Narendra Modi vs the Dynasty: Contrasting Ideas of India

JohnTitor · Post by **JohnTitor** » 16 Jul 2014 12:08

^^ This is the problem. People are viewing pujaris as "jobs". They are not a 'job' as such but rather out of love for the lord. What society has to do is pay these pujaris for acting as a 'facilitator' to obtain the lords grace. Ofcourse this is the ideal model. Ignorance/greed/arrogance together with indians' love for secularism has made this a "job" with reservations which makes the temple an "office" instead of the lords home as it should be. This deterioration will also result in improper worship and incorrect beliefs and superstitions all of which lead to the downfall of our culture. There was a reason that brahmins were the pujaris, but ignorance and arrogance of brahmins/caste system has created a situation wherein a role that requires a certain mental attitude is given to people based on reservations.

chetak · Post by **chetak** » 16 Jul 2014 12:24

Shonu wrote:^^ This is the problem. People are viewing pujaris as "jobs". They are not a 'job' as such but rather out of love for the lord. What society has to do is pay these pujaris for acting as a 'facilitator' to obtain the lords grace. Ofcourse this is the ideal model. Ignorance/greed/arrogance together with indians' love for secularism has made this a "job" with reservations which makes the temple an "office" instead of the lords home as it should be. This deterioration will also result in improper worship and incorrect beliefs and superstitions all of which lead to the downfall of our culture. There was a reason that brahmins were the pujaris, but ignorance and arrogance of brahmins/caste system has created a situation wherein a role that requires a certain mental attitude is given to people based on reservations.

I have seen "pujaris" cut short rituals when the expected payment does not suit their fancy. They charge different rates depending on how people are dressed. They turn abusive when queried. How do youngsters in an unfamiliar town handle such a predicament??

Respect cuts and flows both ways. Better to put up a board with available services, rates and times so that all is above board.

prahaar · Post by **prahaar** » 16 Jul 2014 12:35

Probably going OT, but even for certain special functionaries (like Pujari), if they are made to "earn their livelihood", are bound to become "professional", as in calibrate their level of service with the payment model. This is not an aadhunik phenomenon. Guru Drona, puts dharma at the feet of his employer. A certain amount of prestige associated with selfless service can be a sufficient compensation for some, for others it is not sufficient.

chetak · Post by **chetak** » 16 Jul 2014 12:47

prahaar wrote:Probably going OT, but even for certain special functionaries (like Pujari), if they are made to "earn their livelihood", are bound to become "professional", as in calibrate their level of service with the payment model. This is not an aadhunik phenomenon. Guru Drona, puts dharma at the feet of his employer. A certain amount of prestige associated with selfless service can be a sufficient compensation for some, for others it is not sufficient.

I would not like anyone to calibrate their level of service with the payment model when I buy tooth paste/boot polish or visit the doctor. If these things are to be reduced to "services" by the pujaris, then one has every right to know in advance what the terms are.

For certain rituals, the SHQ is trained and she always does the pujas free of cost if anyone requires it locally. NOTHING is expected for this, including transportation costs.

Interestingly, the requests are more from the lower strata of society leading one to some interesting conclusions about such "services" (and the associated payment model

) being provided by local pujaris.

Sachin · Post by **Sachin** » 16 Jul 2014 14:56

Shonu wrote:This is the problem. People are viewing pujaris as "jobs". They are not a 'job' as such but rather out of love for the lord. What society has to do is pay these pujaris for acting as a 'facilitator' to obtain the lords grace.

Agree. But the priests themselves says they have to survive and at least make a decent living. In Kerala priests found it tough to find brides (even from their own community). Low income was stated as one reason, lack of professional prestige was another, nature of the job was yet another one. It was once considered that any body who worked as the priest was a dumbo, not even capable of doing manual work. So low was their standing. But now the trend seems to be slightly getting reversed. The income has increased, priests themselves say they have more "job security" than say IT-wallahs

. Professional prestige, work-life balance etc. may get sorted out in due course as well.

For the maturity level you suggest; i.e priests acting as a facilitator we may have to then encourage old (or retired from jobs) Brahmins etc. to take up these tasks. At that age perhaps their greed and ego would have all gone. They would have completed their material responsibilities, and may have become more religious themselves. Perhaps they may have the mind set to serve the lord and act as the facilitator.

chetak wrote:Better to put up a board with available services, rates and times so that all is above board.

. At least in Kerala we are just a step short of placing a board. The rates, perks etc. are now pretty much known to the end 'consumers'. Even deputy-priests (or the constabulary levels with a head priest in major poojas) get around Rs.700 to Rs.1000 per pooja. The seniors make much more. Plus many of these folks have also formed groups and start some other business activity (hotels for example), and farming etc. The priests themselves say that now people in general have money, and that would lead to tensions, and to cure that they would come to us

. Why do you think even card-carrying commie "seculars" now discreetly going back to do the poojas? It is all money. Commie priests now know that true Shankara has more powers than Elamkulam Mana Shankara

.

JohnTitor · Post by **JohnTitor** » 16 Jul 2014 22:22

chetak wrote:I have seen "pujaris" cut short rituals when the expected payment does not suit their fancy. They charge different rates depending on how people are dressed. They turn abusive when queried. How do youngsters in an unfamiliar town handle such a predicament??

Respect cuts and flows both ways. Better to put up a board with available services, rates and times so that all is above board.

Not sure what part of my post suggested that pujaris are god sent individuals? As I said, what I stated was the ideal - what I would like to think the vedic times were. So yes, pujaris have become businessmen in their own way these days, so have astrologers, ayurvedic doctors and other vedic professions (all these jobs are supposed to provide a free service and accept what the recipients of these services give as a "reward"). But how many astrologers have you seen that provide free readings to benefit individuals? Hence your post is moot as it argues about something that I never brought up.

Sachin wrote: Agree. But the priests themselves says they have to survive and at least make a decent living. In Kerala priests found it tough to find brides (even from their own community). Low income was stated as one reason, lack of professional prestige was another, nature of the job was yet another one. It was once considered that any body who worked as the priest was a dumbo, not even capable of doing manual work. So low was their standing. But now the trend seems to be slightly getting reversed. The income has increased, priests themselves say they have more "job security" than say IT-wallahs . Professional prestige, work-life balance etc. may get sorted out in due course as well.

For the maturity level you suggest; i.e priests acting as a facilitator we may have to then encourage old (or retired from jobs) Brahmins etc. to take up these tasks. At that age perhaps their greed and ego would have all gone. They would have completed their material responsibilities, and may have become more religious themselves. Perhaps they may have the mind set to serve the lord and act as the facilitator.

Absolutely. I don't blame priests themselves for what they have become. Ofcourse they need to earn enough to feed themselves and their families. It is just society that has depreciated - thats all that I was pointing out.

chaanakya · Post by **chaanakya** » 16 Jul 2014 23:29

Please spare this dhaaga the discussion on Puja and Pujaris. Anyone born hindus and not deracinated would know that you need them right from birth till death and afterwards for performing rituals unless of course you know all of them . Pretty difficult I say . If India remains predominantly Hindu then they would not find themselves out of jobs. You need to be considerate as well to pay them decently afterall it is their work as well.

Gus · Post by **Gus** » 17 Jul 2014 02:10

not body language -

but is he wearing the vest? does not look like it.

Rudradev · Post by **Rudradev** » 17 Jul 2014 02:18

According to this article (or is it a farticle?) in the DDM, Modi comes across as much more enthusiastic about bilateral relations, while Putin comes across as lukewarm at best.

Of course this assumes that the quotes reproduced have not been selected to convey just that impression.

http://zeenews.india.com/news/nation/pm ... 47781.html

Key: Indian gush Russian meh

On the sidelines of the BRICS summit here, Modi conveyed his sincere appreciation and admiration for Putin’s decisive leadership in deepening and expanding the India-Russia special and privileged strategic partnership.

The Prime Minister further expressed deep appreciation for Russia’s friendship and unstinting bilateral and international support for India’s economic development and security since the early days of India’s independence.

Modi also reaffirmed that relations with Russia will continue to enjoy the priority that they always had in India’s foreign policy.

Modi, who had also met Putin in 2001 in Moscow, remarked, "Even a child in India, if asked to say who is India's best friend, will reply it is Russia because Russia has been with India in times of crisis."

The PM added that he looked forward to working with the Russian President to further deepen and broad-base the strategic partnership including in the areas of defence, nuclear energy, space, energy, trade and investment, people-to-people contacts and addressing regional and global challenges.

The two leaders looked forward to their Annual Summit in Delhi in December 2014 as an opportunity to outline a bold vision and roadmap for their relationship in the years ahead.

During his 40-minute meet, the Prime Minister invited President Vladimir Putin to visit Kudankulam atomic power project during his trip.

Putin responded saying "it is a good idea".

Putin congratulated Modi on his great victory in the recent elections.

The Prime Minister said there was a need to look at a liberal visa regime, especially students going for studies.

Putin also acknowledged that the case needed to be looked into, MEA spokesman Syed Akbaruddin said.

Modi fondly recalled his visit to Russia's Astrakan region in his early days as Chief Minister of Gujarat which has ties with that region. Talking about that visit, he said he felt as if he was in India.

Putin said Russia places its relations with India high enough in the strategic framework.

Nuclear power project has been a symbol of India-Russia relations.

Modi appreciated Putin's speech at the BRICS summit, saying it was clear on issues like reforms of the UN security council and international financial organisations.

After holding talks with Putin here, the PM left for Brasilia to participate in the sixth BRICS Summit with South American countries.

member_22539 · Post by **member_22539** » 17 Jul 2014 05:43

^Just some presstitute putting his/her spin on what was said and muddying the waters by reproducing it in his own words. There is no need to be swayed either way by what these presstitutes say. All that matters is what happens behind doors and frankly that is where all the important stuff will always remain.

It is about time we go by actions rather than just words.

Hari Seldon · Post by **Hari Seldon** » 17 Jul 2014 08:01

^^Agreed. DDM going into crusade mode again, clearly.

Good I say. More brickbats they throw on NM, more he uses their hate for rising to ever greater successes, the record shows. Seems like DDM is being used inadvertently by NM again. Only.

Arjun · Post by **Arjun** » 17 Jul 2014 08:07

A month of Modi dispels 5 years of economic gloom

Hari Seldon · Post by **Hari Seldon** » 17 Jul 2014 08:09

^^ I told ya so moment, only.

member_28025 · Post by **member_28025** » 17 Jul 2014 16:42

BRICS: PM Modi turns in a star performance on global stage

Can't help myself from posting this article in full. Not even ABV could have done better.

His handshakes have been found to be firm, his outfits including an unusual scarf/ stole/ angavastram have been widely noticed and his idea of a BRICS university made it to the final Fortaleza Declaration, the historical document marking the setting up of the New Development Bank, the coinage itself borrowed incidentally from Modi's bank of ideas too.

PTI
The road to BRICS was a little rocky. There were a series of organisation and scheduling gaffes by the team of bureaucrats that now forms Team Modi, including a missed dinner date with German Chancellor Angela Merkel who was away in Brazil watching her national side lift the FIFAWorld Cup when Modi landed in Berlin for a previously publicised meeting. But once he arrived in Brazil, the new Indian Prime Minister clearly left a mark on the world stage with his distinct style and poise.

A report in The Indian Express notes how Modi has seized the opportunity offered by the BRICS summit to make his presence felt outside India.

Not only did the negotiations on the bank formation go as India wanted, including the decision to pick an Indian as its first president and equal shareholding for all the BRICS member nations, but Modi's body language left a lasting impact on negotiators from all the contingents.

"Sources said Modi’s body language was confident. “His handshakes are firm,” said a government official. After his bilateral meeting with Putin, which was immediately followed by the signing of the Fortaleza Declaration, a beaming Modi walked out of the convention centre, seeming satisfied at the outcome of the Summit," the report said.

It added that Modi also seems to have done his homework ahead of every major meeting. Not unlike his election campaign speeches -- when he would often speak in the local language and tweak his pitch to mirror local concerns -- Modi apparently floored his foreign counterparts with his carefully tailored comments at every bilateral meeting.

It was reported earlier that when he met Russian President Vladimir Putin for a hurriedly rescheduled 40-minute meeting on Tuesday -- after Monday's scheduled meeting was deferred -- Modi spoke about his visit to Astrakhan in Russia when he was Gujarat chief minister (Astrakhan and Ahmedabad are 'sister-cities' ).

The Indian Express reports that when he met Xi Jinping too, Modi had armed himself with information on the Chinese president's resume, and career trajectory before before he became China's leader. "Such preparation helps break the ice," an official was quoted as saying. Given that negotiations on the bank were delayed mainly by differences between India and China, an ice-breaker would have been critical during the bilateral meeting.

Modi also used the BRICS summit as an opportunity to raise one of India's biggest concerns on the world stage. Terrorism in any form, including in cyber-space, is against humanity, Modi said, calling for a "zero tolerance" attitude. He also won some brownie points for linking the new hyper-linked world order with the ancient Indian concept of Vasudaiva Kutumbakam.

Back home, the Vaidik-Hafiz Saeed meeting dominated the airwaves, possibly at the expense of some coverage of Modi's moment in the global spotlight. In the immediate aftermath of his election victory, Modi was compared to Thatcher and to Nixon, but when he actually was on the world stage the TV channels were busy elsewhere. In June, he had gone from pariah to fashion icon with his truncated tunic or the Modi kurta according to Time magazine, but his natty style statements at BRICS went mostly unreported.

Nevertheless, whether he got his due back home or not, Modi certainly had no cause to complain in Brazil whose president Dilma Rousseff received Modi with full military honours at the Brazilian presidential palace. She hosted the Indian prime minister for breakfast in Brasilia on on the sidelines of the BRICS summit. A reception with military honours is usually reserved for bilateral visits only, which this was not. PTI called it a "special gesture".

Modi in return praised the president for a well organised summit and then went on to recall that Gujarat, his home state, shared a close relationship with Brazil in terms of economic cooperation. Both leaders recalled the historical and cultural ties between the two countries, despite the distance, including the Gir cows that were brought to Brazil from India, the textiles and the fruits that came from India to Brazil since the 18th and 19th centuries.

When Modi returns tonight, he will have taken a giant step forward in honing his unique foreign policy style, the first inklings of which were revealed when he invited the SAARC leaders for his swearing-in on 26 May, itself an unprecedented step. It's clear that Modi wants to engage with the world aggressively on key global and economic issues. At the BRICS summit, he has proven himself as exactly the right man for that globally high-profile job.

member_28025 · Post by **member_28025** » 17 Jul 2014 17:29

India under Narendra Modi, Raghuram Rajan may be best emerging market turnaround story: Nomura

Gus · Post by **Gus** » 17 Jul 2014 19:01

this whole vaidhik(?) issue is a pathetic thrashing about by congress. as far as scandals go, this is not even close. in fact, the scandal should be - what the heck is mani shankar upto coordinating these things.

ramana · Post by **ramana** » 17 Jul 2014 19:37

So First post article is based on body language that was being disparaged by ususal know it alls.
Folks chill and let is flow. Its all water.
Under the bridge or over it.

Cosmo_R · Post by **Cosmo_R** » 17 Jul 2014 19:37

IndraD wrote:

PM for BRICS, experts in body language can extrapolate more

That's not body language, this is body language:

http://img.washingtonpost.com/rf/image_ ... 837151.jpg

shravanp · Post by **shravanp** » 17 Jul 2014 20:28

Gus wrote:this whole vaidhik(?) issue is a pathetic thrashing about by congress. as far as scandals go, this is not even close. in fact, the scandal should be - what the heck is mani shankar upto coordinating these things.

Well Congress scored a goal with by pre-empting on this one.

BJP leaders should have known the facts before and should've effectively countered Congressis on day-1 itself, by exposing MSA/Khursed's role. If there's any heights of being apologist party, it's BJP.

Arjun · Post by **Arjun** » 17 Jul 2014 21:38

skekatpuray wrote:Well Congress scored a goal with by pre-empting on this one.

Not sure what you mean by 'scored a goal' ? Are you implying that Congress chances of winning MH or Delhi elections has improved ? Or that Congress is now better placed for 2019 elections ??

vishvak · Post by **vishvak** » 17 Jul 2014 22:06

I hope there are ways to correct such perceptions, as also rookie mistakes that a new government may make (ala Bangla visa issue). But considering that the government is serious on many issues, this should be an available option i.e. to correct rookie mistakes.

member_20292 · Post by **member_20292** » 17 Jul 2014 22:11

Lets start a new discussion. this one has 1000 pages now.

kvjayan · Post by **kvjayan** » 17 Jul 2014 22:52

Arjun wrote:A month of Modi dispels 5 years of economic gloom

This is a big turnaround for this rag (Economic Times). It used to lead the anti-Modi/anti-BJP brigade in the most virulent way possible.

Vayutuvan · Post by **Vayutuvan** » 18 Jul 2014 03:15

rebuttal to Oprah Winfrey moved to http://forums.bharat-rakshak.com/viewto ... 3#p1689103

Hari Seldon · Post by **Hari Seldon** » 18 Jul 2014 07:21

All hail... Comparative body language!

krisna wrote:

teetar.

The right side image of MMS is ridiculous.

Intially thought fotosopped by overenthusiastic NaMo bhakths but I checked google -- > https://www.hcilondon.in/galleryview.php?category_id=55
The Prime Minister, Dr. Manmohan Singh in a family photo with the BRICS Leaders, at the Fifth BRICS Summit, at Durban, South Africa on March 27, 2013.

Raj · Post by **Raj** » 18 Jul 2014 07:49

Hari Seldon wrote:All hail... Comparative body language!

Scroll down to the bottom to see the correct comparison image.
https://www.hcilondon.in/galleryview.php?category_id=55

Pratyush · Post by **Pratyush** » 18 Jul 2014 10:28

Meanwhile, the opposition in India has scored a huge victory over the NaMo sarkar. By forcing a debate in the parliament. What are in interests of this country in that conflict is beyond my comprehension.

member_22539 · Post by **member_22539** » 18 Jul 2014 11:19

Yep, HUGE victory

kmkraoind · Post by **kmkraoind** » 18 Jul 2014 11:26

Pratyush wrote:Meanwhile, the opposition in India has scored a huge victory over the NaMo sarkar. By forcing a debate in the parliament. What are in interests of this country in that conflict is beyond my comprehension.

Even there is govt's fault here. Govt has complete authority to decide the transactions of house. May be inexperienced minister did not see the mischief of some cunning babu and have okayed it. Its a big lesson for BJP. Moreover, the attitude to VP, Ansari has not helped. The same Ansari did not object govt's scuttling of house during previous Lokpal debate, but he now refused to remove Palestine issue from agenda.

chetak · Post by **chetak** » 18 Jul 2014 11:29

Arun Menon wrote:Yep, HUGE victory

hamid ansari's very strong "secular" leanings and failed ambition of becoming the President is the motivation for his anti national behavior.

ably assisted, as usual, by the ever destructive commies.

just curtail all his foreign and domestic engagements and simply marginalize the blighter

Paul · Post by **Paul** » 18 Jul 2014 13:23

Javedekar will feel the repurcussions in the next reshuffle.

SanjayC · Post by **SanjayC** » 18 Jul 2014 13:26

chetak wrote:
Arun Menon wrote:Yep, HUGE victory
hamid ansari's very strong "secular" leanings and failed ambition of becoming the President is the motivation for his anti national behavior.

ably assisted, as usual, by the ever destructive commies.

just curtail all his foreign and domestic engagements and simply marginalize the blighter

Can these people ever be trusted not to keep their religion above Indian national interests?

member_22539 · Post by **member_22539** » 18 Jul 2014 13:45

Paul wrote:Javedekar will feel the repurcussions in the next reshuffle.

For what?

chetak · Post by **chetak** » 18 Jul 2014 13:51

Arun Menon wrote:
Paul wrote:Javedekar will feel the repurcussions in the next reshuffle.
For what?

Nothing will happen, these are all the actions of inexperienced parliamentarians.They will all adapt fast enough.

Manish_Sharma · Post by **Manish_Sharma** » 18 Jul 2014 14:33

So now AAJ TAK should be under "closely watched" list, as NaMo left for brazil, the main headline they kept showing whole day was "Rajnath No.2 in the Govt....."

https://www.facebook.com/drsubramanians ... =1&theater

Dr. Subramanian Swamy

A very shocking incident took place yesterday when a Malaysian Airlines flight MH17 was shot down over Ukraine. However, the incident gets shrouded in thick conspiracy once we know that Modi's flight from Frankfurt was barely an hour behind the ill fated plane on the exact same route!

Modi's flight had taken off well before the incident and had the Ukrainians delayed their aggressive action, it could've been a different flight and a different story. His flight was rerouted only after MH17 was shot down with a surface to air missile.

It's not a secret that India has many enemies both inside and outside.
The recent BRICS summit, although underplayed by our media, can prove to be a landmark in the international geopolitics by challenging the hegemony of certain countries in the world economy.

The OIC has also been miffed over India's supportive stance over Israel. Naming any particular state will not be prudent over a perceived conspiracy. Why, even the anti-national lobbies inside our nation have strong connections with various hostile forces outside. people who've been left insecure about their future since the advent of BJP govt.

Reasons could be many.. known or lesser known and though Ukraine is not a hostile nation, the possibility of a sabotage against India can't be ruled out - must not be ruled out.

It's time our security agencies took a serious look over these troubled waters and ensure no such incident becomes an excuse of catastrophe for our nation.

Singha · Post by **Singha** » 18 Jul 2014 15:05

well it seems Putin's plane was 25km from the Malay plane at that time and bears the same red and blue markings. it it a 4 engined vip tupolev.

if CT is there, more believeable to think of it as a attempt on his life, followed by pinning blame on the separatists.

member_22539 · Post by **member_22539** » 18 Jul 2014 15:38

^Here you go

Reports that Putin flew similar route as MH17, presidential airport says 'hasn't overflown Ukraine for long time'

http://rt.com/news/173672-malaysia-plane-crash-putin/

Kind of muddies up things more than it resolves.

ramana · Post by **ramana** » 19 Jul 2014 01:49

I had posted immediately in the EE/U thread that its a covert op that went wrong.

BRICS leaders flight route.

I wouldnt put it past Ukraine's advisers.

Could be Queendom as they have long and hidden reach.

Rahul Mehta · Post by **Rahul Mehta** » 19 Jul 2014 07:32

from Modi sarkar policy thread

Rahul Mehta: 21 new varities of genetically modified crops approved for field trials by Narendra Modi government

http://www.dnaindia.com/india/report-21 ... nt-2002487

Now all GM are NOT bad. But IMO all BT are bad. I dont know which of the above 21 are BT and non-BT. Lets wait for more details.

disha : Sir., do not go with "IMO" on BT Cotton. It is either a fact or not. The science is very well established. BT is *not* bad., that is the plant produces the toxin for Ball Weevil because it has the genes of the BT bacteria spliced into it. Now when you plant BT cotton, there is a small area that you reserve without planting BT Cotton., because in that area Ball Weevils will thrive and do not develop resistance against BT. Inspite of sacrificing that area, the yield is higher and the costs lower since you are not using broad spectrum insecticides (almost no insecticides!!!). This has the advantage of then going organic, since all one needs is fertilizer. .....

A big chunk of "science" isnt science but hocus pocus that will put astrologers and biggest scam artists to shame. Anyway, whether BT is good or bad is OST. What is IST is --- many anti-BT and anti-GMO activists from may-2009 to now were hoping that NaMo will finish GMO\BT . These activists considered GMO\BT as nonsense and these activists rallied behind NaMo hoping that NaMo is the solution to GMO\BT. The paidmedia had created an illusion that NaMo is anti-BT, anti-GMO etc. And anti-BT, anti-GMO people fell for the illusion created by the paidmedia. I have been anti-BT , but not much anti-GMO. But I have been anti-NaMo on this issue, as NaMo never cleared his stand on GMO\BT issues.

If NaMo was pro-GMO, pro-BT, then fine --- it is his vision and his choice, But then least he could have done is cleared his stand in 2010 itself. That way, anti-GMO people would NOT have wasted their time in shouting HHN-GGN and *-ABMS slogans and instead worked on REAL political alternatives to remove GMO. Now if NaMo becomes pro-BT and pro-GMO, then anti-GMO activists will feel betrayed and many will completely become apolitical. And that does huge damage to nation, as it decreases number of people taking interest in bringing political change. All in all, if NaMo is pro-GMO and pro-BT, then he has done a huge damage to India by not telling this fact in 2010.

========

Are meat manufacturers and meat exporters still getting subsidies? Can anyone cite any specific line in budget which can prove/disprove? NaMo had promised end to pink revolution within 72 hours after he become PM. And many more hours have passed. Any info on that will be appreciated.

Mahendra · Post by **Mahendra** » 19 Jul 2014 12:52

Arey bhai, ek thread me post karo na