Sunni Terrorist Fragments of Unstable Pakistan - 12 Dec 2014

kish · Post by **kish** » 13 Jan 2015 23:27

Anujan wrote:Placards supporting the french terrorists. No awards for guessing where.

Spelling of 'martyrdom' is a sure giveaway

, Where-else ~~god foresaken~~ Arrah pasand Bakistan

Vikas · Post by **Vikas** » 14 Jan 2015 00:03

SBajwa wrote:Tuvaluan!
Once again!!! We lost a god send opportunity to join the NATO in Afghanistan and circle the Bakis to finish them. Now they are back and will try to do it again!! The same old policy of Prithviraj Chauhan (and people before him) to not follow and finish the offender rather wait and watch!! Eventually if not destroyed Bakis will enslave us! So the best thing is to grab the tactical opportunities and at least move an inch towards a bakiless future? I guess you guys and long GOI also believe that a strong and prosperous bakistan is in India's interest!

Indian polity is mortally scared of sending army across the borders. Heck we are unable to send army across "WB" despite grave terror attacks what to talk of sending them to another country.
If IPKF was a mistake, it doesn't mean that we need to fight every battle in Panipat. Few battles, we will have to fight in Bukhara or forsaken land of Barbaria or maybe cold farms of Romania to neutralize threats against India.
No nation ever became strong and powerful by sitting at home and hoping for world to turn peacenik.

KLNMurthy · Post by **KLNMurthy** » 14 Jan 2015 00:17

SBajwa wrote:Tuvaluan!
Once again!!! We lost a god send opportunity to join the NATO in Afghanistan and circle the Bakis to finish them. Now they are back and will try to do it again!! The same old policy of Prithviraj Chauhan (and people before him) to not follow and finish the offender rather wait and watch!! Eventually if not destroyed Bakis will enslave us! So the best thing is to grab the tactical opportunities and at least move an inch towards a bakiless future? I guess you guys and long GOI also believe that a strong and prosperous bakistan is in India's interest!

Indian army will only work under Indian command. Only exception is the UN. This is a strategic and tactical choice.

The Bush proposal required IA to work under NATO ir US command. Non-starter, all political considerations aside.

KLNMurthy · Post by **KLNMurthy** » 14 Jan 2015 00:23

SBajwa wrote:Let's wish that it is soon that Bakis lose their writ over entire territory but their bases and hope that they do not start distributing their nukes to their "good" talibs.

Paki nuclear threat doesn't change whether TSPA or good talibs control the nukes.

Prem · Post by **Prem** » 14 Jan 2015 00:27

SBajwa wrote:Since 1947.

We lost opportunity in 1948 in Kashmir. (less than 10,000 dead to achieve the strategic goal of Baki destruction)We lost opportunity in 1965 in Sialkote/Lahore. (less than 50,000 dead to achieve the strategic goal of Baki destruction)Wso!! All I see is lost opportunities and excuses our people have been using since the times of Mahabharata!

Paki are not aware that what Americano could not promise , Afghans have pledged to do so i.e t meet IA halfway across Pakjab. This is why GOI have allocated 20 Billion over next 10 years to be spend on the welfare of Afghan people looking for opportunity to meet and greet Pakianos.

SBajwa · Post by **SBajwa** » 14 Jan 2015 00:29

Indian Government had a chance to neutralize their nukes! We will get many more chances in future! All that is needed is a will to do.

Prem · Post by **Prem** » 14 Jan 2015 01:16

Prevail upon India to work with Pakistan, Sartaj tells Kerry
SiirKhaaj Still In Search of Sir Baap

ISLAMABAD: Sartaj Aziz on Tuesday said that the United States being an influential member of the international community could prevail upon India to work with Pakistan towards regional peace and economic prosperity.Aziz, Adviser to Prime Minister Nawaz Sharif on National Security and Foreign Affairs, was addressing a press conference with US Secretary of State John Kerry in Islamabad.“The cancellation of foreign secretary level talks by India, followed by the recent incidents of unprovoked and indiscriminate firing on the Line of Control (LoC) and Working Boundary are a source of serious concern to Pakistan,” Aziz said.“We hope, therefore, that US as an influential member of the international community can prevail upon India to work with Pakistan towards regional peace and economic prosperity.”Secretary Kerry said that Prime Minister Nawaz deserved a lot of credit for his leadership in reaching out to his neighbours to develop peace and understanding. “I can't emphasise enough that it is profoundly in the interest of Pakistan and India to move their relationship forward,” he added.“This is the hardest time to work; it means you have to put a lot of time and effort into overcoming historical mistrust, past events and enmities that come from that history.
“We have to create a pact for sustainable peace through dialogue. We applaud the efforts to do so, we encourage both Pakistan and India to re-engage and the United States will do whatever it can to try to help in that effort,” Secretary Kerry said.ziz and Kerry agreed that peace and stability in Afghanistan was an essential pre-requisite for stability in Pakistan and in the region.“Secretary Kerry welcomed in his remarks the resolute steps initiated by Pakistan to counter the menace of terrorism through the National Action Plan and related measures,” Aziz said.Kerry said that the reality has never been clearer than on Dec 16. “The brutal murder of your children was felt by every parent and citizen in the United States. No one needed a reminder of Taliban’s disregard for human life and for freedom,” he said.
“Just as we stand with the people of France in its difficult hour, America will continue to stand with the people of Pakistan as they build a future that is free from the threat of violent extremism.“I welcome the strong consensus forged by Prime Minister Nawaz Sharif and Pakistan's leaders about the importance of combating all terrorists and terror groups,” Kerry said.s.Kerry praised the reopening of the school in Peshawar where Taliban gunmen on Dec 16 slaughtered students and teachers in one of the country's worst terrorist attacks.The school reopened on Monday. Kerry called it a “testament” to the resolve of the Pakistani people. The US Secretary of State later visited General Headquarters (GHQ) in Rawalpindi to meet Chief of Army Staff (COAS) General Raheel Sharif.

UlanBatori · Post by **UlanBatori** » 14 Jan 2015 01:20

I have come to the conclusion that there are only 2 ways to neutralize Paknooks.
1) A talibunny acquires one and uses it on Pindi, causing panicked rush to destroy the rest.
2) Break up TSP into 5. Kazakhstan/Ukraine/USSR analogy, with some added urgency from US.

As long as TSP has central guvrmand and Army has luxury mansions, India can ignore the Paknooks, they are completely useless.

member_22733 · Post by **member_22733** » 14 Jan 2015 01:23

^^^ (1) above can be simulated no? If a noook "from somewhere", "by someone who is friendly to India" can be ismuggled to Pindi and eggjploded after a rumor of bakee nooks going missing are announced. "The Fourth Protocol" style.

Prem · Post by **Prem** » 14 Jan 2015 03:22

LokeshC wrote:^^^ (1) above can be simulated no? If a noook "from somewhere", "by someone who is friendly to India" can be ismuggled to Pindi and eggjploded after a rumor of bakee nooks going missing are announced. "The Fourth Protocol" style.

An Urgent Upcoming Undertaking For Urshed Uigher Urkin to Unskirt Ugly Useless Umpalumpa PoaqnukampaAyesha to release the Unsatisfied dogmatic Ust and earn world' gratitude.

member_22733 · Post by **member_22733** » 14 Jan 2015 03:23

^^^ 448 bit encryption?

Prem · Post by **Prem** » 14 Jan 2015 03:27

LokeshC wrote:^^^ (1) above can be simulated no? If a noook "from somewhere", "by someone who is friendly to India" can be ismuggled to Pindi and eggjploded after a rumor of bakee nooks going missing are announced. "The Fourth Protocol" style.

The Interview Man of NOKO needs Money and hopefully ready to rent few Patakhas for Poakroast Plug and Play game. No body will know if Its NOKO Or POKO Or CHOKO who caused ParLoko.

member_22733 · Post by **member_22733** » 14 Jan 2015 03:29

ahhh.. thanks for the private key

Prem · Post by **Prem** » 14 Jan 2015 03:46

LokeshC wrote:ahhh.. thanks for the private key

NOKO, POKO Orr CHOKO, Sarre Mile Hue hain!!

Here Is Kerry- Lugar To AbdMassa Shyrif- Shaarif
Fight out ‘enemies’ of US, India, Afghanistan: Kerry

ISLAMABAD: Pakistan must fight militant groups that threaten Afghan, Indian and US interests, US Secretary of State John Kerry said on Tuesday as he offered sympathy for the victims of last month’s massacre of children at a school in Peshawar.Visiting Pakistan after going to India at the weekend, Kerry said all militant groups should be targeted to bring security to the region. “Terror groups like the Pakistani and Afghan Taliban, the Haqqani network, Lashkar-e-Taiba and other groups continue to pose a threat to Pakistan, to its neighbours and to the United States,” Kerry told a news conference in Islamabad, listing some of the most feared groups. “And all of us have a responsibility to ensure that these groups do not gain a foothold but rather are pushed back into the recesses of (Pakistan’s) memory... Make no mistake. The task is a difficult one and it is not done.”Most US-led occupation forces in neighbouring Afghanistan officially completed their combat mission last month, prompting concern about the stability of the region where insurgents have been increasingly aggressive in past months. Following the attack on the Peshawar school in which 134 children were killed, Pakistan has promised to stop differentiating between “good” and “bad” militants and to step up operations against their hideouts on the Afghan border. Before leaving Pakistan for Geneva, where he is due to meet Iranian Foreign Minister Jawad Zarif, Kerry had been expected to travel to Peshawar to visit the victims but the plan was scrapped.“Kerry had hoped to make a brief trip to Peshawar to visit survivors of the school massacre recovering in a hospital there but weather concerns forced him to cancel,” said a senior State Department official. The United States identified Pakistan as a key partner in its “war against terror” following the September 11, 2001, attacks and spent billions of dollars on military aid to help the country fight insurgents. But there is growing consternation in Washington about continuing with the same level of assistance unless Pakistan provides evidence it is using the funds effectively to eliminate militants in its territory.Kerry said, however, Washington would provide an additional $250 million in food, shelter and other assistance to help people displaced by conflict in tribal areas. “We expect our defence forces to remain engaged in counterterrorism operations for some time in the foreseeable future,” said Foreign Affairs Adviser Sartaj Aziz. “Continuation of coalition support fund reimbursements are therefore a valuable support that must continue in the interests of both countries.” He reassured his counterpart that “action will be taken without discrimination against all groups”.
“Obviously, the proof is going to be in the pudding,” Kerry said. “It will be seen over the next days, weeks, months, how extensive and how successful this effort is going to be.” Aziz said, however, that the Haqqani group’s infrastructure had been “totally destroyed” as a result of the Pakistan Army’s operation in a tribal region that has long been regarded as a safe haven for militants. “Their ability to operate from here across to Afghanistan has virtually disappeared,” Aziz said.The United States will enhance security and intelligence support with Pakistan in fighting terrorism, John Kerry said. “We all have a responsibility to ensure that these extremists are no longer able to secure a foothold in this country or elsewhere,” Kerry said in a joint press conference with Sartaj Aziz, after conclusion of Pak-US Strategic Dialogue at the Foreign Office. The two-day talks in Islamabad covered in-depth discussions with focus on entire spectrum of bilateral relations and other issues of mutual interest including fight against terrorism.

saip · Post by **saip** » 14 Jan 2015 04:58

CNN is talking about Pakistan-Afghanistan connection to Paris terror attack. Sooner or later the Pakistani connection come up in every terror attack.

Tuvaluan · Post by **Tuvaluan** » 14 Jan 2015 05:32

As expected the mofo Kerry just announced a $250 million aid to the pakis for "internally displaced persons" of which a major part is slated for cash disbursement, i.e, the money will not be accounted for, and will help the paki army funnel it towards anti-India terrorist groups -- this is the terrorist loving aholes in the US state dept. directly funding the paki army. Nothing changes in the US-Paki love affair, not even after "Al Qaeda" is found in pakiland.

shiv · Post by **shiv** » 14 Jan 2015 06:01

Tuvaluan wrote:As expected the mofo Kerry just announced a $250 million aid to the pakis for "internally displaced persons" of which a major part is slated for cash disbursement, i.e, the money will not be accounted for, and will help the paki army funnel it towards anti-India terrorist groups -- this is the terrorist loving aholes in the US state dept. directly funding the paki army. Nothing changes in the US-Paki love affair, not even after "Al Qaeda" is found in pakiland.

Got to give credit to the Americans for realizing that Islamics are fundamentally stupid and will always fall for a few dollars thrown their was and claim that America's work is the same as Allah's work. That is what the Paki army does and the US knows it.

The only thing is that a day may come when the Pakis want to use nukes and the US will signal that they will not mind if the nuke is used on India just like they signalled to that moron Saddam that they would not mind if he attacked Iran. The Europeans, and their legacy (Americans) were possibly fundamentally correct in their attitude about Islam and its followers. Pakis will do anything for a few dollars and the the praise of white man.

CRamS · Post by **CRamS** » 14 Jan 2015 06:09

Guys, we need to watch this guy Ajai Shukla. Especially who is funding him, his trips etc. Because here he is once again on that traitor thappad's show debunking every nuance, every word of the defense ministers press conf on the Paki terror boat and making a mockery of the effort.

I simply don't understand this f(king obsession to paint the govt in a dock over this issue. Don't the MoFos realize the damage they are doing to India? I mean as far as I am concerned, it does not matter if its a Paki smuggler boat or terror boat (they might be the same thing), they need to be hunted and mowed down. Thats the end of the story as far as I am concerned, and any Indian ought to be given that terror against India is an instrument of TSP policy, and no chances can be taken.

Amber G. · Post by **Amber G.** » 14 Jan 2015 06:56

saip wrote:CNN is talking about Pakistan-Afghanistan connection to Paris terror attack. Sooner or later the Pakistani connection come up in every terror attack.

Beghal (who was mentor/leader/recruiter/linked to all three Paris terrorists + wife fugitive) definitely had linke to AQ in Yemen as well as Abu Hamza.

Abu Hamza got life, recently got life sentence in US court..(for terrorist activities)..

Abu Hamza (Aka Captin Hook

also lost his eye and hands in Lahore.. -- Per US court documents, this is what he told "his injuries occurred whilst working with explosives with the Pakistani military in Lahore.. Terrorist Training camp.." (see link ** below).. (Abu Hamza's reputation was that he got those injuries fighting Jihad with Soviets in Afghanistan ...after all he was a preacher in US, UK etc...)

Link **: http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-11701269

It had been claimed his distinctive features were the result of an explosion while he was taking part in a demining project in Jalalabad, Afghanistan.

But at his US trial Abu Hamza said it happened while he was working with the Pakistani military in Lahore when an experiment with explosives went wrong.

Amber G. · Post by **Amber G.** » 14 Jan 2015 07:01

The Paris-Pindi Connection

Tuvaluan · Post by **Tuvaluan** » 14 Jan 2015 07:47

http://indiatoday.intoday.in/story/chuc ... 51820.html

SBajwa, check this out -- this is an old article from 2013. This american politician Chuck Hagel, who was a senator and nominated for post of defence secretary making claims that India opened a second front against pakistan in Afghanisthan -- you think the US govt. would not do such a thing if India actually put soldiers in Afghanisthan to fight the US's war?

shiv · Post by **shiv** » 14 Jan 2015 07:57

As I see it there is one "attitudinal" issue that clouds thinking about US-Pakistan relations. That is the idea that American officials are all rich, very happy, content and uncorruptible and that Pakistanis are always begging, poor and corruptible. These are the exact attitudes that were created about the west and about the Orient in 200 years of Oriental studies and Indians also believe this. You can replace the name Pakistan with India and exactly the same attitudes hold.

What this blinkered view fails to reveal is that Pakistanis have managed to charm the pants off a large number of Americans. Americans are humans like everyone else and prone to the same fears and insecurities. Pakistanis pick even obscure Americans and treat them like royalty. I must mention over here another observation about "Orientalism" as it was propagated in Europe and in the west.

The Orient of books was a place of mystery and charm - the oriental woman quiet and submissive, and hot and sultry like the Orient itself. But the real political orient was one of a corrupt people who were inferior to European races who needed to be controlled. So there is a twin idea of the Orient that exists. Pakistanis play beautifully upon the former and twist Americans round their little fingers.

But we Indians, brought up to believe that Americans are upright and incorruptible while we Orientals are lazy and corrupt cannot believe this. Even today on BRF we find Indians making post after post after post that push exactly these stereotypes.

We will never find out how many American army and private contractors have become rich by cutting out working engines from vehicles and allowing the Taliban and Pakis to buy them at scrap rates while new engines are ordered from the US. But we think Americans are controlling Pakistan.

Colonization runs deep.

Vipul · Post by **Vipul** » 14 Jan 2015 08:06

Psudeo-secular elements want Paki virus to spread in India. Dalai Lama is stealing Kuldip Nayar's thunder.

Pak Shias should move to India, says Dalai Lama.

Tibetan spiritual leader, the Dalai Lama, believes India is safe for the Muslim community, and the degree of security can be a ray of hope for the persecuted Shia community in Pakistan.

“Pakistan is a Muslim country but Shias are not safe there. But Muslims are safe in India. The Shia community should come to India and (be) safe,” he said on Tuesday at a programme organised by the Presidency University in Kolkata. The Tibetan spiritual leader added that Indian Muslims can offer lessons in Sunni-Shia harmony as the Shias are safe in India.

~~An outsider is telling/advising others to flock to India.Time to kick this foreigner back to China.~~

[Moderator Note: Mind the language. If you cannot fathom what his statement implies, no need to fly off the handle. - rohitvats]

kenop · Post by **kenop** » 14 Jan 2015 08:11

CRamS wrote:Guys, we need to watch this guy Ajai Shukla. Especially who is funding him, his trips etc. Because here he is once again on that traitor thappad's show debunking every nuance, every word of the defense ministers press conf on the Paki terror boat and making a mockery of the effort.

This guys is suspect since his Lahore yatra article. Has aak-thoo connection too.

ACM Tyagi declined to respond, but Col Ajai Shukla, a Track II member and its self-appointed spokesperson did. He was livid with anger but had no answers to our questions. So he called us all ‘communal scums’ and pointing to me wrote: “Amongst those with the most dubious credentials in this group is you. An IAS officer turned moralizer! What a combination, Sir-ji.”

Had some interaction on twitter

Amber G. · Post by **Amber G.** » 14 Jan 2015 08:16

AoA

Islamic State begins recruiting campaign in Pakistan

SLAMABAD The Islamic State formally has opened for business in the crowded militant markets of Afghanistan and Pakistan, announcing in a video over the weekend that it’s established an organizational structure dominated by notoriously anti-Shiite-Muslim former commanders of the Pakistani Taliban.

Tuvaluan · Post by **Tuvaluan** » 14 Jan 2015 08:19

Seems like the Paki army has started its game plan of pretending subcontinental variants of IS and Al Qaeda for their proxy wars against Afghanisthan and India, now that the older groups have changed focus. It will be interesting to see what this 'IS in pakistan" announces as its top priority -- if India is anywhere on the list, then the paki army is backing this Paki-IS without a doubt.

Prem · Post by **Prem** » 14 Jan 2015 08:33

Military operation costs

Marsoo Marsoo Begging Bowl Na Chaddsoo

THE finance minister has disclosed that an incremental expenditure of at least Rs110bn will be required this fiscal year to meet the expenses arising from the military’s Operation Zarb-i-Azb under way in North Waziristan and its larger fallout.Of this, he says, Rs75bn will be used for the operation and Rs35bn for IDPs, which presumably includes the cost of reconstruction in populated areas that have been destroyed by the bombing. This is an out-of-budget expense, meaning it was not programmed into the expenditure plan in June 2014. The fiscal deficit target, already under pressure from declining revenues, will probably need to be revised upwards, with commitments to the IMF and implications for the fiscal framework, and other areas of the budget from where resources will have to be freed up to pay for this incremental expenditure.But the finance minister must try and obtain greater disclosures from the military about how this money is being spent, even if those numbers are not to be made public. The government can afford this expense given the nature of the threat, but since it has ramifications for other areas of the budget, and because it is an off-budget item, it is important that there be at least some oversight to ensure that it is being spent wisely. The figure appears to suggest that the military operation may be larger than what we have been led to believe, both in its present execution as well as its future scope. Reportedly, two divisions are involved in the operation, and if their expenses can add up to such a huge sum then it is essential for the government to raise the right questions regarding these expenditures. If the costs of mobilising a small number of divisions can escalate so rapidly, then one wonders what the expenses would be in the event of a larger conflict, and how far the fiscal framework can sustain them. It is hoped that our rulers will focus on these concerns as they proceed with their plans.

kenop · Post by **kenop** » 14 Jan 2015 08:40

Didn't somebody say here that the SFTUPA will not like expansion of ISIS in Pukiland as that would mean severe loss of control?
After all, at the SFTUPA level it is for personal gains for each human component. The ideology does provide the opportunity to benefit and when sponsorship is available, each one of the SFTUPA member would partake (they have no comprehensive ideas on what could constitute non-evil)
On the other side sponsorship of any vermin by Amirkhan does work very well for them. Now, it may well be the case that Amirkhan's strategy has evolved to the next higher level and all future business will be transacted through this new creature. If I understand correctly, this is a consolidation of sorts with a thought to get rid of the exposed/vulnerable dog. It is a world-wide phenomenon now and India should not protest too much about the attacks it faces. What to do onlee.

shiv · Post by **shiv** » 14 Jan 2015 08:52

Tuvaluan wrote:Seems like the Paki army has started its game plan of pretending subcontinental variants of IS and Al Qaeda for their proxy wars against Afghanisthan and India, now that the older groups have changed focus. It will be interesting to see what this 'IS in pakistan" announces as its top priority -- if India is anywhere on the list, then the paki army is backing this Paki-IS without a doubt.

In the past I would use such opportunities to start a pure propaganda thread on BRF on the lines of "Pakistan army's sacrifices for America"

The actual posts don't matter as long as a few tens of thousands of eyes see the title of the thread. I am tempted to do that again

Altair · Post by **Altair** » 14 Jan 2015 09:39

Vipul wrote:
“Pakistan is a Muslim country but Shias are not safe there. But Muslims are safe in India. The Shia community should come to India and (be) safe,” he said on Tuesday at a programme organised by the Presidency University in Kolkata. The Tibetan spiritual leader added that Indian Muslims can offer lessons in Sunni-Shia harmony as the Shias are safe in India.

An outsider is telling/advising others to flock to India.Time to kick this foreigner back to China.

Not so fast. This view coming from his highness breaks the two nation theory yet again. If we can use this assertion in an international platform about how insecure "minority muslims" are in Pakistan, it can be leveraged to cut funds and slew of other punitive measures. The beggar will not get a penny and will receive a kick in guts by donors for family abuse. HH Dalai Lama has some clout with big agencies which work for "world peace".

.We can make him a poster boy to target the Pakjabi majority.

Vipul · Post by **Vipul** » 14 Jan 2015 10:03

Dalai Lama has clout only with the international whisky/pasta gulping conference hoping clowns. When it comes to the real movers and shakers of the world - USA and China, he has zilch clout. He has no right to give any patronising sermon to India to accomadate the Paki Shia's. He should instead invite the Uighurs Muslims from Xinjiang to migrate to Tibet.

Altair · Post by **Altair** » 14 Jan 2015 10:13

Vipul wrote:Dalai Lama has clout only with the international whisky/pasta gulping conference hoping clowns. When it comes to the real movers and shakers of the world - USA and China, he has zilch clout. He has no right to give any patronising sermon to India to accomadate the Paki Shia's. He should instead invite the Uighurs Muslims from Xinjiang to migrate to Tibet.

We cannot ask all idiots and crooks to get out. There wont be anyone left to play. We must learn to use useful idiots against crooks and crooks against traitors, traitors against enemies.

chetak · Post by **chetak** » 14 Jan 2015 10:20

Today shia and very soon the sunni too

He has done this to give a plausible entry to discussions for paki, bangladeshi or maldives muslims to demand asylum in India. If raised by an Indian muslim it would have got a politically colored motive but HH the dalailama has over stepped his bounds as a valued and honored guest and has fallen to the level of a disgraced azim khan or owasi.

It's time for him to leave India.

member_28803 · Post by **member_28803** » 14 Jan 2015 10:23

Maybe The Tibetan spiritual leader can spin this to ask France, EU, anyone in The West to take them in

johneeG · Post by **johneeG** » 14 Jan 2015 10:54

shiv wrote:As I see it there is one "attitudinal" issue that clouds thinking about US-Pakistan relations. That is the idea that American officials are all rich, very happy, content and uncorruptible and that Pakistanis are always begging, poor and corruptible. These are the exact attitudes that were created about the west and about the Orient in 200 years of Oriental studies and Indians also believe this. You can replace the name Pakistan with India and exactly the same attitudes hold.

What this blinkered view fails to reveal is that Pakistanis have managed to charm the pants off a large number of Americans. Americans are humans like everyone else and prone to the same fears and insecurities. Pakistanis pick even obscure Americans and treat them like royalty. I must mention over here another observation about "Orientalism" as it was propagated in Europe and in the west.

The Orient of books was a place of mystery and charm - the oriental woman quiet and submissive, and hot and sultry like the Orient itself. But the real political orient was one of a corrupt people who were inferior to European races who needed to be controlled. So there is a twin idea of the Orient that exists. Pakistanis play beautifully upon the former and twist Americans round their little fingers.

But we Indians, brought up to believe that Americans are upright and incorruptible while we Orientals are lazy and corrupt cannot believe this. Even today on BRF we find Indians making post after post after post that push exactly these stereotypes.

We will never find out how many American army and private contractors have become rich by cutting out working engines from vehicles and allowing the Taliban and Pakis to buy them at scrap rates while new engines are ordered from the US. But we think Americans are controlling Pakistan.

Colonization runs deep.

Does every American control every Pakistani? No.
Is it possible that Pakistan has bribed some Americans to become their lobbyists? Very probable.
Is America unaware about Pakistan's general behaviour? Less likely.
Does Pakistan exist only because of American help? YES. YES. YES.

So, does America have complete control on actions of individual elements of Pakistan? Not likely.
Does America have substantial control on many elements of Pakistan? Very likely.
Will Pakistan disintegrate if America abandons them? Very likely.

The first question is: how is Pakistan kept afloat by America?
Ans: Easy money and weapons.

America provides huge amount of aid to Pakistan directly and indirectly. Most of this is provided in the form of easy dollars. No other country can give this kind of aid. Why? Because America literally prints money. No other country can print global currency. Only America can do it and it does it quite frequently. It prints money and distributes it to those it wants to prop up. This free money also allows America to wage proxy wars all over the world. This free money is not available to any other country. Therefore, American empire will not be thwarted as long as Dollars reigns supreme.

These free dollars are used to prop up many regimes which are seen as useful for America in short-term and long-term. One such country happens to be Pakistan.

what does Pakistan do with this free money?
Well, firstly, a good percentage of that money goes back to America in the form of fees to lobbyists or bribes or some such thing.
Secondly, it goes into the coffers of the elites of Pakistan. Zardari was known as Mr. 10%.
Thirdly, it goes into creating human assets in other countries like sympathetic politicians, journalists, babus, ...etc.
Finally, it goes into creating army(regular and irregular).
The irregular army of Pakistan happens to be jihadhi terrorists.

The next part of US support to Pakistan is weapons. Without US weapons, Pakistan can never hope to fight any war against Bhaarath. Forget fighting against Bhaarath, Pakistan will not even be a single country without US help.

For example, if US with-holds the money and weapons to Pakistan army and instead provides the same money and weapons to say Balochistan Liberation Army, then Balochistan Liberation Army will be able to easily defeat Pakistan Army. Pakistan Army is able to suppress Balochistan Liberation Army only because of US support. In short, Pakistan is a single country because US wants Pakistan to exist as a single country.

America is known for its military-industrial complex. So, America has many weapons which it can sell or even gift to friendly regimes. Pakistan happens to be one such friendly regime.

Can China or Russia or anyone else replace America as Pakistan Army's patron?
Of course, some other country can patronize Pakistan Army if America abandons them, but it is unlikely that any other country can support Pakistan Army in the way America is able to help them. Because America has weapons and free money. No other country has a combination of these two and therefore no one else can support Pakistan in the way America supports them.

The obvious question is: why is Pakistan kept afloat by America from the time of its inception?

Well, there can be many reasons like:
a) cold-war politics(Bhaarath joined with Soviets, so Pakistan was taken under the wing of US).
b) foothold in south-Asia.
c) Access to central-Asia.
d) mercenary army

But, all these things seem like a collateral advantages to me. I think the real reason is:
America inherited its empire from British. British were the masters of the world until they controlled Bhaarath. The moment British gave up control of Bhaarath, British were relegated to the coat-tails of America. America would surely understand this simple concept.

So, it was actually Bhaarath's empire on the world and British were only the masters of Bhaarath. Why is Bhaarath able to run an empire?
Population.
British were able to run an empire because Bhaarath provided them with soldiers, labour, and raw-resources. These were used by the British to establish an empire all over the world.

Only China and Bhaarath have such enormous populations. No other country in the world has that. Infact, majority of humanity is mostly Bhaarath and China. The rest are a minority. So, China and Bhaarath will also be major markets because they have the largest populations.

In short, Bhaarath and China are the natural leaders of the world. And in fact, they were the leaders of the world for most of the history. European rise was due to colonialism based enslaving, looting, drugs and piracy. As soon as colonialism has ended, europe is going back to its natural pecking order.

Given, these simple dynamics, Pax Americana would notice that its important to control China and Bhaarath. Note that America supports divided China(by supporting Taiwan) and divided Bhaarath(by supporting Pakistan). So, there is a consistent policy to keep Bhaarath and China divided.

The other aspect is to Christianize Bhaarath and China. The idea is that the christianized people in the region would look up to the west just as the islamized people in the region look up the middle-east.

China showed guts to take on America directly in vietnam using the proxies. At that time, China seems to have differed with Soviets and yet, they did not allow the Americans in their back yard. Similarly, China was heavily involved in Korea. I think the guts shown by the China and defeat suffered by America in Vietnam convinced America that China indeed should be respected and engaged. So, they started engaging with China.

The major advantage of China is that China did not come under full scale foreign occupation like Bhaarath.

On the other hand, Bhaarath has been under full scale occupation of foreign forces. After 1947, Bhaarath started a slow process of consolidation. The process seems to have been slower due to influence of west on kongis. Anyway, Goa was integrated, Tibet was lost, close-ties with Bhutan, Pakistan was broken up and Sikkim was integrated.

Bhaarath also showed great guts during creation of Bangladhesh. Even China has not dared to directly take on Taiwan while Bhaarath has broken Pakistan into two. But, at that time, Bhaarath was in Soviet camp and was therefore seen as a full-fledged enemy. Therefore, the support to Pakistan was increased after the creation of Bangladhesh. The paranoia in Pakistani rulers would have also increased tremendously after seeing the way in which their country broke so easily. It just exposed the artificiality of Pakistan as a nation.

I think Bhaarath showed guts in taking on Pakistan in Kargil because there were threats of full-scale war under the shadow of missiles and perhaps, even nukes. Inspite of such threats, Bhaarath didn't back off from protecting its territorial integrity. Pakistan was hoping that US would intervene on its behalf and force Bhaarath to not escalate the issue. I think that was the whole crux of Musharraf's planning about Kargil. This time, there was no soviet union and still Bhaarath did not budge. I think US thought it could take the place of Soviets for Bhaarath, now that Soviets were no more.

This re-orientation of US policy towards Bhaarath after Kargil seems to have really frightened Pakistan. Pakistan seems to realize the importance of America's role in Pakistan's survival as a nation and that also explains their paranoia about America warming up to Bhaarath. Because Pakistan seems to be afraid that if America warms up to Bhaarath and negotiates some deal, then America might stop supporting Pakistan. If America stops supporting Pakistan, then Pakistan will simply break even if Bhaarath does not directly fight a war against Pakistan army.

Despite engaging both China and Bhaarath, America has kept one thing constant:
It seems to realize that Bhaarath and China are the natural leaders of the world. And hence need to be handled carefully. When Bhaarath and China were weak, America tried to support the renegade elements and secessionists. Once they became little stronger, America is starting to engage them but still not ready to give up support to the renegades or secessionists.

The difference between Bhaarath and China is that China seems to have understood all these issues and has a clear-cut one china policy. Another difference is that Bhaarath is still recovering territory which it lost. While, China is annexing new territory and is getting bloated. China managed to annex Tibet, Mongolia and Manchuria. Bhaarath had lost Afghanistan and Pakistan.

In simple terms, China is already on the offensive. Bhaarath is still fighting a defensive war. Bhaarath does not even have any one-Bhaarath policy similar to one-China policy.

The first step to becoming global leader is to become the regional leader. And this is where Pakistan comes into picture. Pakistan's role is tie down Bhaarath and not let it become even a proper regional leader. As long as Pakistan exists as an entity, it will be used to tie down Bhaarath. Even China understands this and therefore supports Pakistan because even China wants to keep its competitors tied down in silly conflicts.

So, I think the policy of Bhaarath should be to actively work towards disintegration of Pakistan into 5 states:
a) Balochistan - Capital Karachi
b) Pakhtunkwa - Capital Peshwar
c) Sindh - Capital Hyd
d) Northern Punjab - Capital Lahore
e) Southern Punjab - Seriaki - Capital Multan

Disintegration of Pakistan into these 5 states will also mean that POK will land in the hands of Bhaarath. Once POK is in the hands of Bhaarath, Bhaarath will have direct connection to Afghanisthan.

Once these small states are established, then Bhaarath will become a de-facto ruler of the entire region. This is the first step to having a global role for Bhaarath.

Once this critical region is under Bhaarath's rulership, Bhaarath will have a powerful role globally. Pakistan is simply a roadblock in Bhaarath's route. Unless Bhaarath gets rid of this shackle called Pakistan, Bhaarath will remain shackled in the region.

The question is how can Pakistan be disintegrated?
Will US help in such a venture?
If US is against disintegration of Pakistan, can Bhaarath still disintegrate Pakistan?

One reason why US and others might be open to the idea of disintegration of Pakistan is:
Pakistan has been in the process of disintegration despite the best efforts of US and its allies. Pakistan is very very unstable. Even if Bhaarath does not break Pakistan, there are still good chances that radicalism in Pakistan will continue to increase and end up in a situation where islamist warlords rule over their person fiefdoms. It seems that Raheel Shareif has promised the America that he will keep a handle on radicalization in his country. But, is this possible? Even if he is successful(assuming he is sincere in his quest to put down radicalism), is it going to stop the long term radicalization of Pakistan?

The only stable solution to the Pakistan problem is to divide it into stable countries.

What can Bhaarath offer to US in return for US agreeing to disintegration of Pakistan?
US would obviously want access to the markets of Bhaarath. Corporates seem to have enormous influence in US. If Bhaarath can offer any such sweet deal to US, US might be ready for disintegration of Pakistan especially when it is starting to seem that Pakistan will break anyway.

Should Bhaarath wait for Pakistan to break or should Bhaarath proactively balkanize Pakistan?
If Pakistan breaks down by itself without outside help, then such break up will involve lot of bloodshed. It was seen last time during partitions in 1947 and even during creation of Bangladhesh in 1971.

Lisa · Post by **Lisa** » 14 Jan 2015 11:11

Jivana wrote:Maybe The Tibetan spiritual leader can spin this to ask France, EU, anyone in The West to take them in

Please do not say that.

Shias are unhappy.
They cannot live as a minority in that majority,

so

Partition pukistan!

Altair · Post by **Altair** » 14 Jan 2015 11:27

Lisa wrote:
Jivana wrote:Maybe The Tibetan spiritual leader can spin this to ask France, EU, anyone in The West to take them in
Please do not say that.

Shias are unhappy.
They cannot live as a minority in that majority,

so

Partition pukistan!

Exactly, We can have a Shiastan, Ahmedistan along with Sindh and Balochistan. We can even have "Moderate-Pakjabistan" and "Wannabe-Caliphatistan".

pankajs · Post by **pankajs** » 14 Jan 2015 11:34

-- deleted --
Incomplete post ... Check my next post.

Aditya_V · Post by **Aditya_V** » 14 Jan 2015 11:41

But USA took Pakistan in 1954, India went to Soviets in 1963, they just couch thier collective Anti Hindu hatred with such comments.

pankajs · Post by **pankajs** » 14 Jan 2015 11:46

johneeG wrote:a) cold-war politics(Bhaarath joined with Soviets, so Pakistan was taken under the wing of US).

I have been meaning to comment on this aspect after watching many American commentators on Indian-US relations but kept forgetting.

Most Americans too would state something similar e.g A mild one would be "Indians went with the Soviets and American with Pakistanis". To me that always *sounded* like "BECAUSE India went with Soviets America was FORCED to go with Pakistan" i.e the past state of the relationship was India's fault.

My *understanding*, and I could be wrong, is that Pak *offered* itself to the Americans but the Americans wanted India as a partner in our region. When India kept fending off the Americans with its no-aligned rhetoric the Americans finally went with Pakistan. India always had a socialistic leaning but it was pushed firmly into the Soviet orbit only after the US-Pak partnership and BECAUSE of that partnership.

So from my POV the history of India-US relationship should be stated as "US forged a close partnership with Pakistan forcing India to ally with the Soviets".

To me that sounds substantially different from how it is presented by the US commentators and left unchallenged by Indians. That is a *subtle* shifting of blame if there is to be blame that is. Would like others to comment on this or am I making a mountain of a molehill???