Eastern Europe/Ukraine

Shreeman · Post by **Shreeman** » 05 Aug 2014 17:43

Let me add a really old (at least 20+ years) story here that started with a crash. It has its warts, take from it what you will. I wont respond to comments.

A head on car crash on Indoa's roads, is guaranteed moksha, easier obtained byt substituting a maruti 800 and a roadways bus. It made me cry then. And it left a young widow who was a new mother. The departed was a 20+ year old engineer, many years my junior, working for a state research institution. Ex gratia payments were not available -- random accident. The young lady had family on both sides (own and husband), but finances were a problem. A young widow, with no real education and a babe at arms. The departed young man was really well liked, and had countless well placed "friends".

The idea of a support fund was floated, along with other respite (education for the mother and the baby, support group, other practical steps). Note that immediate needs are met, the body was EVENTUALLY release by the coroner and cremated. It is medium and long term sustainment that was the problem.

I was one of the "friends". At the time nearly thirty years ago, I was poor. Working in a prestigious basement lab for a small pittance. The support fund was indeed collected. My usual "savings" paid for a) phone calls home ($X.yy per minute), b) the annual pilgrimage of two weeks back to India to regain sanity.

It seemed like a small sacrifice to forgo. Some others did that too and more. Some wre not constrained. But the more "established" the individual, the smaller the contribution. I did not collect this money, but was told checks of $10-$25 did arrive. The cost of a plane coach/economy ticket back then was still $1500+, so the child DID get an education fund. I havent met the family since, it took two+ years to have resources to travel and by then contacts were lost. I havent traveled much since either, fate has other plans for my time.

I did write numerous letters complaining of road safety issues to relevant authorities. I created a blog counting road fatalities long before blog was a word or there was any real internet. This was meaningless venting of my grief.

It takes nothing to rant on the internet, hoping strangers will console, in the exact words you want hear now.

This is the ONLY time I have written this to my memory.

Johann · Post by **Johann** » 05 Aug 2014 21:34

Thank you for sharing Shreeman. I appreciate it.

Mort Walker · Post by **Mort Walker** » 06 Aug 2014 02:03

Looks like the folks here are getting what they wanted:
Russia may ban EU from flying over Siberia on Asian routes

The EU airlines are not flying or restricting themselves over Russia now. This will probably hurt the Russians more.

Prem · Post by **Prem** » 06 Aug 2014 06:26

http://www.forbes.com/sites/kenrapoza/2 ... might-end/
How The Ukraine-Russia Crisis Might End
(messy)

The ongoing imbroglio between Russia and Ukraine remains a “he said, she said” propaganda battle with the U.S. gathering evidence of Russian tanks on the Ukrainian border, and Russia saying the whole shebang is about the U.S. shutting Russia out of Europe’s important natural gas market.
How does this all end?Usually, such political fist fights don’t reach the worst case scenario. Iraq did not have weapons of mass destruction. Iran did not build the nuclear bomb it was supposedly two weeks away from building. Jesus has not returned in the Middle East conflict-inspired Apocalypse.
The worst case scenario now is a Russian invasion of eastern Ukraine while the U.S. Congress is on its five week summer recess. The more likely outcome is an extension of the status quo in Ukraine, with the new government of Petro Poroshenko keeping one eye on his country’s weak economy and the other on Russian separatists raising havoc in eastern cities like Donetsk. In that case, more sanctions from the U.S. and Europe will be announced.
What markets are witnessing now is “a classic Cold War stand-off” says Jan Dehn, an economist for the Ashmore Group, a large emerging markets investor based in London. Ukraine is an important country for Russia. Not only is it part of the country’s agricultural bread basket, but it provides Russia with naval access to the Black Sea. Russia fears the very thought of Ukraine going NATO, as former Soviet state Yugoslavia did.Germany’s chancellor Angela Merkel and Russian president Vladimir Putin are reportedly working on a closed-door peace plan that involves securing the border and acceptance of Russia’s March 17 annexation of Crimea, a former Ukrainian autonomous region in the Black Sea. Germany is keen on ending this ordeal. Russia supplies 40% of Germany’s imported natural gas.

A sustainable solution is one that involves a neutral Ukraine, with peacekeepers on the ground in Eastern Ukraine and greater autonomy to Eastern Ukraine under a new Ukrainian constitution, Dehn says. Prime Minister Arseniy Yatsenyuk even said he was okay with giving Donetsk more autonomy from Kiev.President Poroshenko would also have to agree to such a plan and Europe can ensure he does due to its leverage over Ukraine via trade, financing, investment and its recent billions in financial aid.“There has been no official confirmation of media reports of a Merkel-Putin peace plan, but we think they will gain in credibility once conditions elsewhere become more conducive for a deal,” Dehn predicts.“The closer we get to a military defeat for the separatists the stronger the incentive becomes for Putin to engage in a negotiated settlement that would lead to a neutral Ukraine,” says Dehn.The analogy here is Syria, in reverse. In Syria, the rebels fighting the Bashar al-Assad regime were militarily defeated and as a result the West lost influence in Syria completely. Russia was on the side of al-Assad and ‘won’ this conflict.As Ukrainian forces push for final victory in the East, this can result in significant escalation in the military conflict in the short term, but if the Ukrainian military continues to prevail then the drama may draw to a close sooner, with the first real opportunity for a negotiated settlement.
According to a Politico poll, two-thirds of swing-State voters are opposed to further U.S. involvement in the Ukraine. President Obama and Democrats facing re-election in November will be extremely reluctant to retaliate militarily against Russia.“The economies of Western Europe and Russia are deeply intertwined,” says Robbert van Batenburg, director of market strategy for Newedge, a commodity hedger. Europe is reliant on Russian commodities, especially natural gas. “This limits Europe’s motivation to retaliate against a Russian offensive against Ukraine with more than economic sanctions,” he says.Russia is no stranger to military run-ins with its former Soviet subjects. It invaded Georgia on August 8, 2008. For Van Batenburg, the timing of that invasion was strategic: ahead of the U.S. general election and the upturn in European natural gas demand.If the crisis escalates, markets could be in for a sizable pullback of 10% or more in the S&P 500, Van Batenburg says. Countries such as Germany and Turkey could be especially vulnerable in this scenario, given their exposure to the Russian economy.For investors betting this crisis does not end pretty, natural gas, palladium, and platinum prices will benefit from the prospects of disruptions in the exports of these commodities from Russia, according to Newedge.

UlanBatori · Post by **UlanBatori** » 06 Aug 2014 06:43

I have a question about this "military defeat of the separatists" bijnej. There was no real mutiny in East Ukraine: just an uprising. If the UkBazis "crush" that using tanks and missiles, reducing most of the cities to rubble, what exactly have they won? If the roles were reversed, and the former Ukrainian Prejidente (who had to run away) had instead deployed Russian-backed forces and "crushed" the Maidan Rightwingers and reduced Kiev and most of West Ukraine to rubble, would that have been a "victory"??

The military (already in tatters with many defecting and the rest defecating in their pants) can stand on the street corners, and one by one their units will be found dead in gutters with knives in their back, or a Molotov cocktail coming through the APC hatch or their HQ window. The cost of maintaining this "occupation" will be astronomical.

The best that can happen to Ukraine is that East Ukraine goes to Russia. THEN they will get NATO "protection" with thousands of US preachers descending there to run the human trafficking etc. Economic development.

Philip · Post by **Philip** » 06 Aug 2014 08:56

The simplest and most pragmatic solution,what pres.Putin has always advocated.The east remains within the UKR,but,no attempt must be made to integrate it into the EU economy by force or the UKR into NATO.The east must be given significant devolution esp. in economic matters since the vast majority of its people are if Russian ethnicity/Russian speakers.Russia will then continue to supply the UKR with concessional gas and everyone sleeps in peace at home in the warmth of a Russian gas fire esp. in the winter.

The alternative is the inevitable division of the Ukraine north to south along the Dneiper.But them if Kiev were to also fall,and it is just a short "day trip" from the Russian border,the boundariey might be stretched as far as the Dneiste,which would leave a sliver of the UKR worthy of merging with little Moldova!

In the ultimate analysis,it appears that "Gen.Winter" will one again win a famous victory for Mother Russia"! How history repeats itself,the first time as tragedy the second time as farce

vijaykarthik · Post by **vijaykarthik** » 06 Aug 2014 09:45

I will actually not be surprised if Yanukovych becomes a power centre in Ukraine again in a few years.

Austin · Post by **Austin** » 06 Aug 2014 10:31

Obama: 'Russia doesn't make anything,' West must be firm with China

President Barack Obama dismissed Russia as a nation that "doesn't make anything" and said in an interview with the Economist magazine that the West needs to be "pretty firm" with China as Beijing pushes to expand its role in the world economy.

Obama has tried to focus U.S. foreign policy on Asia, a response to China's economic and military might. But for months, that "pivot" has been overshadowed by a flurry of international crises, including Russia's support for separatists in eastern Ukraine.

Russia is the world's third-largest oil producer and second-largest natural gas producer. Europe relies heavily on Russian energy exports, complicating the West's response to the Ukraine crisis.

Obama downplayed Moscow's role in the world, dismissing President Vladimir Putin as a leader causing short-term trouble for political gain that will hurt Russia in the long term.

"I do think it's important to keep perspective. Russia doesn't make anything," Obama said in the interview.

"Immigrants aren't rushing to Moscow in search of opportunity. The life expectancy of the Russian male is around 60 years old. The population is shrinking," he said.

Obama told Putin last week that he believes Russia violated the 1988 Intermediate Range Nuclear Forces treaty designed to eliminate ground-launched cruise missiles.

Speaking of Russia's "regional challenges," Obama said in the interview: "We have to make sure that they don't escalate where suddenly nuclear weapons are back in the discussion of foreign policy."

Obama described U.S. tensions with China as "manageable."

China is engaged in territorial disputes with its neighbors in the oil-rich South China Sea, and frequently skirmishes with the West over intellectual property issues.

"One thing I will say about China, though, is you also have to be pretty firm with them, because they will push as hard as they can until they meet resistance," Obama told the Economist.

"They're not sentimental, and they are not interested in abstractions. And so simple appeals to international norms are insufficient," he said.

Obama said he believes trade tensions will ease when China shifts "from simply being the low-cost manufacturer of the world" and its companies begin making higher-value items that need intellectual property protections.

"There have to be mechanisms both to be tough with them when we think that they're breaching international norms, but also to show them the potential benefits over the long term," he said.

Austin · Post by **Austin** » 06 Aug 2014 10:35

Obama has got lot of his facts wrong , If Russia does not make any thing some one needs to remind him that American astronauts fly to ISS via Soyuz

Average male life expectancy in Russia is 65 and not 60 as he says and a lot of immigrants from CIS country do go to Russia for work , Ukraine has a large chunk of it.

Last but not the least the Russia polulation is not shrinking but growing

'Dying' Russia's Birth Rate Is Now Higher Than The United States'

That begs the question as Stephan Cohen asked many times who advises Obama.

Chinese wont be amused by what Obama says about them.

Austin · Post by **Austin** » 06 Aug 2014 10:39

That reminds me some months back when Ukraine/Crimea crises was at its peak , Obama administration said the Russians did not inform them about Tamerlan Tsarnaev who was responsible for shoot out and quite opposite to what was said earlier that the Russian Intelligence did inform them about these two chechnian guys but FBI did not do due diligence thinking the Russian were usually complaining about Chechnian

Shreeman · Post by **Shreeman** » 06 Aug 2014 10:52

Obama appears keen to gain the worst president ever unanimous rating outdoing not just the GWBs but the liekes of musharrafs and idi amins by ample margin to match his nobel peace prize and improve his candidacy for the presidents ' hall of fame. he is likely to be inducted at the first elibile vote in my opinion.

sorry.

Austin · Post by **Austin** » 06 Aug 2014 10:57

Mark Adomanis

3 Things Barack Obama Got Wrong About Russia

President Barack Obama recently gave an interview to The Economist in which he was pretty clearly doing his best to give Vladimir Putin an aneurysm:

Obama downplayed Moscow’s role in the world, dismissing President Vladimir Putin as a leader causing short-term trouble for political gain that will hurt Russia in the long term.

“I do think it’s important to keep perspective. Russia doesn’t make anything,” Obama said in the interview.

“Immigrants aren’t rushing to Moscow in search of opportunity. The life expectancy of the Russian male is around 60 years old. The population is shrinking,” he said.

Obama has managed to compress a pretty startling amount of factual inaccuracy into just 3 short sentences. Let’s take his claims in order.

1) “Immigrants aren’t rushing to Moscow in search of opportunity”

One of the first things that anyone notices when they are in Moscow is the enormous number of immigrants from Central Asia. Probably the single most noteworthy and inescapable feature of modern Russian life is the prevalence of hundreds of thousands, if not millions, of people who have already rushed to Moscow “in search of opportunity.” It’s impossible to miss them.

If for some reason you distrust the official statistics that demonstrate the huge numbers of immigrants moving to Russia, maybe you’d be willing to listen to liberal darling Alexey Navalny. Navalny, you see, is actively agitating on behalf of aggressive anti-immigration policies, recently writing yet another blog post bemoaning the massive numbers of Muslim “guest workers.” Navalny’s (popular) campaign only makes sense if there are large numbers of immigrants. Indeed a media outlet fully funded by Barack Obama’s very own government recently produced an interesting video showing how Eid Al-Fitr was celebrated in Moscow by the throngs of immigrants that are (you guessed it) there “in search of opportunity.”

Russia is widely acknowledged to be the world’s second most popular destination for immigrants after the United States, and several of the most consequential political disagreements in Russian society revolve around the question of how to deal with immigration. Anyone who thinks that Russia isn’t dealing with a significant debate over immigration simply doesn’t know anything about the country.

2) “The life expectancy of the Russian male is around 60 years old”

The life expectancy of the Russian male isn’t a subject of conjuncture or obscure philosophical inquiry, it is a number that is very easily found on the public-facing website of the Russian state statistics service. In 2013, the average male life expectancy in Russia was a little bit above 65 (technically it was 65.14). When Obama says that life expectancy is “around 60″ he’s off by about 8%. With a similar margin of error we could say that Barack Obama is the 41st president of the United States, that he won 47% of the vote in the 2012 presidential election, and that he was born in 1957. 8% is a margin of error that people rarely feel confident using, because it very quickly makes you sound rather ill-informed and ignorant.

It is still possible, of course, to argue that Russian male life expectancy is low. In comparison to other countries in the region it is rather low. But there’s a difference between 65 and 60. One is factually accurate and one isn’t. For some reason Obama chose to go with the inaccurate one, and it’s worth pointing out as much.

3) “The population is shrinking”

Obama’s statement is a perfect example of why I so frequently write about a topic as seemingly obscure and boring as Russian demography: people from the US political elite almost always make huge mistakes when talking about it. Russia’s population is not shrinking, it is growing. The Russian population isn’t just growing in 2014, it also grew in 2013. And 2012. And 2011. And 2010. And 2009. Unless you get into a Bill Clinton-like debate over the meaning of the word “is,” it’s impossible to argue that Russia’s population is shrinking. It was shrinking in the past and it is likely to shrink in the future, but it is not shrinking at the present moment. Not a very complicated concept.

I’m fully aware, of course, that Russian demography is not the most important issue in the world. Countries will not rise and fall because Barack Obama used out of date information on Russian life expectancy. But it really does not say anything good about Obama’s team that they allowed not one, not two, but three blatant factual inaccuracies to sneak into a sit-down interview with the press. Before doing an interview like this, someone as powerful as Obama will have a small army of researchers and assistants running around to help him prepare. Apparently none of them could be bothered to do a few basic Google GOOGL -1.61% searches.

In today’s world, it is not that difficult to get accurate demographic information, and it’s a little bit disconcerting that no one on Obama’s team was able to do so.

Austin · Post by **Austin** » 06 Aug 2014 11:13

Shreeman wrote:Obama appears keen to gain the worst president ever unanimous rating outdoing not just the GWBs but the liekes of musharrafs and idi amins by ample margin to match his nobel peace prize and improve his candidacy for the presidents ' hall of fame. he is likely to be inducted at the first elibile vote in my opinion.

sorry.

Obama is probably advised by Neocons in his foreign policy specially after the Liyba bengazy fiasco , His approach toward Russia and China wont win him any friends and his open statement of containing China and Russia would backfire and will only bring the two nations together withing SCO and BRICS.

Aditya_V · Post by **Aditya_V** » 06 Aug 2014 11:30

Now in Hindsight, after looking at the split of Yugoslavia, Support to the Chechens, Manifestation in Former Soviet States. I am thinking, did the cold ever end for NATO, it does not look like. They have continued to mordernise their weaponry.

Can anyone tell me apart from allowing Turkey to Bully Asad, why does NATO exist today, it serves no useful purpose other than cause unjustified actions like Libya, which has created a mess.

Has Western Europe and America decided that apart from thier lands, Western Europe North, South America and Australia (where the natives have been genocided / ethnically cleansed). The Russians/ Indians and Africa will be tied down by Islamic/Christian Fights while they enjoy peace and prosperity.

Austin · Post by **Austin** » 06 Aug 2014 11:58

^^^ Thats how they are if you are on the right side of Western/US foreign policy then you would be darling of western media and all you sins are forgiven or say hidden .....once you end up trying to pursue your own independent foreign policy and own interest that would rub with western one all hell with break loose and you can become a pariah state over night.

Fortunately Chinese economy has grown to the extent where it can match the EU/US economy in size and trade and that is something good for the world in terms of sanctions etc and with BRICS growing there would be alternative to Western Economy which itself is in the ICU dying a slow and painful death.

Austin · Post by **Austin** » 06 Aug 2014 12:03

Note how US media in tandem refuses to cover story thats inconvenient for them and shows how the Free Media is also an extension of their foreign policy

American media refuse to meet with Ukrainian servicemen who asked for asylum in Russia

Russia’s Foreign Ministry stated that out of all American journalists, only representatives of Bloomberg came to the meeting

Russia. Deputy Head of the ministry’s Department of Information and Press Maria Zakharova wrote this on her Facebook page on Wednesday.

“This story happened the day before yesterday… In the morning, news agencies reported that over 400 Ukrainian servicemen addressed Russian border guards asking for asylum. Understanding the importance for journalists, especially the foreign ones, of the opportunity to communicate with the representatives of Ukrainian armed forces, to find out straight from the source about the real combat situation, about the motivation of Ukrainian soldiers, the real causes of their act, we decided on the same day to invite a group of foreign correspondents to the Rostov region. Luckily, a plane of Russia’s Defense Ministry was heading there and was able to take 30 to 40 journalists. We started to call everyone immediately. About forty people gathered within an hour,” Zakharova wrote.

However, there were hardly any reporters representing top US-based media outlets among those who wanted to get to the Russian-Ukrainian border.

“Aside from Bloomberg agency journalists, there was none from American media,” Zakharova wrote. She added that the invitation to meet with Ukrainian servicemen that passed to the Russian territory was declined by representatives of leading US media: CNN, The New York Times, The Washington Post, The Christian Science Monitor. “Then on what are based the stories of these journalists, if they refuse to meet with the sources?!” “The funniest behavior was shown by Reuters: they signed up, set out to the airport, halfway changed their minds and didn’t fly,” Zakharova said.

“We are reproached for having little communication with western media, and this is supposed to be the reason for Russia’s information blockade. But the fact remains a fact: we speak, and they don’t want to listen, or they are not allowed,” the Foreign Ministry’s spokesperson stressed.

RSoami · Post by **RSoami** » 06 Aug 2014 14:20

Obama is given less credit than what he should get.
US elite is full of fire eating and bomb shitting people. If US didnt intervene in Syria it was probably because Obama didnt want to.
Even in case of Crimea, had it been another president, he must have been throwing tantrums on `who lost Crimea` as if it were American territory.
He may be dumb. Most americans are. But he is certainly not a `lets start bombing because my wife doesnt listen to me` kind of guy.

vijaykarthik · Post by **vijaykarthik** » 06 Aug 2014 15:38

Lest we forget them, new trouble brewing in N-K.

Trouble in N-K

Prem · Post by **Prem** » 06 Aug 2014 22:24

Aditya_V wrote:Now in Hindsight, after looking at the split of Yugoslavia, Support to the Chechens, Manifestation in Former Soviet States. I am thinking, did the cold ever end for NATO, it does not look like. They have continued to mordernise their weaponry.Can anyone tell me apart from allowing Turkey to Bully Asad, why does NATO exist today, it serves no useful purpose other than cause unjustified actions like Libya, which has created a mess.
Has Western Europe and America decided that apart from thier lands, Western Europe North, South America and Australia (where the natives have been genocided / ethnically cleansed). The Russians/ Indians and Africa will be tied down by Islamic/Christian Fights while they enjoy peace and prosperity.

Present NATO policy have roots in the speeches of Javier Solana who was NATO secretary in late 90s. He had big influence on Post cold War NATO policy where NATO members they openly granted themselves the discretionary right to intervene anywhere in the world. This pigmy of man was very blatant about Who is gonna stop us kind of attitude.

vishvak · Post by **vishvak** » 07 Aug 2014 00:08

UNHRC says 7,30,000 people from Ukraine left for Russia during current crisis.
link

Following an appeal by the army to leave, more people have fled the biggest rebel stronghold of Donetsk, where fighting intensified over the weekend. A week of combat in the separatists' second-largest bastion, Luhansk, has put an end to municipal rubbish collection and, more importantly, left 250,000 people without water, electricity, internet or telephone, according to local authorities.

ramana · Post by **ramana** » 07 Aug 2014 00:16

So Ukraine is implementing Russian exodus and depopulating the area.

Most Western supported regimes do this.

I suspect there is British hand in Ukraine fiasco.

OTH it gives one more nail in Ombaba's lie about Russian population decreasing.

Philip · Post by **Philip** » 07 Aug 2014 05:48

Ethnic cleansing Western style,the Partition of India being its majestic high point!

Opportunities for Indian agri/food producers to take up the slack.
http://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/a ... -sanctions
Russia bans agricultural imports from west in tit-for-tat sanctions move
Kremlin decree restricts EU and American products for up to one year, while acknowledging move may lead to food price rises

Russian President Vladimir Putin Hold A Government Meeting On Arms Manufacture
Russian officials are also reported to be considering banning European airlines from flying to Asia over Siberia. Photograph: Sasha Mordovets/Getty Images

Vladimir Putin has banned the import of agricultural goods from countries that have imposed sanctions on Russia in a tit-for-tat move that deepens the economic standoff between the Kremlin and the west.

Russian government officials have been told to draw up a list of western agricultural products and raw materials that will be banned or restricted for up to one year, according to the decree published on the Kremlin website.

In tacit recognition that Russian consumers will bear the cost of the import ban, the decree also instructs officials to come up with measures to stabilise commodity markets and prevent food price rises.

The import ban follows a threat of retaliation from Russia's prime minister, Dmitry Medvedev, in response to the grounding of the budget airline subsidiary of Aeroflot as a result of EU sanctions. Russian officials are reported to be considering banning European airlines from flying to Asia over Siberia.

Food has also been caught up in political tensions between Russia and the west. In recent days Russian food safety authorities have banned the import of Polish fruit and vegetables, while McDonald's cheeseburgers and milkshakes are being investigated by a regional branch of consumer protection agency Rospotrebnadzor.

The import ban will hit all EU countries and the United States, which last week stepped up punitive action against Russia in response to Moscow's support for eastern separatists in Ukraine, unwavering despite the downing of Malaysian airliner MH17.

The Kremlin decree did not specify which foods would be affected, but an official told the newspaper Vedomosti that the list would include meat, fruit and vegetables, but not wine or baby food.

Russia is Europe's second largest market for food and drink and has been an important consumer of Polish pig meat and Dutch fruit and vegetables. Exports of food and raw materials to Russia were worth €12.2bn (£9.7bn) in 2013, following several years of double-digit growth.

The UK is less likely to lose out; in 2013 its biggest food and drink export was £17m of frozen fish, followed by £5.7m of cheese and £5.3m of coffee.

Russia banned EU pork at the start of the year as the Ukraine crisis escalated, cutting off 25% of all European pig meat exports in a move that the European Commission said exposed European farmers to significant losses.

Russia's state-owned banks have been cut off from Europe's capital markets, while Russian defence and energy firms will no longer be able to import hi-tech western equipment that could have been used for military purposes, fracking or Arctic oil exploration.

Russia has remained defiant in the face of the sanctions, which its foreign ministry has called destructive and short-sighted.

Putin chasing out EU "Pigs" !:rotfl:

Pratyush · Post by **Pratyush** » 07 Aug 2014 10:05

When I look at what's going on in Ukraine. My thoughts automatically are shifted to the Western Pacific. I have great difficulty in concentrating on the issue at hand and keep thinking about the PRC.

That this is just a way of distracting the Russian attention from the PRC.

Austin · Post by **Austin** » 07 Aug 2014 12:49

Pratyush wrote:When I look at what's going on in Ukraine. My thoughts automatically are shifted to the Western Pacific. I have great difficulty in concentrating on the issue at hand and keep thinking about the PRC.

That this is just a way of distracting the Russian attention from the PRC.

In which way ?

vijaykarthik · Post by **vijaykarthik** » 07 Aug 2014 14:05

Russian Sanctions: Economic warfare

Government military spokesman Lysenko denied Ukrainian planes had carried out air strikes: "The Ukrainian military does not bomb the towns of Donetsk and Luhansk or any other similar populated places," he said.

Umm, then who is flying all those planes and dropping those bombs? The health dept alongside public works dept, I reckon.

UlanBatori · Post by **UlanBatori** » 07 Aug 2014 18:04

The Right Sector, the Jubilee Mission Baptist Church, the NeoNazis of Idaho and BlackFireWater Security Inc, ably supported by D1ck Cheney Reconstructions Inc.

The Ukrainian Military generally stays in their barracks and

or tries to escape to Russia.

RSoami · Post by **RSoami** » 07 Aug 2014 21:03

http://www.worldbulletin.net/news/14209 ... sia-cutoff
Ukraine gets gas from Europe after Russia cutoff.

http://rt.com/news/178668-osce-russia-ukraine-border/
OSCE: No Russian violations on Ukrainian border

OSCE has not been infiltrated at all. They had also put spanner in American works during the Georgian conflict by stating initially that it was Georgia`s fault. Though later changed the story. Not learnt anything.

ramana · Post by **ramana** » 07 Aug 2014 21:06

UlanBatori wrote:The Right Sector, the Jubilee Mission Baptist Church, the NeoNazis of Idaho and BlackFireWater Security Inc, ably supported by D1ck Cheney Reconstructions Inc.

The Ukrainian Military generally stays in their barracks and or tries to escape to Russia.

BBC had a hysterical male reporter decrying the airplane bomboing and taking about victims without trying ot find out who did it.
So that kid of tips you off as to who dunnit!

Austin · Post by **Austin** » 07 Aug 2014 22:43

On Ukraine Crises : David Stockman

Austin · Post by **Austin** » 07 Aug 2014 23:21

US ready to tighten sanctions on Russia, after oil deal with Iran

David Cohen, a top US Treasury Department official, said on Thursday that the US has warned Russia about a reported oil-for-goods swap with Iran, and that such a deal would be exposed to additional US sanctions. Although Cohen said it is still unclear if Russia and Iran have agreed a deal. Washington also said it is prepared to ratchet up sanctions against Moscow if it does not alter its course in backing separatists in eastern Ukraine.

RSoami · Post by **RSoami** » 08 Aug 2014 00:17

Things are getting predictable now.
Here is the bombing/Shelling of Donetsk.
http://www.thestar.com/news/world/2014/ ... lling.html
Shelling in eastern Ukraine city of Donetsk strikes hospital, buildings.

NATO chief has asked Russia to step back from brink and has vowed more support for Ukraine.
http://in.reuters.com/article/2014/08/0 ... NX20140807

That means, the Ukbapzis have been given up on. NATO will have to take over. First they will try to supply material to them.
Which is here -
http://globalnews.ca/news/1497192/canad ... o-ukraine/

If they still fail, more help will follow,

NATO's chief defied mounting Russian belligerence Thursday with a pledge to provide assistance to Ukraine.

This western game is becoming boring. Next up, no fly zone. bombing etc etc.
Well, if Putin continues to fall in the trap of good cop(Merkel) bad cop (Obama) routine.

RSoami · Post by **RSoami** » 08 Aug 2014 00:25

Ukraine was not doing too well economically before this civil war
Where will they be once this is over. No gas from Russia either.
Its amazing what people like Arsenic have done to just reach the top.
They will be licking European and American boots for some pebbles for the rest of their political lives.

Philip · Post by **Philip** » 08 Aug 2014 01:23

Big opportunities for Indian agri/food companies.The greater the sanctions regime imposed upon Russia by O'Bumbler and co.,the greater the risk of Russia showing the West the upturned finger and embarking upon a "humanitarian intervention" in the east,to save lives of innocent women and children being brutalised by the UKR/mercenary forces shelling Donetsk Gaza fashion.

Western food imports off the menu as Russia hits back over Ukraine sanctions
Dmitry Medvedev says Moscow is also prepared to introduce measures in aviation, shipbuilding and automobile sectors
http://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/a ... -sanctions

Russians will no longer be able to buy fruit, vegetables, meat, fish or dairy products from the EU and the US, as the full scope of Moscow's food import ban became apparent on Thursday.

President Vladimir Putin told officials on Wednesday to come up with a list of western agricultural products and raw materials to be banned, in reaction to western sanctions over Russia's policies in Ukraine.

Russia's prime minister, Dmitry Medvedev, said the ban was effective immediately and would last for a year. It covers most foodstuffs from the US, the 28 EU countries, Canada, Australia and Norway.

"Until the last moment, we hoped that our foreign colleagues would realise that sanctions lead to a blind alley, and that no one benefits from them. But they didn't realise this, and now we have been forced to respond," Medvedev said.

The EU and US have sanctioned a number of Russians, including billionaires believed to be close to Putin and those actively involved in the annexing Crimea and the unrest in eastern Ukraine. After the downing of Malaysia Airlines flight MH17, which pro-Russia rebels are believed to have shot down , a number of key Russian banks were also sanctioned, cutting them off from European capital markets.

The key question is whether the import ban would hurt European producers more than Russian consumers. The Kremlin's English-language channel, Russia Today, said the food ban could spark a "crisis in Europe" and would cost billions of pounds in lost revenues.

There was less musing on the cost to ordinary Russians, who have become used to readily available imported foods.

"I am sure that our market will be filled with fresh quality Russian products, which anyway many Russians prefer to the imported ones," said Medvedev.

The agriculture minister, Nikolai Fyodorov, said more Brazilian meat and New Zealand cheese would be imported to offset the newly prohibited items. He also said Moscow was in talks with Belarus and Kazakhstan to prevent the banned western foodstuffs being exported to Russia from the two countries.

Medvedev said Russia was prepared to introduce further measures in aviation, shipbuilding and automobile sectors, but said it would do so carefully. Moscow has already floated the idea of banning European airlines from flying over Russian airspace, which could add several hours to some flights between Europe and Asia.

Russia is Europe's second-largest market for food and drink. Exports of food and raw materials to Russia were worth €12.2bn (£9.7bn) in 2013, following several years of double-digit growth.

The UK is less likely to lose out. In 2013, its biggest food and drink export was £17m of frozen fish, followed by £5.7m of cheese and £5.3m of coffee.

The president of the European Central bank, Mario Draghi, said on Thursday that the Ukraine crisis was contributing to heightened geopolitical risks that are threatening the eurozone's faltering recovery. "Some of them, like the situation in Ukraine and Russia will have a greater impact on the euro area than they … have on other parts of the world," he said.

The world's second-largest bottler of Coca-Cola drinks has become the latest company to be hit by the escalating standoff between Russia and the west, along with the sportswear maker Adidas.

Coca-Cola HBC, which bottles and distributes the US company's drinks in 28 countries, said volumes would fall for the rest of the year, citing a sudden deterioration in Russia, its biggest market.

Financial markets were quick to react to Putin's tit-for-tat move. Moscow's main two share indices extended Wednesday's sharp declines, with retail and banking shares among the biggest fallers. The RTS index lost 1.9%, and the rouble-denominated Micex fell 1.5%. European indices were also weaker.

Food has already been caught up in political tensions between Russia and the west. Moscow's food safety authorities have recently banned the import of Polish fruit and vegetables, and a regional branch of the consumer protection agency Rospotrebnadzor is investigating McDonald's cheeseburgers and milkshakes.

European pork was banned at the start of the year as the Ukraine crisis escalated, cutting off 25% of all EU pig meat exports in a move that the European commission said exposed farmers to significant losses.

The EU and US stepped up punitive action against Russia last week in response to Moscow's support for eastern separatists in Ukraine, which has been unwavering despite the downing of MH17.

A Dutch rescue team had to abandon its work at the crash site on Thursday, judging that the frontline of fighting between Ukrainian forces and Russia-backed rebels was too close.

Ukrainian forces have made gains in the east in recent weeks, but at the expense of civilian casualties. The rebels are now mainly holed up in the regional centres of Donetsk and Luhansk, leaving Kiev with a dilemma of how to win back the strongholds without enormous civilian loss of life.

Russia is carrying out military exercises near the border with Ukraine this week, and there are fears that the option of a ground invasion is still on the table. Nato said earlier this week that Moscow had amassed around 20,000 troops near the border and could be planning an invasion under the guise of a humanitarian intervention.

In Kiev, there were clashes on Thursday morning as authorities attempted to clear Independence Square, known as the Maidan, of tents and protesters. The square was the centre of the protests against President Viktor Yanukovych's rule, and a small hardcore of protesters have refused to move on and have remained living in the square since Yanukovych was deposed in February.

The square was cleared by armed members of volunteer battalions which had returned from fighting the pro-Russia separatists in the east, themselves made up of former Maidan activists. The violent clashes suggest tough times ahead for Ukraine, where President Petro Poroshenko will have to deal with the presence of many armed volunteer groups when the crisis in the east is over.

RSoami · Post by **RSoami** » 08 Aug 2014 01:58

The square was cleared by armed members of volunteer battalions which had returned from fighting the pro-Russia separatists in the east, themselves made up of former Maidan activists. The violent clashes suggest tough times ahead for Ukraine, where President Petro Poroshenko will have to deal with the presence of many armed volunteer groups when the crisis in the east is over.

Sounds like Germany of the 20s.

Satya_anveshi · Post by **Satya_anveshi** » 08 Aug 2014 08:01

Russian students wishing Obama on his birthday and given him mouthful

Philip · Post by **Philip** » 08 Aug 2014 09:07

The US 's track record in in its support and intervention overseas is akin to the "kiss of death".It is most unfortunate that the Chocolate soldier cannot learn from history.As the US,UK and EU nations flee with their underwear from little Libya,are scared to tackle the monstrous ISIS in (US/NATO) war devastated Iraq,.Poroshenko is looking yo NATO and the US to win back a fast slipping Ukraine for him.

http://rt.com/news/178804-nato-drills-u ... oroshenko/

NATO plans joint drills with Ukraine, invites Poroshenko to summit
Published time: August 07, 2014

The North-Atlantic bloc’s chief says NATO is planning joint exercises with Ukraine and that President Petro Poroshenko is expected to join their summit in Wales.

The Secretary General of the organization, Anders Fogh Rasmussen, was at a press conference in Kiev, where he outlined that NATO would also work with Ukraine on defense planning, as well as how to reform its armed forces and institutions. Rasmussen repeatedly made the point that they are ready to advise and assist Ukraine.

“As a sign of our strong support and solidarity, we have decided to hold a special meeting with Ukraine in Wales and I look forward to seeing Mr Poroshenko there,” NATO’s Secretary General added.

NATO conducted drills in the Black Sea as recently as July, albeit without Ukraine due to the turmoil in the country. The main objective of the exercise was to improve collaboration between the naval forces of different NATO member states. The Sea Breeze naval drills have been conducted annually since 1997.

Rasmussen also reiterated that cooperation with Russia is not going to be restored at the moment. Rasmussen blamed Moscow for the unrest in eastern Ukraine.

“We have not seen any changes in Russia’s behavior. We do not have any other choice but to keep our cooperation with Russia in all areas suspended.”

“This has affected projects like Afghanistan, terrorism, narcotics and piracy,” Rasmussen declared. “Cooperation will continue to be suspended until Russia begins to comply with founding documents of cooperation between NATO and Russia.”

He also mentioned that Russia had amassed 20,000 troops near the border and could be planning a ground invasion of its neighbor, mentioning that Russia "should not use peace-keeping as an excuse for war-making."

READ MORE: Reports of Russia’s military build-up on Ukraine border groundless - Moscow

In April, NATO announced that it is suspending all military and civilian cooperation with Russia over the Ukrainian crisis. However, NATO stated that the organization will continue political dialogue. At the same time, the alliance intensified security cooperation with Ukraine and agreed on a package of measures aimed at strengthening cooperation with other NATO partners in Eastern Europe.

Rasmussen said that he expected Russia's cooperation with NATO in Afghanistan to continue, including training counter-narcotics personnel, maintenance of Afghan air force helicopters and a transit route out of the country.
The decision, however, was expected to affect the counter-narcotics and helicopter programs, a senior alliance official told Reuters in April, following the announcement.

"We are exploring avenues to see if there are other ways we can provide training to those counter-narcotics officials through other agencies or in cooperation with other partners," he said. NATO-Russian cooperation through the helicopter maintenance trust fund would also be halted, he added.
1K298

RSoami · Post by **RSoami** » 08 Aug 2014 10:24

NATO is a complete no no for Putin. The west knows this very very well. They are provoking Putin to intervene. If he does, he is a fascist hitler type fellow, if he doesnt, Nato will be there anyway. good tactics.

Austin · Post by **Austin** » 08 Aug 2014 14:10

He wont intervene , if he had to he would have done by now. Its a waiting game and neither side are winning and loosing if the status quo is maintained for long then both sides will be forced to negotiate.

NATO exercise with non-NATO country is nothing unusual they were doing the same with Russia till recently but NATO had mentioned they wont take Ukraine or Georgia into NATO.

I suspect if they every join NATO then Russia will deploy nuclear weapons in Kalingrad region and break out of INF treaty. Which means if NATO brings tactical nukes at Russia door step then Russia will move Tactical Nukes on West door step.

Considering the economic situation of EU and the US and the political will for such a thing is non-existant

Its a rhetoric game , bigger the power more the rhetoric then there are some like Poland and Lithuania that punching far above its weight in decibel

Austin · Post by **Austin** » 08 Aug 2014 14:19

Meanwhile Russia is slowly reducing its dollar depedencies on its economy

Russia, China agree on national currency swaps

I wont be surprised in the next 2-3 years when Renminbi becomes fully convertible currency , Russia will accept Renminbi along with USD/Euro in its Oil/Gas export.

That would give Renminbi the Energy backing and in return Russia would see rise of Chinese investment in their country , its a win win game for both.

I hope in December when Putin visits India we have similar Currency Swap agreement between Rouble-Rupee .....I think RBI has hinted that lets see

Pratyush · Post by **Pratyush** » 08 Aug 2014 16:28

Austin wrote:
In which way ?

I don't know, perhaps, by pushing the Russians in a tighter embrace of the PRC. But on the whole, this whole affair is just too messed up. To make sense, in any way shape or form.