India-US Strategic News and Discussion

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JwalaMukhi
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Re: India-US Strategic News and Discussion

Post by JwalaMukhi »

schinnas wrote:It is not clear what drives US media to indulge in articles that dont reflect reality in India but paint India in bad light.
If it is not yet clear by now, it will be almost never clear. The reason for that being never clear is that when one positions sympathetically to the cause of the US media or US media ignorance or the purported ignorance of US establishment, it interferes with clear understanding of what drives the movers, shakers and influencers. Why do not they understand what is well known is conundrum that will bother sympathetic view.
But when clinically observed, it becomes easy as to the collective action of the media, which is nothing but an extension of the US establishment.
The facts are:
1) India is not everyday concern of the average sixpack, except when it is time to for them to feel better in d1ck measuring events. The media amply supplies the ammunition for the sixpacks, to feel the super pawah superiority, by periodically dishing out gutter inspector reports about India. This is important for influencing the sixpacks to see India as how the establishment prefers.

2) The establishment heavily relies on the advise and expertise of the past-colonial masters to set the narrative for the Indian subcontinent and is neither benign nor sympathetic. There are many willing collaborators to advance that narrative spanning across the continents. Hint: please see svinayak's post referring who has stake and vested interests in funding such portrayal.

As a corollary:
3) US is not everyday concern of the average aam admi in India, except when it is time for aam admi to be berated by the Indian media about how backward the aam admi to the super pawah sixpack. It gels well and acts as a self-fulfilling prophecy which the Indian establishment swallowed for a long while.

4) India is extremely diverse, is an understatement, and it provides enough avenues for making mountain out of molehill for the vested interests.

When item 3 is broken, i.e., when aam admi in India gives as much importance as to: why US media is portraying India in bad light to as much as the Somalian media is portraying India, then it doesn't matter. But it will continue to gnaw the heck out of elite men in India or elsewhere, why US is not being friendly, or how US sixpack needs to be educated to like/love India. That is a fool's errand and not the job of India/ns.
JwalaMukhi
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Re: India-US Strategic News and Discussion

Post by JwalaMukhi »

Completing the thought:
For who it is really concerning as to negative portrayal of India, there are multiple ways to deal with it. The cost effective way is already given in the previous post, i.e., to give a flying f**k as what the media portrays - which most aam admi in India would anyways do.

Let's see how others deal with such situations, who are immensely worried about "log kya khenge'" folks.
The panda way:
Swarm outlets with 50centers to post non-sense. No need for exhibits as it should be very clear.
The Unkil way:
Swarm outlets with sophisticated 50centers 99centers to post non-sense.
Seriously, object to any hint of negative news being portrayed .
Exhibit A: The positive news thread was seriously objected by many on this board itself, which caused unmeasurable khujli.

The other way:
Fools errand of using the already biased media framework and work within the parameters established by them to counter, patiently educate or blow smoke as to why that news is not newsworthy.

pick ur choice.
1. Get into pissing contest - counter post negative news. --This is admittedly lot of fun and best bang for the buck.
2. The Bania way -- Place as much importance to it as one would to Somalian news paper. - The best bang for no buck.
3. Patronising way -- Spend time and energy working within the contours to argue and make them see light. Fools errand.
4. Swarm -- 50 center or 99 centers way. Most probably might help one's personal kitty, however from Indian establishment there is no one to pay those 50 or 99 cents.
UlanBatori
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Re: India-US Strategic News and Discussion

Post by UlanBatori »

Ppl:
SACW stands for South Asia Citizens Communists Web. It is Internet Arm of the Mother Ship of all the commie-pakis spiders: PROXSA (Progressive Sh*ts of South Asia). They had a branch in France in the days (1990s-2002) when the Communists used to get lots of votes in France.

See here:

http://narayanankomerath.wordpress.com/ ... mber-2006/

US arm includes SINGH Foundation (Secular Indians for National Growth and Harmony), nothing to do with Sikhs! Biju Matthew was the Prime Brain of the scam, and it channelled money to and from India via Teesta Setalwad's and Javed Anand's AMAN. As you found out above, even in 2002, it had an Overhead Rate of over 52 percent, and then its "direct" costs were all for terrorism.

These things were studied and exposed in detail waaaay back circa 2002-2003.
They were :rotfl: out of the Internet. Then they raised their pointy heads in 2004 after the tsunami to tell people NOT to help tsunami victims.
See http://www.ivarta.com/columns/OL_050117.htm

Then they "came out" and officially joined forces with the Indian Muslim Council
See here:
http://www.geocities.com/charcha_2000/e ... cchio.html

That established their clear funding contacts with Pakistani terrorism. About that time, the FBI started investigating them seriously, and led to the arrest and conviction of one of those mentioned there, and the firing of a couple of others - they were evidently part of the FBI's findings.

This gang is funded also by the Conversionist NGOs in India (you saw the names posted under the NGO thread..) So they started jumping up and down trying to Save the Soul of the Great Satan by banning the arrival of the Chief Minister of Gujarat. Until then their interest was to march in New York yelling
Brick by brick, wall by wall,
US Imperialism will fall..


I have not read their so-called "Report". I read the one in 2002 for the 30 minutes it took to read through the whole thing and :rotfl:

So that time, they had just listed all organizations that had names that were in Hindi, or Samskrtam or Kannada, and declared that this meant they were Fronts of the RSS for "Hinduization".

Including the Meeraj Medical Center. Hey, SACW Big Spider Dr. VinayLalAssociateProfessorOfHistoryAtUCLA (the guy insisted on making everyone know the dump where he worked, and 12 years later he has not managed to get promoted to Professor!)
Himself declared that the Meeraj Medical Center was an RSS Outfit.

He was known best for trying to get attention to his articles by publishing articles saying that the Taliban were perfectly justified in destroying the Bamiyan Buddha Statues, a UNESCO heritage site.

Until he could deny any longer that the Meeraj Medical Center was an affiliate of the Presbyterian Church of North America.

The 2002 Report of course did not Make them liars, they were that long before. So, the SACW is known for just one thing: lying. Why should anyone read their Latest Report?
KLNMurthy
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Re: India-US Strategic News and Discussion

Post by KLNMurthy »

Gus wrote:calm, no-nonsense style, unflappable, master of understatement, reply was a classic, “No Drama Obama", what Obama had said in six words that were worth a thousand.,

really...looks like nayar is head over heels in love with ombaba..
He is just trying hard to signal that he is not a keyboard jingo. He also said in the article that Obama is vindictive. He has to protect his sources and possibly himself.
KLNMurthy
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Re: India-US Strategic News and Discussion

Post by KLNMurthy »

Rudradev wrote:^ These people are just waiting for an incident, which they can then use as a propaganda tool to convince GOTUS that its "concerns" about Modi are valid.

The Congi/Sickulars in India, meanwhile, are doing everything in their power to try and manufacture such an incident.

If the net result is that Modi's Washington visit is canceled, and/or economic investment from the US is blocked because of rapidly souring relations... who are the winners? Congis, ISI and ISI's agents in Berkely Haas. They all win, because a large part of the fast-tracked economic recovery program being laid out by team Modi gets derailed.
No need to "wait for" an incident as I am sure you know. No one goes to the trouble of funding a UCB India-specific conflict center on the off-chance something may happen.Incidents will definitely happen and will test our vaunted "resilience."
Cosmo_R
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Re: India-US Strategic News and Discussion

Post by Cosmo_R »

amit wrote:I think the KP Nayar report should be taken with a pinch of salt.

It's not that I think K P Nayar is misreporting, however, I would wonder the motives of KP's source. Can we trust that the source is not trying to put a spanner into Modi's visit? I mean BO may have said what he said but the context is everything in such a situation. We don't really know the context or whether BA said anything else as supplement?

This could very well have been a "leak" to provoke NM into an extreme reaction like cancelling the visit or downgrading the importance. We need to remember that there's a quite a constituency in the SD which is aligned with the Berkley Hass position.

I think GoI should go into the visit with open eyes and open mind. The conclusions can be drawn after the visit.
+1
RoyG
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Re: India-US Strategic News and Discussion

Post by RoyG »

KP Nayar's grandson is a close friend of mine. Had a chance to speak with him a few times. He doesn't talk much but loved to comment on the 70's and 80's. Prefers to spend most of his days in study. Told me once that, "India is a different place today" when I asked him about Modi. Doesn't seem to care much. Most of these leftists seem to be giving up or switching sides these days.
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Re: India-US Strategic News and Discussion

Post by Prem »

UlanBatori wrote:Ppl:
SACW stands for South Asia Citizens Communists Web. It is Internet Arm of the Mother Ship of all the commie-pakis spiders: PROXSA (Progressive Sh*ts of South Asia). They had a branch in France in the days (1990s-2002) when the Communists used to get lots of votes in France. Then they "came out" and officially joined forces with the Indian Muslim Council See here:
http://www.geocities.com/charcha_2000/e ... cchio.htmlThe 2002 Report of course did not Make them liars, they were that long before. So, the SACW is known for just one thing: lying. Why should anyone read their Latest Report?
Sikh Coalition of NYC was the one who sent the Khalistani guy in 2003 to liason with IMC. Fai too was active means they all had clear direct line of communication with ISI. It is the same Sikh coalition which is suspected to be the helper of Sangeeta Richard when she was in "hiding"and BTW Sangeeta also has Paki woman friend and adviser. IAMC site consider India's PM Modi as PNG.
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Re: India-US Strategic News and Discussion

Post by KLNMurthy »

Rudradev wrote:So SACW is the East Coast counterpart of Berkeley Haas ACR in the West.
Sekhar Ramakrishnan is an old school naxalite from the 1980s.
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Re: India-US Strategic News and Discussion

Post by ramana »

Jhujar

Any link to the Richards disappearance in New York?
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Re: India-US Strategic News and Discussion

Post by Mort Walker »

This visit should be low key from a pomp and circumstance view. It should be big from a corporate representative view. There is the need to get manufacturing going big time and has to be done not only domestically, but from outside as well.
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Re: India-US Strategic News and Discussion

Post by Prem »

ramana wrote:Jhujar
Any link to the Richards disappearance in New York?
The NYC organisation Sikhs for Justice was explicit in taking stand against India and rallying for Sangeeta. They coordinate their activity with Sikh Coalition which is front iof AISSF, very close associate of Bhindrawala and were considered the most violent group. There was rumor that Bhindrawala realized the mistake of holding ground inside Harmandir Sahib but was challenged, threatened by AISSF if he back down from show down with IA . Most of them are controlled by Paki and their partners of 80 era. Some one directed them to do the drama for Sangeeta and these guys were happy to show their worth to their masters.
Bharara might be right in saying that it was not him who was pulling the strings.
SFJ was requested to come under the Umbrela of being Indian oraganisation but they refused saying they are not Indian and have nothing to do with politics . Indians too should not treat them as one of fellow travellers.
Prem
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Re: India-US Strategic News and Discussion

Post by Prem »

http://www.business-standard.com/articl ... 192_1.html
US looking at 'reinvigorating' India-US relationship: Rhodes
The US is excited about the prospect of "reinvigorating" the Indo-US ties under the new Indian Government and is looking forward to a meeting between President Barack Obama and Prime Minister Narendra Modi, a top White House official has said."Economy and trade, energy and climate change, regional security, counter-terrorism and Asia Pacific region are expected to be the focus areas when Obama meets Modi, this would also be an opportunity for the two leaders to establish a personal equations for the years to come," Deputy National Security Advisor Ben Rhodes said yesterday.The White House is eagerly looking at "reinvigorating" India-US relationship, the top Obama aide said, adding that no date has been set yet for the Modi-Obama meeting."We are very excited about the prospect of giving new shot of energy in the US-India relationship. Having a strong Prime Minister, who is new to office, has ambitions, I think would be helpful," Rhodes said.
"The first impression is that they (Modi Government) come in (to power) with a lot of energy, with a substantial mandate and with a lot of ambition. We (Obama Administration) were impressed by the (election) campaign of Prime Minister Modi"."And he was not shy about expressing an ambitious view what he wants his government to do," Deputy National Security Advisor said."He (Modi) was clearly in his conversation with the (US) President, and his conversation publicly that the primary focus of his is going to be revitalising the Indian economy, which is good for us"."We very much support the efforts that can be taken domestically within India to promote growth, because that would definitely benefit the United States," the top presidential aide told reporters."So we see an opportunity. Whenever you have a new leader coming up with that kind of mandate, it opens up space for greater co-operation, because new items can come on the agenda, or things that have got put aside because of the election season, we can take up again," Rhodes said.As Modi pursues his economic policies, the Obama Administration will try figure out how the two countries can work more closely together, he said.Modi is expected to meet Obama in September."Whenever you have a new leader, part of it is forging a personal relationship, part of it is also hearing about what their program is"."So I think, President Obama would want to hear about policies and reforms that Prime Minister Modi is pursuing in India," :roll: he said.( Sure, Modi will be interested in listening to President Barak Hussein Obama's rational in Supplying Billions of Dollars worth weapenry to terrorist state Pakistan)
sanjaykumar
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Re: India-US Strategic News and Discussion

Post by sanjaykumar »

JwalaMukhi wrote:
schinnas wrote:It is not clear what drives US media to indulge in articles that dont reflect reality in India but paint India in bad light.
If it is not yet clear by now, it will be almost never clear. The reason for that being never clear is that when one positions sympathetically to the cause of the US media or US media ignorance or the purported ignorance of US establishment, it interferes with clear understanding of what drives the movers, shakers and influencers. Why do not they understand what is well known is conundrum that will bother sympathetic view.
But when clinically observed, it becomes easy as to the collective action of the media, which is nothing but an extension of the US establishment.
The facts are:
1) India is not everyday concern of the average sixpack, except when it is time to for them to feel better in d1ck measuring events. The media amply supplies the ammunition for the sixpacks, to feel the super pawah superiority, by periodically dishing out gutter inspector reports about India. This is important for influencing the sixpacks to see India as how the establishment prefers.

2) The establishment heavily relies on the advise and expertise of the past-colonial masters to set the narrative for the Indian subcontinent and is neither benign nor sympathetic. There are many willing collaborators to advance that narrative spanning across the continents. Hint: please see svinayak's post referring who has stake and vested interests in funding such portrayal.

As a corollary:
3) US is not everyday concern of the average aam admi in India, except when it is time for aam admi to be berated by the Indian media about how backward the aam admi to the super pawah sixpack. It gels well and acts as a self-fulfilling prophecy which the Indian establishment swallowed for a long while.

4) India is extremely diverse, is an understatement, and it provides enough avenues for making mountain out of molehill for the vested interests.

When item 3 is broken, i.e., when aam admi in India gives as much importance as to: why US media is portraying India in bad light to as much as the Somalian media is portraying India, then it doesn't matter. But it will continue to gnaw the heck out of elite men in India or elsewhere, why US is not being friendly, or how US sixpack needs to be educated to like/love India. That is a fool's errand and not the job of India/ns.


Errr......the Indian establishment does not have the culture (that is the directive) to excoriate anyone, unlike say China or Israel. Witness McCain's recent musings of reading stories on Modi's Gujarat past. The Global Times would have been double quick to point out McCain's personal bombing of Vietnamese in a war many Americans cannot justify.

The Global Times reaction to the comments by the British Foreign Minister were expilcit of their tit for tat response.

India perhaps shows some maturity, or perhaps they will extract their pound of flesh when their economy is 6 trillion.

We will see.
Madhusudhan
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Re: India-US Strategic News and Discussion

Post by Madhusudhan »

Modi really ought to cancel his visit to the US in light of the condescending comments on the Gujarat riots from McCain and Obama. The only appropriate, acceptable response from any American politician asked about the riots can be "That is an internal issue of India which has already been ruled on by the Indian judiciary. I have no further comments." Instead we get utter nonsense about how they are so concerned... I would like to really see a stronger response.
CRamS
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Re: India-US Strategic News and Discussion

Post by CRamS »

2) The establishment heavily relies on the advise and expertise of the past-colonial masters to set the narrative for the Indian subcontinent and is neither benign nor sympathetic. There are many willing collaborators to advance that narrative spanning across the continents. Hint: please see svinayak's post referring who has stake and vested interests in funding such portrayal.
Mark Tully makes excellent points related to the above
sanjaykumar
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Re: India-US Strategic News and Discussion

Post by sanjaykumar »

I think Mr Tully is exaggerating the influence of NRIs. I just drove through the Sikh part of this town. Traditionally dressed (for a Panjab village) obese women and men with their unturbanned thick hair let down and merging into their three foot long beards.

The locals don't take these people seriously but the Indian government does.
CRamS
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Re: India-US Strategic News and Discussion

Post by CRamS »

Do the locals take anyone seriously other thier own? Nothing wrong with that, its called pride and ultra nationalism that we SDREs woefully lack.

But these overseen Khalistanis, these oversees "moderate Muslims" are used by US ti embarrass India. As an example, how many locales, how many Joe six packs can tell you who Ahmad Chalabi is? Yet, he was so influential in drawing US into a massive war of choice. So don't underestimate the power of NRI Uncle Toms and RNIs who hate India, they are ultra "useful idiots" as a lever in Uncle's hands to hit India.
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Re: India-US Strategic News and Discussion

Post by Paul »

Christine Fair ‏@CChristineFair 25m
How can you not love India? Dil Dil Bharat! And NO ISI thugs lurking about.
CFair's comment causing heartburn amongst Pakis in twitter! She is in Mumbai per her tweets.
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Re: India-US Strategic News and Discussion

Post by anmol »

India's rape epidemic: Will the US apply pressure for change to its Asian ally?
by Barnini Chakraborty, foxnews.com
July 6th 2014

WASHINGTON – When the news of a young Indian woman brutally beaten and gang-raped on a moving bus in New Delhi went viral, vows to change the system and strip the stigma attached to victims came quickly.

Politicians across the country, responding to public pressure and global outrage in the wake of the 2012 attack on the 23-year-old female student and her male friend, promised they would modernize outdated policies on women and violence.

Collectively, it looked like the country was moving toward change and working hard to repair its global image. And for a while, it seemed to work.

But in late May, the bodies of two teenage girls were found hanging limply from a mango tree in their village in Uttar Pradesh. The girls, 14 and 15 years old, had been gang-raped. A week later, another case surfaced. Like the others, the girl had been raped and asphyxiated. She was found dead, hanging from a tree.

As the grisly cases start to emerge again, many are hoping the United States and others will apply pressure to their Asian ally to renew the fight against what is by any standard an epidemic of rape.

But it won’t be easy.

In recent years, U.S. officials have faced significant obstacles with India, ranging from disagreements over economic conditions which include grudges over limits on temporary work visas to polarizing political figures like the country’s new Prime Minister Narendra Modi.

Some say applying more pressure, even on an issue like rape, could strain the fragile U.S.-India relationship even more.

Others, like Shamila Chaudhary, a senior South Asia fellow at the New America Foundation, see it differently.

Chaudhary told FoxNews.com the U.S. government now has a chance to re-frame its relationship with India into one that would be beneficial to both countries and one that draws more attention to the epidemic ripping through the country.

The number of rapes reported in India from 1953 to 2011 has shot up 873 percent, according to statistics from the National Crime Records Bureau. In 2011, 24,206 rape cases were reported in India. (This increase could reflect, in part, a greater willingness by victims to come forward.)

Of those, 6,227 were in northern India, covering New Delhi where the bus rape took place.

Ruth Manorama, president of the National Alliance for Women, recently told The Wall Street Journal, “It is not a north India phenomena, it is an all India phenomena.”

A victim’s rights advocate based in the northern part of the country, who wished to remain anonymous, echoed the sentiment and told FoxNews.com that “the problem is not going away.”

She added that the data from the National Crime Records Bureau carries the caveat that the actual number of rapes still is much greater than the number being reported. Victims have long stayed silent in the face of societal pressures as well as reluctance by authorities to register reports of abuse.

“This type of terrible sexual violence, though horrific, is not unique to India,” U.S. State Department spokeswoman Jen Psaki told FoxNews.com. “We continue to urge improved protections and rights for women and girls and accountability for perpetrators of such violence in countries around the world, including India."

The State Department has, broadly, been speaking out more on the issue of sexual violence. In June, Secretary of State John Kerry vowed to “banish sexual violence to the dark ages and the history books.”

“We will not tolerate rape as a tactic of war and intimidation,” Kerry said during his keynote address at the Global Summit to End Sexual Violence in Conflict.

The four-day meeting – the first of its kind – was held in London last month. The U.S. was among 155 countries there that signed a declaration of commitment to end sexual violence in developing countries and regions.

From a political standpoint, how America responds to the rape crisis in India could have a ripple effect on ties with the country, which has been a key ally for the U.S. in the region.

The U.S. relationship with India has hit a few rough patches lately.

This year’s elections put the Bharatiya Janata Party (BJP) in power – a party that typically advocates conservative social policies, free market capitalistic principles and foreign policy driven by a nationalist agenda.

“It is in the national interest of both India and the U.S. to move beyond the current plateau in relations and build a durable and strategic partnership,” said Lisa Curtis, a senior research fellow at The Heritage Foundation.

Modi has been a controversial figure in Indian politics. His critics claim he did little to stop Hindu-Muslim riots in the state of Gujarat, where violence in 2002 led to the deaths of more than 1,000 people. For a time, the U.S. denied Modi a visa to enter the country – something that was reversed following the recent election.

But how the U.S. handles relations during Modi’s time in office has yet to be seen. The India-U.S. relationship has been tested and strained during the past several years, with one of the hardest hits coming last December when the U.S. arrested Indian diplomat Devyani Khobragade on charges she lied about how much she paid her housekeeper as well as allegations of mistreatment.

Experts like Curtis say the U.S. must now reframe its relationship with India, striking a balance between tough messages on terrorism and women’s rights, as well as capitalizing on economic opportunities.

Back in Washington, senators sat down last week to discuss how to reduce violence against women and discrimination around the world.

The hearing came as lawmakers tried for the fourth time since 2007 to pass the International Violence Against Women Act, which would make stopping violence against women a diplomatic priority for the U.S.

Sens. Debbie Stabenow, D-Mich., and Barbara Boxer, D-Calif., were among the lawmakers who took up the thorny topic at the Senate Subcommittee on International Operations and Organizations, Human Rights, Democracy, and Global Women’s Issues hearing.

But despite some bipartisan support, the bill has never been voted out of the subcommittee.

“I struggle to understand why the United States has failed to pass the convention, but I understand politics,” Sen. Dick Durbin, D-Ill., said. “We need to acknowledge our responsibility and our leadership on issues.”
newamerica.net/user/406

Shamila Chaudhary

Senior South Asia Fellow, International Security Program
shimch@gmail.com2

Shamila Chaudhary specializes in U.S.-Pakistan relations, Pakistan domestic politics and security policy, and regional issues in South Asia. She is Senior Advisor to Dean Vali Nasr at the School for Advanced International Studies (SAIS) at Johns Hopkins University and is a senior South Asia fellow at the New America Foundation. She worked on Pakistan, Afghanistan and Sri Lanka at the political risk consulting firm Eurasia Group from 2011-2013. She also has twelve years of experience working in the U.S. government, most recently at the White House as Director for Pakistan and Afghanistan on the National Security Council from 2010-2011. Prior to her work at the NSC, she worked on the Department of State’s Policy Planning Staff, where she advised Secretary Clinton and the late Ambassador Richard Holbrooke on Afghanistan and Pakistan. Chaudhary served on the State Department’s Pakistan Desk from 2007-2009 and covered economic, humanitarian response, and development issues on the Indonesia desk from 2004-2007. She worked on democracy and governance issues at the U.S. Agency for International Development from 2000-2004. Chaudhary was a 1999 David L. Boren National Security Education Program Fellow and studied Urdu in Lahore, Pakistan, as part of her fellowship. She earned an M.A. in International Affairs from the American University’s School of International Service and a B.A. in English Literature and Women’s Studies from the University of Toledo. In 2010, she and her husband founded the Chaudhary-Steinitz Honors Program Research Grant at the University of Toledo to promote greater interest and research in Pakistan and South Asian affairs. She is a term member of the Council on Foreign Relations and a member of the World Economic Forum’s Global Agenda Council on Pakistan.
JE Menon
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Re: India-US Strategic News and Discussion

Post by JE Menon »

Christine Fair
‏@CChristineFair
India speaking schedule: The Gateway House and ORF in Mumbai on July 8 and then Vivekananda and ORF in Delhi on July 14. CLAWS on July 15.
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Re: India-US Strategic News and Discussion

Post by Philip »

What an F'in outrage! "India's rape epidemic".Mr.Modi should educate his hosts on the rape pandemic within the US armed forces,where any female warrior is expected to endure rape and enjoy it,the rapes within US prisons and who after all "raped" our lady diplomat DK? Mr.Modi would do well go go to the US with a cattle prod to use on his hosts if the subject is ever brought up!

If this is on the agenda for discussion with him,then by all means cancel the visit ASAP!
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Re: India-US Strategic News and Discussion

Post by Prem »

http://www.nytimes.com/2014/07/06/opini ... .html?_r=0
(Idiotorian Bowled)

India’s Role in the Nuclear Race
India is seeking membership in the Nuclear Suppliers Group, a 48-nation body established 40 years ago to ensure that civilian trade in nuclear materials is not diverted for military purposes, as was done by India itself. Membership would greatly enhance the acceptance of India as a nuclear weapons state and give it a say in how countries trade in nuclear-related exports.
The application, which was discussed at a meeting in Buenos Aires last month, should not be granted until India proves itself willing to take a leading role in halting the spread of the world’s most lethal weapons. One way to do that would be by opening negotiations with Pakistan and China to end the dangerous regional nuclear arms race.India has long sought to carve out a special exception for itself in the nuclear sphere. For many years, the country was barred from nuclear trade by the United States and other major states after it tested its first nuclear weapon in 1974 with materials and equipment acquired from Canada and the United States, ostensibly for peaceful purposes, and tested again in 1998. It has refused to sign the Nuclear Nonproliferation Treaty, which commits all states (except the United States, Britain, France, Russia and China) to forsake nuclear weapons.
President George W. Bush was so eager to use the agreement as the centerpiece of a new India-America relationship that he cut a weak deal. India did not have to limit its nuclear weapons, stop producing bomb-making material or forsake nuclear testing. Even India’s promise that American business would benefit from nuclear technology contracts has not been fulfilled because of an Indian liability law that imposes hefty financial responsibility on contractors if there is an accident.
India already has a partnership arrangement with the suppliers group, and membership would advance its status as a nuclear weapons state, even though it has not signed the nonproliferation treaty. Moreover, since the group operates on consensus, membership would give India a veto over decision making, including any decision involving Pakistan, which is not being considered for membership.
To enhance its membership bid, India recently said it was ratifying a long-promised agreement that lets the International Atomic Energy Agency do more oversight on India’s civilian nuclear program. But the agreement carries fewer obligations than those agreed to by other major states, and there would still be no verification or check on India’s growing military-related nuclear program
.
According to IHS Jane’s, a defense research group, India is expanding a uranium enrichment plant that could support the development of nuclear bombs. That is sure to make Pakistan, which has the world’s fastest growing nuclear arsenal, more anxious than ever. India is believed to have 90-110 nuclear weapons; Pakistan, about 100-120; and China, about 250.India’s new prime minister, Narendra Modi, who plans to visit President Obama at the White House in September, has made economic growth a priority. The Americans are eager to capitalize on that, as are other Western powers, with a focus on winning Indian defense and nuclear energy contracts. If India wants to be part of the nuclear suppliers group, it needs to sign the treaty that prohibits nuclear testing, stop producing fissile material, and begin talks with its rivals on nuclear weapons containment.
krisna
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Re: India-US Strategic News and Discussion

Post by krisna »

Avarachan wrote:<snip>

It's very important to qualify this statement. Yes, India won its independence with much less slaughter to the native population than others (China, African nations, Vietnam, etc.). However, without the contribution of Bose and the Azad Hind Fauj (Indian National Army), I don't think the British would have been defeated.

All tactics are needed. Gandhi defeated the British spiritually; Bose, militarily; Patel, politically.
wrt the bolded part, briturds killed an estimated 1/3 of the then Indian population(~80-100 milion). I read it somewhere maybe likley here only in one of the other threads.
Because of the huge population and the response including resisting the briturds fiercely we survived.
Something to rememebr- wherever europeans went with missionaries- they destroyed and damaged the local cultures immensely.

example- whole populations of americas north and south , australia and africa were wiped out - killed converted and raped brutally by europeans.
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Re: India-US Strategic News and Discussion

Post by Gus »

CRamS wrote: As an example, how many locales, how many Joe six packs can tell you who Ahmad Chalabi is? Yet, he was so influential in drawing US into a massive war of choice. So don't underestimate the power of NRI Uncle Toms and RNIs who hate India, they are ultra "useful idiots" as a lever in Uncle's hands to hit India.
you are contradicting yourselves in those two statements.

either these people are 'useful idiots'. or they are influential to drive massa policy to point of 'drawing into a war of choice'.

they can't be both.
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Re: India-US Strategic News and Discussion

Post by CRamS »

GusJi,

Not to nit pick, but please understand the context. They are useful idiots from massa's PoV but influential from India's PoV. Recall the useful idiots in US who prevented Modi from addressing Wharton. Now were the same profs urged Wharton to deny Dick Cheney or Bush to speak, you think they would be taken seriously? Likewise that Paki American Shamila urging US to talk to India about rape. Like Indian govt is responsible. Will she be taken seriously if she talks about rape in US army and elsewhere? You get the drift.
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Re: India-US Strategic News and Discussion

Post by SanjayC »

anmol wrote:
India's rape epidemic: Will the US apply pressure for change to its Asian ally?
by Barnini Chakraborty, foxnews.com

In recent years, U.S. officials have faced significant obstacles with India, ranging from disagreements over economic conditions which include grudges over limits on temporary work visas to polarizing political figures like the country’s new Prime Minister Narendra Modi.

Others, like Shamila Chaudhary, a senior South Asia fellow at the New America Foundation, see it differently.
House negroes at work -- both are Bongs. Marxists from Bong Land are really into anti-India stuff abroad and need to be disciplined. India needs a "Patriot Act" which mandates confiscation of passports and ban on foreign travel for any Indian indulging in anti-India activity abroad or in any work which lower the prestige of India or its elected leaders in the world. Once Modi lands in US, rest assured there will be Indian Christians, Muslims and communists leading marches in New York protesting his visit.
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Re: India-US Strategic News and Discussion

Post by ramana »

Shamila bhen should be told "Physician heal thyself "and start with US Armed forces. If that's too difficult she should take on police forces that subject suspects to forced cavity searches.
KLNMurthy
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Re: India-US Strategic News and Discussion

Post by KLNMurthy »

Philip wrote:What an F'in outrage! "India's rape epidemic".Mr.Modi should educate his hosts on the rape pandemic within the US armed forces,where any female warrior is expected to endure rape and enjoy it,the rapes within US prisons and who after all "raped" our lady diplomat DK? Mr.Modi would do well go go to the US with a cattle prod to use on his hosts if the subject is ever brought up!

If this is on the agenda for discussion with him,then by all means cancel the visit ASAP!
It is pretty moronic of the US as if somehow India has to be talked out of having rape as a national policy.
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Re: India-US Strategic News and Discussion

Post by Philip »

For the man who exterminated Osama Bin Laden,it's pretty rough,to be thought of as worst US pres. ever.What about the Pres. in the past who slept for about 18 hrs? Well,perhaps he let the country get along without him interfering too much!
Though I'm no fan of Hussein,I'm pretty sure that there's a racial element to it all.He's tried v. hard to give ordinary Americans some kind of health security and preferred to retreat from asinine wars then prolong them,unless you count his asinine interfering in Syria and Ukraine,funding and supporting the worst kind of sh*theads.


The Obama years: 'The trailers were great, the movie was horrible'

As a poll of American voters ranks Barack Obama as the worst president of all time, Matt Lewis says his presidency has been a disastrous flop
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldne ... rible.html
By Matt Lewis
12:01PM BST 05 Jul 2014

The trailers were great, but the movie was horrible.

Six years in, that's the general consensus on the Obama presidency. Having ridden a wave of "hope and change" to the White House, President Barack Obama has failed to deliver on his huge box office, err, ballot box expectations.

Just how bad is it? Since it is summer "blockbuster" season, I'll explain thusly: There's a difference between being bad and being most awesomely bad. You and I probably never even hear of the worst movies made. They are forgotten, not mocked. But the truly disastrous flops - the Water Worlds and Ishtars of the world - are the movies that come with huge budgets and huge expectations.

Obama fits the latter category - extremely talented and hyped, but ultimately, unsatisfying. True, I've been making this case for a long time - but now, there's evidence.

A Quinnipiac poll released in America this week has Obama ranked as the "worst president" since World War II.
For various reasons, this may or may not be entirely fair, but considering his competition included Jimmy Carter and George W. Bush, this is problematic. And, what is more, a majority surveyed also said "the nation would be better off" had Mitt Romney won presidency.
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Whereas Jaws was a summer hit in the summer of 1975, Obama has now "jumped the shark" in the sweltering summer of 2014.

So what's to blame? For one thing, all the talk of "hope and change" turned out to be a stark contrast to his practice of stoking bitterness and division in order to win re-election. Call it false advertising or buyer's remorse, but just because someone buys a ticket to a show doesn't mean they're going to applaud. Somewhere along the way, this feel-good romcom turned into a horror show.

To most Americans, the economy continues to feel anemic, and it's hard to imagine the international situation could get much worse - again a case of false advertising.

If Obama were a movie, he'd be Gigli.

Speaking of high expectations, we were led to believe back in 2008 that Obama's charm offensive would woo other nations into loving us again. That obviously didn't work. Russia is back and Iraq is falling apart - two movies I hoped I'd never see again.

But if nobody is buying his act internationally, things aren't much better on the domestic front. Having failed to persuade Congress to pursue his policies, Obama has resorted to unilateral decisions, many of which appear to be outside the scope of his constitutional authority. In a strong rebuke, the Supreme Court recently ruled three of his recess appointments (appointments made while the US Senate was ostensibly on recess) to be unconstitutional. And just last week, House Speaker John Boehner announced he would sue the administration over executive orders. (And is it fair to blame Team USA's World Cup loss to Belgium on him?)

What is more, it's becoming clear that Obama has lost interest in being president and now looks like a prisoner of the job. If the Obama presidency was a movie, even the president's now shuffling for the exit. It's time to roll credits.

And really, who could blame him? It's not just that Obama has failed in the eyes of most Americans, but that he has also failed to advance his own goals. Yes, of course, there is a laundry list of famous broken promises, including the closing of Guantanamo Bay.
But here I'm speaking more broadly.

During President Obama's tenure, income inequality has risen, the black unemployment rate has consistently been twice that of whites, and (despite some tough rhetoric) he has yet to rein in Wall Street. And for a president who talked a lot about civil liberties and privacy, revelations about NSA surveillance, and the use of drones, should have civil libertarians on the left and the right concerned.

The Box Office, err, ballot box was a smashing success, but the reviews are in and the critics and the public - even his fans - are starting to hurl the rotten tomatoes. Citizen Kane this ain't.
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Re: India-US Strategic News and Discussion

Post by schinnas »

SanjayC wrote: Marxists from Bong Land are really into anti-India stuff abroad and need to be disciplined. India needs a "Patriot Act" which mandates confiscation of passports and ban on foreign travel for any Indian indulging in anti-India activity abroad or in any work which lower the prestige of India or its elected leaders in the world.
I have witnessed this personally on several occasions both in India and US. Recent experience was with bong NRI in US, who was making statements about rape, etc., in India without having any idea of how prevalent rapes are in US. In US army, rapes were almost institutionalized. I have interacted with female US soldiers who went through PTSD as a result of institutionalized rape in US Army and turned to Yoga and meditation to heal themselves. Some of the stories were heart wrenching. But one does not hear much about it in the media and no NRI intellect lectures US government on these.

While US has a good chunk of truly liberal minded, spiritual and progressive individuals that one can readily identify with, it also has a very large chunk of population that is ignorant, extremely narrow minded and aggressive and who think of rest of the world as second class citizens who have to learn human values from Christian west. Some section is blatantly racist as well.

These bongs (and most of the highly educated Indian NRIs) have limited and positively biased perspective of US as they interact with Americans only in sanitized environments and move only with western liberals and upper middle class Americans (who are sophisticated in their outward behavior) and live in safe neighborhoods. They (even those who live for decades) have very little exposure to the aam admi in US. These fellows do the most damage due to their ignorance and not because of any ill-will towards India.

The remedy to that is definitely not a blind approach to punish them by making them PnG. It would be counter productive. First step would be to educate them. Forums such as BRF are insufficient for that purpose and will go under the radar. More explicit and focused approaches are needed Ex: Organize a global conference on crimes against women and invite speakers (victims or their spokespersons) from all countries (in proportion to the per-capita crimes against women). Since US has 20x number of rapes per-capita, it will have at least 10x US rape victimes invited to the conference with expense paid invitations for key speakers. We should provide financial incentives for academics including US liberals and NRI liberals to study the problem of rapes and crimes against women in western societies. However, to do this Desi policy makers need to have a higher opinion of ourselves and shed the subliminal inferiority complex w.r.to western nations. I have high expectations from Modi sarkar in this area.

Constructive solutions to problems take more time and need more imaginative approaches. But if there is a will, there is a way. Even regarding the NGO problem, we are only taking the stick. A more productive approach would be to have carrot and stick policy that will enable us to utilize the services of the well intentioned but misguided desi volunteers (not foreign masters) to the NGOs such as Greenpeace work constructively in projects such as Ganga cleansing.

Remember the great Kautilya's advice to use Sam, Dhan, Bhed and Dhanda only as the fourth option. Too much use of Stick it will boomerang and also does not get the necessary bang for the buck. Nuanced, skillful approach that also uses the stick, but not exclusively is critical. This aspect cannot be over-emphasized. Despite the overuse of stick and even unncessary wars, US has mastered the art of carrot and stick policy over the years.
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Re: India-US Strategic News and Discussion

Post by schinnas »

Philip wrote:For the man who exterminated Osama Bin Laden,it's pretty rough,to be thought of as worst US pres. ever.What about the Pres. in the past who slept for about 18 hrs? Well,perhaps he let the country get along without him interfering too much!
Though I'm no fan of Hussein,I'm pretty sure that there's a racial element to it all.He's tried v. hard to give ordinary Americans some kind of health security and preferred to retreat from asinine wars then prolong them,unless you count his asinine interfering in Syria and Ukraine,funding and supporting the worst kind of sh*theads.
Philip-ji,
It is true that despite his hard work and good intentions, Obama has failed as a President in several domestic areas primarily due to lack of experience. He made several rookie mistakes such as setting a public timeline on withdrawal from Af-Pak and publicly ruling out even tactical nukes against Talibs. This emboldened Pakis and Talibs and gave them ample time to plan for US defeat and to retake Afghanistan after US hasty withdrawal. He did the same in Iraq with his hasty withdrawal and the results are for all to see. Except for catching bin Laden and in investing on drone warfare, he committed a series of blunders.

Even in US domestic policy, Obamacare which was to be his legacy is messed up substantially which is primarily responsible for his loss of credibility. If he had really got healthcare right, he would be in a much better position despite his foreign policy failings. Instead of himself micro-managing and trying too hard without much experience to guide his instincts, he should have learned to find the right leader and delegate to them.
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Re: India-US Strategic News and Discussion

Post by schinnas »

JwalaMukhi wrote:
schinnas wrote:It is not clear what drives US media to indulge in articles that dont reflect reality in India but paint India in bad light.
If it is not yet clear by now, it will be almost never clear. The reason for that being never clear is that when one positions sympathetically to the cause of the US media or US media ignorance or the purported ignorance of US establishment, it interferes with clear understanding of what drives the movers, shakers and influencers. Why do not they understand what is well known is conundrum that will bother sympathetic view.
But when clinically observed, it becomes easy as to the collective action of the media, which is nothing but an extension of the US establishment.
The facts are:
1) India is not everyday concern of the average sixpack, except when it is time to for them to feel better in d1ck measuring events. The media amply supplies the ammunition for the sixpacks, to feel the super pawah superiority, by periodically dishing out gutter inspector reports about India. This is important for influencing the sixpacks to see India as how the establishment prefers.

2) The establishment heavily relies on the advise and expertise of the past-colonial masters to set the narrative for the Indian subcontinent and is neither benign nor sympathetic. There are many willing collaborators to advance that narrative spanning across the continents. Hint: please see svinayak's post referring who has stake and vested interests in funding such portrayal.

As a corollary:
3) US is not everyday concern of the average aam admi in India, except when it is time for aam admi to be berated by the Indian media about how backward the aam admi to the super pawah sixpack. It gels well and acts as a self-fulfilling prophecy which the Indian establishment swallowed for a long while.

4) India is extremely diverse, is an understatement, and it provides enough avenues for making mountain out of molehill for the vested interests.

When item 3 is broken, i.e., when aam admi in India gives as much importance as to: why US media is portraying India in bad light to as much as the Somalian media is portraying India, then it doesn't matter. But it will continue to gnaw the heck out of elite men in India or elsewhere, why US is not being friendly, or how US sixpack needs to be educated to like/love India. That is a fool's errand and not the job of India/ns.
[Note to self to not post in haste]. What I meant to say was that it's not clear why US media is hell bent on discrediting India reg Muslim rights without much facts on the ground while ignoring China when there is ample evidence to beat China with it. And US media with government encouragement has in the past used multiple human rights sticks to beat China. So I was trying to understand the dynamics in that specific scenario.

That said, I do not agree with the Ostrich policy that we don't need to give two hoots about what the world thinks about us and it has no impact on our live. It IS proving to be expensive for India. We are already losing substantial amount in tourism as there has been a steep decline in female tourists to US ever since the worldwide media coverage on rape has started. Even those that come on business visa don't venture outside, etc.

It is beginning to impact even our business related investments. I know of cases where investments in IT and services have gone to either Eastern Europe or Vietnam / Phillipines because US business leaders who would need to set up these operations (and in some case would need to work as expats in the country of operation) preferred countries other than India even when India had mild cost / skilled resource advantage. This is first and second hand information. I have tried to bring in some key specialized talent to work in India from US but failed as their families thought it was not safe to live in India. Perception is reality in the world and the sooner we learn to deal with it, it is better. Ostrich approach might have been acceptable when we had a closed agrarian economy. Not anymore.

I would think there are better ways than using army of 50 cent posters to counter propaganda. It will need sustained and multi-pronged approach. It is a subject for a whole new and long post. Probably better for some media expert to comment as I am not an expert in that area.
arun
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Re: India-US Strategic News and Discussion

Post by arun »

SanjayC wrote:Pentagon notifies Harpoon missile sale to India
http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/indi ... 689219.cms
Looks like India is once again being gypped by the US.

The US is supplying 65 Tomahawk Cruise Missiles to the UK at USD 140 Million. Deal was notified on the same day as India’s Harpoon deal.

Strange. Long ranged nuclear capable submarine launched sub-sonic cruise missile with a land attack capability package for UK is working out to a whole lot cheaper than India’s Harpoon deal which involves purchase of a lot fewer non-nuclear capable medium ranged sub-sonic submarine launched with some land attack / littoral capability Harpoon Missiles.:

United Kingdom – Tomahawk Block IV Torpedo Launched Land-Attack Missiles

India – UGM-84L Harpoon Missiles

Earlier Harpoon missile sale to India (For P8I / Jaguar) had similar issue of price gouging by US. Then it was reported that Harpoon missiles sold to India were nearly triple the price of those sold to Pakistan:

Harpoons: India to pay US almost three times more than Pak
Philip
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Re: India-US Strategic News and Discussion

Post by Philip »

This is scandalous! 3 times the price that the Pakis pay.It just shows the US's utter hypocrisy and US apologists touting their milware,should realise that it is in reality "malware" deals for us! The C-17 deal at billions of $$$ was another scandal,keeping Boeing's production line going ,snake-oil for a willing IAF tx to quisling MMS.It was never a high priority item unlike the MMRCA deal.The money spent on the transports could've instead been used to buy the Rafale.We're now beggars with holes in our pockets. I hope that some patriotic MP brings up the issue in the House.
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Re: India-US Strategic News and Discussion

Post by Aditya_V »

I think this seetles the F-35 debate, we would probably have to pay USD 400-500 Mil per plane to acquire an F-35. We can't afford it.
Madhusudhan
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Re: India-US Strategic News and Discussion

Post by Madhusudhan »

Do we really need these missiles at 3x the price? Are there not alternate suppliers? I'm not an expert on these missiles, specific usages, or if alternates can serve the purpose for the military, but just curious. Seems like a criminal waste of taxpayer resources unless we are missing some other fine print in what is included.
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Re: India-US Strategic News and Discussion

Post by Dipanker »

CRamS wrote:Do the locals take anyone seriously other thier own? Nothing wrong with that, its called pride and ultra nationalism that we SDREs woefully lack.

But these overseen Khalistanis, these oversees "moderate Muslims" are used by US ti embarrass India. As an example, how many locales, how many Joe six packs can tell you who Ahmad Chalabi is? Yet, he was so influential in drawing US into a massive war of choice. So don't underestimate the power of NRI Uncle Toms and RNIs who hate India, they are ultra "useful idiots" as a lever in Uncle's hands to hit India.
You are giving too much credit to Ahmad Chalabi. He was a paid CIA stooge used by US for its purpose and then discarded like trash. US was going to invade Iraq irrespective of what Ahmed Chalabi had to say. Chalabi was a very small and insignificant pawn.
UlanBatori
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Re: India-US Strategic News and Discussion

Post by UlanBatori »

So was Mir Jaffer. I don't think they put his effigy up in Mme Tussaud's wax museum either. But he did lots of damage... (Kanu Sanyal, Jyoti Basu, Bengal famine, partition, Angana Chatterji, Amartya Sen, Arundhati Roy..)
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Re: India-US Strategic News and Discussion

Post by JwalaMukhi »

schinnas wrote: That said, I do not agree with the Ostrich policy that we don't need to give two hoots about what the world thinks about us and it has no impact on our live. It IS proving to be expensive for India. We are already losing substantial amount in tourism as there has been a steep decline in female tourists to US ever since the worldwide media coverage on rape has started. Even those that come on business visa don't venture outside, etc.
Well,I guess that's a problem for the US establishment to solve. Obviously, Indian visitors to US are hopefully more knowledgeable about the ground conditions in US and take precautionary measures as to not venture into Southside of Chicago to participate in celebrations of July 4th, where no less than 14 people got killed in the bonhomie.
Well, at the same time Indian visitors are lot more aware that just because southside of chicago has extra special hospitality to the visitors, it is not a reflection of the entire US. They deftly make adjustments to make sure to not paint the whole of US as cauldron of rape, mayhem and murder even though it is 20 times or more dangerous than in desh. Because they are generally intelligent enough to read through the press, and not miss on what are the better parts of US.

OTOH if you meant other way round, if US visitors to India are swayed by the press reports and make dull headed decisions to stay inside a bullet proof chamber, because they have to suspend common sense and rely on presswallahs, it is for them work on common sense.
It is beginning to impact even our business related investments. I know of cases where investments in IT and services have gone to either Eastern Europe or Vietnam / Phillipines because US business leaders who would need to set up these operations (and in some case would need to work as expats in the country of operation) preferred countries other than India even when India had mild cost / skilled resource advantage. This is first and second hand information. I have tried to bring in some key specialized talent to work in India from US but failed as their families thought it was not safe to live in India. Perception is reality in the world and the sooner we learn to deal with it, it is better. Ostrich approach might have been acceptable when we had a closed agrarian economy. Not anymore.

Yes lot of people in US perceive earth was created in 7 days some 6000 years back. That perception cannot be the basis to open our minds and entertain such rubbish. Talking about Ostrich approach is best suited not for India, which has a continuously welcomed all good/noble thoughts to come from everywhere. Just because something is being perceived, it does not behoove to open one's mind so any and every one can throw rubbish and nonsense into it.

US does lot of business with backward restrictive countries, where they do not have qualms to adopting hijab to conduct business and live in those communities. It will take a little while for people from US to get used do business in open country like India, where there is plenty of freedom. Having geared towards working closely with dictatorships, communist nations, it will be a learning curve for the people to do business in open democracy like India. The misgivings that one has is a problem of ones own making. They are welcome to stick with it and conduct business where it is most suitable.

It does look like there is lot of dhoti shivering about the weaknesses of an open democractic country, India, that is Bharath, by some. If one only advocates working on the weaknesses, there will be no time to play to its strength. There is business to be done and conducted in fair manner. It is very problematic for the people who come to bring civilization to the natives, that have adequately damaged businesses to flourish normally. The civilizing patronising brigade from US has damaged the opportunities for US business section. As stated it is a problem of one's own making (US) and the solution to that squarely lies with them. India can only help them in the process, but it can't increase the common sense amongst people where it matters.
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