Narendra Modi vs the Dynasty: Contrasting Ideas of India

IndraD · Post by **IndraD** » 30 May 2014 21:22

After talks on to withdraw Vadra frisking immunity, Priyanka plays emotional card dares center to withdraw SPG cover to her & children as well

arminius · Post by **arminius** » 30 May 2014 21:48

IndraD wrote:After talks on to withdraw Vadra frisking immunity, Priyanka plays emotional card dares center to withdraw SPG cover to her & children as well

Do it pronto and while they are it take back that bungalow too. Koi sympathy nahi

SanjayC · Post by **SanjayC** » 30 May 2014 22:25

Just read on Twitter that Sadhvi Pragya has been released. Great news if true.

vic · Post by **vic** » 30 May 2014 22:25

Stop torturing honest SPG chaps who have to bear the ugly mug and shrill temper tantrums of vodka.

Frederic · Post by **Frederic** » 30 May 2014 22:38

SanjayC wrote:Just read on Twitter that Sadhvi Pragya has been released. Great news if true.

Great news! SanjayC any links?

ramana · Post by **ramana** » 30 May 2014 22:40

Arjun, If his intent was to convey to US govt then he would not have written in ReDiff but in NYT!

My takleef is the larger than real imagined shadow of US in India that article portrays.

Vikas · Post by **Vikas** » 30 May 2014 22:40

IndraD wrote:After talks on to withdraw Vadra frisking immunity, Priyanka plays emotional card dares center to withdraw SPG cover to her & children as well

First please get out of free govt accommodation..

Vikas · Post by **Vikas** » 30 May 2014 22:41

Why is Burkha Dutt tweeting on behalf of Priyanka ?

Vikas · Post by **Vikas** » 30 May 2014 22:43

Heard on Twitter that Priyanka Vadra Grand Daughter of Sh. Feroz shah was seen visiting Hindu temples in Kashmir.

SanjayC · Post by **SanjayC** » 30 May 2014 22:45

Frederic wrote:
SanjayC wrote:Just read on Twitter that Sadhvi Pragya has been released. Great news if true.

Great news! SanjayC any links?

Many people are talking about this on Twitter. Search Sadhvi Pragya on Twitter and see the tweets. Don't know if it is just a rumour or it's a fact.

manju · Post by **manju** » 30 May 2014 22:45

AnantS wrote:Sardesai getting sirdard(headache):
Modi must shun adversarial politics and attempt political reconciliation

Read the comments. Looks like we have B-rakshaks all over now!

svinayak · Post by **svinayak** » 30 May 2014 22:52

ramana wrote:
Anantha wrote:http://www.rediff.com/news/column/how-m ... id=twshare

Assem Shukla on how Modi baiting back fired in the US... a good read

This is a superficial article. Demonization by US did not build up Modi. Its the power vacuum in Delhi that made the gentle BJP wave into a Powerful TsuNamo!!!

US backed the wrong horse/ass as it has invested and cultivated it and was getting daily briefings from MMS as admitted by Omabba.

The power vacuum is also due to the media image controlled by the western media corporation on INC and Idea of India.

This cold war requirement of keeping Indian elite and leadership as friends of the western elite was handled using the western media and image building of the ruling party in India. It is similar in Egypt, Indonasia etc and many other third world countries. China was similar with a different strategy.

The Indian ruling elite believed that this is long term and actually thought itself as a permanent ruling group within the Indian society. This elite became westernized and de racinated in the last 50 years and lost their connection to the common people and masses. They also controlled the Indian media and tried to show that they are friends of the western baby boomers. The last 20 years of crony capitalism of the west sucked this Indian group into corruption and Balck money with $1T in the western banks. They wanted to keep this arrangement permanent but did not know that west would play a game

The west and western media took away the media support of this friends and created a vacuum in the image of the leadership.

The parties rooted inside India saw the vacuum and fielded candidates who are connected to the local people and won the elections.

There is more to analyze on this.
This group also signed the N deal with the west and now has lost the pwoer. How can this go on. There are some under the table arrangement which we have not understood yet

vivek.rao · Post by **vivek.rao** » 31 May 2014 00:20

I don't see any news reg. Sadhvi Pragya release. It is just twitter news. Her bail was rejected by some judge even though NIA said they will drop off charges for lack of evidence. The judiciary took the cue from moronic HM Shinde and anti-national scum Sonia Govt

IndraD · Post by **IndraD** » 31 May 2014 01:17

VikasRaina wrote:
IndraD wrote:After talks on to withdraw Vadra frisking immunity, Priyanka plays emotional card dares center to withdraw SPG cover to her & children as well
First please get out of free govt accommodation..

my understanding is different
This family has transported valuables & antiques out of India as they were not frisked
Now there is no opportunity to loot hence this ghadiyali aansoo
AS a BRFites tweeted, Vadra must be given SPG cover as he may be hallaled to improve Bianca's chances

Agnimitra · Post by **Agnimitra** » 31 May 2014 01:27

ravi_g guru, thanks. That gives me something to chew on. will get back with more questions later.

IndraD · Post by **IndraD** » 31 May 2014 02:01

this lady Madhu Kishwar is BA, MA

What if I tweet her this is no qualifications, one has to be
IIT, IIM, MBA (Harvard) OR
MD. DM, FRCA at least to be qualified?

Shanmukh · Post by **Shanmukh** » 31 May 2014 03:07

Since MSM rona-dhona thread has been shelved, am posting it here. Enjoy some delicious whining by a two bit hack, pretending to be a journalist.

http://www.dnaindia.com/analysis/standp ... nt-1992395

IndraD · Post by **IndraD** » 31 May 2014 03:14

I do not know where to post this
TMC vs BJP clashes are actually communal , about which even BJP doesn't want to speak
http://www.niticentral.com/2014/05/30/w ... 28997.html

Yagnasri · Post by **Yagnasri** » 31 May 2014 03:54

Entire criminal set up of communist side now shifted to TMC. most of them are peaceful. They are being used liberally on people whom didi consider a threat. As of now didi is afraid that non Bengali Hindus, a section of Hindus who are anti tmc and regular voters of congress, cpm etc are now voting for bjp.

BASICALLY IT IS TACTICAL VOTING BY HINDUS IN SOME AREAS THAT IS WHAT TMC IS AFRAID. NEW ANTI TMC FORCE IS NOW SUPPORTED FROM DELHI AND MAY NOT TAKE ANY PRISONERS UNDER MODIFIED BJP.

RamaY · Post by **RamaY** » 31 May 2014 04:03

IndraD wrote:this lady Madhu Kishwar is BA, MA

What if I tweet her this is no qualifications, one has to be
IIT, IIM, MBA (Harvard) OR
MD. DM, FRCA at least to be qualified?

You should...

Yagnasri · Post by **Yagnasri** » 31 May 2014 04:14

Kesar aunt is great frind of Kapil sibal. What else you all expect.

KJo · Post by **KJo** » 31 May 2014 04:31

Didi tera dewar diwana!

Touch a single person and we’ll see: Mamata to Modi on Bangladeshi migrants

panduranghari · Post by **panduranghari** » 31 May 2014 04:45

Agnimitra wrote:
panduranghari wrote:Less than 15% black money will come back.

People need to be named and shamed.

If and ONLY if, all the known money returns, there will be a depreciation of the rupee. Not a good idea. better to hold it offshore and buy arms or buy assets overseas.

Every person holding black money should be made an example of. No other deterent will work.
Recent moves by US Tax enforcement to get Swiss banks to waive their secrecy has been in the news. Several countries in Africa and other parts of the world, whose corrupt elites siphoned off funds, have availed of the opportunity to repatriate substantial sums of money. Any reason you say less than 15% will come back?

The money now belongs to EIC axis. If India would have acted when German authorities gave the list to all and sundry, there was a chance. Now it's too late. Money moves rapidly. Swiss banking secrecy is just for everyone except US. Interpol, euro pol won't act.

Ram Jethmalani and others tried to push this but it was stonewalled.

member_28533 · Post by **member_28533** » 31 May 2014 06:16

Modi should perhaps give a statement about the gruesome Badaun rape+murders - not an MMS-style "condemnation" - but a strong worded statement detailing what specific action his govt will take against the perps, or atleast how his govt will work with state govt to bring perps to justice.

Rahul Mehta · Post by **Rahul Mehta** » 31 May 2014 06:29

1. Re : Mukesbhai's spending huge money in house and not doing much charity

IMO, if a person pays his due share of taxes, then that should be sufficient. He has done enough for society by paying taxes. The poor exist because society as a whole, has messed up law-drafts in Gazettes. The west fixied those law-drafts and so has lesser poverty etc. Also, running charities can be a cover to evade wealth tax and income tax. I have come across many charities which do help poor by tons, but the money they "save" in wealth and income tax far far exceeds the service they give to poor. So if Mukeshbhai isnt paying taxes, we should punish him for that. But if he is paying taxes, then IMO, we should not bother him what he did with his post-tax money and what he didnt do with his post-tax money.

=====

2. Those who are upset with 100% FDI defence and many sectors

If NaMo would have said that he would allow 100% FDI defence, then many of you may not have campaigned for him. Which is why he didnt make it a loud point in his campaign speeches. Instead, he took a Swadeshi and anti-FDI posture to impress swadeshi people. IOW, he made a fool out of you all. I knew from day one that NaMo would ONLY promote "FDI-led growth" aka handing over huge chunks of economy to MNC-owners.

The videshi will soon force govt to make laws that will make it nearly impossible for Indian companies to even survive , forget growth. eg Indian exporters are not able to keep up with 100% export commitments and so they have to move or stay out of SEZ. While videshi have marketing network in west and so keep up with 100% export commitment. And SEZ have no labor law, less or zero taxes etc . And so videshi companies are growing and Indian companies wont be able to match them.

The solutions to FDI is to promote law-drafts that would improve efficiency of Indian factory owners. which law-drafts? Well, OSF = Outside the scope of the forum.

====

3. paid-ibn-live says that ---- DU suspends officials for leaking documents which show that Mrs Irani had not appeared for first year exam

http://ibnlive.in.com/news//du-suspends ... 553-3.html

DU suspends five officials for leaking Smriti Irani's documents

New Delhi: The Delhi University (DU) on Friday suspended five officials for allegedly leaking documents related to educational qualifications of union Human Resources Development Minister Smriti Irani, officials said. "Five of the non-teaching staff of the school of open learning have been suspended for accessing the confidential file and then leaking it," Malay Neerav, DU joint dean of students's welfare and media coordinator, told reporters. "These are officials below section officer level," he said. DU took the action after a Hindi daily published the leaked documents. The daily had written that Irani had taken admission in DU's School of Open Learning last year, but had not appeared for her examination. ... The Congress leaders have said that Irani in her affidavit -- when she was contesting the 2004 Lok Sabha election -- mentioned her qualification as bachelor of arts (BA) which she passed in 1996 from Delhi University's school of correspondence. But in her affidavit for this year's Lok Sabha election, the actor-turned-politician mentioned her educational qualification as "Bachelor of Commerce Part I, School of Open Learning (Correspondence), University of Delhi - 1994." The Congress has protested against an "undergraduate" being appointed the HRD minister. The BJP countered it with questions about Congress chief Sonia Gandhi's academic background. Irani has meanwhile said that "extraneous circumstances" were created by the opposition to divert her and requested the people to judge her on the basis of her work.

=======

4. 100% FDI in colleges coming soon?

Mrs Irani is all set to have 100% FDI in education. And to create a Swadeshi posture, she is talking about having "indic" textbooks in history etc . Its all eyewash. smoke and mirror etc etc

abhijitm · Post by **abhijitm** » 31 May 2014 07:05

KJoishy wrote:Didi tera dewar diwana!

Touch a single person and we’ll see: Mamata to Modi on Bangladeshi migrants

It is a criminal offence to provide sanctuary to illegal immigrants. File an FIR against her.

johneeG · Post by **johneeG** » 31 May 2014 07:29

RamaY wrote:
johneeG wrote: I weren't writing a treatise on Dharma, but just explaining why it isn't Adharma in contemporary sense.
Philonthrophy is a value that must be imbibed into every human being.

But it cannot be enforced/imposed like Zakat (this amounts to moral policing). I do not know the social services activities of Ambanis. Lets not ask "SarvaViswajitYaga" from everyone, just so we can 'appear' to be Dharmics.

Who are we to question Ambanis if they want to be born poor in next birth thru their karma in this life; as long as they are procuring and spending their wealth in a Dharmic manner?

We will revisit this topic another time.

I think the drawback of Zakat or Church or even NGOs is organized charity. When organizations exist for doing charity i.e. helping poor then those organizations have a vested interest in perpetuating poverty. But philanthropy, at personal level, has no such drawback.

Helping fund research, schools, arts, ...etc by forming groups is positive. But, forming groups to help the poor can be counter-productive. It is true that an organization can pool funds and help more people than a single person or a small group of people, but at the same time, those organizations will not exist if the poverty is completely eliminated. So, these organizations have a vested interest in perpetuating poverty. Zakat, Church, NGOs, even Socialist Govts,...etc seem to fall in this bracket.

In a way, this is equal to cutting the middle-man. Let the donator directly donate to the poor/needy.

Organizations should be formed for research, teaching, protecting arts, ...etc. But organizations should not be formed for helping the poor. For helping the poor, personal charity seems to be best.

Prem · Post by **Prem** » 31 May 2014 07:34

mchilian wrote:Modi should perhaps give a statement about the gruesome Badaun rape+murders - not an MMS-style "condemnation" - but a strong worded statement detailing what specific action his govt will take against the perps, or atleast how his govt will work with state govt to bring perps to justice.

Since Ropers are involved, its deliberate provocation to start communal riots to give excuse to many NGOs jump on the issue. Let locals mechanisms deliver the justice.

SwamyG · Post by **SwamyG** » 31 May 2014 07:43

RamaY wrote:2/ Is the wealth spent in a Dharmic manner: constructing a home is dharma. It doesn't matter how big/small that house is. What matters is is the house built following the building code, labor laws, import rules etc or not. Again if Ambanis stepped on any rules, we must send them to jail.

Big or small does matter. Every individual has the right to income and spend as he pleases. However, if societies cannot draw a boundary (even blurred) to point out if one is going overboard then it is sending a wrong signal to the individuals/families.

There should be ways that an individual can earn income and principles by which he can spend. When the norm is crossed, he not only loses respect but can create imbalances or offer incorrect path to others.

johneeG · Post by **johneeG** » 31 May 2014 07:57

SwamyG wrote:
RamaY wrote:2/ Is the wealth spent in a Dharmic manner: constructing a home is dharma. It doesn't matter how big/small that house is. What matters is is the house built following the building code, labor laws, import rules etc or not. Again if Ambanis stepped on any rules, we must send them to jail.
Big or small does matter. Every individual has the right to income and spend as he pleases. However, if societies cannot draw a boundary (even blurred) to point out if one is going overboard then it is sending a wrong signal to the individuals/families.

I think people should be free to spend their wealth in whatever way they please. If people want to build big houses, they should be able to. There is no guilt in it. But, there should be sharing also. The difference in what I am saying and what you are saying is:
a) I am saying that X can build a large house if he wants to as long as he is earning and spending the wealth dharmikally(and legally, of course). And he is also sharing(i.e. donating) with poor and deserving.
b) You are saying that X should build a small house if the society is poor. (My objection here is: society does not gain anything if X denies himself).

I'll give an example:
Bhaarath was poor. Many people did not have much to eat or wear. Gandhi came from Britain.
Gandhi had two choices:
a) My thinking: eat and dress in anyway as long as some amount is shared(i.e. donated) to the poor and deserving.
b) Your thinking: deny self i.e. eat less or dress less. (To me, it seems that rest of the people don't gain anything if Gandhi eats less or dresses less. Poor would appreciate more if Gandhi were to give them something instead of denying himself).

If rich people deny themselves, poor don't benefit. Poor benefit when rich people donate to them. If rich people deny themselves and don't donate to poor, then the money is simply wasted.

EDIT:
Of course, self-denial(i.e. self-control) i.e. indhirya-nigraham is a good thing for an individual.

ahimsa satyam asteyam shaucham indriyanigraham
etam samasikam dharmam chaaturvarnye abhravin manuh

Ahimsa(Non-violence), Satyam(Truth), Asteyam(Non-Stealing), Shaucham(Cleanliness) and Indriya-nigraham(Control of senses) are the Dharma of all the 4 varnas.

Self-denial(or self-control) i.e. Indhriya-nigraham is equivalent to Thapas. But, it does not help others(poor or deserving). If Ambani lives in a small house, it is equivalent to Thapas(thus earning punyam). But, it doesn't help the poor or deserving. If Ambani helps poor or deserving, then Ambani would earned punyam.

Poor people can earn punyam by performing Thapas.
Rich people can earn punyam by performing charity/donations.
Poor people who make donations are really great(morally).
Rich people who don't make donations are really bad(morally).
Rich people who do thapas are really great(morally).

RamaY · Post by **RamaY** » 31 May 2014 08:15

The whole nonsense of romanticization of renunciation came from Buddha's story in the same lines of Ahimsa of Gandhi. Buddha became Buddha not because of his renunciation. He almost died of it & learned his mistake before achieving self-realization. Buddha would have been Buddha even if he remained King of Kapilavastu as long he is self-realized.

Janaka was a king and he was self-realized while being a king.

Hindu dharma doesn't renounce wealth. In fact Hindu life is celebration of wealth in all its glory of Ashta Lakshmis. We need to stop mixing Nastika Dharmas with Hindu dharma when we try to define foundational principles.

Yes, we need to carry various AVedic-Indic Darshanas with us in our fight against Abrahamic religions. But it doesn't mean we end up as Charvaka society.

JMHO.

SwamyG · Post by **SwamyG** » 31 May 2014 08:20

johneeG wrote:
SwamyG wrote: Big or small does matter. Every individual has the right to income and spend as he pleases. However, if societies cannot draw a boundary (even blurred) to point out if one is going overboard then it is sending a wrong signal to the individuals/families.
I think people should be free to spend their wealth in whatever way they please. If people want to build big houses, they should be able to. There is no guilt in it. But, there should be sharing also. The difference in what I am saying and what you are saying is:
a) I am saying that X can build a large house if he wants to as long as he is earning and spending the wealth dharmikally(and legally, of course). And he is also sharing(i.e. donating) with poor and deserving.
b) You are saying that X should build a small house if the society is poor. (My objection here is: society does not gain anything if X denies himself).

a) Reminds me of carbon credits.

It all is rationalization. Supporters could argue, that such a building generated employment and really put in $1b in the economy - probably money that would have been sitting in Caymans, Mauritius, Switzerland etc.
b) Wrong understanding of my position. Small or big is a relative, and I have never advocated one to lead the life of a poor, or not enjoy life, earn and accumulate wealth and spend it responsibly. It is about knowing when something is small, necessary, big or preposterous.

My last post here....we can move to OT daaga, else we will be kicked out.

Rupesh · Post by **Rupesh** » 31 May 2014 09:04

suryag · Post by **suryag** » 31 May 2014 09:05

she looks pretty health

chetak · Post by **chetak** » 31 May 2014 09:11

suryag wrote:she looks pretty health

This bonhomie is what causes the mistrust of advani and sushma

pankajs · Post by **pankajs** » 31 May 2014 09:56

GE results thread is closed .. so this seems the best place.

Smita Prakash ‏@smitaprakash 1h

A missive to distraught liberals :Dileep Padgaonkar http://blogs.timesofindia.indiatimes.co ... -liberals/ …

Dear Sentinels of the Republic,

We goofed. Every assumption we made during the election campaign has been savaged. Each one was premised on the values we cherish — freedom, justice and fraternity. Yet all that we did to promote them was to create fear in the minds of voters: fear of Hindu nationalists gaining control of levers of the state. It prompted us to clutch at the slenderest straw in the wind. That compounded our discomfiture.

We assumed, for example, that while Congress was fated to pay dearly for its follies, its tally of seats would allow it to be at least a bit player in the formation of the next government. That didn’t happen. We also reckoned that BJP-led NDA would fail to reach the halfway mark. This would compel it to rope in ‘secular’ non-Congress, non-Left regional parties to take a shot at governance. The latter, we took for granted, would extract their pound of flesh: deny Narendra Modi any role in the new dispensation.

Towards this goal we added our two-penny bit. We missed no chance to harp on Modi’s RSS background. Time and again we raked up the 2002 violence in Gujarat. We pooh-poohed the ‘clean chit’ the Supreme Court-appointed Special Investigation Team and a lower court in Ahmedabad had given Modi. We picked gaping holes in his much-vaunted development model. And when this was not enough to corner BJP’s prime ministerial candidate, we latched on to Snoopgate. On all these counts, we came a cropper.

Congress suffered its worst rout in history. So did the Left parties. Caste-based formations that wore secularism on their sleeves were flattened too. On the other hand, BJP got what it wanted: a 272+ outcome. No non-Congress party had secured a majority on its own since the first general elections in 1952. Add to this the seats gained by BJP’s pre-poll allies. That placed NDA in an invincible position.

So why did we lose the plot? The plain answer is that we misread the nation’s mood. We didn’t gauge the depth and sweep of the rage against UPA. The dread possibility of ‘communal’ forces coming to power, we believed, would override all other concerns of the electorate, including the lacklustre leadership of the UPA government and of Rahul Gandhi, Congress’s undeclared mascot. We drew a blank.

An equally miserable failure of ours was to underestimate the spell Modi cast on the electorate. Armed with a high-tech media blitz, he led an intensive, spirited campaign built around his personality. He tapped into voters’ dismay and frustration over the ineptitude and shenanigans of the Manmohan Singh dispensation. He pinned responsibility on the Gandhi family’s dynastic rule. He also tapped into voters’ yearning for a leader endowed with the will and aptitude to bring prosperity to the people, ensure clean and effective governance, provide security and instil national pride in citizens.

We made light of all this. The so-called Modi wave, we argued, was the handiwork of media that had been bought over by India Inc. Poll results showed how hopelessly we were off the mark: education, jobs, sound civic services and good governance mattered more to voters than narratives of victimhood replete with populist promises.

We still try to comfort ourselves with the thought that almost seven out of 10 voters didn’t cast their lot with BJP. Comfort can’t get colder than this. What we need is to acknowledge the flaws in our idea of secularism. Correctly or otherwise, it has been perceived as a hostile attitude to even the most uplifting traditions of India’s myriad religious and spiritual traditions. And, by that token, it has been equated with an indulgent attitude to Muslim extremism. A course correction is in order.

We also need to renounce our animus against economic reforms and modernisation of our armed forces. At the same time, we must not lower our vigil to ensure that casteist, communal, sexist, hyper-nationalist and regional chauvinist forces of all shades do not threaten the fundamental rights of citizens. These rights are the foundation on which rests the edifice of our Republic. And we remain its steadfast sentinels.

ramana · Post by **ramana** » 31 May 2014 10:03

Looks like Shotgun and Aunty are again complaining about age and intelligence.

member_28025 · Post by **member_28025** » 31 May 2014 10:15

ramana wrote:Looks like Shotgun and Aunty are again complaining about age and intelligence.

Shotgun must be burning with jealousy because Smriti who is also from showbiz achieved what he couldn't in spite of winning elections several times.

member_20317 · Post by **member_20317** » 31 May 2014 10:22

Jhujar wrote:
mchilian wrote:Modi should perhaps give a statement about the gruesome Badaun rape+murders - not an MMS-style "condemnation" - but a strong worded statement detailing what specific action his govt will take against the perps, or atleast how his govt will work with state govt to bring perps to justice.
Since Ropers are involved, its deliberate provocation to start communal riots to give excuse to many NGOs jump on the issue. Let locals mechanisms deliver the justice.

If you are living in UP urban areas the local TV stories will tell you how this incident is being tackled by the politicians. The outrage is getting properly conveyed though only in a localized manner.

Apparently the dead bodies of the two girls were not taken down for quite sometime and a lot of locals congregated at the spot. This is now accumulated karma, with the locals left feeling like why it was their fate to endure this. All this was shown on local TV.

The locals are not going to forget this. And Akhilesh will not be coming to these regions without fear of getting molested.

member_22539 · Post by **member_22539** » 31 May 2014 10:23

Rupesh wrote:

Politics is not sports to be this chummy with your opponents. One deals with the destiny of one's nation, not a medal or a ranking, to be all sportsman like afterwards. To lose is to fail your country. If someone denied you the chance of giving your family a better life, would you be chummy with that person? What do these people think this is, some sort of game?

Do you see business leaders this chummy with their rivals? and most of them are merely heired by their companies, with no longterm interests in them.

Ya, I agree cooperation is needed with the opposition, but not such sickening bonhomie.

To think that I used to look up to this guy.

How did we patriots even survive long enough to reach this stage with leaders like this?

I believe that God has been remarkably kind to this nation (given our leadership and circumstances) and stuff like this just proves his invisible hand in shaping our destiny.