Pakistan arms sales, ops, doctrine, etc

sudhan · Post by **sudhan** » 28 Oct 2014 04:39

This ain't no propagandu.. All propagandu pics have the TFTAs jumping off a truck while left most TFTA rehearses his daily pakistan posishun! For eg..

Propagandu my musharaff! Get your facts right, people!

shiv · Post by **shiv** » 28 Oct 2014 08:28

Gagan wrote:
Yrrah! Why, Oh Why? did they have to include the air rifle in that picture?

Yup. In fact it does look like an air rifle to me.

shiv · Post by **shiv** » 28 Oct 2014 08:40

Take that!

And that!

And another!

Whoops -

No Not this one

Anujan · Post by **Anujan** » 28 Oct 2014 09:05

There was also this famous ISPR picture of Kayani floating (which yours truly enhanced)

member_28756 · Post by **member_28756** » 28 Oct 2014 09:59

Hmmmm....Interesting looking missile.

jamwal · Post by **jamwal** » 28 Oct 2014 13:02

That jihadi with white beard is carrying a MP-5 ?
What gives ?

ravip · Post by **ravip** » 28 Oct 2014 13:34

I remember seeing a TV show where in the paki reporter (some wajat khan, he was wearing a cowboy hat in the show), asks why mp5 is not issued in large numbers. The reply was, it is the best gun available to pak army and needs experience to use it. So cannot be issued to every one and waste such precious resources.

A perfect example of how beggars justifying there lack resources.

Singha · Post by **Singha** » 28 Oct 2014 14:07

the bandar is carrying the CM400 anti ship missile. claimed as 250km and mach4.

my personal estimate is 75 km (hi-hi-lo), 100kg warhead and mach2.

member_28756 · Post by **member_28756** » 28 Oct 2014 14:14

Singha wrote:the bandar is carrying the CM400 anti ship missile. claimed as 250km and mach4.

my personal estimate is 75 km (hi-hi-lo), 100kg warhead and mach2.

The stupid missile is too big for the plane.

Aditya_V · Post by **Aditya_V** » 28 Oct 2014 14:28

CM 400 is not a cruise missile but suppossed to follow a ballistic profile, given its small size as shown the photo, I doubt it can even carry a 100KG warhead, probably 50KG and I doubt it can have any meaningful ballistic range, hell even a Pinaka will have more fuel than that.

Singha · Post by **Singha** » 28 Oct 2014 17:26

Shhh...its a Mach4 carrier killer.

in reality a failed cheen project which they are not interested in using but want some ROI on the development budget. yes it surely will fly high and then probably coast event to get 75km...might be powered all the way for say 40km range.

member_28722 · Post by **member_28722** » 30 Oct 2014 05:23

CM-400 is a load of tripe

Suppossed to be 400kg missile (of which 150kg is warhead), which can go for 250 km including a hypersonic terminal phase and sink a 4000 ton ship in a single hit.
Brahmos is 3-ton ... 300km supersonic with a 300kg warhead

Bishwa · Post by **Bishwa** » 30 Oct 2014 07:21

Is the missiles carrying the plane or is the plane carrying the missiles? Sorry, it is not clear from the photo

Yagnasri · Post by **Yagnasri** » 30 Oct 2014 09:22

Bishwa wrote:Is the missiles carrying the plane or is the plane carrying the missiles? Sorry, it is not clear from the photo

Both are carried by Allah's will sir. That is why it has 10000km range and 2 maga ton warhead.

Singha · Post by **Singha** » 30 Oct 2014 09:44

jokes apart anyone with a clue would look at the missile and say its not a mach4 carrier killa missile with a 250km range.

its akin to the idea someone floated about using 10,000 small RC aircraft loaded with 250gm of warhead in a 'intelligent locust swarm' attack to take out a CVN. minor engg details like how to launch 10,000 birds together, how to move them on land to track movements of the CVN, range, speed, ability to fly in high winds and targeting were left as a exercise for the student.

Kartik · Post by **Kartik** » 30 Oct 2014 12:52

Aditya_V wrote:CM 400 is not a cruise missile but suppossed to follow a ballistic profile, given its small size as shown the photo, I doubt it can even carry a 100KG warhead, probably 50KG and I doubt it can have any meaningful ballistic range, hell even a Pinaka will have more fuel than that.

nevertheless, a very high terminal velocity thanks to the ballistic trajectory means that even a 50 kg warhead can cause significant damage to any surface warship. This is a threat, one of the more serious ones to emerge of late from the west.

Kartik · Post by **Kartik** » 30 Oct 2014 13:00

saurabh.mhapsekar wrote:CM-400 is a load of tripe
Suppossed to be 400kg missile (of which 150kg is warhead), which can go for 250 km including a hypersonic terminal phase and sink a 4000 ton ship in a single hit.
Brahmos is 3-ton ... 300km supersonic with a 300kg warhead

Don't know where you got your info on the CM-400AKG being a 400 kg missile..it weighs 940 kgs as per Janes, but not sure what the warhead weight is.

JF-17 flying with CM-400AKG ASM

Aditya_V · Post by **Aditya_V** » 30 Oct 2014 13:54

Nevertheless if the missile was really working anywhere near its claims

a) Chinese would have inducted in large nos and intergrated with J-11, J-10A and J-10B's etc., to scare US aircraft carriers etc.

b) Many West Asian, African, South American, ASEAN countries would have lining up and buying the missile in large numbers on J-7's or buy the JF-17 in large numbers.

Something does not add up here.

arun · Post by **arun** » 01 Nov 2014 09:38

X Posted from the “Baluchistan: The Story of Another Pakistan Military Genocide” thread.

Punjabi dominated security agencies of the Islamic Republic of Pakistan continue their genocidal programme in Balochistan to suppress the Baloch struggle for freedom.

Balochistan National Party (BNP) leader Sardar Abdul Rauf Mengal reveals “that in the past 18 months 162 mutilated bodies had been found and 218 people were killed in targeted attacks. About 3,000 people were still missing.”

Further reveals that “intelligence agencies had abducted Laljan Baloch — former chief of the Balochistan Students Organisation and one of the central leaders of his party, from Uthal on Wednesday and moved him to an unknown place.”:

BNP accuses agencies of abducting its central leader

abhik · Post by **abhik** » 01 Nov 2014 09:58

Singha wrote:jokes apart anyone with a clue would look at the missile and say its not a mach4 carrier killa missile with a 250km range.

Mach 4 might be its max speed, which it should attain at the end of its solid booster burn. But by the time it reaches its target its speed would have reduced significantly.

member_28756 · Post by **member_28756** » 01 Nov 2014 10:14

Aditya_V wrote:Nevertheless if the missile was really working anywhere near its claims

a) Chinese would have inducted in large nos and intergrated with J-11, J-10A and J-10B's etc., to scare US aircraft carriers etc.

b) Many West Asian, African, South American, ASEAN countries would have lining up and buying the missile in large numbers on J-7's or buy the JF-17 in large numbers.

Something does not add up here.

I think the Chinese uses YJ-12 for their hypersonic missile which is not constraint by the 300 KM limit in range for export limit.

Aditya_V · Post by **Aditya_V** » 01 Nov 2014 11:46

But the Yj-12 is a ramjet and still the parabolic flight path with targeting of a ship has never been demonstrated unlike Brahmos and other missiles which have had many tests.

member_28756 · Post by **member_28756** » 01 Nov 2014 11:52

Aditya_V wrote:But the Yj-12 is a ramjet and still the parabolic flight path with targeting of a ship has never been demonstrated unlike Brahmos and other missiles which have had many tests.

I guess you know more about their missiles than me thanks for the info.

Singha · Post by **Singha** » 01 Nov 2014 13:55

they are trying to use a known weakness in older ships radar that targets attacking from a steep high angle are not tracked
harpoon ASM too has a pop up dive mode for terminal phase to exploit this.
the modern radars might have much better high angle coverage.

AGM-84D: Harpoon Block 1C upgrade introduced in 1985 with increased range, selectable pop up or sea skimming mode, ECCM improvements and plottable waypoints.

member_20067 · Post by **member_20067** » 02 Nov 2014 23:16

http://www.dawn.com/news/1141375/siache ... wild-roses

NRao · Post by **NRao** » 07 Nov 2014 06:43

Veteran U.S. diplomat's home searched

FBI agents searched the home of veteran diplomat and Pakistan expert Ambassador Robin Raphel in October as part of a counterintelligence investigation, three U.S. government officials told CNN.

The officials describe the investigation as a counterintelligence investigation, which typically refers to allegations of spying on behalf of foreign governments. Officials declined to describe the exact nature of the investigation

member_28722 · Post by **member_28722** » 07 Nov 2014 06:57

Kartik wrote: Don't know where you got your info on the CM-400AKG being a 400 kg missile..it weighs 940 kgs as per Janes, but not sure what the warhead weight is.

JF-17 flying with CM-400AKG ASM

That was just a joke on the info on Wiki
And even with 910 kg, a 100-240km range hypersonic missile is impossible to be so light. The Russians would have had one much before the Chinese.

Aditya_V · Post by **Aditya_V** » 07 Nov 2014 08:33

NRao wrote:Veteran U.S. diplomat's home searched

FBI agents searched the home of veteran diplomat and Pakistan expert Ambassador Robin Raphel in October as part of a counterintelligence investigation, three U.S. government officials told CNN.

The officials describe the investigation as a counterintelligence investigation, which typically refers to allegations of spying on behalf of foreign governments. Officials declined to describe the exact nature of the investigation

Was she on the payroll of Saudis? Remember her anti India rants in 1992-93 literally wanting a regime change in India unless they hand over all of Kashmir to Pakistan.

Singha · Post by **Singha** » 07 Nov 2014 10:05

very interesting indeed.

Psaki added that Raphel is "no longer a department employee."
At the time of the raid, Raphel, a retired career Foreign Service officer, was an adviser on Pakistan under a limited, renewable contract to the State Department's Special Representative for Afghanistan and Pakistan, where she administered nonmilitary aid and economic grants. It is unclear, however, whether the inquiry is related to her work on Pakistan.

Senior State Department officials said Raphel's security clearance was pulled last month, at which time she was placed on administrative leave. Her contract, which expired on November 2, was not renewed.

tsarkar · Post by **tsarkar** » 07 Nov 2014 15:36

^^ That woman is a Jehadi Jane.

He husband, Ambassador to Pakistan, died within a year of his divorce with her, in the same plane with Zia that exploded. She passionately believed Kashmir was disputed territory. She speaks Urdu like a local, and was the de-facto US Ambassador to Taliban when Clinton wanted Central Asian oil

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Robin_Raphel

Raphel was instrumental in orchestrating the State Department's opening of diplomatic relations with the Taliban shortly after its takeover of Kabul.[12]:300 A senior Unocal executive went so far as to comment that the pipeline project would be far easier to implement with the Taliban in control, a none-too-subtle reference to the need for central control in Afghanistan to undertake a project of the size, complexity and cost the Texas-based oil giant was considering.[11]:166 Unocal's consortium also included Saudi Arabia's Delta Oil, Pakistan's Crescent Group and Gazprom of Russia. The project involved building an 890-kilometer gas pipeline that would carry 1.9 billion cubic feet of gas to Pakistan each day.[13]:95 Unocal held detailed discussions with Taliban representatives in Houston in December 1997, striking a deal[14] that would later collapse under the weight of rising U.S. and Afghan domestic political pressures against the Taliban's record on human rights, education and treatment of its women.

During her tenure in India, she met and encouraged Sikh & Kashmiri separatists.

Anyways, Karma always catches up...

Austin · Post by **Austin** » 11 Nov 2014 12:40

Pakistan Navy - Submarine Force - Documentary

SSridhar · Post by **SSridhar** » 12 Nov 2014 19:31

Deal to sell MI-35 helicopters 'politically approved': Russian envoy - DAWN

Russian envoy to Pakistan Alexey Dedov on Wednesday said that the MI-35 helicopter deal with Moscow and Islamabad is "politically approved", Radio Pakistan reported.

In an interview with Radio Pakistan, Dedov said that the Russian Defense Minister Sergey Shoygu will visit Islamabad soon. The report further stated that Alexey Dedov said the deal between Pakistan and Russia will help combat terrorism.

While Dedov said the deal has been "politically approved", further negotiations on details of the political-commercial contract are in progress.

The ambassador also said that Russian Defense Minister Sergey Shoygu has talks with Pakistani counterparts on his agenda, to discuss the sale of defence equipment to Pakistan.

Pakistan’s request for MI-35 helicopters has been on the table since 2009, but Russia had kept the issue pending because of the Indian factor.

India had long been Russia’s ‘exclusive military technical cooperation partner’. However, Moscow has reportedly downgraded that status to ‘preferred partner’ after India diversified its defence procurements and increasingly began relying on Western sources for meeting its hardware requirements. Russia has, meanwhile, reviewed its policy of selling military equipment to Pakistan.

Ambassador Dedov, however, had earlier maintained that there was no ban on selling defence equipment to Pakistan.

MI-35s are multi-purpose military transport helicopters which can be used for combat missions.

The Pakistan government has been saying that it genuinely needed these helicopters for counter-terrorism operations.

member_23370 · Post by **member_23370** » 12 Nov 2014 19:58

Mi-35 is obsolete. What Indian factor? Once IA gets the AH-64D's even the old Mi-35's can be sold for scrap. Why the hold up? PAkis have no cash?

shaun · Post by **shaun** » 12 Nov 2014 20:13

just like how Russians sells to middle eastern countries they too will do the same with porkis , the only thing that goes against porkis from directly acquiring high end Russian weapons is terrorism. Anyway chini CX-1 in porki hand will become another head ache for India.

member_28756 · Post by **member_28756** » 12 Nov 2014 20:23

What next for Natasha are they going to sell Mig 35 or Su 35 too ?

.....but I would not be to worried the Porkis are broke.

NRao · Post by **NRao** » 12 Nov 2014 20:36

Political decisions do not need nearly as much funds to back them up. Besides they can barter too.

This should not be taken lightly. However, no need to fear either. All parties are acting the way they should under the circumstances. Good will come out of this at the end.

member_28722 · Post by **member_28722** » 13 Nov 2014 00:42

MANNY K wrote:What next for Natasha are they going to sell Mig 35 or Su 35 too ? .....but I would not be to worried the Porkis are broke.

Russians are shooting themselves in the foot. The Chinese will stop buying from them within next decade and the TSPians can only barter in food or terrorists.
Downgrading the only reliable customer is an ultra-dumb move ...

Viv S · Post by **Viv S** » 13 Nov 2014 13:57

Between the JF-17's RD-93 engine, IL-78 refuelers and Mi-171s routed through China, the Pakistanis have already gotten almost everything they wanted from Russia. Lets not pretend that the Russians were doing some big favour by holding off on the Mi-35 sale.

The Pak defence budget is one-sixth of ours, and almost of their imports will come from China in the days to come. Just the cost overrun in the Gorshkov/Vik program is more than what Russia can expect in orders from Pakistan over the next decade.

The MEA should stop lobbying against the deal. If the Russia wants to export arms to Pakistan, let it export arms. It will barely impact our security. In turn, we ought to give Russian companies a level-playing field in India, and nothing more.

vinod · Post by **vinod** » 13 Nov 2014 17:28

Viv S wrote:Between the JF-17's RD-93 engine, IL-78 refuelers and Mi-171s routed through China, the Pakistanis have already gotten almost everything they wanted from Russia. Lets not pretend that the Russians were doing some big favour by holding off on the Mi-35 sale.

The Pak defence budget is one-sixth of ours, and almost of their imports will come from China in the days to come. Just the cost overrun in the Gorshkov/Vik program is more than what Russia can expect in orders from Pakistan over the next decade.

The MEA should stop lobbying against the deal. If the Russia wants to export arms to Pakistan, let it export arms. It will barely impact our security. In turn, we ought to give Russian companies a level-playing field in India, and nothing more.

I think whatever that can be done to stop weapons into hands of our enemy should be done. Including lobbying! But not at the expense of compromising anything. We state our protest and move ahead. If Russia wants anything from us for not selling to Pakistan, we don't have to agree to that.

kmc_chacko · Post by **kmc_chacko** » 13 Nov 2014 19:29

MANNY K wrote:What next for Natasha are they going to sell Mig 35 or Su 35 too ? .....but I would not be to worried the Porkis are broke.

I will love to see Su-35s in PAF colors. 2-3 sq of Su-35s will destroy entire PAF.

Pakistan which can't even properly maintain its F-16s and replace its outdated fighters with cheaper, duper JF-17. With their present budget allocation I don't think they can maintain more than 6-10 Mig 35s .