This might give us some idea , it looks pretty similar in length .Victor wrote:That 'thing' is almost twice the size of Brahmos. Does it look like it can fit in the belly of a Su-30?
![Image](http://i40.photobucket.com/albums/e222/idrworg/Brahmoscx1_zps1756528d.jpg)
This might give us some idea , it looks pretty similar in length .Victor wrote:That 'thing' is almost twice the size of Brahmos. Does it look like it can fit in the belly of a Su-30?
It looks like they choose YJ-12 over that thing. I wish I could tell you more and not sure about compatibility on the SRBM. I am just concerned the Pakis will get their hands on it and what if Natasha sells other stuff like PAK-FA to the lizard.Jaeger wrote:Manny K I read on some forum that this is the rejected competitor to the YJ-12. Apparently this one lost out because of its terrible CEP. However, it's also compatible with the M-20 SRBM TEL, so its part of the export package. What else can you tell us about this? Thanks.
karan_mc wrote:This might give us some idea , it looks pretty similar in length .Victor wrote:That 'thing' is almost twice the size of Brahmos. Does it look like it can fit in the belly of a Su-30?
MANNY K wrote:
I cant say I am surprised. Natasha and Lizard have been getting closer together ever since the Ukraine crisis look at this new gas deal that will double their previous oil agreement. No wonder Boris or should I say Vladimir can't say no with all that money floating around.chola wrote:
This might give us some idea , it looks pretty similar in length .
It the placement of the fins are exactly the same as Brahmos/Yakhont. I have no doubt that Natasha and Boris have sold to the lizard. To hell with them.
Putin: Russia, China close to reaching 2nd mega gas deal
Published time: November 07, 2014 10:48
http://rt.com/business/203087-putin-china-gas-deal/
Russian President Vladimir Putin (RIA Novosti / Alexey Druzhinin)
Tags
Big deal, China, Gas, Russia and the global economy
Moscow and Beijing have agreed many of the aspects of a second gas pipeline to China, the so-called western route. It’s in additional to the eastern route which has already broken ground after a $400 billion deal was clinched in May.
In May, China and Russia signed a $400 billion deal to construct the Power of Siberia pipeline, which will annually deliver 38 billion cubic meters (bcm) of gas to China. The Power of Siberia, the eastern route, will connect Russia’s Kovykta and Chaynda fields with China, where recoverable resources are estimated at about 3 trillion cubic meters.
The opening of the western route, the Altai, would link Western China and Russia and supply an additional 30 bcm of gas, nearly doubling the gas deal reached in May.
When the Altai route is complete China will become Russia’s biggest gas customer. The ability to supply China with 68 bcm of gas annually surpasses the 40 bcm it supplies Germany each year
China unveils a new anti-drone laser, but it’s the growing Chinese drone fleet that matters
By Ishaan Tharoor November 6 at 12:18 PM
A 2011 picture from a Chinese air show of a model of a Chinese "Pterodactyl" drone. (William Wan/The Washington Post)
A report in China's state media earlier this week revealed that China had successfully tested a new "home-made laser defense system" capable of shooting down drones. Xinhua news agency cited the progress made by one of the country's leading scientific academies:
The machine is able to shoot down various small aircraft within a two-kilometer radius and can do so in five seconds after locating its target, said a statement released Sunday by the China Academy of Engineering Physics, one of the system's co-developers.
Characterized by its speed, precision and low noise, the system is designed to destroy unmanned, small-scale drones flying within an altitude of 500-m and at a speed below 50m/s, it said.
The system will be probably transported or deployed on vehicles, an ideal scenario for policing the skies above cities and sensitive government or military installations. According to Xinhua, it had a 100 percent success rate in its trials, targeting and bringing down more than 30 test drones.
The increasing proliferation of various sorts of unmanned aerial vehicles means governments around the world are getting more and more worried about their use for purposes of espionage and covert surveillance. The U.S., with the aid of Boeing, is also testing a laser cannon that can "blast drones out of the sky."
The development of this technology comes amid growing attention on the scale and capabilities of China's drone program. There's not much clear data about the size of the Chinese drone fleet, but most analysts believe that Beijing's military boasts the largest number of unmanned aerial vehicles behind that of the United States.
In 2011, around the time most observers switched on to China's developing drone industry, my colleague William Wan attended a high-profile aviation show where a number of Chinese-made drones were on display, including models of the "Wing-Loong," believed to an adaptation of the American Reaper drone, and "Pterodactyl," an equivalent to the American Predator drone.
"The Chinese are catching up quickly. This is something we know for sure,” an American defense analyst told The Washington Post at the time, referring to modest statements made by Chinese officials about the weakness of their domestic drone programs. “We should not take comfort in some perceived lags in sensors or satellites capabilities. Those are just a matter of time.”
In the intervening years, China's drone investments have deepened and its ambitions have widened in scope. A 96-page Pentagon report published earlier this year, claimed China's military spending in 2013 far exceeded Beijing's reported figure. It also voiced concerns about Beijing's push into drone development. Chinese efforts on this front, the report indicated, "combines unlimited resources with technological awareness that might allow China to match or even outpace U.S. spending on unmanned systems in the future."
Of greatest concern is China's ability to vie with the U.S. and its East Asian allies, where maritime disputes over islands in the South China Sea and the East China Sea are a seemingly permanent source of tension and provocation in the region. China's new capabilities present new challenges to the U.S. Navy, long the guarantor of stability in the Pacific.
Beyond questions of geopolitics, China's advances in drone technologies also mean the chances of dozens of other countries building up their own fleets is more likely, given the relative cheapness of Chinese drone technology compared to the costs of American drones. Governments like Pakistan, for example, are keen to acquire Chinese drones, while other nervous Asian powers like Japan and India also seek to boost their arsenals.
As drone technology proliferates, seemingly unchecked, those anti-drone lasers may become quite useful, after all
The image below shows that the technique used by the Chinese missile to tilt from vertical to horizontal is not the same as in Brahmos. I have always been totally fascinated by Brahmos launches. Bang! The missile launches and then whump! a rocket charge tilts the missile by 90deg to horizontal - and just when it should be going out of control whump! one more rocket motor exactly arrests the tilt with the missile horizontal. Then bang! the cap on the intake is blown off and the ramjet kicks in.
its concept is completely different from btahmos......it seems to be a inferior export version of YJ12.shiv wrote:The image below shows that the technique used by the Chinese missile to tilt from vertical to horizontal is not the same as in Brahmos. I have always been totally fascinated by Brahmos launches. Bang! The missile launches and then whump! a rocket charge tilts the missile by 90deg to horizontal - and just when it should be going out of control whump! one more rocket motor exactly arrests the tilt with the missile horizontal. Then bang! the cap on the intake is blown off and the ramjet kicks in.
In the image below the Chinese missile is making a curved climb from vertical to horizontal. And no intake cap at launch as far as I can see
Below is a classic Brahmos launch image with its characteristic abrupt 90 deg turn
Are you implying that the real Chinese version (YJ-12) would make make the 90 degree move?.it seems to be a inferior export version of YJ12.
well, YJ12 is reported to have a range of 480KM or more ,and can be carried by JH7...its trajectory is almost as same as CX1......NRao wrote:Are you implying that the real Chinese version (YJ-12) would make make the 90 degree move?.it seems to be a inferior export version of YJ12.
BTW, at this point in time pretty much everything - from what I can see - is of the exportable variety.
Wiki quotes JH 7 as capable of carrying 9 tons of armament. That would make each of those missiles 2250 kg. That is 2/3 the weight of Brahmos but 160% more range.Liu wrote: one JH7 can carry 4 such missles when attacking surface fleets.
a squardon of JH7( 24 JH7) lanuch one Saturation attack on AC group with YJ12, when the squardon is still almost 500KM away from the AC.
that would be a deadly threaten to any AC group....
well, I checked some resource , it says that JH7 can only carry 2 YJ12 ,and H6 can carry 4 onesshiv wrote:Wiki quotes JH 7 as capable of carrying 9 tons of armament. That would make each of those missiles 2250 kg. That is 2/3 the weight of Brahmos but 160% more range.Liu wrote: one JH7 can carry 4 such missles when attacking surface fleets.
a squardon of JH7( 24 JH7) lanuch one Saturation attack on AC group with YJ12, when the squardon is still almost 500KM away from the AC.
that would be a deadly threaten to any AC group....
Something does not gel here.
well, I checked some resource , it says that JH7 can only carry 2 YJ12 ,and H6 can carry 4 onesshiv wrote:Wiki quotes JH 7 as capable of carrying 9 tons of armament. That would make each of those missiles 2250 kg. That is 2/3 the weight of Brahmos but 160% more range.Liu wrote: one JH7 can carry 4 such missles when attacking surface fleets.
a squardon of JH7( 24 JH7) lanuch one Saturation attack on AC group with YJ12, when the squardon is still almost 500KM away from the AC.
that would be a deadly threaten to any AC group....
Something does not gel here.
And the CBG would respond by developing a capability to:shiv wrote:Wiki quotes JH 7 as capable of carrying 9 tons of armament. That would make each of those missiles 2250 kg. That is 2/3 the weight of Brahmos but 160% more range.Liu wrote: one JH7 can carry 4 such missles when attacking surface fleets.
a squardon of JH7( 24 JH7) lanuch one Saturation attack on AC group with YJ12, when the squardon is still almost 500KM away from the AC.
that would be a deadly threaten to any AC group....
Something does not gel here.
well, in real war between CHina and USA, both sides can have lots of weapons and ammunition to destroy targets ,however far away the target is ....so range is never the problem to either USA or CHina...brar_w wrote:And the CBG would respond by developing a capability to:shiv wrote: Wiki quotes JH 7 as capable of carrying 9 tons of armament. That would make each of those missiles 2250 kg. That is 2/3 the weight of Brahmos but 160% more range.
Something does not gel here.
A) Develop a comprehensive ISR and integrated networks to spot these threats much earlier and kill them using all CBG and non CBG resources
B ) Take down launch aircrafts from 300-500 km's away
C) Develop a comprehensive Electronic warfare, spoofing etc net so as to force the launch aircraft to get closer for a kill..
D) Have the capability to take down incoming missiles both @ altitude in cruise profile and in the terminal profile
E) Develop and field Kill options that have near unlimited supply ( *EMRG* *DEW*)
http://www.janes.com/article/40550/us-n ... pts-at-sea
http://defensetech.org/2013/01/18/navy- ... e-defense/
I don't think either side is seeing this through the lens of "what happens during war" but more from, " How can either sides influence in the pacific be altered". For China, its how to be disruptive by pushing the CBG further back, for the USN and particularly the pentagon through the ASBC is how to leverage advances to retain that advantage and build upon it.well, in real war between CHina and USA, both sides can have lots of weapons and ammunition to destroy targets ,however far away the target is ....so range is never the problem to either USA or CHina...
And investments to that end have reflected this as well (hence this is NO. 1 of my list in the previous post). Just look at the sheer amount of money being spent on ISR, and other information systems. P-8, Triton, UCLASS to name a few programs that would directly contribute. At the back end its NIFC_CA that has information at its core. This is before one gets into the Space and cyber integration. On the other hand, China is fast developing its ISR capabilities and preparing to deny an integrated ISR network on the other side. Where other adversaries see this as a worrisome sign (those like India, japan, South Korea, Vietnam etc) is that the Chinese are investing to neutralize the USN and combined USA/USN/USMC/USA presence in the pacific, and that would obviously directly impact the ability of the Chinese to neutralize the navies and joint forces of these nations as well.the key is how to "detect" the target....
Much of those activities would be happening outside of the "white budget" anyhow. Its at what 60-70 Billion now per annum in the black iirc.but USA's budget on space projects and defence project is being cut down.
What band does it operate on ?Liu wrote:china shows a new tpye of anti-stealth rador,which sucessfully detected F22 over S.Korea. http://mil.sina.cn/?sa=t134d442278v76&a ... towap&vt=4
Already, scores of images of its full-size display mock-up show an uncanny resemblance to another famous supersonic ASCM, the Mach 2.8-3.0 speed Russian-Indian BrahMos. Both share the distinctive cone-inlet air intake, a two-stage structure and similar dimensions.
..
While there is no confirmation that Russia’s NPO Mashinostroyenia sold CALT the technology from its Yakhont supersonic ASCM as it did to India to provide the basis for BrahMos, this should not be surprising. India and Russia have Russian-made NPO Mashinostroyenia 3M-54 Club supersonic terminal-stage ASCMs and Zvezda Kh-31 supersonic anti-radar/ship missiles. But China has also purchased or otherwise acquired the technology to produce its own versions, the larger and longer-range YJ-12, now in Chinese service, is based on Zvezda technology and the YJ-18 is believed to be a shorter range version of the 3M-54. So CALT’s CX-1 is likely China’s third “Russian” supersonic ASCM.
I suspect its L band or UHFnik wrote:VHF (mentions UHF as well) - google translate the link
Yeah pic posted, see top of the page.Kartik wrote:looks like the Russkies have sold Yakhont technology to the Chinese, which now has unveiled a Brahmos like ASCM, the CX-1..
No need for any espionage really.or else the Chinese have managed to obtain detailed designs of the Yakhont or Brahmos through industrial espionage activities..either way those bloody SOBs will eventuall sell a Brahmos copy/analogue to the Pakis.
To the best of my knowledge the F-22 does not operate outside of US territory without a Luneburg lens. UHF/VHF radar results can be easily calculated based on radars and ranges as it appears that the F-117 has been busy running against radar test sites at groom lake just recently, most likely to test out some materials and coatings for the LRS-B. We also have to remember that the USAF has a pretty high tech airborne UHF radar to sim against outside of its "black" radar sitesLiu wrote:china shows a new tpye of anti-stealth rador,which sucessfully detected F22 over S.Korea. http://mil.sina.cn/?sa=t134d442278v76&a ... towap&vt=4
Who is not?The Chinese are talented people when it comes to copy cat
And this....Viv S wrote:Yeah pic posted, see top of the page.Kartik wrote:looks like the Russkies have sold Yakhont technology to the Chinese, which now has unveiled a Brahmos like ASCM, the CX-1..
No need for any espionage really.or else the Chinese have managed to obtain detailed designs of the Yakhont or Brahmos through industrial espionage activities..either way those bloody SOBs will eventuall sell a Brahmos copy/analogue to the Pakis.
Asia for the Asians - Why Chinese-Russian Friendship Is Here To Stay
http://rt.com/business/203679-china-russia-gas-deal/
Putin, Xi Jinping sign mega gas deal on second gas supply route
President Vladimir Putin and Chinese leader Xi Jinping have signed a memorandum of understanding on the so-called “western” gas supplies route to China. The agreement paves the way for a contract that would make China the biggest consumer of Russian gas.
Russia’s so-called “western” or "Altay" route would supply 30 billion cubic meters (bcm) of gas a year to China.
The new supply line comes in addition to the “eastern” route, through the “Power of Siberia” pipeline, which will annually deliver 38 bcm of gas to China. Work on that pipeline route has already begun after a $400 billion deal was clinched in May.
i don't know much about RADOR,but F22 flys over S.Korea from time to time,to warn N.koreabrar_w wrote:To the best of my knowledge the F-22 does not operate outside of US territory without a Luneburg lens. UHF/VHF radar results can be easily calculated based on radars and ranges as it appears that the F-117 has been busy running against radar test sites at groom lake just recently, most likely to test out some materials and coatings for the LRS-B. We also have to remember that the USAF has a pretty high tech airborne UHF radar to sim against outside of its "black" radar sitesLiu wrote:china shows a new tpye of anti-stealth rador,which sucessfully detected F22 over S.Korea. http://mil.sina.cn/?sa=t134d442278v76&a ... towap&vt=4..Those days of "stealth" being an unknown commodity are long gone. The USAF, the RuAF and I suspect the Chinese know fairly well what the limitations of their stealth jets are to the threats that the other side fields, and they would simply have to develop work arounds for that. Even if you do not have the codes and exact frequencies, you can add a lot of UHF, VHF, X band, S Band radars to your radar sites and see which design starts becoming vulnerable in what scenarios (coatings, range, emission etc)..and develop your strategy accordingly. Of course, some designs would be more flexible then others hence we saw an early retirement of the F-117, while the B-2 would last for decades still and the F-22 and F-35 are going to last a long long time.
JH-7 probably only 2, missiles looks heavy.shiv wrote:Wiki quotes JH 7 as capable of carrying 9 tons of armament. That would make each of those missiles 2250 kg. That is 2/3 the weight of Brahmos but 160% more range.Liu wrote: one JH7 can carry 4 such missles when attacking surface fleets.
a squardon of JH7( 24 JH7) lanuch one Saturation attack on AC group with YJ12, when the squardon is still almost 500KM away from the AC.
that would be a deadly threaten to any AC group....
Something does not gel here.
Copying Software is not the same as copying Aircraft or Engine .. you need advancement in material , aerodynamics ,control laws to name a few else we would have seen clones of advanced equipment in Pakistan.....Most importantly you need industry to back it up without which Stealing or Copying wont be possible.NRao wrote:Who is not?The Chinese are talented people when it comes to copy cat
India had her own USA for decades. Pretty much anything written in java can be copied or the key mechanism (needed to activate the application) can be rather easily circumvented. It is economics that drives copying and anyone who wants to come ahead can copy.
The issue in copying is ethics.
I know.Copying Software is not the same as copying Aircraft or Engine .. you need advancement in material , aerodynamics ,control laws to name a few else we would have seen clones of advanced equipment in Pakistan.....Most importantly you need industry to back it up without which Stealing or Copying wont be possible.NRao wrote: Who is not?
India had her own USA for decades. Pretty much anything written in java can be copied or the key mechanism (needed to activate the application) can be rather easily circumvented. It is economics that drives copying and anyone who wants to come ahead can copy.
The issue in copying is ethics.
Which is the ethics and economics component I posted about.Its just that stealing or copying will limit the chinese to the pros and cons of those design and limiting their development of their own design but the chinese dont really care much for originality as long as it works for them