Indo-UK News and Discussion - April 2013

[Pratyush]

^^^

What BS, the holy book clearly says that the sins of the father will be visited on the children for how many generations?

The nation as a whole deserves what's coming its way. To think that these scum have the guts to meddle in India and publish reports about the abuse of the vulnerable in our nation. They should first put their own house in order.

[vishvak]

>>I believe it goes further than official statistics and also reflects perceptions

True eklavya, ordinary folk have spent enough time to differentiate, but the media still keeps pressing the "Asians" line. Eventually though it may be counter-productive. People will dig deeper into who these "Asians" are, they will discover and that in turn will create an even deeper conviction that Pakistanis are, almost by definition, the scum of the earth - at least as far as attitudes are concerned in the UK.

Such propaganda("Asian" gangs though not one Hindu/Sikh/Buddhist involved) should not come in the way of Hindus getting networked in UK. There is cost of direct abuse to few Hindus targeted explicitly. Nothing should stop us from being well organized so that no one feels at edges of society. English won't stop propaganda- that is for sure and pakis will feed Brits stories of empire.

[Hari Seldon]

UKstan plotted to leave India a bleeding mess - scores of small 'kingdoms' with volatile religious mixtures perennially fighting each other ...and thereby having to rely on Whitehall's good o(ri)ffices to get by.. wherein the briturds could yet again milk profits outta our land. chweet scheme no?

Hoga yeh ki it'll be the oiro continent that'll endup as a mixture of scores of no-go versus civilized zones fighting a cancer that's inside the fortress walls...

And yup, the oiros will awaken for sure. Count on 'em Olafs and Ivans and Vons and McKs to fight back with full vigor once things have gone too far.... but it may well be too late by then who knows.

At least we'll have some (comic) relief from the pipsqueak Nordic types lecturing us on hyooman rites and what not from some UNstani bully pulpits, eh?

[member_28638]

What is happening to the UK that has looted and thieved their way throughout their 500 years entire history?

What has happened to all the wealth that they sucked from India, causing it to go from being the richest nation on Earth to one of the poorest by the time they left?

=====================

‘Britain's GDP per capita lower than poorest US states’

Aug 27, 2014

The GDP per capita of the entire Britain is lower than those of the poorest US states, says a journalist.

Editor of UK-based Current Affair MagazineFraser Nelson said on The Spectator show on Tuesday that if you were to take GDP per a US state, divide it by population, and compare it with the latest data from the UK Treasury, Britain would fall behind the poorest US states of Kansas, Alabama and Missouri.

According to Nelson, based on the US average, only Mississippi comes out poorer than the UK until Purchasing Power Parity (PPP) is added into the equation. When spending power is taken into account, based on how much can be bought with $100 in the UK and each US state, Britain’s PPP-adjusted GDP per capita falls to last place in the ranking.

The figures come as a surprise to those who compare the level of conspicuous poverty in the US against the financial preeminence of London, recently named by Forbes as “The World’s Most Influential City” for its abundance of foreign direct investment deals.

Meanwhile, UK charity group Oxfam reports that the combined fortunes of Britain’s five richest families are worth more than the poorest 20 percent of the population. It calculated that Britain’s five richest families have a fortune of $46.9 billion, more than the $46.7 billion shared between the poorest 20 percent of the UK population.

Over the past two decades, the richest 0.1 percent of the UK population has seen its wealth grow almost four times faster than 90 percent of the population.

At the other end of the spectrum, food poverty has climbed to such an extent that malnutrition is fast becoming more common in the UK, with a 19-percent increase in the number of citizens hospitalized for malnutrition over the past 12 months.

Britain’s Faculty of Public Health has linked the growing trend to people’s inability to afford quality food.

[vishvak]

British PM plans to stop British jihadis returning
link

Islamic State's 'banker' was director of a private Muslim primary school in Birmingham
link
Many such schools are funded by the state, but that doesn't matter it seems.

[svenkat]

from vishvakjis link

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2738822/We-passports-Cameron-unveil-draconian-plans-stop-British-jihadis-returning-UK.html

The draconian measures of poodledom is a blow against freedom,liberty,human rights of British subjects who are being profiled on account of their religion.Poodledom deserves severest condemnation for violation of western 'values' and for the severe restrictions on mohammedans for the misdeeds of a few co-religionists.Mohammedans should be given full freedom to return to poodledom and fight the righteous jihad in londonistan.

[member_28714]

What is happening to the UK that has looted and thieved their way throughout their 500 years entire history?

What has happened to all the wealth that they sucked from India, causing it to go from being the richest nation on Earth to one of the poorest by the time they left?

=====================

‘Britain's GDP per capita lower than poorest US states’

Aug 27, 2014

The GDP per capita of the entire Britain is lower than those of the poorest US states, says a journalist.

Editor of UK-based Current Affair MagazineFraser Nelson said on The Spectator show on Tuesday that if you were to take GDP per a US state, divide it by population, and compare it with the latest data from the UK Treasury, Britain would fall behind the poorest US states of Kansas, Alabama and Missouri.

According to Nelson, based on the US average, only Mississippi comes out poorer than the UK until Purchasing Power Parity (PPP) is added into the equation. When spending power is taken into account, based on how much can be bought with $100 in the UK and each US state, Britain’s PPP-adjusted GDP per capita falls to last place in the ranking.

The figures come as a surprise to those who compare the level of conspicuous poverty in the US against the financial preeminence of London, recently named by Forbes as “The World’s Most Influential City” for its abundance of foreign direct investment deals.

Meanwhile, UK charity group Oxfam reports that the combined fortunes of Britain’s five richest families are worth more than the poorest 20 percent of the population. It calculated that Britain’s five richest families have a fortune of $46.9 billion, more than the $46.7 billion shared between the poorest 20 percent of the UK population.

Over the past two decades, the richest 0.1 percent of the UK population has seen its wealth grow almost four times faster than 90 percent of the population.

At the other end of the spectrum, food poverty has climbed to such an extent that malnutrition is fast becoming more common in the UK, with a 19-percent increase in the number of citizens hospitalized for malnutrition over the past 12 months.

Britain’s Faculty of Public Health has linked the growing trend to people’s inability to afford quality food.

A subtle way of saying Britannia will soon become a full fledged US state.

[anupmisra]

UK Special Forces Move Into London As Govt Fears 'Mumbai-Style' Terrorist Spectacular

London could be the scene of a Mumbai-style terrorist "spectacular" if Islamist jihadists get their way, British security chiefs have warned. There is growing concern that a list of "soft" targets is being drawn up, and that weapons and explosives have already been smuggled into the country.

The Sun is reporting that the SAS has moved part of its anti-terror team to a forward base near London, amid concerns that a prolonged attack may be staged in that city. MI5 also referred to the Mumbai atrocity of 2008 as a comparison, in which coordinated bombings and shootings took place over four consecutive days, killing 174 and wounding a further 300.

They may try to storm a building, take hostages, rig it with explosives or kill at will."

Up to 500 British-born men are understood to have gone abroad in order to fight for the Islamic State (IS). Scotland Yard believes that up to 200 may have already returned

We are also looking at stopping British citizens from re-entering the country if they are suspected of terrorist activity abroad.

I say, that's not cricket, is it? Appalling, to say the least, don't you think?!! And, the liberal left's reaction?

Former Liberal Democrat leader Sir Menzies Campbell told BBC Radio 4: "I think it's rather difficult and it might well constitute illegality. To render citizens stateless is regarded as illegal in international law. To render them stateless temporarily, which seems to me the purpose of what's being proposed, can also I think be described as illegal.

[member_22733]

What about the human rights of the Brishit citizens? They are after all Brishit, it only so happens that they are Mohammedan freedom fighters who liberated Syria and Eyeraq, and that should not be an automatic disqualification for them to enter the place that they call home?

Brishitstain is violating basic human rights by disallowing the pious Mohammedans from returning home after their tour of holy duty.

[A_Gupta]

FYI: More Rotherham and "Asian"
http://www.theguardian.com/society/2014 ... ana-bashir

Also:
http://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2014 ... rham-abuse

The Labour party has suspended four Rotherham councillors. Roger Stone, who has already resigned as council leader, Gwendoline Ann Russell, Jahangir Akhtar and Shaukat Ali have been suspended pending investigation after Ed Miliband said last week that large numbers of young people in Rotherham were systematically abused and let down by those who should have protected them. In addition, two former members of the party, Shaun Wright and Maurice Kirk, will require national executive committee approval should they want to rejoin the party.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/ ... -most.html

She describes the case of a mother – not mentioned in the report – who found 125 names of men on her young daughter’s mobile phone, and a description of the activities in which they had been engaged. “There was no doubt what kind of activities they were.” When the woman handed the phone in to the police, she was allegedly told that it would be a breach of the child’s human rights if they were to act on it.

“Plain language has always been my goal,” she says. “You must tell people exactly what has happened. It is important not to fudge the issues or protect people from the worst aspects. And it is important for the victims that their dreadful experiences should be acknowledged in a public way. I feel sorry for the good and decent people of Rotherham in all this. I don’t know what you can do about that. I am sorry for the effect on the town’s reputation – but it is important to speak the truth.”

Her hope is that Rotherham council will work with its ethnic groups in a different way to tackle the “hidden problem” of sexual exploitation in the future. Instead of relying on so-called community leaders to represent the Pakistani-heritage community, she suggests, it would be more profitable to work with the Muslim women. “It is an issue that affects the women. We need to be much more open and direct. The imams and elected members ended up being a barrier rather than a conduit.”

But the news-item still goes on about "Asian".

[A_Gupta]

The Rotherham report:
http://www.rotherham.gov.uk/downloads/f ... _rotherham

Issues of ethnicity related to child sexual exploitation have been discussed in other reports, including the Home Affairs Select Committee report, and the report of the Children’s Commissioner. Within the Council, we found no evidence of children’s social care staff being influenced by concerns about the ethnic origins of suspected perpetrators when dealing with individual child protection cases, including CSE. In the broader organisational context, however, there was a widespread perception that messages conveyed by some senior people in the Council and also the Police, were to 'downplay' the ethnic dimensions of CSE. Unsurprisingly, frontline staff appeared to be confused as to what they were supposed to say and do and what would be interpreted as 'racist'. From a political perspective, the approach of avoiding public discussion of the issues was ill judged.

There was too much reliance by agencies on traditional community leaders such as elected members and imams as being the primary conduit of communication with the Pakistani-heritage community. The Inquiry spoke to several Pakistani-heritage women who felt disenfranchised by this and thought it was a barrier to people coming forward to talk about CSE. Others believed there was wholesale denial of the problem in the Pakistani-heritage community in the same way that other forms of abuse were ignored. Representatives of women's groups were frustrated that interpretations of the Borough's problems with CSE were often based on an assumption that similar abuse did not take place in their own community and therefore concentrated mainly on young white girls.

Both women and men from the community voiced strong concern that other than two meetings in 2011, there had been no direct engagement with them about CSE over the past 15 years, and this needed to be addressed urgently, rather than 'tiptoeing' around the issue.

You notice, we make the same mistake too - we tend to give more importance to whom we consider to be the traditional community leaders.

[A_Gupta]

And a most relevant question from a NYT reader:

But I keep wondering when we will get the article that starts asking and answering deeper and more useful questions about the human sludge that treats girls and women this way?

[ramana]

Walter Russell Mead fulminates at NYT for not disclosing the religion of the Rotherham perpetrators.
In their delayed story ( ) about the outrage they mention everything but the religion of the perpetrators.
I think Liberal media is in cahoots with Islamists.

[eklavya]

Also:
http://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2014 ... rham-abuse

The Labour party has suspended four Rotherham councillors. Roger Stone, who has already resigned as council leader, Gwendoline Ann Russell, Jahangir Akhtar and Shaukat Ali have been suspended pending investigation after Ed Miliband said last week that large numbers of young people in Rotherham were systematically abused and let down by those who should have protected them. In addition, two former members of the party, Shaun Wright and Maurice Kirk, will require national executive committee approval should they want to rejoin the party.

But the news-item still goes on about "Asian".

The news item you have linked above does not include the word "Asian" and concludes as follows:

The Home Office researcher, who was not named by Panorama, also said she had been accused of being insensitive when she told one official that most of the perpetrators were from Rotherham's Pakistani community.

[eklavya]

Walter Russell Mead fulminates at NYT for not disclosing the religion of the Rotherham perpetrators.
In their delayed story ( ) about the outrage they mention everything but the religion of the perpetrators.
I think Liberal media is in cahoots with Islamists.

Here is an article in The Guardian by an educated accomplished young woman of Pakistani-muslim heritage who was abused by a neighbour of Pakistani-muslim heritage:

http://www.theguardian.com/society/2014 ... ana-bashir

[sanjaykumar]

Odd that a Pakistani heritage woman can't tell Pakistani men from 'Asian' men. Perhaps they had shorn off their magnificent, bushy beards and had had epicanthic folds surgically emplaced. Or possibly they had tilak on their foreheads.

The possibilities are intriguing. Or perhaps she did not see too many Pakistani men at Oxford and can't tell the difference. Or perhaps when she examined their passports, it clearly gave place of birth as Asia. On the other hand, perhaps.......

[eklavya]

The victim writing in The Guardian certainly knows the difference between Pakistani and Asian. Even so, I'm not sure she is doing an equal/equal. What I learned from her piece was that adults in her own Pakistani-Muslim community, maybe even her parents, are not prepared to fight for justice if it means publicising the assault.

Maybe the word "Asian" ought to be de-legitimised, but not sure how that happens. Indians will have to insist that we cannot be termed "Asian".

We cannot stop the Pakistanis from calling themselves "Asian", or can we?

Here is another victim speaking. She also uses the word "Asian". I doubt she is trying to obscure the specific ethnic identity of her attackers:

Rotherham abuse victims tell their stories

One woman, who has been called Sarah to protect her identity, was 11 when she was first groomed and abused in Rotherham.

She has claimed a police officer found her naked in a bed and left without doing anything.

Sarah, who was living in a care home at the time, said: "I was just taken to a house with two Asian males and shown what to do by another girl.

"While I was there I'm assuming I was reported missing because police arrived.

"Me and the other girl were pushed to the side of the bed, naked, no clothes on, and a police officer came to the side of the bed.

"I recall locking eyes with that police officer and he said 'there is nobody here', and he left. We got dropped off back at the kids' home the next day."

'Nobody listened'
Sarah said the abuse went on for five or six years and involved 40 or 50 men.

She said police accused her of lying when she spoke out about the abuse.

"They didn't believe me," she said. "They told me I was trouble - I went out with these men, I shouldn't go near these men.

"Nobody listened, I had police officers take me back to these men.

The press/politicians are very focussed on the fact that the local government / police did nothing to stop the abuse, even though they were very well aware of it. They are also talking about the fact that one of the reasons the authorities did not act was the fear of being seen as being racist (as the perpetrators were nearly all Pakistani Muslim men). If anything, this episode is shining a bright light on the appalling values of the Pakistani Muslim community (1,400 victims in 1 town over 16 years), as well as the callous nature of the authorities.

[Singha]

traditionally the british upper classes have despised the lower classes to which all these victims belong. they would rather play with the cavorting and thieving elites of the world in london than think about protecting their weaker sections.
in the past, a lot of people got deported to australia under laws that allowed deportation for things like stealing a few pennies. the lower classes were depopulated to the extent possible to australia , or else encouraged to move along to america perhaps. the british elites themselves some of them became big land and slave owners in the southern plantations whether on their own wealth or in grants from the king based on services rendered.

wiki
Pursuant to the so-called "Bloody Code", by the 1770s there were 222 crimes in Britain which carried the death penalty,[5] almost all of which were crimes against property. These included such offences as the stealing of goods worth over 5 shillings, the cutting down of a tree, the theft of an animal, even the theft of a rabbit from a rabbit warren.

The Industrial Revolution led to an increase in petty crime due to the economic displacement of much of the population, building pressure on the government to find an alternative to confinement in overcrowded gaols. The situation was so dire that hulks left over from the Seven Years' War were used as makeshift floating prisons.[6]Eight of every 10 prisoners were in jail for theft. The Bloody Code was gradually rescinded in the 1800s because judges and juries considered its punishments too harsh. Since lawmakers still wanted punishments to deter potential criminals, they increasingly applied transportation as a more humane alternative to execution.[7]

Transportation had been applied as a punishment for both major and petty crimes since the seventeenth century. Around 60,000 convicts were transported to the British colonies in North America in the seventeenth and eighteenth centuries. When the American Revolutionary War brought an end to that means of disposal, the British Government looked elsewhere. After James Cook's famous voyage to the South Pacific in which he visited and claimed the east coast of Australia in the name of the British Empire, he described Botany Bay, the bay on which present-day Sydney sits, as an ideal place to establish a settlement. In 1788 the First Fleet arrived and the first British colony in Australia was established.

[rsingh]

I have my way of tackling this Asian type things. Typically an arrogant French or English take you as Bakistani. I always answer back saying " it is normal, me too I am confused between Kosovan and Norwegian. For me all the Europeans are same". This keeps the guy on bunson burner for days.

[UlanBatori]

I hadn't seen this: Poodlestan is the birthplace of ISISP? Seems to have gone the ISISP way long ago

[deejay]

I hadn't seen this: Poodlestan is the birthplace of ISISP? Seems to have gone the ISISP way long ago

This Roterham case - Police, administration not taking action for 14 years because of racial sensitivities looks like a very flimsy reason. There is much more behind this. I mean, the administration and police not doing anything for 14 years across cases and personnel and it remained hidden for so long. May be I am floating a CT, but trusting the Brits is difficult here.

[Yayavar]

There is also,the case of metropolitan london undercover police officers who setup relationships with women belonging to outfits they were investigating. These vulnerable women wanting some affection might be involved in such dangerous pursuits as belonging to PETA. A group these women have sued the Metropolitan police recently. HEre is an example of one policeman who went too far http://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2014/ ... loved-me-2

[svinayak]

thanks

[A_Gupta]

If anything, this episode is shining a bright light on the appalling values of the Pakistani Muslim community (1,400 victims in 1 town over 16 years), as well as the callous nature of the authorities.

My theory is that it goes both ways, in the following sense. E.g., Syed Qutb visited the US in the 1950s and was appalled by the freedom women had (in the 50s!), and was radicalized - well, to the extent he wrote the works that inform the ideology of the modern jihadis.

Now think of today's Muslim youth who see the hideous behavior of their fellow-religionists in say, the UK, and blame it on the godlessness of the unbelievers and their government; that this corrupts Muslims, and that only a "pure" Islamic dispensation can save them from sin. And off they go, and commit hideous acts in another direction.

[ramana]

Have they found jihadi links to those Pakis yet/ Eg. the abusers going to Kashmir, Afghanistan etc.

It sure looks like a covert operation run by Brits went awry.

[A_Gupta]

Commentary:
http://english.alarabiya.net/en/views/n ... e-sin.html

[jagga]

Scottish independence: 5 reasons yes is winning

There's been an eight-point shift in the polls: how can it have happened, when the odds seemed so stacked against yes?

Dont be shocked if it is 'YES' on 18th !

[ramana]

Is there class action suit capability in UK?
I think the Rotherham police is fit case to be sued for gross and criminal negligence.
No barristers from UK here?

[Yayavar]

The new linked below shows that the police itself - not just this Paki grouping - thought it is ok to take advantage of helpless women.
viewtopic.php?p=1711737#p1711737

[pankajs]

Financial Times ‏@FT 4m

Big story on Sunday: Scotland's Yes campaign leads in the polls for the first time. The data broken down: http://on.ft.com/1pDv6X6 #indyref

Concessions being offered for rejecting a YES vote.

[anupmisra]

Scottish independence: Vote 'will go to the wire'

The Yes camp claims to have the "big momentum" behind it, while opponents of independence insist they will win.

The final push for votes comes as a a YouGov poll for the Sunday Times suggested that, of those who have made up their mind, 51% planned to back independence, while 49% intended to vote no.

Elsewhere, Labour leader Ed Miliband suggested in an interview with the Scottish Mail on Sunday that manned border guards could be introduced if Scotland voted to go independent.

He told the paper: "If you don't want borders, vote to stay in the United Kingdom."

I stand corrected. The English are dumb and funny.

[pankajs]

http://www.express.co.uk/news/uk/507891 ... -extremism

EXCLUSIVE: Probe into 'Trojan Horse' school suspected of funding extremism

In June, the entire governing body was barred from the premises of Al-Hijrah School in Bordesley Green, ­Birmingham, after it was revealed that it was facing a £900,000 deficit.

Now Birmingham City Council has confirmed it is carrying out an investigation into “financial irregularities” surrounding the school’s finances.

Last week the council’s cabinet member for children and family services Brigid Jones was questioned by Parliament’s Education Committee about the inquiry into the 100 per cent Muslim school.

Graham Stuart, chairman of the committee, asked if the “misuse of money could have led to those monies being used for the purposes of extremism”.

She said: “The school has a rent agreement with a trust and we know that money goes into that trust.

“As to what the trust does with the money, that is subject to an investigation and it would be inappropriate to comment further at this time.”

It is understood that the council pays rent to the Al-Hijrah Trust, which owns and, until May, ran the school. The trust runs what its website calls a “training academy” for Muslim parents to “empower the community to ensure our needs are met” and “get more Muslims involved so that they can influence the education of their children”.

Tahir Alam, the alleged ringleader of the Trojan horse plot, is the academy director and until recently a trustee and secretary of the Al-Hijrah Trust, which has offices in Birmingham and Pakistan.

...
Al-Hijrah is not one of the 21 schools inspected by Ofsted in connection with the Trojan Horse plot to oust secular heads and governors and impose Islamic doctrine.

Yet it was placed in special measures after an Ofsted inspection in December 2013 and a follow-up visit in April found the “governance remains inadequate”.

In May, governors reportedly refused to co-operate when members of the Interim Executive Body (IEB) tried to move into the school, which caters for children aged between four and 16. Council chiefs are now suing former chairman of governors Waseem Yaqub for up to £100,000 over claims he led a campaign of harassment of staff brought in to turn it around.

Ms Jones told the committee: “In the particular case of Al-Hijrah, we applied for an IEB because we were very concerned about the actions of the governing body. We were concerned about the severe deficit the school had got itself into and where that money might be going.

[Hari Seldon]

http://www.express.co.uk/news/uk/507891 ... -extremism

EXCLUSIVE: Probe into 'Trojan Horse' school suspected of funding extremism

In June, the entire governing body was barred from the premises of Al-Hijrah School in Bordesley Green, ­Birmingham, after it was revealed that it was facing a £900,000 deficit.

Cute name.

[Philip]

Scottish independence vote,"Yes" is a nose in front.

Scottish independence: Yes campaign ahead
Separatists ahead for first time in independence race as unionists to outline new powers
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/ ... ahead.html

By Matthew Holehouse, Political Correspondent
07 Sep 2014

Scotland is on course to become an independent nation after a poll placed the pro-separatist Yes campaign ahead for the first time.

Some 51 per cent of Scots back independence with ten days to go until the referendum - overturning a 22-point lead for the Better Together campaign in just a month.

George Osborne, the Chancellor, said the Government will this week set out a timetable and process by which new powers can be granted to Scotland if No vote is returned. It comes as polling shows many Scots do not believe a No vote would result in greater autonomy.

“Seldom has the term ‘knife-edge’ carried such lethal force. A two-point gap is too small for us to call the outcome,” said Peter Kellner, the President of YouGov. “In the past four weeks, support for the union has drained away at an astonishing rate. The ‘yes’ campaign has not just invaded ‘no’ territory – it has launched a blitzkrieg.”

The Yes campaign is regarded as more positive than Better Together, and has a superior ‘ground ‘game’, Mr Kellner said. Women voters in particular are losing their “fear” of independence. “If men do not start swinging back to ‘no’, any further shift to ‘yes’ by women will guarantee Salmond victory,” he said.

The number of Labour voters backing independence has jumped from 18 per cent to 35 per cent in a month.

The Chancellor said it was "clear" Scotland wanted more autonomy and the Tories, Labour and the Liberal Democrats had agreed to deliver new freedoms on tax rates and welfare spending.

He told the BBC: “You will see in the next few days a plan of action to give more powers to Scotland. More tax powers, more spending powers, more plans for powers over the welfare state.

"That will be put into effect - the timetable for delivering that will be put into effect the moment there is a No vote in the referendum.

"The clock will be ticking for delivering those powers, and then Scotland will have the best of both worlds.

"They will both avoid the risks of separation but have more control over their own destiny, which is where I think many Scots want to be."

Mr Osborne said Alex Salmond is not “telling the straight truth” about what currency an independent Scotland would use. The Westminster parties have insisted Scotland would not be alllowed to use the pound.

He said: "Alex Salmond is not really telling people the straight truth about what currency Scotland will use if Scotland separates from the rest of the UK.

"What are going to be the notes I pull out of my wallet or my purse, the coins I have in my pocket, if this country is independent or separate from the rest of the UK?"

Gordon Brown, the former Prime Minister, suggested Conservative policies on tax and welfare are driving the independence campaign. Pro-separatists have repeatedly said a Yes vote would ensure Scotland is not governed by Tories.

"There's a sense this country is unfair, that people's living standards have been frozen, that the opportunities available to young people are not what they should be - and that is shared with people in Egnladna and wales, and that is probably one of the factors influencing that debate," he said.

Mr Osborne added: "People need to know when they vote on the 18th they are not voting about a single politician or a single policy. This is not a protest vote, this is a once-in-a-lifetime vote; this is not a vote about the next five years, this is a vote about the next 300 years."

[Ardeshir]

Pulling out all knives now.

Scottish sports stars face Rio 2016 Olympic ban if voters back independence in 11 days time, warns Games chief
An independent Scotland will not be able to compete in the 2016 Olympics in Rio de Janeiro, a senior Games official has warned.

Olympic Committee vice president Sir Craig Reedie said Scottish athletes were highly unlikely to be able to represent their new country at the next games if the country votes for independence next week.

Sir Craig, who is also president of the World Anti-Doping Agency, said there would not be enough time between Scottish independence in March 2016 and the start of the Games that summer to allow Scotland into the event.

The revelation comes amid mounting concern in Westminster over a surge in support for independence.

A poll for Sunday Times put the ‘Yes’ camp ahead on 51 per cent to the No camp's 49 per cent.

Panicking Westminster politicians have drawn up a last-minute plan to save the union – promising Scotland sweeping new powers on tax and welfare.

The prospect of missing out on the world’s biggest sporting event will offer the ‘No’ to independence camp further ammunition against separation.

[sudarshan]

Is the separatist vote really suddenly "ahead by a nose," or are the surveyors simply coming around to admitting the truth? I suspect the survey numbers were cooked all along, and now, when Scottish independence seems just around the corner, they're back-pedaling.

Long live independent Scotland!

[member_28638]

Why The Scots Want A Disunited Kingdom

Rakesh Krishnan Simha


The British union, cemented with wealth looted from India, is past its use-by date

Britain is on the road to disintegration. In a referendum slated for 18 September, Scotland will decide whether or not to stay in an “abusive marriage” with Britain. If the Yes camp wins, then the over 300-year-old United Kingdom will be history.

London newspaper The Telegraph reports that support for Scottish independence has risen eight points in a month. The Yes camp is just six points behind the No camp, up from 14 points in mid-August and 22 points early last month, excluding undecided voters.

Scotland’s biggest grouse is that the UK’s Westminister model is not working for it. In the words of the Yes Scotland Declaration, “It is fundamentally better for us all if decisions about Scotland’s future are taken by the people who care most about Scotland, that is, by the people of Scotland.”

Like many troubled relationships, it was an unholy union from the start. First, the English used bribes to buy off Scotland’s elites to push through the anschluss in 1707. As the Scottish poet Robert Burns wrote, “We’re bought and sold for English gold.” Making the transaction even more tainted was the fact that the gold was looted from India.

Scotland and England had been warring for centuries, with the English usually getting the upper hand, but the marshy country’s spirit remained intact. For instance, the Declaration of Arbroath in 1320 stated: “For as long as one hundred of us shall remain alive we shall never submit to the rule of the English.”

But what soldiers fight for, politicians usually give away. In 1707, the English made them an offer they couldn’t resist. The Scottish chiefs were told the English had come upon a land of untold riches and if Scotland joined England, then together the two of them could divvy up the booty. The newly targeted country was, of course, India.

Empire’s troopers

Without India there would be no UK today. The recruitment of Scots in the 1720s and ’30s into the East India Company and its armed forces began to show dividends from the ’50s, as the great wealth scooped up from India was invested in the social and economic fabric of Scotland.

“The wealth from India pouring into Scotland created a mighty padlock that ensured she would remain bound fast, and be part of the new ‘Great Britain’ well into the future,” writes George K McGilvary in East India Patronage and the British State: The Scottish Elite and Politics in the Eighteenth Century (2008).

What kind of amounts are we talking here? McGilvary says the funds reached £500,000 per annum around the 1750s and ’60s, and more than £750,000 per annum going into the 19th century. In a 60-year span between 1720 and ’80, Scots took home more than £68 million from India.

To give you an idea of what such amounts meant in those days, in the 18th century the annual pay of a full-time domestic servant was £2-3; the monthly pay of an East India Company seaman was £1 and 15 shillings. You get the picture: the two dirt poor countries had hit the mother lode.

“Such sums were a colossal stimulus to life in Scotland,” writes McGilvary. “The favours, the posts supplied and the money remitted and brought back by those who returned, helped mend society, created a social and economic infrastructure and jobs, robbing Scottish separatism and nationalism of its urgency…”

Scots became enthusiastic members of the East India Company and later the British Raj. India being an extremely demanding theatre of conflict — because of the stiff resistance put up by the people — Scottish soldiers were also used in large numbers in Indian wars. Without Scottish numbers, England on its own couldn’t have coped with the simultaneous wars against Napoleon’s France and India.

The money transformed Scotland in other ways that worked in England’s favour. The Scottish elites became Anglicised even as economic, political and social interdependence grew between the two countries. It was in this typical English way of destroying a country’s social fabric that Scotland — which had fended off Roman Emperor Hadrian —was well and truly tamed.

However, the new money only served to paper over the difference and prejudices between the two countries. In London, the union was never regarded as an equal relationship. In fact, the transformation of Scotland from a backward outpost to a highly industrialised region fuelled considerable resentment and envy in England.

The following ditty popular in London those days is an example of the bigotry the Scots faced — and continue to encounter today — in Britain:
England for beauty
Ireland for wit
Wales for deceit and
Scotland for shit


We’ve had enough

After more than three centuries of being in this North Atlantic Theft Organisation, which specialised in conquering rich, effete nations and then turning them into Third World countries, the Scots want out. With the loss of former colonies, the easy money has run out. The harsh terrain and abysmal weather of their country aside, Scots now have to deal with the cold reality of Britain’s shrinking economy and worse, the encroaching Thatcherite State that threatens to destroy Scotland’s cost-free university education, non-privatised healthcare and State housing.

Undeniably, both countries have drifted apart in the past few decades. David Berry of the pro-independence Scottish National Party (SNP) compared Scottish people to “slaves on a plantation” and said North Sea oil and gas revenue flowing to London was “akin to domestic abuse”.

The SNP is trying to convince Scots that the rest of the UK has become so foreign a place with such different values that there is little sense of being in the same union. “We should aspire to be different,” says party chief Alex Salmond. Or to borrow the famous words of Star Trek’s Scotty: Scotland “cannae take it nae more”.

Messy divorce

There is no doubt if Scotland goes, Britain will be significantly weakened. The rump State will then need to worry about its permanent seat in the UN Security Council. Scotland might also dispute Britain’s place in the European Union (EU).

Apart from the loss of prestige, which is inevitable when such a key country leaves the UK, London could face disputes over such issues as Scotland’s share of the UK’s debt and gold reserves. If Britain objects, an independent Scotland could lay claim to overseas UK territories, such as the Falkland Islands, by claiming Scottish role in annexing them.

The North Sea hydrocarbon resources — or whatever is left of them — are another area where the Scots are being ripped off. While England has got most of the benefits over the past several decades, London now says Scotland will have to pay a share of the cost of decommissioning the offshore rigs.

A major dispute, one in which the US and France have also jumped into, is regarding the UK’s nuclear submarine base the SNP wants evicted by 2020. NATO military chiefs have said that the SNP’s call for a constitutional ban on nuclear weapons in Scotland is unacceptable to them.

With Britain’s military a pale shadow of its former self, nuclear submarines are the last vestiges of the country’s power. It is, therefore, paranoid its nuclear submarines could be removed from an independent Scotland, potentially leaving the UK without a nuclear deterrent for decades.

Although Scotland wishes to remain within NATO, alliance leaders have said it will be “almost impossible” for an independent Scotland to join. While the declaration is intended to spook the Scots, self-preservation could be a motive too — some member States fear it could encourage separatists within their own borders. Currently, of all NATO member countries, 17 have separatist movements.

The Anglo-American mouthpiece, The Washington Post, fears the ripple effects of Scotland’s secession would not be limited to the UK. “Other separatist movements in Europe are watching the Scottish debate with undisguised interest,” it laments. “In Spain, more than a million Catalans have turned out in the streets calling for independence. In the Basque country, separatist violence has waned, but the desire for a separate state remains. In Belgium, whose unity hangs on a thread, Flemish nationalists have made it clear that if Scotland has a free pass to the EU and NATO, they would be next in line. There could be more breakaways to come.”

Similarly, the EU has said Scotland will have to reapply as a new member — a process that could take up to nine years. But while the Scots are being shooed away, the EU earlier this year was rolling out the welcome mat to Ukraine. Clearly, Scotland is being treated like a used rag.

Window of opportunity

There is more to Scotland than fine whisky and bagpipes. Scottishness is the polar opposite of the English coldness that built one of the most genocidal empires in history. If that Scottishness is not yet Anglicised, it is worth preserving.

Hopefully, modern Scots will display more sense on 18 September than their forefathers did in 1707 when they sold their country for a few shiploads of gold. If they pass up this opportunity for freedom, it will be another generation before the next referendum comes.

In the meantime, Scotland continues in its downward trajectory — economically and politically.

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(Published in Tehelka Magazine, Volume 11 Issue 37, Dated 13 September 2014)

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Should Scotland be an independent country?

A timeline of poll results from March 2013 to September 2014.

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Do you think Scotland would be better or worse off if independent from the rest of the UK?

\Trend from May 2011 to September 2014. Something happened at the end of June 2014 that triggered this massive upswing of "Yes" voters.

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The "Yes" vote upswing trend.