Should we discontinue EVMs?

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Re: Should we discontinue EVMs?

Postby Rahul Mehta » 30 Nov 2013 08:19

Experts claim that a 2x2 mm chip can receive radio signals from a distance of 100 metres. If these EVMs use such a chip, then the candidate's 'number' can allegedly be transmitted to the EVM from a distance any time before counting and the machines can change the votes inside. This leaves no traces and ensures that their favourite candidate wins, say experts.


Many experts have claimed that 2 mm * 2 mm chip can recieve radio signal from as far as 100 meters or even 500 meters, as range depends on how electrical power sender consumes. not recoever

But in context of EVM, this fact that " 2 mm * 2 mm chip can recieve radio signal from as far as 100 meters , and candidate number to be favored can be sent" was FIRST stated on Bharat-Rakshak on this thread !!

Three cheers to Bharat-Rakshak, and this thread :P !!!

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Re: Should we discontinue EVMs?

Postby Rahul Mehta » 02 Dec 2013 09:00

Only a person with 4 digit IQ can support EVM with printers !!! I foretold many moons ago that having one printer in every booth is logistic nightmare as transport of printers requires care, and if care is not shown, then they get damaged. Election Commisson wants to spend Rs 1600 crore on printers , which will never work anyway. And every election, even if 10% of printers are to be replaced, then cost will be Rs 160 crore every 5 years. And whats the cost of ballot papers? Hardly Re 1 per ballot paper , i.e. Rs 80 crores across India !!

In Mizoram, EC was planning to use 220 EVM with printers. ECIL could deliver only 21. Of these 21, 11 were broke before poll started. And rest 10 broke during the poll. Now Mizoram has small booths --- hardly 200-300 voters. Most booths in India have 700-900 voters. And during general elections, we need 8 lakh EVMs !! And if Assembly elections of say 2-3 major states are held along with Loksabha polls, then we will need 10 lakhs EVMs !!

Anyway , may-2014 elections will be with EVMs without printers . So CIA can peacefully change votes via remote control that CIA has planted in the EVMs. Solution ? OST, and fickle hearted are warned not to click this link due to explosive contents -- viewtopic.php?f=24&t=6646&p=1550144#p1550144


===

http://www.indianexpress.com/news/EC-ad ... -/1201829/

EC admits 'mass failure'

Express News Service , 01-dec-2013

The Election Commission has admitted "mass failure" of the Voter Verifiable Paper Audit Trail (VVPAT) machines in the November 25 Mizoram Assembly elections. The poll panel has summoned officials of the Hyderabad-based, state-owned Electronics Corporation of India Limited (ECIL) over this.

Addressing a press conference in Aizawl Saturday, Mizoram Chief Electoral Officer (CEO) Ashwani Kumar and Jt CEO H Lalengmawia said 21 VVPAT machines, of around 212 deployed in 10 constituencies within Aizawl city, failed. While 11 failed on November 24 as preparations were underway, 10 more failed as polling proceeded the following day and had to be replaced. :lol:

"I am not sure we can call this a robust machine at this stage," Kumar said, adding the ECIL was anyway two weeks late in delivering the VVPAT machines, which coupled with the failures led to "administrative challenges".

The VVPAT machines were used for the first time in the Noksen by-polls in Nagaland in September, and the Mizoram polls were the first instance of their use on a large scale. Attached to EVMs, the machines allow voters to verify that their vote has been cast in the way they wished, and were deployed in 10 of Mizoram's 40 constituencies.

They are slated to be used in the Delhi Assembly polls on December 4, in Chief Minister Sheila Dikshit's New Delhi constituency.

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Re: Should we discontinue EVMs?

Postby Vipul » 15 Mar 2014 03:24

It took EC 4 years to admit that EVMs could be hacked'.

On October 2013, the Supreme Court, in a landmark verdict, directed the Election Commission to equip its Electronic Voting Machines with Vote Verifiable Paper Audit Trial systems, which allows voters to verify that their votes are cast as intended and serves as an additional barrier to changing or destroying votes.

Subsequently, the EC introduced VVPAT in 10 assembly constituencies in Mizoram and one constituency each in Delhi, Madhya Pradesh, Chhattisgarh and Rajasthan during the elections in these states.Now, as the nation gears up for Lok Sabha election, the ECI has created a flutter by announcing that it may not be ready to roll out VVPAT before 2019.

The poll body says that it will need about 14 lakh VVPAT machines to introduce the system in all 543 Lok Sabha constituencies. However, it believes that so many machines cannot be produced and tested in such a short duration of time.

Under VVPAT, a printer-like apparatus is linked to EVM. When a vote is cast, a receipt is generated showing the serial number, name and symbol of the candidate.

It confirms the vote and the voter can verify the details. The receipt, once viewed, goes inside a container linked to the EVM and can only be accessed by the election officers in rarest of rare cases.The system allows a voter to challenge his or her vote on basis of the paper receipt for the first time. As per a new rule, the booth presiding officer will have to record the dissent of the voter, which would have to be taken into account at time of counting.

G V L Rao, part of Save India Democracy which exposed the frauds being committed through EVMs, told rediff.com that the bigger issue was that the government dragged its feet on sanctioning funds for the introduction of VVPAT despite the Supreme Court passing its order a year ago.

Rao said, “To begin with every EVM needs to be kept in a secure environment so that it is cannot be tampered with. However, what we had found is that these machines were dumped in an open yard which made it vulnerable to tampering.”

“As a result of dumping these machines in the open, many had gone missing and the ECI has not yet revealed these details to us.”

Rao added, “The most important part of this machine is the chip, which contains the source code. We suggested was that since these machines were kept in the open, it would be advisable to at least change the chip. These chips cost not more than Rs 100 each.”

“The other suggestion that we made and was not taken was regarding the maintenance of the machines. These machines are manufactured by Bharat Electronics Limited and Electronics Corporation of India. These companies send engineers to carry out a maintenance check or a first level check. Shockingly, these are not employees of the above mentioned two companies. They are agents hired on a contract basis and they conduct the inspection of these machines before the elections.”

“We suggested that that the job of the first level check be given to the National Informatics Centre so that the person doing the job has accountability. We had pointed out that some of these persons who were hired to conduct this check belonged to software companies that were being run by politicians.”

“The chances of tampering are higher in such cases. However, the ECI did not agree with us. The problem is that there is a leap of blind faith in technology and the ECI blindly trusts everything that the manufacturer does. We have always pointed out that elections cannot be based on trust.”

“It is necessary to ensure safeguards and more importantly the ECI should have implemented VVPAT by now. It took them almost four years to acknowledge that EVMs could be hacked.”

“When a person votes there ought to be a valid receipt of the same, just the way one would get a statement when cash is drawn out of an ATM. Without a valid record one cannot go back and check in case there is a problem.”

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Re: Should we discontinue EVMs?

Postby chaanakya » 17 Apr 2014 12:27

Defective Pune EVM 'transfers' all votes to Congress

Is this EVM magic what people are tlking about. This could be serious thing and cast doubt on poll result.
PUNE: Early morning voters, including many senior citizens, were bewildered when an electronic voting machine (EVM) reportedly "transferred" all votes to the Congress.

The incident happened at a polling booth at Shamrao Kalmadi School in the city when voters found that whichever button was pressed on the EVM, only the Congress light blinked.

Some of the alert voters brought this to the notice of the election officials who stopped voting immediately.

"The Election Commission authorities have ordered a new machine for this particular polling booth which is expected to come soon," said local BJP activist Madhur Sahasrabuddhe.

The poll panel has also decided to permit around 28 voters who had already cast their votes with the defective EVM, to vote afresh.

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Re: Should we discontinue EVMs?

Postby amritk » 18 Apr 2014 01:58

^ Luckily in this case the Congress light still flashed. Someone didn't do their hack well enough to cover their trail. Maybe just hardwired all the buttons together to the Congress input. How hard is it to forge a seal when it is known that even passports can be forged.

To the computer security gurus on this thread: what is the reason that billions (trillions??) in credit card transactions happens securely every day using apparently simple security (SSL + password), but the voting issue cannot be solved. The value of an individual vote cannot be (much) more than say a $100 transaction. I feel doubt when I vote, but feel 99.99... confidence that my payment will not be hijacked and be routed to some place I don't want it to go. Or that my credit card number will be stolen.

What is the basic reason from a theoretical point of view? Is it a difference in incentives? Is it the monopoly of the EC? ?? There are a lot of details discussed on this thread but just wondering what's fundamentally different about the two scenarios. Apparently in all countries, not just India.

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Re: Should we discontinue EVMs?

Postby member_28515 » 19 Apr 2014 15:28

Opinion polls are being ridiculed - the Wave favouring MODI is being discounted.. So as to build COVER FOR RIGGING THE ELECTIONS.
the illiterate majority of our nation doesnt get it.. - if you want to win the elections and develop India ..u have to outfox the british trained and managed congress..

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Re: Should we discontinue EVMs?

Postby Saral » 19 Apr 2014 19:10

VVPAT is a step in the wrong direction and generally a waste of resources. We need better clever real-time fraud/malfunction detection techniques without infringing on privacy issues. That is, a new generation of EVMs. Ultimately, fraud can still happen in current systems if all the officials at a booth collude. To deal with that you need biometrics etc. and by then the concept of a polling booth itself would be obsolete.

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Re: Should we discontinue EVMs?

Postby Rahul Mehta » 16 May 2014 06:37

In this thread, many had expressed an opinion that EVM rigging isnt possible at large scale because if it were possiblem then it would have come in media by now. And since it didnt come in media by now, hence it proves that EVM rigging wasnt possible in large scale. Well, many HUGE riggings happens in all sectors of polity, and many of them never get reported in paid-media. eg census-2011 data has been suppressed ONLY, and yet 99.99 out of 100 Indians dont even know about it. And there are many more. Further, pls see Hari Prasad's video. Not even one TV channel has shown the full version. and NO TV-channels shows that using remote, one can also rig 1000s of EVMs in one go !!! IOW, "cover-up" of that video also speaks volumes.

=====

The way CIA had rigged 2009 elections was

1. CIA had paid EVM designers to keep display of EVM detachable so that real display can be detached and fake one can be attached.

2. Now new EVMs are shipped from Banglore to collector's office in trucks of private companies CIA got trucking contracts by placing a bid so low that no honest trucker can place

3. Thus CIA agents had EVMS with them for full 1-3 days

4. CIA agents opened EVMs and placed remote control circuit in them

5. After elections, some 1700 EVMs of that constituency are stored in Collector's office. CIA would send van near office and within 1 second, by sending the candidate number, change the votes of all candidates in all those 1700 EVMs.

CIA paid mediamen to defend EVMs. Except Bhara-Rakshak , CIA had paid many on internet fora to defend EVMs. I also got call from CIA to defend EVMs on internet forums for handsome cash in return. I declined. Other BRites too must have declined. But I am sure many non-BRites would have accepted the deal. So most postors on net defended EVMs.

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Re: Should we discontinue EVMs?

Postby habal » 16 May 2014 09:40

ab tera kya hoga kalia ?

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Re: Should we discontinue EVMs?

Postby Prem » 16 May 2014 22:39

habal wrote:ab tera kya hoga kalia ?


Mehta Ji Ko Chai Wai Pooccho Tabbi Tho Jaggegey.

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Re: Should we discontinue EVMs?

Postby vishvak » 16 May 2014 22:50

Let us not forget genuine issues with EVMs. In fact if there were no issues with EVMs theoretically, there wouldn't be many people spending time on this issue.

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Re: Should we discontinue EVMs?

Postby chaanakya » 18 May 2014 13:40

Rahul Mehta wrote:In this thread, many had expressed an opinion that EVM rigging isnt possible at large scale because if it were possiblem then it would have come in media by now. And since it didnt come in media by now, hence it proves that EVM rigging wasnt possible in large scale. Well, many HUGE riggings happens in all sectors of polity, and many of them never get reported in paid-media. eg census-2011 data has been suppressed ONLY, and yet 99.99 out of 100 Indians dont even know about it. And there are many more. Further, pls see Hari Prasad's video. Not even one TV channel has shown the full version. and NO TV-channels shows that using remote, one can also rig 1000s of EVMs in one go !!! IOW, "cover-up" of that video also speaks volumes.

=====

The way CIA had rigged 2009 elections was

1. CIA had paid EVM designers to keep display of EVM detachable so that real display can be detached and fake one can be attached.

2. Now new EVMs are shipped from Banglore to collector's office in trucks of private companies CIA got trucking contracts by placing a bid so low that no honest trucker can place

3. Thus CIA agents had EVMS with them for full 1-3 days

4. CIA agents opened EVMs and placed remote control circuit in them

5. After elections, some 1700 EVMs of that constituency are stored in Collector's office. CIA would send van near office and within 1 second, by sending the candidate number, change the votes of all candidates in all those 1700 EVMs.

CIA paid mediamen to defend EVMs. Except Bhara-Rakshak , CIA had paid many on internet fora to defend EVMs. I also got call from CIA to defend EVMs on internet forums for handsome cash in return. I declined. Other BRites too must have declined. But I am sure many non-BRites would have accepted the deal. So most postors on net defended EVMs.


I can't believe that you were candidate in this election.

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Re: Should we discontinue EVMs?

Postby Lilo » 18 May 2014 14:01

Next elections must have
1)Paper trail EVMs and
2)All those EVMs must be manufactured(including the Chip) by ECIL in India based govt owned factories.

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Re: Should we discontinue EVMs?

Postby Lilo » 19 May 2014 15:59

x-post

SanjayC wrote:US scientists 'hack' India electronic voting machines

By Julian Siddle Science reporter, BBC News

Scientists at a US university say they have developed a technique to hack into Indian electronic voting machines. After connecting a home-made device to a machine, University of Michigan researchers were able to change results by sending text messages from a mobile.

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Re: Should we discontinue EVMs?

Postby Uttam » 19 May 2014 19:34

Scientists at a US university say they have developed a technique to hack into Indian electronic voting machines. After connecting a home-made device to a machine, University of Michigan researchers were able to change results by sending text messages from a mobile.


Every thing can be hacked. The paper ballot system was much worse than EVM. Stuffing ballot boxes, stealing them, etc. were common occurances. Just the fear of modern tech should not prevent us from moving forward. If there is a possiblity that EVM can be hacked then it should be fixed rather than doing away with EVM.

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Re: Should we discontinue EVMs?

Postby A Sharma » 19 May 2014 22:14

ECIL R&D REPORT - 2014

Has a section on Secure Manufacturing Software for EVM Production

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Re: Should we discontinue EVMs?

Postby Mukesh.Kumar » 20 May 2014 13:14

Univ of Michigan claim that they have hacked an Indian EVM. Old news but trending in most Shared on BBC.

BBC Report

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Re: Should we discontinue EVMs?

Postby Mukesh.Kumar » 22 May 2014 16:20

Guys, anyone can translate from Hindi and say what is this? AAP supporters are flaunting this across Social Media claiming EVM Fraud in Varanasi Elections. I am getting a CT from yesterday's post on BBC which had pushed up a four year old article on Most Read List as detailed in earlier post.

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Re: Should we discontinue EVMs?

Postby SanjayC » 22 May 2014 16:34

^^^ It says a sector magistrate of Varanasi took an EVM machine home. His son took a picture of it and put it on Facebook. It went viral, forcing EC to take action against the magistrate. The EVM machine was, however, not used in elections. It was a spare machine.

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Re: Should we discontinue EVMs?

Postby Dileep » 23 May 2014 15:15

YouKnowWhat? Apparently It was MODI who got all the EVMs rigged!! Isn't it so, RMji?

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Re: Should we discontinue EVMs?

Postby SBajwa » 23 May 2014 22:55

Admins!!

Can we just delete this thread? BRs are wasting their energy on non issues!

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Re: Should we discontinue EVMs?

Postby Rahul Mehta » 24 Jun 2014 11:47

I heard that VVPAT prints serial number of candidate, names of candidate, party name as well as the party symbol.

http://www.livemint.com/Politics/PE74wT ... votin.html

The EVM-VVPAT system consists of an interface which connects an EVM to a printer which has a list of candidate details corresponding with the EVM. Under the VVPAT system, when the voter presses the button for the candidate of his choice in the EVM, a paper ballot with the serial number, name and symbol of the candidate will be printed.


So where are these 4 details for each candidate stored? And how are these details entered in the EVMs? And which module stores this information? BU, CU , printer or some other module? Can anyone answer these questions? TIA

Because if CU is storing this information, then the rigging is easy. Using names of candidates in RAM and names of parties in RAM, the CPU's microcode can decide who has to be favored. Then CPU's microcode can also check if printer is attached or not. If the printer isnt attached, then it can add votes to favorite candidate and subtract votes from the rest of the candidates. And if printer is attached, then it will act honestly. Now some 95% EVMs didnt have printer connected to them. So CPUs in those EVMs can rig the votes.

===

Dileep,

EVMs are rigged by CIA only. NaMo , Sonia, AK, AAP, BJP, Congress, Adani Ambani dont have capability to plant remote controls or make a rigged CPU and place it in EVMs in bulk. These people cant rig even one EVM, except by capturing booths which isnt possible at large scale. And none has capacity to stop media from showing the Hari Prasad Video. So EVM rigging is CIA job only.

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Re: Should we discontinue EVMs?

Postby Rahul Mehta » 09 Sep 2014 11:25

http://www.dnaindia.com/india/report-ma ... rt-2017127

Make stand clear on scrapping booth-wise counting of votes : Supreme Court

8-sep-2014

The Supreme Court today pulled up the Centre for not taking decision on Election Commission's request to do away with counting of votes on a booth-wise basis and asked it to make its stand clear within four weeks.The apex court also sought response from the Election Commission on whether it can be done without bringing any amendment to existing rules. A bench headed by Chief Justice R M Lodha said counting of votes on a booth-wise basis can result in post election vindictive approach of the winning candidates towards that booth if he didn't get votes from there.

It raised question on why the Centre has referred the issue to Law Commission and has not taken any decision itself in the last five years when the Commission had written letter to it on the issue.

"The Election Commission is an expert body and it knows its job well. What Law Commission would do on the issue. It is almost five years and 10 months since the Commission wrote to you," the bench, also comprising Kurian Joseph and R F Nariman, said. "Law Commission has nothing to do in this issue. We must know what is your response," the bench said, adding, "You can't keep the matter pending by putting it on the shoulder of Law Commission". It said that Centre considered the issue in 2011 and then went to sleep on the issue and the government again took up the matter in 2013 but did not pursue it. The apex court had on May 12 sought response of the EC on a plea seeking stoppage of ward-wise counting of votes on the ground that the declaration of result of every polling booth strikes at the root of right to privacy attached to voting.

The bench was hearing a public interest litigation (PIL) filed by Punjab-based advocate Yogesh Gupta who contended that "the uniform way of declaration of result for the entire constituency as a whole would bring balanced growth and balanced funding and it would also reduce cases fuelled by political vendetta, ill-will and hatred". To buttress his contention that an amendment in the system would reduce intimidation and blackmail tactics, the lawyer had cited reported threat by Maharashtra Deputy Chief Minister Ajit Pawar to residents of Baramati village on the eve of last polling in general election that he would cut off water supply if they did not cast their ballot in favour of his cousin and sitting NCP MP Supriya Sule. "In the present form of declaration of result the political parties would become aware of the wards where they have not been voted and where they have got maximum votes," the petition said, arguing that the existing system of declaration of results also acts as a catalyst for the registration of false cases based on political vendetta against the persons who have not voted for the victorious parties".

====================end of news article=========

As long as EVMs are used, there is NO way to hide boothwise voting, unless a totalizer is used, which make vote rigging by using totalizer much easier.

In past when paper ballots were used, three booths were taken at random and their ballot boxes would be opened and the ballot were mixed before counting. Segregation was done only if counts differ by more than 1% of totals as reported by presiding officers, and the counts can have impact on result (i.e. vote difference between winner and next is too low). So boothwise voting was generally not known.

EVMs came in 1998 and things changed. There is one EVM per booth. And so boothwise voting becomes known to MPs, MLAs etc as their counting agents are on each counting table. Also, the data is recorded. And collectors and EC have to keep the record of each booth for 1 year at least. But it was not officially given to public. In 2011, EC decided to give it to public due to RTI. Now even if EC stops giving the boothwise data to public, there is NO way EC can stop that boothwise data from reaching hands of candidates' , MPs, MLAs, CM, PM etc. And anyone who can bribe collector can also get this data. And there is NO way of mixing EVMs unless we use totalizer. So since 1998, candidates have been knowing boothwise votes.

Moral of the story is --- if EVMs stay then boothwise counts become known. And if boothwise counts have to be hidden, then EVMs have to go or one has to use totalizers. Using totalizers will drastically increase possibility of rigging. So my vote is to remove EVMs. Each one on his own.

And SCjs as always are talking vague. SCjs are not making clear what they want. SCjs support EVMs. And then they want boothwise voting to go. Do SCjs want to use totalizers? They are not clear. SCjs are supposed to asnwer questions, not ask questions. If center doesnt answer for 5 years, then they should decide on center's behalf and close the matter.

New govt cant be technically faulted as it is only 100 day old. But boothwise votes have become known to MPs etc since EVMs became universal in 1998. So each political party had 16 years to decide. Rest is all political, and this thread is technical. So I will stop here. Lets see what decision comes in next few weeks

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Re: Should we discontinue EVMs?

Postby chaanakya » 10 Sep 2014 23:23

Good points RMji. This is breaking heads of ECI. I think if only constituencywise data is announced that would help. Booth wise polled data would still be available. In totaliser, partywise polled data for a booth may not be available. But there is still a catch. You can not use totaliser for all evms of a constituency since that number would be huge. Current processes do not support that methodology. And if we go for round wise counting by randomly selecting evms , still we have a situation where people would make informed guess, based on booth agents detail and counting agent details clubbed with round wise data.


Single round counting would be a logistical nightmare.

However, to tell you the decision, which could be coming, is to use Roundwise totaliser and not to declare boothwise data. That is under active consideration. The decision would come soon. There is a possibility of tempering but I think ECI would be able to overcome that. That is presently best possible solution using evms unless some other solution is offered.

Of course evm tempering theories have been tossed to the winds by the result of GELS 2014.

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Re: Should we discontinue EVMs?

Postby Rahul Mehta » 11 Sep 2014 05:52

Totalizer makes rigging a child's play by rigging totalizer.

EVM rigging is neither proved nor falsified by results of 1999 , 2004, 2009 or 2014.

Mass scale EVM rigging can be done with ease by planting remote control in EVMs in factory or in transit. And so it should be assumed that rigging has been done. This is the principle applied in cryptography. When a cryptography method used in market is showed as hackable, then it is assumed that it is being hacked and so it is abandoned. The normal men will apply same principle on EVM and abandon it.

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Re: Should we discontinue EVMs?

Postby chaanakya » 11 Sep 2014 11:12

Basically , I do not subscribe to EVM rigging theory unless positive proof of actual rigging is offered. Too many players involved and we have to assume every Indian , who is involved in EVM from factory to Counting Hall , is a crook.

In Totaliser, possibility of error increases. But then process could be evolved to cross check accuracy in disputed cases.

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Re: Should we discontinue EVMs?

Postby SaiK » 12 Sep 2014 07:22

EVMs should be strengthened with integrating the system with more federated and centralized system, all satellite linked dedicated and protected networked., with paper trail v&v.

EVMs are open for fraud. the system design is still vulnerable.

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Re: Should we discontinue EVMs?

Postby Rahul Mehta » 24 Sep 2014 19:26

http://www.deccanchronicle.com/140404/n ... s-only-bjp

Electronic Voting Machine that votes only for BJP

Guwahati: In what has alarmed election officials as well as the political parties in Assam, an EVM during a mandatory mock poll was found to have been casting votes to only one political party. Every time the button was pressed, the vote went to the BJP candidate.

Chief electoral officer Vijendra said, “As soon as it came to our notice during the mock poll, the authorised technicians of the commission has been asked to look into it.” He clarified that EVM was faulty and it had been replaced.

“The fault came to notice during a mock poll organised in front of the representatives of all the political parties,” he said asserting that commission was following zero tolerance policy on EVMs and all the machines are put to test in presence of representatives of all the political parties.

The Jorhat parliamentary constituency returning officer and deputy commissioner Vishal Vasant Solanki said that all EVMs in his custody were being put through a second level of tests by engineers of the Electronics Corporation of India Ltd, the company from Hyderabad, which manufactures EVMs.

====================== end of news ===============

I am not sure if all votes were going to BJP or button was blinking for BJP.

But EVMs and such news can undermine real victory of any party.

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Re: Should we discontinue EVMs?

Postby chaanakya » 24 Sep 2014 19:48

It will be blinking Issue. When any button is pressed, only one lights up, same one all the time. Such EVMs are removed from Polling. It does not mean votes are recorded for same button.

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Re: Should we discontinue EVMs?

Postby JE Menon » 25 Sep 2014 08:21

Crazywal says that's why slAAP and some "others" lost.

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Re: Should we discontinue EVMs?

Postby Rahul Mehta » 25 Sep 2014 08:30

chaanakya wrote:It will be blinking Issue. When any button is pressed, only one lights up, same one all the time. Such EVMs are removed from Polling. It does not mean votes are recorded for same button.


I agree. Most of the time, it is some button getting stuck issue.

The voting gets recorded correctly. And much after polling ends, and between counting, it is changed via remote control. The famous Hariprasad video explains how remote control can be planted in EVMs, and using that votes can shifted.

JE Menon wrote:Crazywal says that's why slAAP and some "others" lost.


AK has never demanded end to EVMs.

And BJP-supporters said same in may-2009 --- that it lost in may-2004 and may-2009 due to EVMs. When a party wins, most of its leaders and supports become pro-EVM. And when it loses they become anti-EVM.

That aside, Hariprasad video puts the whole debate at end. It shows that if one can plant remote control inside EVMs when EVMs are in transit from factory to collector's office or in collector's godown before election starts, then votes of 1000s of EVMs can be changed in one second with one remote control signal within seconds.

Thats why pro-EVM folks now oppose the proposal of giving EVMs to ethical hackers at cost price !! Because ethical hacks will show how they can be rigged at mass scale with a few persons at top, and then people will lose faith in EVMs

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Re: Should we discontinue EVMs?

Postby ramana » 22 Jan 2019 06:00

Up.
EVMs are back in focus as 2019 elections approach.

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Re: Should we discontinue EVMs?

Postby Yagnasri » 22 Jan 2019 06:37

We stopped discussing this issue since the last elections. Now it is back in news with new tech levels and new allegations all over the news.

https://www.thequint.com/tech-and-auto/ ... ed-in-2014

https://www.deccanchronicle.com/nation/ ... laims.html

https://www.timesnownews.com/india/arti ... ons/351332

There was no clear cut explanation as to how they have been hacked and manipulated anywhere in this news items. Allegations are being made just like that. It is as if the entire election process is being discredited by a deliberate campaign of false information.

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Re: Should we discontinue EVMs?

Postby disha » 22 Jan 2019 08:48

Any "self declared self appointed self certified self awarded computer security expert" from umrica will get maximum airtime by #mediapimps and dynasty.

There is nothing to discuss. The timing of the "announcement" (#pappu is gone missing and most likely in UK) and the location reeks of cambridge analytica and interference in Indian elections.

EC did a great job in swiftly trashing the theory and threatening with libel action.

We must *never* go back to paper ballots.

Supreme court already looked at the issue and recommended VVPATs (Voter-Verified Paper Audit Trails). And they are being implemented. EVMs with VVPATs are very secure. And suffices.

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Re: Should we discontinue EVMs?

Postby Lilo » 22 Jan 2019 13:42

Globalists are targeting the legitimacy of the election process everywhere - they want powerful nations to split into irreconcilable electoral blocks so - the newly elected leader wont have legitimacy in the eyes of the other block. #EVMHacking

The opposition knows it will lose 2019 and they need to help the globalists to create an orange revolution like that happened in Ukraine, Egypt and other places post polls. #EVMHacking

Basically discredit NDA 2019 win and then start a orange revolution with globalists' support.

https://twitter.com/VMuppi/status/1087492054815571969

One more datapoint as seen often is the voter confusion being created pre and post election using the rigged opinion polls and exit polls - there is wide spread disbelief in people when the actual election results comes out in both opposing camps.

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Re: Should we discontinue EVMs?

Postby Yagnasri » 22 Jan 2019 14:00

Massive information warfare in which MSM taking active part and SM tools are taking passive part also contributes to legitimizing or delegitimizing the undesirable results and administrations.

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Re: Should we discontinue EVMs?

Postby Ravi Karumanchiri » 22 Jan 2019 14:56

IMO, EVMs should only be used in the following manner: Voter makes selections on electronic machine, which spits-out a paper ballot that includes a serial number tear-off "chit". The voter examines the paper ballot to verify it is marked correctly, and tears-off their "chit", before depositing the ballot in a *clear* ballot box. Everything is officiated and 'scrutineered' by party or candidate designees who observe everything, including the counting of paper ballots. These figures are tallied and reported, along with the EVM tallies. Discrepancies are to be explained or investigated.

Afterward, a voter should be able to look-up their cast ballot using that serial number, and see that their EVM votes are correct (be they for candidates or referendum questions). This way, EVMs provide added value and security; and their usage precludes "hacking". A real-world paper-trail that should be registered electronically, is provided to the people at a very low cost. Spoiled or ambiguous ballots would go to zero, and every vote would count.

What's not to like?

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Re: Should we discontinue EVMs?

Postby Pratyush » 22 Jan 2019 15:00

Can't defeat a leader. Discredit the mechanism that allowed for the result.

It is only the al called liberal and progressive left that has a problem with such results. And it this left that accuses every one else of being authoritarian. But it is infact they who are authoritarian.

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Re: Should we discontinue EVMs?

Postby SBajwa » 22 Jan 2019 20:20

How can somebody hack a proprietary hardware and software created by ECIL? Unless the source code of the operating system and all electronics are available?

I bet these EVMs do not even have standard ports (proprietary) and have zero wireless capability. Why would you want to have a wireless port in an EVM machine?

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Re: Should we discontinue EVMs?

Postby Rahul M » 22 Jan 2019 20:45

RaviK, that's already how it's done. google VVPAT.
or watch this https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fWfAKod_-bI

black propaganda in the works.


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