Narendra Modi vs the Dynasty: Contrasting Ideas of India

[chaanakya]

NaMo is talking about cleaning Parliament of criminal MPs within one year. Sending all cases to Supreme court for expediting them in one year and by 2015 we can have clean parliament. MPs look shocked.

[Manish_Sharma]

Also JP lost because they could not offer anything to the Janta. Moreover by the time new elections were held, JP had fragmented while IG still had credibility and name recognition from older days.

I think whether janta party or janta dal-s / samajwadi party are just congress without nehru-maino dynasty.

In case dynasty isn't there in Congress it will be broken into many small janta dals - janta parties - samajwadi parties.

'Cause why would digvijay singh accept the leadership of gulam nabi azad, or why would salman khurshit accept anand sharma as senior to him?

[SandeepA]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4xn0HXD4h6Q#t=1650

[IndraD]

कांग्रेस के इस सवाल पर कि हमारी चीजों को मोदी चुराकर नए तरीके से पैककर बेच रहे हैं, नई बोतल में पुरानी शराब....आदि के जवाब में मोदी ने कहा कि दुर्योधन को भी सब पता था लेकिन वो कुछ नहीं कर पाया. दुर्योधन से पूछा गया कि उसे धर्म-अधर्म की समझ है या नहीं. तो उसने कहा कि मैं धर्म को जानता हूं, पर मेरी प्रवृत्ति नहीं. सत्य क्या है, अच्छा क्या है, मुझे मालूम है. लेकिन वो मेरे डीएनए में नहीं है.


http://aajtak.intoday.in/story/prime-mi ... 67402.html

1. Amarinder singh-Modi is selling our things in a new pack, old wine in new bottle--Modi said it is natural Amarinder found coincidence in alcohol
2. Re Kharge jibe-Duryodhan always knew what is dharm & adahrm but being Dharmic was not in his DNA (hence cong can never be Pandavas)

[Kamal_raj]

Thanks Sandeep

Regds

[Chandragupta]

^^^+100

And constantly whining about each and every actual or perceived action of his does not demonstrate that one is invested in his success or has the confidence in his ability to deliver - it just shows that one lacks confidence in his abilities to be India's PM and steer India out of the morass it is currently in.

Suraj ji, Boseullah...well said and I agree with you. Can you please explain this to the family of THIRD BJP worker shot in UP in as many weeks? Can NaMo not even call Mulayam and politely (and i really mean politely) to stop these murders? Or does he need an entire year to even find the process of calling a state CM? Instead, he is saying "we will take everyone along", "we will take all criticism", "we all are here for national interests"..well sir they are not their for national interest, not all of them. They don't even want to walk with you or work with you then why are you needlessly being such a Liberal? How is Mulayam concerned about nation's interests? Sonia? AAP?

I did whatever I could to ensure a NaMo victory, contributing in every way I could and if he is turning into a statesman like ABV, then I'll be damn pissed.

[IndraD]

Go to SM & Modi is being battered by even staunchest supporter for keeping mum on BJP leader's murder and trying to become another Vajpayee

[member_28025]

So what do you want him to do? For all you know he might already have started action but doing it quietly. Shouting at the top of your voice condemning the act and vowing revenge does not get you anywhere.

[IndraD]

It is not me but people, pls don't shoot the messenger
There is a perception that he is quite about BJP leader's killing in UP

[nawabs]

I am pretty sure Amit Shah is already looking into this matter from BJP org viewpoint. Workers in UP placed as much trust in him as they placed in Modi. Muraliravi ji had quoted news article that he is going to be next BJP President.

[member_28025]

I know. Buy "you" I meant the people. Just like when NaMo says "you" to a journalist, he doesn't mean that journalist but "news-traders".

[KJo]

Go to SM & Modi is being battered by even staunchest supporter for keeping mum on BJP leader's murder and trying to become another Vajpayee

We Hindus have a tendency to be drama queens and start hyperventilating that the world is coming to an end onleeee at every turn. This is the Battered Hindu Syndrome (BHS). We all know that Modi is no Hajpayee, but we still about it and second guess every decision that Modi takes or thinks he has not taken. Let us give him a good couple of years before we commit soosai.

Not everything he does is on twitt-e-r and Face-e-Qitaab.

[Suraj]

Suraj ji, Boseullah...well said and I agree with you. Can you please explain this to the family of THIRD BJP worker shot in UP in as many weeks? Can NaMo not even call Mulayam and politely (and i really mean politely) to stop these murders?

Please quote the exact part of what I posted earlier where I either explicitly state, or imply that the BJP should do nothing about the killings of cadre members. If you cannot find such a thing, I suggest you do the right thing and retract your allegation that either RB or I implied anything of the sort. Thanks.

Fact: law and order is a state subject.
Fact: Modi inherits an enormously dysfunctional administrative system at the central and state level that cannot be reformed overnight.
Fact: Even a man working at his pace will take months to weed out the vested interests. Example: Gen VKS issue today because of MoD bypassing the DM to finger VKS.
Fact: BJP cadre have always been targeted by other parties concerned about Hindu vote mobilization affecting vote banks.

[SRoy]

Fact: BJP cadre have always been targeted by other parties concerned about Hindu vote mobilization affecting vote banks.

Why is that? What makes it so possible?

[Suraj]

BJP doesn't have enough control over the administrative or law and order apparatus. Power isn't gained at the ballot booth alone. There's much more to be done subsequently to get the system working for you. You have real power when you manage to get the administrative system working for you by ripping out all the political appointees who can affect your ability to be the executive, and replacing them with those who will work properly.

This takes time. He's doing the right thing by focussing on the bureaucrats directly, but this is a huge undertaking. Modi could not even stop MoD from causing the VKS issue today, and that is right in the heart of New Delhi. If he couldn't clean up the bureaucracy that close to his office during this time, what do you think he can do in UP where a very antagonistic state government is in charge, who are panic stricken about the potential of the BJP to sweep them away in the next state polls ?

As Raja Bose said, the constant whining and nitpicking of Modi's actions is more a sign of the poster's own lack of confidence in Modi or their own convictions of him, than Modi's own failing. Odds are that almost anyone here, if magically put in Modi's place right now, would do a far worse job than him so far.

[SRoy]

BJP doesn't have enough control over the law and order apparatus. Power isn't gained at the ballot booth alone. You have real power when you manage to get the administrative system working for you. Modi could not even stop MoD from causing the VKS issue today, and that is right in the heart of New Delhi. What do you think he can do in UP where a very antagonistic state government is in charge, who are panic stricken about the potential of the BJP to sweep them away in the next state polls ?

So, how do you protect your political assets in areas where your government has no writ (after all law and order is local/state level)?
One way is using agencies from the central government. But that requires molding the bureaucracy as per your policies and exigencies.
But Mr. Modi is on record saying that bureaucrats won't be moved around just because they were appointed by the previous regime.
I see a bit of naivete on part of Mr. Modi that he thinks bureaucracy will play by the rules (doesn't he know that these folks are compromised).

He is keeping quite on the murders because he doesn't have any means at his disposal to carry out any punishment he announces.

Also, situations like mischievous affidavits to embarrass the government will recur, unless a purge is initiated.

[Suraj]

One way is using agencies from the central government. But that requires molding the bureaucracy as per your policies and exigencies.
But Mr. Modi is on record saying that bureaucrats won't be moved around just because they were appointed by the previous regime.
I see a bit of naivete on part of Mr. Modi that he thinks bureaucracy will play by the rules (doesn't he know that these folks are compromised).

No, he is on record stating that he won't transfer people because they are difficult to handle, because he's just transferring a problem instead of fixing it. He never stated anything about their being past political appointees. While one can argue that political appointees can be a problem, it is not reasonable to state that a political appointment must by default be a problem. In general, a bureaucracy last longer than a political dispensation, and while a bureaucracy may retain a nexus associated with a prior regime, it can be reoriented to work within the guidelines of the new one.

I wish someone would repost the Viswanathan article where he does a detailed analysis of what Modi did when he took charge of Gujarat. Nothing much happened at the beginning, while he asked all the bureaucrats to make presentations and describe their roles. He wasn't just understanding what they do. He spend time to understand how they worked and who got things done or had the ability to get things done or block things from being done.

This is a critical administrative ability that nearly all political leaders lack. Modi has it. He has a record of using it to accomplish things. His record also shows that this process takes time. It takes time at the state level and will take even more time at the national level.

What people want is for Modi to do what the past leaders have done - make loud bold assertions, before he has consolidated enough power to carry out those assertions. Take a simple example: the previous government asserted they will have visa on arrival in a few months. The other day, MHA spokesman said they have to hire upto 600 people and install infrastructure to do this.

What would people rather see ? Grand pronouncements made immediately, or a period of quiet when things are organized and executed, and then a statement to the effect of 'this has been done' ? Most of us are conditioned to the way things were done in the past, where instant gratification is provided in the form of an early policy pronouncement, but actual implementation goes haywire afterwards. This is a useless approach - it feeds a vicious cycle of disenchantment of early cautious hope followed by the same old poor execution.

Instead people hoped Modi would execute well. He does. His entire election message was about that. He didn't say '<insert banana republic fantasy>, so vote for me!'. He said 'I've already done this in Gujarat. I want to do this all over India. Vote for me if you agree'. That's what people voted for.

But now they want the bold pronouncements of old *and* the immediate execution right away. That's not Modi's style. In fact, I've seen no indicator that it has ever been his style. He is at the heart an uber bureaucrat in the garb of a politician. He has the ability to convey his message at election time, but at other times, he is a micromanaging administrator who takes the time to co-opt the administrative system and get things done.

It may be a failing on Modi's part, but he's not a politician as much as a bureaucrat with an effective and electable political message. If you expect him to be a politician, you are bound to be disappointed initially, but the odds are - based on his reputation - that he will get things done, but in his own way.

[Gus]

imagine a huge ship heading towards an iceberg.

and suddenly modi is made captain.

he is going to focus on things he thinks is needed to avert the collision first. everything else is later.

[Vikas]

Watched the whole speech on web.
What a stirring speech. MMS would not even understand some of the concepts that NaMo talked about.
SG looked clueless as always.
What a man, what ideas. Those who have started criticizing Namo should give him time to implement these ideas.
He is the greatest leader India has since Swami Vivekananda. Even MKG, SP and JLN put together would not match to the wholesome leadership he has shown. He spoke promptly with so much of passion and energy.

We wont have someone as good as him for many years to come. One ABV for 6 years and we had to suffer MMS and Dynasty for 10 years. Let us protect him as much as we can rather than be the first one to pick the stone.

[Suraj]

He is keeping quite on the murders because he doesn't have any means at his disposal to carry out any punishment he announces.

Exactly. Assume he hastily announces he will send a CBI probe. He paints an easy bulls eye for his opponents. INC can work its CBI network to hamper the task. Mulayam can put hurdles in their way. In the end Modi looks ineffective. Just another politician who talks hastily and screws up execution. When people demand he act in haste, that's the failure you're setting him up for, inadvertently. Please stop this. Your intentions may be true, but execution takes much more than that. Statescraft is a deliberate process of consolidation of power. Just winning the elections doesn't magically turn the entire system in your favor. A lot of the system is still setup to hamper Modi's efforts to get things done.

Funny thing is that I have AAPtard friends who have started a meme of 'rape in UP, power cuts in Delhi, BJP cadre killing elsewhere, Modi says nothing. Modi == MMS'. Here, we have BJP fans rephrasing that partially. People have been conditioned by UPA. Talked followed by no action. Or, no talk followed by no action either. So when Modi doesn't talk, the assumption is that there's no, and will not be any action. People demonstrate very little faith or regard for his track record when they imply this.

[kmkraoind]

OMG, once again, so its not mere coincidences.

Three injured after Delhi MP’s SUV crashes into Uma Bharti’s escort vehicle

[Chandragupta]

Suraj ji, Boseullah...well said and I agree with you. Can you please explain this to the family of THIRD BJP worker shot in UP in as many weeks? Can NaMo not even call Mulayam and politely (and i really mean politely) to stop these murders?

Please quote the exact part of what I posted earlier where I either explicitly state, or imply that the BJP should do nothing about the killings of cadre members. If you cannot find such a thing, I suggest you do the right thing and retract your allegation that either RB or I implied anything of the sort. Thanks.

Fact: law and order is a state subject.
Fact: Modi inherits an enormously dysfunctional administrative system at the central and state level that cannot be reformed overnight.
Fact: Even a man working at his pace will take months to weed out the vested interests. Example: Gen VKS issue today because of MoD bypassing the DM to finger VKS.
Fact: BJP cadre have always been targeted by other parties concerned about Hindu vote mobilization affecting vote banks.

Suraj ji, no need to get hyper. Please quote my post where I explicitly state that you or RB implied the same. I wasn't blaming you or RB.

Here is what you wrote :

+1

The constant whining about 'Modi hasn't done this' is getting quite tiresome. We get it - you're heavily invested in his success. However, posters need to understand when they expertly critique decisions that you're merely an idle interested party without either a responsibility in decisionmaking, nor an inside line into the way things work.

Modi has been PM for 2 weeks now. He has demonstrably shaken up the administrative apparatus that is critical to actually being an effective executive. He works 18hr days. Just his promise of delivery has sent the stock market to alltime highs and caused GDP growth estimate for this year to be revised upwards from 5 to 6.2% . That's right - in two weeks where nothing actually got built or implemented, except for official statements, growth estimates were raised by more than 20% for *this* year, after 3 years during which they were slowly downgraded year after year. All because of a leader's reputation.

But no, we have posters weighing in on everything from 'why for is Jaitley finance minister ? He's D4 onlee! chee chee!' to 'Shourie is a US agent! Why is he selling all the companies ?' to 'Why is amul baba not in jail ? Why is maino madam not deported to Italy yet ? fail!' A lot of these are nowhere near constructive, and are just idle provocateur territory.

There's a lot of pent up frustration over a decade demanding immediate correction, now that Modi has been formally elevated to leadership role. However, a study of his own history shows that he doesn't talk much. He is not afflicted with Rajiv Gandhi's banana republic syndrome, i.e. "humko yeh banana hain! humko woh banana hain!" Instead he focuses on first quietly gaining control over the levers that enable him to execute his plans, implement them, and THEN talk.

Right now is not a time where he's going to resort to histrionics. People are starved for results. That is understandable. However you're not going to see grand sweeping changes immediately. That's not how he works. Let him be. As far as I'm concerned, my expectations for the economy have been significantly improved. I now expect growth to exceed 6% this year, and return to 8% within 2 years. He will probably go into the 2019 elections with an economy more than twice as large as it was at the end of last fiscal year.

Here is what RB wrote :

^^^+100

And constantly whining about each and every actual or perceived action of his does not demonstrate that one is invested in his success or has the confidence in his ability to deliver - it just shows that one lacks confidence in his abilities to be India's PM and steer India out of the morass it is currently in.

There is nothing wrong with what you or RB say, it makes sense. Thing is that this is the third BJP worker shot in UP, so I think NaMo needs to adjust his priorities a bit. Whining or not, people will talk about it. The families of the departed BJP workers will ask for action. NaMo needs to be seen taking action and fast. It's already been 3 weeks since the BJP leader in Dadri was shot dead point blank and UP Police has provided a clean chit to SP's local bahubali, I don't hear a squeak from central BJP or UP BJP about making a CBI enquiry on the case. Same needs to be done for TN BJP workers who were hacked to death. If Modi can't appear strong enough to deter such cases, why did people like these risk their lives to get votes for him?

[ramana]

OMG, once again, so its not mere coincidences.

Three injured after Delhi MP’s SUV crashes into Uma Bharti’s escort vehicle

The Delhi BJP MP's driver was on wrong side of the road and has been arrested. The three injured are policemen in the escort vehicle.

Looks like BJP officials' drivers are beng macho and causing accidents : driving wrong side, jumping red lights etc.

[kmkraoind]

OMG, once again, so its not mere coincidences.

Three injured after Delhi MP’s SUV crashes into Uma Bharti’s escort vehicle

The Delhi BJP MP's driver was on wrong side of the road and has been arrested. The three injured are policemen in the escort vehicle.

Looks like BJP officials' drivers are beng macho and causing accidents : driving wrong side, jumping red lights etc.

What is the procedure to hire/appoint drivers of their convey. Is VIP is allowed to get their own men or MHA allots them or VIP is allowed to select drivers from MHA pool?

[ramana]

MHA allots from driver pool.

In AP they did away with driver pools as cost savings and sub-contract the vehicles.

[SwamyG]

Fredric maybe open a thread in Strat Forum as Modi Progress Sheet and let it run for first 100 days of his government.

That is what I hope the Modi Sarkar would turn out....at least that is what I had in mind for sometime. The Progress Sheet thread should not have any discussion. Only bullet points and link to articles. Absolutely no jokes, +108, -108, smart comments or pros/cons.

[Rahul Mehta]

One must always read every line of gazette-drafts given by Ministers, PMs, CMs etc, and one must never never never ever waste any time in listening to statements aka bhashans of Ministers, PMs, CMs. Anyone and everyone can write great bhashan these days. There are speech writers all over.

[vic]

Super Great speech by Modiji. I think he is going to be the proverbial tortoise who is going to single mindedly walk towards his destination, of making India great, each moment of five years. He is not going to be rash but he will be relentless and will continue on his path for years on end.

[member_28025]

Wonderful speech by Modiji, truely inspiring. A few things I noticed:

- Soumitraji was enjoying it.

- Sonia was not understanding a word. At one time I caught her rolling her eyes. If this woman doesn't understand Hindi why doesn't she use an interpreter? I'm sure the speech is being translated in English.

- Pappu was nowhere to be seen

- The guy in orange behind Venkaiah Naidu was dozing

- The hall was not full. MPs should have taken the trouble to attend this session.

- I felt like slapping that Owaisi chap.

See some twitter reaction to the speech on
http://www.niticentral.com/2014/06/11/t ... 31457.html

[Picklu]

Super Great speech by Modiji. I think he is going to be the proverbial tortoise who is going to single mindedly walk towards his destination, of making India great, each moment of five years. He is not going to be rash but he will be relentless and will continue on his path for years on end.

And he is not going in tortoise pace. Not really. Behind the scenes, things are moving at break neck speed hitherto unseen.

[Rahul Mehta]

Did the amendment needed for the appointment Nripendra Mishra pass from Rajya Sabha?

It would be interesting to know what gave confidence to NaMo that that amendment will pass from Rajyasabja as well.

[Raja Ram]

When you want to exterminate enemies within, one way is to first neuter them, isolate them, explore and expose their whole network, build a case, wait for the opportune time and then move to kill. Ancient Indian wisdom!

Especially if there are extensive inroads by external enemies into every sinew of the nation. More so, if the level of your own defenses are poor due to years of neglect.

It is natural, that many will begin to doubt, but one has to wait for events to play out before jumping to conclusions! - An appreciation of the task on hand and the complex environment that faces NaMo will probably help arrive at a more realistic level of expectations. That is something that is not beyond an average BR forumite. This I firmly believe.

[panduranghari]

Vilayat ji's input is missed.

[kmkraoind]

_______________________________

Indics are striking back.
Arundhati Roy's family loses appeal to save wildlife holiday home

Mr Krishen said: “We bought the land and seven years later were served a notice by the forest department. They said the land was notified as an intended sanctuary and national park. We were not aware of the notification. There are 2,500 houses which people have built without knowing the wildlife protection act applies. They singled us out.

“The press say it’s Arundhati Roy’s house. It’s crazy and absurd to have her involved. The hypocrisy allegations are motivated by those stung by what Arundhati writes about. They look for any opportunity to bite back. This is about taking pot shots at her.”

Officials said ignorance was not a defence for breaching the wildlife protection act. Mr Krishen said he had not yet given up and that the final decision would be made in India’s High Court.

[niran]

Just in
NaMo has decided and given proper ministerial permits to build pucca road along
the whole of LAC ( mind you tis LAC not LOC) the aim is to have connectivity along the whole 4000+ km.
see the significance of his visit to Bhutan?(of all the places)

[kmkraoind]

Why there are only Iftar parties and not parties/food junkets for fasting Hindus on Maha Shivratri or Mukkoti Ekadasi. I had just tweeted NaMo of either abandoning Iftar parties or reciprocate Hindus with Maha Shivratri or Mukkoti Ekadasi parties. Just see what happens to this year Ramzan.

I too request request other BRFites to communicate same to Modi/BJP in your own ways.

Adder later: Why eye-to-eye principal (i.e. one's fasting festival is reciprocated by another fasting festival), let there be Diwali, Dasara, Sankranti and all Hindu festivals officially celebrated and thrown to public, if there are official Iftar parties.

[member_28025]

I thought Diwali parties were held as well but I may be mistaken. I think the media highlights Iftar parties but plays down Diwali celebrations.

[kmkraoind]

There are no official Diwali celebrations in India. Even White house celebrates, but not Indian govt institutions.

[sum]

^^ Only Dusshera since IIRC, PM ( and till now, Sonia-ji) shoots a arrow at Ravana in some function?

[member_28025]

In that case either start Diwali celebrations or stop Iftaar. I would say do the latter. Of course it would be a great idea to start Diwali and stop Iftaar but then it will raise a hue and cry among the siculars.