Indian Missiles and Munitions Discussion - June'14

Karan M · Post by **Karan M** » 26 Jan 2015 00:15

If he was selling to the ISI then he's hardly innocent unless he didnt know who he was selling to but surely he must have had come common sense?!.

Ramana - thats the worrisome part. Your hypothesis is very plausible because who else could be allowed to film inside the premises...

ramana · Post by **ramana** » 26 Jan 2015 01:09

I think IB needs to re-verify the clearances of the DRDO employees after this fiasco.

Karan M · Post by **Karan M** » 26 Jan 2015 04:04

Complete overhaul of how they hire contract etc employees also needed. On BRF we self censor and inside/outside our bases, people are happily reporting in real time.

srai · Post by **srai** » 26 Jan 2015 05:20

Did they catch his ISI handlers? They should be using opportunities like this for counter-survelliance of ISI agents and their setup in India. Then make mass arrests at crucial junctures.

Singha · Post by **Singha** » 26 Jan 2015 10:39

another area to screen carefully would be the construction crews and grass cutting crews who move around inside areas like airbases. these are usually outsourced to local contractors and have very little supervision let alone any form of security clearances from the local police.

we need some desi form of blackwater and haliburton who can provide contractors of every hue from IT to grass cutting to masons with the right clearances kept up to date. perhaps a new business area for INFY

only they should be allowed to big for and manage defence establishment contracts not just anyone.

its time to tighten the perimeter.

vishvak · Post by **vishvak** » 26 Jan 2015 15:03

In this era, there are so many ideologies and fronts who work for one or the other, it is difficult to tell which is which, unless there is enough muscle to clear the mess away. From what I read, blackwater is the biggest and most advanced mercenary force with "international" presence and Mosanto bought blackwater already! link By the way, Mosanto is a public (shares tradable) biotech corp global giant.

deejay · Post by **deejay** » 26 Jan 2015 16:03

The daily or casual labour employed is from a regular pool and a practice across military installation. Their entry and exit is carefully screened. They are employed for Grass cutting (in airfield) or other labour intensive projects. In sensitive areas, they help the military build bridges with local population. It has its cons, but the jobs are of temporary nature and place of work is not certain. Secondly, since people are known, their residences are also known, it is possible to track back.

Employing and outside agency, is far more risky. There will be no control on where they bring their labour from and who those labourers are. Speaking for myself, I would be very uncomfortable knowing Blackwater or even SIS/G4S like guys are in the technical areas.

SSridhar · Post by **SSridhar** » 27 Jan 2015 17:13

OK, the Obama excitement is over. Time for action at Chandipur.

ravip · Post by **ravip** » 28 Jan 2015 14:19

This time China will get some of its own taste of psychological warfare, as our MEA visits their country on 31st Jan we will test the road mobile ICBM.

SSridhar · Post by **SSridhar** » 28 Jan 2015 16:38

ravip, I'm loving it.

member_28840 · Post by **member_28840** » 28 Jan 2015 17:20

ravip wrote:This time China will get some of its own taste of psychological warfare, as our MEA visits their country on 31st Jan we will test the road mobile ICBM.

And all this time, here we were thinking Agni pushed back due to Obama... Guess we have the crafty Messrs Modi and Doval to thank

Altair · Post by **Altair** » 28 Jan 2015 17:37

I have an idea for @narendramodi
He should tweet our Agni success and tag @AbeShinzo
Will send the message loud and clear.
Will be a good rebuttal for China declaring Pakistan an allweathelfliend when we signed the nuke deal as well.

HKumar · Post by **HKumar** » 28 Jan 2015 20:48

Brahmos news -

http://www.oneindia.com/india/sukhoi-to ... 34939.html

Bengaluru, Jan 28: Hindustan Aeronautics Ltd (HAL) Chairman Dr R K Tyagi confirmed on Wednesday that the Indian Air Force (IAF) will test the first air version of BrahMos missile from the Sukhoi (Su-30 MKI) in March 2015. Responding to a query from OneIndia, Tyagi said that HAL has been working on modifying the Sukhoi for the last two years. Sukhoi to fire 1st BrahMos missile soon Brahmos "The initial requirement is for two Sukhois and we have almost completed the integration work on the first one. We will be taking up the next one later. The first trial is scheduled for March this year," Tyagi said. S Subramanyan, Director, MiG Complex, HAL, said that the crucial Ground Vibration Test (GVT) on the first Sukhoi was completed last year. "Everything is on track. We will have a dummy drop first followed by the actual firing," he added.

ravip · Post by **ravip** » 28 Jan 2015 23:04

xave wrote:
ravip wrote:This time China will get some of its own taste of psychological warfare, as our MEA visits their country on 31st Jan we will test the road mobile ICBM.
And all this time, here we were thinking Agni pushed back due to Obama... Guess we have the crafty Messrs Modi and Doval to thank

Neither NaMo nor doval has got anything to do with the timing, we should stop giving them unnecessary credit. To be honest this test was supposed to happen in Feb but was advanced to 31st Jan as a farewell event to Avinash chander after his unceremonious exit.

More than this event, in March Doval will be meeting his counterpart from China. Around this time we are supposed to test air launched bhramos and in May NaMo will visit China i wish we should test K4 to send clear and loud message.

ramana · Post by **ramana** » 28 Jan 2015 23:48

Altair wrote:I have an idea for @narendramodi
He should tweet our Agni success and tag @AbeShinzo
Will send the message loud and clear.
Will be a good rebuttal for China declaring Pakistan an allweathelfliend when we signed the nuke deal as well.

He will tweet anyway. We can send the message to all who needed it.

We can be the squirrels.

Raveen · Post by **Raveen** » 28 Jan 2015 23:52

ravip wrote:
xave wrote: And all this time, here we were thinking Agni pushed back due to Obama... Guess we have the crafty Messrs Modi and Doval to thank

Neither NaMo nor doval has got nothing to do with the timing

you'd be surprised...

Vayutuvan · Post by **Vayutuvan** » 29 Jan 2015 03:11

ramana: What is snake ruby?

ramana · Post by **ramana** » 29 Jan 2015 05:08

Dileep Story on East Coast of India.

Prem Kumar · Post by **Prem Kumar** » 29 Jan 2015 07:44

TOI-let paper reveals hitherto unknown capabilities of Brahmos. Calls it a Thermonuclear Cruise Missile!!!

Sivathanu Pillai khush hoga http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/indi ... 049188.cms

johneeG · Post by **johneeG** » 29 Jan 2015 07:55

** Deleted **

member_28840 · Post by **member_28840** » 29 Jan 2015 07:59

^^ ISI propaganda.

This should give you a clue about who is behind this.
http://dailymailnews.com/contact-us/

Nuclear deal being sealed, inclusion into NSG, the world looking at India as a responsible nuclear power with a good non-proliferation track record... compared with the sorry state of affairs that is bakistan.. an inch away from being labeled a failed state. It really must burn deep within their psyche. So they will come up with crap like this and clueless madrassa educated "folk" (replace with expletive of your choice) will buy it and rant away against the unfairness of how bakistan is treated in the world.

Karan M · Post by **Karan M** » 29 Jan 2015 08:43

Congratulations Johnee G, now you are posting Baki propaganda on an Indian thread, running down a prominent Indian missile scientist and organization without any fact checking whatsoever.

Seriously, do you just post anything and everything you find on the net without any iota of research on the issue.

member_27581 · Post by **member_27581** » 29 Jan 2015 08:48

xave wrote:Seriously, do you just post anything and everything you find on the net without any iota of research on the issue.

[OT ]
All said and done the author of this article must be commended for imagination. I wish him best of luck for loliwood movies.
[OT ]

Karan M · Post by **Karan M** » 29 Jan 2015 08:58

It'd be funny but for the fact this rubbish is posted on BR with the glib assertion "I dont know the veracity" but hey here it is anyway..

johneeG · Post by **johneeG** » 29 Jan 2015 09:27

Karan M wrote:Congratulations Johnee G, now you are posting Baki propaganda on an Indian thread, running down a prominent Indian missile scientist and organization without any fact checking whatsoever.

Seriously, do you just post anything and everything you find on the net without any iota of research on the issue.

Yes, I just saw jhujhar's post and googled it and found this article and posted it here. Didn't research anything else. Infact, I was hoping that someone on this thread would clear the matter. Thats why I posted it here.

Anyway, if its ISI propaganda, then better to know what the enemy is saying and refute it rather than be unaware of it.

>>you are posting Baki propaganda on an Indian thread, running down a prominent Indian missile scientist and organization without any fact checking whatsoever.

What kind of fact-checking do you expect from average posters on forum? Actually, I didn't realize that it was a Paki website. I saw the name of the author(Christina Palmer) which was a western name and I assumed that it must be some western site. Didn't click around and posted it immediately. Anyway, negative news/alternate news are generally found at such sites, so I assumed that it was some such site. If I knew that it was a pakistani site, I wouldn't have posted it. I'll delete it if you want.

Frankly, I am more concerned about whether there is any truth in this allegation or not. That was the reason I posted the article without thinking in a rush. If its not true, then I'll be more than happy.

Why do you come up with 'how can you post this?' 'This is an insult to our scientists?' ...etc arguments? If someone posted something and you disagree with or if you think its factually incorrect then go ahead and refute it. I think censorship is not a good thing. If you don't want people to post anything negative, then what will be there to discuss?

The problem with posting negative/alternate news is that it will come from dubious sources. Negative aspects will be highlighted by enemies only. But, thats fine. Because it helps us in filling up the loopholes or drawbacks. If its just enemy propaganda, then better to be aware of what enemy is trying to sell. And refute enemy's propaganda.

Anyway, if you want me to delete it, then say so and I'll delete it. Or the mods can do it.

EDIT: Yes, I again visited that site and it seems to be a total propaganda site. Sorry for posting from it. I delete that post.

EDIT: Ok, the mods have already deleted it.

Karan M · Post by **Karan M** » 29 Jan 2015 10:02

Typical long winded reply to a simple statement which would have been yes i should not have posted ISI propaganda without doing any fact checking. That scientist whose reputation you were impugning served India. As regards countering etc you want to give more eyeballs to a Pak pov and disseminate it. And we should waste our time too. Thanks but no thanks.

johneeG · Post by **johneeG** » 29 Jan 2015 10:24

Karan M wrote:Typical long winded reply to a simple statement which would have been yes i should not have posted ISI propaganda without doing any fact checking. That scientist whose reputation you were impugning served India. As regards countering etc you want to give more eyeballs to a Pak pov and disseminate it. And we should waste our time too. Thanks but no thanks.

Yes, in this case, it was my fault to post from that site. I am sorry. But, it seems that you are generally against any negative news. I believe that criticism is good, if one is a well-wisher. You seem to believe that any negative news is an insult to DRDO or scientists. My long winded reply was addressed to your attempt to censor negative news.

As for this case, I already said that I wouldn't have posted it if I had known it was a paki site. I assumed it was a western site because of the western sounding name of the author. I am sorry. Anyway, I am happy that news was just propaganda.

Indranil · Post by **Indranil** » 29 Jan 2015 10:39

Move on.

dinesha · Post by **dinesha** » 29 Jan 2015 18:48

Canister Launch of Agni-V on Saturday

BALASORE: After the three-day tour of US President Barack Obama, the Defence Research Development Organisation (DRDO) here is readying for the first canister launch of India’s longest range ballistic missile Agni-V in full operational configuration. The test is likely to be carried out from the Integrated Test Range (ITR) off the Odisha coast on Saturday.

Defence sources said, the test was postponed twice -- in December and early January -- due to Obama visit and lack of schedule of Prime Minister Narendra Modi who was slated to witness the launch along with the Defence Minister.
While the Prime Minister's Office (PMO) is yet to confirm Modi’s visit, the organisation is likely to go ahead with its schedule. The DRDO is planning to give a memorable farewell to its outgoing Chief Avinash Chander, who was unceremoniously removed from his post on January 13, sources in DRDO informed The Express.

“As the term of Chander, the brain behind the Agni missiles, ends on January 31, the scientists want to make the date momentous,” said sources.

Meanwhile, preparations for the launch are on in full swing at the Wheeler Island. Over 300 scientists and technical staff from several laboratories including Hyderabad-based Defence Research and Development Laboratory (DRDL), Research Centre Imarat (RCI) and Advanced Systems Laboratory (ASL) are camping here.

During the test, Agni-V will be fired from a sealed canister mounted on a launcher truck. With a dummy payload, the missile will be pushed out of the canister by a gas generator after which the actual stage separations will occur as per the coordination.

With a strike range of over 5,000, Agni-V is country’s first intercontinental range ballistic missile (ICBM) which is capable of hitting targets in all Asian countries and parts of Africa and Europe. The 17-metre long, two-metre wide, three-stage, solid-fuelled missile can carry a payload of 1.5 tonne and weighs around 50 tonnes.

A canister-launch system gives the forces the requisite operational flexibility to promptly transport the ballistic missile and launch it from a place of their choice. The DRDO is also working on the canister version of other Agni series of missiles including I, III and IV.

A successful launch would push the missile a step forward towards its induction in the Armed Forces signaling the defence organisation to go for its production though it has to undergo two more trials before it is inducted, possibly in two years.

After Agni-V missile is inducted, the DRDO will focus more on multiple independently targetable re-entry vehicles (MIRVs) and manoeuvring warheads or re-entry vehicles to defeat enemy ballistic missile defence manoeuvring systems.

RoyG · Post by **RoyG** » 29 Jan 2015 18:52

I hope we get a maneuverable canister truck like the Russians. The truck in the pic launching the dummy missile seemed very bulky and unstable.

jamwal · Post by **jamwal** » 29 Jan 2015 19:33

This is not a real picture.

Karan M · Post by **Karan M** » 29 Jan 2015 21:39

JohneeG wrote: But, it seems that you are generally against any negative news. I believe that criticism is good, if one is a well-wisher. You seem to believe that any negative news is an insult to DRDO or scientists. My long winded reply was addressed to your attempt to censor negative news.

This sort of illogical thinking shouldnt be allowed to stand wherein you make insinuations against individuals when you can't admit your mistakes without rationalizing (simultaneously apologizing and then being aggressive) & then try to state yourself as a well wisher, one who is into free speech and similar noble ideals whilst giving credence to pysops against Indian institutions and individuals.

Lets correct your misplaced claims, shall we.

Nobody on this forum is against facts. Bad news like ISRO or DRDOs missile failing for instance. Bad news like Arjun only being stuck at 240 odd tanks while the Army goes for 1000's of T-90s. Bad news like Kaveri being behind the LCA program and being resuscitated only for the AMCA and so forth.

OTOH, republishing hate speech against Indian institutions and respected scientific personnel without any attempt to even discern what is right or wrong is not "negative news" and censorship. Its plain wrong.

Hate speech and propaganda is not criticism. Its plain psy-ops. Kindly familiarize yourself with these issues. We don't link Pak forums on these threads for the same reason.

As Indian citizens and on a website called Bharat-Rakshak, there are clearly some basic standards expected. If you can't undestand what is the difference between "negative news" and propaganda, wherein you think publicizing any and every attack against Indian interests is free speech, and when people point out the difference you get defensive, then there really is nothing to say. Your long winded reply, in short, was devoid of logic & was an attempt to rationalize clearly execrable behavior.

Karan M · Post by **Karan M** » 29 Jan 2015 21:45

dinesha wrote:Canister Launch of Agni-V on Saturday

BALASORE: After the three-day tour of US President Barack Obama, the Defence Research Development Organisation (DRDO) here is readying for the first canister launch of India’s longest range ballistic missile Agni-V in full operational configuration. The test is likely to be carried out from the Integrated Test Range (ITR) off the Odisha coast on Saturday.

Defence sources said, the test was postponed twice -- in December and early January -- due to Obama visit and lack of schedule of Prime Minister Narendra Modi who was slated to witness the launch along with the Defence Minister.
While the Prime Minister's Office (PMO) is yet to confirm Modi’s visit, the organisation is likely to go ahead with its schedule. The DRDO is planning to give a memorable farewell to its outgoing Chief Avinash Chander, who was unceremoniously removed from his post on January 13, sources in DRDO informed The Express.

“As the term of Chander, the brain behind the Agni missiles, ends on January 31, the scientists want to make the date momentous,” said sources.

Meanwhile, preparations for the launch are on in full swing at the Wheeler Island. Over 300 scientists and technical staff from several laboratories including Hyderabad-based Defence Research and Development Laboratory (DRDL), Research Centre Imarat (RCI) and Advanced Systems Laboratory (ASL) are camping here.

During the test, Agni-V will be fired from a sealed canister mounted on a launcher truck. With a dummy payload, the missile will be pushed out of the canister by a gas generator after which the actual stage separations will occur as per the coordination.

With a strike range of over 5,000, Agni-V is country’s first intercontinental range ballistic missile (ICBM) which is capable of hitting targets in all Asian countries and parts of Africa and Europe. The 17-metre long, two-metre wide, three-stage, solid-fuelled missile can carry a payload of 1.5 tonne and weighs around 50 tonnes.

A canister-launch system gives the forces the requisite operational flexibility to promptly transport the ballistic missile and launch it from a place of their choice. The DRDO is also working on the canister version of other Agni series of missiles including I, III and IV.

A successful launch would push the missile a step forward towards its induction in the Armed Forces signaling the defence organisation to go for its production though it has to undergo two more trials before it is inducted, possibly in two years.

After Agni-V missile is inducted, the DRDO will focus more on multiple independently targetable re-entry vehicles (MIRVs) and manoeuvring warheads or re-entry vehicles to defeat enemy ballistic missile defence manoeuvring systems.

The last portion is where I hope, that Shri Chanders departure doesn't put a kink in our plans.

These items are being developed by multiple teams, sure, but experience in running these sort of large programs matters.OTOH, these were kicked off during VKS tenure and its been almost 3-4 years now since we first heard of them so development should have proceeded & presumably strategic programs were prioritized in funding.

Karan M · Post by **Karan M** » 29 Jan 2015 22:01

Wonder whether this was picked up.

Interesting part is quoted, rest is a mish mash with confused verbiage about diff programs

PMO nod for Rs 6k-cr Seekers
Thursday, 04 September 2014 | Rakesh K Singh | New Delhi
DRDO to manufacture indigenous air missile defence systems

In keeping with its policy of prioritising indigenisation of Defence production, the PMO has given an “in-principle” approval for setting up of an Rs 6,000-crore facility by the Defence Research and Development Organisation (DRDO) for manufacture of Seeker, a key technology for air missile defence systems.

Prime Minister Narendra Modi gave the go ahead on July 1 for the setting up of a fabrication facility for production of the Seeker. The DRDO has been asked to move a Cabinet note for approval by the Cabinet Committee on Security (CCS). Following clearance from the CCS, the setting up of the proposed facility will be taken up by the lead research agency, an official said.

Presumably, a 6000 Crore facility (amount seems on the high side, $1Bn) would be used for all seekers. Not just one type or the other until & unless this report is mixing up the production value of seekers used across all programs.

http://www.dailypioneer.com/todays-news ... ekers.html

RoyG · Post by **RoyG** » 29 Jan 2015 22:04

jamwal wrote:This is not a real picture.

I meant the DRDO release. You can see the dummy missile being propelled out.

Karan M · Post by **Karan M** » 29 Jan 2015 22:09

jamwal wrote:This is not a real picture.

Just remembered. This may be from an animation of the Agni shown on news channels. The lack of details on the launcher hydraulics may be a give away, though the wheels appear fairly detailed.

Karan M · Post by **Karan M** » 29 Jan 2015 22:15

May be a real pic but I do think its from an animation, the trees for instance are not realistic and appear repeated, cant find the original NDTV article but the image name is "Agniapproved" on image search.. approved for release?

Arms control ayatollah fulminates on the dastardly SDRE making Russia/US standard accurate missiles - how dare they! (ignoring the politics some interesting quotes on hardware for MIRV, Agni variants from VK Saraswat and Chander)

http://fas.org/blogs/security/2013/10/indianmirv/

Quoted for image source

DRDO’s prototype missile canister-launcher, which looks similar to China’s DF-21 and DF-31 launchers, is intended to “drastically” shorten the launch-time of India’s nuclear missiles. Credit: DRDO.

Karan M · Post by **Karan M** » 30 Jan 2015 01:23

http://www.spsmai.com/exclusive/?id=197 ... .II-rocket

DRDO successfully tests Pinaka Mk.II rocket
By SP's Special Correspondent

January 28, 2015: In service and well-respected as a successful and potent indigenous weapon, the new and improved Pinaka Mk.II rocket, developed by the DRDO's Armament Research and Development Establishment (ARDE) in Pune, was successfully test fired last month at the Proof and Experimental Establishment (PXE) in Odisha last month. Rockets were fired for different ranges covering 20 km to 60 km. The Pinaka Mk.II is an advanced version of the unguided Pinaka multibarrel rocket system where the firing range has been enhanced to 60+ km from the existing 38 km. The rocket incorporates a high performance solid rocket propulsion system and advanced stabiliser system with six flat fin configuration developed by ARDE. The energetic propellant has been developed by High Energy Materials Research Laboratory (HEMRL), Pune. Pinaka Mk.II uses in-service warheads and fuzes and existing ground systems with minor modifications in Launcher, Loader Cum Replenishment (LCR) vehicle, Replenishment vehicle (RV) and Battery Command Post. "Demonstration of the strike capability of Pinaka Mk.II rocket beyond 60 km is a landmark in the field of unguided rocket artillery," says the DRDO. The Indian Army, which already operates Pinaka rocket regiments, has expressed deep interest in the enhanced range and accuracy Pinaka Mk.II and has thrown its full weight behind the indigenous programme.

Singha · Post by **Singha** » 30 Jan 2015 06:58

be interesting to see if there will be one lead foreign partner for the seeker facility like thales or elop or we shall source from all quarters.
atleast production machinery will need to be imported.
and what type of seeker optical or radar as well(BEL & ECIL already makes radar seekers...)

Singha · Post by **Singha** » 30 Jan 2015 07:00

there is one chipanda shrubs pic of the dummy cansister launch probably in hyderabad, the tube is much more massive