: "Wall to wall ugliness"

This shite is gold...

SSridhar · Post by **SSridhar** » 30 May 2014 13:49

ramana wrote:As spinster points out she totally ignores US role in TSP evolution or rather regression.

Ramana, she not only ignored but she also defended in one instance the US action when she said that Pakistan was already into the Afghan jihad and the first American dollars arrived in Afghanistan only in 1982.

Now, we know how blatantly untrue that is.

In his 1996 memoirs, former CIA director Robert Gates writes that the American intelligence services actually began to aid the mujahudeen guerrillas in Afghanistan not after the Soviet invasion of that country, but six months before it. And in a 1998 interview with the French weekly magazine Le Nouvel Oberservateur,former president Carter's National Security Adviser,"Zbigniew Brzezinski, unambiguously confirmed Gates's assertion.

"According to the official version of history,"Brzezinski told the Nouvel Oberservateur,, "CIA aid to the mujahideen began during 1980, that is to say, after the Soviet army invaded Afghanistan on December 24, 1979. But the reality, closely guarded until now, is completely otherwise: Indeed it was July 3, 1979, that President Carter signed the first directive for secret aid to the opponents of the pro-Soviet regime in Kabul. And that very day, I wrote a note to the president in which I explained to him that in my opinion this aid was going to induce a Soviet intervention."

When asked whether he regretted these actions, Brzezinski replied:
"Regret what? That secret operation was an excellent idea. It had the effect of drawing the Russians into the Afghan trp and you want me to regret it? The day that the Soviets officially crossed the border, I wrote to President Carter, essentially: 'We now have the opportunity of giving to the USSR its Vietnam War."

But, I would still forgive her this time for two reasons. One is that this talk was about the mentality of the Pakistani Army. Secondly, the 'enduring hostility' that is imprinted in their genes would have found some other partner even if the US had not become their prime backers since the early 1950s. There is a long history of over 800 years behind that hostility and an ideology of over a thousand years that far, far precede the American intervention.

SSridhar · Post by **SSridhar** » 30 May 2014 13:54

Agnimitra wrote:Pakistani lawmakers make fine distinctions between "make-up" and "face painting".

I am yet to see the video, but I can understand the hair-splitting on this issue. Islam forbids 'make-up' by women as that alters what is given by Allah. Face-painting, after all, could be argued as no crime against Allah's will or at least a lesser crime, if at all.

shiv · Post by **shiv** » 30 May 2014 14:22

JE Menon wrote:Sherry says of our cabinet in the video: "Wall to wall ugliness"

This shite is gold...

Boy is she pretty herself - makes me want to ~~puke~~ er swoon.

SSridhar · Post by **SSridhar** » 30 May 2014 14:56

ramana wrote:SSridhar, Is Jealous Hazir an ISI plant?

And wonder how Pakis get theri bogus names!!!

I have never heard his name before.

anupmisra · Post by **anupmisra** » 30 May 2014 15:00

VikasRaina wrote:TSPA motto ,"Sometimes not losing itself is victory"

During war time, their theme martial marching song is "We are not retreating...we are advancing to the rear"

Vikas · Post by **Vikas** » 30 May 2014 15:38

anupmisra wrote:
VikasRaina wrote:TSPA motto ,"Sometimes not losing itself is victory"
During war time, their theme martial marching song is "We are not retreating...we are advancing to the rear"

JE Menon · Post by **JE Menon** » 30 May 2014 16:04

First thing that struck me when I saw Sherry's video was that she looked like a shemale - a case of my aunt actually having balls and screwing up that wonderful one-liner.

schinnas · Post by **schinnas** » 30 May 2014 16:43

Regarding us commenting on sherry's looks, I am reminded of a Mark Twain quote.

Never argue with stupid people. They will drag you down to their level and then beat you experience.

A_Gupta · Post by **A_Gupta** » 30 May 2014 17:00

So, re: C.C. Fair's new book: the ideas that Pakistan is driven by ideological and not security compulsions; that the jihad policy began in 1947 during the tenure of the oh-so-secular-Jinnah and not with Zia ul Haq 30 years later, are not new to Indians. In fact, one of the questions to C.C. Fair, roughly, "these ideas are current in India, how has your book been received in India?", was, IMO, politely telling her that these ideas are not original. (What may be new is the study based on Pakistan defense journals and surveys in Pakistan.)

What was new to me was the idea that the Pakistan Army considers it as a victory if it lives to fight another day. Perhaps it was not new to some perspicuous BRFers. But it raises a problem - it is very unlikely that India can so utterly annihilate the Pakistani Army that it cannot rise again and fight. It suggests then, that the only way forward is to make Pakistan utterly irrelevant. That is a hard thing to do with a country that fights jihad under a nuclear umbrella.

Even if new American thinking like C.C. Fair's result in the US ending what Fair terms a policy of appeasement towards Pakistan, there is still China; and even if China is somehow weaned off of Pakistan, there will still be Saudi Arabia, to continue to prop up Pakistan. (And I think C.C. Fair, despite her Georgetown, U.Chicago credentials is an outsider in the US establishment.) And the IMF, World Bank will keep bailing out Pakistan from its regular financial crises.

So what is India to do?

Just as C.C. Fair's book is being translated and published in Hindi, we need to get these views of Pakistan widely disseminated in India in all languages, so that any remaining Manmohan-Singh-type romanticism about Pakistan is utterly annihilated. I think the non-Anglophile Indian already grasps this; the Anglophile Indians will be convinced when Massa is singing the same song.

Then just like the Independence movement, and like what Modi said in his Ahmedabad speech, that development should become a national cause, the containment, encirclement and enfeeblement of Pakistan should become a national cause. It will be a long slog, but what else is there to do? The karma of letting a pernicious ideology take hold and thrive in India for several hundred years will be hard to work off.

SSridhar · Post by **SSridhar** » 30 May 2014 17:09

A_Gupta wrote: . . . we need to get these views of Pakistan widely disseminated in India in all languages . . .

A couple of days back, I was introduced to a senior IAS officer and the discussion turned to Pakistan and the Modi-NS meet. The IAS gentlemen never believed that Pakistan was capable of so much mischief as I began discussing with him. I was amazed by his disbelief ! I don't know who was more amazed at the end of it, him or me.

anupmisra · Post by **anupmisra** » 30 May 2014 17:34

A map where bakistan is the new center of the known world. Should be saved and displayed prominently like that photo of Generalismo Na Na Niazi signing the instrument of surrender at Dacca. Ironic that the color used is pink.

A_Gupta · Post by **A_Gupta** » 30 May 2014 17:39

Some C.C. Fairisms:
0. "...I argue in the book that Pakistan's issues with India are ideological, they are philosophical, they are basically - it's a civilizational conflict that Pakistan has set up, and therefore how can you resolve a civilizational conflict by resolving a contentious border?"

1. "I see the Pakistan Army more as international insurgents".

2. "To the Pakistan Army absolute acquiescence is real defeat".

3. "When the Indians think about taking on Pakistan, they think about defeating Pakistan. What Pakistan's military needs to survive an engagement is just the ability to mount another confrontation."

anupmisra · Post by **anupmisra** » 30 May 2014 17:41

Revenge of the iSith. Van carrying Jang, The News bundles set on fire in 'pindi

Eight to ten armed men attacked the van and set it on fire after dousing it with petrol.

the attackers were carrying pistols and Kalashnikovs.

In a similar attack unidentified bike riders set a vehicle carrying bundles of the Daily Jang and The News on fire in Lahore on Sunday

Question: how many pakis does it take to set a van on fire? Answer: Ten. One to douse the van with petrol and light the match, two to hold back the driver, four to act as look out men, two to direct traffic around the burning van, and the last one to videotape it.

CRamS · Post by **CRamS** » 30 May 2014 17:43

A_GuptaJi,

As always excellent points. One factor I was hoping for is the continued damage Paki Taliban would do to TSPA. But that seems to be abating by the day? Or are we witnessing a lull before the storm?

SSJi,

Ditto. I have almost given up talking about TSP perfidy with any of my friends/acquaintances simply because its a waste of time. (I come across as "Hinduthva looney" a mirror image of Paki terrorists which is how many characterize my views). Most often their grouse with India is so deep, mainly centered on corruption and other pitfalls, that it is impossible for them to see that however depraved India might be in their minds, and no doubt that needs fixing, but TSP's ideology of undoing India stands on its merit that must be fought and defeated.

rajpa · Post by **rajpa** » 30 May 2014 17:58

CFair analysis does seem a bit like a spurned wench spitting fire on her TFTA ex-amour. She has however brought out some very interesting and legitimate analysis. This analysis is more or less well known among all forpol observers, which India may be able to use to its advantage going forward.

Some points of her analysis - and corresponding global thought that goes with it:
1. Indian professional defence journals vs paki "memoirs" - "lack of professionalism in TSPA? sell more arms, training etc"
2. Pakistani "security seeking" vs greedy - "greed is a virtue in some western capitals"
3. TSP constitution being an apartheid constitution - "really? they will change over time"
4. TSP having no legitimate claim on Kashmir - "who cares? war is war."
5. TSPA - a global insurgent - "but it is india focused, right?"

The actual reasons for TSP being successful at what it is - a global insurgent - are beginning to be addressed here. But since most of this is well known, four fathers have already formulated their strategies for their own benefits. But what are our lessons learnt?

TSP is really like a rat country waiting to feed on the blood of India, requesting for four fathers help to hunt India down in the first place. They keep the thirst for the hunt alive in the western capitals. This is necessarily pursued as a nefarious activity and as the saying goes "all is fair.." and hence it is recognized as a legitimate activity in the ethereal areas of realpolitik. We need to push the shoe back to the other side.

Our attempts to manage this perception of war have been just mildly successful. We have so far only presented our posture that Kashmir is an integral part of India - which has been sold by TSP to all watchers as a retreating posture.

There should be a proper raisin dieter from our own side to fight this piskological war.

Some options:
1. Deny there is a war today.
2. Declare that the war is over and that India has won it.
3. Declare there is a war and use any means necessary to fight. Bring TSP's alliance partners to our side and smash TSP's support structure.
4. Overtly declare there is peace and covertly damage TSP by all means necessary.

Infact, we may even need some stronger postures than these. I leave it to BRFites to conjecture further.

-JMT

shiv · Post by **shiv** » 30 May 2014 18:13

A_Gupta wrote: What was new to me was the idea that the Pakistan Army considers it as a victory if it lives to fight another day. Perhaps it was not new to some perspicuous BRFers. But it raises a problem - it is very unlikely that India can so utterly annihilate the Pakistani Army that it cannot rise again and fight. It suggests then, that the only way forward is to make Pakistan utterly irrelevant. That is a hard thing to do with a country that fights jihad under a nuclear umbrella.

In fact the idea that survival is victory was known to me. It is often stated by RAPEs as well as Paki army types. But not many people outside of BRF seem to know much of what Fair says.

However.. there is a third option. For no real reason Fair may have made me persona non grata on her Twitter account - I think she got pissed off by my smart aleck but non vulgar replies. But what I wanted to ask her was the idea that I have - that is gradually make the Pakistan army weaker and weaker and weaker. Given Pakistan's economy their military is dependent mostly on aid. That aid will have to stop - particularly US aid. Saudi and Chinese aid IMO are less relevant. Already the Pakistan army is "international insurgents" (International Gorillay?) as Fair says. Push it so far down the path that they have no chance of winning conventional war against even a relatively weak adversary. They will, of course have nukes - but it needs to be made expensive for them. No electricity, no literacy, no human development but an expensive nuclear program and an army that gets no aid but grabs money from the country. This is what Pakistanis deserve and I would not worry too much about the consequences. There are no consequences that I can think of that would be set in motion by a weak Paki army that cannot be done by a strong army - so I can't see why there will be any increased risk of anything. People will argue that they will be more likely to use nukes - but they are already at a stage when they have openly threatened or readied nukes. So we are past that.

The only downside of such a plan is that they will get angry with the US for not giving them military aid and the US, afraid of proliferation will cave in. The biggest irony is the number of years I have spent on BRF being told by "Rah Rah America" BRFites that the US is so powerful they can twist Pakistan around their little finger. How wrong that assessment has been. The US has always caved in first. But Pakistan is basically collapsing internally - there is no Christine Fair to document that.

One take away from the Fair video is that 40 plus percent of Paki children are not even in primary school (Haqqani says that). Pakistan is heading steadily towards failed state - but the Army continues to grab extra resources despite US aid. The The Paki army thrives on defeat and survival. It is survival without war or defeat that needs to be made difficult for the Paki army.