Sunni Terrorist Fragments of Unstable Pakistan - 10 Oct 2014

Prem · Post by **Prem** » 22 Nov 2014 03:52

saravana wrote:Fikar not. Ombaba has reached out to the Lahore Loin
‏@MaryamNSharif
President Obama calls PM Sharif. Took PM NS into confidence on his upcoming visit to India. Expressed desire for stronger, friendlier ties.

Obama Need South Asian Ta,,tte Chuck Cool-lies to carry his 2 pieces of luggage by 2 She-reefs?

Roperia · Post by **Roperia** » 22 Nov 2014 06:14

saravana wrote:Fikar not. Ombaba has reached out to the Lahore Loin
‏@MaryamNSharif
President Obama calls PM Sharif. Took PM NS into confidence on his upcoming visit to India. Expressed desire for stronger, friendlier ties.

Taking somebody into confidence means "Tell someone one’s secrets" according to Oxford dictionary. It's not like they were taken into confidence while deliberation were ongoing.

By the same standards, he also took Zardari into confidence AFTER his commandos raided Abbotabad.

Obama is literally trolling Pakistan at this point.

It's just to reduce the heartburn of Bakis.

Nandu · Post by **Nandu** » 22 Nov 2014 06:20

From teetar
@d_jaishankar
The Obama-Sharif phone conversation.

U.S. version: http://wh.gov/iCXhf
Pakistani version: http://goo.gl/hHUoxy

Amber G. · Post by **Amber G.** » 22 Nov 2014 07:09

^^^Thanks for posting.

(BTW ..."WASHINGTON: Hours after the White House publicly confirmed that President Obama will be the chief guest at India's Republic Day, the US president phoned Pakistan's Prime Minister Nawaz Sharif to tell him that Washington values its ties with Islamabad....

UlanBatori · Post by **UlanBatori** » 22 Nov 2014 07:21

The President also assured the Prime Minister that he would undertake a visit to Pakistan at an early date, as soon as the situation normalizes in the ~~country~~terrorist slum.

When pigs fly, no doubt.

A_Gupta · Post by **A_Gupta** » 22 Nov 2014 07:25

Shades of Sholay.

Dunya reports (November 8, 2014) a prisoner in Multan jail climbed a 200-foot high water tank and threatened to jump down if he weren’t allowed to meet his lover. She was called from the women’s jail. He asked why she did not love him any longer, and tried to hang himself with a rope, but the guards saved him. - See more at: http://www.thefridaytimes.com/tft/nugge ... SuIk6.dpuf

Prem · Post by **Prem** » 22 Nov 2014 07:37

UlanBatori wrote:
The President also assured the Prime Minister that he would undertake a visit to Pakistan at an early date, as soon as the situation normalizes in the ~~country~~terrorist slum. When pigs fly, no doubt.

Normal .. when Birds start flying on both wings in the Shitadel of Deen.

shiv · Post by **shiv** » 22 Nov 2014 07:42

Jhujar wrote:the Shitadel of Deen.

+72

That is a new one and deserves to be preserved for poste(iori)ty!

arun · Post by **arun** » 22 Nov 2014 08:47

Pakistani and German financed Track II soiree in New Delhi sees the Islamic Republic of Pakistan agreeing to India having a “future presence in Afghanistan if New Delhi mends its fences with Islamabad, former foreign minister Khurshid Mahmud Kasuri said here on Friday”.

Who the f(uk is the Islamic Republic of Pakistan to grant permission or not grant permission to India to have a presence in Afghanistan?

Pakistan ready to welcome India in Afghanistan: Kasuri

NEW DELHI: Pakistan sees no problems with India’s future presence in Afghanistan if New Delhi mends its fences with Islamabad, former foreign minister Khurshid Mahmud Kasuri said here on Friday.

“I am saying as much in my forthcoming book,” Mr Kasuri told Dawn.

“If there is a paradigm shift in India-Pakistan relations, and we become normal friendly neighbours, I foresee no difficulty for us to accept India having as much access to Afghanistan as it wants.”

Mr Kasuri was speaking after a two-day Track II meeting of India-Pakistan delegations he headed with India’s Mani Shankar Aiyar.

Pakistan’s Regional Peace Institute and Hanns Seidel Foundation sponsored the meeting, the first round of which was held earlier in Islamabad. .........................

Dawn

Indian Members of this track 2 soiree were Mani Shankar Aiyar, Salman Khurshid, Ambassador N.N. Jha, Dilip Padgaonkar, Sunil Kant Munjal, Sandeep Dikshit, Pran Neville, Sudheendra Kulkarni, Ashok Malik, Verghese George, Suhasini Haider, Dr. Ajay Darshan Bahera, Shikhar Singh, Seema Mustafa, Teesta Setalwad, Prof. Hilal Ahmed, Kaveri Bamzai, Dr. Nishi Taneja, Karuna Nundy, Dr. Charu Gupta, Romi Khosla, Anjali Chandel, Ravi Vig, Vidya Shankar Aiyar and Bhuvanaya Vijay.

Where does a think tank from the Islamic Republic of Pakistan such as the Regional Peace Institute (along with Germany’s Hanns Seidel Foundation) come up with the money to fund such a soiree?

Declaration of the Track II soiree is available at the below weblink:

DECLARATION - India-Pakistan Dialogue New Delhi 21.11.2014

member_22733 · Post by **member_22733** » 22 Nov 2014 09:49

I have always wondered, what goes on in such "meetings". They are all on one side onleee, Bakis are there for Taqiya, RNI ch()()ths are there for being usefool idiots.

I scratch my head, what is there to discuss? What would be going on behind those four-walls of incest.

partha · Post by **partha** » 22 Nov 2014 09:56

Is it too much to expect a RAA agent in the Indian track 2 team?

A_Gupta · Post by **A_Gupta** » 22 Nov 2014 10:35

^^^ Isn't it obvious? Both sides commiserate each other on India being in the grip of Hindu fundamentalists, and how we could have all been one big happy country if only Hindus realized how secular Jinnah was. Both sides commiserate each other on Pakistan being the world's biggest victim of terror. And so on. If RAA agents are there and are normal people, they give themselves away by their nausea and vomiting.

A_Gupta · Post by **A_Gupta** » 22 Nov 2014 10:48

Wow, an article on a Pakistani problem with no mention of India or South Asia as far as I can tell.
http://www.thefridaytimes.com/tft/the-problem-of-slums/
"Haroon Janjua reports on the living conditions of Pakistan’s poorest"

Rahul M · Post by **Rahul M** » 22 Nov 2014 12:41

JE Menon · Post by **JE Menon** » 22 Nov 2014 13:11

Obama: no lube
Nawaz: for good sharif or bad sharif?

Pratyush · Post by **Pratyush** » 22 Nov 2014 13:21

Obama:- Is there a difference between the good and the bad.

JE Menon · Post by **JE Menon** » 22 Nov 2014 13:25

Nawaz: yes, the circle of their friends

Pratyush · Post by **Pratyush** » 22 Nov 2014 14:17

Obama:- Hmmm....... Interesting point. I'll go after the one, with no power and all the responsibility. As I can't be seen going soft on terror.

rajpa · Post by **rajpa** » 22 Nov 2014 14:47

Regarding Badmash saying that he will meet Kashmiri separatists, we can follow the Ghani example.

For any bilateral discussion, send the minister of agriculture or whoever on a frequent basis to TSP, who will insist on meeting with the COAS of TSP first.

Pratyush · Post by **Pratyush** » 22 Nov 2014 15:04

rajpa wrote:Regarding Badmash saying that he will meet Kashmiri separatists, we can follow the Ghani example.

For any bilateral discussion, send the minister of agriculture or whoever on a frequent basis to TSP, who will insist on meeting with the COAS of TSP first.

No need to do that. Just don't speak to badmash. Let him have the satisfaction of preserving his H&D. He will have nothing, in the end.

g.sarkar · Post by **g.sarkar** » 22 Nov 2014 16:56

Bad dins are here:
http://www.livemint.com/Politics/jSf7zU ... ridor.html
China commits $45.6 billion for Pakistan corridor The deal further cements their ties at a time when Pakistan is nervous about waning US support
The Chinese government and banks will finance Chinese companies to build $45.6 billion worth of energy and infrastructure projects in Pakistan over next six years, according to new details of the deal seen by Reuters on Friday. The Chinese companies will be able to operate the projects as profit-making entities, according to the deal signed by Prime Minister Nawaz Sharif during a visit to China earlier this month. At the time, officials provided few details of the projects or the financing for the deal, dubbed the China-Pak Economic Corridor (CPEC). The deal further cements ties between Pakistan and China at a time when Pakistan is nervous about waning US support as troops pull out of Afghanistan.....
Gautam

rajpa · Post by **rajpa** » 22 Nov 2014 17:36

Pratyush wrote:
rajpa wrote:Regarding Badmash saying that he will meet Kashmiri separatists, we can follow the Ghani example.

For any bilateral discussion, send the minister of agriculture or whoever on a frequent basis to TSP, who will insist on meeting with the COAS of TSP first.
No need to do that. Just don't speak to badmash. Let him have the satisfaction of preserving his H&D. He will have nothing, in the end.

We cant simply stay away from talks. They will start irritating us in the international fora saying India should be open to talks.

We should also impose impossible / extremely irritating conditions of our own.

A good one could be to insist that we will talk only to the TSPA till the 'Kashmir issue' is resolved as the civilian leadership is powerless and we will talk only to the "core leadership" of TSP. That way they cannot say that we are not open to talks and we can also force them to recognize the TSPA as a stakeholder, much as they would like us to recognize K separatists as stakeholders. This should be done in a sophisticated way so that we do appear reasonable.

RajeshA · Post by **RajeshA** » 22 Nov 2014 18:41

rajpa wrote:A good one could be to insist that we will talk only to the TSPA till the 'Kashmir issue' is resolved as the civilian leadership is powerless and we will talk only to the "core leadership" of TSP. That way they cannot say that we are not open to talks and we can also force them to recognize the TSPA as a stakeholder, much as they would like us to recognize K separatists as stakeholders. This should be done in a sophisticated way so that we do appear reasonable.

But why do we need to give any legitimacy to TSPA? Why should we talk to terrorists? They are only for target practice!

Nawaz Sharif is not our opponent. In fact he is a big zero, and we don't need to rub it in that he is a big zero. We just don't have a partner for talks with Pakistan. It's that simple!

RajeshA · Post by **RajeshA** » 22 Nov 2014 18:45

arun wrote:Declaration of the Track II soiree is available at the below weblink:

DECLARATION - India-Pakistan Dialogue New Delhi 21.11.2014

What is this Track II now? Earlier at least these people were close to the Congress leadership! Now they are nothing! So whose track are they running on?

member_22733 · Post by **member_22733** » 22 Nov 2014 18:53

If there is something like "multi-dimensional irrelevance" (BS term borrowed from the BS Gora Index of "Multi-dimensional poverty"), then the jackals and clowns of Track II qualify for it.

1) Dimension 1: They are on the same side, thus there is no point "discussing" anything and meeting has no meaning.
2) Dimension 2: They are not in power, infact they are as far away from power as they ever have been.

My guess. Germany has money to throw around, and someone from Track II figured out an innovative way to use it. Let us all stay in 7 star hotels in Delhi and do chai biskoot everyday and get paid for it by Germany.

Heck, if someone paid me for doing Chai-biskoot I will keep doing that 24/7, why even bother working a real job.

arun · Post by **arun** » 22 Nov 2014 19:16

X Posted from the “Pakistani Role In Global Terrorism” thread.

Our Home Minister, Rajnath Singh, is very explicit and blunt about the role of State Actors of the Islamic Republic of Pakistan in fomenting Mohammadden Terrorism in India.

"Terrorism in India is fully Pakistan sponsored. Pakistan says non state actors are involved. But is ISI non-state actor. ISI is aiding terrorism,"

Regards the so called “trial” in the Islamic Republic of Pakistan of Mohammadden Terrorists involved in the 2008 Mumbai attack, says the Islamic Republic of Pakistan is trying to scuttle the judicial process:

"Pakistan is not helping in the judicial process. In fact it is trying to scuttle it,"

Our Home Minister pointed out that Mohammadden Terrorist Osama Bin Laden could not have lived in the Islamic Republic of Pakistan without support of the Uniformed Jihadi’s of the Military via the notorious Inter-Services Intelligence Directorate the ISID aka ISI:

Mr Singh said slain al Qaeda chief Osama Bin Laden was in Pakistan for a long time and he could not have stayed there without ISI's help.

Lots of other tit bits available:

Pakistan Sponsoring Terrorism, Dawood is in Afghan Border: Rajnath Singh

CRamS · Post by **CRamS** » 22 Nov 2014 19:48

rajpa wrote: We cant simply stay away from talks. They will start irritating us in the international fora saying India should be open to talks.

We should also impose impossible / extremely irritating conditions of our own.

Your second statement is correct, and India's current stance. For sure TSP and its 3.5 will irritate India, but India can and should withstand that pressure.

Note that the current diplomatic impasse is also a dialogue of sorts, and India's stance is its negotiating position. Previously, with TSP insisting on taking the Harried rats on its side before talks with India, and with US nodding its head in approval, it effectively meant that the talks were all about India finding some honorable way of handing over the valley to TSP. The new stance as eloquently articulated by JaitlyJi is that TSP has to decide if wants to talk to India or talk to those who want to break India. This effectively puts an end to TSP's (and US's) ardent desire and dream to break India.

This is the sacred principle that I hope ModiJi will not budge from not matter what charm offensive or pressure US pulls on him.

A_Gupta · Post by **A_Gupta** » 22 Nov 2014 20:39

g.sarkar wrote:Bad dins are here:
http://www.livemint.com/Politics/jSf7zU ... ridor.html
China commits $45.6 billion for Pakistan corridor The deal further cements their ties at a time when Pakistan is nervous about waning US support
The Chinese government and banks will finance Chinese companies to build $45.6 billion worth of energy and infrastructure projects in Pakistan over next six years, according to new details of the deal seen by Reuters on Friday. The Chinese companies will be able to operate the projects as profit-making entities, according to the deal signed by Prime Minister Nawaz Sharif during a visit to China earlier this month. At the time, officials provided few details of the projects or the financing for the deal, dubbed the China-Pak Economic Corridor (CPEC). The deal further cements ties between Pakistan and China at a time when Pakistan is nervous about waning US support as troops pull out of Afghanistan.....
Gautam

Gone up by $3.6 billion since Sharif visited China, two weeks ago. Therefore by December 8, this number will go to $49.3 billion is my prediction.

disha · Post by **disha** » 22 Nov 2014 23:06

Rahul M wrote:

Ombaba - Yeh chota lag raha hain
Sharif - Arrey - Hai Allah ...

disha · Post by **disha** » 22 Nov 2014 23:19

CRamS wrote:... The new stance as eloquently articulated by JaitlyJi is that TSP has to decide if wants to talk to India or talk to those who want to break India. This effectively puts an end to TSP's (and US's) ardent desire and dream to break India.

This is the sacred principle that I hope ModiJi will not budge from not matter what charm offensive or pressure US pulls on him.

What happens if Modi tomorrow states that we will have talks with Pakistan in Pakistan as soon as the situation normalizes in Pakistan? Will that be #Blow2Modi?

Modi will do whatever he will do for Indian Interests. If that means smoking the peace pipe - he will do it.

Here is the short of the entire US-Baki entangle :

1. US wants to contain India, by controlling Bakistan. Without Bakistan, Indian influence will extend all the way to CAR'stans and hook up with both the Mid-west (Iran/Turkey/Syria) and the North-East (Mongolia, Ulaan-butter, Tibet) - this will put all the current security council out of business.

Bakistan is the lynch pin to above and it understands its role.

2. Bakistan wants to needle India and break it into 1000+ pieces by fighting 1000 year war - all to deliver India on a platter to its ooh-ma biraders.

US is the lynch pin to above and it understands its role.

So what will India do? India will do what it has to do to break out of #1 and not get entangled in #2. It will be in fits and starts and sometimes it will be step backs when MMS likes come to power.

sanjaykumar · Post by **sanjaykumar** » 23 Nov 2014 00:07

Okay, a Paki has finally snapped. Get the consular services at the ready.

http://www.dawn.com/news/1146174/houbar ... onal-pride

Anujan · Post by **Anujan** » 23 Nov 2014 03:37

http://southasia.foreignpolicy.com/post ... censorship

Yet there is also a more elusive problem within the country's press landscape: the collusion of Pakistan's powerful military and the nation's media outlets. I experienced this first-hand while I worked as a journalist at the Express Tribune during the recent protests led by Khan, the populist cricketer-turned-politician, and Qadri, a Pakistani-Canadian cleric and soapbox orator.

During this time, the owners of Pakistani media powerhouses -- namely ARY News, the Express Media Group, and Dunya News -- received instructions from the military establishment to support the "dissenting" leaders and their sit-ins. The military was using the media to add muscle and might to the anti-government movement in an attempt to cut Prime Minister Nawaz Sharif down to size.

Something we already knew. And the Pakis start all their articles with "Pakistan's free and vibrant media......"

Paul · Post by **Paul** » 23 Nov 2014 07:59

Nayar's sober and I may add (pessimistic) analysis: He thinks we are overestimating the impact of Modi diplomacy. But nothing new for BRFites. We know US will always have a soft corner for Pakistan and China will support it proxy. Most important takeaway is the Russian change in policy for arms to Pakistan. We need to measure the outcome Putin visit in Dec.

The question we need to find an answer to is why is Russia willing to risk it's relationship with India for a measly 20 Mi-35 helicopter gunships.

http://www.telegraphindia.com/1141123/j ... HFPqzSUdKs

A toast to India and three cheers for Pak

- Delhi jubilant but neighbour scores with Obama call, China cash & Russian military deal
K.P. NAYAR

Obama, (above) Sharif
Nov. 22: Even as hurried toasts were proposed last night in south Delhi’s upscale drawing rooms following a surprise prime-time announcement about Barack Obama’s second coming to India and BJP ministers smugly sat back in Lutyens Delhi marvelling over another diplomatic coup by their government, the ground quietly shifted from under the feet of Narendra Modi, the author of what could be the biggest transformation in Indian strategic thinking in many decades.

Those who were celebrating the Prime Minister’s second “conquest” of America in as many months did not know on Friday night that the US President had first telephoned Pakistan’s Prime Minister Nawaz Sharif before the White House announced Obama’s decision to accept Modi’s invitation to be chief guest at next year’s Republic Day celebrations.

The few on Raisina Hill, the fountainhead of Modi’s authority, who knew that Obama had put through his call to Sharif decided that it was expedient to ignore the harsh reality of how much the US and Pakistan are joined at the hip. Acknowledging it would have poured cold water on the night’s celebratory mood.

Obama’s call to Sharif from Air Force One, the presidential jet, on its way from Washington to Las Vegas was not the only subterranean tremor that shifted the ground from under Modi’s feet on a night that was to be triumphantly his.

Almost at the very moment that Modi tweeted Obama’s January 26 plans, China leaked details of how it intends to invest $45.6 billion in Pakistan between now and 2020. Given the size of Pakistan’s economy and its capacity to absorb investments, the amount that China is investing in Pakistan following Sharif’s visit to Beijing a few days ago is proportionately equal to at least $200 billion if such funds were to have been negotiated with an economy of India’s size and scope.

In one sweep, it throws out of the window the spin being orchestrated by the NDA government that Islamabad is isolated and that New Delhi will resume its bilateral talks with Pakistan only from a position of superior strength and solely on India’s terms.

The worst news for India’s security was not either of these discomfiting developments. For the first time since Pakistan was born and New Delhi and Moscow swore with their hands on each other’s hearts to stand together through times good and bad, Russia signed a military cooperation agreement with the army establishment in Rawalpindi on Thursday.

Normally, just the news that Russia’s defence minister had paid a visit to Pakistan for the very first time when Moscow’s preferred partner was always New Delhi ought to have triggered an overkill of diplomatic activity in South Block, where the ministry of external affairs and the Prime Minister’s Office are located.

Such visits and plans for weapons sales to Pakistan by Russia had been nixed by successive Indian governments in the past. But the present dispensation led by the BJP either did not think it was necessary to do anything or they failed in their effort.

Either way, such is the excitement in New Delhi over Obama’s plans that everything else is dangerously and complacently on the backburner.

White House spokesperson Eric Schultz confirmed that the President did call Sharif from Air Force One. But beyond the nicety that the leaders talked about advancing “shared interests in a stable, secure, and prosperous Pakistan and region”, the spokesperson would say little more.

The use of the word “region” was a giveaway, however. In Islamabad, the foreign ministry was more specific. In a statement, the ministry said: “President Obama informed the Prime Minister of his forthcoming visit to India.”

Sharif flagged the recent visit by Afghanistan’s new President, Ashraf Ghani, to Islamabad as proof of Pakistan’s sincerity in stabilising Kabul after the upcoming US withdrawal from a war that began 13 years ago. “The US President appreciated the Prime Minister’s efforts.”

The spin in New Delhi tonight, once Obama’s call to Sharif became known, was that Islamabad was panicking over Modi’s January 26 invitation to the White House and that Pakistan was banking on America to bail it out on Kashmir.

Sources in Washington said Obama was relieved that Sharif did not put him in a spot by asking him to mediate on Kashmir or on relations with India, as was Islamabad’s past practice. Public statements corroborate that claim.

It is clear from the foreign ministry’s statement that Sharif scored brownie points with America by being reasonable and asking only for “the resumption of bilateral dialogue, the onus (for which) is on India to create a conducive environment.... President Obama expressed his understanding for our position.”

Sharif asked Obama to stress on the Indian leadership that an “early resolution (of the Kashmir dispute) would bring enduring peace, stability and economic cooperation to Asia”. It is clear that the overall emphasis by Sharif was on “peace and prosperity in South Asia”. He did not rail at New Delhi at any point.

Apart from the signing of a military cooperation agreement, what ought to worry the Modi government is that the visiting Russian defence minister, Sergei Shoigu, “appreciated the skill and expertise of Pakistani armed forces in fighting the war against terrorism”, a statement said.

At a time when India is trying to portray Pakistan as the fountainhead of terrorism, this approach represents a huge strategic shift by Moscow on terrorism in South Asia.

“The world community not only praises but wants to do business with Pakistan now,” Shoigu was quoted as saying in Islamabad. He also extolled Pakistan’s defence production capacity.

Maybe this explains the low key Pakistani response to Obama's announcement to visit India. and we still do not know what freebies will be released to TSP post Raheel's visit.

Tuvaluan · Post by **Tuvaluan** » 23 Nov 2014 08:32

If the US is resetting its relations with its paki slave army for some new purpose, and given that US is trying to attack a weakened Russia via ukraine, then Russia would have ensure that this is not a cold-war redux scenario where the pakis send their terrorists and heroin to Russia.

Clearly, Russia views it in its interests to be nice to the paki slave army and its terrorist minions for tactical reasons. India is clearly doing the same when it comes to interacting with both Russia and the USA. Moscow is clearly only interested in the paki terrorists to the extent the paki terrorist minions can help with terrorism against Russia. AFAICT, it all seems like reactions on expected lines -- the pakis have been given leverage in Afghanisthan with US/Saudi/Qatar assistance again via Ghani, so everyone in the region neighbouring the terrorist paki septic tank has to take defensive measures to ensure that the pakis redirect their attention elsewhere.

g.sarkar · Post by **g.sarkar** » 23 Nov 2014 08:38

JE Menon wrote:Obama: no lube
Nawaz: for good sharif or bad sharif?

The dialog went like this:
Badmash: Baba, Help me with Kashmir. Allah ke naam pe de de Baba.
Om Baba: Barkhurdar! Allah ne apki kismat gadhe ke lund se likh kar haanthi ke lund se full estop maar diya hai. Iske baad koin kuchh nahin kar sakta.

Shreeman · Post by **Shreeman** » 23 Nov 2014 08:42

^^^ Misphortunately, this is not the right interpretation.

Russia has simbly decided not to shun countriej bekauje of a compulsion from the west (syria, north korea, eyeran, ...) or indiya (bakistan). The roosis will not give up their markets -- jusht like us or cheen sell to each other, to tai-waan, to bakistan and even to eyeran recently.

Thge baskistan developments have to be seen in the context of recent large contract trade and vijits to/from eyeran, north korea, seeriya, bakistan and so on.

In the conext of bakistan, indiyan stupidity ( not in buying usa made crap, but in bad mouthing russian crap whern 95% of the hardware ij russiyan) has certainly tilted scales some. But the solushun is drying of coalishun support funds and baksheeshej -- not preventing trade between russiya/bakistan.

trade with russiya means no trade with usa/china, anbd usa/china baksheesh going to russiya. win/win. far more likely russiyan hardware will be sanctioned in a war then usa/cheen hardware.

You spend 20-50B with US/EU in defense hardware, eggspekt 15-20B in baksheesh to bakistan in return. At lkeast russiya no longer distributes kjairaat.

rajpa · Post by **rajpa** » 23 Nov 2014 08:51

RajeshA wrote:
rajpa wrote:A good one could be to insist that we will talk only to the TSPA till the 'Kashmir issue' is resolved as the civilian leadership is powerless and we will talk only to the "core leadership" of TSP. That way they cannot say that we are not open to talks and we can also force them to recognize the TSPA as a stakeholder, much as they would like us to recognize K separatists as stakeholders. This should be done in a sophisticated way so that we do appear reasonable.
But why do we need to give any legitimacy to TSPA? Why should we talk to terrorists? They are only for target practice!

Nawaz Sharif is not our opponent. In fact he is a big zero, and we don't need to rub it in that he is a big zero. We just don't have a partner for talks with Pakistan. It's that simple!

This is not about NS or TSPA only. It is about how to negotiate with TSP and to gain a diplomatic advantage.

TSP always gains an advantage in the "optics" race by making statements that the international community (intkamnati) wants to hear. And that is an advantage they have wrt us in the diplomatic world - as an underdog.

Note that TSPA do have an asymmetrical advantage wrt us by sponsoring terrorism. We should acknowledge that and offer to start discussing with them directly. The intkamnati will see this as positive engagement from our side.

It will drive a wedge between NS and TSPA again. NS may offer words of protest but the real power rests elsewhere. TSPA will be conflicted with this legitimacy we are offering them, but will have to accept this position or back down which will not go well with their domestic ghairat brigades or their terrorist counterparts.

All discussions with TSPA will be documented and publicised. Their bravado will not be a good negotiating position and ultimately will be a downhill ski.

svinayak · Post by **svinayak** » 23 Nov 2014 08:58

Tuvaluan wrote:If the US is resetting its relations with its paki slave army for some new purpose, and given that US is trying to attack a weakened Russia via ukraine, then Russia would have ensure that this is not a cold-war redux scenario where the pakis send their terrorists and heroin to Russia.
.

This is trading places

In the COld war it was
US->China->Pakistan

USSR/Russia-> India

Now from 2014 it will be

China/PRC->Russia->Pakistan

US-> India

It has a double Impact.

The west wants to break the BRICS growing influence. India has to find out how much effort they will put into breaking BRICS

Can Indian leadership be cunning that it can keep one feet in BRICS and another in US interest group.

There is an understanding between US and Russia to not to leave a vacuum in AfPak region

pankajs · Post by **pankajs** » 23 Nov 2014 09:09

On Nayar's article

Russians are miffed at our diversification drive wrt weapons. They are courting our rival to make us feel jealous. Theek his let them try that gambit.

I wonder how many times has the ground shifted under Modi since May for I am sure there have been many more conversations between Loin and Ombaba.

Tuvaluan · Post by **Tuvaluan** » 23 Nov 2014 09:12

Now from 2014 it will be

China/PRC->Russia->Pakistan

US-> India

That is a rather far-reaching statement -- does appear to me that it is all that cut and dry.

All of these entities will engage each other in different dimensions.

economically -- US-China-Pakistan and China-russia and India-Russia and US-India -- don't see any evidence of US-India engagement there except for some rhetoric during the PM NM's visit to the US, but I put this in because there is definitely no strategic engagement happening.

Militarilty -- US-Pakistan, Russia-India, US-China, China-Pakistan and now Russia-Pakistan

These seem to be the dominating dimensions of interaction -- the picture is not likely to be static and depend on the actions of the individual players. Feel free to add/subract/rant at the analysis.