Positive News from the USA

[UlanBatori]

I think BO should send the 82nd Airborne Division like Kennedy did to Alabama, and take over the Governor's Mansion as the Division pakistan. This whole thing was such a stinko setup, even a cynic like me can't believe it.
What sort of "Grand Jury" was this anyway? As you say, they only had to decide, based on the evidence, whether there was material to be argued in a trial. The guy fired 12 shots at an unarmed man!!! Why was there opportunity for only one side to be heard? Of course the victim had been silenced, but it the cop was heard, then the family's lawyer should also have been heard.

But now wait for the Denial of Civil Rights trial - this may be Holder's SwanSong + masterpiece. They should have done it in the Florida case (the hoodied kid), but now they have the perfect opportunity.

OTOH, the family may get $100M, the policeman will get $5M for his Memoirs and maybe $10M for a move, the Rioters get color TVs, Methedrine-making tablets, booze, candy, etc etc, only the Indian shopkeepers lose everything.

[UlanBatori]

Look at the faces of the protestors. Those are PEACEFUL protestors, Gubnor had specified No Klingons for them.

[Surya]

Talking of Indian shopkeepers losing - old article on Asian kids been getting thrashed by thugs for years in the city of Brotherly love




http://www.philadelphiaweekly.com/news- ... =1&showAll

[Philip]

"He looked like a demon".The words that got "white" Wilson off the hook.So Blacks are "demons" and Whites "angels"! Those words convinced the jury and underscored the racial overtones that lie at the heart of the tragedyAmerica is a divided society,where even with an "Uncle Tom" negra in the White House,old habits and prejudices die hard. And of course the Yanqui cops who love overkill. America ,if I does not reflect and reform,will inevitably be heading for another civil war,this time whites against blacks and other "untermenchen",who will be well armed thanks to the NRA's asinine policies.

Rudy G was on telly,saying that more than 70% of crimes in the big apple were committed by blacks and that more black-on-black killings proliferated than killings of blacks by other racial groups.The need was for more police in troubled areas and more community policing and counselling.Ferguson is going to be a major watershed in US history,just as Montgomery was decades ago. The message from the Brown family,"no justice,no peace" is going to resonate across the US with a vengeance.

http://www.independent.co.uk/voices/com ... 83036.html
Bonnie Greer
Tuesday 25 November 2014

Ferguson: The sad truth is that Michael Brown was killed because he was a black man
If you’re a black man you can still get mowed down by an officer

Bonnie Greer

Tuesday 25 November 2014
Ferguson: The sad truth is that Michael Brown was killed because he was a black man
If you’re a black man you can still get mowed down by an officer

Forty-six years ago this past spring, I was on the edge of throwing a brick. On a warm spring evening in early April, just as I was about to go out and clandestinely meet my boyfriend, I heard over my transistor radio that Martin Luther King had been murdered in Memphis.

I can remember staring in the mirror and thinking what would become of me. How would I be able to proceed now in the country of my birth, the country my father fought for in a segregated army during World War Two, and which he was proud of, although wary.

It was then, somewhere inside I think, that I began to feel that my life – if I was going to have one at all – would have to be elsewhere. Where, I didn’t know. But not in America. Yet I didn’t resort to violence, didn’t give in to the rage and despair inside of me because my father hadn’t; my mother hadn’t. They had endured.

That was and is my template. Back in those days, watching the streets of my hometown of Chicago burn, watching streets burn all over America, watching the people my age and younger confronting the police, breaking into shops, carrying off goods as if taking the American Dream by force, I found myself understanding them. Being with them, in a way.

When you’re young you’re raging all of the time. Living in a society in which your very presence is seen as a threat and an invitation to the criminal justice system is enough to break anyone. Public Enemy’s prescient title “Fear of a Black Planet” nails America’s existential crisis with black people and black men. The explanation for this can sound like a nonsense. And in a way it is. You have to live there, be there to understand.

I don’t know Ferguson, Missouri. But I do. I imagine it to be much like the South Side of Chicago, where I grew up, once full of white people, now gone – and with them the amenities, the niceties. In their place come the “chicken shacks” and barbecue joints; McDonald’s; and expensive places to buy smartphones; the small grocery shops run by marginal people, too, but they are what Americans call “Asian” – of Chinese, Vietnamese, Korean descent.

To the Community, they became the White People.
To the Community, they became the receptacles of the rage and the despair and the angst.

All the while you live in this as Black Man. What that means, among other things is this: if you’re stopped by the police you put your hands on the top of the wheel and keep your mouth shut. It means that you can cause havoc by just walking into a shop, and maybe you act stupid because of that.

A black BBC correspondent friend of mine – a no-nonsense Northerner through and through – was once helping the movers get him and his wife into a Washington DC house while on assignment. His neighbour came over and said to his wife that she didn’t like all of “those black guys” congregating in front of her grass.

A man is wheeled on a stretcher after being shot on Chicago’s South Side, on a bloody July 4 weekend this year A man is wheeled on a stretcher after being shot on Chicago’s South Side, on a bloody July 4 weekend this year (AP)
My friend was summoned by his wife out of the group of movers and she repeated what the woman had told her. My friend asked the neighbour to get out of his house.

He never forgot it. He never felt comfortable again there.

Sure, if you have money, or are a TV personality or a big music star, America is fine. Because the real class divide in the USA is between the “have nots”, the “haves” – and the “have yachts”. If you can get into the last two categories, you can buy your own reality. Money talks and walks. But if you’re a black man, you can still get mowed down by a householder, or Officer Friendly.

And then there’s the President of the United States, Commander-in-Chief of the most powerful military on earth; the head of the number-one economy on the planet. Except from Day One he has been seen by many in the land of his birth as an alien, as something outside of the norm; as suspect; a plant; a Muslim Manchurian Candidate; someone set out to “undermine the American way of life”.

When President Obama said of young Trayvon Martin – gunned down by a man told by the police to not use deadly force – “Trayvon could’ve been my son” – all hell broke loose. You would imagine that the citizens of the Republic would have been touched by the President’s empathy. Instead, for them, this was yet one more example of “POTUS, the enemy within”.

To judge this presidency by any normal parameters is not possible because it has not been allowed to be possible, to be normal. Because Barack Obama is a black man. The same reason that Michael Brown was killed in Ferguson, Missouri. That’s the truth and I’m sorry to have to say so.[/b]

Bonnie Greer’s memoir – ‘A Parallel Life’ is published by Arcadia.

[SaiK]

feels like the same as was the case when roman empire fell!

[ramana]

feels like the same as was the case when roman empire fell!

Interesting comment for the US images itself as new Rome.

[Victor]

His store was looted again.
https://vine.co/v/O1XlODJtUrh

This is the same Patel guy who called the cops after Michael Brown stole cigars from his shop and threatened him.



Brown was a criminal and thuggish bully and seems to have been high on drugs when he got shot. Whether his killing was justifiable or not remains in the hands of lawyers. His parents may file a wrongful death case and that's it. It's as silly to expect the officer be indicted and jailed regardless of the facts as it is to say that Brown was an "innocent, unarmed black boy".

[member_22733]

He was violent and needed to be punished or "corrected". But did he deserve to die?

[member_22733]

In the land of the free: one can rape oneself

[ramana]

Victor What about trial and due process for Brown? Is the police man the judge, jury and executioner shooting 12 bullets?

[Gus]

in the hands of lawyers?

can we not have an opinion for ourselves about this issue?

it could be me tomorrow. the issue here is the spate of shootings of unarmed people who just "seemed threatening" and often there is only the cop's word for it.

shooting of teens and pre-teens for having toy guns, one guy with a cosplay sword in a store, guy walking in neighborhood shot by wannabe cop, guy shot for "loud music", retired cop shooting at a man for texting in movie.

yes, there are areas of high crime where blacks target stores owned by indians. that does not mean we should leave it to lawyers if cops shoot with impunity.

one day, one of us will wander in the wrong place and get shot at as well.

[Shreeman]

Gents:

As much as we would like to applaud the "rule of law" in the land of the free, please to be notified that the following are an anathema unless they take place in the land of the free itself:

• secret proceedings (for example north korean courts)
• XYZ without representation
• LMN without due process
• violations of constitutional rights (regardless of what constitution it is -- for example the bakistani constitution)

Also, upholders of authority are not supposed to care for their own safety first in this brave land -- quite unlike the LEOS and FDs in MO right now. There is nothing to make puns over in this situation and letting stuff burn to make a TV show does not constitute "protection" of "lives".

What has happened is just sad. There is tendency (something in the air perhaps) to so vehemently want your narrative (there is no race, and the black people are just not human) to be true, that one overlooks what is 2+2=4 obvious.

It may satisfy one (black or white) to claim that Ferguson will become quite like the suburbs of the city of brotherly love due to this violence, or blame the utter lack of regard for civic sense on one party or the other. However, in the end, with this approach you are only making new "no go areas" ala karachi.

The LA riots saw the koreans take to assault weapons to secure koreantown. Is that what we are headed for in the future -- protection by race? Does shia/sunni/kurd/pushtun/turk/armenian/azerbaijani/jew/palestinian.... ring a bell?

Scripted narratives will fool the peasants, but do not impact long term outcomes. You let one cheat succeed and cheating becomes a constitutional right. Be careful with what rules and rights no longer apply. They may not apply to you when you need them the most.

[saip]

In the land of the free: one can rape oneself

Really?

However, National Report is a fake news site known for publishing click-baiting, fabricated stories

http://www.snopes.com/media/notnews/selfrape.asp

[member_22733]

In the land of the free: one can rape oneself

Really?

However, National Report is a fake news site known for publishing click-baiting, fabricated stories

http://www.snopes.com/media/notnews/selfrape.asp

What do you think this thread is for? Its to bait you to enough to get you to think

Having said that, yes it was a mistake on my part for not fact checking

[Philip]

While we berate the cops for overkill,the sad truth is that with so much of weaponry floating around the US,for the cops,it is a matter of life or death in many cases. It would be most interesting to see stats of how many cops have been killed "in the line of duty" last year and the preceding years in the US and which states/cities are the most lethal. Being black however is the equivalent of the infamous yellow star that the Nazis forced Jews to wear. A black face is suspect. There used to be a crop of truly racist jokes floating around Blighty some time ago.One of them was,"what do you call a n*gger in a Rolls Royce?" The answer,"a thief"! The attitude hasn't changed.

'No justice, no peace': Michael Brown family denounce grand jury process
The family of Michael Brown condemns the grand jury process after a night of rioting
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldne ... ocess.html

[member_22733]

The problem is that there is a fear of the "big black guy" in the US. I lived a block away from the cripps neighbor hood in LA for a couple of years. I did get my fair share of issues, but in general people are people. I made friends with some of these "scary big black guys" (I am talking 6'6 300lb) and nothing ever happened to me.

Because of this stereotype any cop will be on the edge when dealing with the "big scary black guy". They make one wrong move and they get to meet God.

[SaiK]

remember the word - "hulk hogan"? the cop playing battlefield gaming at real lives? would he have done the same to hulk hogan? lot of words flying around in the court room, and juries get tripped by them. there is a huge bias here.

[Shreeman]

live positive neuj -- https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WsA1F9Eb6e4

[Victor]

Victor What about trial and due process for Brown? Is the police man the judge, jury and executioner shooting 12 bullets?

He was not shot for stealing cigars but for threatening the officer who feared for his life. Apparently this was the first time he fired his gun in anger with the first shot going thru the window of his own car. All 12 hits were in the front of Brown's body with one wound having traces of muzzle burn which would suggest Brown's hand was on the weapon at some point and was approaching the officer in spite of being hit several times. This was clearly panicked self defense on the part of a scared and badly trained cop.

The Justice system will not leave this alone. All witnesses will be reexamined and others brought in. The thousands of pages of testimony will be closely studied and new testimony brought in. There will be a rehashing of the case in full public view with every detail, good or bad for Brown, aired during a wrongful death case--if the Brown family has the conviction.

[saip]

Two shots were inside the car (they probably caused the powder burn) and the rest of the shots were fired at a distance and from the front of Brown.

[member_22733]

Here is another problem: its the LEO side that killed MB that is collecting evidence. Does anyone think they are going to be impartial in evidence gathering?

Other than the two autopsies, there is really no trustworthy evidence in this case.

[vishvak]

<SNIP>

Yes, but remember that most police are miltarized, i.e. they have more stuff to defend themselves than control the riots. Riot control requires a much higher deployment numbers and riot control equipment, which is much different from machines of war. The scale of the protest is rather too large for St. Louis police to do much.

Add to that the fact that they dont give a phuck about minorities killing each other.

So where does that put shopkeepers who don't tend to riot and loot others shops? Hindus in America need to put up well organized structures to avoid/tackle and help such situations. Information networks must be put up to quickly respond to situations. Don't let anti-Hindu noise come in the way.

[member_22733]

Sure. I am for defending ourselves 100%. I believe that the store owner should get justice.

All I was saying is that at the same time I understand why they did riot. It was wrong, but understandable

[Victor]

Here is another problem: its the LEO side that killed MB that is collecting evidence. Does anyone think they are going to be impartial in evidence gathering?

Other than the two autopsies, there is really no trustworthy evidence in this case.

Really, no other evidence is required to find "probable cause". Together with the witness statements, audios, videos and photos that show the position of the police car, the body and the time sequence (recorded on audio) of the shots, the autopsy will be able to tell pretty much the entire story. There were witnesses who supported the officer's story by the way and in a black neighborhood, its very unlikely that these would be anything other than black.

[member_22733]

I dont want to drag this on for more than necessary. THere is plenty of objective stuff floating around that says many different things(I have posted a few in the Understanding the US 2 thread).

I think I have been fairly clear on what my position is. I believe that the LEO side has more to lose by being truthful than does MBs side. I believe that Wilson has some issues (please look at his demon/hulk hogan part of the testimony), he has sobered up in the recent interview but that testimony is a piece of work. The prosecutor scuttled the grand jury process. If the evidence was so clear why would he have to defend this man in such a manner?

All of the above taken together tells me that there could be many other things that happened and one can never be sure, because the both the parties involved in this are not impartial. The LEO side should be impartial, but their actions clearly show that they are anything but impartial.

So yes, I find it hard to believe that they would release any incriminating evidence. If Wilson committed a homicide that day the evidence would have been scrubbed off asap. You are getting a sanitized version of the story.

I am done discussing this topic.

[Karan M]

He was violent and needed to be punished or "corrected". But did he deserve to die?

Oh come on. A guy that size threatening a police officer? What did he think the cop was? Another unarmed, peaceful Indian origin storekeeper whom he could push around with impunity? He assaulted a police officer (reports noted he took a blow or two to the face), what else would have happened?

I believe that the LEO side has more to lose by being truthful than does MBs side.

As if. Why wouldn't MB's side lie and fib with impunity as well? They have everything to gain by pushing for the pore boy angle.

What about stuff like this?
http://nypost.com/2014/07/13/cop-shot-d ... walgreens/

And this is the reaction of the "other side"
http://bigstory.ap.org/article/police-o ... ought-fame

In short, there is no reason the "he was just a poor kid" story is necessarily true.

In a country, where this also happens:
http://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-29753347

And this is the reaction of a certain group
http://nypost.com/2014/10/27/new-black- ... -attacker/

One side aren't always the pore victims.

I believe that Wilson has some issues (please look at his demon/hulk hogan part of the testimony),

Why should Wilson have issues because he spoke his mind? If the other guy is so angry he overreacts and comes across as very scary and the LEO guy states the same, whats wrong with it?

Lastly, not everyone has been as lucky as you have been in dealing with 6'6", 300 lb folks etc etc. You are letting your personal bias cloud the issue completely.

Ask around any Indian community and more often or not, many have been on the receiving end of thuggery from the Michael Brown types, as versus running afoul of the law.

The cop took two blows to the head and was well within his rights to respond with force to protect HIS life.

Just because you don't assign any value to his life does not mean that he would feel as you do.

Doesn't make the cops saints. But it does show that you have jumped to far too many conclusions far too quickly and are refusing to admit the correlation between this guys history and what happened next.

[Yayavar]

Whatever happened to shooting in the legs?! - movies make a big show of it. Tamir Rice doesnt look 290lbs to me though. At 12 yrs that would be hard.
The screeching stop and shooting from 10 ft at the 12 year old with a toy gun - I wonder if this gets outsourced to jury or the prosecutor does his job of determination culpability.

[member_22733]

Oh come on. A guy that size threatening a police officer? What did he think the cop was?

^^^ And that is what surprises me to no end (for different reasons than you guys).

Every black person I know (and I know a few of them), no matter how "ghetto" they are , have internalized one fact and they will tell you openly what it is: "A cop will not hesitate to kill a n****r, do not mess with them".

You think this guy would not have known about it? Or you think he was naive enough to attack an equally big guy who is also a cop? This is what Dorian's lawyer was telling on CNN, and I completely agree with him. I find it surprising that knowing what cops can do, no doubt seeing some of his own relatives getting screwed by cops, he would not have exercised some caution in dealing with a cop.

You can argue that he was a brute and can point to an alleged video showing someone who the cops allege is MB attacking that Indian guy. He may have assaulted the Indian guy, but he would have had a completely different demeanor when dealing with a cop as I am sure this is not the first time he has been stopped. You cannot connect the dots that are not there (which is what the cops want you to do). Hey he is a brute, he brutalized me, I had to defend myself. That story maybe true, but their subsequent action seems highly questionable.

Like I said, I did not have much of an opinion on this until I read his testimony. Then came the proprietorial vigilantism, which made it even more difficult for me to believe the LEO side.

I am not saying MB was a child who had angel wings and a ring around his head. I am saying that the truth is somewhere in the middle, we really little clue of what really happened.

[Karan M]

Shooting in the legs, shooting the tires out are only for movies. In real life, people who train 24/7 on gun ranges end up missing with shot after shot, thanks to a mixture of panic and being caught by surprise.
The Indian Army f.e. decided to do away with autofire on INSAS based on the premise that in the heat of combat, troops would end up shooting off their entire supply but mess up ammo situation.

[Yayavar]

^^I can agree to that. But am more shocked by the Tamir Rice shooting than MB. A 12 year from 10 feet?

[Karan M]

Oh come on. A guy that size threatening a police officer? What did he think the cop was?

^^^ And that is what surprises me to no end (for different reasons than you guys).

Every black person I know (and I know a few of them), no matter how "ghetto" they are , have internalized one fact and they will tell you openly what it is: "A cop will not hesitate to kill a n****r, do not mess with them".

You think this guy would not have known about it? Or you think he was naive enough to attack an equally big guy who is also a cop? This is what Dorian's lawyer was telling on CNN, and I completely agree with him. I find it surprising that knowing what cops can do, no doubt seeing some of his own relatives getting screwed by cops, he would have exercised some caution in dealing with a cop.

You can argue that he was a brute and can point to an alleged video showing someone who the cops allege is MB attacking that Indian guy. He may have assaulted the Indian guy, but he would have had a completely different demeanor when dealing with a cop as I am sure this is not the first time he has been stopped. You cannot connect the dots that are not there (which is what the cops want you to do). Hey he is a brute, he brutalized me, I had to defend myself. That story maybe true, but their subsequent action seems highly questionable.

Like I said, I did not have much of an opinion on this until I read his testimony. Then came the proprietorial vigilantism, which made it even more difficult for me to believe the LEO side.

I am not saying MB was a child who had angel wings and a ring around his head. I am saying that the truth is somewhere in the middle, we really little clue of what really happened.

I think you have let your personal bias completely cloud your perception of this one issue.

You have more or less indicted the police officer in post after post, and now say "alleged video of alleged MB attacking that Indian guy" and then come up with a theory that because "All black persons know a white cop will kill them" they will have another face to show a cop.

Up above, I have posted two recent incidents where individuals - one black, one hispanic/caucasian whatever, gleefully attacked cops. They didn't give a fig about what would happen.

How do you know MB was not one more of these types? How do you know that he was stopped before and if he had been, this very demeanour didn't allow him to get away because the cops were afraid to provoke an incident.

Lets see this clearly. He goes to a shop. Beats up the store owner. Intimidates him when that poor chap still attempts to stop him after getting a forceful shove in the chest.

Goes out. Has a confrontation with a cop. Assaults the cop. Cop shoots him.

And without any evidence to state the cop is in the wrong, you are saying "the cop is wrong" and then bringing in stuff like "he should have been corrected, not shot".

You also refused to address the query what would have happened if you were in a similar situation like the cop till it was repeated. Would you or would you not defend yourself if an angry 6 foot plus individual comes at you with a very angry demeanour??

Would you "correct him" in a hostile neighbourhood where you don't know who else might come after you?

I would surmise, you too, are a very sane individual and would protect yourself.

Just because the cop is big, you think he wont get hurt if somebody hits them? I don't want to drag this on further, but please dont go by all the movies etc where people trade punches without any effect. Unfortunately, one severe blow can take out a person and hurt them. Yes some cops may be trigger happy, high on power, and biased. But the likes of MB who use violence first, also live by a violent credo.

[member_22733]

The issue with Black society is this: They get screwed in every sphere possible. The ones that reach middle class abandon their bros in the inner cities and run away as far away as they can.

For ex: For a black guy in an inner city to start a store he would need capital. He goes to a bank, but he is dirt poor to begin with and he cannot put anything down. Even if he can put something down, he has a felony record. Even if he does not have a felony record he does not have a long enough credit history. Even if he has a good credit history the loan underwriter imposes very strict conditions on him (these are facts out there, you can find them online).

So basically most blacks have not been able to move upwards enmasse. The Hispanics are able to do that because they have a huge support base next door (Mexico). So do Indians and Chinese and Koreans.

The black folks here have no "outside" support base. They are left to rot.

What do you think this will do to them? There is a persistent hopelessness in the inner cities. They are jealous of those who have left them behind including the middle class blacks, and you cannot fault them for a large extent. Even with this much of crap thrown at them, almost 50% of blacks are middle class : http://blackdemographics.com/households/middle-class/

The anger against Indian (of any race ) for that matter is due to serious systemic problems in the society. I do not support violence, especially against Indians, but at the same time I cannot ignore the factors that led to this situation.

[nachiket]

These shootings are also a direct result of 'murica's gun culture. But nobody will say that out loud. People will scream about racism and police brutality, which are also factors but won't talk about why cops in the US always shoot first and ask questions later. It is because they are shit scared that any random traffic stop or house search will end up with a regular looking joe utilizing his second amendment rights on them. This more than anything else leads to situations like 12 year old's with BB guns and unarmed men who put their hand inside their trouser waists getting shot dead. Add the general racist perception of young Black men == potential gang member, and you have most of these victims being black. Police have been taught to have twitchy trigger fingers because of the gun threat. They are taught to keep one hand firmly on their sidearm even when approaching people they have pulled over for speeding. I don't know why people are surprised that the situation ended up where it is.

[Karan M]

LokeshC, that's their problem and they have to fix it. Yes, they got sc*rewed over. Worldwide, every group of people has had something done to them, and many of them are trying to better themselves. This constant victimhood argument in order to hurt others not even related to the original crime, is something like what our neighbor does.

Does this mean that they can now go around assaulting people left, right and center and then claim victimhood when the person defends themself?

Your post also assumes that MB was some person who would have availed of some utopian opportunities.

Hello, there are enough Indians in America, who came from really poor backgrounds back home, struggled, and managed to lead respectable lives

I am sure there are many African Americans/black persons like that too.

The likes of Michael Brown dont do them or any others credit.

You are being completely unreasonable here. You are going on on and on about "factors" but then what, pray, tell, did the Indian shopkeeper have to do with those factors to deserve that brutal shove to the chest?? What if he was a heart patient and had been injured?

So all the Indian origin people who get mugged and brutalized by thugs should then think -"ah its ok I got myself mugged, its due to the pore systemic factors which must have resulted in this pore person violentlly assaulting me".

Would you have still being going on about how the poor Michael Brown, due to systemic issues if you were there instead of the cop, and a huge guy, black, green, white, martian came at you to assault you?

I think not.

A little bit of schadenfreude at US's fault lines is given, thanks to the patronizing BS we hear from the NYT types. But the reality is also what it is. That thugs are thugs because thug culture is glorified.

PS:
From the earlier link"

http://bigstory.ap.org/article/police-o ... ought-fame

A day after a rookie police officer was gunned down in an ambush, mourners came to pay their respects at a makeshift memorial with candles, balloons, empty liquor bottles and messages of love from friends scrawled on T-shirts taped to a brick wall — to his killer.

"Rest easy," 'Thug in peace" and "See u on the other side" were among the things friends wrote to Lawrence Campbell, who police say ambushed Officer Melvin Santiago early Sunday as he responded to an armed robbery call at a 24/7 pharmacy. Other officers returned fire, killing Campbell.

Visitors to the memorial would not give their names to The Associated Press. But Barbara Jones, Campbell's neighbor, told The Jersey Journal that the Campbell she knew was nothing like the man city officials say was lying in wait for officers to arrive before opening fire.

"He was a good man. He looked out for everybody on the block," Jones told the newspaper.

Angelique Campbell, Campbell's widow, told News 12 New Jersey on Sunday that she was sorry for Santiago's family but that her husband should have killed more officers if they were planning to kill him. She later apologized for the comments.

This sort of jaahil behavior is seen amongst many groups and races worldwide, including in our very own country. No amount of copious commentary over discrimination etc justifies it IMO.

[Karan M]

These shootings are also a direct result of 'murica's gun culture. But nobody will say that out loud. People will scream about racism and police brutality, which are also factors but won't talk about why cops in the US always shoot first and ask questions later. It is because they are shit scared that any random traffic stop or house search will end up with a regular looking joe utilizing his second amendment rights on them. This more than anything else leads to situations like 12 year old's with BB guns and unarmed men who put their hand inside their trouser waists getting shot dead. Add the general racist perception of young Black men == potential gang member, and you have most of these victims being black. Police have been taught to have twitchy trigger fingers because of the gun threat. They are taught to keep one hand firmly on their sidearm even when approaching people they have pulled over for speeding. I don't know why people are surprised that the situation ended up where it is.

It is the truth. If firearms are easily available, then the LE types will be much more paranoid.
Then there are the issues of cops getting more and more militarized as well. It all feeds into each other.
I take all the US media outrage over Ferguson with a heap of salt. Our liberal media does the same when criminals get shot and what not.

[member_22733]

Let me clarify something.

If an individual starts attacking me and I do feel like my life is in danger, then I will use whatever means I can to finish off the threat. And I have no problems with a cop doing the same. But for what happens after that.

I just want the cop to be held accountable to the same extent that I would be if I were to do the same thing.

Now the above is a "clinical" situation. To understand the anger and cynicism you have to consider the larger picture of what is happening. There is a disproportionate number of black people killed by cops (and others) because of self defense or stand your ground. Usually these cases wont even go to trial, and that generates a lot of anger.

It is quite hard for me to believe that all these cases are self defense, and I think the blacks are justified in getting angry.

I am sure the cops also know this and they should have handled this situation better. After Wilson killed MB, use a third party with no bone in the game to collect evidence. File charges and THEN Use a Grand Jury outside St. Lois to decide instead of before. Have a normal Grand Jury process instead of a rigged one. And then if it goes to trial, let all the evidence be verified and corroborated independently.

You cannot just say "MB" was a brute so he must have done the same thing to the cop. That is your hypothesis.

You are believing the cop side of the story. I am believing no story as there is nothing much to go with here. The behavior of the cop and LEO and prosecutor makes me think that they are trying to protect Wilson. And I dont know why, so it makes me suspicious about the whole mess.

[member_22733]

This constant victimhood argument in order to hurt others not even related to the original crime, is something like what our neighbor does.

Does this mean that they can now go around assaulting people left, right and center and then claim victimhood when the person defends themself?

Your post also assumes that MB was some person who would have availed of some utopian opportunities.

I wish I could give you some perspective, but it appears that you have made up your mind.

Inner city blacks are all thugs, they play victimhood just because they want to get more freebies and dont want to work, they hate cops because they love breaking the laws because hey they are thugs......And because they are thugs and MB was also a thug, he would have done something thuggish with the cops and he got killed. Very simple... onleee.

I am done with this discussion. I will only say this: Before accusing me of bias, be sure that you have none. Cognitive bias is a difficult beast to understand and to see through.

[Karan M]

Let me clarify something.

If an individual starts attacking me and I do feel like my life is in danger, then I will use whatever means I can to finish off the threat. And I have no problems with a cop doing the same. But for what happens after that.

I just want the cop to be held accountable to the same extent that I would be if I were to do the same thing.

Now the above is a "clinical" situation. To understand the anger and cynicism you have to consider the larger picture of what is happening. There is a disproportionate number of black people killed by cops (and others) because of self defense or stand your ground. Usually these cases wont even go to trial, and that generates a lot of anger.

It is quite hard for me to believe that all these cases are self defense, and I think the blacks are justified in getting angry.

I am sure the cops also know this and they should have handled this situation better. After Wilson killed MB, use a third party with no bone in the game to collect evidence. File charges and THEN Use a Grand Jury outside St. Lois to decide instead of before. Have a normal Grand Jury process instead of a rigged one. And then if it goes to trial, let all the evidence be verified and corroborated independently.

You cannot just say "MB" was a brute so he must have done the same thing to the cop. That is your hypothesis.

You are believing the cop side of the story. I am believing no story as there is nothing much to go with here. The behavior of the cop and LEO and prosecutor makes me think that they are trying to protect Wilson. And I dont know why, so it makes me suspicious about the whole mess.

I am merely pointing out how your own opinions in the issue - cops, white power/dominance, black suffering has made you automatically post that MB was "alleged" to have committed that act, when substantial evidence exists to say that he did, whilst playing judge, jury and executioner with the cop, merely because he is white/establishment support etc.

What behavior of the cop and LEO and prosecutor shows they are trying to protect him, as versus your own opinion which is completely one sided on the topic? Merely stating that an angry man who looked like a demon was in your view, suspicious. You found it suspicious, that a charging 6 foot tall guy was not "corrected", and now you admit you would have done anything and everything to protect yourself if you found yourself in a similar situation.

As regards believing the cop side of the story, Brown did himself no credit by assaulting a defenceless man half his size. That speaks volumes as does the reaction of the community in Ferguson thereafter. Looting that Indian store sure "Told the Man" about their rebellion. Yeah, as they snacked on their looted stuff.

I mean seriously, so far there is no evidence to suggest that Wilson was some homicidal power monger who got off on killing Brown. He responded to a crime alert, protecting the real victim, and here you are, trying to insinuate he is the criminal & that its "a systemic issue".

So next time, a white cop, doesn't turns up to protect that Indian dude, its a big victory for justice?

We hear much the same in India day in & night out from the JNU crowd about how "some groups are disadvantaged" and hence everything they do, say, is ok. Its not right then, its not right here.

[ramana]

One thing that is agitating the observers is the many shots being fired by police. E.g. 12 shots in this case.

Maybe the police forces need to look at their weaponry to understand why so puny a weapon is issued to police that needs so many rounds fired?

[member_22733]

This was posted here before: Maybe he was also a thug

I would request people to get out of California/NewYork/Dallas big cities and visit small town America for a change. It might give you some idea on how disconnected you can get with what really goes on. It was an eyeopener to me and I have never been the same.

You cannot compare the situation here to JNU jhollawallas. Those guys are really playing victims. India has done infinitely more than the US for the people it considers less privileged. Comparing JNU Jholawalas to my stand is rather insulting I must say. But hey, whatever floats your boat.

I dont condone violence, and I would want justice if it happens to me, but that said I understand why.

A riot is the language of the unheard.

And anger, bitterness, jealousy is the language of people who have been deliberately kept suppressed to this day.