Eastern Europe/Ukraine

[Philip]

Some headlines from the Guardian UK showing the absurdity of the situ as UB has pointe dout.

http://www.theguardian.com/world
Putin likens Ukraine's forces to Nazis and threatens standoff in the Arctic

President hits back at invasion accusations as Nato accuses Russia of 'blatant violation' of Ukraine's sovereignty

Obama accuses Russia of sending troops into Ukraine
Russians start asking: are we at war?
Russia strikes back at Canada in Twitter war of the maps over Ukraine

Syrian rebels surround Filipino UN peacekeepers in Golan Heights
Armed men, reportedly Syrian rebels, standing near the Quneitra border crossing in the Golan Heights

Rebels have surrounded peacekeepers and demanded they give up their weapons, hours after taking 43 Fijian soldiers hostage

Three million refugees have fled Syria, says UN

Isis video shows beheading of Kurdish fighter
Kurdish troops in northern Iraq

The video, titled a 'message in blood to the leaders of the American-Kurdish alliance' follows air strikes in northern Iraq

Islamic State kills 150 captured troops in Syria, say activists
Sinai jihadist group says it has beheaded four men

[Philip]

Some choice quotes from Putin:

http://rt.com/news/183760-putin-quotes- ... ]‘Anything US touches turns into Libya or Iraq’: Top Putin quotes at youth forum[/b]

Published time: August 29, 2014
August 29, 2014. Russian President Vladimir Putin talks to the participants in the Seliger 2014 National Youth Forum in the Tver Region. (RIA Novosti / Michael Klimentyev)

Vladimir Putin has criticized Washington’s unilateral actions on the international arena, saying that whatever it touches seems to be turning into Libya or Iraq. Below are the top 10 quotes from the Russian President’s speech at the Seliger youth forum.

Unilateral decisions made outside the United Nations are usually doomed to failure, Putin said Friday, while speaking at the “Seliger-2014” annual youth forum.

“Do you remember the joke: ‘Whatever Russians make, they always end up with a Kalashnikov?’ I get an impression that whatever Americans touch they always end up with Libya or Iraq,” Putin told the participants of the 10th forum held on Lake Seliger in Tver region, some 370 km north of Moscow.

“When decisions are made unilaterally, they always turn out to be short lived. And the other way round: it’s difficult to reach consensus at the UN because often opposite opinions and positions collide. But that is the only way to achieve long-term decisions,” he said.

When a decision is balanced and supported by key members of the international community, Putin said, everyone starts working in order fulfill it perfectly.
'UN won’t be needed if it serves only US and its allies'

Putin totally disagreed that the UN is inefficient. But the organization needs to be reformed and its instruments should be used efficiently.

The reform should become a result of a consensus reached by the overwhelming majority of the members of the organization, he said.

It is also necessary to preserve the fundamental grounds of the UN’s efficiency. In particular, only the Security Council should have the power to make decision on sanctions and the use of military force, Putin said. And these decisions must be obligatory for everyone. Such mechanisms should not be eroded. “Otherwise the UN will turn into the League of Nations,” the Russian President said.

The organization will lose its purpose if it is only an “instrument to serve foreign policy interests of only one country – in this case the US and its allies,” Putin. “Then it is not needed.”

Putin compared the shelling of east Ukrainian towns and cities by Kiev army to actions by the Nazi forces during the World War Two.

“Sad as it might seem, this reminds me of the events of World War II, when the German Nazi troops surrounded our cities, like Leningrad, and directly shelled those cities and their residents,” Putin said.

“Why they (Kiev) call this a military-humanitarian operation?” he said, adding that the conflicting sides should get to a negotiating table.

Ukrainians who did not support the coup mounted by “our western partners” with the backing of radical nationalists, are being suppressed by the military force, Putin said speaking about the situation in the neighboring state.

“We’re no fools. We saw symbolic cookies handed out on [by Victoria Nuland] Maidan, information support, political support. What that means? A full involvement of the US and European nations into the process of the power change: a violent unconstitutional power change.”

“And the part of the country that disagreed with that is being suppressed with the use of jets, artillery, multiple launch systems and tanks,” Putin said. “If these are today’s European values – I’m gravely disappointed.”

Putin said that Russia did not “annex” Crimea, as the peninsula’s reunion with Russia is often described by foreign media and politicians.

“We didn’t not annex it, we didn’t take it away. We gave people an opportunity to have their say and make a decision, which we took with respect. We protected them, I believe.”

“We had to protect our compatriots, who live there (in Crimea). When we look at events in Donbass, Lugansk, Odessa, it becomes clear to us what would have happened to Crimea if we had not taken measures to provide free expression of will to people.”
'Russia to beef up nuclear deterrence potential'

Russia is going to boost its military forces and nuclear deterrence potential, Putin told the youth forum.

“Russia is one of the most powerful nuclear states. It’s not words, it is the reality,” he said. “We are strengthening our nuclear deterrence forces, we are strengthening our armed forces…We are beefing up our potential and will continue doing so.”

This is being done “not to threaten anyone, “but to feel secure,” he added.
'Russia is not going to get involved in large-scale conflicts'

Russia will not get engaged in any large conflicts, but will defend itself in case of aggression, Putin warned.

“Russia is far from getting involved any large-scale conflicts. We don’t want that and we are not going to do it. And, naturally, we should always be ready to repel any aggression against Russia,” Putin said.

“Our partners – whatever condition their countries are in and whatever foreign policy concept they adhere to – should understand that it’s better not to mess with us,” Putin said. “Thank God, I believe it doesn’t occur to anyone to unleash a large-scale conflict with Russia.”
'Russia will seek acceptable compromises on Arctic'

Russia admits that other states have their interests in the Arctic – the region that is thought to contain vast reserves of oil and gas.

Both Russia and Canada, who along with the US, Norway and Denmark constitute the five states with Polar claims, have made legal attempts to secure their rights to large swathes of the Arctic, which is thought to contain 15 percent of the oil reserves and 30 percent of all natural gas in the world.

“We will take the interests of these states into consideration and seek acceptable compromises,” Putin said, adding that Russia would “naturally” also defend its own interests.

The five Arctic states - Canada, Denmark, Norway, the Russia and the US – have for several years now been in a bitter dispute over how to divide up this resource-rich ‘pie’.
'Crimea recognition will be long and tedious'

It will take a long while for Crimea to be internationally recognizes as part of Russia, Putin believes.

He said he finds it “strange” and referred to an example with the recognition of Kosovo independence where a political will and desire were enough to make such a decision “easily.”

He also recalled that in case with Kosovo, no referendum was held: the decision on independence was made by the parliament of the Serbian breakaway republic. In the situation with Crimea, there was both a decision by the parliament and a referendum. In Putin’s view, the latter was a more democratic way for a nation’s self-determination.

[Philip]

Key battle for Mariupol in the offing.It is astonishing that the Euro=peons and US are supporting these vicious neo-Nazi forces bankrolled by parasitical oligarchs who have
bled Ukraine dry.

http://www.independent.co.uk/voices/ukr ... 97961.html
Kim Sengupta
Thursday 28 August 2014
Ukraine crisis: All eyes turn to Mariupol as separatist showdown looms

Kiev's forces are digging in around the port to stop the opening of a land corridor to Crimea

Mariupol is not among the places which became symbolic, or even particularly well known, to the outside world when the flames of separatism spread through the Donbass: but what happens there in the next days can be a game-changer in Ukraine's increasingly bloody and vicious civil war.

The forces of the Kiev government have made major gains in recent months, taking over the rebel stronghold of Slovyansk; surrounding the second largest city in the region, Luhansk; arriving at the gates of Donetsk, the capital of the 'Peoples' Republic'. But an unexpected counter-offensive has seen the separatists open a second-front, seize territory and, crucially, threaten to open a land corridor to Crimea giving the Kremlin full control of the Azov Sea.

Retreating Ukrainian forces are digging in around Mariupol, a port just 30 miles from Russia, to stop this breakthrough from taking place; a strategically important town nearby, Novoazovsk, is under prolonged attack, say Kiev, with columns of tanks from across the border forcing entry after prolonged artillery bombardment.

So, the focus on the ground will be on Mariupol. It is, perhaps apposite that the showdown will take place there; the city illustrated the enmity between bitter enemies. Government forces, backed by private armies of right-wing nationalists, bankrolled by oligarchs, carried out an attack there on one of the most revered days in Russian-speaking part of the country - the commemoration of victory over Nazi Germany. “This is not about 2014 in Ukraine, this is about Berlin in 1945, that is what they want to avenge, the defeat of their Nazi masters”, Captain Zorin Aleksandr Nicolaivitch, a naval veteran of 18 years, told me in a voice of rage.

The Ukrainian president, Petro Poroshenko, who says he wants to heal the bitter divide in his country, has asked for an emergency session of the UN security council, while in Brussels Nato issued images showing “concrete examples of Russian activity inside Ukraine” and stated that there are around a thousand Russian soldiers now inside Ukraine.

But such are the changed dynamic that Moscow, while issuing routine official denials about the involvement of its forces, appeared relaxed about state TV acknowledging for the first time that serving military personnel had gone over to fight - although they had done so as volunteers sacrificing their beach holidays.

Strong indications of Russian presence in another country, an ally of the West which wants to join the EU and Nato, should lead to massive international outcry. But although David Cameron declared that he was “extremely concerned” about the provocative and unacceptable“ reports of incursion, Angela Merkel called Vladimir Putin to stress they ”must be explained“ and Francois Hollande declared that it would be ”intolerable and unacceptable“, there were no indications of immediate retaliatory action.

Western powers had been distracted by the Gaza war and now over the bloody ascent of Isis. Trying, with some difficulty, to get together a coalition to bomb the Islamists in Syria, Barack Obama is not going to become engaged in a confrontation in eastern Europe. US officials have been saying that while they deal with matters in the Middle East and Asia, Europe with its economic leverage, should take the lead on Russia. But, while further punitive economic measures may hurt Russia, they will also cause damage to European commerce and industry.

Western governments are unlikely to be forced to take action by their electorates. The shock of seeing the Kremlin's ”green men“ in action abroad has palled after Crimea and, in the case of the Donbass, the Ukrainian government is suffering from ”crying wolf“. ”Russian forces have actually entered Ukraine“, said Mr Poroshenko in a statement. But, how many times has he and his ministers claimed that now? Indeed, the Ukrainian President called David Cameron earlier this month to say his artillery had destroyed an invading Russian tank column. Kiev, however, failed to produce any evidence of this triumph; the Russian foreign ministry described the claim as ”some kind of fantasy“.

Nato will hold one of its most important summits in its recent history next week and it is likely that a new set of sanctions will be imposed on Russia. But Putin knows that the Alliance will offer no military challenge and with his popularity climbing to 86 per cent from 55 per cent after the Ukrainian mission, this is a confrontation from which he cannot afford to back down.

[Austin]

'Fact-Hiding' Distinctive Western Behavior in Regard to Events in Ukraine - Lavrov

MOSCOW, August 29 (RIA Novosti) – “Fact-hiding” is a distinctive Western behavior in the events in Ukraine, Russian Foreign Minister Sergei Lavrov said Friday.

“It seems to me that ‘fact-hiding’ is a characteristic feature of the position, first and foremost, by the US and a number of European countries in regard to everything that is happening in Ukraine, be it confirmations of our troops’ movements, or the direct participation of American Special Forces under the Ukrainian forces and them holding military operations, or the investigation of the Malaysian Boeing [passenger] plane crash, or investigating the tragedy on [Ukraine’s] Maidan Square of the so-called sniper deal, or the tragedy in Odesa on May 2,” Lavrov said during a joint press conference with Iranian Foreign Minister Mohammad Zarif in Moscow.

[kancha]

Ukraine is the new Pakistan

If Pakistan looks into a mirror, there is a fine chance it might see Ukraine staring back at it. Both Pakistan and Ukraine are classic examples of countries that have turned into dystopian nightmares because of western meddling.

An interesting perspective!

[member_28638]

“Our partners – whatever condition their countries are in and whatever foreign policy concept they adhere to – should understand that it’s better not to mess with us,” Putin said. “Thank God, I believe it doesn’t occur to anyone to unleash a large-scale conflict with Russia.”

"...it's better not to mess with us"

Wow! Even a thick headed Neanderthal would be able to understand this simple message. Putin realize that you have to forget subtlety when dealing with knuckleheads.

Maybe one day an Indian Leader will be able to talk like tough guy Putin when dealing with all the constant attacks and infiltration on India's Land.

[Austin]

Note the Similarities between MH-17 shooting down and recent Invasion Story , Both Incident happened at critical juncture.

MH-17 as all are now aware happened when Europe was reluctant for 3rd round of sanction and US was pushing for it and MH-17 shooting incident blamed in Russia/Separatist just less than 24 hours after Shooting down by Obama , tilted the balance in favour of even Die Hard anti-Sanction state to sanction Russia.

Invasion theory by Russia from Ukranian President promptly spread by Western MSM comes at a time when EU meeting and NATO meeting takes place next week.

Immediately US Intelligence talks of 5000 Russian Troops in Ukraine and UK Intelligence says 100 Russian Tanks inside Ukraine ......NATO comes with Satellite Photos of some artillery column etc which cannot be verified.

If there are 100 Tanks and 5000 Troops inside Ukraine why not a single photo of the same , When Russia invaded Georgia with tanks there were tons of photos one can verify on the internet.

We seen 1 tank shown by Western MSM and claimed to be Russian one.


Seems Some one top there is unhappy with the recent Peace Talks between EU , Russia and Ukraine and the right moment is next week to spread a canard of lie just as they did with MH-17 shooting incident

[RSoami]

Europe is talking more and tougher sanctions.
Russia is likely to move closer to Asia once and for all if the Russian elite has any brains.
Also Putin is gonna/should intervene in Ukraine. Europeons can do no more than sanctions anyway. Why lose both money and Ukraine?

[Virupaksha]

Europe is talking more and tougher sanctions.
Russia is likely to move closer to Asia once and for all if the Russian elite has any brains.
Also Putin is gonna/should intervene in Ukraine. Europeons can do no more than sanctions anyway. Why lose both money and Ukraine?

they cant. their location of population centres give them no choice.

[UlanBatori]

Tragic loss, the breakup of the SU. Otherwise Comrade Vlad could have sent vodka in huge consignments, carried by the gentle Islamists from Kazakhstan and Uzbekistan into western UkBapZistan, like Stalin did into East Germany and Berlin, 1945.
Make the ISIS look like saints. True, the UkBapZis need to consider what they are messing with. When reports of war casualties come back in Russia...

I was wondering why there was no direct vodka pipeline opened into East Ukraine, across from Kiev. But I hugely underestimated Comrade Vlad.

It looks like Comrade Vlad plans to first employ all those vacationing BeachBoyz on the southern coast to connect up Crimea with mainland Russia, then cut off the Dnieper River supply route to Kiev, then do a swift move up the east bank AND west bank of the river, cutting off the UkBapZis while another few convoys deliver 400% Hyoomaneaterian Relief from the north, coming south along the river and finishing the encirclement. UkBapZis in East Ukraine seem headed for the Niazi/Yahya Model of Victory.

The rising discord in the Kiev Maidan and "Parliament" is the other phenomenon that bears watching. I don't think Comrade Vlad is totally without supporters in WEST Ukraine, and the situation will become more interesting as the UkBapZis "lose contact" with more and more of their great Counter-Terrorist Invasion Force. The major UkBapZis, their BlackWater goons etc may be lining up to leave for Western Oirope.
The longer the Kiev regime keeps up the shelling and mass murder of civilians, the bigger the forces coming up the west bank of the river towards Kiev. The real Ukrainian "Civil" war may be fought deep inside West Ukraine.

[UlanBatori]

Just visiting Ukraine, Crimea etc. Fascinating. There seem to be only 4 bridges across the Dnieper, south of Kiev! Kiev has about 6 bridges.

So how exactly did the UkBapZis get into East Ukraine in such numbers? Maybe this is why we keep reading of Ukrainian "paratroopers". These guys have nowhere to go, except surrender and go into Russia. Comrade Vlad can just keep things going, it's September already, Gen. Winter's forces are not far off. Maybe 2 more weeks?

BTW, UkBapZis now about vodka deliveries just south/east of Luhansk. I don't who exactly was "firing into every house" but maybe the UkBapZis are running backwards.

And..

Ukraine also accused Russia on Saturday of helping to shoot down one of its combat aircraft ..in eastern Ukraine.

A statement by the Ukrainian government on the Facebook page for its military operations in the southeast said the Su-25 fighter was shot down on Friday, with the pilot ejecting safely. A missile from a Russian launcher struck the plane, it said, .. Colonel "Rashid Qureshi" Lies & Co., the military, spokesman also described low-level skirmishes scattered around the areas controlled by the separatists in southeastern Ukraine.

[Shanmukh]

I don't think Comrade Vlad is totally without supporters in WEST Ukraine, and the situation will become more interesting as the UkBapZis "lose contact" with more and more of their great Counter-Terrorist Invasion Force. The major UkBapZis, their BlackWater goons etc may be lining up to leave for Western Oirope.
The longer the Kiev regime keeps up the shelling and mass murder of civilians, the bigger the forces coming up the west bank of the river towards Kiev. The real Ukrainian "Civil" war may be fought deep inside West Ukraine.

There are only 5 districts of western Ukraine that can be really called Ukraine (Lviv, Ternopol, Volyn-Lutsk, Rivno, and Khmel). This is the only place where real Ukrainean is spoken. In 3 others (Kiev, Zhitomir, and Vinnitsa), the Ukrainean identity has been kinda sorta accepted, but even here many struggle to find the Ukrainean words actually, and are much more comfortable in Russian. From what I have heard, it was very rare to hear Ukrainean in Kiev until the 90s, but lots of UkBapZi-ish folks moved into Kiev in the 90s. These 8 districts will stick with the UkBapZis mainly because they want to join the EU (they are dreaming of lots of jobs and money from EU). When reality of Ukrainean debts to IMF hits home, and they share the fate of Greece, they may begin to have second thoughts about the EU. The rest have very mixed population. Some of the far western districts are really Hungary or Romania/Moldova, which were annexed after WW2 to Ukraine. In fact, in Uzhgorod on the Hungarian border, the majority is Ruthenians (Rusyns), and Hungarians, and traditionally votes along the same pattern as the Russian speaking eastern provinces. They don't like Ukrainean stuffed down their throats either. Similarly, Cherniev (Cernauti) in the south west is really Romania, and elections there are generally close affairs. Odessa is another far southern oblast with a very mixed population.

What is today eastern Ukraine is in reality Novorossiya, and was never part of Ukraine at any point in history until Lenin in the 1920s put them into Ukraine from an administrative point of view. Apart from Crimea, Kharkov, Lugansk, Dnepropetrovsk, and Donetsk are almost fully Russian.

[Philip]

A few parts of the UKR seem to be one of the last refuges of the Nazis,considering some historical facts.Stepan Bandera,etc.Which is why the neo-fascists of Europe want it to become an independent entity cutting all ties with Moscow.Putin's warning would be well heeded from these reports.

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world ... 99442.html
Ukraine crisis: Putin says Russia is 'ready to repel any aggression' and compares Ukrainian Government to Nazis

Vladimir Putin has said Russia is "ready to repel any aggression" after comparing Ukraine's military to the Nazi army.

Speaking to a youth camp outside Moscow on Friday, he said: "Russia is far from being involved in any large-scale conflicts.

"We don't want that and don't plan on it. But naturally, we should always be ready to repel any aggression towards Russia," he said, adding that it was "best not to mess with us [Russia]" and its nuclear-arsenal-backed armed forces.

"Thank God, I think no one is thinking of unleashing a large-scale conflict with Russia. I want to remind you that Russia is one of the leading nuclear powers."

His comments came as Nato released satellite images appearing to show Russian soldiers and tanks in a rebel-held area of eastern Ukraine.

The pictures were taken as confirmation of long-held suspicions by Western leaders that Russia is arming and directly working with separatists fighting the Ukrainian Government.

The President has frequently condemned Kiev's operation in eastern Ukraine, accusing it of "waging war against its own people".

He told the youth camp the battle against separatists in Donetsk and Luhansk was reminiscent of the Nazi's seige of Leningrad in the Second World War.

"Small villages and large cities surrounded by the Ukrainian army which is directly hitting residential areas with the aim of destroying the infrastructure," he said.

"It sadly reminds me the events of the Second World War, when German fascist occupants surrounded our cities."

Russian President Vladimir Putin said he believes Russians and Ukrainians are 'practically one people' An average 36 people are dying every day as the conflict continues to rage in eastern Ukraine, with both Government forces and rebels being accused of targeting civilians in a violation of international law.

The death toll has reached at least 2,593 people, including civilians killed in Government assaults on separatist-held areas, according to the United Nations.

A report issued by the Office of the High Commissioner for Human Rights (OHCHR) on Friday documented the deaths of people trapped in besieged cities and abuses including torture and abduction on both sides.

The UN High Commissioner for Human Rights, Navi Pillay, urged all parties to comply with the law.

“Deliberate targeting of civilians is a violation of international humanitarian law and more must be done to protect them,” she said.

“All those involved in the hostilities in the affected areas of the east must at all times comply with the principles of distinction, proportionality and precaution.

The body of a woman lies on the ground after a shelling in the main separatist stronghold Donetsk. Three bodies, identified by bystanders as members of the same family, were seen in a residential neighbourhood east of the city centre The body of a woman lies on the ground after a shelling in the main separatist stronghold Donetsk. Three bodies were identified by bystanders as members of the same family “This is particularly important in densely populated areas.

“There is an urgent need to end the fighting and violence in the eastern regions, before more civilians are harmed or forced to flee, or face intolerable hardships trapped inside the conflict zones.”

Intense fighting and shelling in densely-populated rebel strongholds has increased civilian casualties, the report said.
Read more: Nato images show Russian soldiers, artillery and armoured vehicles in eastern Ukraine
All eyes turn to Mariupol as separatist showdown looms
Separatists mark Ukrainian independence day by marching captured fighters through streets

In the period from 16 July to 17 August, it found people trapped in urban areas or trying to flee the fighting using supposedly “safe” corridors established by the Government were being killed and wounded.

Others have been prevented by armed groups from leaving the cities of Luhansk and Donetsk as Government forces tightened blockades in efforts to re-take control.

More than half the population of both cities have already fled but not enough was done to evacuate them, according to the report.

A man runs out of the destroyed building after shelling in Donetsk on 10 August A man runs out of the destroyed building after shelling in Donetsk on 10 August Those most vulnerable were institutionalised children, older people and those with disabilities and the evacuation of many children to safety in other parts of the country was blocked by armed groups.

Most human rights abuses documented were committed by armed rebel groups who seized control of swathes of eastern Ukraine in April.

There were reports of abductions involving physical and psychological torture, and detainees being subjected to forced labour.

At least 468 people were believed to be detained by various armed groups in mid-August, although the current figure is not known.

There have also been reports of human rights violations, such as arbitrary detention, enforced disappearances and torture committed by the Ukrainian territorial and special battalions.

The OHCHR said “more control” should be exercised over volunteer soldiers, in particular instructing them in international humanitarian law.

The Government has arrested more than 1,000 people in eastern Ukraine because of what it calls “irrefutable evidence of their participation in terrorist activities” but according to the report, procedural rights have not always been observed and there are reports of ill-treatment during arrest or while in custody.

More than 1,500 cases of alleged offences committed by local officials and citizens in the east have already been investigated by Ukrainian authorities and more than 150 people have been prosecuted.
Video: Ukraine brings back conscription

Three laws approved by the Government to significantly expand the powers of law enforcement bodies “appear to be in conflict with international human rights norms and standards”, the report said.

“Justice and accountability must replace impunity for major human rights violations that have occurred over the past four months,” the Ms Pillay said.

“And justice must be applied to all. It is essential that the Government takes firm action to prevent reprisals and all other forms of unlawful retribution.

“The application of the rule of law must be meticulous, and in full accord with international standards, if public confidence in state institutions is to be restored.”

http://rt.com/news/183864-ukraine-europ ... -fighting/
‘United Continent’: European volunteers fighting Kiev troops in Eastern Ukraine
Published time: August 30, 2014 Published time: August 30, 2014

European volunteers are streaming into Ukraine to join the fighting on both sides. While Kiev’s forces are beefed up with mercenaries from private military companies, Europeans have also come to defend the rebel Donbass region of their own free will.

One of the latest reinforcements of anti-Kiev troops in Eastern Ukraine are four French ex-serviceman who have come to fight this war, thousands of kilometers from home.

“It’s our war. It’s everybody’s war, it’s every European’s war,” Guillaume, a French fighter in Ukraine defending the Donbass region, told RT’s Paula Slier.

French fighter Guillaume. Screenshot from RT video

Another volunteer, 25-year-old Nikola, used to be a professional soldier with the elite French mountain troops for five years. Now he’s putting his skills to good use in Ukraine. Alongside a contingent of other foreign volunteers, he’s training anti-Kiev forces in urban guerilla warfare.

“These are people’s militias, these are not mercenaries or professional soldiers, so they need instruction,” Nikola told RT.

“They really have the motivation, whereas the Kiev army, which is a kind of puppet of NATO, they don’t have any motivation whatsoever,” Nikola said. “We have seen them before. They are very much unmotivated and they do not really know why they are fighting, and against whom they are fighting, so that is our main strength.”

French fighter Nikola. Screenshot from RT video

The French volunteer explained that the presence of European volunteers among Ukraine’s rebels carrying out what they call “a military operation for protecting civilians” in the country’s east is symbolic.

“For many of these people from the west, it's their first time to come and defend what is considered by western governments a bad cause, or the bad guys’ cause. So it’s very important to show that people from the west are distinct from their governments and they are ready to come and fight and risk their lives to defend another world,” Nikola said.

And more and more overseas fighters are signing up and joining the anti-Kiev troops.

RT’s Paula Slier found out that volunteers are coming to the Donetsk frontline not just from France, but also from Spain, Poland, Israel and the United Kingdom.

Aleksey Mozgovoy, the commander of ‘Prizrak’ (Ghost) brigade from the Lugansk Region said in an interview to the MK.ru news outlet that in his 1,000-strong battalion there are fighters from Bulgaria, Slovakia and Germany.

One of the largest international forces fighting against Kiev’s troops is a unit of volunteers from Serbia, according to the interview. The ‘Jovan Shevich’ squadron allegedly consists of 250 fighters and is actively operating in the Lugansk Region.

Milutin Malisic, a member of a Serbian Chetnik paramilitary group. (Reuters / Thomas Peter)

Earlier this week, the Chairman of the Council of Ministers of the Donetsk People’s Republic, Aleksandr Zakharchenko, revealed in an interview to Russian media that up to 4,000 Russian citizens, many of them ex-servicemen, have joined anti-government fighters during Kiev’s crackdown in Ukraine’s east.

“Without them, it would hard for us to go on with our fighting,” Zakharchenko said, stressing that at the moment many of Russian citizens have already returned back home.

The latest developments in the warfare in Eastern Ukraine, where up to 7,000 Ukrainian troops and National Guards units have been entrapped in three separate encirclements, give hope to the rebel forces.

“We believe that the Ukrainian army will not be able to last until winter or even fall, because each day that goes by they lose money, they lose motivation, they lose manpower, they lose ammo. So each day that goes by, they grow weaker, while we grow stronger,” French fighter Guillaume told RT.

Europe now finds itself between a rock and a hard place: What to do as more of its young men sign up to fight against its ally?

“Legally, we do not see what the French government can do to us because first of all, we are not paid, so we’re not mercenaries, we’re not terrorists, we’re not jihadists, and of course it’s a mission of information, it’s a political mission, it’s a mission of soft power,” Victor Lenfa, Commander of the French team in Ukraine, told RT.

Commander of the French team in Ukraine Victor Lenfa. Screenshot from RT video

And this mission is growing stronger as a brigade of Western volunteers is now being put together under the name “United Continent.”
Foreign mercenaries in Kiev’s service

After the UN Security Council on Thursday blocked Russia’s statement calling for a ceasefire in Eastern Ukraine under a completely frivolous pretext, Russia's envoy to the UN Vitaly Churkin had a heated debate with colleagues from the US and Ukraine, who again accused Russia of a full-scale invasion as a large number of Russian volunteers are fighting in Ukraine.

Vitaly Churkin fired back, saying that nobody ever tried to hide the presence of Russian volunteers, urging Washington to acknowledge the presence of US advisers in Kiev and why mercenaries from private military companies are waging war in Ukraine.

“Maybe our American colleagues can tell us what tens of American advisers are busy with in the headquarters of National Security and Defense Council of Ukraine [in Kiev]? Let them tell us how many American mercenaries from the so-called “security provider” companies are fighting [in Ukraine], thousands of kilometers from their home ground?” demanded Churkin, not forgetting to mention first-rate US-made armaments observed in Ukrainian units.

Exactly one month ago, Russia’s Rossyiskaya Gazeta daily quoted Igor Strelkov, the former Defense Minister of the self-proclaimed Donetsk People’s Republic, who claimed that as of the end of July, self-defense militia had eliminated up to 330 mercenaries representing a number of foreign private military companies.

Strelkov specified the casualties from each of them, saying that Polish private military company ASBS (Analizy Systemowe Bartlomiej Sienkiewicz) Othago lost 139 mercenaries, American Greystone Ltd, a subsidiary of Vehicle Services Company LLC belonging to Blackwater/XE/Academi, lost 40 fighters, while Academi itself lost 125 personnel.

[member_20317]

There's a chance for the Putin. Hunt down these mercenary blackwater types and send them back home in a condition that further riles these Nato minions and the Baptists. Draw these mercenary mind keedas into the war and make a spectacle of it in January.

In fact Putin should have this declared through his own minions that these mercenaries have come to hurt our people and it would be justifiable that their people in turn get education to understand what is happening in Ukraine.

These people have used mercenary armies earlier to destroy civilizations and at some point there has to be education to put a stop to this.

................

Yes I realised my mistake and edited accordingly. Thanks.

[svenkat]

ravi_g ji,
But the frenchmen and others like them are the good taliban(from the russian pov).The blackwater types are the bad taliban(from the russian view)

[JE Menon]

Welcome to the real Europe...boys are getting a taste for blood, in the old style - pre WW1 the interval after...

EU leadership stupidity beyond comprehension. And total lack of moral principle in American action.

Hunker down, consolidate, grow steadily and incrementally. Don't make waves. Keep powder dry and stay ready to inflict extreme violence.

[Austin]

"...it's better not to mess with us"

Wow! Even a thick headed Neanderthal would be able to understand this simple message. Putin realize that you have to forget subtlety when dealing with knuckleheads.

Maybe one day an Indian Leader will be able to talk like tough guy Putin when dealing with all the constant attacks and infiltration on India's Land.

Thats the way the Western Media Twists the story.

He went to an annual Youth event and there was a Q&A session between Russian Youth and Putin when the Question came up , he said like we are a Nuclear Superpower but we would use it for our own defence and not to threaten any one and no one should mess with us no matter what their foreign policy is.

Most western media did not put it that way and just gave it a more sexed up Headline without the context.

[Austin]

Putin: Impossible to say when political crisis in Ukraine will end

Russian President Vladimir Putin has called on Kiev to start substantial talks on deescalating the crisis in eastern Ukraine. He added that it’s an illusion to expect that the rebels would calmly watch their homes being destroyed.

“We have agreed on a plan, so its realization must be pursued,” Putin told Channel 1 TV, adding that the Ukrainian government “must immediately start substantial talks – not a technical discussion – on the political organization of society and the state in southeast Ukraine so that the interests of people who live there are protected.”

The plan, according to Russia's leader, puts negotiations at the center of the peace process. In a clear reference to the toppling of Viktor Yanukovich by the Maidan movement in February, Putin said that mistakes such as a power takeover should be avoided and called it the main cause of today's crisis.

The Russian president called on Kiev to consider the upcoming autumn and winter period and think about the heating season. The devastated infrastructure of the southeast requires full repair otherwise people might just freeze to death, he said.

“It looks as if only Russia cares about that. The first most essential condition is to stop combat operations and begin reconstruction of the infrastructure, replenish inventories, do the necessary repairs and scheduled maintenance to be ready for the cold season.”

Putin said that, while the resolution of the crisis now mostly depends on Kiev, it is impossible to say when it may end. He said it could be explained by the upcoming Ukrainian parliamentary elections. Ukrainian President Petro Poroshenko dismissed the country’s parliament on August 25 and called parliamentary elections for October 26.

“All the participants in the electoral race will want to show how cool they are,” Putin said. “Everyone will want to show they are strongmen or strongwomen, and as the political struggle sharpens it is hard to expect anyone to seek a peaceful resolution and not a military one.”

At the same time, it is an illusion that the rebels would sit and patiently wait for the promised talks to start, Putin said, especially when they see “cities and towns in southeast Ukraine shelled to the ground with direct fire.”

'Kiev used ceasefire to bring in more troops'

The Russian leader accused the Ukrainian military of reorganizing their forces during the ceasefire in humanitarian corridors granted by eastern self-defense militia to the trapped Ukrainian troops.

[The Ukrainian military] “used this pause to bring more troops and attempt to break the entrapments by force and lead their troops out,” said president, pointing out that such actions created distrust and led to extensive fatalities.

In the 10 days of August self-defense militia trapped four large groups of Ukrainian troops, estimated at 7,000 personnel and hundreds of military vehicles.

President Putin called for self-defense militias in Ukraine to provide Kiev's military units blocked in the east of the country with a safe humanitarian corridor to leave the combat area and “reunite with their families.”

The trapped Ukrainian troops were told to disarm and leave through the humanitarian corridors without their military hardware.

Kiev authorities never gave a definite answer to the initiative, however, and ordered their troops to break out by force. That explains the latest reports about a very limited number of Ukrainian servicemen surrendering, while the rest must have perished in suicidal attempts to break out.


'EU might find it hard to return to Russian market'

Commenting on the new batch of sanctions against Russia threatened by western countries, Putin advised his counterparts to think again about what they are advocating.

“What are the so-called European values then? Support for an armed coup, suppression of opponents with armed forces – so these are ‘European values’? I believe our colleagues should be reminded of their own ideals,” the president said.

As for the countermeasures Russia has taken, imposing a ban on certain food imports from the US, EU and several other countries, Putin believes the sanctioned European countries might find it hard to return to the Russian market. He expects new importers from Latin America, China and Russia’s eastern neighbors to secure the market during the year, and then it would "very difficult, almost impossible to budge them."

[Austin]

Gazprom to sell gas to Kyrgyz consumers at $165 per 1000 cubic metres - Kyrgyz president

Kyrgyz is in the process of joining Custom Union by December this year so get $165 per 1000 cubic meter.

Compare that with West get an average price of $380 per 1000 cubic m
China long term 30 years gas deal is priced at around ~ $350-360 per 1000 cubic m
Ukraian is asked to pay European price.

[Austin]

Ukraine, A U.S.- Russia Proxy War

Thom Hartmann talks with Stephen Cohen, Contributing Editor-The Nation / Professor Emeritus of Russian Studies & Politics at NYU and Princeton Website: www.thenation.com, for his latest analysis on the situation in Ukraine.

[Austin]

CNN: Cohen: 'Deep in a new Cold War'

Stephen Cohen joins Jonathan Sanders and Philip Mudd to discuss US-Russia relations as tensions rise in Ukraine

[vijaykarthik]

We always wondered what the 'aid' was for and why the sudden move was done. Well, this is the UKR allegation.

http://www.euronews.com/2014/08/23/ukra ... equipment/

Job done, one hundred and eighty-four Russian trucks from an aid convoy that entered Ukraine yesterday have re-crossed the border back into Russia.

Ukraine says another eighty trucks remain in the country. The OSCE says they have all left.

Russia says the lorries were only carrying vital humanitarian supplies for the besieged cities of Luhansk and Donetsk, but many entered Ukraine empty. Kyiv refused permission for the convoy, believing it was a subterfuge for re-arming pro-Russian rebels, but then allowed it to proceed without interference. Now the government says it knows why there were so many empty lorries, and its suspicions have been confirmed.

“Our operational information tells us the trucks that came into Ukraine pretending to be a humanitarian convoy were used to load the “Topaz” production unit for the ultra-modern “Kolchuga” radar, and equipment from a factory in Luhansk that makes specialised ammunition magazines,” said the National Security and Defence Council spokesman Andriy Lysenko.

Ukraine is home to many high-tech plants vital for Russia’s space, missile, defence and aeronautics industries. Indeed many companies continue to do business with Russia despite the war raging in the east, and management loyalties are often divided between Moscow and Kyiv.

[vijaykarthik]

Interesting perspective from the American interest:

http://www.the-american-interest.com/sh ... terregnum/

I find it shameful that otherwise sensible people either a. tilt at windmills b. make illogical arguments c. make an argument from a very biased perspective and make it an atomic indivisible my way or highway kind of argument d. deliberately mislead.

Pretty shocking. Though I don't accept with her totally, its still a good read... if not for anything else, to give people an idea of how quasi pseudo American (?) intellectuals look at this conflict.

[JE Menon]

^^it is an analytically worthless diatribe.

[KLNMurthy]

Interesting perspective from the American interest:

http://www.the-american-interest.com/sh ... terregnum/

I find it shameful that otherwise sensible people either a. tilt at windmills b. make illogical arguments c. make an argument from a very biased perspective and make it an atomic indivisible my way or highway kind of argument d. deliberately mislead.

Pretty shocking. Though I don't accept with her totally, its still a good read... if not for anything else, to give people an idea of how quasi pseudo American (?) intellectuals look at this conflict.

It reads like standard-issue cold war propaganda. Here is the "money shot" or the recommendation of the author:

The West needs to return to its mission and core values in order to respond to Putin’s Russia, but doing so calls for taking stock of the mistakes and dashed hopes of the past. It requires an overhaul of long-standing and ostensibly immutable institutions and principles, including: the European security system (particularly as it pertains to energy security); issues involving democratic transitions, war and peace, and global government and responsibility; and the role of the normative dimension in foreign policy.

Can someone knowledgeable explain what this writer is asking the West to do, exactly? It sounds like propaganda code for something, a coyly-worded signal to those that are already masters of the cold-war vocabulary and grammar. For my part, I can't make out what the heck it actually means. Is it just a call to arms for a new Cold War, or something else?

[chanakyaa]

The true motives of Oeiropian (so called) international institutions..

http://en.itar-tass.com/economy/747458

Rosneft Pres says Hague tribunal might pass ruling on Yukos under pressure

<snip>
Permanent Court of Arbitration in The Hague might pass its ruling on repayment of $ 50 billion by Russia to the former shareholders of the now defunct oil corporation Yukos under political pressure, Igor Sechin, the president of the Russian oil industry major Rosneft said in an interview published by Der Spiegel magazine...
</snip>

[Shanmukh]

Can someone knowledgeable explain what this writer is asking the West to do, exactly? It sounds like propaganda code for something, a coyly-worded signal to those that are already masters of the cold-war vocabulary and grammar. For my part, I can't make out what the heck it actually means. Is it just a call to arms for a new Cold War, or something else?

JMT, so take it as you will. Also, this is just based on my understanding of Russia.

There are really two kinds of nationalists in Russia. There is the российские националисты (Russian state nationalists). This bunch see the identity of Russia in the Russian state. Everyone who lives in Russia and will speak Russian (learn Russian, if necessary) is a Russian. They are indifferent to ethnicities, native languages, etc. They just would like for their population to be loyal to the Russian state, and speak Russian to a passable extent. Some of them take it further, and are really славянские националисты (Slavic nationalists), who would like to unite all the Slavs under one aegis (that of Russia, of course). This was the thrust of Russia under the Tsars until the end of WW1. But lurking beneath the surface is a second kind of nationalism. These are the русские националисты (Russian ethnic nationalists). This bunch sees the identity of Russia in terms of ethnicity. This bunch is not interested in anything beyond the Russian border or actual ethnic Russians. This bunch was what ruled the roost and framed the policies in the 90s. In fact, the break up of the Soviet Union was as much a victory of the Russian ethnic nationalism as the victory of the US in bankrupting USSR, and the revolts of the minorities of former Soviet Union. The debacle of Afghanistan and the rise of the separatist minorities led to a widespread dejection that the non-ethnic Russians could not be trusted, and that Russia was better off without these undependable minorities. In fact, if you read the Russian press, there were a whole lot of articles peddling these views in the late 80s and early 90s. The funny thing is the two types of nationalists are not completely different people. It seems to be a side of all (or most) Russian nationalists - you will find this when you speak to Russian nationalists. Both sides exist in the same people, and based on circumstances and events, the one side or the other will rise to the fore. The same person will one day support a Greater Russia, and on another, when things are going bad, will support an ethnic Russian state.

From the Russian ethnic nationalists point of view, they would like for nothing more than to leave Ukraine to the Devil, and the Russian speakers of новороссия (Novorossiya - Eastern Ukraine, today) to shift for themselves. The problem for the ethnic nationalists is that very little of the actual population of Novorossiya is actually Russian in ethnic terms. There are a whole variety of ethnicities there. There are many Russian ethnic nationalists who even advocate expelling the Caucasians and giving them their own countries in the Caucasus-Caspian region, and some even take it to Tartarian republics in the Kazan and southern Urals.

From what I can read of the author, she is hinting that a defeat of the Russians in Ukraine will trigger another wave of xenophobia and ethnic nationalism, leading to the fall of Putin, and his replacement by a ethnic Russian nationalist leader, under whose influence the US can rip out more new countries of Russia and leave them open for plunder. In particular, breaking the Russian hold completely on the Caucasus is a long held dream of many American Russia-foreign policy thinkers. Brzezhinsky was one who had openly articulated these views in the early 80s. Russia must be broken up until she can no longer stand as a powerful country in her own right.

[UlanBatori]

Why don't the Russians push straight to the Dnieper and threaten Kiev outright? Will that bring a heavy NATO presence into west Ukraine?

Russia needs to remind US of the Monroe Doctrine and impose her own equivalent: no meddling in states bordering Russia.

[Austin]

Why don't the Russians push straight to the Dnieper and threaten Kiev outright? Will that bring a heavy NATO presence into west Ukraine?

Russia needs to remind US of the Monroe Doctrine and impose her own equivalent: no meddling in states bordering Russia.

Why are you keen for a Cuban Missile Like Crisis or WW3 type scenario

Even Russian are not asking for Independence or Statehood for East but more Federal Structure.

[Austin]

Some one in US government is more sane here

US Senator calls for direct discussions with Putin over Ukraine

NEW YORK, August 31,/ITAR-TASS/. U.S. Administration ought to have direct discussions with President Vladimir Putin over the crisis in Ukraine, as sanctions will unlikely have any serious effect on the Russian people, given their resolve and ability to withstand hardships, Senator Dianne Feinstein, the chairwoman of the Senate Intelligence Committee said Sunday.

“I think there are to be some direct discussions with Vladimir Putin,” she said in an interview aired by NBC television.

Sen. Feinstein called Putin “singular figure in Russia,” adding that Russia is a huge country. “Ukraine is a large country and the Crimea is gone,” she added.

“I think there ought to be steps taken to send people to talk with him, to have our Secretary of

State (John Kerry) talk with him personally,” Sen. Feinstein said.

She indicated that Putin enjoyed what she described as “intensely high favorability in his country.”

“People say, well, just wait till the sanctions bite and the economy slips,” Sen. Feinstein said. “I don’t think so.”

She stressed the fact the Russians were following their President. “ up to date they are following him. The Russians are very brave and very long-suffering and they will tough out any economic difficulty.”

In the light of it, she said she was not sure about the possible impact of the sanctions imposed on Russia by the U.S. and the EU.

“I’m not sure they will work,” Sen. Feinstein said. “I’m not sure this will shake the people that much. And it’s the people that have to be spoken to and it’s the solitary leader, Vladimir Putin, who has to be spoken to.

[Shreeman]

Some one in US government is more sane here

US Senator calls for direct discussions with Putin over Ukraine

NEW YORK, August 31,/ITAR-TASS/. U.S. Administration ought to have direct discussions with President Vladimir Putin over the crisis in Ukraine, as sanctions will unlikely have any serious effect on the Russian people, given their resolve and ability to withstand hardships, Senator Dianne Feinstein, the chairwoman of the Senate Intelligence Committee said Sunday.

“I think there are to be some direct discussions with Vladimir Putin,” she said in an interview aired by NBC television.

Sen. Feinstein called Putin “singular figure in Russia,” adding that Russia is a huge country. “Ukraine is a large country and the Crimea is gone,” she added.

“I think there ought to be steps taken to send people to talk with him, to have our Secretary of

State (John Kerry) talk with him personally,” Sen. Feinstein said.

She indicated that Putin enjoyed what she described as “intensely high favorability in his country.”

“People say, well, just wait till the sanctions bite and the economy slips,” Sen. Feinstein said. “I don’t think so.”

She stressed the fact the Russians were following their President. “ up to date they are following him. The Russians are very brave and very long-suffering and they will tough out any economic difficulty.”

In the light of it, she said she was not sure about the possible impact of the sanctions imposed on Russia by the U.S. and the EU.

“I’m not sure they will work,” Sen. Feinstein said. “I’m not sure this will shake the people that much. And it’s the people that have to be spoken to and it’s the solitary leader, Vladimir Putin, who has to be spoken to.

The elderly senator from california is not very well liked (even by her constituents) and rarely, if ever, noted for high intellect. She is putting forth talking points. Now why these talking points, over the rest of the media, is the question to ask. (edit: I see ITAR/TASS, missed that in the first read. Carry on)

Ukraine is a sad situation, but at least for the moment, the clouds are only darkening.

On the positive side, there is one less cheap ex-soviet hardware peddler for the foreseeable future. And you know where they were pushing their tank engines, and IL-78s, not to mention minor arms.

This conflagaration (along with the ISIL fight) will change future budgets in a lot of places. Interesting times.

[vijaykarthik]

Can someone knowledgeable explain what this writer is asking the West to do, exactly? It sounds like propaganda code for something, a coyly-worded signal to those that are already masters of the cold-war vocabulary and grammar. For my part, I can't make out what the heck it actually means. Is it just a call to arms for a new Cold War, or something else?

JMT, so take it as you will. Also, this is just based on my understanding of Russia.

There are really two kinds of nationalists in Russia. There is the российские националисты (Russian state nationalists). This bunch see the identity of Russia in the Russian state. Everyone who lives in Russia and will speak Russian (learn Russian, if necessary) is a Russian. They are indifferent to ethnicities, native languages, etc. They just would like for their population to be loyal to the Russian state, and speak Russian to a passable extent. Some of them take it further, and are really славянские националисты (Slavic nationalists), who would like to unite all the Slavs under one aegis (that of Russia, of course). This was the thrust of Russia under the Tsars until the end of WW1. But lurking beneath the surface is a second kind of nationalism. These are the русские националисты (Russian ethnic nationalists). This bunch sees the identity of Russia in terms of ethnicity. This bunch is not interested in anything beyond the Russian border or actual ethnic Russians. This bunch was what ruled the roost and framed the policies in the 90s. In fact, the break up of the Soviet Union was as much a victory of the Russian ethnic nationalism as the victory of the US in bankrupting USSR, and the revolts of the minorities of former Soviet Union. The debacle of Afghanistan and the rise of the separatist minorities led to a widespread dejection that the non-ethnic Russians could not be trusted, and that Russia was better off without these undependable minorities. In fact, if you read the Russian press, there were a whole lot of articles peddling these views in the late 80s and early 90s. The funny thing is the two types of nationalists are not completely different people. It seems to be a side of all (or most) Russian nationalists - you will find this when you speak to Russian nationalists. Both sides exist in the same people, and based on circumstances and events, the one side or the other will rise to the fore. The same person will one day support a Greater Russia, and on another, when things are going bad, will support an ethnic Russian state.

From the Russian ethnic nationalists point of view, they would like for nothing more than to leave Ukraine to the Devil, and the Russian speakers of новороссия (Novorossiya - Eastern Ukraine, today) to shift for themselves. The problem for the ethnic nationalists is that very little of the actual population of Novorossiya is actually Russian in ethnic terms. There are a whole variety of ethnicities there. There are many Russian ethnic nationalists who even advocate expelling the Caucasians and giving them their own countries in the Caucasus-Caspian region, and some even take it to Tartarian republics in the Kazan and southern Urals.

From what I can read of the author, she is hinting that a defeat of the Russians in Ukraine will trigger another wave of xenophobia and ethnic nationalism, leading to the fall of Putin, and his replacement by a ethnic Russian nationalist leader, under whose influence the US can rip out more new countries of Russia and leave them open for plunder. In particular, breaking the Russian hold completely on the Caucasus is a long held dream of many American Russia-foreign policy thinkers. Brzezhinsky was one who had openly articulated these views in the early 80s. Russia must be broken up until she can no longer stand as a powerful country in her own right.

Interesting that you mention this. I saw something remarkably similar a few days back. But in English though. One term was the novorussiya and the other was something else. And the article went on to remark that Putin all the while was a guy who was a Russian nationalist who didn't totally fall for the Russia for ethinc Russians alone [predominantly Slav]. However when the analysts heard him use the other term that I don't quite remember now [which is basically Russia for the ethnic Russians alone] term, a few speculated that he is perhaps having a shift in doctrine.

However, the article also mentioned it with a pinch of salt and mentioned that even that other term can be meant to mean Russia for all.

I will check if I can get a link to that article. I read so much and sometimes cant quite get the link when I really want it. Damn it.

[Austin]

On the positive side, there is one less cheap ex-soviet hardware peddler for the foreseeable future. And you know where they were pushing their tank engines, and IL-78s, not to mention minor arms.

Ukraine is not in a state of war so they wont loose their military market except that there would be lull for some time due to current and financial situation.

BTW it seems Ukraine is using all the financial assistance it got from IMF on its military.

[Shreeman]

On the positive side, there is one less cheap ex-soviet hardware peddler for the foreseeable future. And you know where they were pushing their tank engines, and IL-78s, not to mention minor arms.

Ukraine is not in a state of war so they wont loose their military market except that there would be lull for some time due to current and financial situation.

BTW it seems Ukraine is using all the financial assistance it got from IMF on its military.

This is surely not about losing a market, rather production being limited/interrupted and finding other needs and uses.

The stock that was being refurbished is depleting (did you know mariupol houses a large chunk of psuedo flyable il-xx?). Once the "reserves" are gone -- be it frackable gas or stored soviet hardware -- ukraine is of no great interest to anyone but russia. production from scratch is not really ukraine's nicye.

BTW europe already has poland for all possible current and future labor needs, and russia sure cant afford ukraine. This is where the death of the media hurts. There is no debate/data on *where* the war is, what the stakes are, or who it is costing and what. The propaganda and hoohaa of sanctions doesnt count two bits in the bigger picture.

No one is saying what the end game is here. Its not a georgia-style operation. Europe's response is not unlike georgia for now, but stakes are very different for russia. How will things look at the end here for any market to be served and by whom?

[Singha]

afaik Ilyushin is a russian concern while Antonov is pure play Ukraine down to its founder.

so Ukraine can certainly design and market original new designs, apart from servicing old ones. An32 next gen is possible. An70 design was sold to china. AN124T could be produced. they have two big concerns for the crown jewels Ivchenko-Progress-Lotarev and Motor-Sich.

All the antonov products use ukrainian made engines. they are way ahead of india in any form of aerospace/engine tech having under their belt decades of large scale design and production.

the one aspect which Russia is probably scared of is Motor Sich produces the VK2500(mi17) and the TV3-117(Kamov) and D136(Mi26)...they usually work with salyut-saturn so maybe parts are produced in both countries and someone does final assembly or final assembly is done in both places...no sure who has how much exposure on this.

we have a huge fleet of Mi17, and some Mi35 and Kamovs....would be interesting to know who services those engines and where. also, our an32 upg deal was going along swiftly at antonov plant before yellow matter hit fan there...no word on this lately.

[Austin]

I think for Russia the support for East Ukranian is not about Market or Economy but more about not letting its own people get slaughtered by Ukraine under the watchfull eye of Phree Western loving democracy.

If Russia was really so concerned about the Market or Economy it wouldnt have taken Crimea or supported the Seps in East and wouldnt have taken panga with might of US and EU combined.

After all what good is your economy or might of your Military if you see your own people get slaughtered but would close your eyes and look other way , such nations can never be great nations but a compromising ones.

The other reason is more Geo-Strategic , IF now NATO expands it is clear to all that there would be War in Europe Period

I think since 1991 till now the Russian leadership has realised that being in good books of EU or US does not bring much good and can only come at the cost of its national interest. So having a negitive or neutral relation wont be bad of them.

Atlease with Russia as enemy NATO would be very careful how it moves ahead.

In life as in with countries Friendship is sometimes taken for Granted and Enemy is Respected.

Russia must have realised after the coup supported by West that its friendship and its interest is taken for granted.

[Shanmukh]

Character assassination of Merkel has begun. She is being portrayed as a sellout to Russia, a traitor who is acting for Russian best interests, not for West's.

Strobe Talbott @strobetalbott · 11h

Photo said to be of Merkel as GDR Komsomol leader during a military drill in summer of '72. http://goo.gl/uGHxz8

http://preslav-67.livejournal.com/814253.html

[Austin]

^^^ Amusing but was expected , Talbott is one of the war mongering Neocon in US.

After all the years of Tapping Phone of Merkel would be put to good effect by US Intel

[Shanmukh]

My question is - will NATO fracture? NATO has no purpose today, as far as Europe is concerned. Will Germany, and others exit the NATO since it has served its purpose? Or is the German elite simply too US-pasand?

@Austin-ji,
There was a long article a few years back that US could afford to do what it wanted as far as Russia was concerned, because Russia had no good options to retaliate against the US and EU. The idea was that, while the Russian economic interests are intertwined with Europe, the US should go as far as possible in undermining Russian security interests. There were calls for arming the Ingush, Dagestanis, Chechens, all the other assorted Islamists of Caspian-Caucasian region. Will try to find and post that article.

[Pratyush]

Interesting, that a picture that is nearly 42 years old is now being used to attack the current head of the German govt. Does that mean, that Germany will not go along with the US / UQ combine, when it comes to waging war against the Russians.

What will be the french position. Will they go along with the US / UQ combine?