China Military Watch - August 9, 2014

[Austin]

China's Emergency Sat Launch Vehicle Raises Eyebrows

The China Aerospace Science and Industry Corp. (CASIC) displayed a model of its FT-1 solid launch vehicle for emergency satellite launches at the Airshow China here near Hong Kong.

A road-mobile trailer truck would transport the 20-meter-long rocket to its launch location where it would be erected into a vertical position.

The unanswered question by CASIC representatives is why anybody would need to make an emergency launch of a small satellite using a road-mobile trailer truck.

The placard on the exhibit states: “It mainly offers launch service for domestic and international small satellites with a 300 kg level or below. It has the characteristics of high orbital injection precision, low cost, easy structure, high mobility, rapid launch, high reliability, and short production cycle.”

Airshow China, known officially as the 10th China International Aviation and Aerospace Exhibition, is being held from Nov. 11-16.

[member_28756]

China's Emergency Sat Launch Vehicle Raises Eyebrows

The China Aerospace Science and Industry Corp. (CASIC) displayed a model of its FT-1 solid launch vehicle for emergency satellite launches at the Airshow China here near Hong Kong.

A road-mobile trailer truck would transport the 20-meter-long rocket to its launch location where it would be erected into a vertical position.

The unanswered question by CASIC representatives is why anybody would need to make an emergency launch of a small satellite using a road-mobile trailer truck.

The placard on the exhibit states: “It mainly offers launch service for domestic and international small satellites with a 300 kg level or below. It has the characteristics of high orbital injection precision, low cost, easy structure, high mobility, rapid launch, high reliability, and short production cycle.”

Airshow China, known officially as the 10th China International Aviation and Aerospace Exhibition, is being held from Nov. 11-16.

I think it can be used as an anti satellite system to destroy enemies targets in space or putting up new replacements for satellites lost during conflict.

[Picklu]

I don't care much about the missile or launch vehicle.

It is the launcher/carrier that is of major interest to me. Wish we have mastered the indigenous production of the engine, tranny and so on.

[Liu]

chinese engineer relative to WS10 confirms that the problem of ws10 has been fixed and its durablity span is 1500 hours. J10b,J11b and Y20 have use ws10. the thrust of New modified ws10 is almost equal to that of su35. however, its reliability and durabloty span i s still lag behind russian ones http://lt.cjdby.net/forum.php?mod=viewt ... 1&mobile=1

[brar_w]

i don't know much about RADOR,but F22 flys over S.Korea from time to time,to warn N.korea

Of course, and they also visit Europe and the ME from time to time (even being based a few minutes flight time from Iran). The point was that the US aircraft during peacetime usually wear a radar reflector and degrade the RCS when traveling abroad. What I also said was that VHF, and UHF radars have flooded US stealth radar test ranges for years if not decades. SOC has meticulously kept up with some of them but if you neglect those radars at the ranges, you just have to look at the E-2D and its Lockheed designed radar which is a state of the art UHF radar on a flying aircraft...Plenty of testing opportunities exist and have existed against all sorts of bandwidth. The problem is that a lot of folks in the media don't get the fact that stealth designs have now accounted for these "peaks" that their designs will likely generate in certain frequencies..As long as you cover your collective A$$ over the most widely used, and the best Targeting-freindly freqs you can develop workarounds for the others...No F-22 , F-35, B-2 or LRS-B is going to go and fight its battle as a modular system in a bubble..they fight together with the other resources that have been built up to support them..The threat to Stealth aint the UHF or VHF radars that have existed in the past and will proliferate in the future, but A2AD buildups, that is things like the DF21 that go after the launch platforms, be it ships, carriers, or air bases..Hence you'll see stealth very heavily factored into the design of the LRS-B, but it will have the sort of range that can bypass a lot of the A2AD capability outside of the "B" word.

Just to add to that since the new phased array UHF radar was turned on and tracking (apparently) F-22's and other US and ROKAF fighters, that would have been quite a thorough debrief and data download from the AN/ALR-94 I think the Nanjing Research Institute marketing this radar may have shot itself in the foot with this one. There is no good reason for the USAF to all of a sudden change its policy on stealth aircrafts, and begin to operate within "radar range" of hostile threats without the LL (when they are extra careful to strap on the LL at foreign visits), while it makes perfect sense for them to operate within these radar ranges with the 94 which is a totally passive system designed to pick up radars operating in these frequencies.....






http://www.asian-defence.net/2014/11/jy ... -2014.html

[NRao]

A stealth fighter .............



............... with smoke trailing it ........................

[member_22539]

^Apparently the afterburner is almost always on, or it falls out of the sky. Talk about a flying brick.

[jamwal]

All you need for an emergemcy satellite launch vehicle like this one is to repaint an existing IRBM or ICBM.

[kit]

China's Emergency Sat Launch Vehicle Raises Eyebrows

The China Aerospace Science and Industry Corp. (CASIC) displayed a model of its FT-1 solid launch vehicle for emergency satellite launches at the Airshow China here near Hong Kong.

A road-mobile trailer truck would transport the 20-meter-long rocket to its launch location where it would be erected into a vertical position.

The unanswered question by CASIC representatives is why anybody would need to make an emergency launch of a small satellite using a road-mobile trailer truck.

The placard on the exhibit states: “It mainly offers launch service for domestic and international small satellites with a 300 kg level or below. It has the characteristics of high orbital injection precision, low cost, easy structure, high mobility, rapid launch, high reliability, and short production cycle.”

Airshow China, known officially as the 10th China International Aviation and Aerospace Exhibition, is being held from Nov. 11-16.

I think it can be used as an anti satellite system to destroy enemies targets in space or putting up new replacements for satellites lost during conflict.[/quote]

Its quite logical.A major war with the US or India will lead to loss/destruction of major space ports and heavy launch vehicles, apart from loss of some number of orbital satellites.A capability like this would let them deploy mini/micro communication/elint satellites whenever needed .India too needs such a capability and the earlier Agni 1 missiles would/could be used in such a scenario.

[Lisa]

All you need for an emergemcy satellite launch vehicle like this one is to repaint an existing IRBM or ICBM.

50 years ago,

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/AN/DRC-8_E ... ons_System

but new idea in China!

[NRao]

All you need for an emergemcy satellite launch vehicle like this one is to repaint an existing IRBM or ICBM.

50 years ago,

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/AN/DRC-8_E ... ons_System

but new idea in China!

Decades of R&D.

And, billions of dollars in spending on R&D.

[ashi]

US deal in Zhuhai Airshow puts China planes on world map

Orders for more than 100 Avic planes and helicopters at the Zhuhai Airshow, including a breakthrough deal in the United States, have boosted China's ambitions to move into advanced aviation markets overseas.

Aviation Industry Corp of China's general aviation subsidiary Avicopter said yesterday it was looking to tap the US express delivery market with its Y-12 family of utility planes, which will be sold to the US for the first time in a deal with a Californian-based company that was among a raft of contracts involving 111 aircraft it has bagged at this week's airshow.

The South China Morning Post reported on Monday that the model to be exported to the US for the first time was Y-12F, a 19-seat turboprop transport aircraft that is the latest version of a plane made by Avic since the 1980s.

[Liu]

US deal in Zhuhai Airshow puts China planes on world map

Orders for more than 100 Avic planes and helicopters at the Zhuhai Airshow, including a breakthrough deal in the United States, have boosted China's ambitions to move into advanced aviation markets overseas.

Aviation Industry Corp of China's general aviation subsidiary Avicopter said yesterday it was looking to tap the US express delivery market with its Y-12 family of utility planes, which will be sold to the US for the first time in a deal with a Californian-based company that was among a raft of contracts involving 111 aircraft it has bagged at this week's airshow.

The South China Morning Post reported on Monday that the model to be exported to the US for the first time was Y-12F, a 19-seat turboprop transport aircraft that is the latest version of a plane made by Avic since the 1980s.

y12 is a type of mature civilian small acraft. even moderate industrilazed countries like poland can work it out........of course, china is good at work it out at lowest price,just as china does with tv set and AC.

[NRao]

US deal in Zhuhai Airshow puts China planes on world map

Orders for more than 100 Avic planes and helicopters at the Zhuhai Airshow, including a breakthrough deal in the United States, have boosted China's ambitions to move into advanced aviation markets overseas.

Aviation Industry Corp of China's general aviation subsidiary Avicopter said yesterday it was looking to tap the US express delivery market with its Y-12 family of utility planes, which will be sold to the US for the first time in a deal with a Californian-based company that was among a raft of contracts involving 111 aircraft it has bagged at this week's airshow.

The South China Morning Post reported on Monday that the model to be exported to the US for the first time was Y-12F, a 19-seat turboprop transport aircraft that is the latest version of a plane made by Avic since the 1980s.

That is the PR portion.

The reality follows:

Gaultier Letourneau-Ross, a consultant with Avia-Tek, said the US deal was "a good step in the intended direction for China but it is not a huge step in the grand scheme of things".

"China has greater ambitions than the Y12F, which operates in a relatively small market segment - utility planes," he said. "The ultimate goal is to one day enter the commercial airliner market with bigger planes. That would lead Comac, the Chinese national aircraft maker, to compete with the likes of Embraer, Bombardier, Airbus and Boeing."

Some time to go.

[brar_w]

A stealth fighter .............



............... with smoke trailing it ........................

[member_28722]

Sloppy journalism they showed a Sukhoi and called it a J31 Chinese stealth fighter. LOL this journalis does not know what he is talking about...

Did you stop watching after the first few seconds?

[DavidD]

Oh no. One more can of worms to talk about.

Just how good is China's new 'stealth' fighter?

Sloppy journalism they showed a Sukhoi and called it a J31 Chinese stealth fighter. LOL this journalis does not know what he is talking about...

Ya, seriously, the Chinese suck so much at designing planes that the J-31 needs to use afterburners just to stay in the air? I mean, come on!

[Cain Marko]

Some report suggested that the J31 almost did a vertical take off; is that true? Anyone has bhideo phootage?

[brar_w]

This is a vertical takeoff

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zW28Mb1YvwY

This is the J-31 demo from Zhuhai.

[Cain Marko]

Oh well, I was expecting to see something on the lines of this

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FuD8KXPD3HI


It is a stealth fighter afteral

[Austin]

J-31 sedated performance at the airshow would more likely related to its flight test program continuing and its envelop has not been fully explored...its certainly a beautiful looking medium fighter they probably need to optimise the engine for low smoke , as far as avionic/sensors goes the jury is still out.

[member_28756]

Double post

[member_28756]

US deal in Zhuhai Airshow puts China planes on world map

Orders for more than 100 Avic planes and helicopters at the Zhuhai Airshow, including a breakthrough deal in the United States, have boosted China's ambitions to move into advanced aviation markets overseas.

Aviation Industry Corp of China's general aviation subsidiary Avicopter said yesterday it was looking to tap the US express delivery market with its Y-12 family of utility planes, which will be sold to the US for the first time in a deal with a Californian-based company that was among a raft of contracts involving 111 aircraft it has bagged at this week's airshow.

The South China Morning Post reported on Monday that the model to be exported to the US for the first time was Y-12F, a 19-seat turboprop transport aircraft that is the latest version of a plane made by Avic since the 1980s.

Looks like their first civilian jet ARJ-21 is about to enter service.

[member_28756]

J-31 sedated performance at the airshow would more likely related to its flight test program continuing and its envelop has not been fully explored...its certainly a beautiful looking medium fighter they probably need to optimise the engine for low smoke , as far as avionic/sensors goes the jury is still out.

Good point that thing does not even have engine they are only using the RD 33 for prototype. The stupid lizard is showing a plane without an engine for export. lol And Only the Pakis will be stupid enough to buy it.

[Liu]

J-31 sedated performance at the airshow would more likely related to its flight test program continuing and its envelop has not been fully explored...its certainly a beautiful looking medium fighter they probably need to optimise the engine for low smoke , as far as avionic/sensors goes the jury is still out.

Good point that thing does not even have engine they are only using the RD 33 for prototype. The stupid lizard is showing a plane without an engine for export. lol And Only the Pakis will be stupid enough to buy it.

engine is the last missing sector of chinese defense industry. but the so many j10 and j11 now use ws10,which proves chinese is advancing ,as for fixing the last missing sector.........so ,let's wait and see how on earth j31 will perform.

[Austin]

engine is the last missing sector of chinese defense industry. but the so many j10 and j11 now use ws10,which proves chinese is advancing ,as for fixing the last missing sector.........so ,let's wait and see how on earth j31 will perform.

I doubt WS10 is produced en-mass to power Chinese fighter , else Chinese wont be importing AL-31 and RD-93 in huge number .....they probably have success in building the WS-10 but its performance parameter , MTBO , Life Cycle wont be at par with RD-93/31 series engine of which it is trying to replace.

Which is not to say thats a bad thing for them coz engine development is a very complex and takes decades to master and you have to begin some where even if its sub par compared to N or N-1 engines around but even the world is not standing still ...so Chinese have to play catchup game

[Liu]

engine is the last missing sector of chinese defense industry. but the so many j10 and j11 now use ws10,which proves chinese is advancing ,as for fixing the last missing sector.........so ,let's wait and see how on earth j31 will perform.

I doubt WS10 is produced en-mass to power Chinese fighter , else Chinese wont be importing AL-31 and RD-93 in huge number .....they probably have success in building the WS-10 but its performance parameter , MTBO , Life Cycle wont be at par with RD-93/31 series engine of which it is trying to replace.
Which is not to say thats a bad thing for them coz engine development is a very complex and takes decades to master and you have to begin some where even if its sub par compared to N or N-1 engines around but even the world is not standing still ...so Chinese have to play catchup game

either china or india has enough talent ,which has been proven by chinese/indian scientists and engineers full of Usa labs/universities for decades. it was/is always the lack of expensive R&D infrastructures that prevents the advance of science&tech in developing countries like china and india. however,case is different on china.....china can afford world most advanced R&D lab for its scientists and engineers.........it is just a matter of time that china harvest fruits of its heavy investment on R&D labs and talent education.

[member_28756]

The French better smarten up they have been overtaken as the fourth largest arm exporter. They have to get the Rafale deal going

http://www.nytimes.com/2014/11/15/busin ... .html?_r=0

China’s Rise as Arms Supplier Is Put on Display

By CHRISTINA LARSONNOV. 14, 2014







ZHUHAI, China — Queen Bee anti-tank rocket system. Halberd supersonic target drone. Sky Dragon 12 surface-to-air missile system.

Those were among the many weapons on display in the past week at Airshow China here in this southern city adjacent to Macau, and exhibitors included an array of new and established manufacturers as China expands its arms industry to bolster its military as well as exports.

China is the world’s fourth-largest exporter of arms, having overtaken France last year, according to data from the Stockholm International Peace Research Institute. Ten large state-owned defense manufacturers dominate the sector, but the government is encouraging smaller, private companies to enter the field.


“The Chinese authorities have been encouraging nonstate firms to take part in the defense business in order to encourage competition and innovation in a policy known as civil-military integration,” said Tai Ming Cheung, director of the Institute on Global Conflict and Cooperation, at the University of California, San Diego.

One of the new entrants is the Xi’an Tianhe Defense Technology Company, founded in 2010. The company focuses on civilian and defense electronics, including continuous-wave radar systems and advanced ocean communication. “Our boss is just a businessman,” as opposed to a former People’s Liberation Army officer, said Guo Yamei, a saleswoman.

Tianhe’s president, He Zenglin, escorted an entourage of Myanmar military officials by the displays of radar systems for regional air defense. “We came here to introduce our company,” Ms. Guo said.

From 2009 to 2013, China’s top arms customers were Pakistan, Bangladesh and Myanmar, according to the institute’s data. In that period, China’s share of the global arms trade jumped to 6 percent from 2 percent, while the total international arms market grew 14 percent. China is a leading supplier of major arms to sub-Saharan Africa, a relatively small but growing market.

Chinese arms makers, whose products are in competition with low-cost Russian equipment in many categories, want to move up the value chain.

In the past, because the Chinese military was unwilling to export advanced technology, Mr. Cheung said, the Chinese arms industry could offer only products with aging designs, which few countries wanted. An improvement in the offerings and a willingness by China to sell up-to-date products like those on display at the air show have led to the increase in arms sales.

Making its debut as an exhibitor at the air show, Armor China displayed a poster of Hu Jintao, who was the country’s president from 2003 to 2013, riding in a black armored vehicle in front of line of saluting soldiers in Tiananmen Square. “Proudly Produced Vehicle Armor for President of China,” it read.

Armor China, reaching beyond its origins as a parts supplier, began selling a microdrone this year that has a range of up to seven miles and can be used for military or police surveillance, as well as for forestry and agriculture. Because the microdrone has civilian uses, the $20,000 price was publicly advertised.

“All the technology is designed in China,” said Charles Cao, managing director of Armor China. “It’s cheaper to manufacturer in China because a lot of the suppliers are here.”

Drones, which combine aerodynamics and remote-sensing technology, are a fairly new product area, and Chinese companies are near the leading technological edge instead of playing catch-up, as they do in other fields of aviation, experts say.

Norinco, the maker of the Queen Bee anti-tank rocket system, is one of China’s leading arms manufacturers. At the air show, a cavernous display hall was taken up almost entirely by the company. Potential customers — from Southeast Asia, sub-Saharan Africa and the Middle East — wearing red V.I.P. lanyards paraded between the displays, accompanied by Norinco translators and sales staff members explaining equipment specifications.

Like other Chinese arms makers, Norinco benefits from economies of scale that allow it to offer competitive export prices.

“By mass-producing for its internal market, the People’s Liberation Army, Norinco is able to sell its wares on the global market by presenting itself as a cost-friendly alternative — basically the Walmart of ground defense systems for purchasers without a lot of expendable funds and uneager to meet all the political conditions required of a Germany, U.S. or United Kingdom,” said Daniel Darling, who analyzes international military markets at Forecast International, an American market research company.

Because China will not restrict its companies from selling to so-called rogue nations, he said, “the entire globe is its market.”

Several deals were announced at the show. The Harbin Aircraft Industry Group, a subsidiary of the Aviation Industry Corporation of China, or AVIC, announced that it had signed a contract to sell 20 of its Y-12 utility aircraft to Coptervision, a Las Vegas-based company that runs tours and transports cargo. AVIC said the Y-12 was the first Chinese-made plane to have Federal Aviation Administration certification and be sold in the United States. People’s Daily, the main newspaper of the Chinese Communist Party, commenting on the deal, published an editorial, “Why ‘Made in China’ Is Able to ‘Fly’ into the U.S.”

The Commercial Aircraft Corporation of China, known as Comac, announced the sale of 30 C919 jetliners to the leasing arm of China Merchants Bank. It also signed a deal to sell three of its ARJ21 regional jets to the Republic of Congo’s Ministry of Transportation, its first sale of the model to Africa. Both Comac planes are still under development.

The top attraction at the show was not for sale, at least not yet. It was the J-31 stealth fighter, which impressed crowds of aviation professionals and amateur fans with aerial maneuvers. He Shiwen, a representative of the jet’s manufacturer, AVIC, said that the airplane’s development was “not finished” and that no sales could be confirmed.

[Austin]

Japans Abe proposes Australia US alliance to take care of China

Abe wants more defense ties with U.S., Australia

[brar_w]

Japans Abe proposes Australia US alliance to take care of China

Abe wants more defense ties with U.S., Australia

Rhetoric trailing actions imho..Japan already has a strong security agreement with the US and has taken measures to increase integration over the last few years. By opening up its policies on defense exports, the Japanese have also effectively opened up the possibility of working with the Aussie Navy on the submarines which is fairly well known. All three are acquiring P-8's and it is quite likely that all 3 will be operating Triton's as well. Japan already operates Aegis FCS and it wouldn't be too radical to expect them to invest in the AMDR for its future AEGIS FCS ships..The overall agreement was extended last year to include 2 AN/TY-2 radars sites in Japan..

[Austin]

Look like US planning to contain China with forward presence and military alliances

[NRao]

Take a hard look at the "pivot" - it removes all doubts.

[NRao]

Rather very late to the game, but here is an awakening.

News of Chinese army training Pakistan 'very serious': Lt. Gen Hoon

I was under the impression that China had sort of leased parts of PoK for 50 years. No?

But the good Lt. Gen has some belated points. Why so late I am not sure. This is what was said years ago.

"If the Chinese are entering the Pakistani side of Kashmir and are constructing roads and infrastructure, then it is a matter of great concern. We need more information before we can pin down as to what is actually happening," he added.

More info in 2014?

Then:

"The Chinese People's Republic Army (PRA) doesn't take orders from the government of that nation. After Prime Minister Modi and President Xi held talks, it took the latter close to five days to pull back the PLA from the Ladakh sector," he said.

LoL.

China and Pakistan have the same model: Armed Services that operate within a nation: A nation within a nation.

Lt. Gen (retd.) should now be (retd.) Lt. Gen (retd.)

[abhik]

Japans Abe proposes Australia US alliance to take care of China

Abe wants more defense ties with U.S., Australia

Rhetoric trailing actions imho..Japan already has a strong security agreement with the US and has taken measures to increase integration over the last few years. By opening up its policies on defense exports, the Japanese have also effectively opened up the possibility of working with the Aussie Navy on the submarines which is fairly well known. All three are acquiring P-8's and it is quite likely that all 3 will be operating Triton's as well. Japan already operates Aegis FCS and it wouldn't be too radical to expect them to invest in the AMDR for its future AEGIS FCS ships..The overall agreement was extended last year to include 2 AN/TY-2 radars sites in Japan..

Nitpic, the Japanese aren't acquiring the P8.

[brar_w]

Nitpic, the Japanese aren't acquiring the P8.

I always confuse this for some reason since the US has P-8's in Japan. Stand corrected!

Look like US planning to contain China with forward presence and military alliances

I don't think its as much about containing them. None of what they are doing is containing china, or planned to do so. China will still grow in terms of its naval presence and blue water capability. They will add carrier groups, increase both the quality and quantity of its Navy and perhaps forge forward basing agreements of its own. What the aim is to do is to maintain the status quo for the Pacific fleet and the influence that the US's allies, partners enjoy currently in the region. This is what the Pacific Pivot is aimed at, i.e. secure the interests in the region that is responsible for the overwhelming majority of sea trade that is not only vital to the US economy, but also to the economies of nations like Japan, South Korea, Australia, Singapore etc.
Couple that with nations actually wanting US presence in the region, especially deeper ties with the US Navy. As china flexes it muscles vis-a-vis its disputes with practically every other country in the Pacific, these nations would look for alliances that would be the logical step for them given the imbalance between their capability compared to China's. We have already seen Vietnam getting closer to the US, and nations around the region increasing significantly joint training and exercises over the next decade. What the US Army is proposing in the region at the moment which is most likely aimed at increasing its own PIE in the ASBC is to create its own forward deployed A2AD elements above and beyond what they have (THAAD, AEGIS, PAC etc), this is dangerous in my opinion and a wrong move on their part.

So what you will see in the ASBC in the coming decades is that the USN and USAF will divide up the R&D dollars into their own niche categories..Navy will as usual focus on ships, DDG1000 and designing the DDG51 replacement using DDG1000 as a base, increasing the Virginia class buy from perhaps 2 to 3 per annum, building the ford class, adding range to the Carrier strike assets with the UCLASS and developing a BAMS capability with the UCLASS, P8 and the Triton. USAF will be tasked with the $$ hungry task of developing the B-3, fielding it in numbers to tackle the A2AD threat, and to enable the USN to operate at distances where it can execute its assets. The USAF will most likely also take over the bulk of the funding on next generation fighters even though the USN started working on industry (towards an AOA) this year. I don't expect the FA-X to be anything more then a Super Lightining II just as the Super Hornet was to the Hornet.


[youtube]nLrO1GI8ZIY&list=UUaqnykSWDAZG0HAh7OYxo6A[/youtube]

[disha]

I had called it FatBox earlier. Am I the only one who sees it sluggish - akin to a milk truck?

[brar_w]

I had called it FatBox earlier. Am I the only one who sees it sluggish - akin to a milk truck?

Can't tell based on the video since we know nothing of how advanced its development is, what the ultimate engine would look like, what sort of flight restrictions (if any) were placed etc etc and how the design would evolve over time. From the looks of it, this looks like an X-35/YF22 minus actual prototype engines. Definitely not like the AA1 that many in the western media were claiming it to be with a magical 2017-2020 operational status.

[Indranil]

I don't like the J-20 (though it is more innovative than the J-31). But I like the J-31. From the outside, it looks really clean. Certainly, that's a lot of smoke. I don't remember the new RD-33s smoking that much. There could be problems with the intakes (JF-17 prototypes had this problem). From the inside, I do not know. But neither do the naysayers.

[Liu]

I don't like the J-20 (though it is more innovative than the J-31). But I like the J-31. From the outside, ilooks really clean. Certainly, that's a lot of smoke. I don't remember the new RD-33s smoking that much. There could be problems with the intakes (JF-17 prototypes had this problem). From the inside, I do not know. But neither do the naysayers.

of the bidding to PlA's spearblade,J31 is the loser while J20 is the winner. so, J31 is struggling to attract foreign investment for survival. that is why j31 is eager to show though it is still a prototype.

[Indranil]

I know. But I love the J-31 more