Western Universalism - what's the big deal?

Baikul · Post by **Baikul** » 10 Oct 2014 14:09

Cross posting what I said on the STFUP thread:

Malala Yusufzai wins a Nobel Peace Prize ? I didn't think the Nobel Piss Committee could do worse than when it gave it to Obama. For what?

Kailash Sathyarthi's work has been demeaned by this nonsensical equal equal, IMO.

svenkat · Post by **svenkat** » 10 Oct 2014 16:03

Brahmanas are using western toilets if they can afford it.It would be height of hypocrisy to recommend defecation in the open while the upper classes want the comfort,convenience and privacy of 'glamourrooms' for themselves.

In the olden days,'we' sacrificed these conveniences for the higher commonweal.The flush toilet is a symbol of modern civilisation like electricity notwithstanding the environmental costs.In Vedic culture,there was a hierarchy of values and some conveniences were sacrificed for the sake of environmet.Western Universalism is yuga dharma and two aspects of yuga dharma are electricity and toilets.Shri Narendra Modi is emphasising both.No shying away from reality and solutions.

Regardng Malala and Satyarthi,this is an open challenge from scandinavian barbarians.In the long run,we need to dehumanise christism as the religion founded by a ******** (yeshu) and a ******** jewish cult,notwithstanding a few positive elements in this manufactured faith.

One aspect of western universalism is savage treatment of 'other'-Native Americans,Blacks,Hindoos,muslims,vietnamese,dropping atom bomb on japs,lesser status to ME christians.We have to adopt this dehumanising of the 'other'.Christism has to be crushed.Church property(Catholic,mainstream protestant),lands,schools,seminaries,churches have to be appropriated and relentless propoganda done to identify them as evil and anti-national and banning the Roman church,CSI,CNI.A few good people like Philip Sir will be hurt.A few Indian christians will feel the pain.But we need to uproot christism(except ejs) from India.ejs are OK as they cater to the lowest.They should be allowed but as disorganised churches they are no threat.And if they react violently,the iron fist of the law will deal with them.

Similarly,mohammedans should be stripped of voting rights.Their right to life,limb and property will be protected.But go hatya,haj,urdu,azaan,public namaaz will be banned.BD problem will be solved.Pakistan will go over the edge.We can use mohammedans of BD and India and pakistan as cheap labour for agriculture,services,mining and hazardous work.Dalits will get automatic promotion.The policy can be reviewd after pakistan is broken up.All privileges to OBCs and dalits can be removed.Hindu minorities,linguistic minorities will get due protection.Muslims can be banned as a rule from revenue,judiciary,police,army,AF,Navy and higher education professorships.Exceptions can be entertained on a case by case basis.

RajeshA · Post by **RajeshA** » 10 Oct 2014 17:03

Summarizing my tweets here!

Nobel Peace Prize is all about West earning respect by recognizing work of true social workers like Kailash Satyarthi & spending it on pet projects like "Malala Yousafzai".

"Malala Yousafzai" is a British project to create an illusion of West resisting Radical Islam with a useless resistance model designed to fail. "Malala Yousafzai" is a heavily marketed Brit project to stop world from coming up with alternate formulas to stop Radical Islam. That's why one sees on the one hand British establishment heavily marketing "Malala Yousafzai" & on the other hushing up all criticism of Islam.

Does one ever see Nobel Peace Prize being given to anybody in the West trying to fight off their zillion problems of poverty & discrimination? When awarded to someone in the West, say Obama or EU, Nobel Peace Prize is always for bringing warrior's peace to someplace. For rest of world, it is always agenda-based, it is to show lack of rights: Civil Rights, Children's Rights, Labor Rights, Democracy, Environmental Standards. All this is to underline Western Supremacy over others.

With this Nobel Peace Prize West gets to hit three birds with one stone:

Portraying India as a Hell Hole
Marketing its pet project Malala Yousafzai
Doing an Equal-Equal between India and Pakistan

Any recognition for work of Kailash Satyarthi should come from Indians & Government of India. This Nobel Peace Prize is only a Western gimmick to portray India as a hell hole!

We, Indians, need to get over our awe and wonder, our sense of fulfillment and pride, over the Nobel Peace Prize. Throw it in the dust bin!

sudarshan · Post by **sudarshan** » 10 Oct 2014 20:05

Best would be if Kailash Satyarthi didn't accept this bait. All the birds that the west is trying to hit with its stone will fly safe then. IMO, anybody who accepts a Nobel prize these days, especially the peace prize, is automatically suspect. The west can try and give, no reason for sensible people to take.

Or an even better strategy would be to take the prize, and in the acceptance speech, announce that all the money will be given away to some cause that is totally anathema to the west. Tons of free publicity to the cause, plus ready money to spend, and egg on the western mug. Then they will think N-times before selecting the next recipient of their infamous prize.

Nobel Peace Prize is all about West earning respect by recognizing work of true social workers like Kailash Satyarthi & spending it on pet projects like "Malala Yousafzai".

This is the principle of "Trust Banking" which has been perfected by the BBC. I'm borrowing this phrase from some BRF member who used it before, I don't remember who. Much of the BBC reporting on domestic issues and issues which only concern the UK and the western world, will be fair and unbiased. They build up trust that way, and then expend it on propaganda on the unwashed masses. The best way to attack this strategy is to make the UK itself irrelevant. The Scottish vote was a disappointment in that sense, but the UK will get theirs.

RajeshA · Post by **RajeshA** » 10 Oct 2014 20:14

sudarshan ji,

sent you email.

BTW the Scots have now tasted blood, and see their redemption in arm's reach!

shiv · Post by **shiv** » 10 Oct 2014 20:21

RajeshA wrote:Summarizing my tweets here!
We, Indians, need to get over our awe and wonder, our sense of fulfillment and pride, over the Nobel Peace Prize. Throw it in the dust bin!

Rajesh, let me simply cross post a comment in a similar vein that I made in the Pak thread

I see that the Nobel prize creates a "double psychological layer" in our minds.

The first is that it really really recognizes the best of the best and we believe that. Once we believe that outside of the Nobel prize group, no one can be that big or that revolutionary - a dynamic is set up where the prize can either be used as a tool, or alternatively we perceive that it is being used as a tool.

The "Western world" is united in accepting the Nobel as "their" baby, given mostly to achievements in "their domains" done by the methods they recognize. While the science and math prizes are fascinating there are always others in the field who have done work that is probably as good, who get forgotten. So this is a "Northern. Atlantic" winner-takes-all prize. Check the list below for just 4 countries, US, UK, Germany and France. Mostly, work done elsewhere does not meet the criteria.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category:N ... ationality

But we are mentally primed to accept the Nobel as the best and we apply "meta arguments" based on our perceptions of the Nobel being the top prize
1. Indians have won more Nobels than Pakis (We are superior because the west has said so)
2. MMS is trying for the Nobel (which we think he wants because we accept that it is the world's top prize and assume he thinks like us)
3. Nobel committee are playing with India and Pakistan by doing equal equal (Master has not treated me fairly)

As long as we are convinced that the Nobel prize - esp for peace and literature are actually "Greatly desirable World level honours" we also have to accept that the Nobel committee is under no obligation to be fair and can do what they like and put fingers up our backsides if they wish.

If, after we have their fingers inserted up our backsides, we still insist on considering the Nobel as the best of the best then we have no reason to complain. Underlings will be underlings. We are underlings and need to suck it up.

shiv · Post by **shiv** » 10 Oct 2014 20:23

sudarshan wrote: Much of the BBC reporting on domestic issues and issues which only concern the UK and the western world, will be fair and unbiased. They build up trust that way, and then expend it on propaganda on the unwashed masses. The best way to attack this strategy is to make the UK itself irrelevant. The Scottish vote was a disappointment in that sense, but the UK will get theirs.

The Nobel Prize itself represents a variant of "trust banking". The Physics, Chem, Medicine and Math prizes build up the trust while the Literature and Peace prizes are the propaganda tool.

Western Universalism is itself an example of trust banking. The west is technologically and economically on top - that builds trust, and based on that their behaviour and values are promoted as "universal" although those values have nothing to do with technology and money. But because tech and money leaders promote those values - universalism is widely swallowed just as we cheer or are upset by the Nobel prize committee.

hnair · Post by **hnair** » 10 Oct 2014 20:29

svenkat, the silliness around Nobel peace prize is not sufficient ground to talk about targeting specific Indians and shear off their Constitutionally guaranteed rights. A warning issued

svenkat · Post by **svenkat** » 10 Oct 2014 20:39

Sir,
you have every right to ban me.Its not about No bull piss prize nor is my case silly.Theres nothing sacrosanct about this Ambedkar Smrithi.Its about the yeshu cult which creates fifth columnists in India.That has to be dismantled in India.Its a cancer.Ditto with the political power of mohammedans.Everyone knows about the state of things in BD,Pakistan,Cashmere etc.Its also about optimising scarce resources in a densely populated nation modernising to an energy/resource intensive society.I will heed your warning and say no more

RajeshA · Post by **RajeshA** » 10 Oct 2014 20:42

shiv saar,

not only Peace and Literature Prizes but even the Nobel Prize for Economics, or rather the " Nobel Memorial Prize in Economic Sciences" has been used for Western agenda abroad, for example the 1998 Prize to Amartya Sen.

I think it is time for some countries in Asia like India, Japan, South Korea, Taiwan and Singapore to get together and set up rival prizes in Physics, Chemistry and Medicine!

hnair · Post by **hnair** » 10 Oct 2014 20:52

RajeshA, a war crimes museum is a good beginning and does not need a lot of resources - every person who ordered decimation of civilians and civilizations, from Genghis to Truman to bin laden should be presented there, along with entities that suppress Romas, Africans et al.

churchill, pol pot, mao, stalin et al can finally get that nice little garden to indulge in headcount discussions of historic proportions

RajeshA · Post by **RajeshA** » 10 Oct 2014 21:05

hnair saar,

we need to start with a big Bengal Famine Museum in Delhi, and all Western leaders visiting India should be asked to go and lay wreaths there, forcibly listen to speeches there by new eminent historians explaining the horror and condemning the British!

Unless the Western leader has not been taken through all the various tourist "attractions" at the museum, a minimum of 4-5 hours, he should not be entertained by the Indian leaders for any discussions!

member_20317 · Post by **member_20317** » 10 Oct 2014 21:14

RajeshA wrote:shiv saar,

not only Peace and Literature Prizes but even the Nobel Prize for Economics, or rather the " Nobel Memorial Prize in Economic Sciences" has been used for Western agenda abroad, for example the 1998 Prize to Amartya Sen.

I think it is time for some countries in Asia like India, Japan, South Korea, Taiwan and Singapore to get together and set up rival prizes in Physics, Chemistry and Medicine!

That is a new thing I learnt today - 'Economic Sciences'. WT_ is this?

Chupacabra!

svenkat · Post by **svenkat** » 10 Oct 2014 21:17

shivji,
If that post was directed at me,No bull piss prize is shit prize.Its about disinformation by whiteys.Theres a tamizh proverb which says "Panakara seemati valakondaiyum podalam,idakondaiyum podalam"(The rich fashionista can braid her hair the way she choses).Even Buddhism was an Indian Universalism.There was a need for it once.Always mango abduls follow shreshta-s and the elite will always seek standardisation.Even Manusmrithi was a standardisation.So was Bhagavad gita.Perhaps even the Vedic Samhita was a 'standardisation' for its time.People who want to conserve/spread something valuable/useful seek unifying simplifying principles.If theres a vedic culture,theres a non vedic culture,theres an anti vedic culture as well.

The whitey has identified his interests and enemies.We need to identify our interests and enemies too.The whitey does disinformation.Who in India are the sepoys and fifth columnists.Thats what we need to identify.Its not about scandinavians.Its crushing the traitors within.

Also,my essential point is this:Western Universalism is yuga dharma.Its celebration of vaishya-shudra values particularly vyaapari vaishyas.hence it just ignores serious brahmana-kshatriya concerns.The western hypocrisy is breathtaking when they have incorporated those concerns in their working.How does one deal with western cold calculations.We need to be selective too and appropriate some of their values particularly the way they identify and demonise the 'other".The scandinavians have 'identified us'.we need to identify their 'cults'.No more from me.This is the context for my 'outburst'.

A_Gupta · Post by **A_Gupta** » 10 Oct 2014 21:22

RajeshA wrote: Any recognition for work of Kailash Satyarthi should come from Indians & Government of India. This Nobel Peace Prize is only a Western gimmick to portray India as a hell hole!

We, Indians, need to get over our awe and wonder, our sense of fulfillment and pride, over the Nobel Peace Prize. Throw it in the dust bin!

Well, if I have learned my lesson from Pradhan Mantriji correctly, it doesn't matter what Westerns think of India. The only thing that matters is help/indifference/hindrance. The only measures are then are these:

1. Are Kailash Satyarthi and his organization doing work that is good for India? (My answer: yes)
2. Is the Nobel Prize something that will help his work? (My answer: yes)
3. Does the Nobel Prize possibly inflict some PR/echandee damage on India? (My answer: depends on the perspective of the observer. For some India is a land of many unsung heroes, some of whom are noticed on occasion; for others it will be India is a hellhole. Secondly, none of this deflects us from our purposes - it would be stupid of us to allow it to deflect us.)

For India to progress, innumerable people will have to spend huge sweat and effort, most of whom will never get any public recognition. But the goal is not to get public recognition. Recognition is at most a means to an end, not an end in itself. You saw some pictures of ISRO employees when the Mars Mission succeeded. For each person you saw the picture of, there are a thousand people behind them that you will never see. Does it matter? Should it matter?

shiv · Post by **shiv** » 10 Oct 2014 21:37

svenkat wrote:shivji,
If that post was directed at me

No. I have not directed any posts at you in my last 50 posts at least. One post was a response to CRamS from the Pak thread. The others were replies with quotes.

As a matter if fact I did not see your rant above till the BRadminulah's message appeared. Will go back now and read your posts in detail.

shiv · Post by **shiv** » 10 Oct 2014 21:58

svenkat wrote:Brahmanas are using western toilets if they can afford it.It would be height of hypocrisy to recommend defecation in the open while the upper classes want the comfort,convenience and privacy of 'glamourrooms' for themselves.

You know there is a huge irony in this post.

The idea that Brahmanas are superior has been completely fixated for all time by the way Indians have accepted the British Universalist viewpoint of humanity when they first saw Indians. They were intitially very impressed by Brahmins and wrote lots of praise and considered brahmins their kin - which is something that many brahmins liked very much and swallowed. By this time "Western science" had also invented a fake "Dravidian race" that was inferior in most respects to other humans and wrote about their head shape and nose shape and colour etc.

Later, when the Brits discovered that some Brahmins were short and black and not like them they slowly started making up new theories. The Brahmins, they said, had been "corrupted" by mixing with inferior races.

Finally, when enlightenment dawned on the Brits that there were no inferior races of man, they started saying that the Brahmins considered tribals and Dravidians as inferior and that the Brahmins ill treated them and the Brits were there to rescue them. All the while the Brits were themselves educating and employing Brahmins - in Madras and in Calcutta. It was a Tamil brahmin clerk who first mispronounced and mis-spelled my family name - an error that exists today - 150 years later.

So while the British right hand employed and improved the lot of willing Brahmins, the British left hand was continuously teaching willing Indians that Brahmins were uniformly bad - a bunch of ba$tard retards who needed to be put down. This was taken up with great enthusiasm by all people who the British had either defeated earlier (Muslims) or people whom the British had themselves earlier declared as "sub-human" losers - the Dravidians. And of course many Brahmins themselves took the British side. These historic events have moulded the minds of millions of Indians and have shaped politics in Tamil Nadu in particular.

I think one needs to be careful while making generalizations - because some of the generalizations you have made are true now only because of the peculiar way the British saw Indians society and gradually changed their view, initially praising some and putting down others and later praising those whom they put down earlier and telling them that the others guilty. I am not trying to blame the British here. the British were not innocent, but there had the power to do what they did. The created new races, new divisions, new viewpoints and new politics. it is up to us to open our eyes.

johneeG · Post by **johneeG** » 10 Oct 2014 21:58

hnair wrote:RajeshA, a war crimes museum is a good beginning and does not need a lot of resources - every person who ordered decimation of civilians and civilizations, from Genghis to Truman to bin laden should be presented there, along with entities that suppress Romas, Africans et al.

churchill, pol pot, mao, stalin et al can finally get that nice little garden to indulge in headcount discussions of historic proportions

Hnair saar,
I wanted to start a thread: which is the most evil civilization/empire in the world based on number of people killed?

But, your suggestion is a good starter: Crimes against humanity thread.

Like many other things, BRF should take initiative in this also to start this. Soon, it will spread.

shiv · Post by **shiv** » 10 Oct 2014 22:01

johneeG wrote:
hnair wrote:RajeshA, a war crimes museum is a good beginning and does not need a lot of resources - every person who ordered decimation of civilians and civilizations, from Genghis to Truman to bin laden should be presented there, along with entities that suppress Romas, Africans et al.

churchill, pol pot, mao, stalin et al can finally get that nice little garden to indulge in headcount discussions of historic proportions
Hnair saar,
I wanted to start a thread: which is the most evil civilization/empire in the world based on number of people killed?

But, your suggestion is a good starter: Crimes against humanity thread.

Like many other things, BRF should take initiative in this also to start this. Soon, it will spread.

Will do soon..

sudarshan · Post by **sudarshan** » 10 Oct 2014 22:10

Rajesh ji, thanks, just responded.

I think this joint Nobel could be a blessing in disguise. Imagine the psy-ops that a creative mind could work with it. India==Pakistan, sure, but only because they are an errant nation which will come back into the Indic fold sooner than later. Malala is a thorn for Pakistan. Their natural instinct is to reject her as a teenage brat. Play on that, and you play the Pakis like an ukulele. Satyarthi has a great opportunity to really put the Pakis in an impossible position. Don't know how willing or able he'd be to play that role. Modi, however, can seize the initiative in his own inimitable fashion.

"It may or may not be true, like the Pakis claim, that Malala did not really get shot <<<Highlight the Paki stance and open it up for ridicule>>>. However that may be, that a Pakistani girl who was denied education in her own country should be able to rise to share an honor with Kailash Satyarthi <<<I.E. - Malala is only great by her association with KS>>> is truly an inspiration for the girls of Pakistan. We hope and pray that one day women in Pakistan will have the same opportunity for education, that women in neighboring India take for granted."

Or something along those lines. Khujli-central, here come the Pakis into your ambit.

johneeG · Post by **johneeG** » 10 Oct 2014 22:14

- Basically, bhest talked about evil sathi. dhesh stopped sathi.(I don't think it was widely prevalent in the first place).
1) Then, bhest talked about caste. dhesh came up with reservations.
2) Then, bhest talked about marriages at young age. dhesh raised the marriage age.
3) Then, bhest said sexual liberation.(This is the reverse of the 2. Dhesh is backward because teenagers can't date or have sex). Dhesh tried to imitate bhest.
4) Then, bhest said dhesh is poor. Dhesh started rising.
5) Then, bhest said dhesh may become rich, but it is filthy. It has no toilets. Cleanliness initiative was started.
6) Now, bhest is talking about child employment.

Can bhest can't find another issue(and then another issue and then another issue) to show Dhesh in poor light?

BTW, this is not just about dhesh. This is the attitude towards all non-bhestern world. Non-bhestern world will always play catch up with the bhest as long as bhest is allowed to set the narrative.

I don't mean to say that non-bhestern countries don't have faults which should be corrected. Non-bhestern countries should definitely introspect on their social situations and make suitable reforms. I am only saying that Bhest doesn't have the moral authority to act holier than thou.

shiv wrote: Will do soon..

Shiv saar,

Your participation will definitely make the message spread faster.

sudarshan · Post by **sudarshan** » 10 Oct 2014 22:17

johneeG wrote:- Basically, bhest talked about evil sathi. dhesh stopped sathi.(I don't think it was widely prevalent in the first place).
1) Then, bhest talked about caste. dhesh came up with reservations.
2) Then, bhest talked about marriages at young age. dhesh raised the marriage age.
3) Then, bhest said sexual liberation.(This is the reverse of the 2. Dhesh is backward because teenagers can't date or have sex). Dhesh tried to imitate bhest.
4) Then, bhest said dhesh is poor. Dhesh started rising.
5) Then, bhest said dhesh may become rich, but it is filthy. It has no toilets. Cleanliness initiative was started.
6) Now, bhest is talking about child employment.

Can bhest can't find another issue(and then another issue and then another issue) to show Dhesh in poor light?

This is a gem of a post. I'm going to plagiarize as needed (johnee saar, fair warning has been served

).

johneeG · Post by **johneeG** » 10 Oct 2014 22:20

sudarshan wrote: This is a gem of a post. I'm going to plagiarize as needed (johnee saar, fair warning has been served ).

Thanks saar.

TSJones · Post by **TSJones** » 10 Oct 2014 22:28

...AND CONGRATS to

http://www.kailashsatyarthi.net/

...and that mean old western universalism strikes again!

johneeG · Post by **johneeG** » 10 Oct 2014 22:29

These prizes are same as visa for NaMo. Everytime, the massa will say NaMo is free to apply for visa. Its a way to influence namo by keeping the carrot of visa and stick of denying the visa. The same thing is done using these 2-bit prizes. These prizes are made to look important using propagandu just like massa visa is made to look important for NaMo.

BTW, many people say that the sciences category give credibility to humanity and economic category. How can it be? To me, its the reverse. The humanity and economic category take away credibility from sciences category also. So as far as I am concerned, the brazen politicizing & propagandu nature of the humanity and economics category makes even the sciences category suspect.

member_22733 · Post by **member_22733** » 10 Oct 2014 22:33

^^ TSJ, I was sure you would show up here to scratch that unreachable itch. LOL!

Kailash should be happy for what, getting an award from one of the most blood hungry societies on planet earth? And for getting the same award that was given to Obama?

He followed the agenda of the west, which was child labor in India. A new stick to beat India with.

I am not surprised by your own hypocricy: Your own country had child slaves for 200 odd years and even had lynched children for ages (Emmett Till being the famous example). There was no one to rescue them. To this day children regularly get sent to prison and the black ones get shot. I can list so many cases here. Now you Mr. Hypocrite are coming here and congratulating the winner of an award given by the mass-murdering worthies of the west. LOL. His services may be needed more in the US than in India

A_Gupta · Post by **A_Gupta** » 10 Oct 2014 23:59

I don't know why people think Kailash Satyarthi would be a useful idiot for the West.
From his twitter feed,

Oct 5:

Kailash Satyarthi @k_satyarthi · Oct 5

Former child slaves identified 10 evils as faces of RAVANA; illiteracy,child labor,trafficking etc & burn his effigy

Oct 5:
Former child slaves at Balashram celebrate Dusshera,festival of victory of good against evils.

Jul 8:

Kailash Satyarthi @k_satyarthi · Jul 8

BLACK DAY for child rights as Bolivia legalizes child labour for children as young as 10.Big defeat for us all http://panampost.com/marcela-estrada/20 ... ild-labor/ …

Jun 18:

Kailash Satyarthi @k_satyarthi · Jun 18

Govt set to ban employment of children below 14, seeks public comments on amendments.We applaud the govt's commitment http://www.financialexpress.com/news/go ... rs/1261398 …

Jun 13:

Kailash Satyarthi @k_satyarthi · Jun 13

Union Labour & Employment Minister of India Shri Narendra Singh Tomar dedicates his one month's salary to BBA to end child labour in India

Jun 4:

Kailash Satyarthi @k_satyarthi · Jun 4

Former child labourers demand total abolition of child labour to @PMOIndia who visited them at Bal Ashram in 2007

Notice, the letter to Modiji:

May 20:

Kailash Satyarthi @k_satyarthi · May 20

A tea-boy dares his detractors by becoming the PM of India. Now it’s his turn to ensure that no child is forced to become a child labourer.

May 16:

Kailash Satyarthi @k_satyarthi · May 16

Children are not vote banks, but they do look at the new government with great hopes and expectations for their freedom from exploitation.

May 15:

Kailash Satyarthi @k_satyarthi · May 15

On the eve of election results of the world's largest democracy, the country waits for the birth of a politician to champion child rights

May 9:

Kailash Satyarthi @k_satyarthi · May 8

Inability to protect and free hundreds of Nigerian girls from slavery is our collective failure #BringBackOurGirls

A_Gupta · Post by **A_Gupta** » 11 Oct 2014 01:07

I'm really upset that people are so down on Kailash Satyarthi and his work; blithely assume that he will be another Suzanne Arundhati Roy or other such useful tool for the West without knowing the least thing about him. Some Scandinavian committee noticed him, and that brings such opprobrium upon him? This is too much.

I am going to (approximately) translate the Balashram's kids' letter to PMji Modi here, and then take a long break from BRF, till I regain my temper.

Mananiya {Respected} Shri Modi Uncleji,
Saadar charan sparsh {respectfully we touch your feet, standard Hindi letter writing idiom}

We are children that used to work in stone quarries, brick kilns, in factories, and used to sell tea! That is why we cannot express what hope and pride we have upon your becoming Prime Minister!

You may remember that on 2 February 2007, in the Balashram for the rehabilitation of liberated child slaves, near the Bhimsen temple in Viratnagar, Jaipur district, Rajasthan, you had come to meet all of us children. We were very happy that you spent some time with us and gave us some lessons on how to progress in life.

You had asked us which of us remembers the names of their father's father's father, and we could only answer up to our grandfathers. You then asked, who remembers the name of Bhagat Singh, and we said, we all remember him. Then you asked us, why do you remember him? Seek the answer to that and you will get ahead in life.

We have now found the answer to that question, and we have read and written and studied, and are trying to make our own the principles of great men like Mahatma Gandhi and Bhagat Singh. We are also trying to rescue the lakhs, crores of children who are forced into labour, and to give them a better future.

We children are all very happy that the reins of our country are in your hands, this is a matter of the greatest pride for us. From all of us children our heartiest congratulations to you on becoming the Prime Minister of Bharat! We have the wish that in Bharat all Balashrams should come to an end; on this matter we wish to meet you and talk to you, please give us time for a second darshan.

Balashram,
Bacchon Bacchaao Andolan,
Virat Nagar, Jaipur, Rajasthan.

----
You think a Teesta Setalvad would let such a letter be delivered to Modiji?
And with that I am out of here.
See you all some time in the indefinite future when my mental equilibrium is restored.

Jarita · Post by **Jarita** » 11 Oct 2014 01:21

^^ I could not agree more. I have known of Bachpan Bachao for some time now and what they do requires courage and going into very dark places. We cannot deny that we have a terrible situation in India where child rights are concerned.

Gus · Post by **Gus** » 11 Oct 2014 01:49

arun, some people are just reflexive like that. why get bothered by that. you just say your thing and move on. cannot get a uniform opinion on even what is an obvious right or wrong here.

Jarita · Post by **Jarita** » 11 Oct 2014 02:16

India has hundreds of problems, but millions of solutions: Kailash Satyarthi
Avijit Ghosh, Ambika Pandit & Surojit Gupta,TNN | Oct 11, 2014, 01.13 AM IST

I

ndia has hundreds of problems, but millions of solutions: Kailash Satyarthi
"I'm not being given this award for my work in India alone. I work in 144 countries. So it is a global fight," Nobel Peace Prize winner Kailash Satyarthi said.
RELATED

Nobel peace prize 'an honour to children in slavery', Kailash Satyart...
Who is Kailash Satyarthi?
Social media doesn't miss the irony of the Nobel peace prize
Who is Malala Yousafzai?

NEW DELHI: Noisy OB vans and an unending caravan of cars: on Friday afternoon, Kalkaji, a middle-class locality in south Delhi, was suddenly abuzz with activity and animation. It's barely an hour since the news flashed on TV screens. But everybody knows that L-6, a slim, unremarkable two-storey building, has become a very famous address. For word has gone around that it is the workstation of child rights crusader Kailash Satyarthi, who has been jointly awarded the Nobel Peace Prize along with Pakistan's Malala Yousafzai, the spitfire teenage activist who defied the Taliban.

At a time when the chronically sparring neighbours are again trading gunfire on the northern side of the border, leading to over a dozen deaths and causing thousands to flee home, the symbolism and larger meaning of sharing the world's most coveted prize between the two is not lost on anybody, least of all Satyarthi himself.

"I know Malala personally and will definitely call to congratulate her. I will tell her that besides our fight for child rights, especially for girls, we must also work for peace in the sub-continent. It is very important that our children are born and live in peace," says the 60-year-old activist, dressed in a sober sand-coloured kurta and standing bare feet, even as frenzied reporters jostle for his attention.

READ ALSO: Who is Kailash Satyarthi?
Who is Malala Yousafzai?
Satyarthi's association with child rights goes back to his first day in school in Vidisha, a small town in Madhya Pradesh, when as a five-year-old, he witnessed discrimination: a child sitting outside his school working with his cobbler father. "I asked my teachers and my headmaster and they said they are poor children but it was not very convincing. One day I went to the boy's father and I asked, since all of us were going to school, why didn't he send his son to school? He replied: 'We are born to work.' I could not understand why some people were born to work and some others were born to enjoy life," he says.

The incident became a permanent marker in his mind even though he went on to become an engineer. The activist says that even as a student, he wanted to work against child labour but didn't know how. There was no study or legislation against the social evil. "Even the agencies of United Nations never took up the cause till the 1980s. The notion of child rights came only in 1989 when the UN convention on the rights of the child was adopted," he says.

Later Satyarthi quit his job and started Bachpan Bachao Andolan, an NGO dedicated to rescuing children from bondage and working for their rehab across over 140 countries in the world.

His first rescue happened in 1981 at a brick kiln in Sarhind, Punjab. "The father of a girl came to us. We were publishing a magazine, Sangharsh Jaari Rahega, and he somehow came to know about it. He had come to publicise his plight but I realised it was not just a matter of writing something. I had to act because it was a matter involving a 13-14 year old girl who was about to be sold to a brothel. When I help a child and look into his eyes, I feel as if he or she is freeing me," he says.

It has been an eventful three decades since. Satyarthi was beaten up on several occasions, two of his colleagues killed. But a card-carrying optimist, he has kept the faith. The award might have surprised some but it appears that the Nobel Committee had him on the radar for some time.

Reacting to the award, he says, "I was born after the death of Mahatma Gandhi. If the prize had gone to Mahatma Gandhi before me I would have been more honoured. This award is for all the citizens of the country. We are happy that the issue of child rights has been recognised globally now. I will continue my work. This is an honour for all my fellow Indians, as well as an honour for all those children in the world whose voices were never heard before properly.

Then he adds: "India has hundreds of problems, but millions of solutions. "Watan ki ret mujhe aediyan ragadne de, mujhe yakeen hai ki paani yahin se niklega." (Let me rub my feet on the sands of my motherland / I know the spring lies somewhere beneath.)

How does he intend to celebrate the prize? "Not with champagne," he quips. "I am a teetotaller. I am waiting for the children to arrive."

'I am proud that this global fight began in India'

What does the Peace Nobel mean for the child rights movement in India?

I hope that youngsters and civil society organizations and every Indian will feel proud. It is a noble cause to work for the rights of children. It is a movement against child labour and everyone must join it.

What's the next level of fight against child trafficking?

I'm not being given this award for my work in India alone. I work in 144 countries. I work in Africa with equal passion, in Latin America with equal passion. I've worked in Pakistan with equal passion. So it is a global fight. But I'm proud that India is where this fight began and it began through me. Then, it spread to other countries. We are born in the land of the Mahatma where solutions are made with peace and non-violence. I've been working 100% through non-violent means. I strongly believe in the principles of peace in all my fight.

How do you feel after being honoured with this award?

It is a great recognition and honour for millions of children in the world. I hope many more people will join the fight against child slavery. This isn't just about India. It's a global phenomenon. We'll work for this globally. I've been working in 140 countries and my responsibility is with all the world's children.

Who do you remember the most today?

My mother and father. My mother saw me being attacked. She cried when I left engineering for this cause. She understood my fight, encouraged me. I remember all those who were with me in this struggle, including two colleagues who were killed. Whenever I free children from slavery and take them back to their mothers, the tears of happiness in their eyes are like blessings of God. When I see the faces of liberated children, I find their smile of freedom divine and it gives me divine strength. I never feel I'm liberating them, rather it feels like they're giving me freedom.

member_22733 · Post by **member_22733** » 11 Oct 2014 02:28

Let me clarify this: Other than some disagreements on economics, I have no issues with Kailash doing what he is doing in India. The problem is I have seen way too many people getting corrupted by influence from the west, and I just hope and pray that he does not fall prey to it and be another agenda peddler like the rest.

Let me add that there are many things I dont agree with Kailash (especially the economics of things), but that does not mean I would want him to stop what he is doing.

Added later: This guy was nominated by World Vision, and he has worked with them. He is being propped up for something and I hope he is smart enough to side-step that. World-Vision is up to no good in India and anywhere in the World. The only vision they have is of Crosses on every persons neck and every agenda they have points to that goal.

member_22733 · Post by **member_22733** » 11 Oct 2014 02:59

A_Gupta, apologies if I upset you. I am speaking as an armchair thinker, so please excuse me here if I make sweeping statements. "Social work" is much needed in India, but it is important that we get the fundamentals correct first. It is important that we get to know where we have to be and how to get there before the "work" begins.

Exploitation of any people is a big issue, especially if its of children. That we all agree here.

Are laboring children a bane of the society? I would argue that they are not, especially if they are given the proper protections and the right amount of education. I have, on this very thread, outlined what I think of the issue and why the west is making a big deal out it. In that light what we need is not more propaganda, or Nobulls, or any other things, what we needed are policies and enforcement structures that make it difficult for exploiting children, while giving them the freedom to work. With the added condition that they find some voluntary skill based education.

Considering the economic mess that we are in, sharing of productivity by children is an inevitability. How to make it better for everyone involved would be the challenge that needs to be taken up. So instead of preventing child-labor entirely, we need to see how to accommodate it.

Try telling this to anyone in the west, or even any one in the Nobull committee. I can guarantee that they will not get it. Worse, if Kailash ever figures out that it maybe economically unsustainable to have totally un-productive children everywhere and begins to promote that view or work towards it, any funding that he has will be gone in a poof. By this award, he may easily walk into a trap set for him by the west. I hope he has the vision and the understanding to see through it, and more importantly, the integrity to say "no" to the west.

Gus · Post by **Gus** » 11 Oct 2014 03:07

Err....there is a difference between what you imagine child labor to be and what is the reality for many of these childre . Forget about west blah blah, try explaining to people here why child labor should be condoned and not opposed.

Gus · Post by **Gus** » 11 Oct 2014 03:11

he is going to take help from whoever is offering it, because according to him the bigger evil is child labor.

if you feel that certain organizations are subverting this to push EJ agenda, move the govt to block the orgs.

if you don't want him to take help from such orgs, then step in and push these orgs off.

it is a bit rich to condemn that man sitting comfortable wherever you are.

member_22733 · Post by **member_22733** » 11 Oct 2014 03:22

I understand where you are coming from, and I understand the anger. Hopefully this makes sense to you.

Slavery of any kind, especially child slavery should be opposed, and I am with you there. child exploitation should also be opposed. If these two things can be limited effectively a child should be free to do what fits his/her situation. This has always been my position.

Let me explain:
1) Basic economics --> You do not get money if you do not produce anything of value to another person --> You do not produce anything you end up in poverty
2) If a child has to be "work free", it means they are not going to produce anything of value to the society and hence by (1) they are going to be poor.
3) But if a family supports them, or if the govt. supports them completely they can learn something productive and soon become independent productive adult citizens of the country. This is the ideal case, and everyone should be working towards this goal.
4) Due to the size of our population and the lack of our industries, we cannot have (3). We are not there yet. We maybe there in about 20 years.
5) In such a case, many children will be forced to be productive members of the society BEFORE they reach adulthood.
6) This is an inevitability, so if we BAN child labor as such we are going to have a "prohibition era" style illegal labor of children anyway resulting in a large amount of violence and exploitation of children.
7) In light of the above, it is important that our laws accommodate the fact that children are going to be working and make it easy for them to do so and gain income and also develop into productive young citizens of India.

Does that help?

TSJones · Post by **TSJones** » 11 Oct 2014 03:36

A Pakistani and an Indian, united in one cause..........and receiving medals for it! Now that's just terrible.....or is it?

member_22733 · Post by **member_22733** » 11 Oct 2014 03:36

^^^ When are you joining ISIS? ISIS and America have one cause: Destroy the Middle east.

member_22733 · Post by **member_22733** » 11 Oct 2014 03:41

I love how TSJ is out here trolling and pumping his fists (probably at the same time

), as if he has won some victory in our minds. The itch... it must be .... unbearable

KLNMurthy · Post by **KLNMurthy** » 11 Oct 2014 03:44

LokeshC wrote:I understand where you are coming from, and I understand the anger. Hopefully this makes sense to you.

Slavery of any kind, especially child slavery should be opposed, and I am with you there. child exploitation should also be opposed. If these two things can be limited effectively a child should be free to do what fits his/her situation. This has always been my position.

Let me explain:
1) Basic economics --> You do not get money if you do not produce anything of value to another person --> You do not produce anything you end up in poverty
2) If a child has to be "work free", it means they are not going to produce anything of value to the society and hence by (1) they are going to be poor.
3) But if a family supports them, or if the govt. supports them completely they can learn something productive and soon become independent productive adult citizens of the country. This is the ideal case, and everyone should be working towards this goal.
4) Due to the size of our population and the lack of our industries, we cannot have (3). We are not there yet. We maybe there in about 20 years.
5) In such a case, many children will be forced to be productive members of the society BEFORE they reach adulthood.
6) This is an inevitability, so if we BAN child labor as such we are going to have a "prohibition era" style illegal labor of children anyway resulting in a large amount of violence and exploitation of children.
7) In light of the above, it is important that our laws accommodate the fact that children are going to be working and make it easy for them to do so and gain income and also develop into productive young citizens of India.

Does that help?

Only problem is, today, even when there is some sort of "free market" of child labor, and no broad and effective government-level regulation, the violence and abuse--not to speak of sexual exploitation of girls--are very much an integral part of child labor. It is not a pretty-pretty free market theory thing at all. Just go into any small kirana shop in Hyderabad and pay attention to how the shop guy treats the little--sometimes very little--kid who is carrying the groceries back and forth, and is delivering them to the nearby apartment complex. Or look at how young "servant" girls are treated in middle-class homes. If you think that is wrong, think of what it entails to confront the problem. It is bloody awkward, to say the least, to say something to the kirana seth, or to the nice aunty who is pressing another snack on you while berating the little servant girl. Kailash Satyarthi--who is in fact fairly well known in some circles--does this and gets results.

Your cost-benefit analysis sounds not too different from the kind of cost-benefit analysis that was done to prove that India cannot afford the Mars shot when there are other priorities. Whether it will be done in 20 years or 200; today, Satyarthi is doing everything that he can, right now, and if the Norwegians want to tax themselves to recognize that, that's just fine. One decides something is important and then figure out a way to make it happen--that is the whole point of supporting Modi; he is showing the country that this can be done. And Satyarthi is following the finest of Indian traditions and instincts. As a boy, Vivekananda gave away family's clothes to beggars from the window of his home (after he was locked up to prevent him from giving away stuff), because he decided it was wrong that beggars should be in miserable rags and decided to do something about it. What free market and what value-add is there in doing that? Can you do economic analysis of young Narendranath Datta's actions?

Opposing Western Universalism and developing an Indian ethos does not mean we just do or think the opposite of whatever comes out of the West. Should we settle for less for our children just because "this is India, what to do onlee?" Modi says "vasudhaiva kutumbakam" in New York and we go all gaga, what about someone who is doing something for the children of the Indian family? Aren't these children our children? If Satyarthi takes the norwegian prize, then why can't we just say, he knows what he is doing, as we are doing with Modi? What is the difference?

I respectfully suggest that you rethink your ideas about this, instead of defending them or putting down the issue to miscommunication.