India-US Relations : News and Discussion

[Pratyush]

No but engage the US knowing that it will double cross us at the first opportunity. That being the case, we should also look to double cross them at the first opportunity.

[anmol]

India’s Obligation on Climate
by THE EDITORIAL BOARD, nytimes.com
November 22nd 2014

The breakthrough announcement last week by the United States and China of a deal setting limits on greenhouse gases has offered new hope for a global agreement on climate change. The U.S.-China deal follows the European Union’s ambitious pledge to reduce emissions by 40 percent of 1990 levels by 2030. Now the world needs India, already the world’s third-largest emitter of greenhouse gases, to add to the momentum. Without India on board, the best efforts of the rest of the world will not be enough. Which means that India must rethink its relationship with coal and redouble its investment in developing renewable energies.

India’s long-held position is that it will not sacrifice eradicating poverty to limit carbon emissions. Nearly 300 million Indians have no access to electricity, and millions more live with regular power cuts and brownouts. India’s current share of global greenhouse gas emissions is 7 percent, compared with a combined share of about 45 percent for the United States and China. But India’s economy is growing fast, and the energy infrastructure India builds now will determine its capacity to rein in emissions over the next critical decades for climate change.

To its credit, India is making a big push for solar energy, and is home to Asia’s largest solar plant. Prime Minister Narendra Modi has pledged to create a 50,000-strong “solar army” to help rapidly expand India’s solar capacity — and train job-hungry young Indians in the technologies of the future.

Unfortunately, India is also betting big on coal. In the last five years alone, India increased its coal power capacity by 73 percent. To fuel the new plants, India plans to double domestic coal production to one billion tons a year by 2019, and boost imports, notably from Australia. Pollution from India’s coal plants — largely unregulated and unmonitored — kills up to 115,000 Indians a year, and costs India’s economy as much as $4.6 billion. India’s air is among the world’s dirtiest.

It is in India’s interest to act. The droughts and floods that are likely to result from unchecked climate change will hit India particularly hard. The next round of climate talks convene in Lima, Peru, on Dec. 1. India should be willing to join other major emitters by indicating, at least in broad terms, how much it intends to limit greenhouse gas emissions — with details to be filled in at the climate summit meeting in Paris next year.

[schinnas]

Regardless of US's past actions vis a vis India (some of it due to sheer incompetency, lack of forsightedness of past US governments, and Pakis pulling a fast one on US, anti-India SD elements from cold-war times), in a world that is threatened by rising militant islamic fundamentalism and Chinese imperialistic ambitions, India and US will need to become allies. I just don't see another option. In terms of people to people contact, Indians and Amercians (atleast the ones that are knowledgeable about India) have substantial mutual goodwill and are mutually influenced culturally.

Very glad that Modi has the vision to see through that clearly and steer our foreign policy. NSA Doval's recent public proclamations on need to be prepared to fight a two front war and China and Pak sharing common antagonistic stance against India fits in very well. Getting both Republican and Democratic top leadership to see the benefits of allying with India will help. In that sense, US President Obama coming in as chief guest at India Republic Day is a great move. It is more than symbolic.

It is time for us to give India-US relationship a fresh chance. There is growing realisation in US about the perfidity, backstabbing and double games by Pakis. Gradual retiring of old school anti-India elements in SD will only help in this process. If it could be accelerated by POTUS it would be great. Robin Raphael getting the axe is a very welcome step as Pakis lost their mole-in-chief in SD.

To be clear by becoming an ally with US, I am not suggesting India should lose her long cherished independence (briefly held in abeyance by MMS). One can still be an ally with US while continuing to have a spine. It will just need a strong leadership that can dextrously handle this relationship.

[Tuvaluan]

schinnas:"n a world that is threatened by rising militant islamic fundamentalism and Chinese imperialistic ambitions, India and US will need to become allies. I just don't see another option. "

Hate to point out the obvious here, but it is the US that is currently aiding islamic fundamentalism where ever it sees a need to do so, with the help of Qatar these days. Pakistan is still being funded while it commits genocide while Myanmar is being raised as a focal point for islamists by pointing to the plight of the rohingyas.

Which of these events suggests that US and India have any common interests when it comes to islamic fundamentalism. David Headley won't be the last terrorist who creates trouble in India with full knowledge of the US govt. -- as long as these islamist terrorists do not create trouble in the USA, it is not the US's problem. This much should be obvious from past history and present US dealings with islamist countries.

[Tuvaluan]

schinnas:"One can still be an ally with US while continuing to have a spine. It will just need a strong leadership that can dextrously handle this relationship."

The US govt. (comes from someone as high up as the US State Dept.'s Strobe Talbott) does not consider India an ally, so it would foolish for India to consider US an ally. Whereever interests are aligned the countries will work together, otherwise they go their separate ways. Islamic terrorism is not an area where India and US can work together, as long as the US works with its paki slave army. This has been made clear by people in the Indian govt.

[CRamS]

TuvaluanJi,

Regarding Strobe Talbott, somebody else also mentioned earlier that he made some statement that US would be foolish to consider India as an ally. Where did he say that? He is a slime ball no doubt, but as snake oil diplomat, I'd be surprised if he were to so brazenly make such a statement. Curious to see any source that has this statement of his. BTW: In one correspondence, Uneven told me that Strobe has a picture of Jassu Bhai in his office as one of the leaders he "admires" and holds in high esteem . These s$it heads are so full of themselves.

[pankajs]

Assuming the Ombaba visit goes ahead as schedules the next POTUS will have to visit India twice in his 2 terms to equal Ombaba's record. If the next POTUS decides to top Ombaba he will probably have to visit India 3 times.

BTW, The next POTUS term will end with Modi's if both have a 2 term reign. If the next POTUS decides to visit Indian only once will it signal a downgrading of relationship?

[Madhusudhan]

Found this on rediff regarding strobe Talbott's quote:

"India and the US are not now, and may never be allies. And, by the way, one reason we may never be or not, in the foreseeable future, is because there is still a huge constituency in support of India's non-aligned status, despite the fact that I would say that non-alignment and the non-aligned movement is very much an artifact of the Cold War."

http://www.rediff.com/news/slide-show/s ... 110707.htm

[ramana]

India is a natural power. The side that it favors will emerge as winner. The US moves are to prevent India from joining the others. Even Berkeley yahoos, who host anti-India groups, are suggesting US join with India.

And if you read Paul Kennedy this precisely Balance of Power strategy.
Not Great Power strategy.

So think for yourself.

[Cosmo_R]

What Strobe Talbott is saying is that India will not play the role the US expects of its allies. The ABCA countries, Japan and other NATO allies have outsourced their foreign policies to the US.

Summary: India will not play either the role of a Pakistan nor that of a UK. Indian interests will more often than not converge with those of the US and there will be cooperation. Where the interests diverge, there will concerns expressed privately and the divergence will not be allowed to become media fodder.

[A_Gupta]

http://indianexpress.com/article/world/ ... ith-pak/3/

In the US, there was a lot of admiration and optimism about Prime Minister Modi’s decision to go to Japan and to develop what was already a good relationship with Prime Minister (Shinzo) Abe. Japan is a treaty ally of the United States. But no sensible American is thinking about an India-US alliance. That is off the table. And it is not just because of the heritage of the non-aligned movement. It is because that just isn’t the way the world should work now. No sensible American should promote US-Indian relations as a strategic counterweight to China because that is unworthy of the two countries involved – United States and India — and will only have a provocative effect on China. - See more at: http://indianexpress.com/article/world/ ... vvLas.dpuf

[CRamS]

Thx A_Gupta. But when I first heard someone cite that quote from Strobe Talbott, it seemed to be in a pejorative sense, but when read in the above context, it doesn't sound that way at all.

Having said that, no doubt he is in the SD, Uneven mould, a very suave, used-car salesman, using sophisticated diplomatic mumbo jumbo to essentially say India TSP equal equal. Most recently, he gave huge space and publicized that arse-hole William Dalrymple's crap that real problem in Afghanistan is India TSP proxy war: drawing a moral equivalence between India trying to gain influence by doing the right thing, and TSP doing the same through destruction. As a colonial bahadur, he cannot see any "good" from India, it always has to be through an India TSP equal equal lens.

[habal]

No but engage the US knowing that it will double cross us at the first opportunity. That being the case, we should also look to double cross them at the first opportunity.

I meant supporting losing side twice.

[member_20317]

http://indianexpress.com/article/world/ ... ith-pak/3/

In the US, there was a lot of admiration and optimism about Prime Minister Modi’s decision to go to Japan and to develop what was already a good relationship with Prime Minister (Shinzo) Abe. Japan is a treaty ally of the United States. But no sensible American is thinking about an India-US alliance. That is off the table. And it is not just because of the heritage of the non-aligned movement. It is because that just isn’t the way the world should work now. No sensible American should promote US-Indian relations as a strategic counterweight to China because that is unworthy of the two countries involved – United States and India — and will only have a provocative effect on China. - See more at: http://indianexpress.com/article/world/ ... vvLas.dpuf

That is the real problem with trusting the Americans. They are here to perpetuate a hegemony, regardless. They will not compete against the Chinese in any real sense just as they sucked up to the Pakis who are much much much lower down every order. US relationships with the Arabs or at other times with the Chinese only makes them unreliable. There can be no competition between China and US they are only pretending like they have pretended for last so many decades. It is more like a court drama between competing courtiers and the rest of the world is merely expected to join in behind one or the other so that these two people can then negotiate the terms of settlement in some resort through some portly baboons. The party standing against the Americans have changed in the last century from Uropeons to Soviets to Chinese but the architecture remains. US is the Congress-I of the world. Just as a long line of idiots/Gandhis, kept the people stupified for decades in India so do these people. Remember the series of MFN statuses to the Chinese. Even at that time the Chinese were accused of spying/stealing. Then under different administrations again they were charged for the same thing. Under such a situation the accusations can be safely disregarded and a policy can be suspected.

Indians have to learn becoming independent and remaining independent. Only in an independent status can we pursue our independent competitions properly. Our long term competition with China or Pakistan or anybody else stands independent of US and not because of US. With US we will surely become another vassal state because that is what the current architecture is supposed to protect.

To top it all the Viets, Talibans, Chinese, Russians all the people who were impoverished for much of their recent history and come from all types of backgrounds, standing for all types of ideologies, have shown how Amerikha is irrelevant. Just as much as the allies of the Amerikha who despite colluding with US are all merely nakli countries.

We should be like the Chinese - take what we want spit what we do not. Amerikhan money is what we really need. After that we can probably desire their weapons too (notice desire, not need). Just buy whatever is needed in open market transactions without the baggage of 'friendship'.

[RajeshA]

The crux of American politics is still oriented towards neutralizing Russia. As long as Russia stands independent, American hegemony over the West is incomplete, and just as Sunnis can't stand Shi'a, same way Americans can't stand Russians.

The only way, USA would come out of this dynamic is if the Western world (Whites) again become tripolar with Germany becoming a separate pole. If Scotland had got its independence, this would have become reality. Then American policy would again have revolved around balancing, and in some cases it would have involved balancing the Germans with the help of the Russians as it happened in World War II.

For that UK has to disappear from EU, and Germany has to take over the reins of EU, perhaps with the help of the French. Then West is again tripolar and American obsession with Russia ends.

Until the obsession with Russia endures, US would sleep with every bit of trash in the world - Chinese, Pakis, Saudis, ISIS, whatever...

[CRamS]

RajeshAJi,

Intreesting you say that. I start from the abstract and go to the concrete. What I mean is no doubt there is tension between US and Russia. But when I see Russians in the west, specifically US/UK where I have had many a encounter with them, they seem quite well integrated and at ease with Americans. Point being that at the core, don't see Russians in any way at odds per se with western civilization like say Islamic or Hindu civilization. So do you really see US and Russia at a civilizational level are at unbridgeable odds? I am not so sure.

[RajeshA]

So do you really see US and Russia at a civilizational level are at unbridgeable odds? I am not so sure.

CRamS ji,

Russians today are part of the Western world, culturally speaking, though of course they all speak Russian, and have their own history. But in their behavior towards Americans or other Westerners and vice versa, there is NO hostility.

The hostility is not at people's level, and yes in that way, it is different between Sunnis and Shi'a.

The hostility is only at national level. Perhaps the example of Saudi Arabia and Iran would have been more appropriate.

It is the fact that Russia is part of the West, that really makes the hostility towards Russia all the more intense, because USA that way does not feel that it's crown is secure.

USA is on the other side of the globe. Russia is a European power. If there is integration in Europe, it is far more probable that Russia and other European countries would come nearer. This creates insecurity within USA establishment.

So it wants Russia to cede itself to American hegemony of the West. This Russia would not do, and so the dynamic endures.

One problem for Russia is that Russia has lost almost all of its soft-power in the world, including Europe, and that is a real pity.

[SwamyG]

SwamyGJi, I agree with you, and I have myself said so. But I am not sure, India has to bend over backwards. There must be some quid pro quo from US. And TSP is a good place to start.

India, or for that matter no country, has to bend over backwards for everything. A country is expected to put its interests foremost. However, as a good global citizen and being practical, countries would have to compromise. So if India prioritizes, say top 10, it requires from the other countries; then it should also be able to decide what items it will compromise on and on what it will not.

India needs to be strong, honest (within the diplomatic framework) and upfront; and make it known it will not be taken to be a doormat or toilet - however it is willing to negotiate. At the same time, India needs to fully understand and acknowledge the countries for what they are and negotiate accordingly. Countries are enemies or friends on a short time basis. Just because Russia or USA acted foolish in the past does not mean India has to strut around and act foolish.

I am glad India has Modi at the head. He is practical and is determined to get what he wants.

[SwamyG]

In spite of all your pro-Soviet (er pro-Russia) and anti-USA rants (posts), the truth of the matter is USA is one of the leading powers in this multi-polar World. In spite of USA's duplicity and what not, USA still influences most of the world, including Russia and China. India was forced to pick the loser in the last cold-war. In the next cold-war, India IS GOING to be PART OF it, and cannot ignore USA in the known future.

so you want India to repeat mistake twice ?

If you agree with my opinion (that is what it is for all 2cents of it), that India will be part of the next cold war - as long as Modi or similar person is the PM, what would you want India to do? USA, Russia and China are going to be top 3 dogs. If India wants to be the 4th one, it better deal with the other countries differently than what it had done for the last 60+ years.

India should articulate what it wants, and not display the wishy-washy Nehruvian foreign policies, it does not have to trust any country blindly either. It can be firm and pick its alliances. If it happens to lose, so be it.

[svinayak]

India should articulate what it wants, and not display the wishy-washy Nehruvian foreign policies, it does not have to trust any country blindly either. It can be firm and pick its alliances. If it happens to lose, so be it.

It is very simple. $100B in new market access needed for India and support for $100B in FDI investment into India

[CRamS]

SwamyGJi, unless there is something cooking behind the scenes, I think ModiJi's overeageness to court US is unwise. He could have waited for a while. The contours post his visit to US don't add up to much. US has stabbed India on its back in Afghanistan. Note Ghani's refusal to have India play a key role. And apart from that Pentagon report, I haven't see any meaningful pressure on TSP on India-specific terror. In fact, US is very careful to eschew LeT when demanding that TSP crack down. Any way, my point is that while relationship with US is crucial, ModiJi is being a tad too hasty IMO.

[Prem]

It is very simple. $100B in new market access needed for India and support for $100B in FDI investment into India

500 not 100 billion .

[Victor]

SwamyGJi, I agree with you, and I have myself said so. But I am not sure, India has to bend over backwards. There must be some quid pro quo from US. And TSP is a good place to start.

Things change, give it time. The NYT article on Raphel mentions that the new Foreign Service types are suspicious of Pakistan and these people are fast replacing the old SD types like RR who are "out of step within the State Department". It would be unthinkable a few years ago to let the search of her home and office be done in the full light of day for the media to pick up and broadcast. There are wheels within wheels turning. With the Americans leaving Af-Pak this year, Pakistan will lose a lot of attention while Afghanistan's govt and military machinery is being left firmly under the grip of the Northern Alliance. Modi's best buddies (and I mean real buddies) are Obama, Abbot and Abe. All three leaders must acknowledge the fact that India peacefully held the largest democratic elections in the history of mankind and Modi and the "Hindu Nationalist" BJP won it with an overwhelming majority. For the first two, the Indian diaspora in their countries with its increasing clout, contribution and reputation has proved itself to be overwhelmingly pro-Modi and die-hard nationalistic. Where does all of this point?

[habal]

If it happens to lose, so be it.

See that's the problem. Losing is not an option. With 1.5 billion peoples, you just can't afford to lose. Also there is one another risk. This time around, the victors will ensure slow and elongated periods of suffering, because the victor neither is powerful enough to enforce their will nor the loser powerless enough to capitulate completely.

I would like to give some leeway to Modi and think that he is signalling the half-a-dozen big international investors who control most of the companies and have sympathies to US-allied countries as safe destinations thus signalling India as a safe investment destination rather than seeking any sort of alliance with US. That would be tad too naive for someone who keeps Ajit Doval's company.

[Viv S]

If you agree with my opinion (that is what it is for all 2cents of it), that India will be part of the next cold war - as long as Modi or similar person is the PM, what would you want India to do? USA, Russia and China are going to be top 3 dogs. If India wants to be the 4th one, it better deal with the other countries differently than what it had done for the last 60+ years.

Geopolitical strength is first and foremost a function of economic strength. Russia hasn't been top dog since 1991, and it'll never return to that even in the distant future. It was different in the Soviet days, when non-Russian SFSRs accounted for half of the country's population, with economic dominion also exercised over the Eastern bloc. Today the Eastern block has been all but lost to the German-led EU and the breakaway Central Asian republics to the Chinese-led SCO.

At best, Russia will remain a 'great power' at par with an emerging UK-France combine and possibly a resurgent Japan. The future is still bi-polar albeit much less confrontational than in the Cold War days. A US-led Pacific alliance with ties to the EU & NATO on one end and a China-Russia axis with ties to Pakistan, Iran & NK on the other.

India remains the odd one out. Its large enough not to be second fiddle to China or the US, yet not large enough to constitute a third pole by itself (not for a long while anyway). It'll however still be strong enough to decisively tip the strategic balance in Asia.

Ordinarily, with our NAM history and all, we'd have liked nothing better than to stay uninvolved. Unfortunately that's a luxury we may not have in the coming years. The Chinese have already started to probe and push on the LAC, in addition to what pressure they can apply via Pakistan. We're outmatched militarily, economically and strategically.

Its a myopic move on China's part given India' projected growth trajectory over the next two decades, (something Xi Jinping probably realises as he tries to bring the PLA to heel) but it is what it is.

[James B]

Hagel Said to Be Stepping Down as Defense Chief Under Pressure (from Obama)

Defense Secretary Chuck Hagel is stepping down under pressure, the first cabinet-level casualty of the collapse of President Obama’s Democratic majority in the Senate and a beleaguered national security team that has struggled to stay ahead of an onslaught of global crises.

Read on twitter that he was anti-India?. Was he?.

UPDATE:

President Obama has accepted Defense Secretary Chuck Hagel's resignation: reut.rs/15eeG5z

[RajeshA]

Read on twitter that he was anti-India?. Was he?.

I too had this impression, based on something or the other he uttered some time back. Forgot the exact the details!

[arun]

Hagel Said to Be Stepping Down as Defense Chief Under Pressure (from Obama)

...............{Snipped}...............

Read on twitter that he was anti-India?. Was he?.

Washington Free Beacon in Feb 2013 disclosed that in a previously unreleased 2011 speech Chuck Hagel said “India for some time has always used Afghanistan as a second front, and India has over the years financed problems for Pakistan on that side of the border “. Video is embedded. You decide :

Chuck Hagel’s Indian Problem : Said allied nation is funding attacks on Pakistan in Afghanistan in previously unreleased 2011 speech

[rajithn]

I too had this impression, based on something or the other he uttered some time back. Forgot the exact the details!

He made quite a speech with proclamations that India finances trouble in Afghanistan. He changed his tune a bit much later. But the damage was done.

[anmol]

Read on twitter that he was anti-India?. Was he?.

I too had this impression, based on something or the other he uttered some time back. Forgot the exact the details!

He said something like: "India is using Afghanistan as a front against Pakistan and is financing "problems" for Pakistan"

Chuck Hagel criticised for India-Afghanistan remarks

Chuck Hagel, Barack Obama's new defence secretary, has been criticised over remarks in which he claimed India was using assistance to Afghanistan as a "second front" in its long-running conflict with Pakistan.

[arun]

I am beginning to wonder if GOI would be considered lucky if an invitation to the US President Barak Obama to be the Chief Guest at the Republic Day Parade 2015 was held off.

Has India been lumbered with hosting a prematurely lame duck US President?

[UlanBatori]

No. Whatever follows BO is going to be faaaaar worse. T-Partistani or Hillary. Better to do chai-biscoot with BO and get it out of the system. Imagine the image: when NaMo went to DupleeCity it was painted as some "OK, BO had to grit his teeth but what 2 do, he is PM of a big nashun onlee!"

How does one explain when BO goes TO said nashun on its Re-Public Din and the Agni mijjile goes cruising by, and the Su-30s zoom overhead and everyone cheers and BO is part of the cheering gallery?

That is the beauty of the R-Din invitation. Who gives a pakistan WHICH particular POTUS goes?

[Aditya_V]

And imagine how it plays in the average and Jihadi eyes. Now they will be totally convinced Yevil America is with India. Is Obama like Bill Clinton in his last year. The parallels are uncanny, Newly Elected BJP Govt, lame duck president, Pakis feeling insulted etc.

[RajeshA]

He said something like: "India is using Afghanistan as a front against Pakistan and is financing "problems" for Pakistan"

Chuck Hagel criticised for India-Afghanistan remarks

Chuck Hagel, Barack Obama's new defence secretary, has been criticised over remarks in which he claimed India was using assistance to Afghanistan as a "second front" in its long-running conflict with Pakistan.

Thanks anmol ji!

[Prem]

SwamyGJi, I agree with you, and I have myself said so. But I am not sure, India has to bend over backwards. There must be some quid pro quo from US. And TSP is a good place to start.

. Modi's best buddies (and I mean real buddies) are Obama, Abbot and Abe. All three leaders must acknowledge the fact that India peacefully held the largest democratic elections in the history of mankind and Modi and the "Hindu Nationalist" BJP won it with an overwhelming majority. For the first two, the Indian diaspora in their countries with its increasing clout, contribution and reputation has proved itself to be overwhelmingly pro-Modi and die-hard nationalistic.

Its Abe Obama Abbot
Mittra E Modi's , AOA=Abe Obama Abbot
Wondering if WEST have run out of ideas and know not how to handle islamists & Chinist & Modi bring the fresh thinking to glue them all together.

[svinayak]

Its Abe Obama Abbot
Mittra E Modi's , AOA=Abe Obama Abbot
Wondering if WEST have run out of ideas and know not how to handle islamists & Chinist & Modi bring the fresh thinking to glue them all together.

All of them want Indians to fight and put the money for the long term effort. They want it free.

[Surya]

the way the US presidency is last few decades the PResident is always a lame duck in the last 2 years

[UlanBatori]

Not 2 mention, lame brain in the first 6

[Prem]

Mittra E Modi's , AOA=Abe Obama Abbot
Wondering if WEST have run out of ideas and know not how to handle islamists & Chinist & Modi bring the fresh thinking to glue them all together.All of them want Indians to fight and put the money for the long term effort. They want it free.

Free, Even Their lord god bargain and demand upfront allegiance. There are going to be two, three groupings and instead of Cold war or Hot war,it will be lukewarm, informational& economic war. Right now not being an anchor, India have to participate but not join on permanent basis.

[SaiK]

oooh! now he is chuked hagel! pushed out from floor 108!