Sunni Terrorist Fragments of Unstable Pakistan - 10 Oct 2014

Vikas · Post by **Vikas** » 07 Dec 2014 16:49

Unless I see it, I think GoI has no Pak policy. Just new excuses for every new terror event.
Atleast WKK has a policy of dhimmitude and ostrich head in the sand policy.

svenkat · Post by **svenkat** » 07 Dec 2014 18:35

Pakistan Trench Along Afghan Border Enrages Kabul

the planned 485-kilometer (300-mile) trench is giving physical form to a border that locals have long seen as artificial, dividing families and crippling trade. And it is adding to simmering tensions between Afghanistan and Pakistan

But the modern Afghan government has never accepted the border, and neither have the mainly tribal communities that straddle it. They are accustomed to moving back and forth freely and in some cases own land on both sides.

The trench is being built in Pakistan's Baluchistan province, where Baluch rebels have been battling Islamabad for decades, demanding greater autonomy and a larger share of the region's oil, gas, copper and gold. It's an eye-sore of construction ? a massive furrow 10 feet (three meters) wide and 8 feet (2.4 meters) deep that already snakes 180 kilometers (110 miles) across the desert landscape.

But Kabul sees the trench as the latest move in a new incarnation of the colonial-era Great Game, in which Pakistan hopes to destabilize its neighbor to extend its regional influence. It already considers Pakistan as the source of the Taliban insurgency it has been battling with U.S. and NATO support for the past 13 years.

"The people here have never accepted the Pakistan-Afghanistan border in the first place," said Gen. Abdul Raziq, the police chief of Afghanistan's Kandahar province, which borders Baluchistan.

"Pakistan is not doing anything to stop terrorism. If they want to stop it, they should stop producing it," said Raziq, who has long had a reputation for ruthlessness in battling the Taliban. "This trench is simply to draw a border with Afghanistan and claim our land as their own," he said.

In that context, the trench is not seen by Afghans as a counterterrorism measure, but as an affront.

"This can never be acceptable for the Afghans," said former Afghan Tribal and Border Affairs Minister Akram Akhbelwak, who was removed from his post this week while President Ashraf Ghani finalizes his new Cabinet.

"The trench and the tribal border are completely illegal. Such actions on the border are creating problems among the tribes and will never be a solution to the problems between the two countries," he said.

Along the border, construction is proceeding, to the anger of local residents.

"My land is my only asset from my forefathers ? now some of it is on the other side and I'm powerless to do anything about it," said tribal elder Muhammad Ghaffar, who like many people living along the trench took the freedom of movement across the Durand Line for granted.

Raziq said that when work began, some local people made their anger clear and there was some exchange of fire across the line. "But then we got orders from Kabul not to engage with Pakistani forces, so we backed off," he said.

For polio worker Abdullah Jaanan, the implications of the barrier are potentially devastating, as Pakistan is experiencing a resurgence of the disease and his area of responsibility traverses the trench. Jaanan said that eradication of the disease, which remains endemic only in Pakistan, Afghanistan and Nigeria, is taken seriously by Afghans.

"But how can I go and visit those homes on the other side of trench?" he said.

———

kish · Post by **kish** » 07 Dec 2014 19:44

I don't know who planned this event, must be a BRF reader. Two things here

1) They have broken a paki world record
2) They have topped it up with a message of 'Polio' to rub it in

All India Radio News ‏@airnewsalerts 1h1 hour ago

#India sets a new world record for largest human flag, beating previous record held by #Pakistan.

CRamS · Post by **CRamS** » 07 Dec 2014 19:51

chetak wrote:
The general has over stepped his bounds. Such glibness is uncalled for and unbecoming, to say the least.

not explained -- How did the jehadi jokers inflict such high causalities, especially when a high alert was in place??

Spare the general guys. I am not proud of quoting Rumsfeld, but was it he who sad, "you go to war with the army you have, not the army you wish you had". That is raw truth my friend. It is deeply embarrassing that a bunch of Jihadi jokers were able inflict that kind of damage. Couple that with Paki RAPE trivializing it and showing India the middle finger, US praising TSP and adding that TSP nothing to with the terror attack against India because they halaled some Al Queda pipsqueak, and in the same breath insulting India that they want to "help" India fight terror; it was just not India's day.

No doubt there was some kind of a security lapse or its just that TSP outwitted our guys this time. My speculation is that there was some kind of insider help, local KMs for sure who did the reconnaissance, provided logistic help etc. As for taking out staging camps etc across the LoC, ModiJi and DovalJi can strategize all they want, but are our fighting guys capable of that? TSP no doubt would welcome such an escalation, but what does India gain in a bloody tit for tat killing with screams of "nuclear flash-point". Current course of no talks and ignoring TSP, some covert action once again if India has the capability, learn from the attack and make sure TSP doesn't succeed etc are India's best bet IMO.

Peregrine · Post by **Peregrine** » 07 Dec 2014 20:26

svenkat wrote:Pakistan Trench Along Afghan Border Enrages Kabul
the planned 485-kilometer (300-mile) trench is giving physical form to a border that locals have long seen as artificial, dividing families and crippling trade. And it is adding to simmering tensions between Afghanistan and Pakistan

The trench is being built in Pakistan's Baluchistan province, where Baluch rebels have been battling Islamabad for decades, demanding greater autonomy and a larger share of the region's oil, gas, copper and gold. It's an eye-sore of construction ? a massive furrow 10 feet (three meters) wide and 8 feet (2.4 meters) deep that already snakes 180 kilometers (110 miles) across the desert landscape.

The people here have never accepted the Pakistan-Afghanistan border in the first place," said Gen. Abdul Raziq, the police chief of Afghanistan's Kandahar province, which borders Baluchistan.

"Pakistan is not doing anything to stop terrorism. If they want to stop it, they should stop producing it," said Raziq, who has long had a reputation for ruthlessness in battling the Taliban. "This trench is simply to draw a border with Afghanistan and claim our land as their own," he said.

In that context, the trench is not seen by Afghans as a counterterrorism measure, but as an affront.

This gives India an EXCUSE to make a similar Trench - I appreciate it is 3,323 KM in length South Asia Terrorism Portal Annual Report 2007-2008 : Chapter III - and there is nothing that the Government of The Land of the Pure and Home of the Terrorists can do!

Does the Indian Government have the nous to build such a TRENCH?

Cheers

shiv · Post by **shiv** » 07 Dec 2014 20:48

Peregrine wrote: Does the Indian Government have the nous to build such a TRENCH?

A trench will only stop polio workers from crossing. But it will assist the Paki army to move up and down the border unseen. It is not a defensive measure. It is an offensive one.

chetak · Post by **chetak** » 07 Dec 2014 21:03

^^^^^^

@CRamS

This is happening once too often.

We are getting picked off, high value target by high value target, every time, over and over again and no pattern emerges??.

This suggests that the enemy is always watching and waiting. They have a library of such targets, picked out in advance, regularly under surveillance, updated and with weaknesses pinpointed and entry strategy in place and ready to be changed dynamically as the tactical situation changes. No one can convince me that the jehadi jokers came un prepared, avoided contact with the IA by "chance", blundered into a highly fortified encampment and blasted their way in.

They had a premeditated plan, were updated as to the tactical situation on a real time basis, guided in by locals (as yet unidentified, as usual) and they caught our guys in the open as they well knew they would, right down to the time. It seems possible that we may not have captured all their communication devices and other sophisticated satellite phones or frequency hopping encrypted stuff may have been buried locally or spirited away by their local contacts for use another day. The clearly traceable GPS paths recovered from the GPS devices used by them and captured by us seem to have been done deliberately to further provoke.

We should be doing aggressive security audits against our own assets all the time and updating regularly. Entirely random perimeter patrol patterns, second line defenses, actively in place and watching with night vision equipment and using electronic measures to spot movement may already be in place but we need to take this seriously and implement ruthlessly. Most of our assets are next to roads used by the locals and are visible to an "innocent" drive by surveillance, it just needs a video camera to record security details for analysis.

We should have video recordings of all who approach any military installation at any time and use facial recognition software to see if any pattern emerges over time.

Even the amrekis are subject to the same tactics by the pakis. Only the israelis seem to have had some modicum of success against such tactics because they have studied and continue to study the arab tactics. The jehadis cross pollinate with foreign jehadis, learn new methods and tactics tried successfully tried elsewhere and adapt the same locally.

Our military attaches in our embassies should be tasked to compile a local jehadi "best practices" data base and the same should be analyzed by the IA and BSF to see how others have tackled similar situations and the counter measures that have been developed to defeat such tactics.

The jehadis have always watched their enemies very carefully, sometimes for months and even years before they move in an take them out. We tend to foolishly trust and relax and finally go home in body bags.

arun · Post by **arun** » 07 Dec 2014 21:07

X Posted from the “Pakistani Role In Global Terrorism” thread.

Kaafirs seem to be perfecting the art of Taqiyyah so much so that Momins originating in the Land of the Pure are being taken in.

Mother of Mohammadden Terrorist who traces his origin to the Islamic Republic of Pakistan and who wandered off to Syria to do a spot of Mohammadden Terrorist Tourism or in his words “best deed in Allahs eyes”, complains that she shopped her son only because she believed that the UK Police’s Taqiyyah that the son would get a 2 year rather than 12 year sentence he was given:

Police betrayed me, says mother of British jihadist jailed for 12 years after she turned him in

-Mother of British jihadist Yusuf Sarwar says she was betrayed by the police
-Majida Sarwar, from Birmingham, tipped off police when son went to Syria
-22-year-old travelled to war zone with friend Mohammed Nahin Ahmed
- They were arrested eight months later at Heathrow and jailed for 12 years
-A judge praised mother's 'bravery' for telling officers son went 'to do jihad'
-But Ms Sarwar says she was told he could expect a far shorter sentence
-She says other mothers of jihadists will be put off coming forward in future

By Martin Robinson and Ollie Gillman for Mail Online

Published: 09:31 GMT, 7 December 2014 | Updated: 15:25 GMT, 7 December 2014

The mother of a British jihadist who was jailed for 12 years for going to Syria to join a group linked to Al-Qaeda says she was betrayed by the police and courts over her son's long prison sentence.

Yusuf Sarwar, a student from Birmingham, left a note telling his mother he had gone to Syria fight against 'Allah's enemies' in May last year.

His mother Majida Sarwar showed the note to the police, and her son, who travelled to the war zone to join Islamic extremists with former postal worker Mohammed Ahmed, was arrested on his return this January.

At her son's court case, a judge praised 'brave' Ms Sarwar for telling the authorities about his plans, but now she says she was betrayed by the legal system.

Speaking to the Observer, Ms Sarwar said: 'This is not justice. They said I was doing the right thing, that when my son came back they would try to help, but this terrible sentence – all they have done was to set me against my son.

'The police say "mothers come forward", you can trust us, we will help. But now they will see what happened to my son. What kind of person would go to the police if they think their son will get 12 years in prison? Nobody wants to do that. I did not want that.

'My husband just sits silently most of the time, crying a lot.'

The family were told that the 22-year-old, whose grandfather served with the British Army, might expect a two-year sentence, they said. ………………………….

Ahmed, who was born in Bangladesh, moved to Britain as a child, while Sarwar, who is of Pakistani descent, was born in Britain. ………………………

Read It All:

Police betrayed me, says mother of British jihadist jailed for 12 years after she turned him in

Ambar · Post by **Ambar** » 07 Dec 2014 21:11

Counter-insurgency works only when you have an overwhelming superiority over your enemies or if you have support of the locals. In the absence of these 2 factors it is like chasing hares with a sprained ankle. What IA and GoI can do is minimize the casualties by changing the rules of engagement, better intelligence and safer logistics. Go after the terror sympathizers inside India ruthlessly, start involving air power while dealing with militants without worrying about collateral damage and employ more secure methods while transporting troops.

'71 was a great opportunity to create a 50 mile buffer zone which could have curbed insurgency instead Indira capitulated in Shimla and threw it all away. All we can hope for is for Pakistan to disintegrate from within and thats it.

vishvak · Post by **vishvak** » 07 Dec 2014 21:15

shiv wrote:
Peregrine wrote: Does the Indian Government have the nous to build such a TRENCH?
A trench will only stop polio workers from crossing. But it will assist the Paki army to move up and down the border unseen. It is not a defensive measure. It is an offensive one.

Not if trenches are dug in such a way that so that rabid dogs infiltrators are always visible. Example V tilted to the right, or inverse steps such that IA is at higher position on our side.

member_22733 · Post by **member_22733** » 07 Dec 2014 21:18

Build a wall with automatic weapons to eliminate anyone who tries to cross in.

CRamS · Post by **CRamS** » 07 Dec 2014 21:37

Ambar wrote:Counter-insurgency works only when you have an overwhelming superiority over your enemies or if you have support of the locals. In the absence of these 2 factors it is like chasing hares with a sprained ankle. What IA and GoI can do is minimize the casualties by changing the rules of engagement, better intelligence and safer logistics. Go after the terror sympathizers inside India ruthlessly, start involving air power while dealing with militants without worrying about collateral damage and employ more secure methods while transporting troops.

'71 was a great opportunity to create a 50 mile buffer zone which could have curbed insurgency instead Indira capitulated in Shimla and threw it all away. All we can hope for is for Pakistan to disintegrate from within and thats it.

Good point, but as ChetakJi mentioned, these high-octane attacks against our army are happening way too often. You can imagine the level of motivation now among all cadres in TSP, from pigLeT soosai killers, the Hafee pig types, to ISI, to TSPA, and above all to the so called "moderate" RAPEs.

I would not ask our Indian army leadership to go and attack TSP, as that would not be feasible. But I don't think its asking too much at all from such a massive army that our defenses must be fortified and deny TSP these short tactical victories. Because as I said that only fuels a 1000 more soosai pigs to undertake the next round.

Lets not overlook one reality. TSP has no b@lls to make a frontal attack to capture the valley, they will be annihilated. Their strategy is inflicting these 1000s cuts on our guys in the hope forcing India to the negotiating table to talk about giving up the valley. I can't imagine that whatever be our limitations, Indian army cannot thwart this strategy of TSP.

ramana · Post by **ramana** » 07 Dec 2014 21:39

Some recent facts in TSP
1) TSP Good Badmash civilian govt is under state of threat from Dimran and TUQ backed by TSPA and West.
2) This threat was nullified by wily Badmash
3) Raheel Sharief (Bad Badmash) the TSPA chief is one of the weakest Army chiefs. Cant even stage an effective anti gov demonstration.
4)All bad TSP state non-actors (SNA) go to US to get inspiration and courage.
5) Last weeks attacks and JUD speech are orchestrated to provoke India.
6)Equipment for terrorists is not obtained without wink and nods from 3.5 fathers.
When a weak guy challenges an obviously strong person there is something behind the chakravyuh. Eg Saindhava in Mahabharat.

Let NaMo have his space and not self flagellate.

Ignore sold out anti-national Indian media. They are doing Paks work for them to make pin pricks look like massive bleeding.

Dipanker · Post by **Dipanker** » 07 Dec 2014 21:41

CRamS wrote:
Spare the general guys. I am not proud of quoting Rumsfeld, but was it he who sad, "you go to war with the army you have, not the army you wish you had". That is raw truth my friend. It is deeply embarrassing that a bunch of Jihadi jokers were able inflict that kind of damage. Couple that with Paki RAPE trivializing it and showing India the middle finger, US praising TSP and adding that TSP nothing to with the terror attack against India because they halaled some Al Queda pipsqueak, and in the same breath insulting India that they want to "help" India fight terror; it was just not India's day.

No doubt there was some kind of a security lapse or its just that TSP outwitted our guys this time. My speculation is that there was some kind of insider help, local KMs for sure who did the reconnaissance, provided logistic help etc. As for taking out staging camps etc across the LoC, ModiJi and DovalJi can strategize all they want, but are our fighting guys capable of that? TSP no doubt would welcome such an escalation, but what does India gain in a bloody tit for tat killing with screams of "nuclear flash-point". Current course of no talks and ignoring TSP, some covert action once again if India has the capability, learn from the attack and make sure TSP doesn't succeed etc are India's best bet IMO.

You are falling for the Paki press spin on the state dept. briefing, what Marie Harf said was that she would not assume anything or jump to any conclusion. That does not tantamount to giving a clean chit to Pakistan. In any case it would not matter to us anyway.

About security lapse, I am not so sure, given that the bulk of Indian casualty happened outside the camp, particularly in the vehicle thar runshed in from another camp to help and was shot at. Of those killed 3 were policemen who too rushed in and got shot at. they had no chance since these terrorists were very well trained.

Now as far as some KM's help to terrorists, you don't need to speculate on that, we know that already.

Otherwise I have to say our guys did a very good job of neutralizing the terrorists in a quick time. Given the amount of ammunition the terrorists were carrying, this could have been much much worse, but all 6 terrorists were dispatched to jahhanum quickly. Two more were sent to meet their 72 in Srinagar and without any casualty in our side. All in all 8 Paki pigs killed, not bad at all.

I am hoping that Modi/GOI will persure the policy of raising the cost to Pakis, because this is a game Paki will lose in long term. Already the approach seems to have paid divident in terms of cross border firing from Pak, which has relatively fallen silent after the pasting they got in October. Expecting more actio post j&k poll.

ramana · Post by **ramana** » 07 Dec 2014 21:50

Dipankar, Good summary. Thanks for keeping cool and look at things objectively.

Also to add to your post, TSP has realized cross border firing leads to disproportionate response which hurts them. Hence the terrorist attacks.

BTW who was that person on RNDTV who spoke irresponsibly? Not the retired Lt Gen Hoon?

Brad Goodman · Post by **Brad Goodman** » 07 Dec 2014 22:32

When the Army feels that paki terrorists were like special forces. A part of me thinks it is not easy to train these in quick time. It takes years to identify the right population and then to train them. It involves time, money and resources. ISI and LeT will not do it since they did not really add too much bang for buck since they were neutralized quickly. I feel they must be regular TSPA commandos bearded variety who were itching to get their 72 and ISI realized that holding them back means they will blow themselves in FATA and KP where are in controlled manner they could be sent into J&K with same promises of jannat and discarding the toxic assets with minimal loss

http://www.sify.com/news/terrorists-in- ... caeaf.html

chetak · Post by **chetak** » 07 Dec 2014 22:48

I would tend to agree with the young officers

Young officers blame commanders for Uri debacle on social media

By Ajai Shukla
Business Standard, 7th Dec 2014

A day after eight army soldiers, including an officer, died in a militant strike on a military camp near Uri, in Jammu & Kashmir, anger is bubbling amongst junior officers who say over-cautious commanders have tied their hands.

In a WhatsApp message that is racing through army networks, the Uri debacle has been blamed on tight operational restrictions allegedly imposed after two Kashmiri boys were mistakenly shot dead on November 3 by soldiers manning a check point near Chattergam village, in Anantnag district of south Kashmir.

Then, in a swift attempt to quell public outrage, the army had ordered an inquiry that found nine soldiers of 53 Rashtriya Rifles culpable. Northern army commander, Lieutenant General DS Hooda, publicly admitted the army had made a mistake.

Days later, on November 13, an army court martial sentenced five soldiers, including two officers, to life imprisonment for killing three innocent Kashmiris in a fake encounter in the Macchil sector of north Kashmir in 2010.

In the bitter WhatsApp message, an unidentified officer has directly held his top commanders responsible for the Uri debacle.

“As per reports, soldiers on the sentry duty on the army camp [at Uri], did not fire upon the approaching terrorist vehicle due to caution imposed on them after the Anantnag incident (sic)”, says the WhatsApp message.

The message goes on: “When [the] Anantnag incident took place last month, corps commander of 15 corps and Army Commander of Northern Command had both called it a mistake… Should not the Army Cdr (commander) and Corps cdr (commander) consider resigning for this goof up (sic).”

"Now, what do they have to say? They had betrayed their own soldiers, who became cautious and the result is for everyone to see.”

Highlighting a worrying faultline, the message demands (capitals in original): “GENERALS SHOULD STOP PLAYING TO [THE] GALLERY AND MIND THEIR OWN BUSINESS AND ALLOW SOLDIERS TO DO THEIR JOB.”

Such bitterness is growing in combat unit and sub-unit commanders, who are caught between senior officers’ demands to “deliver results”, i.e. to kill militants; while at the same time uphold the human rights of locals, most of whom sympathise with militants, if not actively support them.

The army is scrambling to counter this unprecedented “social media” crisis. While nobody is speaking on the record, Business Standard learns the army is responding on social media, putting out a detailed account of the Uri incident. The aim is to prove that the militants benefited from laxity rather than from imposed restraints.

Says Lieutenant General Syed Ata Hasnain, a highly regarded former corps commander in Srinagar: “It is unfair to blame top commanders for demanding restraint. Every officers knows exactly what restraint implies; and it does not restrict legitimate use of force against militants.”

Neither do accounts of the Uri strike support the view that soldiers’ were operationally restrained. The attack began at 3 a.m., a time when civilian movement is totally banned and every stranger is considered suspicious.

Senior commanders in Kashmir have stoutly resisted pleas to lift the Disturbed Areas notification from large parts of J&K, which means the Armed Forces Special Powers Act, 1990 (AFSPA) would no longer apply in those areas. Even so, the army hierarchy is increasingly intolerant of human rights violations.

The WhatsApp message bitterly states: “We ought to accept such mistakes when we deploy the army for restoration of the situation. Everyone must understand the real purpose of AFSPA. It is meant to cover unintentional mistakes made by soldiers in the course of the performance of their duty.”

The WhatsApp message strongly reflects the soldiers’ viewpoint that they are doing a thankless job for seniors, leaders and a public that neither understands nor sympathises with the army.

The officer writes: “Why does not this nation and its leaders understand the nuances of this ‘Designer war’ heaped upon India by Pakistan since 1989? Unfortunately, even most military minds, both serving and retired, have failed to understand the reality of this war. It has nothing to do with 'Law and Order'; it is war, Sir! Most important, it is for Generals to understand and grasp its characteristics and stop reacting to civilian hue and cry (sic).”

Anujan · Post by **Anujan** » 07 Dec 2014 23:05

arun wrote: Mother of Mohammadden Terrorist who traces his origin to the Islamic Republic of Pakistan and who wandered off to Syria to do a spot of Mohammadden Terrorist Tourism or in his words “best deed in Allahs eyes”, complains that she shopped her son only because she believed that the UK Police’s Taqiyyah that the son would get a 2 year rather than 12 year sentence he was given:

Police betrayed me, says mother of British jihadist jailed for 12 years after she turned him in

Police betrayed me, says mother of British jihadist jailed for 12 years after she turned him in

The article is quite funny. The mother of the Muj turned him in expecting him to get a light sentence, but the Muj got 12 years instead. So the mother is threatening that other mothers of mujs might not turn them in. This is the terrorist mother version of Pakistan's "Give us Baksheesh or else every one of us will become jihadis and kill you all"

On top of that the handwritten note by the Muj is hilarious. British education system hasnt taught him proper grammar or spelling.

I have an idea: Britain should set some land apart, fence it and let Mujs play Jihad-Jihad inside that land. That way, the Brits can keep an eye on whats happening among the pious in their population and the Mujs can also scratch their Jihad itch in a safe manner without having to travel thousands of miles. Also silences people like Anjeem choudhry who wants to be ruled by Shariah alone. They can declare sharia in all of the fenced land. "But how will people get food/water and what of the economy" you ask? Quite simple. Like other Jihad obsessed lands, they can live off of handouts from Britain and the west

A_Gupta · Post by **A_Gupta** » 07 Dec 2014 23:16

“Why does not this nation and its leaders understand the nuances of this ‘Designer war’ heaped upon India by Pakistan since 1989? Unfortunately, even most military minds, both serving and retired, have failed to understand the reality of this war. It has nothing to do with 'Law and Order'; it is war, Sir!"

There are two things - that it is a war; and how the war is waged. How the war is waged - there can be a lot of debate. But that it is a war cannot be debated, and all the WKKs and Track II morons and such need to be treated as those who treat with the enemy in a time of war.

Anujan · Post by **Anujan** » 07 Dec 2014 23:19

Brad Goodman wrote:When the Army feels that paki terrorists were like special forces. A part of me thinks it is not easy to train these in quick time. It takes years to identify the right population and then to train them. It involves time, money and resources. ISI and LeT will not do it since they did not really add too much bang for buck since they were neutralized quickly. I feel they must be regular TSPA commandos bearded variety who were itching to get their 72 and ISI realized that holding them back means they will blow themselves in FATA and KP where are in controlled manner they could be sent into J&K with same promises of jannat and discarding the toxic assets with minimal loss

http://www.sify.com/news/terrorists-in- ... caeaf.html

Actually this might not be true. Listen to the interview of Arif Jamal at Hudson institute. Fella wrote a book "Transnational Jihad" about LeT. Apparently LeT has a 21 day "basic course" (not much military training. Maybe taught to yell "AoA!! Jeeeee haaaaaarrrrdddd" and taught which end of the gun bullets come out of. Think of it as a Jihadi NCC camp). And hundreds sign up per week. Mostly because of free food, water, a sense of camaraderie and adventure. Think of why you'd sign up for scouts, NCC or the local adventure club. Arif Jamal attended a few camps and calls most of this group as dumb, idiotic, lazy and pretty much useless bums.

Entire talk is a must watch but Listen at 25 minutes and 39 minutes to know the scale.

He also says that of these hundreds, four or five as supremely talented. Who are then offered money and advanced training. Out of those a few are selected and trained by LeT and ISI. Listen to his interview, it is quite enlightening. This also agrees with what Kasab said and what Headley said.

If you can identify 4 truly outstanding Jihadis per week, in a year you'd have 200. That 200 will be special forces caliber especially if you train them well. You can think of LeT as a massive talent spotting exercise. So dont underestimate their fighters. The best way for India to defend herself is to not fight these fellows who cross over, we'd be fighting them for eternity. The best way is to shut down the infrastructure that produces them.

LeT hasnt held a rally in Lahore in 12 years. The last one was in 2002. They stopped after 9/11 and when Mush was in power as it wasnt clear at that time that US accepted the good terrorist/bad terrorist argument. Now that badmash is back in power, LeT holds a massive rally in Pakjab, which is ruled by his brother. This cannot be a coincidence. As far as security for India is concerned, it is clear that India is more secure and Pakistan is more manageable when Army is in rule in Pakistan. Dont fall for "India should support democracy" and "Strong and stable Pakistan" nonsense that is touted frequently. Whenever civilians rule Pakistan, and whenever people try to hold them accountable for security, they just plead helplessness that it is the army's domain. Army pleads helplessness that it is the civilians' domain. We need military dictatorship in Pakistan who are accountable. I just wish that the bad sharif had the balls to overthrow good sharif and take over.

member_28233 · Post by **member_28233** » 07 Dec 2014 23:40

shiv wrote:
chetak wrote:

No b@st@rd ever won a war by dying for his country. He won it by making the other poor dumb b@st@rd die for his country.

George S. Patton
Patton did not actually say that. Except in the movie

He is attributed to have said something very close. As per Wiki:

.....
One notable difference occurred in the speech he delivered on 31 May 1944, while addressing the U.S. 6th Armored Division, when he began with a remark that would later be among his most famous:[22]

"No ******** ever won a war by dying for his country. You won it by making the other poor dumb ******** die for his country.[22]"

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/George_S._Patton' ... Third_Army

abhik · Post by **abhik** » 07 Dec 2014 23:46

'Daura-e-Aam' and 'Daura-e-Khas' trainings as per Ajmal Kasab's story(he was of course one of the special ones).

ramana · Post by **ramana** » 08 Dec 2014 00:31

The timing of the attack is related to Putin's visit on Dec 10th.

Its East Europe redux.
A warning to India that the dogs will be unleashed.

CRamS · Post by **CRamS** » 08 Dec 2014 00:31

Brad GoodmanJi, among those military officials, both current and retired, there seems to be conflicting opinions on whether the pigLeTs were already in the valley for a while or they infiltrated recently. I tend to concur that they were in the valley for a while living under the kind hospitality of the Harried type rats. Because this kind of an operation, including the coordinated attacks, takes a lot of time to plan and execute.

So those asking for lifting AFSPA have a bloody egg on their face. Unless some miracle happens, I don't think even if the next set of rounds have high voter turnout, KM opinion, especially that of the vocal ro-Paki secessionist scum will shift overwhelmingly in favor of India. Plus the PDP traitors coming to power is no comfort to me. To this end, I say Indian army should ruthlessly go door to door, shoot at sight if necessary, use helicopter gun ships US-style (including torture if necessary) but flush out the pigs suspected of harboring and aiding Paki pigLeTs. India is not going to gain their sympathy either way any time soon. It will take a long time to rid such scum of pro-Paki secessionist poison.

member_22733 · Post by **member_22733** » 08 Dec 2014 00:35

The dates on the MRE is June 2014. Assuming the piglets crossed with the MRE, one can say they were here after that date.

THe GPS units might also have clues. Obviously such clues are a message to India that we are at war, we dont care about hiding that anymore.

CRamS · Post by **CRamS** » 08 Dec 2014 01:08

Dipanker wrote: You are falling for the Paki press spin on the state dept. briefing, what Marie Harf said was that she would not assume anything or jump to any conclusion. That does not tantamount to giving a clean chit to Pakistan. In any case it would not matter to us anyway.

DipankarJi, with all due respect, I will take mouthpiece Marie Harf more seriously if she were to narrate the novel BJ techniques she uses to keep her current boyfriend (or girlfriend) happy than dole out this ambiguous crap to give TSP a fig leaf. Did Adm. Mullen also "jump to conclusions" when after a similar Haqqani attack on US troops, he pointed to TSP hand and said Haqqani's are a veritable arm of the ISI? This evidence crap that US, like TSP demand gets my goat. Both know they are play acting.

Vayutuvan · Post by **Vayutuvan** » 08 Dec 2014 01:20

LokeshC wrote:Build a wall with automatic weapons to eliminate anyone who tries to cross in.

LokeshC: They need not even be completely autonomous. Remote controlled heavy machine guns would probably do. It would take too much time to produce reliable autonomous weapons a la as in both of our favorite show (Star Trek).

member_22733 · Post by **member_22733** » 08 Dec 2014 01:27

That would work as well. A wall is better than a trench, as in you have to climb on top of it to cross it, or break through it. Both of which can be easily detected and can be spoiled. Trench makes it a little hard. Tunneling is the only risk, but I believe there is some work going on to detect that in both India and Israel.

Vayutuvan · Post by **Vayutuvan** » 08 Dec 2014 03:05

Vibration detection sensor network should do the job. Not sure the cost but some sort of a hall effect device (or even a resistive network embedded in the wall) should do the trick. Requires big data analytics and statistical hypothesis testign software but that I presume India has expertise in abundanc.

member_23365 · Post by **member_23365** » 08 Dec 2014 03:39

ramana wrote:The timing of the attack is related to Putin's visit on Dec 10th.

Its East Europe redux.
A warning to India that the dogs will be unleashed.

If it is so, best time for overt retaliation would be when Om Baba is in capital.

Anujan · Post by **Anujan** » 08 Dec 2014 05:18

http://admin.samaa.tv/pakistan/08-Dec-2 ... -in-london

Pakistan Tehreek-e-Insaf (PTI) supporters allegedly tried to attack Jamiat Ulema-e-Islam-Fazl (JUI-F) leader Maulana Fazl-ur-Rehman after clashing with his followers here on Monday, Samaa reported.

Reportedly, the JUI-F leader, who is visiting London these days, escaped an attempted attack outside Abu Bakr Mosque, located in Southall

Apparently Imran Khan's Youthias attacked Maulana Diesel in London of all places! Jo lahore mein gandu woh london mein bhi gandu. Also kudos to Pakis in trying to make a karachi out of london. Also a word of encouragement to Brits: Please allow many more Cashmere conferences by Pakis so they can take over your cities and settle personal scores in Londonistan.

partha · Post by **partha** » 08 Dec 2014 05:25

^
It seems pop singer turned jihadi turned blasphemer Junaid Jamshed has moved to Londonistan and has no immediate plan of coming back to Pakistan. Yay, London, way to go!

Kashi · Post by **Kashi** » 08 Dec 2014 06:41

Dipanker wrote:About security lapse, I am not so sure, given that the bulk of Indian casualty happened outside the camp, particularly in the vehicle thar runshed in from another camp to help and was shot at. Of those killed 3 were policemen who too rushed in and got shot at. they had no chance since these terrorists were very well trained.

Otherwise I have to say our guys did a very good job of neutralizing the terrorists in a quick time. Given the amount of ammunition the terrorists were carrying, this could have been much much worse, but all 6 terrorists were dispatched to jahhanum quickly. Two more were sent to meet their 72 in Srinagar and without any casualty in our side. All in all 8 Paki pigs killed, not bad at all.

Actually if you include 6 others who were dispatched on the LoC the previous day with no casualties on our side, the number of pigs haramed (no halal for them) goes upto 14.

Of course, there were security and operational lapses, which we must learn from. especially the loss of 8 of not to direct enemy fire but to other incidents is highly disheartening.

That said, the Pakis are only going to up the ante from now on.

Dipanker · Post by **Dipanker** » 08 Dec 2014 06:46

CRamS wrote:
Dipanker wrote: You are falling for the Paki press spin on the state dept. briefing, what Marie Harf said was that she would not assume anything or jump to any conclusion. That does not tantamount to giving a clean chit to Pakistan. In any case it would not matter to us anyway.
DipankarJi, with all due respect, I will take mouthpiece Marie Harf more seriously if she were to narrate the novel BJ techniques she uses to keep her current boyfriend (or girlfriend) happy than dole out this ambiguous crap to give TSP a fig leaf. Did Adm. Mullen also "jump to conclusions" when after a similar Haqqani attack on US troops, he pointed to TSP hand and said Haqqani's are a veritable arm of the ISI? This evidence crap that US, like TSP demand gets my goat. Both know they are play acting.

You are unnecessarily getting worked up, notice that I have already said that what Mary Harf says should not matter to us anyway. Don't let them get your goat so easily!

shiv · Post by **shiv** » 08 Dec 2014 07:24

vishvak wrote: Not if trenches are dug in such a way that so that rabid dogs infiltrators are always visible. Example V tilted to the right, or inverse steps such that IA is at higher position on our side.

That is a ditch-cum-bund - used as an anti-tank defence, not a trench, technically. These exist on both sides along the Punjab border.

SSridhar · Post by **SSridhar** » 08 Dec 2014 07:41

CRamS wrote: . . . dole out this ambiguous crap to give TSP a fig leaf. . . Both know they are play acting.

CRS, I completely agree with you. While I concur that we need not and should not look to a US condemnation or opinion etc on events affecting India, this so-called condemnation is indefensible because it is no condemnation at all, it is non-specific and ambiguous as you said. 21 lives were lost in multiple terror attacks due to a brazen attempt by Pakistan's UN-sanctioned and US-bounty carrying terrorist to sabotage democracy and what was this Harf woman talking about? We know the nexus and compulsions for the US to act in the way it has been acting for decades against India and in collusion with the Pakis, but to say that the U.S. 'Condemned' the attack is way too much of a stretch.

shiv · Post by **shiv** » 08 Dec 2014 07:42

ramana wrote:The timing of the attack is related to Putin's visit on Dec 10th.

Its East Europe redux.
A warning to India that the dogs will be unleashed.

Ramana, these were well trained commando style jihadis equipped with state of the art stuff. I suspect it is the elections.

My gut feeling is that if such a group of men could have caused massive civilian casualties a la Mumbai - there would have been a reactive army clampdown and elections would have been postponed. That would have been the best outcome for Pakis. The general was perfectly correct in saying that the army men died so civilians could live. What is missing from this isolated statement is that these 4-5 kamandu-jihadis were surely not the only ones sent to cause the disruption. Note that 3 -4 jihadis were killed a few days earlier and 2-3 more a few days before that. In an ideal situation 20-25 jihadis could have postponed the elections by massacring 200 people in 2-3 population centers

In fact what has happened now, aside from the tragic loss of army lives, is that the elections are on and the stupid argument to remove AFSPA takes a body-blow as more Indians realize that the Army are doing a real and necessary job in Kashmir.

Gagan · Post by **Gagan** » 08 Dec 2014 07:55

Some Paki Fun:

Gagan · Post by **Gagan** » 08 Dec 2014 07:57

Djinna was neither Shia nor Sunni, but Muslim !
AoA

Pakistanis displaying their Pakistaniyat even back in 1955

SSridhar · Post by **SSridhar** » 08 Dec 2014 08:05

The terrorist attack is certainly and only related to the on-going elections in J&K. There can be no doubt about this. No force on earth can influence Pakistan when it comes to J&K.

However, the lacklustre condemnation from the US, is linked to Putin's visit. Clearly, the US is unhappy with India and is showing it up this way. The US which pokes its nose even on minor incidents would not have been so lukewarm otherwise when multiple major incidents threaten an otherwise peaceful and largely attended poll, a historic fact.