Indian Naval News & Discussion - 12 Oct 2013

Singha · Post by **Singha** » 26 Jan 2015 10:37

I have said this before. we have small domestic supply of uranium for our weapons and propulsion programs. it is not adviseable to divert to ship propulsion when the world over people are going with large gas turbine plants for such warships and its proven concept.

whatever little we have has got to be carefully parcelled out for weapons and n-subs.

NRao · Post by **NRao** » 26 Jan 2015 11:55

we may also add nuclear propulsion in carrier

I have said this before. we have small domestic supply of uranium for our weapons and propulsion programs. it is not adviseable to divert to ship propulsion when the world over people are going with large gas turbine plants for such warships and its proven concept.

whatever little we have has got to be carefully parcelled out for weapons and n-subs.

I think the dictating factor would be what else would need "electricity", besides for propulsion.

EMALS? A rail gun? Lasers? Have no idea. But if *any* of these are in the near future plans, then a good, steady, dependable supply of this juice is a necessity.

The other factor I would think that would influence the choice is how far does the IN want to travel. IOR or all the way to Japan and slightly beyond?

I just do not see India puttering around the IoR and relying on her missiles to dictate to China.

Glad NaMo won SL, that certainly helped. But one never knows. IF the focus is China then I would think there is a need for more than propulsion.

And, these carriers that host 30-40 planes will not do. IMHO.

Khalsa · Post by **Khalsa** » 26 Jan 2015 12:32

Shreeman wrote:

cheesy, annoying at times, but thoroughly enjoyable none the less. Posted before?

Damn that was good.
Especially good marketing at the end showing kids to school, wifey at the hospital and the YO giving the ring.

Perhaps the title sequence was cheesy but that was one fine doco with the chief articulating his vision really well.
Yah Yah

Karan M · Post by **Karan M** » 26 Jan 2015 17:10

Thakur_B wrote:The AET/TAL/Shyena had a long and laboured journey towards operational clearance with 14 years from experimental prototype to production clearance. Same thing with Varunastra/Takshak with their timelines now overlapping longer ranged Shakti thermal torpedo project. The torpedo programs are not the best performing programs of the DRDO.

Now TAL is being superseded by ALWT project, with a GPS/INS guided glider kit to go along with it for high altitude launch like Boeing HAAWC.

Labored because they are amongst the most challenging. How much time did it take Akash or any of the tactical programs considering the missile issues themselves? This is much the same thing and if anything these systems are more complex than the missiles since they have built in guidance and have constantly seen revision to keep them update (better processing f.e. for onboard electronics). The only difference is Nag etc get all the media attention but the torpedo programs are as challenging if not more.

TAL is being superceded because that was always the plan. Navy wanted a capability to match their imported LWTs and also what would meet their next gen offerings which are now in the market. TAL is now available for production to meet current reqs but the NG one will make sure the progress continues.

The thermal/electric heavy torpedos are in trials now & their clearance is but a matter of time. As they do and prove the baseline design and systems, expect IN to quickly clear Mk2s so the subsystems and design can be further finetuned.

This is the same path most successful platforms have been on. Mk1 is the breakthrough, then the other Mks start rolling out regularly.

Philip · Post by **Philip** » 26 Jan 2015 17:59

There were rumours of this not too long ago,now confirmed.

http://indiatoday.intoday.in/story/us-h ... 15420.html

US helping India keep tabs on Chinese submarines in Indian Ocean

IndiaToday.in New Delhi, January 26, 2015 |\

Type 091 Han-class submarine. (Photo: Wikipedia) The United States is regularly updating India on Chinese submarine deployments in the Indian Ocean. Last month, a US drone picked up a Chinese nuclear-powered attack submarine on the surface off Yemen. The information was relayed to the security establishment in New Delhi's South Block. China's deployment of submarines-three in the past year-in the Indian Ocean have worried Indian planners.

This intelligence cooperation with the US assumes significance in the light of the first-ever US-India joint strategic vision for the Asia-Pacific and Indian Ocean region unveiled in New Delhi by President Barack Obama and Prime Minister Modi, on January 25. China was not mentioned, but the vision document alluded to it by affirming 'the importance of safeguarding maritime security and ensuring freedom of navigation and over flight throughout the region, especially in the South China Sea.'

Indian intelligence officials say they are keen on intelligence relating to terrorism emanating from Pakistan on its western borders and Chinese military activities.

Defence officials in New Delhi said that the Type 091 Han-class was 'running on the surface' accompanied by an escort which appeared to be a replenishment ship. The elderly 1970s vintage Han class attack submarine, is believed to be part of the 19th anti piracy task force that has been in the Gulf of Aden since December 10. This is the third such deployment of a submarine by the PLAN since 2013. Earlier, the docking of a Song-class submarine in Colombo in September and November last year created ripples in New Delhi. The PLAN terms these submarine deployments as routine and part of its anti-piracy patrols, an assertion that naval planners take with a pinch of salt.

Jayadeva Ranade, former joint secretary R&AW expects intelligence on China, particularly naval intelligence, as one area where both India and the US could gainfully cooperate. "The information supplied regarding the Chinese submarine in Colombo and later in the Indian Ocean are examples. I'm sure there is more that has been shared by the US about the route taken by the submarine, capabilities displayed, but I am not too sure whether the exchange of intelligence regarding our land borders with China has increased," he says.

The appearance of Chinese subs in the IOR more frequently lies in the fact that Gwadar is being dssignated as a virtual Chinese base after having been 'ceded" to the PLAN by Pak.The second base that would've also been "ceded" by stealth was the Colombo Port City land to have been leased out to China for 99 years.The defeat of the Rajapakse familia has been a huge blow to PRC/PLAN plans as even Hambantota will now be off limits to PLAN naval vessels if the Indo-Lanka relationship walks the talk.

The Chinese will therefore intensify their efforts in the Maldives.A Muslim nation,expect the JV between Pak and China to swing into operation here. Naval facilities along the Burmese coast is another intention with the construction of the new land route and pipeline linking the two nations in full swing. India has to now engage itself meaningfully with the Maldivian regime,and our recent supply of drinking water should have earned us significant goodwill.The Maldivians will also not have forgotten how India scotched the attempted invasion and coup by Lankan Tamil entities in the late '80s.

NRao · Post by **NRao** » 26 Jan 2015 18:31

NaMo has not shied away from doing the right "stuff".

A major data point is he/India no longer are confining themselves to the IoR pond. This is perhaps the major reason for help with carriers too.

Philip wrote:There were rumours of this not too long ago,now confirmed.

US helping India keep tabs on Chinese submarines in Indian Ocean

.....................................

This intelligence cooperation with the US assumes significance in the light of the first-ever US-India joint strategic vision for the Asia-Pacific and Indian Ocean region unveiled in New Delhi by President Barack Obama and Prime Minister Modi, on January 25. China was not mentioned, but the vision document alluded to it by affirming 'the importance of safeguarding maritime security and ensuring freedom of navigation and over flight throughout the region, especially in the South China Sea.'

.....................................

The appearance of Chinese subs in the IOR more frequently lies in the fact that Gwadar is being dssignated as a virtual Chinese base after having been 'ceded" to the PLAN by Pak.The second base that would've also been "ceded" by stealth was the Colombo Port City land to have been leased out to China for 99 years.The defeat of the Rajapakse familia has been a huge blow to PRC/PLAN plans as even Hambantota will now be off limits to PLAN naval vessels if the Indo-Lanka relationship walks the talk.

Chalk that win to NaMo. That RAW guy getting kicked out of Colombo must be a feature in his cap.

The Chinese will therefore intensify their efforts in the Maldives.A Muslim nation,expect the JV between Pak and China to swing into operation here. Naval facilities along the Burmese coast is another intention with the construction of the new land route and pipeline linking the two nations in full swing. India has to now engage itself meaningfully with the Maldivian regime,and our recent supply of drinking water should have earned us significant goodwill.The Maldivians will also not have forgotten how India scotched the attempted invasion and coup by Lankan Tamil entities in the late '80s.

Actually Thailand is perhaps the next hotspot. Even more important than Maldives/Myanmar.

Also important is wining Africa.

Recall that the UK + France have taken over some of the responsibility (from the US) in the Gulf. Similarly India is the player in this region. I am dead sure now that the Aussies and Japan will carve out other parts of Asia-Pacific.

Aligning between the Pivot and Act East.

Prem Kumar · Post by **Prem Kumar** » 26 Jan 2015 20:30

+1 Karan. Unlike tactical missiles, the torpedo program world-over is a very hush-hush affair. Even ranges are not disclosed. So, one doesn't hear the actual challenges that have to be overcome. The sea is a much harsher environment. I think we will see success/induction soon, but it will be a low-key affair

Karan M · Post by **Karan M** » 26 Jan 2015 22:47

I actually didn't track the torpedo stuff at one time and then did a comparison. What was surprising to me was how much more complex the torpedos were, than the missiles in that not only did they face the same design etc issues in terms of agility, maneuverability, requirements etc (albeit keeping the sea factor and its constraints in mind), but that the subsystems were more comprehensive than in some of our missiles being developed. High energy batteries, actuators, plus warhead but also thermal engines, motors, propeller design, intelligent onboard controllers and seekers plus alternative guidance options. And all the stuff has been handled with minimum fuss and no leaks about import alternatives etc, with all due credit to the Navy.

arshyam · Post by **arshyam** » 26 Jan 2015 23:12

http://indiatoday.intoday.in/story/us-h ... 15420.html

US helping India keep tabs on Chinese submarines in Indian Ocean

IndiaToday.in New Delhi, January 26, 2015 |\

"The information supplied regarding the Chinese submarine in Colombo and later in the Indian Ocean are examples. I'm sure there is more that has been shared by the US about the route taken by the submarine, capabilities displayed, but I am not too sure whether the exchange of intelligence regarding our land borders with China has increased," he says.

This bolded wording sounds like we learned about the Chinese subs in Colombo from the Americans, but considering this is India Today, I will take it with a pinch of salt. Nevertheless, we shouldn't be relying on the US to know what's going on our backyard, especially when we know the Americans aren't above playing a double game and are themselves interested in getting a toehold in the subcontinent. I hope we have better humint in SL, and good elint to cover the northern IOR at least. Cooperation is all fine, but keep building our own assets wherever possible. We burnt our hands with the Headley incident once.

Philip wrote:India has to now engage itself meaningfully with the Maldivian regime,and our recent supply of drinking water should have earned us significant goodwill.The Maldivians will also not have forgotten how India scotched the attempted invasion and coup by Lankan Tamil entities in the late '80s.

Philip sir, especially with NaMo and Doval-ji at the helm, I doubt the Maldivians would go ahead with too much pappi-jhappi with the Chinese. Rajapakse's defeat in SL will act as a deterrent. We should capitalize on the current momentum and get a proper IN base in one of their islands, and station some big assets out of the new naval station Lakshadweep to keep a benign eye on things. Carrots and sticks onlee.

shaun · Post by **shaun** » 26 Jan 2015 23:13

As the discussion is on torpedo , some "jeff with an idiotic head" wrote his childhood fantasy , where he depicted supercavitating torpedoes . In what direction is this tech. moving ?

Prem Kumar · Post by **Prem Kumar** » 26 Jan 2015 23:38

Not a fantasy: its an old concept. Called Shkval torpedo. Its still in use with upgraded versions. Shorter range, hence used also as anti-torpedo torpedoes http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/VA-111_Shkval

shaun · Post by **shaun** » 26 Jan 2015 23:45

^^^
i know about shkval , the fantasy is the scenario he have depicted. have things move more after shkval is my question .

Neshant · Post by **Neshant** » 27 Jan 2015 10:44

Deleted

Philip · Post by **Philip** » 27 Jan 2015 11:46

The US would be very happy passing on info about the whereabouts of PLAN assets for two reasons.One,it brings us into the anti-Chinese scheme of things,and two in attempting to monitor the PLAN assets,the US will also get a pretty good idea of our tactics and capabilities. I don't doubt the report which must've been based upon sound info.

The interesting fact is that the Chinese sub was found on the surface,most unusual for any n-sub operating far from home. With no requirement for refueling,one can only hazard guesses as to what was required from the support vessel. Sometimes it could be a v.sick sailor who urgently needs medical treatment. perhaps the Han sub ran out of its stock of instant noodles,or wanted some fresh seafood for its submariners!

member_28840 · Post by **member_28840** » 27 Jan 2015 12:01

^^ Underway replenishment for food and other consumables seems the likely scenario. Maybe they just wanted to test their capabilities to replenish and support a sub so far away from home.

Viv S · Post by **Viv S** » 27 Jan 2015 21:59

John wrote:
Viv S wrote:- The J-15B entering service next year, is likely to be better than both. And by 2025, a naval variant of the J-31 will probably be entering service.
Even with improved thrust J-15B is still hampered operating from Ski-jump you essentially have larger airframe carrying about same payload and range of 29K. Flanker themselves are notoriously maintenance heavy as we are finding out with MKI, which might be fine operating from land but from the Sea? Su-33 abysmal track record with Russian navy in terms of flight hours and accidents is testament to that. It would interesting to see how J-15B works out for the Chinese. As for J-31 can't comment on that.

Its hard to get concrete information on any Chinese system but from what I've been able to gather, the J-15B will field an improved EW system, an AESA radar, aerodynamic refinements, RCS reduction, MAWS, and a better thrust-to-weight ratio, the last of which is expect to improve the payload-range equation.

How the TWR will be improved hasn't been clarified but I suspect it has something to do with the Saturn 117S which will apparently be shipped to China in advance of the Su-35S.

SNaik · Post by **SNaik** » 28 Jan 2015 13:25

Shaun wrote:^^^
i know about shkval , the fantasy is the scenario he have depicted. have things move more after shkval is my question .

Germans were claiming some success with supercavitation. Nevertheless, APR-3ME looks a better way to do the job. Top speed is up to 70 knots and it has a guidance system. India may already have them on Il-38 and Ka-28.

shaun · Post by **shaun** » 28 Jan 2015 15:08

SNaik wrote:
Shaun wrote:^^^
i know about shkval , the fantasy is the scenario he have depicted. have things move more after shkval is my question .
Germans were claiming some success with supercavitation. Nevertheless, APR-3ME looks a better way to do the job. Top speed is up to 70 knots and it has a guidance system. India may already have them on Il-38 and Ka-28.

this acoustic homing torpedo new for me , thanks

VinodTK · Post by **VinodTK** » 28 Jan 2015 17:54

U.S. and India to Cooperate on Aircraft Carrier Technology

Neela · Post by **Neela** » 28 Jan 2015 21:18

This was forwarded to me from someone who has been working on the project.
Fast Interceptor craft for the Indian Navy.

NRao · Post by **NRao** » 29 Jan 2015 06:35

Another boot falls:

India asks Japan if it’s interested in Rs 50,000 crore submarine project

Russia, France, Germany and Spain, all better watch out. They may have to contend with Japan in the race to supply submarines to India. In keeping with their expanding strategic partnership, the Modi government has asked the Shinzo Abe administration whether it would be interested in the over Rs 50,000 crore project to build six stealth submarines in India.

With Japan recently ending its decades old self-imposed arms export embargo, New Delhi has forwarded "a proposal" to Tokyo to "consider the possibility" of making its latest diesel-electric Soryu-class submarines in India, say sources.

This "feeler" dovetails into PM Narendra Modi's strategic outreach to Japan, as well as Australia and the US, since he took over last year. The possible sale of Japanese US-2i ShinMayva amphibious aircraft to the Indian Navy is already being discussed. Australia, too, is considering the Soryu submarines to replace its ageing Collins-class vessels.

The US, on its part, has been pushing for greater defence cooperation among India, Japan and Australia to counter China's assertiveness in the Asia-Pacific region. The recent Obama-Modi summit led to the "joint strategic vision for Asia-Pacific and Indian Ocean Region" with a direct reference to South China Sea, where China is locked in territorial disputes with its neighbours. Both Japan and Australia are also keen to participate in the annual Indo-US Malabar naval exercise on a regular basis, which has riled China in the past.

But the 4,200-tonne Soryu submarines, manufactured by Mitsubishi Heavy Industries and Kawasaki Heavy Industries, may not meet Indian requirements. Japan will also be just one of the contenders for the mega programme, called Project-75-India, if it agrees to throw its hat into the ring.

Countries like France (ship-builder DCNS), Germany (HDW), Russia (Rosoboronexport) and Spain (Navantia) are already girding up, with the first three having the experience of building submarines for India.

The six new submarines, with both land-attack missile capabilities and air-independent propulsion for greater underwater endurance, are to be built at an Indian shipyard with foreign collaboration. "If Japan is really interested, it will have to form a joint venture with an Indian public/private shipyard," said the source.

The Modi government wants to kick-start Project-75-I, which has not taken off due to politico-bureaucratic apathy since being accorded "acceptance of necessity" in November 2007, in the backdrop of India's rapidly depleting conventional submarine fleet.

A high-level committee, led by Vice Admiral AV Subhedar, is slated to submit a report to the defence ministry next month on the domestic shipyards which are capable of submarine-manufacturing. "The tender or RFP (request for proposal) to the shipyards should be issued this year," he said.

The Soryu submarines, incidentally, were inducted into the Japanese maritime self-defence force from 2009 onwards. Already equipped with AIP, Japan is now working to install lithium-ion battery propulsion systems in its next-generation of the Soryu submarines.

ramana · Post by **ramana** » 29 Jan 2015 06:50

NRao, IAF has been operating in SCS for a long, long time. Part of Look East program.

South India houses those long range planes.

Rupesh · Post by **Rupesh** » 29 Jan 2015 08:16

[quote="NRao"]Another boot falls:

India asks Japan if it’s interested in Rs 50,000 crore submarine project

[quote]

looks like Singha's dream is coming true.

rohitvats · Post by **rohitvats** » 29 Jan 2015 09:38

Rupesh wrote:
NRao wrote:Another boot falls:India asks Japan if it’s interested in Rs 50,000 crore submarine project
looks like Singha's dream is coming true.

The best part is that our 'DREAMS' are not in isolation or fantasies of jingoes....there are professionals who think on similar lines. However, it takes proper government and policy framework to implement such dreams.

This keeps on getting better and better!

As I said earlier - all the effort I made to travel 500 kms one way to vote for NM was worth it and much-much more.

member_28840 · Post by **member_28840** » 29 Jan 2015 10:01

^^ Thank you for exercising your right to vote. I too am glad to finally have someone at the helm who puts nation before self. Looking at the big picture we can see national interests converging, and the security quad beginning to make a comeback. Exiting times we live in.

Here is a quick question / survey

With the Soryu moving away from AIP and the IN moving towards it, what can we expect in the P75(I) ?

nash · Post by **nash** » 29 Jan 2015 10:29

rohitvats wrote:
The best part is that our 'DREAMS' are not in isolation or fantasies of jingoes....there are professionals who think on similar lines. However, it takes proper government and policy framework to implement such dreams.

This keeps on getting better and better!

As I said earlier - all the effort I made to travel 500 kms one way to vote for NM was worth it and much-much more.

Mine was ~1600 KM

. But it is really as good as it gets. Next step might be Japanese co-operation in helicopter carrier. All of this decision making and policy changes with in 1 year, things are moving much faster than expected, hopefully IN concluded this P-75I much faster than IAF's MMRCA saga.

Singha · Post by **Singha** » 29 Jan 2015 10:35

the Hyuga class do represent option if we do not want a really big juan carlos/Izumo type design.
for this breed of combatant I am in favour of Hyuga sized vessels in more number as they are not really tip-of-spear strike carrier roles (which need unitary mass and 35 knot top speed to keep pace with powerful DDG/FFGs) but more area coverage and sea control ASW ships where its always better to have 3 in the water , vs one USN sized uber ship. south korea dokdo is similar right sized for our needs.

with a good strong fleet of naval dhruv for utility and SH60 for the ASM/ASW mission and KA31 for AEW , plus room for the command staff & C3I containers of the admiral, these can function as lead ships of surface action groups and provide good organic ASW cover as well.

orders from Aus and India could make their sub line financially more viable. high unit cost due to no exports and lot of domestic systems imposes a crippling burden on their budgets.

excellent move by GOI to formally put the ball in their court and see if they bite.

Philip · Post by **Philip** » 29 Jan 2015 11:15

If you read one of my posts in the Intl.Naval td. the Soryu falls short of performance of German U-boats and the Collins class itself in some aspects. A contest is most likely in Oz as there is strong opposition to simply delivering the sub into the hands of the Japanese.In the P-75I programme,one of these 3 is bound to be the winner.The Germans,French or Russian because we are already familiar with their subs,sub-tech.,trg.etc. Moreover,as is being expressed in the Oz media,the Japanese have never exported mil. eqpt. before and support,etc., is a Q mark in a ful TOT. The IN will then be saddled with 4 conventional sub inventories/tech,as at least two of the U-boats can be upgraded. In the case of Oz,they right now operate only the Collins class,with US inputs,that too not very successfully as they have an acute manpower problem.

Once we operate the first batch of ATV SSBNs,plus Akula SSGNs,with our own SSNs being planned based upon the ATV programme,the IN will have its hands full operating the 3 conventional sub classes plus the 2/ 3 N-boat classes.

I would look at this request to the Japanese more to see what their subs are capable of ,examine their tech and specs,especially as Oz may acquire them! It is most unlikely that the IN will operate the same sub type as Oz.

Something for us to chew upon.We too have a considerable arsenal of anti-ship/land attack cruise missiles and land based NKIs,plus IN MIG-29Ks. However,the huge number of PLAN cruise missiles in the inventory and rate of production is a worry when deliveries to all-weather friends all-weather friends" like Pak takes place. In the future,surface ships will be hard pushed to defend themselves against salvoes of such missiles.This is why an increased number /% of subs should be in the IN's fleet.

http://www.wantchinatimes.com/news-subc ... 0125000034

Anti-ship cruise missile is China's deadliest weapon: US expert

Staff Reporter 2015-01-25 09:24 (GMT+8)
The C-802, the export version of the Chinese YJ-83 missile displayed in front of a Pakistan Air Force JF-17 fighter. (Internet photo)

Anti-ship cruise missiles like the YJ-83 will pose the largest threat to the United States and its security partners in the Western Pacific, Associate professor Lyle Goldstein from the US Naval War College writes in an article for the Washington-based National Interest magazine on Jan. 22.

Goldstein said the outcome of the Falklands War between Britain and Argentina in 1982 would have been different if Argentina possessed between 50 to 100 Exocet anti-ship cruise missiles. However, it lost the war because it only had five Exocets to take on the British task force sent to reclaim the islands in the South Atlantic following the Argentine invasion. China has devoted huge resources in the development of anti-ship cruise missiles over the last 30 years to prepare for a potential conflict off its coast.

Equipped with sophisticated radars and electronic countermeasures, the large fleet of land-based aircraft of the People's Liberation Army Navy pose a great threat to regional stability, Goldstein said, adding that the PLA Navy has the capability to launch an "air-sea battle" with Chinese characteristics. The arrival of 24 Russian-built Su-30MK2 fighters in 2004 for the first time has given Beijing a credible "air-sea battle" strategy.

With a combat radius of 1,300 kilometers, the Su-30MK2 can fly beyond the first island chain, extending from Alaska to the Philippines. The H-6 strategic bomber and the JH-7 tactical bomber form the foundation of the Chinese Navy’s tactical strike force against sea targets. However, the most dangerous weapon system of all is the YJ-83 subsonic anti-ship cruise missile.

Citing a survey from the October 2014 issue of Chinese-language defense magazine Shipborne Weapons, Goldstein said that the YJ-83 is better than the imported Russian-made supersonic KH-31 in certain situations with respect to combat effectiveness despite the fact that it is subsonic. With a range of 150 km, the export version of the YJ-83 made headlines when Lebanon struck and achieved a mission kill against an Israeli corvette in 2006.

Designed as China's first-generation anti-ship cruise missile, the article stated that the YJ-83 is not enough to allow the PLA Navy to defeat the US and Japanese forces in combat. It indicated that two types of second-generation anti-ship cruise missiles are under development. The first one is the YJ-12 supersonic cruise missile with a speed of Mach 3. The second is the YJ-100 subsonic anti-ship cruise missile with a range of 800 km. Both are designed to "outgun" the US carrier battle group.

Singha · Post by **Singha** » 29 Jan 2015 17:14

no public videos exist inside the soryu.

here is one inside the previous Oyashio class
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SBnA3FQwfyo

impressive video of a soryu coming in on a windy day
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xIIDcyxYY8o

dockside awesome footage of various ships moving around incl a soryu sailing out
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7TtYxc-i7AA

Philip · Post by **Philip** » 29 Jan 2015 18:41

Interesting titbit from the USNI website reg. Adm.Gorshkov FFGs for the RuN,which may get delayed due to Russian engines reqd. to replace UKR ones now unavailable.

“Under the Russian government’s import substitution [program], it is understood that NPO Saturn is supposed to develop the capability to produce and test the M90FR by 2017,” reported Jane’s.

The shift could lead to delivery delays for the third and fourth ships in the class – Admiral Golovko and Admiral Isakov – both currently under construction by the Severnaya Verf shipyard in St. Petersburg, Russia.

The lack of Ukrainian cooperation could also affect the supply of spare parts and the Russian plans for maintenance and sustainment of the turbines.

While Russia’s ability to design construct nuclear submarines is second only to the U.S., its surface construction enterprise has suffered since the collapse of the Soviet Union.

The frigates are designed as multi-mission combatants, have a super structure built from composite materials and are the first in the Russian surface fleet planned to field the BrahMos hypersonic anti-ship missile (ASM).
Lead ship, Admiral Gorshkov, is currently undergoing testing and could enter the fleet as early as this year, according to Russian media reports.

The Adm,Grigorivich FGS are sister ships of our Talwar designs which may also field the BMos missile.

Aditya G · Post by **Aditya G** » 29 Jan 2015 22:17

^ have we received all gas turbines from Kiev viz Project 15B?

member_23370 · Post by **member_23370** » 29 Jan 2015 22:53

Soryu is a non starter for IN. I think its just a negotiation tactic to get better deal.

Ajit.C · Post by **Ajit.C** » 29 Jan 2015 23:11

It is sad indeed that we have developed or made a nuclear sub but not a conventional sub. Seems conventional sub tech is complicated than nuclear.

Cosmo_R · Post by **Cosmo_R** » 30 Jan 2015 03:49

Bheeshma wrote:Soryu is a non starter for IN. I think its just a negotiation tactic to get better deal.

OKAY!

Cosmo_R · Post by **Cosmo_R** » 30 Jan 2015 03:53

Singha wrote:..
orders from Aus and India could make their sub line financially more viable. high unit cost due to no exports and lot of domestic systems imposes a crippling burden on their budgets.

excellent move by GOI to formally put the ball in their court and see if they bite.

Yup! well played NaMo

The Japanese are pitching their ASW planes to the UK

http://www.reuters.com/article/2015/01/ ... WG20150107

Let's see if Abe can move to sell/build subs in India as they are willing to do to OZ.

brar_w · Post by **brar_w** » 30 Jan 2015 04:12

The UK has crews training on the P-8's, and if they go in for the Japanese platform they would have to pay for integration with the USN fleet as well as train for interoperability since they would be operating together in a lot of scenarios. It is therefore extremely unlikely that the UK would go in for any platform other than either the P-8 or the MSA.

NRao · Post by **NRao** » 30 Jan 2015 06:07

The P-1 and P-8 should be "integrated"?

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/c ... n_2014.JPG

They both operate in Japan.

brar_w · Post by **brar_w** » 30 Jan 2015 06:20

viewtopic.php?f=3&t=4752&p=1787886#p1787886

Mort Walker · Post by **Mort Walker** » 30 Jan 2015 08:50

brar_w wrote:The UK has crews training on the P-8's, and if they go in for the Japanese platform they would have to pay for integration with the USN fleet as well as train for interoperability since they would be operating together in a lot of scenarios. It is therefore extremely unlikely that the UK would go in for any platform other than either the P-8 or the MSA.

The P-8 is essentially a Raytheon surveillance system platform. Raytheon is unparalleled in this area. If the IN P-8i could be integrated with the Brahmos (which will never happen), it would be a kick-ass standoff attack platform and cause a lot of people to shit in their pants.

rkhanna · Post by **rkhanna** » 30 Jan 2015 09:45

U.S. and India to Cooperate on Aircraft Carrier Technology

"Included in a joint Sunday statement, released by the White House, was a clause called for the creation of working group to “explore” carrier technology sharing but gave few details on the effort."

"Some of that U.S. help could be directed toward helping India include nuclear power in its second homegrown carrier."

"Other American technology wants from the Indians could include aircraft carrier catapults.

http://news.usni.org/2015/01/27/u-s-ind ... technology