India Border Watch: Security and Operations

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Re: India Border Watch: Security and Operations

Postby member_22733 » 15 Oct 2014 07:35

Creating plasts in any city in Bakistan in response to terror wont help much. They create plasts by themselves everyday, there are a lot of Baki cannon fodder there.

Now a Marriot style plast right in the middle of pindi cadet school or near the academy where os-ama was hiding would be a good way to go. That would make a lot of RAPE uniformed jeedhardis and their munnas meet their 72. Its a win-win: TTP/Bad Taliban will be happy, Balochis will be happy, Sindhis will be happy, India will be happy and RAPEs would get the message since those areas (Pindi/Abot-abad) are all pretty much no-go areas for TTP/Bad and good tellibunnies.

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Re: India Border Watch: Security and Operations

Postby member_23360 » 15 Oct 2014 07:43

emulating israeli's would be better, targeting individuals ..

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Re: India Border Watch: Security and Operations

Postby member_22733 » 15 Oct 2014 07:49

^^^ yes that as well. Precision targeting of handlers. Ideally they should meet their 72, in a very violent way if possible, before whatever terror they planned to do was acted upon in anyway. For that to happen, a deep penetration of the Baki state through the back door is necessary. Call it track3 offensive.

Let us live up to the complaints of meddling in Balochistan, it is a perfect backdoor.

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Re: India Border Watch: Security and Operations

Postby Victor » 15 Oct 2014 08:13

Nobody in their right mind will want a nuke exchange but the fact remains that pakis have never been in right mind from day one. Straight question is do we consider sacrificing some of our cities for the permanent eradication of sh!tistan and reoccupation by Indics after the radioactivity dies down? I think the answer is yes, even though we suspect strongly that the pakis are nuke-less. This needs to be made clear as daylight so even a retard sees it. If they sense that we are so fed up of them that we will cut off our right arm to be rid of them forever, they are finished.

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Re: India Border Watch: Security and Operations

Postby Prem » 15 Oct 2014 09:05

Paki admiral have gone to meet his Lahori Air Chief. IMHO, they are fearing action over high sea and seeking air cover. This also means Khujli in Mush is now unbearable for them. Will luv to see Augusta taken out . One Munn Jalebi promised if Paki Sub is blasted away.

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Re: India Border Watch: Security and Operations

Postby krishnan » 15 Oct 2014 09:13

radioactivity dies down ?? what about the nuke fall out

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Re: India Border Watch: Security and Operations

Postby Prem » 15 Oct 2014 09:29

Doctrine of graduated escalation
http://www.thehindu.com/opinion/lead/do ... 501078.ece

Mortar-for-bullet response

Mr. Modi’s cautious, measured start has masked his discreet gradualism. Border and other provocations are moulding his policy approach, founded on the premise that preventing hostile actions hinges on India’s capacity and political will to impose deterrent costs in response to any aggression. In Mr. Modi’s policy of graduated escalation, pressure on the adversary begins at low levels and then progressively increases in response to the target’s continued provocations and aggression.
There was no Indian reprisal to the Herat attack, and India’s response to the summertime border shootings was circumspect. But, in keeping with the doctrine of graduated escalation, this month’s Pakistani machine-gun fire along the LoC brought a heavy response, including retaliation with 81-mm mortars, which have a range of up to five kilometres. Mr. Modi wasn’t exaggerating when he said publicly, “Pakistan has been taught a befitting lesson.”
The Modi government, by building a range of options, including to neuter Pakistan’s nuclear blackmail, is indicating that Pakistani aggression will attract increasing costs. If the ISI is planning new attacks in India, with the intent to fob them off as the work of al-Qaeda’s supposed new India franchise, it can be sure that it will invite an Indian response imposing serious costs on the entire Pakistani security establishment.Mr. Modi is clearly signalling that India’s response to the Pakistani strategy to inflict death by a thousand cuts will no longer be survival by a thousand bandages, but punitive so as to bolster deterrence and mend conduct. Given that the “do nothing” approach allowed India to be continually gored, prudent gradualism has been a long time coming.

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Re: India Border Watch: Security and Operations

Postby pushkar.bhat » 15 Oct 2014 09:35

This entire thread has got derailed and requires a clean-up. Some of the BRF-ites are taking some sort of pills now a days it seems. Folks get real and stop day dreaming..

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Re: India Border Watch: Security and Operations

Postby SanjayC » 15 Oct 2014 09:52

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Re: India Border Watch: Security and Operations

Postby Shrinivasan » 15 Oct 2014 10:26

The Pigs have restarted their shelling today... this time in the LOC - Kerni and Saujjian sectors of Poonch.
http://indianexpress.com/article/india/india-others/pakistani-troops-resumes-mortar-shelling-along-loc-india-retaliates/ now the retaliation is from the IA now... Probably they have been so bady beaten along the IB that they are trying to reopen another front.

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Re: India Border Watch: Security and Operations

Postby parshuram » 15 Oct 2014 10:33

Last Ditch Effort to send Jihadis across before Passes close due to snow. Stakes are high this year for them due to Assembly Elections. Challenge for GOI is to stop these as regular event every year ....

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Re: India Border Watch: Security and Operations

Postby habal » 15 Oct 2014 11:05

Shrinivasan wrote:The Pigs have restarted their shelling today... this time in the LOC - Kerni and Saujjian sectors of Poonch.
http://indianexpress.com/article/india/india-others/pakistani-troops-resumes-mortar-shelling-along-loc-india-retaliates/ now the retaliation is from the IA now... Probably they have been so bady beaten along the IB that they are trying to reopen another front.


they believe they have an advantage in LoC in accessibility and stocks.

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Re: India Border Watch: Security and Operations

Postby Shrinivasan » 15 Oct 2014 11:26

saurabh.mhapsekar wrote:OT: The Balakznization of TSP has been predicted since USSR collapse. Hasn't happened in 2 1/2 decades as the rulers have been bankrolled by US and PRC. Till that stops we are getting ahead of ourselves by predicting their doom gloom.
In the past a couple of decades even the view in Desh was that a Stable TSP is to our advantage.. this has been changing of late. if Balkanization is the solution... this will happen pretty soon... i dont agree with your overall view of the post.

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Re: India Border Watch: Security and Operations

Postby RoyG » 15 Oct 2014 11:27

It is going to be a very graduated response from our side. It will give us time to build up our capabilities. We will strike them hard in a few years.

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Re: India Border Watch: Security and Operations

Postby Shrinivasan » 15 Oct 2014 11:35

Sagar G wrote:
saurabh.mhapsekar wrote:^^^Kind of missing my point completely.
I was initially responding to a post suggesting shelling Lahore and other civilian areas in TSP as a response to current LOC confrontation.
I had read your previous posts as well. They kill our civilians we kill theirs, plain and simple. If they bring bigger guns and target deep inside our territory we will do the same with more fire power though. The policy is good and given the whining done by Pottysthan the policy is working.
Sagar, the policy followed by Desh is simple.. if Pakees hit Desh with small arms, we will hit them back in the same sector with overwhelming force to cause heavy damage... mortar for mortar... arty to arty... all this from static positions across the border.
this does not give pakis to cry escalation... this keeps the pot boiling gently. the level for increasing the heat is in our hands.

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Re: India Border Watch: Security and Operations

Postby Shrinivasan » 15 Oct 2014 11:51

williams wrote:TSPA ofsars are crazy, but also cowards. They would like their cannon fooder foot soldiers to die but will not be crazy to forgo their life or their families. So this whole talk about TSPA will nuke Mumbai even if all of TSP is nuked is a dumb argument. Even if there is a slight threat to their life, they will do down hill sking.
At the first sign of brewing New-Clear detergent usage, RAPE will make a beeline to UKistan, Dubai and even Iran. TSPA will not hesitate to blind itself in both its eyes if it can give India a black eye.. Desh feels TSPA will use tactical nukes on Indian formations. this is why all our armored Regiments are NBC capable.

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Re: India Border Watch: Security and Operations

Postby jamwal » 15 Oct 2014 11:59

krishnan wrote:radioactivity dies down ?? what about the nuke fall out


Most of radioactive material in a nuke is vapourised within first few moments and doesn't cause as much radioactivity as a nuclear plant meltdown. Compare Hiroshima, Nagasaki with Chernobyl.

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Re: India Border Watch: Security and Operations

Postby Shrinivasan » 15 Oct 2014 12:26

Bheeshma wrote:Modi and BSF have set the template for any future engagements between India and porkiland. There is no need to step back now. Continue the trend of paying them with 10X damage that they can inflict. It shouldn't be 10X the number of shells, it should be the monetary and lifes lost on that side that must be 10 times.
Monetary loss will be negligible as there is no industry or urban cluster near the border in Mortar range. Unless we breach some barrage on the Paki side or let a deluge of water flow downstream. I think we should continue with 10x damage this could be with a heavier attack, more guns, longer firing, even opening up more fronts after destroying posts which fired on us.

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Re: India Border Watch: Security and Operations

Postby chaanakya » 15 Oct 2014 12:31

Even NATO is violating Bakis on PAK_AF border.
Yawn reports.

Nato helicopters violate Pakistani airspace near Pak-Afghan border

PESHAWAR: Nato gunship helicopters violated Pakistani airspace and entered Pakistani territory where they stayed for 10 minutes before returning, official sources told Dawn.

At least five helicopters were seen flying near the Pak-Afghan border and two of them entered Pakistani territory in Torkham and Pasidkhel.

The helicopters remained in Pakistani airspace for 10 minutes and returned without any action.

Sources said the helicopters crossed over through Shamshad mountains situated between Pakistan and Afghanistan.

A few days back, Nato had carried out a massive assault on Taliban positions in the Shamshad mountains and had killed scores of Afghan Taliban members.

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Re: India Border Watch: Security and Operations

Postby Shrinivasan » 15 Oct 2014 12:32

Bheeshma wrote:Strike first. Karachi ship yard, naval base, GHQ, Quetta and pindi and lawhore. Where ever Rape have interests.
Any of these would up the ante and TSPA would ratchet up the nuclear card. covert action with plausible deniability would hurt the puke badly. more importantly we should start providing moral, diplomatic and martian support to different groups in Shitisthan.

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Re: India Border Watch: Security and Operations

Postby chaanakya » 15 Oct 2014 12:33

Next we will see EyeRaan violating Bakistan.

Whoever finds an opportunity does so with Bakis. Only Hindustan was left ans now they have also doing so only 10 times more vigourously :(( :((

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Re: India Border Watch: Security and Operations

Postby Shrinivasan » 15 Oct 2014 12:54

habal wrote:
Shrinivasan wrote:The Pigs have restarted their shelling today... this time in the LOC - Kerni and Saujjian sectors of Poonch.
http://indianexpress.com/article/india/india-others/pakistani-troops-resumes-mortar-shelling-along-loc-india-retaliates/ now the retaliation is from the IA now... Probably they have been so bady beaten along the IB that they are trying to reopen another front.
they believe they have an advantage in LoC in accessibility and stocks.
If Pakees believe this, they are just living in a cuckoo land. On the LOC, battle hardened IA troops are manning the lines, here the available firepower is higher. Pukes are in a lower altitude for most parts, the passes which are currently open are covered by multiple observation posts and UAVs. IA with its surveillance capabilities as well as humint across the border will have ample notice of any action by the pakees. If TSPA has higher manpower and firepower along the LoC, so does the IA. An additional advantage is, IA is well prepared for any action.
Two things are worrying
1) Ground based sensors could be damaged / washed away in the floods, hence IA could be blinded in some sectors.
2) non-unformed jihadis who have already come in, could launch rear attacks on IA lines or indulge in sabotage.

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Re: India Border Watch: Security and Operations

Postby kmkraoind » 15 Oct 2014 13:34

India plans 1,800-km highway along China border in Arunachal Pradesh

Image

The proposed highway, with an estimated cost of over Rs.40,000 crore, will pass through Tawang, East Kameng, Upper Subansiri, West Siang, Upper Siang, Dibang Valley, Desali, Chaglagam, Kibito, Dong, Hawai and Vijaynagar in bordering areas of Arunachal Pradesh.

The government has already relaxed environmental clearances for border area projects.

"The aim is to construct a seamless travel from one part of the state to another. As the terrain is not smooth along the border areas, we will intersect the highway with tunnels so that the link is not broken anywhere," said a senior MHA official.

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Re: India Border Watch: Security and Operations

Postby member_28714 » 15 Oct 2014 14:07

^^^ This will be one of the most beautiful drives in India when complete.

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Re: India Border Watch: Security and Operations

Postby James B » 15 Oct 2014 15:40



China ko mirchi lagi

TimesNow: Don't do anything to complicate the situation along the border: China on India's infrastructure plans on McMohan line in Arunachal Pradesh

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Re: India Border Watch: Security and Operations

Postby VinodTK » 15 Oct 2014 16:21

Don't make any move to complicate situation at border: China to India
Beijing: China on Wednesday sharply reacted to India's plans to construct a road network along the McMohan line in Arunachal Pradesh and expressed hope that India will not take any action which may complicate the situation before a final settlement is reached to end the boundary dispute.

"We still need to verify the specifics. The boundary issue between China and India is left by colonial past. We need to deal with this issue properly," Foreign Ministry spokesman Hong Lie told a media briefing here.

He was reacting to comments by Union Minister of State for Home Affairs Kiren Rijiju stating that plans are afoot to construct a road network along the international boundary from Mago-Thingbu in Tawang to Vijaynagar in Changlang district of Arunachal Pradesh to match the China's infrastructure development.

"There is a dispute about the eastern part of the China- India border. Before final settlement is reached we hope that India will not take any action that may further complicate the situation," Hong said.

"We should jointly safeguard the peace and tranquillity of the border area and create favourable conditions for the final settlement of the border issue," he said.

India's concerns arise out of extensive road, rail air network developed by China in Tibet which could play pivotal in moving the troops and equipment at a greater speed in the rugged Himalayan region.

Besides extensive highways, China's rail network came close to Sikkim border and Beijing has announced plans to build a new rail network up to Nyingchi which is close to the border of Arunachal Pradesh.

China has build about five airports in the Tibet region.

Beijing asserts that the infrastructure development is part of efforts to develop remote parts of Tibet.

China claims Arunachal Pradesh as a part of Southern Tibet and disputes McMohan line.

Chinese position is that the border dispute is confined to 2,000 kms mostly on Arunachal Pradesh where as India asserts that the dispute covered the western side of the border spanning to about 4,000 km.
:
:

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Re: India Border Watch: Security and Operations

Postby rohitvats » 15 Oct 2014 16:43

Tell me, this is not a dream? Remember the endless debates about India lacking lateral east-west connectivity along McMahon line? And how it means that forces can't be switched between sectors? And therefore, how each sector needs to be over compensated by way of troops and support paraphernalia?

This road running along entire Arunachal Border from one tri junction in east (India Myanmar China),to another in west (India Bhutan Tibet) provides exactly this capability. China has such a road in Tibet opposite central and eastern AP across the ridge which forms our border. Access roads from this east west road then go towards Indian border. Their road runs along the Brahmaputra valley and gives them ability to laterally move troops between sectors.

But this is a very daunting task.

Another important point: there are people with ideas to better the country in all aspect - infra along China border in this case. But it seems a system which thought about national interest and sought ways and means to improve them did not exist. This road idea did not simply arise out of blue. I'm sure some patriotic bureaucrat or IA had this idea and might have even suggested it. But alas, those in power had other interests in mind.

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Re: India Border Watch: Security and Operations

Postby nash » 15 Oct 2014 16:46

This road not only has strategic but also has economic benefit to the region. First porkis get aware of their place in world order and now China will know there is different wind blowing in New Delhi. Finally we have got lion-heart PM. :twisted:

Only thing is execution: how fast this can be done. If the construction has started multiple location and developers follow 1/5 or 1/6 or even 1/10 of Nitin Gadkari target(30km/day) then this can be done in a year or 2.

Also this roads can be the gateways of electricity and communication.

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Re: India Border Watch: Security and Operations

Postby sarkar » 15 Oct 2014 17:28

George wrote:^^^ This will be one of the most beautiful drives in India when complete.

Perfect for a bike ride. The new tourism destination of India. Arunachal. Shayadari ranges can take a break now.

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Re: India Border Watch: Security and Operations

Postby srin » 15 Oct 2014 17:37

What an irony - their highway through Indian Aksai Chin was the precursor to 1962 war. And they haven't built any road through Shaksgam valley ?

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Re: India Border Watch: Security and Operations

Postby deejay » 15 Oct 2014 18:00

@nash, I have some personal insights on road construction in Arunachal. I have seen the road building by Border Roads (in ~ 99 - 2000). Road building there will be slow. Back then a track was being cut across the hills along the multiple river valleys in Arunachal. It was slow work. Border Roads engineers told me that Himalayas are unstable and given to sinking and land slides so puccka roads (level 09 roads, IIRC) on these dirt tracks will be done later - at least 06 to 07 years later once the things settle after the initial cutting and blasting. I have not been there since so I am not sure if the roads have been metalled.

The new road proposed will jump ridges, go through passes and not along any river valley but all along on hills. If they can do it in 02 years, these boys will have achieved a singular feat very difficult to replicate globally. Plus, all along these roads will have to be supported by Air Logistics as no proper township or human habitat with proper infrastructure exists. This will make fast paced construction difficult as men and material will both be limited.

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Re: India Border Watch: Security and Operations

Postby SaiK » 15 Oct 2014 18:00

sky-high ‏@saikanomie 5m5 minutes ago
China Raising Concerns about Arunachal roads. And @ndtv says that is understandable. WHAT THE FU(K! time to shutdown @ndtv

x-tweet!

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Re: India Border Watch: Security and Operations

Postby nash » 15 Oct 2014 18:43

deejay wrote:
The new road proposed will jump ridges, go through passes and not along any river valley but all along on hills. If they can do it in 02 years, these boys will have achieved a singular feat very difficult to replicate globally. Plus, all along these roads will have to be supported by Air Logistics as no proper township or human habitat with proper infrastructure exists. This will make fast paced construction difficult as men and material will both be limited.


I think the maintenance is much more important than construction itself, yes the construction on this hilly areas is a daunting task but good thing is this government taking up this issues in the beginning and if they able to do so continuously and then this project can be done in this government time frame, atleast and if we go by statement of Nitin gadkari in parliament then there is very much possibility that this roads can be made of concrete and involvement of more or big private players in road projects of border areas, apart from BRO, can make all the difference.

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Re: India Border Watch: Security and Operations

Postby saje » 15 Oct 2014 19:21

rohitvats wrote:I'm sure some patriotic bureaucrat or IA had this idea and might have even suggested it.
Could be the idea of someone who is a bit of both - for e.g. the honourable 'Minister of State for the North East'.

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Re: India Border Watch: Security and Operations

Postby ravip » 15 Oct 2014 19:37

If any one didn't notice, the kiren rijiju statement on border road was made purposefully to play on the psych of Chinese delegation on road development which is visiting India tomorrow... And it is said credit of instigating of such statement should go to Mr. Doval....thank you Mr. Doval for being the voice of Jingo's in PMO.

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Re: India Border Watch: Security and Operations

Postby Anujan » 15 Oct 2014 20:22

In Admin Mode

RoyG: Please tone down your post. We dont want speculation which will draw a moral equivalence between India and a terrorist state.

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Re: India Border Watch: Security and Operations

Postby Rahul M » 15 Oct 2014 20:51

deejay wrote:@nash, I have some personal insights on road construction in Arunachal. I have seen the road building by Border Roads (in ~ 99 - 2000). Road building there will be slow. Back then a track was being cut across the hills along the multiple river valleys in Arunachal. It was slow work. Border Roads engineers told me that Himalayas are unstable and given to sinking and land slides so puccka roads (level 09 roads, IIRC) on these dirt tracks will be done later - at least 06 to 07 years later once the things settle after the initial cutting and blasting. I have not been there since so I am not sure if the roads have been metalled.

deejay, which areas are you talking about ?

the stability thing is correct and 4-5 years would be a good time to finish it.

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Re: India Border Watch: Security and Operations

Postby jamwal » 15 Oct 2014 20:57

Constructing roads in Himalayan mountains is one thing, keeping them serviceable is even tougher. It's going to take huge effort and money to built the roadway.

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Re: India Border Watch: Security and Operations

Postby deejay » 15 Oct 2014 21:06

^^^ I am talking of all valleys except TAWANG axis. This included the Daporijo -Nacho- Taksing route; Along - Inkiong-Mechuka and Inkiong-Tuting route; Anini - Malinye - Malinye route; etc. Hayuliang to Kibitoo metal road existed back then. Hayuliang - Chaklagaon axis construction was started.

I believe, a study by China Study Group in the 90's was part of the reason for this. Even the new road approved was discussed then but not attempted (speaking from memory only).

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Re: India Border Watch: Security and Operations

Postby Bhaskar_T » 15 Oct 2014 21:23

This road running along entire Arunachal Border from one tri junction in east (India Myanmar China),to another in west (India Bhutan Tibet) provides exactly this capability. China has such a road in Tibet opposite central and eastern AP across the ridge which forms our border. Access roads from this east west road then go towards Indian border. Their road runs along the Brahmaputra valley and gives them ability to laterally move troops between sectors.


Rohit ji - I tried understanding the Chinese road you were talking about, in Google Maps. Which road you are talking in the below map which gives Chinese this flexibility of moving troops. Are you referring to the road pointed by red arrow which is G318 connecting Nyingchi to Lhasa? OR you are referring to the green arrow marked road which at two places is roughly 50kms away from the border shown by 2 black arrows? Kindly clarify to help in understanding.

PS - Google said it Upper Subansiri, Upper Siang, Dibang Valley, Desai H.Q., Chaglagam H.Q., Kibito are outside of driving/walking range :-? . So if this project is planned, kudos to GOI, MOD.

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