West Asia News and Discussions (YEMEN, gulf)

Agnimitra · Post by **Agnimitra** » 08 Oct 2014 13:51

X-post from STFUP thread:

BBC News talks to Tarek Fatah about Pakistan and the Islamic State

1. Pak Taliban is ground-zero of ISIS
2. Foundations of Pakistan 100 years ago was the beginning of the Islamic Caliphate
Etc...

Singha · Post by **Singha** » 08 Oct 2014 14:16

could ISIS find a sympathetic constituency inside Turkey (Anatolian peasants) willing to raise banner against the decadent westernized istanbul elites?

that B-1 nearest known bases would be diego garcia or american mainland. it takes a few days to complete loading a empty B1 with 100s of bombs on its racks if using smaller weapons. so I guess they keep a few loaded and ready for emergencies. khan could also have secretly moved a few to greece , italy or qatar to help the AF/navy units. the lone B1 mission in libya flown by 3 planes from north dakota apparently needed 2 weeks of pentagon paperwork to line up .... as the need to line up critical refueling assets at points over the atlantic for both legs. these 3 however seemed to have run amuck in south libya and flattened a couple of large airbases to the ground in the dark before decamping. 80x1000lb weapons is to be respected. same thing a blackjack could also do - wish we had 15.

pankajs · Post by **pankajs** » 08 Oct 2014 14:24

Firstpost ‏@firstpostin 2h2 hours ago

Islamic State fighters withdraw from Syrian town after air strikes: Monitor http://goo.gl/Q76n6q

http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2014/10 ... y-growing/
White House reportedly frustrated with Turkish inaction against ISIS

The White House is growing more frustrated with Turkish inaction against Islamic State fighters as Kurdish forces desperately battle to keep the Syrian border town of Kobani from falling into militants' hands, according to a published report.

The New York Times quoted a senior administration official who slammed the Ankara government for "dragging its feet to act to prevent a massacre less than a mile from its border."

"After all the fulminating about Syria’s humanitarian catastrophe, they’re inventing reasons not to act to avoid another catastrophe," the official continued. "This isn’t how a NATO ally acts while hell is unfolding a stone’s throw from their border."

vijaykarthik · Post by **vijaykarthik** » 08 Oct 2014 14:35

Mmh. Now for the counterpoint. What is the guarantee that Kurds / YPG / Peshmerga etc etc wont be the new IS?

Iraqi Kurds want referendum and statehood and to separate from Iraq. [Ask Barzani]
Syria Kurds had the best ground troops and these were the guys who were the best that the region knew. They eventually need some knid of settlement / statehood too.

Purely from a logical and moral perspective: arming moderate rebels and non-state actors has been as much as problem as arming countries randomly without due diligence. Agreed that IS is a paradigm shift in the way militancy is being carried out... but per me, its just a logical continuum and when given enough and hard thought on the topic, its pretty inevitable that the bad deeds of randomly arming idiots leads to more armed idiots. So, purely from that perspective, I am not too sure that I am even a fan of arming non-state actors.

Besides, taking help from other thugs like Saudi, UAE etc etc and assuming that this time will be different is also aking to missing the main point and going after crumbs.

My prescription will surely be ground troops. But this menace has to be diluted. Drastically.

I wonder if the west has learnt its lesson of random border distribution without concern for the demographics of the people who lived in the places they sliced and diced. Show and tell act 1, scene 1. Wonder how many more are in store going fwd.

Singha · Post by **Singha** » 08 Oct 2014 15:25

turkey seems to have masses of tanks and surely artillery right on the border. if ankara gave clearance they could have caught the IS faithfuls in a quick pincer movement behind the town and been the hammer against the anvil of the town defence lines.

an opportunity wasted to deal a resounding defeat / loss of face / manpower attrition to the IS.

now they have slunk away, tail between legs ... but will emerge again at a time n place of their choosing unless the anti-IS forces are given enough resources to get on the offensive.

pankajs · Post by **pankajs** » 08 Oct 2014 15:30

http://bigstory.ap.org/article/6f1dc7c6 ... helicopter

Islamic State group downs another Iraqi helicopter

BAGHDAD (AP) — Militants with Islamic State group on Wednesday shot down an Iraqi military attack helicopter, killing the two pilots on board in the second such incident in a week and raising concerns about the extremists' ability to attack aircraft amid ongoing U.S.-led airstrikes.

According to two Iraqi officials, the extremists used a shoulder-fired missile to take down the Bell 407 helicopter, which crashed just north of the refinery town of Beiji, located about 200 kilometers (130 miles) north of Baghdad.

IndraD · Post by **IndraD** » 08 Oct 2014 16:19

Clashes between pro IS & Kurd supporters spread all over Europe, Germany worst hit, several killed in Turkey.
As is evident, Turkey already is starting to get radicalized.

vijaykarthik · Post by **vijaykarthik** » 08 Oct 2014 16:36

I am not sure if I am right... but a significant bit of the ME partially to totally sympathises with the IS. Yes, they don't approve of their brutal methods... but I do remember seeing quite a few reports where people are ready to overlook the mistakes of their IS brothers as long as they are less brutal.

Well, if that were the case, sticking my neck out... drum roll please: Isnt IS increasingly looking like Sunni muslim countries plan B for Islamic Sharia rule and/or Wahhabi & salafi propagation.

Assuming that were true, why will Turkey intervene? They surely will have a secret fetish for IS too and will predictably be more worried about the Syrian kurds...at least, they are now.

Interestingly even TTP swore allegiance to ISIL before they retracted and claim allegiance to Mullah. It was all a misrepresentation by bad media, onlee.

Aditya_V · Post by **Aditya_V** » 08 Oct 2014 16:39

Quite Frankly IS has the full ME sunni support, dropping a few bombs here and there is protect US H&D. The truth if ISIS was targeted like Saddam they will be finished in 1 week.

Singha · Post by **Singha** » 08 Oct 2014 17:46

whatever sunni militias where used in the 'sunni uprising' in northern iraq (american funded) against the baathist rebels seem to have partially migrated to the ISIS and some are ambivalent and ok if left alone by IS.

pix of turkish army tanks near kobani doing nothing
http://i.imgur.com/ynZI4hh.jpg
http://i.hizliresim.com/2Q9RpO.jpg

arminius · Post by **arminius** » 08 Oct 2014 19:01

Singha wrote: pix of turkish army tanks near kobani doing nothing
http://i.imgur.com/ynZI4hh.jpg
http://i.hizliresim.com/2Q9RpO.jpg

The officers and ranks manning these tanks are true mard-e-momeen. Idling around while women are fighting against monsters. Turkey banega Pakistan.

ramana · Post by **ramana** » 08 Oct 2014 19:39

vijaykarthik wrote:I am not sure if I am right... but a significant bit of the ME partially to totally sympathises with the IS. Yes, they don't approve of their brutal methods... but I do remember seeing quite a few reports where people are ready to overlook the mistakes of their IS brothers as long as they are less brutal.

Well, if that were the case, sticking my neck out... drum roll please: Isnt IS increasingly looking like Sunni muslim countries plan B for Islamic Sharia rule and/or Wahhabi & salafi propagation.

Assuming that were true, why will Turkey intervene? They surely will have a secret fetish for IS too and will predictably be more worried about the Syrian kurds...at least, they are now.

Interestingly even TTP swore allegiance to ISIL before they retracted and claim allegiance to Mullah. It was all a misrepresentation by bad media, onlee.

ISIS is a Arab Wahabi Sunni jihadi group. Once you see through these three prisms one will understand.

Turkey wants the Kurds slaughtered by ISIS.

Turkey wont become part of ISIS but will fall to it.
Arabs consider Turks as uncouth foot soldiers.

West Asia is going through Sunni-Shia-Arab-Non Arab civil war.

Its reverting to the old normal prior to colonialism.

Singha · Post by **Singha** » 08 Oct 2014 21:25

but vs whatever little the arabs cobbled together in their heydey, its damascus and istanbul that were the centers of science , literature and technology ... the turkish dynasties also lasted for a incredibly long line of succession. the southern arab rabble are not even close to what was achieved in the north.
they can of course deny it. and they will likely raze both cities to the ground as decadent nests of shame and takfirihood if they can take over(and murder and enslave whoever they can catch).
Beirut with its fabled nightlife and wild black haired beauties would be levelled to the basement floor..

This here is not going to go down well with the bearded knife wielders imho..the most westernized city in the muslim Qaum perhaps (other than Londonistan ofcourse

)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W4ptiEoFPFc

'change is in the air' as they say...

p.s the mix of the ancient Phoenician trading and maritime race + french settlers in the crusader period in coastal cities has perhaps produced the devastating signature brunette beauty that place is justly known for. excellent at trade and commerce like some our trading communities. JEM saar among others had trod that part of the world quite intensively I believe.

pankajs · Post by **pankajs** » 09 Oct 2014 13:01

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world ... 83372.html

Isis in Kobani: John Kerry says preventing the fall of the town is 'not a strategic objective'

The civil war in Syria rocked Turkey – a Nato member state – when riots broke out in a number of cities, opening age-old wounds between Turks and Kurds.

As officials in Ankara continued to debate whether to take an active role in the fight against Isis, rival factions stirred old enmities. The country was rocked by explosive clashes in more than 20 cities as Kurds protested against the government’s perceived inaction over the plight of those living in the Kurdish city of Kobani, just a few miles inside Syrian territory.

...
Speaking tonight, the US Secretary of State, John Kerry, suggested that preventing the fall of Kobani was not a strategic US objective. “As horrific as it is to watch in real time what is happening in Kobani, you have to step back and understand the strategic objective,” he said.

“Notwithstanding the crisis in Kobani, the original targets of our efforts have been the command and control centres, the infrastructure.”

Mr Kerry said he expected Turkey to decide “over the next hours, days” what role it would play against Isis.

JE Menon · Post by **JE Menon** » 09 Oct 2014 13:44

Singha wrote:
'change is in the air' as they say...

p.s the mix of the ancient Phoenician trading and maritime race + french settlers in the crusader period in coastal cities has perhaps produced the devastating signature brunette beauty that place is justly known for. excellent at trade and commerce like some our trading communities. JEM saar among others had trod that part of the world quite intensively I believe.

Yes. I know the area well. Lebanon is a fantastic place, and the nightlife is sweet - the link does not do justice. I haven't been for a couple of years (since 2012), but even now surely clubs like White, Skybar, Library, Beiroof, etc.. must be doing well, and there must be a few newer ones... The culture is highly heterogenous, all religions (except Hinduism/Buddhism/Jainism/undiluted Sikhism), and numerous sects.

But it is a tinderbox, and can flare up at any time into an orgy of violence that is quite unique to the place because the Lebanese are sharp and hucksters, some interesting localised warfare innovations may be expected. I believe as of right now, the Christians are allied with the Shiites (namely Hizbollah & Amal), although again, there may be localised variations.

Still, I'd go there in a heartbeat, with the right company. Once, maybe 6 years ago, I was pulled up in a car by a bunch of gun-toting "soldiers" (M-16s so probably Lebanese Army); my local friend was cutting loose at 170 km/h on the road from Tripoli back to Beirut in a Merc 500 SEL Coupe. They got me out of the car, guns trained on me (probably because I looked more "businesslike"), and asked for passport which was in the hotel in Beirut. So there I was sitting by the roadside with a couple of young guys casually directing their barrels my way. My friend frantically calling all and sundry. Finally he got through to his father, who happened to know the local army commander who in turn called the unit and told them to let the fellow go. So, we got back into the car, and the bugger got straight back to 170 in no time...

Singha · Post by **Singha** » 09 Oct 2014 14:00

being sharp hustling salesmen seems to run in the yehudis too i heard.

JE Menon · Post by **JE Menon** » 09 Oct 2014 14:13

Yup... but we generally get along much better with the yehudis. In my experience. The Lebanese Christians tend to confuse themselves with Europeans, and so can be dismissive of SDREs as not cool enough for them. It can be useful on a transactional level, but it can also be unpleasant for those who give a shite. Personally, I don't.

hnair · Post by **hnair** » 09 Oct 2014 14:53

we unnecessarily blamed them for behaving like one, they ARE animals

NSFW news

A_Gupta · Post by **A_Gupta** » 09 Oct 2014 15:12

hnair wrote:we unnecessarily blamed them for behaving like one, they ARE animals

NSFW news

That should go viral! Join Taliban or ISIS, have your way with goats! No wonder the vision of 72 inspires them so! What a big step up from goats and donkeys!

vijaykarthik · Post by **vijaykarthik** » 09 Oct 2014 15:25

^^ its a poor ass that got rimmed!

Philip · Post by **Philip** » 09 Oct 2014 19:34

The world's most popular buffoon,"JoKer-rry (Mera naam JoKerry!) in fine form!
Step back folks and " step back and understand the strategic objective,”

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/

Kobani abandoned? Kerry says preventing fall of town is not a 'strategic objective'
Smoke from air strikes against Isis fighters in the Syrian town of Kobani can be seen from across the border in the village of Mursitpinar in the Sanliurfa province of south-eastern Turkey
And there is still no sign that Turkey will step in to stop Islamist militants gaining a foothold on its border with Syria

The civil war in Syria rocked Turkey – a Nato member state – when riots broke out in a number of cities, opening age-old wounds between Turks and Kurds.

As officials in Ankara continued to debate whether to take an active role in the fight against Isis, rival factions stirred old enmities. The country was rocked by explosive clashes in more than 20 cities as Kurds protested against the government’s perceived inaction over the plight of those living in the Kurdish city of Kobani, just a few miles inside Syrian territory.

Turkish tanks have lined up opposite Kobani, to guard against any incursion across the border by Isis fighters, but there seems to be little appetite to enter the besieged city to help the Kurdish population inside.

Turkey has taken in more than 180,000 refugees who fled Kobani, but has stopped short of joining a US-led coalition against the Sunni militants. Instead, it has called for the creation of a buffer zone and a no-fly zone, which it hopes would secure its border and limit the flow of refugees. The proposal has been rebuffed by the Americans.

Speaking tonight, the US Secretary of State, John Kerry, suggested that preventing the fall of Kobani was not a strategic US objective. “As horrific as it is to watch in real time what is happening in Kobani, you have to step back and understand the strategic objective,” he said. (!!!)

“Notwithstanding the crisis in Kobani, the original targets of our efforts have been the command and control centres, the infrastructure.”

Mr Kerry said he expected Turkey to decide “over the next hours, days” what role it would play against Isis.

The lack of assistance for Kurds in Kobani sparked more violent demonstrations across Turkey. At least 19 people died as Kurdish protesters threw Molotov cocktails and rocks at police. They were met with tear gas, sticks and water cannons.

The south-eastern city of Diyarbakir, the de facto Kurdish capital in Turkey, suffered the worst violence and highest death toll.

A curfew was extended until Thursday after at least eight people died during the protests.

Diyarbakir is one of six cities that remained on lockdown. “The city is under curfew until 6am and nobody can come in or out. There were no police on our streets last night – just us and them,” said Bayram Baran, a 25-year-old lawyer from Diyarbakir.

Protestors clashing with riot police during a demonstration in Diyarbakir, Turkey Protestors clashing with riot police during a demonstration in Diyarbakir, Turkey (EPA)

To further complicate Turkey’s political patchwork, much of the violence occurred between rival Kurdish factions, who attacked each other as well as local branches of several parties, including the ruling Justice and Development Party (AKP) and the Nationalist Movement Party (MHP).

While the political actors debated the future of the city, the battle for Kobani continued to rage as a flurry of US air strikes appeared to temporarily halt the advance of Isis.

Several thunderous booms were followed by mushroom clouds clearly visible from the Turkish side of the border.

Only a mile away, the Turkish town of Caykara rocked as explosion after explosion – each one louder than the last – hit Kobani.

Men watching the battle from the roof of the local mosque shouted: “Long live America. Long live America”, believing they were hearing US air strikes.

The low whirr of aircraft could be heard before the crashes. The strikes appeared to be helping Kurdish fighters, reportedly hitting a hospital used by Isis as a base in the east of the city, in which they already have a foothold. The People’s Protection Units (YPG), the Syrian franchise of the Kurdistan Workers Party (PKK), have been defending the city.

Smoke from air strikes against Isis in Kobani can be seen from across the border in Mursitpinar, Turkey Smoke from air strikes against Isis in Kobani can be seen from across the border in Mursitpinar, Turkey (Getty)

The battle concentrated on the eastern side as dusk fell, with YPG fighters and Isis militants clashing in street-by-street fighting.

“Isis tried to enter the city today with tanks, and a big truck full of weapons to bomb the YPG in the centre, but YPG were ready and they blew up the truck at about 4pm local time,” Zara Misto, editor of Welati.com, who has been reporting from inside Kobani since the beginning of the battle, told The Independent.

Kurds in the nearby town of Suruc took to the streets again, this time to support those living in Kobani.

Ekrem Ahmad, 40, a mechanic from Kobani said: “I’m happy to see Kurds as well as British, American, French and German people protesting in support of Kobani. It really raises our morale.

“The governments may not give us weapons, but their people give us hope.”

Philip · Post by **Philip** » 10 Oct 2014 18:33

All the bombing by the west/US not prevented ISIS from entering Kobane.The action,rather inaction of the Turks is intriguing.They were quick to denounce Assad and wanted him bombed into history,but are impotent when faced with the onslaught of ISIS on the very own border!

If the West truly wants to defeat ISIS then it should cut off its funding and sources of funding,by bombing the oil facilities under ISIS control.Without oil to sell and fund its barbaric campaign,ISIS will have to depend upon its secret and not so secret sponsors like Qatar,Wahaabi Saudis,et al,who are playing both ends against the middle to further their own survival and interests.

http://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/o ... e-surprise
Isis advance further into Kobani but face strong resistance
Group takes almost complete control of security quarter but rush for more troops could mean Kurdish fightback was unexpected

svenkat · Post by **svenkat** » 10 Oct 2014 18:42

Its indeed puzzling why ISIS is not being blown to pieces.Those of us who believed in western universalism would be at a loss to explain western action.But if understand Anglo-Saxon thinking,they really care for nothing except their interests.The whitey threw the muslims out of palestine to accomodate jews,support a sunni minority tyranny in Bahrain etc etc.Minorities rights/human rights etc are important/disregarded as per anglo-saxon interests.The whitey wants a sunni regime in Syria.Thats the end of the story.

Pratyush · Post by **Pratyush** » 10 Oct 2014 18:48

How do we know that Assad's forces are not the ones getting hammered by the western air forces. Under the guise of hitting the ISIS.

pankajs · Post by **pankajs** » 10 Oct 2014 19:04

Kobane is the card that both Turkey and the US are using against the other in trying to hammer out their terms of engagement in the region.

Turkey is willing to let Kobane fall to ISIS and see them move right up to the border plus face protests at home to get the deal it wants with the US. US is willing to let Kobane fall to get the deal it wants with Turkey and doing one small bombing raid just to show that it cares.

vijaykarthik · Post by **vijaykarthik** » 10 Oct 2014 19:12

Philip wrote:All the bombing by the west/US not prevented ISIS from entering Kobane.The action,rather inaction of the Turks is intriguing.They were quick to denounce Assad and wanted him bombed into history,but are impotent when faced with the onslaught of ISIS on the very own border!

If the West truly wants to defeat ISIS then it should cut off its funding and sources of funding,by bombing the oil facilities under ISIS control.Without oil to sell and fund its barbaric campaign,ISIS will have to depend upon its secret and not so secret sponsors like Qatar,Wahaabi Saudis,et al,who are playing both ends against the middle to further their own survival and interests.

http://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/o ... e-surprise
Isis advance further into Kobani but face strong resistance
Group takes almost complete control of security quarter but rush for more troops could mean Kurdish fightback was unexpected

I remember reading a report mentioning that they are indeed doing that. Looks like they have bombed close to 20-22% oil wells of those under IS control. most of them are mobile refineries or so I remember reading.

However, I also remember reading in the same article that a sr unnamed IS commander saying that they can repair the refineries in a few days and restart opns.

All said and done, I am still skeptical about what the Bhest is trying to achieve here.

pankajs · Post by **pankajs** » 10 Oct 2014 20:02

Slate ‏@Slate 7m7 minutes ago

A U.N. envoy has asked Turkey to let Kurdish fighters cross the border to defend Kobani: http://slate.me/1wb7Ox5

vijaykarthik · Post by **vijaykarthik** » 10 Oct 2014 20:55

http://www.reuters.com/article/2014/10/ ... me=topNews

Is this the right forum or is there a separate one for stuff on Iran?

gist: Iran top negotiator hints that an extension in talks is likely.

RSoami · Post by **RSoami** » 10 Oct 2014 21:25

If western airpower can force Taliban out of Kabul and Afghanistan how come they are failing against ISIS. At the very least they should be able to secure a city that is fiercely resisting. What is missing ?!

kmkraoind · Post by **kmkraoind** » 10 Oct 2014 23:36

Iran matches Saudi oil discounts in bear market for crude

vijaykarthik · Post by **vijaykarthik** » 11 Oct 2014 05:52

RSoami wrote:If western airpower can force Taliban out of Kabul and Afghanistan how come they are failing against ISIS. At the very least they should be able to secure a city that is fiercely resisting. What is missing ?!

Ground troops. And the absolute will to fight these guys. That's what is missing.

RSoami · Post by **RSoami** » 11 Oct 2014 10:45

vijaykarthik wrote:
RSoami wrote:If western airpower can force Taliban out of Kabul and Afghanistan how come they are failing against ISIS. At the very least they should be able to secure a city that is fiercely resisting. What is missing ?!
Ground troops. And the absolute will to fight these guys. That's what is missing.

Shia militias and Peshmerga are supplying ground troops just like northern alliance in Afghanistan

pankajs · Post by **pankajs** » 11 Oct 2014 12:58

Daniele Raineri ‏@DanieleRaineri 17h17 hours ago

Today Turkey released Halis Bayancuk, aka Abu Hanzala, a prominent figure of the Islamic State arrested in April

vishvak · Post by **vishvak** » 11 Oct 2014 15:12

NATO member just released Islamic mob boss while other NATO members are bombing the Islamic mob!

pankajs · Post by **pankajs** » 11 Oct 2014 16:54

Well after Curry said Kobane is not strategic Turkey had to do something ...

pankajs · Post by **pankajs** » 11 Oct 2014 17:08

http://bigstory.ap.org/article/dfcbca7f ... e-no-go-us

Despite demands, Syria no-fly zone a no-go for US

WASHINGTON (AP) — The Obama administration is boxed in by its promise to limit U.S. military engagement against Islamic State extremists, making it tough to agree to Turkey's condition for joining the fight in neighboring Syria.

Turkey and other U.S. allies want the U.S. to create a no-fly zone inside Syrian territory. Doing so would mean embracing one of two options President Barack Obama has long resisted: cooperating with Syrian President Bashar Assad's government or taking out its air defenses, action tantamount to war.

Airstrikes alone might not prevent Islamic militants from carrying out a massacre at a Kurdish border town, but for now the U.S. isn't steering a new course in its expanded, one-month counterterrorism effort in Iraq and Syria.

Demands are rising for the creation of a secure buffer on the Syrian side of its frontier with Turkey as the U.S. and its coalition members plead with the Turks to prevent the fall of Kobani, where the United Nations is warning of mass casualties. A "safe zone" would require Americans and their partners to protect ground territory and patrol the skies, meaning it would have to enforce a no-fly area.

Turkey, an American NATO ally, is demanding such a step for a variety of reasons. A buffer might stem the flow of refugees into Turkish territory. It also could provide Syrian opposition fighters with a staging ground for their rebellion to oust Assad — something that Turkey wants to see happen. The U.S., wary of the implications, wants the focus to remain on defeating Islamic State militants who've captured large areas of northern Syria and Iraq. Yet some of America's closest partners and Obama's fiercest foreign policy critics at home are sympathetic to Turkey's request.

France issued a statement this week announcing its support. The Republican head of the House Foreign Affairs Committee believes Arab countries would shoulder the load. Even Secretary of State John Kerry is describing a no-fly zone as worth examining.

Defense Secretary Chuck Hagel has shown little enthusiasm for the idea. American leaders are open to discussing a safe zone, he said this week, but creating one isn't "actively being considered."

"When it comes to the so-called buffer zone, no-fly zone, they've proposed these for some time," State Department spokeswoman Marie Harf said Friday. "We are not considering the implementation of this option at this time."

For the U.S. military, creating a protected corridor in Syria safe from the Islamic State group's ground attacks and Syria's air force raises obvious red flags. Gen. Martin Dempsey, the chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff, has estimated the endeavor would require hundreds of U.S. aircraft and cost as much as $1 billion a month to maintain, with no assurance of a change in battlefield momentum toward ending the Syrian civil war. That means U.S. enforcement could become open-ended.

The Pentagon learned that lesson in Iraq when it established a no-fly zone over northern Iraq to protect Iraqi Kurds and another over southern Iraq to protect Shiites — both in 1991 in the aftermath of the Gulf War. Those protective zones were enforced by U.S. Air Force and Navy pilots for a dozen years, until the March 2003 invasion of Iraq.

Implementing such zones in Syria would create a direct confrontation with one of the Middle East's most formidable air defenses, a system bolstered in recent years by top-of-the-line Russian hardware. The Syrians possess multiple surface-to-air missiles providing overlapping coverage and thousands of anti-aircraft guns capable of engaging attacking aircraft at lower levels. Moscow infuriated Washington last year when it confirmed that it would sell to Syria its S-300 anti-aircraft missiles, considered to be the cutting edge in aircraft interception technology.

For the Obama administration, the political challenges of a no-fly zone may be even greater.

Given the threat to U.S. pilots, the military would need rescue personnel stationed nearby, perhaps in Turkey or Iraq. If a U.S. flier were shot down, a rescue team would have to put boots on the ground in Syria, which Obama has repeatedly ruled out.

Engaging in direct military action against Assad's government also would severely stretch the United States' already tenuous claims that its intervention in Syria is legal under U.S. and international law. Many members of Congress are challenging the administration's justification for war on the basis of the Bush administration's 2001 authorization to fight al-Qaida. The Islamic State group grew out of the al-Qaida movement, but the two are now enemies. The U.S. has no U.N. mandate to wage war in Syria, against rebels or the government.

To avoid these pitfalls, the U.S. could try to reach an accommodation with Syria's government. But Obama has ruled out this step, too, even if Syrian forces are similarly battling the Islamic State militants, because of their atrocious list of alleged human rights violations and war crimes. These include massacres of civilians and opposition forces and several chemical weapons attacks, according to Western governments and human rights groups.

Washington is searching for an alternative approach with Turkey. On Friday, retired Marine Gen. John Allen, the U.S. special envoy, and his State Department deputy Brett McGurk met in Ankara with senior Turkish officials and NATO's secretary-general and discussed "where we think Turkey can contribute more, especially along the military line of effort," Harf said. She praised Turkey for agreeing to help train and equip moderate Syrian opposition forces and said U.S. military planners would hold further talks with their Turkish counterparts next week.

Kerry, meanwhile, is headed to the Middle East for some "coalition massaging" this weekend, according to U.S. officials. On the sidelines of a Gaza reconstruction conference in Cairo, he will discuss the effort against the Islamic State group with foreign ministers from Egypt, Qatar, Saudi Arabia and other Arab countries pressing for more robust American action. Kerry, however, isn't preparing to present a new direction in the strategy, said the officials, who weren't authorized to speak by name on the matter and demanded anonymity.

vijaykarthik · Post by **vijaykarthik** » 11 Oct 2014 18:05

RSoami wrote: Shia militias and Peshmerga are supplying ground troops just like northern alliance in Afghanistan

Fair enough.

I think:

a. Shia militants will do more only when there is an overt deal with Iran. Not much that Hezbollan / Qassem Suleimani can do when Sunni militants (and Sunni powers) are at it. [Most times I am confuse about who is a Sunni militant and Sunni govt force though. They look the same to me. Same with Shia]
b. YPK and PKK are far better than the peshmerga. I still cant believe that the media speaks so proudly about the peshmerga. Agreed that thety are good but w/o the hizbollah / YPK, they didn't have a chance even in Erbil.

Lalmohan · Post by **Lalmohan** » 11 Oct 2014 19:36

unfortunately all sides in this conflict are willing to let the kurds get it in the musharraf
they are doomed

Vikas · Post by **Vikas** » 11 Oct 2014 22:17

How is that Iran hasn't thrown in its army while Shias will be slaughtered in Iraq pretty soon If Baghdad falls to ISIS. Other than Khan, there is rarely a country that would put money where its mouth is and commit resources and ground troops.
Looks like everyone is playing waiting game for the eventual slicing and dicing of Iraq so that everyone can have its own piece of pie. Irony would be if Kuwait gets a piece of Iraq and absorbs it as its own province.

pankajs · Post by **pankajs** » 11 Oct 2014 22:56

Guardian news ‏@guardiannews 3m3 minutes ago

Iran warns of risk to Israel's security should US seek overthrow of Assad http://gu.com/p/42c7q/tw

NDTV ‏@ndtv 6m6 minutes ago

Kurdish leader threatens Turkish peace deal collapse http://www.ndtv.com/article/world/kurdi ... pse-605409 …