Narendra Modi vs the Dynasty: Contrasting Ideas of India

SwamyG · Post by **SwamyG** » 31 May 2014 20:48

darshhan wrote:Wrong and Unjust laws are meant to be broken and should be broken for the greater good of the nation. Atleast that is what people like Veer Savarkar and Bhagat Singh did in their time. We should also do the same.

Those times, rulers and systems were different. Now, it is possible, if the people will, to elect the people they want and influence them to change those wrong/unjust laws. No society can function if everybody breaks the laws, breaking the laws can result in unintended consequences. Changing the laws is a better approach.

darshhan · Post by **darshhan** » 31 May 2014 21:25

SwamyG wrote:
darshhan wrote:Wrong and Unjust laws are meant to be broken and should be broken for the greater good of the nation. Atleast that is what people like Veer Savarkar and Bhagat Singh did in their time. We should also do the same.
Those times, rulers and systems were different. Now, it is possible, if the people will, to elect the people they want and influence them to change those wrong/unjust laws. No society can function if everybody breaks the laws, breaking the laws can result in unintended consequences. Changing the laws is a better approach.

Sure great approach. But what if majority of the electorate is itself compromised on certain issues.

SwamyG · Post by **SwamyG** » 31 May 2014 23:06

darshhan wrote:
SwamyG wrote: Those times, rulers and systems were different. Now, it is possible, if the people will, to elect the people they want and influence them to change those wrong/unjust laws. No society can function if everybody breaks the laws, breaking the laws can result in unintended consequences. Changing the laws is a better approach.
Sure great approach. But what if majority of the electorate is itself compromised on certain issues.

Then the society is not ready to accept the breaking or changing of the laws. Anyho, a few breaking the laws is not really going to do anything as clearly shown by Crazywal. His systematic anarchism did zilch, except getting him bad name and taught lessons to people. So you would need millions, if not the whole majority to break the laws to make an impact. At that point, the society has already changed and ready to bring good leaders. A few thousands of bright and able people breaking the law is not the solution, if they can change the society for the better then that is the better approach. Why are the Maoists not really winning in spite of very bad handling of the situation by different governments?

India is really a large country, with diverse population and it is going to change and move only slowly. A mature civilization should not tolerate instigation to break law especially if there are avenues to address the issues. Freedom fighters operated under a different paradigm.

IndraD · Post by **IndraD** » 31 May 2014 23:47

Modi bullied Rajpaske in 1 to 1 meet

“I thought he had asked me to come because of friendship. Now, it seems he is worse than the previous ones. I will have to learn Hindu because he does not know English. If he bullies us that much at the very first meeting, it is sure he will finish us off within a year or so. Not a single Indian should be trusted,” saying thus, president Mahinda Rajapaksa played havoc at Temple Trees yesterday (29) morning upon his return from India, say Temple Trees internal sources.

http://lankanewsweb.net/news/7729-modi- ... dent-rages

SanjayC · Post by **SanjayC** » 31 May 2014 23:58

Hope Modi doesn't get carried away with his tough guy image and over-does it with neighbourhood leaders. This will piss everyone off and they will all turn hostile. If he had invited everyone and they came out of good grace, Modi should have been gracious himself and tough talking could have been left for later times.

fanne · Post by **fanne** » 01 Jun 2014 00:00

108 that!!

negi · Post by **negi** » 01 Jun 2014 00:03

Or probably non Rajpakshe and other poodles only had to deal with sissies until now , ab Gujarat ka sher aya hai

IndraD · Post by **IndraD** » 01 Jun 2014 00:03

SanjayC wrote:Hope Modi doesn't get carried away with his tough guy image and over-does it with neighbourhood leaders. This will piss everyone off and they will all turn hostile. If he had invited everyone and they came out of good grace, Modi should have been gracious himself and tough talking could have been left for later times.

Going by meeting w. shareef doesn't look he is bully, this is not perhaps dependable news, if you read article it says such temper tantrum/seizures are common in Rajpaske behavior.
I have many sensible SL friends they hate Rajpaske the way we hate British Gandhis

SRoy · Post by **SRoy** » 01 Jun 2014 00:06

IndraD wrote:Modi bullied Rajpaske in 1 to 1 meet

“I thought he had asked me to come because of friendship. Now, it seems he is worse than the previous ones. I will have to learn Hindu because he does not know English. If he bullies us that much at the very first meeting, it is sure he will finish us off within a year or so. Not a single Indian should be trusted,” saying thus, president Mahinda Rajapaksa played havoc at Temple Trees yesterday (29) morning upon his return from India, say Temple Trees internal sources.

http://lankanewsweb.net/news/7729-modi- ... dent-rages

They better get used to it.
Someone please tell them that the govt. in New Delhi is no longer run by CIA moles, thieves and assorted ant-nationals.

This means badmash had it real bad. Must be same with that BD motorham.

arminius · Post by **arminius** » 01 Jun 2014 00:09

To speak softly or not is Modi's choice, but it is high time we carry a very very big stick.

member_28025 · Post by **member_28025** » 01 Jun 2014 00:13

Kya ho raha hai bhaiyon? If Modi is soft you say he is turning into another Vajpayee. If he is tough, you say he should be gracious. Damn if he does, damn if he doesn't!

fanne · Post by **fanne** » 01 Jun 2014 00:17

Big Stick yes- But we are 10 years from having big stick if everything works at Modi speed. Army without artillery or artillery shells, Airforce without planes, navy without torpedoes....Intelligence Unit busy fixing Indians (and Indians covert agent)...then yes. Empty rhetoric will not get us anywhere, maybe will be repeat of 1962 (granted that self inflated Nehru is not a scratch compared to Modi).

Shanmukh · Post by **Shanmukh** » 01 Jun 2014 00:19

Shamlee wrote:Kya ho raha hai bhaiyon? If Modi is soft you say he is turning into another Vajpayee. If he is tough, you say he should be gracious. Damn if he does, damn if he doesn't!

Churchill once said that people will give up every right except the one to find fault with their government. Looks like a similar case here.

SRoy · Post by **SRoy** » 01 Jun 2014 00:29

fanneji,

Capabilities will follow the intent. Its usually not the other way around.

SRoy · Post by **SRoy** » 01 Jun 2014 01:00

nageshji,

I think the point is that the stick has to be wielded and applied to enemies, both external and internal.
About the external, he has given indications. We have to see what he does to the internal ones.

IndraD · Post by **IndraD** » 01 Jun 2014 01:05

^^ our internal security is bigger problem than external

sunnyP · Post by **sunnyP** » 01 Jun 2014 02:00

How credible is this news source?

To me the whole story sounds like it's made up rubbish. Modi isn't stupid enough to P off neighbouring leaders like this. Especially not at a first meeting like this.

IndraD wrote:Modi bullied Rajpaske in 1 to 1 meet

“I thought he had asked me to come because of friendship. Now, it seems he is worse than the previous ones. I will have to learn Hindu because he does not know English. If he bullies us that much at the very first meeting, it is sure he will finish us off within a year or so. Not a single Indian should be trusted,” saying thus, president Mahinda Rajapaksa played havoc at Temple Trees yesterday (29) morning upon his return from India, say Temple Trees internal sources.

http://lankanewsweb.net/news/7729-modi- ... dent-rages

SaiK · Post by **SaiK** » 01 Jun 2014 02:06

^^^from that raja-paki-se link

It is his habit to utter in filth what comes to his mind, irrespective of whether there are any men or women near him, at such times.

like bc, mc wagera? who cares? we don't owe anything to the lankans.. they better behave.

IndraD · Post by **IndraD** » 01 Jun 2014 02:14

http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/nri/ ... 839616.cms

British-Indian MP flays pathetic BBC coverage on Modi

ramana · Post by **ramana** » 01 Jun 2014 02:17

Shamlee wrote:Kya ho raha hai bhaiyon? If Modi is soft you say he is turning into another Vajpayee. If he is tough, you say he should be gracious. Damn if he does, damn if he doesn't!

In folklore literature "Two men and a donkey" is unique to India only. All other tales have cognates elsewhere.

James B · Post by **James B** » 01 Jun 2014 02:35

Just read an article in current OPEN magazine. On 26th May, the morning before oath taking ceremony, priests from Tirumala Devasthanam went to Gujarat Bhawan to give blessings to NaMo & he asked them to wait for all council of ministers to arrive so that all can get the blessings from the priests as all of them have to successful to make Modi sarkar a success.

KJo · Post by **KJo** » 01 Jun 2014 02:40

A lot of Indics suffer from Battered Indic Syndrome onlee. Indics love to go

and fear the worse even when they get what they ask for.
Result of being battered for 1000 years by mullahs, missionaries and others.

ramana · Post by **ramana** » 01 Jun 2014 02:41

KJoishy wrote:A lot of Indics suffer from Battered Indic Syndrome onlee. Indics love to go and fear the worse even when they get what they ask for.
Result of being battered for 1000 years by mullahs, missionaries and others.

One way of saying it.

B(I)S!!!

krisna · Post by **krisna** » 01 Jun 2014 02:43

regarding reliance etc and their way of doing business earleir during Nehru-IG times- was clever and dangerous.

Dhirubhai tried to hoodwink bulldoze or bribe the right people. he failed and semtimes succeeded.
he learnt his way all thru' never giving up. yes came at great cost but managed well with giving out doles to many right conncetd persons.
managed the contacts right upto the top level.

The problem is whether Dhirubhai is a crook or not-- or is NEhru-IG times rulers were crook or not.

Dhirubhai tried to go legally intially but was stonewalled by babus and congis.

Durng those times nehru was dead against owning money or become rich despite the fact he came from a rich family never had to work hard his way to earn a living.
All laws were framed to prevent people from getting rich.

This created havoc in the system -

People like Dhirubhai if allowed proeprly within the system would have created a giant comglomerate rivalling the world top companies.

even today there are plenty of Indians with right attitude and perseverance to create huge Indian MNCs.

This needs total destruction of the framework of attitudes of nehru ideas regarding wealth making.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
At this juncture we have NaMo with opposite ideas of wealth making (not stifling people with aspirtaions to become rich)

Hope NaMo succeeds in this.

Victor · Post by **Victor** » 01 Jun 2014 02:46

IndraD wrote:http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/nri/ ... 839616.cms

British-Indian MP flays pathetic BBC coverage on Modi

BBC should be asked to apologise or be kicked out of India. This is not pathetic reporting, its libel. we have taken enough crap from these mc/bcs.

IndraD · Post by **IndraD** » 01 Jun 2014 02:49

Interestingly BBC Karachi staff lives in Mumbai

vivek.rao · Post by **vivek.rao** » 01 Jun 2014 04:16

Victor wrote:
IndraD wrote:http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/nri/ ... 839616.cms

British-Indian MP flays pathetic BBC coverage on Modi
BBC should be asked to apologise or be kicked out of India. This is not pathetic reporting, its libel. we have taken enough crap from these mc/bcs.

I wonder if soemone can file libel/PIL in India and ask courts to evict the racist scums out of India

Vayutuvan · Post by **Vayutuvan** » 01 Jun 2014 04:58

SwamyG wrote:In America everything is Fees (non-negotiable unless you are uber rich and politically connected); in India everything is bribe (negotiable and politically connected). Bribes when institutionalized becomes Fees.

Except the latter doesn't breed black money where as in India the byzantine laws put in place are "black breeder reactor"s.

SwamyG · Post by **SwamyG** » 01 Jun 2014 05:00

pandyan wrote:it is good that people who speak buddhism are planning to learn hindu.

It is 'Hindi' and not 'Hindu' - based on the supposed fuming of Rakshapaksa. If I understand correctly it is said that Modi spoke only 'Hindi' and not English. So hence the takleef to learn Hindi.

I am surprised that people of the subcontinent make a mistake of mixing Hindi and Hindu. Fishy.

SwamyG · Post by **SwamyG** » 01 Jun 2014 05:02

matrimc wrote:
SwamyG wrote:In America everything is Fees (non-negotiable unless you are uber rich and politically connected); in India everything is bribe (negotiable and politically connected). Bribes when institutionalized becomes Fees.
Except the latter doesn't breed black money where as in India the byzantine laws put in place are "black breeder reactor"s.

As long as the black money stays within India, it indirectly helps the country by directly helping the people.

Vayutuvan · Post by **Vayutuvan** » 01 Jun 2014 05:02

pandyan wrote:it is good that people who speak buddhism are planning to learn hindu.

Boss, how are you able to come up with these great

one liners?

Cosmo_R · Post by **Cosmo_R** » 01 Jun 2014 05:06

SwamyG wrote:
pandyan wrote:it is good that people who speak buddhism are planning to learn hindu.
It is 'Hindi' and not 'Hindu' - based on the supposed fuming of Rakshapaksa. If I understand correctly it is said that Modi spoke only 'Hindi' and not English. So hence the takleef to learn Hindi.

I am surprised that people of the subcontinent make a mistake of mixing Hindi and Hindu. Fishy.

Please read the one liner again:

"it is good that people who speak buddhism are planning to learn hindu.

Maybe there is a 'be' or an "ism" missing. But it's not what something one should suspect.

Vayutuvan · Post by **Vayutuvan** » 01 Jun 2014 05:17

SwamyG wrote: As long as the black money stays within India, it indirectly helps the country by directly helping the people.

SwamyG: No. Black money doesn't help people equitably (different from "equally") where as tax does (assuming very low incidence of embezzlement).

Manish_Sharma · Post by **Manish_Sharma** » 01 Jun 2014 05:56

johneeG wrote: I'll give an example:
Bhaarath was poor. Many people did not have much to eat or wear. Gandhi came from Britain.
Gandhi had two choices:
a) My thinking: eat and dress in anyway as long as some amount is shared(i.e. donated) to the poor and deserving.
b) Your thinking: deny self i.e. eat less or dress less. (To me, it seems that rest of the people don't gain anything if Gandhi eats less or dresses less. Poor would appreciate more if Gandhi were to give them something instead of denying himself).

If rich people deny themselves, poor don't benefit. Poor benefit when rich people donate to them. If rich people deny themselves and don't donate to poor, then the money is simply wasted.

As an aside sarojini naidu had said "it costs us so much money keep gandhi ji in poverty...." it is said that to make the goat's milk as good as cow or buffalo the goats were fed best dry-fruits like pista badaam and apples etc. So other than showoffing poverty it became an even bigger parasite upon poor.

SwamyG · Post by **SwamyG** » 01 Jun 2014 06:37

http://m.thehindu.com/opinion/open-page ... 70562.ece/
Can Singha or others from Assam, would you be able to trace that newspaper article from 1995?

Of two co-travellers who surprised the writer with their graciousness, 24 years ago
It was the summer of 1990. As Indian Railway (Traffic) Service probationers, my friend and I travelled by train from Lucknow to Delhi. Two MPs were also travelling in the same bogie. That was fine, but the behaviour of some 12 people who were travelling with them without reservation was terrifying. They forced us to vacate our reserved berths and sit on the luggage, and passed obscene and abusive comments. We cowered in fright and squirmed with rage. It was a harrowing night in the company of an unruly battalion; we were on edge, on the thin line between honour and dishonour. All other passengers seemed to have vanished, along with the Travelling Ticket Examiner.

We reached Delhi the next morning without being physically harmed by the goons, though we were emotionally wrecked. My friend was so traumatised she decided to skip the next phase of training in Ahmedabad and stayed back in Delhi. I decided to carry on since another batchmate was joining me. (She is Utpalparna Hazarika, now Executive Director, Railway Board.) We boarded an overnight train to Gujarat’s capital, this time without reservations as there wasn’t enough time to arrange for them. We had been wait-listed.

We met the TTE of the first class bogie, and told him how we had to get to Ahmedabad. The train was heavily booked, but he politely led us to a coupe to sit as he tried to help us. I looked at the two potential co-travellers, two politicians, as could be discerned from their white khadi attire, and panicked. “They’re decent people, regular travellers on this route, nothing to worry,” the TTE assured us. One of them was in his mid-forties with a normal, affectionate face, and the other in his late-thirties with a warm but somewhat impervious expression. They readily made space for us by almost squeezing themselves to one corner.

They introduced themselves: two BJP leaders from Gujarat. The names were told but quickly forgotten as names of co-passengers were inconsequential at that moment. We also introduced ourselves, two Railway service probationers from Assam. The conversation turned to different topics, particularly in the areas of History and the Polity. My friend, a post-graduate in History from Delhi University and very intelligent, took part. I too chipped in. The discussion veered around to the formation of the Hindu Mahasabha and the Muslim League.

The senior one was an enthusiastic participant. The younger one mostly remained quiet, but his body language conveyed his total mental involvement in what was being discussed, though he hardly contributed. Then I mentioned Syama Prasad Mookerjee’s death, why it was still considered a mystery by many. He suddenly asked: “How do you know about Syama Prasad Mookerjee?” I had to tell him that when my father was a post-graduate student in Calcutta University, as its Vice-Chancellor he had arranged a scholarship for the young man from Assam. My father often reminisced about that and regretted his untimely death [in June 1953 at the age of 51].

The younger man then almost looked away and spoke in a hushed tone almost to himself: “It’s good they know so many things ...”

Suddenly the senior man proposed: “Why don’t you join our party in Gujarat?” We both laughed it off, saying we were not from Gujarat. The younger man then forcefully interjected: “So what? We don’t have any problem on that. We welcome talent in our State.” I could see a sudden spark in his calm demeanour.

The food arrived, four vegetarian thalis. We ate in silence. When the pantry-car manager came to take the payment, the younger man paid for all of us. I muttered a feeble ‘thank you’, but he almost dismissed that as something utterly trivial. I observed at that moment that he had a different kind of glow in his eyes, which one could hardly miss. He rarely spoke, mostly listened.

The TTE then came and informed us the train was packed and he couldn’t arrange berths for us. Both men immediately stood up and said: “It’s okay, we’ll manage.” They swiftly spread a cloth on the floor and went to sleep, while we occupied the berths.

What a contrast! The previous night we had felt very insecure travelling with a bunch of politicians, and here we were travelling with two politicians in a coupe, with no fear.

The next morning, when the train neared Ahmedabad, both of them asked us about our lodging arrangements in the city. The senior one told us that in case of any problem, the doors of his house were open for us. There was some kind of genuine concern in the voice or the facial contours of the otherwise apparently inscrutable younger one, and he told us: “I’m like a nomad, I don’t have a proper home to invite you but you can accept his offer of safe shelter in this new place.”

We thanked them for that invitation and assured them that accommodation was not going to be a problem for us.

Before the train came to a stop, I pulled out my diary and asked them for their names again. I didn’t want to forget the names of two large-hearted fellow passengers who almost forced me to revise my opinion about politicians in general. I scribbled down the names quickly as the train was about to stop: Shankersinh Vaghela and Narendra Modi.

I wrote on this episode in an Assamese newspaper in 1995. It was a tribute to two unknown politicians from Gujarat for giving up their comfort ungrudgingly for the sake of two bens from Assam. When I wrote that, I didn’t have the faintest idea that these two people were going to become so prominent, or that I would hear more about them later. When Mr. Vaghela became Chief Minister of Gujarat in 1996, I was glad. When Mr. Modi took office as Chief Minister in 2001, I felt elated. (A few months later, another Assamese daily reproduced my 1995 piece.) And now, he is the Prime Minister of India.

Every time I see him on TV, I remember that warm meal, that gentle courtesy, caring and sense of security that we got that night far from home in a train, and bow my head.

(The author is General Manager of the Centre for Railway Information System, Indian Railways, New Delhi. [email protected])

Yagnasri · Post by **Yagnasri** » 01 Jun 2014 07:07

The less we write about the Gandhi and other "GOD"s of current political establishment which include BJP, the better. Arun Shouri is not liked by many because of what he has written about many of these false gods. Even he not touched Gandhi.

It takes a huge efforts to correct history and BJP does not have time or real power to do that level of work. May be after a couple of decades in power or later.

saip · Post by **saip** » 01 Jun 2014 07:29

SwamyG wrote:
pandyan wrote:it is good that people who speak buddhism are planning to learn hindu.
It is 'Hindi' and not 'Hindu' - based on the supposed fuming of Rakshapaksa. If I understand correctly it is said that Modi spoke only 'Hindi' and not English. So hence the takleef to learn Hindi.

I am surprised that people of the subcontinent make a mistake of mixing Hindi and Hindu. Fishy.

May be he is from Gujrat? Also, I never heard of language called Buddhism. (what language do Buddhists speak? ) Quite a few languages I must assume, Japanese, Chinese, Tibetan (?) etc.

amdavadi · Post by **amdavadi** » 01 Jun 2014 07:34

^^ Gujarat......Gujrat is in paki land......

Manish_Sharma · Post by **Manish_Sharma** » 01 Jun 2014 07:48

SanjayC wrote:
panduranghari wrote:Coming back to Ambani.

An anecdote from my other halfs side of the family. When Dhirubhai wanted to start the cotton mill (I think) he went through the channels. The file landed with my wifes grandfather who was the commissioner of that relevant department. Obviously, too many assumptions were made in the application, hence it was rejected almost 20 odd times. Finally when the old man retired, the new guy who took over, accepted a sizeable number of shares to get the business running.

All the wealth generated by Ambani is thus based on lies. However, as too much water has flown under the Mithi river.

His business is a mega business and just like any mega business, there is subjugation at some level. Its not how things should be if defined from Dharmic Perspective.
You are unable to see the larger picture. Your thinking goes like this:

In one country, the Government banned people from breathing. Millions perished. The smart few have been greasing palms of "breath inspectors," thinking of innovative ways to somehow get air into their lungs. Soon, some of them become experts at managing the ecosystem, and grow healthy by breathing quite well, but it comes at a cost -- of cozying up to the powers that be, flattering them and helping them in their affairs to stay in power. Such healthy people are now envy of other citizens who have got bones protruding out because their bodies can get barely enough oxygen without the "breath inspector" caning them for breaking the law.

Instead of the guys who became healthy getting appreciation for managing the ecosystem and working around an unjust law, they are now the butt of taunts and ridicule. Everyone says: "The whole life of these crooked healthy people is based on a lie, on manipulating others, on being shrewd and cunning, on subverting the system. They don't deserve any respect for not following the law of the land." However, nobody has the brains to ask, why should there actually be a law which bans breathing. Instead, everyone still continues to worship the people who banned breathing, complimenting them on their wisdom.

What a beautiful way of expressing the truth, Sanjay ji pranaams, your post reminded me of a book by Osho: "Beware of Socialism" I read the hindi version of this book "Samajvad se Saavdhan" years ago, amazing He said these things in 60s when it was so out of fashion:

http://www.oshoworld.com/e-books/search ... arch_title

saip · Post by **saip** » 01 Jun 2014 07:49

^^ Gujarat......Gujrat is in paki land......

I know. But only pakis confuse between Hindu and Hindi. (then again i missed pandyan's sarcasm)