India-US Strategic News and Discussion

CRamS · Post by **CRamS** » 20 Jul 2014 01:13

Guys, in the above testimony, how come India does not raise the issue of US military support to US's TSP munna? Why does Modi not demand that TSP terror against India also be part of the so called "GWOT". I mean there is mention of China but no TSP other than some opening dialogue BS.

Rudradev · Post by **Rudradev** » 20 Jul 2014 03:33

CRamS wrote:Guys, in the above testimony, how come India does not raise the issue of US military support to US's TSP munna? Why does Modi not demand that TSP terror against India also be part of the so called "GWOT". I mean there is mention of China but no TSP other than some opening dialogue BS.

"How come INDIA does not"? The testimony is by Frank Wisner. Does he speak for India?

CRamS · Post by **CRamS** » 20 Jul 2014 04:12

RudradevJi wrote: "How come INDIA does not"? The testimony is by Frank Wisner. Does he speak for India?

You got me there. He does not. But I went and re-read, and please see this

He and his colleagues do not seek American mediation nor direct involvement. Indians believe they can find their own way forward with Pakistan and that American involvement will complicate the ability of the two governments to manage their differences. Instead the Indian government looks to us for encouragement and with respect to Pakistan, the Indians expect us to be clear what the steps we will take to nudge Pakistan toward a peaceful relationship with India.

My reading is that Frank Wisner is relaying what Indians are telling him. And from the above, they are not raising the issue of US military aid to TSP munna. Especially the billions since 9/11.

Could you kindly point me to any Indian, especially BJP official in the BJP govt who has raised a hue and cry, as they should, about US military aid to TSP since 9/11. Furthermore, I haven't seen much space devoted in Indian media, not even by nationalists like GP etc, on this topic. Maybe I missed it, but I would like to see more Indian discourse on this important issue, just as we on BR are concerned about.

Vayutuvan · Post by **Vayutuvan** » 20 Jul 2014 04:32

CRamS: Sorry to say that I am able to find several holes in Frank Wisner's testimony. He is neither relaying what Govt. of India wants to be relayed to GOTUS nor interested parties in GOTUS. It is a think tank piece and should be ignored but for the fact that he was/is an "eminent" thinker/excellency. I think the best US amby to India had been Prof. Blackwill. Others were meh. I invite you to generously apply IMHO and all that to the above opinion of mine.

anmol · Post by **anmol** » 20 Jul 2014 04:54

matrimc wrote:CRamS: Sorry to say that I am able to find several holes in Frank Wisner's testimony. He is neither relaying what Govt. of India wants to be relayed to GOTUS nor interested parties in GOTUS. It is a think tank piece and should be ignored but for the fact that he was/is an "eminent" thinker/excellency. I think the best US amby to India had been Prof. Blackwill. Others were meh. I invite you to generously apply IMHO and all that to the above opinion of mine.

But matrimc ji didn't the whole visa saga started under Blackwill ?

Rudradev · Post by **Rudradev** » 20 Jul 2014 05:25

anmol wrote:
matrimc wrote:CRamS: Sorry to say that I am able to find several holes in Frank Wisner's testimony. He is neither relaying what Govt. of India wants to be relayed to GOTUS nor interested parties in GOTUS. It is a think tank piece and should be ignored but for the fact that he was/is an "eminent" thinker/excellency. I think the best US amby to India had been Prof. Blackwill. Others were meh. I invite you to generously apply IMHO and all that to the above opinion of mine.
But matrimc ji didn't the whole visa saga started under Blackwill ?

No- Blackwill's tenure ended prematurely (no reason established) in July 2003. Then after an unexplained interval of nearly 6 months David Mulford came in as Amby in 2004.

Was Blackwill recalled by Christist neocons upset about BJP (and Modi in particular) taking action to curb the EJ brigade's conversion activities? Wheels must have been in motion for the Visa Denial lobbying by mid 2003, under the aegis of EJ political leader Nina Shea. Was Mulford a consensus candidate between the GOTUS EJs & Hamiltonians (pro business lobby in DC)?

CRamS · Post by **CRamS** » 20 Jul 2014 05:37

AnMolJi,

Blackwill did indeed understand India's travials with TSP, but as I and others including SSJi, RudraJi, and others have pointed out, this pummeling of Modi (and by default spitting on Hindus) is in the over all interests of Unkil to show the Ummah, especially the "South Asian" Ummah that despite they and their Bibi pummeling the living crap out of Muslims that they have an issue with, they otherwise consider the Ummah as their useful munnas.

Vayutuvan · Post by **Vayutuvan** » 20 Jul 2014 06:13

CRamS: Who is using who? I think the Ummah is using massa and the latter is clueless. The only way out for both India and massa is to reduce their dependence on oil which is not going to happen in a hurry (at least not in the near future, i.e. a couple of decades). If push comes to a shove former would grind along but the citizens of the latter are going to be in deep doo doo. The premise on which ambassador Wisner has built his case of India and China being competitors is shaky at best. He dose not have case but trying to create a divide between the top two most populous nations of BRICS. What does US want with China irrespective of what India wants in the Asian context?

putnanja · Post by **putnanja** » 20 Jul 2014 07:15

I believe Blackwill had a very problematic relationship with the embassy officers. He was widely disliked by his own embassy, and that was also one of the reasons why he was removed. There might still be articles on the web about it.

Vayutuvan · Post by **Vayutuvan** » 20 Jul 2014 07:47

But then why should India care about his management style? An affirmative answer to whether he was a friend of India is what makes him liked by Indian citizens. I think the answer is affirmative and hence he is a friend of India. So was Ambassador Moynihan (is that the correct spelling?). Chester Bowles - not all that much. YMMV.

What are Ambassador Wisner's accomplishments in India? Not a challenge bbut q request for info.

saip · Post by **saip** » 20 Jul 2014 08:04

matrimc wrote:But then why should India care about his management style? An affirmative answer to whether he was a friend of India is what makes him liked by Indian citizens. I think the answer is affirmative and hence he is a friend of India. So was Ambassador Moynihan (is that the correct spelling?). Chester Bowels - not all that much. YMMV.

What are Ambassador Wisner's accomplishments in India? Not a challenge bbut q request for info.

ramana · Post by **ramana** » 20 Jul 2014 08:10

These testimony by eminent experts is a dog and pony show to give reasons for the US to change policy. We have seen this many times vis a vis India.

The more the number of people who speak in favor of change means decision has been taken and all this is for H&D.

Vayutuvan · Post by **Vayutuvan** » 20 Jul 2014 10:02

ramana garu: thanks for that observation. That clears up my skepticism regarding amby Wisner
---
saip garu: my bad

correcting the spelling.

JE Menon · Post by **JE Menon** » 20 Jul 2014 12:42

CRamS

>>how come India does not raise the issue of US military support to US's TSP munna? Why does Modi not demand that TSP terror against India also be part of the so called "GWOT". I mean there is mention of China but no TSP other than some opening dialogue BS.

India will not do that because it is tantamount to asking the mafia boss to stop supporting his local di(khead boss, I forget the Italian word (capo di capi or some shite like that). Rather, it is better for us to wait until it dawns on the boss that the local di(khead is cutting into his territory and profits. No hurry. We are not going anywhere, and if we are, we are taking everyone else including the mafia boss and his local di(khead and assorted cronies with us.

Prem · Post by **Prem** » 21 Jul 2014 03:33

NewJerking Time: White Man HAs Burden To Carry

In Remote Corners of India, Immunity for Soldiers Who Kill and Rape CiviliansBy GARDINER HARRIS

MAYAI LEIKAI, India — A dozen soldiers burst through the front and back doors of a small home here in the middle of a July night, dragged Thangjam Manorama into a room and began to torture her. Her older brother tried to stop them and was badly beaten. Her mother rose to defend her and was knocked unconscious.After about an hour, Ms. Thangjam was taken out of the house. The next morning, the family found her bullet-ridden body by the side of the road three miles away. Soldiers later claimed that Ms. Thangjam was an insurgent who was shot while she was trying to escape. A medical examiner determined that she had been shot from close range while lying down, that stains on her dress were semen but that multiple gunshots to her vagina made any determination of rape impossible. There was little doubt who was responsible: the soldiers made little effort to hide their faces.Ms. Thangjam’s death led to months of local protests, including one in which a dozen women stripped naked in front of the local military headquarters carrying a red-lettered banner, “Indian Army Rape Us.” The circumstances of her death were so outrageous that even the prime minister at the time, Manmohan Singh, promised redress.But a decade later, no one has been arrested or charged with a crime. Activists, lawyers and ordinary people here say they know exactly why: a colonial-era law in effect in India’s periphery that gives blanket immunity from prosecution in civilian courts to Indian soldiers for all crimes, including rape.
Human rights advocates have for years called for the repeal of the law, known as the Armed Forces Special Powers Act. Christof Heyns, the United Nations special rapporteur on extrajudicial, summary or arbitrary executions, wrote last year in a report to the United Nations Human Rights Council that the powers granted under the law “are in reality broader than that allowable under a state of emergency as the right to life may effectively be suspended.”
Yet it endures. As the world’s largest democracy and home of Mohandas K. Gandhi, a pioneer of nonviolent resistance, India has long been counted among the world’s most progressive nations, with robust anti-poverty programs and efforts to provide special benefits to marginalized communities. The country now has 168 state and federal rights organizations, including the National Human Rights Commission.But a darker reality has always lurked beneath this progressive image, particularly in India’s hard to reach places. In Kashmir, there are thousands of unmarked graves in secret cemeteries created by the army and the police to hide their crimes. Even when civilian officials confirm that innocents were slaughtered, nothing is done.“We have all these great human rights institutions, but still nobody in India gets justice when the state murders one of their family members,” said Henri Tiphagne, chairman of the Asian Forum for Human Rights and Development based in Bangkok. “That’s true all over the country, not just in Kashmir.”Government commissions have repeatedly recommended that the law be repealed, butIndia’s military has stymied all such efforts.“If we don’t have this constitutional protection, would you like us to be dragged to court for small allegations?” Gen. J. J. Singh, the chief of army staff, said in a 2005 news conference.Perhaps because of the limited attention given this remote part of the world, soldiers and police officers do not even bother to hide the evidence when they murder and rape innocents, said Babloo Loitongbam, founder of Human Rights Alert in Imphal..Efforts by victims’ groups as well as the Supreme Court investigation have had an effect, Mr. Loitongbam of Human Rights Alert said. The police and soldiers once killed hundreds each year; this year has seen only a handful of killings. Widows of those killed formed the Extrajudicial Execution Victim Families’ Association Manipur to help women try to get justice. The association has documented 1,528 police killings between 1979 and 2012, a fraction of the killings that occurred in Kashmir during the period but enough to affect most communities in a state of 2.7 million people.

Vayutuvan · Post by **Vayutuvan** » 21 Jul 2014 05:02

JEM: It is capo de supremo (or is it supremo de capo?)

sooraj · Post by **sooraj** » 21 Jul 2014 10:46

Michelle Obama prefers a quick lunch for Modi over state dinner

Rudradev · Post by **Rudradev** » 21 Jul 2014 10:53

sooraj wrote:Michelle Obama prefers a quick lunch for Modi over state dinner

Is this a reference to some news report?

chetak · Post by **chetak** » 21 Jul 2014 10:55

sooraj wrote:Michelle Obama prefers a quick lunch for Modi over state dinner

Wife of the POTUS has her own agenda??

sooraj · Post by **sooraj** » 21 Jul 2014 12:42

Rudradev wrote:
sooraj wrote:Michelle Obama prefers a quick lunch for Modi over state dinner
Is this a reference to some news report?

from rediff

merlin · Post by **merlin** » 21 Jul 2014 12:48

sooraj wrote:

from rediff

Be fun to watch the US twist and turn and squirm to act like "yes this is a state visit, but no there isn't any normal treatment given as we are still not satisfied with Modi the butcher of Gujarat".

Popcorn and beer time.

KrishnaK · Post by **KrishnaK** » 23 Jul 2014 11:40

svinayak wrote: This group is not new. They had plans during the NDA1 where the real motive was to create large anti NDA, anti BJP and anti Hindu movement for eventual revolt and eventual large scale conversion. Some of the EJs during that period even eluded to it.

This group wanted to take adavntage of the goodwill of the majority people and fool them to revolt against NDA/BJP and brng in large scale social movement to revolt and conversion. It was a perfect plan based on the social engineering analysis and events planned before. Lot of Khan people and EJ were expecting a large surge in support and conversion.

Was the netflix move thought of before or after this ?

SanjayC · Post by **SanjayC** » 23 Jul 2014 12:03

Jhujar wrote:NewJerking Time: White Man HAs Burden To Carry

In Remote Corners of India, Immunity for Soldiers Who Kill and Rape CiviliansBy GARDINER HARRIS

This Gardiner Harris dude has a history of consistently negative portrayal of India in his so-called reporting. These gutter inspectors, who hang around in India only to show how bad pagan societies are because they rejected the True God, need to be identified and kicked out. Even Pakistan routinely kicks out these White reporters from the country. Why can't India?

JE Menon · Post by **JE Menon** » 23 Jul 2014 18:13

No idea matrimc, remember it vaguely from the Godfather...

vsunder · Post by **vsunder** » 23 Jul 2014 18:23

Capo di tutti capi, tutti=all like in tutti fruti( all the fruits), Chief of all the chiefs.

Vayutuvan · Post by **Vayutuvan** » 23 Jul 2014 18:31

Yes from godfather. Vito carleone has two capos Clemenza and another guy (Added later: Tessio). The other is taken out for a drive in a car and gets shot because Don comes to know that he was trying to get his own territory w/o telling Don Vito. In the car he realizes that he is going to be executed and requests to be freed from the hook but Clemenza says sorry rules are rules - omerta.

JE Menon · Post by **JE Menon** » 23 Jul 2014 18:39

Yup, and strangles the twat if I remember correctly...

JE Menon · Post by **JE Menon** » 23 Jul 2014 18:43

Speaking of twats, is it just me or does anyone else think Preet Bharara looks like a thinner, pre-balding/transplant version of Nawaz Sharif...

Shreeman · Post by **Shreeman** » 23 Jul 2014 19:15

JE Menon wrote:Speaking of twats, is it just me or does anyone else think Preet Bharara looks like a thinner, pre-balding/transplant version of Nawaz Sharif...

JEM, this is uncalled for. I am offended. As far as I know, badmash never stripped any diplomat. Four witnesses or not. And he would not defend such action.

I mean, sure, badmash, will hire people to do all sorts of things. But to sink this low, impossible. Facial features are a match because (there is a rumor) PB had plastic surgery to look like badmash. No fault of badmash. Its not like he is Apple and can copyright or patent his face. Poor guy.

JE Menon · Post by **JE Menon** » 23 Jul 2014 19:50

>>As far as I know, badmash never stripped any diplomat

Well, the key to that is "as far as I know". While it is true as far as I know as well, rumours have it that he was caught in flagrante delicto while trying to widen the circle of his friend from the Saudi Embassy.

svinayak · Post by **svinayak** » 23 Jul 2014 21:17

KrishnaK wrote:
svinayak wrote: This group is not new. They had plans during the NDA1 where the real motive was to create large anti NDA, anti BJP and anti Hindu movement for eventual revolt and eventual large scale conversion. Some of the EJs during that period even eluded to it.

This group wanted to take adavntage of the goodwill of the majority people and fool them to revolt against NDA/BJP and brng in large scale social movement to revolt and conversion. It was a perfect plan based on the social engineering analysis and events planned before. Lot of Khan people and EJ were expecting a large surge in support and conversion.
Was the netflix move thought of before or after this ?

Whaat! Can you please explain your post?
Dont take it seriously to your heart.

Prem · Post by **Prem** » 24 Jul 2014 05:13

A Farewell to Gandhi
http://www.nysun.com/editorials/a-farewell-to-gandhi/

The rejection Monday by the new government in India of a resolution to condemn Israel’s military attacks in Gaza is a moment to savor. Those of us of a certain age can remember the days when India, spouting rhetoric of “non-aligned” nations, could be counted on to lean to the Soviet Union and noise up all kinds of support for the cause of the Palestinian Arabs. Its founding father, Mahatma Gandhi, once proclaimed that “Palestine belongs to the Arabs in the same sense as England belongs to English and France to the French.”Nowadays it’s singing a different tune. “In a debate that lasted nearly three hours,” the Wall Street Journal reports, “opposition leaders pressed the Indian Parliament to pass a strongly-worded resolution denouncing Israel for what some members described as the ‘disproportionate’ and ‘indiscriminate’ use of ‘brute force’ in Gaza that has resulted in the deaths of hundreds of civilians in recent weeks.” But the foreign minister, Sushma Swaraj, rejected the scheme.She suggested that India “fully supports” the Palestinian cause but, it seems, only up to a point. It intends to maintain its ties with the Jewish state. She recommended the Palestinians take another look at the cease-fire Hamas rejected. The Journal reported that the ghastly line from Gandhi was quoted in the debate. But ties between Israel and India have grown stronger, “particularly,” the Journal noted, “in the trade of military equipment, making Tel Aviv one of the top suppliers of arms to India, alongside Russia and the United States.”
The Journal quoted a leader of the Communist Party of India as saying in the debate that India must use not only its “moral force” to lean on Israel, but also suspend all arms deals “to send a strong message.” It quoted a member of the ruling Bharatiya Janata Party as saying that India instead ought to look to its national interests. Demonstrations are already turning violent in the Muslim area of Kashmir, where at least one person has been killed in protests against Israel. It looks like the government will stand firm.All of which adds up to an important new development for those of us who are rooting for Israel’s success. India’s new prime minister, Narendra Modi, has pursued a pro-Israel course when he was governor of Gujarat, a state that had emerged as an economic success story using the same kind of liberal, free-market principles that Israel has been using of late. The editor of the Sun, writing in Haaretz, called Mr. Modi’s election, “an advent of enormous potential consequence.” It looks like the Gaza war is underlining the point.

Cosmo_R · Post by **Cosmo_R** » 24 Jul 2014 05:23

JE Menon wrote:Speaking of twats, is it just me or does anyone else think Preet Bharara looks like a thinner, pre-balding/transplant version of Nawaz Sharif...

You're using the rare pluperfect subjunctive of "Tweet" I would assume.

Arjun · Post by **Arjun** » 24 Jul 2014 13:14

So in the midst of Muslims being massacred by the hundreds in Gaza and by the ISIS - the US has finally shown why it is a leader of the free world. It has shown tremendous leadership and spine and demanded accountability...........(of the Shiv Sena MP who gave a chapati to a Muslim during Ramzan)

US calls for accountability after an Indian MP’s feeding Chapati to fasting Muslim

US sense of proportion as it battles grave human right provocations the world over is surely a majestic sight to behold.

Nandu · Post by **Nandu** » 24 Jul 2014 13:31

Arjun wrote:So in the midst of Muslims being massacred by the hundreds in Gaza and by the ISIS - the US has finally shown why it is a leader of the free world. It has shown tremendous leadership and spine and demanded accountability...........(of the Shiv Sena MP who gave a chapati to a Muslim during Ramzan)

US calls for accountability after an Indian MP’s feeding Chapati to fasting Muslim

US sense of proportion as it battles grave human right provocations the world over is surely a majestic sight to behold.

Paki paper. Paki report.

Pratyush · Post by **Pratyush** » 24 Jul 2014 16:33

President Obomber, is turning into a joke. He will best be remembered for totally destroying the residual credibility the US enjoyed, when he assumed power.

Post retirement, he can write a book called, how to loose allies and alienate nations.

panduranghari · Post by **panduranghari** » 24 Jul 2014 17:26

Obama The Gay Hustler

Paul · Post by **Paul** » 24 Jul 2014 17:32

Pratyush wrote:President Obomber, is turning into a joke. He will best be remembered for totally destroying the residual credibility the US enjoyed, when he assumed power.

Post retirement, he can write a book called, how to loose allies and alienate nations.

If this benign neglect is beneficial for India's rise, is it not good thing?

UlanBatori · Post by **UlanBatori** » 24 Jul 2014 18:48

You have to admire the Pakis. Read carefully:

She was responding to a question when the incident of MP Rajan Baburao of the Hindu for right party Shiv Sena MP Rajan Baburao Vichare forcefully feeding a Muslim was raised as an issue of human rights and religious freedom at the daily briefing.

The key new Policy Revelations By the Obama Administration are in the following sentence.

"We, of course, would expect any allegation of this kind of assault would be dealt with under Indian law", the spokesperson added.

So iff India had competent RNI media, the headline in The Crimes of India would be

OBAMA ADMINISTRATION RECOGNIZES INDIAN LAW

and

US ASKS PAKISTAN TO OBEY INDIAN LAW

and most of all:

White House implies that Manhattan Prosecutor and State Department are E-Diots

Unfortunately that is too big an iff The (geniuses, Harischandras, Chanakyas) will simply copy the paki report.

chaanakya · Post by **chaanakya** » 24 Jul 2014 20:45

x-posted

Madras HC grants bail to captain of US ship that entered Indian waters with illegal arms

MADURAI: The Madurai bench of the Madras high court on Thursday granted conditional bail to the captain of the US anti-piracy ship MV Seaman Guard Ohio that had allegedly entered the Indian waters with illegal arms.

Granting bail to Captain Dudnik Valentyn, Justice K Kalyanasundaram directed him to stay in Chennai and report at the Mylapore police station on every Monday.

The Indian Coast Guard intercepted the ship off Kanyakumari coast on October 12 last year. A preliminary inquiry by the Coast Guard revealed that the vessel was carrying weapons without any valid documents.

The ship's 35 crew members, including captain and vice-captain, were arrested. Of them, 33 were granted bail on March 26 and the vice-captain was granted bail in May. However, the court had rejected bail to the ship's captain.

On July 10, the Madras high court's principal seat in Chennai quashed criminal cases against all the crew of the ship.