India Border Watch: Security and Operations

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Re: India Border Watch: Security and Operations

Postby govardhanks » 09 Oct 2014 09:49

That was not a massive retaliation, they basically responded to what Bakis fired!! massive retaliation is when more than cent people die both uniform and non uniform!!

Indian International funded newspapers are printing all anti-India news, I am pretty much happy with local news papers they did't even care to give a space for such news!!

I might sound evil, but this is the only language the other side understands!
http://post.jagran.com/pakistani-rangers-target-60-border-outposts-three-bsf-soldiers-injured-1412823879

Friday Friday Fryday!! more infrastructure to destroy less people will die, hit at time right!! destruction should be in such a way, they should take a year at least to build it back.

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Re: India Border Watch: Security and Operations

Postby Singha » 09 Oct 2014 09:50

>> Anybody remember Stalin Orgel?

is that the katyusha ancestor of todays Bm21? red army used to line them up in dozens and start their huge artillery barrages in concert with cannons.

I have been seeking in the artillery thread a low cost volume production means of making crude unguided rockets for 100s of BM21 to be given to the BSF for this kind of situation where even 120mm mortars just dont hack it in terms of throw-weight and density of fires. my proposal to rope in the desi katta making brigands of UP-Bihar belt is being opposed by jamwal sir who posted a pic of a crude weapon. but i ask you - how many of us could do calculus in class3 level? None. yet we learnt and grew up to do it in class11 for sure. same way these talented but wayward criminals can be folded back into the dharmic fold using carrot and stick approach and put to work using their talents for the national missions.

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Re: India Border Watch: Security and Operations

Postby darshhan » 09 Oct 2014 09:51

Sid wrote:
And what makes you think that they cannot do the same to us in retaliation? What about IDP in India?

What message we would be sending? That we are even more barbarians then Porkies are?


Sid, are you sure you belong to Bharat Rakshak Forum which is nothing but a strategic and military forum for people discussing ways to defeat, obliterate and extinguish India's enemies through Military and other means.

Probably you should find yourself some peace/humanitarian forum. BRF sure aint no place for a soft hearted kid like yourself.

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Re: India Border Watch: Security and Operations

Postby Singha » 09 Oct 2014 09:55

every successful indian state of the past has vigourously defended itself , incl moving into and burning the enemy lands on the periphery . there is no other model that works with the barbarians on the NW. negotiating with TSP is like discussing vegetarianism with the ISIS.

Sid , I suggest you start by reaching every work on statecraft you prefer - musashi (book of five rings), Chanakya, Sun Tzu or machiavelli(the prince)...they all say the same thing across the millenia.

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Re: India Border Watch: Security and Operations

Postby uddu » 09 Oct 2014 10:05

Its time to bring in the big guns. Let the Artillery and Pinakas rain down on the Pakis. Pakistan within 50 km from the border must be burned to ashes.
A new border fence 50 km away will protect the Indian population from ceasefire violations. :)

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Re: India Border Watch: Security and Operations

Postby uddu » 09 Oct 2014 10:10

I like the way Modi government's handling of the issue. Pakistan is given its place, that the BSF is more than adequate to deal with Pakis. :)
I hope the Army will be brought in to have some good target practice upto 50 Km away from the International border and shoots anything that moves in this area. :)

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Re: India Border Watch: Security and Operations

Postby pankajs » 09 Oct 2014 10:18

CNN-IBN News ‏@ibnlive 12m12 minutes ago

BSF giving a befitting reply to Pakistan, PM does not need to say anything: Rajnath Singh http://ibnlive.in.com/news/bsf-giving-a ... 3-245.html … #PakDaresIndia

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Re: India Border Watch: Security and Operations

Postby abhishek_sharma » 09 Oct 2014 10:19

Shiv Aroor ‏@ShivAroor 8m8 minutes ago
First images today from the BSF retaliation in RS Pura Sector on the International Border in Jammu.

Image


Image

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Re: India Border Watch: Security and Operations

Postby Sanjay » 09 Oct 2014 10:20

Question - any more photos of the BSF in action during these operations ? Would love to see them using 120mm mortars ! That one is an 81mm, I think - although it looks small.

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Re: India Border Watch: Security and Operations

Postby Shrinivasan » 09 Oct 2014 10:31

^^^ NDTV and Times Now both both showed couple of Jawans unload dozens of Mortars (81mm ones) and fire them away.

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Re: India Border Watch: Security and Operations

Postby Shrinivasan » 09 Oct 2014 10:49

The coverage of these cross border firings have been robust from the Indian side but of late it has been at best patchy from the Pakee side... of the limited pictures which are available, couple of things are apparent.

1) The Paki Rangers don't seem to be adequately prepared for this. They are trying to target Indian positions in bunkers from Machan type structures made of bamboo.
2) The Rangers and FC on the Afghan border seem to be better armed than the ones on the indian border, hence the TSPA had to bring in their 120mm mortars.
3) Fixed mortar positions seems to have been taken out by BSF (may be they too have WLRs), hence PA is resorting to use of mobile mortars.
4) PR war seems to be going India's way, Pakees seem to be clueless whether they should show bravado, play the victim or disown this as Mujahideen
5) RAPEs are left wondering why is Pak doing this now? why in the International border than in the LOC - couple of reasons for this..
a) LOC is manned by IA, IB is manned by BSF, so the perception was it is going to be easy game before politicos rush to defuse the situation
b) Aim was to target civilians, IB has villages right at the border as compared to LOC
c) Terrain was more suitable for action by small arms and machine guns. Mortars came in late.
d) Perceived to be an easier infiltration route after losing 20-40 infiltrators in the recent past
6) buildings on the Paki side have just collapsed, only damaged in our side, may be BSF used higher caliber mortars.
7) Pakees seem to have learnt a lesson from Hamas, they seem to be using civilian structures to fire at desh... which is probably why BSF has extensively targeted some buildings, probably with MRSI firing.
8) Indian positions, bunkers etc LOOK to be well constructed, well prepared for a firefight. So given a free hand, the BSF itself has given a terrific fight.

Good to see that the BSF DG is the only person briefing the media and not allowing a media circus by people like Burkha Mutt

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Re: India Border Watch: Security and Operations

Postby Chandragupta » 09 Oct 2014 11:55

Sid wrote:What message we would be sending? That we are even more barbarians then Porkies are?


You are free to walk to the IB bare chested with a dhoti and offer your other cheek for peaceful Porkies to slap. I'd rather see every Pakistani male, irrespective of his age, dead with the ones in olive any shade of green or camouflage preferably in multiple pieces. I hope that image didn't make you nauseous.

Meanwhile, I have a suggestion for a website that is better suited for your taste - http://amankiasha.com/

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Re: India Border Watch: Security and Operations

Postby Shrinivasan » 09 Oct 2014 12:08


Rajya Sabha TV has produced a detailed program on the latest incidents on the border, this is 2 days old but still plenty of interesting items... grab some popcorn and enjoy.

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Re: India Border Watch: Security and Operations

Postby vinod » 09 Oct 2014 13:22

VinodTK wrote:
According to the Indian mission’s report, India’s retaliation has been so effective that Pakistani television channels have been directed by the Pak GHQ and ISI to completely black out any media coverage of the damage caused on the Pakistani side, and not to show any visuals of the casualties or damage on the ground.

Even the Dawn newspaper was asked on Wednesday by Pakistan Army commanders to tone down its initial report about a few people being killed in retaliatory Indian fire.


:


I hope once things have quietened down, Indian Govt release the satellite pictures of before and after situation of the damages done by BSF on paki side. The release of the pictures should be timed suitably as well.

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Re: India Border Watch: Security and Operations

Postby girish.r » 09 Oct 2014 14:10

Shrinivasan wrote:
Rajya Sabha TV has produced a detailed program on the latest incidents on the border, this is 2 days old but still plenty of interesting items... grab some popcorn and enjoy.


Popcorn it is saar......

Image

Last few days the footprint of cyber aggressiveness of our aaye tee log is much more classy. :twisted:

Check the hotspot above.

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Re: India Border Watch: Security and Operations

Postby Shrinivasan » 09 Oct 2014 14:21

I was marking the places where Pakees have targeted Indian villages, one thing is very surprising...
1) they have targeted villages beyond the border fence, well inside the fence.
2) they have not targeted villages right on the border, these villages are near BSF Garrisons.
3) Indian Villages / settlements are mostly away from the border, Paki villages are right on the border
4) Bang opposite the villages targeted ex: Chak Shera, Arnia, Mahashay Kothe, Pargwal are Pakistani fortified positions, Pakees seem to have fortified Stockades which were used to shell Indian Villages. The problem with this was, these positions became sitting ducks when BSF counter attacked.
5) Indian positions are well behind a high fence, Berms and bunkers/shelters. This is probably why the number of BSF casualty is very less.
6) Paki villages being right near the border have borne the brunt of the attack from BSF.
7) After the initial counter attack by BSF, Pakis might have relocated their mortars onto these villages, this would have made the BSF target these positions and these villages.
8) Pakis have been forced to bring in Mobile Mortars now as all/most of their prepared / fixed positions have been wiped out.

i'll update as we figure out more things.

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Re: India Border Watch: Security and Operations

Postby habal » 09 Oct 2014 14:32

uddu wrote:Its time to bring in the big guns. Let the Artillery and Pinakas rain down on the Pakis. Pakistan within 50 km from the border must be burned to ashes.
A new border fence 50 km away will protect the Indian population from ceasefire violations. :)


50 kms by air means it will take out whole of Lawhore. Including DHS and all liveable townships. It makes sense to keep at this through till November end until it snows out.

however they escalate this, we can re-escalate it way beyond their manageable levels.

it confirms one thing though, the Pakistan Army is the biggest enemy of Pakistan.

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Re: India Border Watch: Security and Operations

Postby Shrinivasan » 09 Oct 2014 14:44

^^^ Habal, we will not be targeting places 50km inland, that too large population centers like Lawhore, this will be outright war... 50km was the width of the front. To target 50kms away, you need to use heavy howitzers or Smerch or missiles. Mortars and field guns have way lesser range.

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Re: India Border Watch: Security and Operations

Postby Prasad » 09 Oct 2014 14:49

Sidestepping the moral question of whether targetting civilians, collateral damage is ok, we should ideally be looking at utility of targetting anything. Are we getting our bang for the buck by targetting a particular place. Bunkers, posts are no brainers. That's what they're for, target practice! If the porkis do the honourable thing of following hamas and basing their mortars, artillery amidst schools, hospitals and residential areas, we have no other go but to target them. Is it fair? Fu(k fairness to other people when the alternative is our own die.

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Re: India Border Watch: Security and Operations

Postby habal » 09 Oct 2014 14:56

maximum damage in minimum time should be the motto. Instead of firing 1no 80 mm mortar 500 times a day. Atleast line up 10 80mm mortars at same fire rate. Then line up at least 10 BM-21 clones and keep at it for 48 hours.

Also take over particular posts after each indiscretion as a penalty. There are so many things that can be done, before paki civilians come in direct line of sight of the mortars. But eventually they too will, and the terrorist army will use these civilians as bargaining chips in their interlocution with anglo-saxons.

The low-hanging fruit here is to come within firing range of some Defence Housing Association colonies. That will get their knickers in a knotty twist like none other.

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Re: India Border Watch: Security and Operations

Postby member_28761 » 09 Oct 2014 15:00

Only BIG TALK by GOI so far ....... we need Gaza style operation to create a buffer zone around LOC and IB ! :evil:

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Re: India Border Watch: Security and Operations

Postby member_22539 » 09 Oct 2014 15:34

^Don't babble like a baby any nonsense that comes into your mouth. Porkis are not palestinians and porkistan is not gaza.

Then again you might be a congi incognito, in which case I withdraw the baby comment, because it would be an insult to babies.

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Re: India Border Watch: Security and Operations

Postby P Chitkara » 09 Oct 2014 15:43

Only BIG TALK by GOI so far


Huh?? Is whatever happening on the IB just big talk? Takes b@@ls to escalate and that is what has happened.

Bringing in heavy arty may escalate it to a point that will give pakees an opportunity to do all sort of rona dhona on the international stage and play victim - that is what has been denied to them.

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Re: India Border Watch: Security and Operations

Postby Yagnasri » 09 Oct 2014 16:13

News papers in India are full of stories, but not much on international news agencies or Tvs like BBC - at least nothing of sort is coming in google news. Strange. Is Khan now keeping quit and that is why only paid media and Indian presitutes are making noise whereas gora presitutes are keeping quite?

NM is trying to change the basic nature of Indian state - from very soft one under MMS to more robust one which defend its people. Slowly but surely the national outlook is being followed by Indian state against pakis. The disconnect between people ideas and the Indian state conduct existed for almost 60 years is disintegrating. That is the greatest thing happening now.

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Re: India Border Watch: Security and Operations

Postby pankajs » 09 Oct 2014 16:13

Pakistan had just flashed the nuclear card. I was expecting this sooner than later.

HeadlinesToday ‏@HeadlinesToday 2m2 minutes ago

We don't want to convert border tension between 2 nuclear neighbours into confrontation: Pakistan's Defence Minister Khawaja Muhammad Asif.

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Re: India Border Watch: Security and Operations

Postby uddu » 09 Oct 2014 16:15

If we are restricting ourselves to Mortar, it's playing into Pakistani hands that the weapons of war is chosen by Pakistan.

I think Jaitley's warning meant that the heavier stuff will be introduced if the Pakis dont stop firing. Pakistan dont have much diplomatic support today. They are seen as another terrorist nation and allowed to exists because India allows it to be there. Not that todays world is fond of Pakistan.
Pakis will always cry. I dont think today anyone is ever bothered about Pakistan.

or it could be indirect way to tell the Pakis that either Baluchistan will get Independence or POK is going to be merged with India.

But surely for this misadventure, they will have to pay a price.

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Re: India Border Watch: Security and Operations

Postby habal » 09 Oct 2014 16:16

Yagnasri wrote:News papers in India are full of stories, but not much on international news agencies or Tvs like BBC - at least nothing of sort is coming in google news. Strange. Is Khan now keeping quit and that is why only paid media and Indian presitutes are making noise whereas gora presitutes are keeping quite?


BBC true to their nature, did try some stunt yesterday when they invited an expert who suggested that US should mediate to resolve this crises. Haven't heard from them since.

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Re: India Border Watch: Security and Operations

Postby uddu » 09 Oct 2014 16:19

BBC is facing protests at home for showcasing rape scenes in one of their serials.

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Re: India Border Watch: Security and Operations

Postby uddu » 09 Oct 2014 16:28

vinod wrote:I hope once things have quietened down


Please dont expect it to be solved pretty soon. The Pakis will eat grass but firing will continue, because in this game it's the Paki Jernails who want it to continue. There will be Several damage at the ground level. Paki fauj will be ************. Still expect the firing to continue. Also expect many foot soldiers to leave their post and run. Downhill skiing.
Reason for the firing to continue is because, we are still keeping it as a border issue and within 5 km of the border.
Once this changes, things will change from the Paki side. Until then dont ever expect silence of Paki guns. The Jernails at the top will never allow that.

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Re: India Border Watch: Security and Operations

Postby member_22539 » 09 Oct 2014 16:37

uddu wrote:BBC is facing protests at home for showcasing rape scenes in one of their serials.


How low has the sun set the mighty britshit empire. Now they make national issues out of soaps. Pathetic.

How I wish potatohead (churchil) was alive to see this.

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Re: India Border Watch: Security and Operations

Postby pankajs » 09 Oct 2014 16:43

Karma ‏@Karma_Paljor 8m8 minutes ago

Pakistani foreign office spokesperson says its military too stretched fighting terror to indulge in adventurism @ibnlive exclusive

Has the climbdown started ..

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Re: India Border Watch: Security and Operations

Postby P Chitkara » 09 Oct 2014 17:11

Not quiet really...Maybe another blackmail for redirecting their forces from NWFP to the eastern front in the hope that uncle intervenes.

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Re: India Border Watch: Security and Operations

Postby member_28761 » 09 Oct 2014 17:12

'Enraged Pakistan opened fire after Asian Games hockey loss, say BSF sources' ~ CNN-IBN

What bull$hit is this ?? :evil:

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Re: India Border Watch: Security and Operations

Postby Rahul Mehta » 09 Oct 2014 17:30

uddu wrote:If we are restricting ourselves to Mortar, it's playing into Pakistani hands that the weapons of war is chosen by Pakistan.


Yes. IMO, we should confine to what pak uses and we should not go beyond that. Certainly NOT below that, but not above that either.

I also believe in no first strike.

We dont have weapon manufacturing capability.

We are jumping on support from USA, Russia and Israel.

We would have lost Kargil if Israel hadnt shipped Bofors shells and France hadnt given LBGs

We should not jump too much on weapons from others.

We should jump AFTER we are making our own non-FDI 100% made in India, 100% made by Indians weapons

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Re: India Border Watch: Security and Operations

Postby habal » 09 Oct 2014 17:51

Rahul Mehta wrote:We dont have weapon manufacturing capability.


Rahul, I think you are talking BS. Whatever heavy and advanced manufacturing we have Pakistan doesn't even have half of that. So who will deplete their stocks first. This is what we are using today.

http://ofbindia.gov.in/products/data/weapons/wme/3.htm
http://ofbindia.gov.in/products/data/weapons/wme/4.htm
http://ofbindia.gov.in/products/data/am ... /mb/12.htm
http://ofbindia.gov.in/products/data/weapons/wme/1.htm
http://ofbindia.gov.in/products/data/weapons/wme/2.htm

this can go on for time immemorial.

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Re: India Border Watch: Security and Operations

Postby uddu » 09 Oct 2014 18:09

Rahul Mehta wrote:We would have lost Kargil if Israel hadnt shipped Bofors shells and France hadnt given LBGs

Dont try to belittle the forces. The victory belongs to them and under restriction of not crossing the border. No LGB's or artillery guns could not win the war if the will and the sacrifices that were made was not there.
Seems you did not know that there was an Embargo on us and French did not supply the parts, but IAF technicians manufactured it to ensure that the LGB's are operational. Agree that with indigenous production, the nation will be strong and will not have to depend on anyone for weaponry for security. Also the current situation not similar to that of Kargil. Nation has progressed far ahead.
Pinaka and Sudarshan do exist.

Current Situation is such that Modi is reading it wrong and believing Pakis stopping the firing. It all depends now on whether the Pakis are reading the situation wrong. If yes they will stop. If no, then they will continue. During that time, nation will have no choice but to start with heavy artillery.

The Pseudos as usual will expect India to go mild on Pakistan. Kurshid was seen crying that India is responding with force. He expecting India to send dossiers as UPA was doing. Anand Sharma was struggling to find the right words to describe the situation.

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Re: India Border Watch: Security and Operations

Postby Shrinivasan » 09 Oct 2014 18:13

Desh can continue this low intensity pounding vitually forever... We can rise it couple of notches to 105mm, 130mm, 155mm, Grad, Pinaka etc... Same for Brahmos,which anyway we will not be using in bulk. Once inducted Prahar would also be inducted in qty like Grad.
Samething with Armoue... But then it add a dimension of attack, this is raising it cpl more notches...

Already you have people talking about, we have adequate stock etc...

IN might next start steaming out toward Shitistan, a threat of a blockade will send a shiver down Pindi.

We should wait for Pukes to start running to3.5 friends, Four- Fathers and above all Unlce.. Till now, absolutely jo noise from anyone

we have elections approaching in couple of states in the next couple of months. So our window is small

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Re: India Border Watch: Security and Operations

Postby shravanp » 09 Oct 2014 18:16

Will Prahars/Brahmos combination eventually replace Prithvis?

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Re: India Border Watch: Security and Operations

Postby Shrinivasan » 09 Oct 2014 18:17

Kur-Shit has started Rhona-Dhona... I thought only MS Ayer was activated by Pakis... Next we will see Comies getting on the airwaves, then Cow belp Sickulars... Followed by the newbies of AAP... Mataji is keeping a studied silence as elections are imminent. She has left any posturing on this subject to Pappu.

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Re: India Border Watch: Security and Operations

Postby uddu » 09 Oct 2014 18:20

http://www.thehindu.com/news/national/w ... sliderNews

Under fire from the Opposition over escalating ceasefire violations by Pakistan, Prime Minister Narendra Modi on Thursday said India has responded to the aggression with courage and lamented the public debate on the issue for political gains.

“Today, when bullets are being fired on the border, it is the enemy that is screaming[/b[b]]. Our jawans have responded to the aggression with courage,” Modi said at an election rally at Baramati, the turf of NCP chief and former Defence Minister Sharad Pawar.

The enemy has realised that times have changed and their old habits will not be tolerated,” he said.

He slammed those targeting the government on the issue through a public discourse, saying it demoralised the jawans fighting on the border. ( I dont think that the Jawans are demoralized by what congressis say now. They are not in govt. The govt is BJP. The fauj is given a free hand. Their hands are not tied anymore. So there will be no more any demoralized but much vigour and enthusiasm. )

Targeting Pawar, who had criticised him for holding poll rallies in Maharashtra when there was tension on the border, :eek: Modi said, “When you were the defence minister, there were problems with Pakistan and China on the border. Did you ever bother to go to the border then?” “There have been terror strikes in Maharashtra during your tenure...Mumbai, Malegaon, Pune. You could not even reach the terrorists, leave alone catching them. In the spirit of patriotism, we never politicised the issue,” he said. :rotfl: :lol: (Pawar getting in kind) lol.
Last edited by uddu on 09 Oct 2014 18:21, edited 1 time in total.


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