Sunni Terrorist Fragments of Unstable Pakistan - 1 Feb 2015

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Re: Sunni Terrorist Fragments of Unstable Pakistan - 1 Feb 2

Postby Peregrine » 02 Feb 2015 04:31

matrimc wrote:Is it Pakistan-China Economic corridor or psec - pakistan sino economic corridor? (I know it should be Sino paki economic corridor but for convenience)


matrimc Ji :

It is the CHINA-PAKISTAN ECONOMIC CORRIDOR

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Re: Sunni Terrorist Fragments of Unstable Pakistan - 1 Feb 2

Postby Vayutuvan » 02 Feb 2015 04:51

I know. Just wanted to introduce P-SEC :) crowd who would be gung-ho for such a corridor.

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Re: Sunni Terrorist Fragments of Unstable Pakistan - 1 Feb 2

Postby Hari Seldon » 02 Feb 2015 05:09

Meanwhile, in news intended specifically to relieve Pak's congenital constipation...

India pushing for China support on UNSC ahead of FM's meet (India Today)

P.S. Fat chance we'll get it. The aim IMO is to see if PRC can stay overtly neutral and abstain or something (while working overtime covertly to trip things up completely)...

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Sunni Terrorist Fragments of Unstable Pakistan - 1 Feb 2015

Postby Peregrine » 02 Feb 2015 05:17

Competing with India

US President Barack Obama’s visit to India as chief guest for the country’s Republic Day celebrations has evoked amusing reactions in Pakistan. Of course, there is peeve at the fact that the US president has chosen to visit India and bypass Pakistan. However, gone are the days when the world treated India and Pakistan on a par and foreign dignitaries considered it a diplomatic necessity to visit Islamabad when visiting New Delhi and vice versa.
Islamabad has accepted the situation as a fait accompli;
however, American presidential visits remain an exception. Earlier, when former president Clinton visited India, Pakistani diplomats moved heaven and earth to implore him to add Pakistan to his itinerary; and he obliged with a four-hour visit.
Currently, the Pakistan Foreign Office has adopted a responsible position and refrained from any comment. A section of the media has, however, gone overboard with hysteria and exaggerated pique, particularly by overnight-born experts — ex-generals, stand-alone politicians, news analysts, etc. — who are smarting the most on account of President Obama’s India visit sans Pakistan.
Pakistan has to realise that world affairs are not carried out according to the figments of imagination of the country’s officially-sponsored intelligentsia. The nations of the world are engaged in serious relationships based on trade and security. No world leader will visit Pakistan if there is nothing substantial to talk about. No one has the time to add a day to their route merely to pander to Islamabad’s pretensions about parity with India.
Pakistan will have to accept hard facts and introspect the actual situation.
And the fact is that Pakistan has little weight in the international arena, politically and economically. Politically, it is viewed as a nuisance at best and a threat to international security at worst. Economically, it is considered a basket case and a seemingly eternal candidate for bailouts. And it has little international sympathy for its claims of terrorism victimhood, as it is viewed as being bitten by the snakes it has itself bred in its backyard.
If Pakistan is desirous of being taken seriously by the world community, it will have to move on two fronts. One, it will have to be honest and serious about eliminating all forms of terrorism, including the mindset that considers terrorism legitimate. Pakistan cannot expect to be respected when murderers, a la Mumtaz Qadri, are treated as heroes and government prosecution lawyers are reluctant to proceed against him. Pakistan will also have to produce a new narrative on Kashmir, as the only audience for the old narrative is Pakistan itself.
Pakistan’s knee-jerk response to the emerging India-US strategic partnership is to adopt China as an alternative patron-saint. This move is abjectly unwise. Firstly, no one respects camp-followers of one power or the other. And secondly, reliance on Chinese shoulders to lean on may prove to be unstable as, after all, China, too, is cognisant of India’s rise and will not construct its regional foreign policy to suit the needs of a declining entity that is incessantly in a state of political and economic crisis.
The second front on which Pakistan will need to effect changes is to adopt economic and social development as the primary agenda of the state and second grade the external security agenda. It has to be accepted and incorporated — in belief and policymaking — in all policy corridors — that Pakistan’s security essentially lies in its economic strength and not in its nuclear arsenal or in military posturing. This reassessment will require significant restructuring of economic policy.
Pakistan can never compete with India in terms of its size, population and national income. If Pakistan’s per capita income is twice that of India and the poverty rate is half, a resultantly strong purchasing power will create a proportionately larger market size and the world will take the country seriously and treat it with respect. Pakistan’s balance of payments — sans foreign aid — will also have to generate the surpluses to be able to assist smaller neighbours like Afghanistan, Tajikistan, Nepal, Bangladesh, Sri Lanka and the Maldives. These are achievable objectives if the necessary political will is mobilised.
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Re: Sunni Terrorist Fragments of Unstable Pakistan - 1 Feb 2

Postby shiv » 02 Feb 2015 06:08

KJo wrote:
JE Menon wrote:>>His followers are apparently great supporters of PM Modi

I had lunch with an Ismaili and a Sunni about a week ago. Can confirm the above from the Ismaili side. Don't know about great supporter, but certainly positive comments about Modi, the Obama visit, etc. etc. The Sunni (a woman) went ballistic (on a tangent) about how nasty the Americans were, and they were controlled by Jews, etc - the usual claptrap.

But we must keep in mind how close the Aga Khan has been to the Pakistanis for decades.


I am wary of these guys, they now see that Modi can take India to great heights and is not the "Muslim Killer" that they had been sold on, so they could be back to their Al-Taqqiyya ways.
I think the Govt should only give refuge to people following Indic religions. Abrahamic religions can go to other places where their "brothers" will welcome them. If they want to move to India, then Ghar Wapsi should be the only way. Of course, this has to be done through unofficial channels.

Inevitably - there will be some migration from Shitistan to India showing as always that Muslims are more safe among Hindus than they will be among Muslims or Christians. That is part of the small heartedness of cowardly dark skinned Hindoos who pray in narrow dark places.

For us in India I think it is important to know our own history that was covered up by 5 generations of pseudoseculars. There is recorded history of the number of temples destroyed by Islamic kings, along with Hindus murdered and women taken as part of zenanas. This would normally make the blood of any Hindu boil. There is no reason why Hindus should tolerate people who want to practice this sort of violent and murderous religion. Muslims who come to India need to understand that their safety in India is entirely because Hindus accept the idea of difference in worship and allow people to survive. This should be understood both by Indian Muslims who sponsor migration and by any potential Muslim migrants from Pakistan to India. It is Hindu culture that allows them to wear their own clothes, worship their God and call to prayer 5 times a day. It is not cowardliness. Anyone who mistakes Hindu behaviour should never ever escape being taught what is right and what is wrong.

I do suggest making a list of Muslim excesses against Hindus and keeping the information freely available. It's not as if Hindus will run riot. The decades after 1947 and the direction Pakistan has gone shows that violence is intrinsic to Islam. There is nothing secular about accepting violence. It must end and it it will not end until we admit that is has happened in the past and still happens today in Pakistan, a country created by Muslims for Muslims

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Re: Sunni Terrorist Fragments of Unstable Pakistan - 1 Feb 2

Postby Cosmo_R » 02 Feb 2015 06:26

Hari Seldon wrote:Meanwhile, in news intended specifically to relieve Pak's congenital constipation...

India pushing for China support on UNSC ahead of FM's meet (India Today)

P.S. Fat chance we'll get it. The aim IMO is to see if PRC can stay overtly neutral and abstain or something (while working overtime covertly to trip things up completely)...


Ironic no? JLN ceded the SC council seat to China. Now we are are trying to claw our way back in on something we could have had. All for to be able to veto any UNSC resolution on Kashmir that JLN proposed as a plebiscite until overtaken by events.

The termite family has really undermined us.

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Re: Sunni Terrorist Fragments of Unstable Pakistan - 1 Feb 2

Postby Prem » 02 Feb 2015 07:11

http://www.thenews.com.pk/Todays-News-9 ... f-delusion
The road of self-delusion

Obama’s recently concluded visit to India suggests tacit US acquiescence in, if not blessing for, India’s policy of trying to overawe Pakistan through a show – and possibly the exercise – of its military prowess. In an article last week in an Indian newspaper, Daniel Markey, senior fellow at the Council on Foreign Relations, called it a strategy of “peace through strength” and likened it to that followed by Reagan towards Moscow, which is credited with having brought about the collapse of the Soviet Union.
Markey writes approvingly of Modi’s sabre-rattling and expresses the opinion that a “firm display of India’s strength” has the “potential” to “finally [resolve] the India-Pakistan dispute”. India already enjoys tremendous advantages over Pakistan, he writes, and “could turn the existing imbalance into a rout” for Pakistan by “[outracing] Pakistan on the nuclear front” and by accelerated conventional force acquisitions. Investment by India in nuclear capabilities, such as submarine-launched missiles and missile defence systems, he says, would prove extraordinarily costly for Pakistan to match or overcome. In the area of conventional weaponry, he suggests, India could “engineer a real technological leap forward by landing breakthrough deals with US defence manufacturers”.As Omar Abdullah joyously told the world on Twitter, the only place in which Kashmir figured during Obama’s visit was on the menu :rotfl: at the banquet for the visiting president, which featured two Kashmiri specialties: veg haak and mutton gushtaba. Nevertheless, Special Assistant Fatemi said in a TV interview that he saw a glimmer (halki si jhalak) of hope on Kashmir in Obama’s speech on the last day of his visit in which he urged India to promote religious tolerance. Our capacity for self-deception obviously knows no bounds.Last but not least, it is remarkable that the adviser’s statement expressing concern at understandings reached between the US and India during Obama’s visit makes no mention of the statement of the two leaders on a ‘Joint Strategic Vision of the Asia Pacific and Indian Ocean Region’. Our government evidently finds nothing disquieting in the US support for a larger Indian role in the ‘Indo-Pacific region’ stretching from Africa to East Asia and fails to see that it is aimed largely at neutralising China’s influence and at isolating Pakistan in the region. Nor is the government perturbed at the fact that Washington is pushing for India’s admission into APEC while keeping the door closed on Pakistan.The explanation for this monumental strategic blindness was given by Sartaj in a speech last Thursday. “Any apparent worries that some observers may have generated” over “US keenness to push India towards its Asia Pivot in the eastern half of Asia” were unwarranted, he pontificated, because “Pakistan is an important player in the Western half of Asia, which includes Afghanistan, Iran and the whole of Central and West Asia”. “As one of the few stable and well-functioning states in the Muslim world”, he went on, “Pakistan’s role in promoting stability and in facilitating connectivity in this important part of Asia, is indispensable and well-recognised not only by USA but also by Russia and China.” Our policymakers are obviously not living in the real world. The government’s capacity to lull itself into a false sense of security is simply staggering.

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Re: Sunni Terrorist Fragments of Unstable Pakistan - 1 Feb 2

Postby Prem » 02 Feb 2015 07:19

http://www.dawn.com/news/1160992/commen ... y-paradigm

Hare We Go again ;Comment: A new foreign policy paradigm

Husain Haqqani


Pakistan’s attitude towards India, and the world’s major powers, is shaped by ideology instead of being based on pragmatism. Pakistan sees India as an existential enemy, as it did soon after the bloody partition of 1947. Textbooks still tell Pakistani children that Hindu India threatens Islamic Pakistan and seeks to terminate its existence.Seeking security against a much larger neighbour is a rational objective but seeking parity with it on a constant basis is not. The India-Pakistan equation should have changed fundamentally after both countries acquired nuclear weapons. Deterrence and Mutually Assured Destruction usually freezes conflicts but that cannot happen if one side is deologically committed to seeking resolution of disputes before anything else.With nuclear weapons, Pakistan does not need to feel insecure about being militarily overrun by India. The notion of an existential threat to Pakistan is now only psycho-political and ideological. As for Jammu and Kashmir, one need not deny the sense of injustice felt by Pakistanis to point out that it might not be an issue that can be resolved in the foreseeable future. Jihadi militancy since 1989 has failed to wrest Kashmir for Pakistan from India as has war and military confrontation.Any hope of effectively internationalising the Kashmir issue, too, should be realistically evaluated in Islamabad. The last effective UN resolution on Kashmir was passed by the Security Council in 1957, when the United Nations had 82 members. Last year, with 193 members, Pakistan’s prime minister was the only world leader who mentioned Jammu and Kashmir at the UN General Assembly.For several decades, Pakistan was able to leverage its geographic location through alliance with the United States in a bipolar world. Ironically, India and not Pakistan was deemed to be America’s natural ally. A 1949 Pentagon report described India as “the natural political and economic center of South Asia” and the country with which the United States had greater congruence of interests. India, however, opted for non-alignment in the stand-off between the West and the Soviet bloc, arguing that it needed to benefit from both sides. Pakistan, a new state unsure of its future and searching for aid to bolster its economy and security, stepped in to become part of US-led military alliances.
The US-Pakistan relationship was transactional. Pakistan assisted the US in the Cold War and in return, the US provided much needed economic and military aid ($40 billion to date since 1950). American assistance convinced Pakistan’s leaders that external allies could compensate for Pakistan’s inherent difference in size with India.In actual fact, Pakistan’s old-school diplomats, politicians and military thinkers are upset that they cannot count on the United States as the equaliser in their quest for equivalence with India. China is already a close ally of Pakistan and cannot tip the balance in Pakistan’s favour on its own.Why not change the goal from seeking parity with India to ensuring national security and economic development? All nations have sovereign equality in international law but realpolitik demands acknowledgement of the difference of size between nations.Pakistan is India’s rival in real terms only as much as Belgium could rival France or Germany. India’s population is six times larger than Pakistan while its economy is 10 times bigger. Notwithstanding problems of poverty and corruption (which Pakistan also faces), India’s $2 trillion economy has managed consistent growth whereas Pakistan’s $245 billion economy has grown in spurts.India is expanding by most measures of national power while Pakistan has been able to keep pace with it only in manufacturing nuclear weapons and their delivery systems. Pakistanis are often not told of the widening gap between the two countries in most fields including education, scientific research and innovation.In the aftermath of the recent Obama visit, Pakistan’s ire is focused on US support for a permanent seat for India in the United Nations Security Council and membership of the Nuclear Suppliers Group. Pakistan cannot realistically expect either for itself but would like to deny them to India as well.Instead of breeding competition with India in the national psyche, why not concentrate on addressing institutional weaknesses, eliminating terrorism, improving infrastructure and modernising the economy?

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Re: Sunni Terrorist Fragments of Unstable Pakistan - 1 Feb 2

Postby Shreeman » 02 Feb 2015 07:34

Just what makes it a $250B economy. And how do they handle even balance of payments with like $5B each with government and private banks. What turns around money so quickly?

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Re: Sunni Terrorist Fragments of Unstable Pakistan - 1 Feb 2

Postby A_Gupta » 02 Feb 2015 07:55

^^^ Haqqani:
Pakistanis are often not told of the widening gap between the two countries in most fields including education, scientific research and innovation.

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Re: Sunni Terrorist Fragments of Unstable Pakistan - 1 Feb 2

Postby sanjaykumar » 02 Feb 2015 08:48

Just what makes it a $250B economy.

As I have posted before, there is a quantum of difference between an economy that manufactures aircraft, rail engines, i+ million cars yearly, does heart transplants and works on quality control for car safety mechanisms or pharmacological research and one that is essentially a nai darzi (barber, tailor) economy with perhaps a dozen cotton gins thrown in.

It is the quality of the GDP that matters not merely a number.

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Re: Sunni Terrorist Fragments of Unstable Pakistan - 1 Feb 2

Postby Harish » 02 Feb 2015 09:05

Cosmo_R wrote:
Hari Seldon wrote:Meanwhile, in news intended specifically to relieve Pak's congenital constipation...

India pushing for China support on UNSC ahead of FM's meet (India Today)

P.S. Fat chance we'll get it. The aim IMO is to see if PRC can stay overtly neutral and abstain or something (while working overtime covertly to trip things up completely)...


Ironic no? JLN ceded the SC council seat to China. Now we are are trying to claw our way back in on something we could have had. All for to be able to veto any UNSC resolution on Kashmir that JLN proposed as a plebiscite until overtaken by events.

The termite family has really undermined us.

It is unfair to blame JLN for giving up the UNSC seat. What would he or India have done with the damn seat anyway? India in those days was living in delusions of grandeur and had little understanding of realpolitik. India understood little about global power structures and projection - nowhere does this reflect more tellingly than in the supine way we offered our seat to China. All we were doing in those days was giving free gyaan and high-sounding philosophical discourse to whoever cared to listen in the UN, riling everyone from friend to enemy.

I totally believe things happened as they should have. With their enormous ambitions and hard-nosed determination to achieve them, China was far more deserving of the seat, and indeed has made good use of it.

India is different now and appreciates the value of power both hard and soft. It is a (relatively more) savvy practitioner of global realpolitik. India will land the UNSC seat soon - we all get what we deserve in time.

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Re: Sunni Terrorist Fragments of Unstable Pakistan - 1 Feb 2

Postby Kashi » 02 Feb 2015 11:19

ChandraV wrote:There is some worrying stuff I see on this thread. Are some BRFites really advocating for a return to India, of "some varieties of peaceful Muslims" from Pakistan?

I hope I misinterpreted the sentiment, and that there is really no one here who even dreams of allowing any of those people in India.

There are dozens of nations for them to go to. Entire West Asia, North Africa, SE Asia (Indonesia etc.), and the Western nations of course (US/UK/Aus/etc.). There is absolutely no reason why even one of them should be allowed into India.


I believe what members are speculating is that some of these varieties may choose to seek shelter in India following their ilks being decimated by fellow peacefuls of the "more greener" variety.

We're aware of the instances of Rhingyas from Myanmar who have settled down in India, Altaf Hussain of MQM even mentioned that Mohajirs maybe forced to look back to the country of their origin.

Westerns nations do not want them, recently Australia completely denied that it was contemplating taking in some 2500 odd Shia Hazara families as was trumpeted in Paki media. This decision caused a lot of heartburn in Pakiland

http://blogs.tribune.com.pk/story/16213 ... australia/

Their ummah brothers in east or west do not wish to have them.

So they'll desperately try and sneak into India- why? Because they'll be safe and sound and free to continue with their diatribe against Hindus.

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Re: Sunni Terrorist Fragments of Unstable Pakistan - 1 Feb 2

Postby SSridhar » 02 Feb 2015 11:46

ChandraV wrote:. . . I hope I misinterpreted the sentiment . . .

Don't worry. Yes, you have misinterpreted.

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Re: Sunni Terrorist Fragments of Unstable Pakistan - 1 Feb 2

Postby Dipanker » 02 Feb 2015 12:01

^ Yes Paki made lot of hue and cry about Rohingya muslims but they did not make any asylum offer, or for that matters any other muslim nations. Most of Rohingyas have ended up in India because India recognized them as refugees.

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Re: Sunni Terrorist Fragments of Unstable Pakistan - 1 Feb 2

Postby pankajs » 02 Feb 2015 13:03

Peregrine wrote:Competing with India
....
Pakistan has to realise that world affairs are not carried out according to the figments of imagination of the country’s officially-sponsored intelligentsia. The nations of the world are engaged in serious relationships based on trade and security. No world leader will visit Pakistan if there is nothing substantial to talk about. No one has the time to add a day to their route merely to pander to Islamabad’s pretensions about parity with India.
Pakistan will have to accept hard facts and introspect the actual situation. And the fact is that Pakistan has little weight in the international arena, politically and economically. Politically, it is viewed as a nuisance at best and a threat to international security at worst.

On the above highlighted parts

1. Pakistan's *officially* sponsored intelligentsia/Aman ki tamasha type > This is something that Hussain Haqqani and Unfair have spoken about. There is a pool of people who are fully trained on the official line armed with all the counters to tough questions. They are also trained to suppress their natural pakistaniyat when meeting foreigners and portray the peace loving liberal Baki. Whenever, anyone visits Bakistan a subset of these folks are deployed as representative of the famed Baki civil society. Someone who does not understand this goes back visibly impressed with the liberal and peace loving Baki civil society. UnFair's prescription is very useful but alas who has the time and in any case those that are invited to interact with the Baki civil society are already more than inclined to give them a free pass.

2. Foreigners no longer pandering to Bakis's pretense of parity with India > That is where India's stand becomes so very critical in Baki scheme of things. In bygone days, when the *West* was interested, India's stand did not matter as much.

3. Threat to international security > Bakis have only compounded this by flashing the nuclear card at the slightest pretext. Also over use of a card will dampen its impact with repeated usage. Perhaps they don't realize this or perhaps they do.

Why do they feel the necessity of linking everything with the nuclear weapons? India or China do not add the *nuclear* word before their country names. Some times I get the feeling that they do this to reassure themselves and their citizens as much as to threaten India. Do they not trust their own weapon?

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Re: Sunni Terrorist Fragments of Unstable Pakistan - 1 Feb 2

Postby Vikas » 02 Feb 2015 13:04

Sunni,Shia, Balochi, Pathan, Sindhi, Ismalis, Bohra, Hazara, Punjabi blah blah Pakis, None of them ever spared Hindus - Men, women and Children whenever they could get their hands on them.
These Barbarians must be left in the Pak-Hole to have their women forcibly taken by Greener shades, Children made slaves and men left with slit throats and if nothing else, One party scoring century against other every Friday. Let the B!tch called Karma payback with interest this time.
We do not need any shade of Green in India anymore.

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Sunni Terrorist Fragments of Unstable Pakistan - 1 Feb 2015

Postby Peregrine » 02 Feb 2015 14:54

Highly Intelligent Forumites, Intelligent Forumites, Forumites All :

With respect to the Further Migration of the Rohingyas from Myanmar, Ahmedis from Pakistan and surely later on from Bangladesh along with the Shias of Pakistan and more surely from Bangladesh it is imperative that the Policy of our Government has to change.

As ChandraV Ji has stated "There is no dearth of Mani Shankar Aiyar types who will be full of pappi-jhappi sentiment and will welcome the Pakis with open arms. That should not be allowed at any cost. These Mani Aiyar, Salman Khurshid, Sudheendra Kulkarni, Tehseen Poonawala, Shehzad Poonawala, etc. are traitors of the worst kind. What's worse is that India has millions of useful idiots who will support these traitorous WKKs in the interest of "universal brotherhood", "atithidevo bhava" and "vasudhaiva kutumbakam".", it is our duty and more importantly the Government of India's Duty to make the World aware that the 1.5 Billion Muslims have Fifty and more Islamic Countries to go to WHEREAS THE 1.2 BILLION HINDUS HAVE NO HINDU COUNTRY.

We must also take cognizance of the Onslaught of the Two Proselytizing Religions and FORGIVE THEIR CONTRIBUTION TO THE CONVERSION OF HINDUS BUT NEVER FORGET!

Just as the USA, Canada, Europe, Australia, New Zealand etc. are Christian Countries but are TOLERANT OF ALL RELIGIONS may be the Solution would be to have India and Nepal as Hindu Countries BUT ENSURE A TOLERATION OF ALL RELIGIONS

I hope I am not misunderstood and look forward to a useful dialogue on the problem albeit in a Suitable Thread.

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Re: Sunni Terrorist Fragments of Unstable Pakistan - 1 Feb 2

Postby Shreeman » 02 Feb 2015 14:55

sanjaykumar wrote:Just what makes it a $250B economy.

As I have posted before, there is a quantum of difference between an economy that manufactures aircraft, rail engines, i+ million cars yearly, does heart transplants and works on quality control for car safety mechanisms or pharmacological research and one that is essentially a nai darzi (barber, tailor) economy with perhaps a dozen cotton gins thrown in.

It is the quality of the GDP that matters not merely a number.


sanjay,

while the sentiment is correct (explains usd in pkr, survival on 0 hard currency, etc), the number is not totally meaningless. Especially as I argue it is an order of magnitude off -- EU prostitution/drugs style. You can only sell so much cotton toilet covers. Especially when there is no electricity.

The nai, darzi element is weaker than cooled up. And if the scale was computed correctly, this particular economy would be shrinking at an understandable rate (talibaan == beards, all shalwars brown == no need for new ones for anyone).

Yes, economists cook them up the world around. But like the rest, this number is cooked up in true 400% style, by a 10x.

I argue, the number is more $2X B than it is $2XX B (NoKo is $1X B). And they ought to be treated as if it were.

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Re: Sunni Terrorist Fragments of Unstable Pakistan - 1 Feb 2

Postby Shreeman » 02 Feb 2015 15:00

The vasudhaiv kutumbkam is meant to counter going to vilayat makes you an untouchable and fostering viewing the rest of the world as your home and not the other way arounf. atithi devo bhav does not foresee converting the atithi into a ghar jamai.

Not sure why people see common civics as an invitation to import more illegal aliens.

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Re: Sunni Terrorist Fragments of Unstable Pakistan - 1 Feb 2

Postby shiv » 02 Feb 2015 15:37

Peregrine wrote:Highly Intelligent Forumites, Intelligent Forumites, Forumites All :

With respect to the Further Migration of the Rohingyas from Myanmar, Ahmedis from Pakistan and surely later on from Bangladesh along with the Shias of Pakistan and more surely from Bangladesh it is imperative that the Policy of our Government has to change.

As ChandraV Ji has stated "There is no dearth of Mani Shankar Aiyar types who will be full of pappi-jhappi sentiment and will welcome the Pakis with open arms. That should not be allowed at any cost. These Mani Aiyar, Salman Khurshid, Sudheendra Kulkarni, Tehseen Poonawala, Shehzad Poonawala, etc. are traitors of the worst kind. What's worse is that India has millions of useful idiots who will support these traitorous WKKs in the interest of "universal brotherhood", "atithidevo bhava" and "vasudhaiva kutumbakam".", it is our duty and more importantly the Government of India's Duty to make the World aware that the 1.5 Billion Muslims have Fifty and more Islamic Countries to go to WHEREAS THE 1.2 BILLION HINDUS HAVE NO HINDU COUNTRY.

We must also take cognizance of the Onslaught of the Two Proselytizing Religions and FORGIVE THEIR CONTRIBUTION TO THE CONVERSION OF HINDUS BUT NEVER FORGET!

Just as the USA, Canada, Europe, Australia, New Zealand etc. are Christian Countries but are TOLERANT OF ALL RELIGIONS may be the Solution would be to have India and Nepal as Hindu Countries BUT ENSURE A TOLERATION OF ALL RELIGIONS

I hope I am not misunderstood and look forward to a useful dialogue on the problem albeit in a Suitable Thread.


If the shit hits the fan in shitland - as it appears to be doing refugees from Pakistan in tens of thousands will be unavoidable. As I foresee it, every country will do its bit and take some refugees, and India will be forced to reckon with a situation in which we too must "do our bit". Typically it will be Indian citizen Muslims who have relatives in Pakistan who will beg and plead for the lives of their kin and some will come in.

I do not disagree that Islam has only murdered and raped in India. Destruction of thirty thousand Hindu temples is not a joke that any sane Hindu can wish away in the name of secularism. But the reality is that we will get refugees. But anyone who comes in must be warned to keep his bigotry firmly bottled up inside him and to comply fully with the Indian way. But never mind all this - let me state what bothers me.

If we go into denial and say "we will not let anyone in" - we will ultimately find refugees among our midst and be unprepared. Being prepared for them is talking openly about the thousands of Hindu temples and destroyed and Hindus murdered the last time Muslims coming in from the west were allowed refuge in India. In our nations our parents and teachers have lied to us in the name of secularism. If the truth does not become common knowledge even the idea that we are not allowing refugees in will be seen as needless cruelty and lack of humanity. The only way Indians can understand is to realize that keeping Pakis out is a matter of abundant precaution and any who come in because of desperate circumstances are not going to get a frickin Islamic nation or the opportunity to build one in India. That has to be open knowledge by open availability of recorded history by Islamic scribes of Hindu temple destruction and Hindu murder and enslavement by Muslim rulers. The Islamic nation for Muslims of the subcontinent is in Pakistan - and people who want an Islamic nation must stay in Pakistan.

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Re: Sunni Terrorist Fragments of Unstable Pakistan - 1 Feb 2

Postby shiv » 02 Feb 2015 15:50

Harish wrote: India in those days was living in delusions of grandeur and had little understanding of realpolitik. India understood little about global power structures and projection - nowhere does this reflect more tellingly than in the supine way we offered our seat to China. All we were doing in those days was giving free gyaan and high-sounding philosophical discourse to whoever cared to listen in the UN, riling everyone from friend to enemy.

I totally believe things happened as they should have. With their enormous ambitions and hard-nosed determination to achieve them, China was far more deserving of the seat, and indeed has made good use of it.

India is different now and appreciates the value of power both hard and soft. It is a (relatively more) savvy practitioner of global realpolitik. India will land the UNSC seat soon - we all get what we deserve in time.

Oddly enough Harish - it was other countries who could see India's potential and were willing to place India by their side - but Nehru's sense of inferiority compared to the west and later China - a sense that has rubbed off a bit on every Indian made Nehru and Indians feel were not good enough. That was wrong.

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Re: Sunni Terrorist Fragments of Unstable Pakistan - 1 Feb 2

Postby pankajs » 02 Feb 2015 16:05

The refugee crisis will happen only when the state collapses and a civil war ensures. If Bakistan breaks along provincial lines but it does NOT descend into a Afghanistan like civil war but only some localized cleaning of the others, we might not have much to worry. Bakis, fed on dollops of propaganda that India is out to erase their Islamic heritage, will choose to stay put if the level of violence is tolerable.

If the break is accompanied with civil war on the scale of Afghanistan we will have a refugee crisis on our hand. BUT if no central authority remains within that region, we can carve out a safe zones along side the border but on their side. Will be easy to ring-fence, protect and supply while still keeping them on Bak territory.

But like Shiv saar said, we need to be prepared. Sites of the right kind need to be identified alongside the border before hand keeping the necessary factors in mind. Should be a semi-arid and sparsely populated area away from the population centers on both side of the border so that a proper ring can be established. If it is a rain deficit region, will help avoid water borne contagions during rainy season. Should have a perennial river or canal nearby for water supply. Should be gently sloping towards Baki land so that most of the shit they dump gets washed to their rivers. Somewhere along the Punjab/Rajasthan border.

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Re: Sunni Terrorist Fragments of Unstable Pakistan - 1 Feb 2

Postby Peregrine » 02 Feb 2015 16:10

Pakistan successfully test-fires cruise missile Ra'ad

Image

Cwapistan acknowledges the Chinese Origin of ALCM Ra’ad by Colouring it RED!

ISLAMABAD: Pakistan on Monday conducted a successful test-fire of the Air Launched Cruise Missile (ALCM) named Ra'ad, ISPR reported.

The Ra'ad Missile, with a range of over 350 km, has been developed exclusively for launch from Aerial Platforms.

This missile system has enabled Pakistan to achieve a greater strategic standoff capability on land and at sea, said an ISPR statement.

Cheers Image

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Re: Sunni Terrorist Fragments of Unstable Pakistan - 1 Feb 2

Postby shiv » 02 Feb 2015 16:17

Raand missile? What a name.

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Re: Sunni Terrorist Fragments of Unstable Pakistan - 1 Feb 2

Postby A_Gupta » 02 Feb 2015 16:41

^^^ 13. Surah Ar Ra'ad (The Thunder)

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Re: Sunni Terrorist Fragments of Unstable Pakistan - 1 Feb 2

Postby A_Gupta » 02 Feb 2015 16:43

http://dunyanews.tv/index.php/en/Pakist ... for-mental

PESHAWAR, Pakistan (AFP) - A group of students and teachers who survived a Taliban massacre at a Pakistani school left Monday for a trip to China aimed at healing the mental scars of their ordeal.

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Re: Sunni Terrorist Fragments of Unstable Pakistan - 1 Feb 2

Postby Harish » 02 Feb 2015 16:45

What is that thing hanging out from below? A sewage pipe? A mijjile within a mijjile?

A bennij? :eek:

This Raaand is a mard, apparently.

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Re: Sunni Terrorist Fragments of Unstable Pakistan - 1 Feb 2

Postby A_Gupta » 02 Feb 2015 16:46

http://nation.com.pk/business/02-Feb-20 ... owth-model

Truly Pakistan lives in the 7th century.

Presently Pakistan is the second largest producer of buffalo milk, the third largest producer of cotton, fifth largest country for the occurrence of gemstones, 4th largest Livestock population, which shows that Pakistan is enriched with a huge potential of economic growth and needs nothing but a progressive generation of SMEs to transform these resources into business.


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Re: Sunni Terrorist Fragments of Unstable Pakistan - 1 Feb 2

Postby A_Gupta » 02 Feb 2015 16:56

http://www.dawn.com/news/1160925/mqm-as ... hout-delay

ISLAMABAD: A Mutta­hida Qaumi Movement’s resolution urging the government to immediately conduct a population census in the country is on the agenda of the Senate’s sitting to be held on Monday.


Why the takleef at conducting a census?

Giving an example, he said, the population of Karachi had now crossed 20.5 million, but the city still has 10 seats reserved in the National Assembly.

“Karachi’s seats in the assembly will be doubled after the census,” he claimed.


The MQM senator said that those who did not want to hold local bodies’ elections in the country were actually reluctant to hold census as they knew that after the census they would have to go for new delimitation of constituencies and would have to give share in resources and development funds to local governments.

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Re: Sunni Terrorist Fragments of Unstable Pakistan - 1 Feb 2

Postby pankajs » 02 Feb 2015 17:09

Baki obsession with *sneaking into the Indo-US frame* continues.

http://www.onlinenews.com.pk/details.php?newsid=283720
Spokesperson for the US embassy in Islamabad Cynthia Harvey on Sunday accepted the regional issue was discussed in Obama-Modi meeting in New Delhi.

However, she was blank as whether the issue of Pak-India tension was discussed in the meeting, saying, “I refer you to the US-India Joint Statement and other public statements.”

She told Online that President Obama and Prime Minister Narendra Modi discussed a range of bilateral and regional issues, including trade, security and counterterrorism, climate change, and inclusive development.

Diplomatic sources said that so far no briefing over the Obama visit to India was given to the US Embassy in Islamabad or Pakistani Embassy in Washington. Briefing to US State Department was also yet awaited, they added.

The US State Department and White House are also not directly answering the question. The US-India Joint statement is silent over the issue.

Responding to a question about Obama-Modi discussion over Pak-India tension in her Friday’s briefing in Washington, the US State Department Spokesperson, Jen Psaki said, “Well, I’d point you to the President for that. As you know, the Secretary wasn’t even on the trip with him.” :rotfl: {Now we don't know if this *clarification* was indeed issued or something pulled out of the musharraf wonlee.}

My gawd! this needling of bakistan continues or rather this flinging oneself on the point of the needle by the bakis continues. Why is sammy bahadur bent of denying bakis even the comfort of words hanji? Have some taras on the boor porki.

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Re: Sunni Terrorist Fragments of Unstable Pakistan - 1 Feb 2

Postby shiv » 02 Feb 2015 17:32

Hmm - this is something I had not realized earlier..

For Bakistanis - the sign that they are important to the world and that they do matter comes from
1. Hyphenation with India
2. Mention of Kashmir
3. Reference to Pakistan or Kashmir by US

Look out for mention of Kashmir by China. If China mentions Kashmir or Pakistan - we need to be prepared with a premeditated insult to them: Tibet, human rights, democracy, freedom of religion ect

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Re: Sunni Terrorist Fragments of Unstable Pakistan - 1 Feb 2

Postby K Mehta » 02 Feb 2015 17:45

The problem is not just this time, bakbahadur was denied last time also during US visit of Namo. This continued policy is causing the takleef.
X-posting from foreign policy thread
viewtopic.php?p=1732896#p1732896

During PM's US visit in a discussion on times now, one expert (uneven cohen?) was saying everytime India says dont hyphenate us with pak and then the next thing we discuss is pak, also India says dont want international interference in kashmir and then wants US to get pak to stop violence in kashmir. Looks like the P word has become the new K word, with no mention of it during the declaration. The Indian govt has done its homework on foreign policy and how to talk with the US.

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Re: Sunni Terrorist Fragments of Unstable Pakistan - 1 Feb 2

Postby SSridhar » 02 Feb 2015 17:49

shiv wrote:Look out for mention of Kashmir by China.

Chin has been very careful for the entire 50 years that our relationship is strained.

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Re: Sunni Terrorist Fragments of Unstable Pakistan - 1 Feb 2

Postby member_28921 » 02 Feb 2015 17:50

Harish wrote:What is that thing hanging out from below? A sewage pipe? A mijjile within a mijjile?

A bennij? :eek:

This Raaand is a mard, apparently.


Joo are raang my phraand. This Raakit is a Mard. So it is Raakit Mard.

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Re: Sunni Terrorist Fragments of Unstable Pakistan - 1 Feb 2

Postby SSridhar » 02 Feb 2015 17:52

Man and bike, [from] Germany to India
Excerpts
An off-road motorcycle named after the Ténéré desert in Sahara is a rare sight inside the Office of the Commissioner of Police in Vepery.

And so is the man who rode it all the way from Freiburg in Germany to Chennai and reached the top cop’s office [to get a no-objection certificate to ship his bike back to Germany after a 16000 Km journey]

His real challenge began after he entered Pakistan through the Balochistan province with some fellow bikers he befriended on the road.

“We rode through Pakistan a total of 12 days, with police escort, and were not permitted to interact with the locals. We had to spend the night at police stations en route,” he said.

Riding for over 90 days, Rheiner entered India via the Wagah border on December 3. He then rode around the length and breath of the country making stops at Dharamshala, Agra, Ranthambore, Mumbai, Aurangabad, Bengaluru, Ooty, Munnar, Alappuzha and Rameswaram, and entered Chennai last Sunday, thus completing his expedition.

Now, that is the geostrategic importance of Pakistan that Sir Olaf Caroe so eloquently talked about. No biker from Germany can come to India bypassing Pakistan.

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Re: Sunni Terrorist Fragments of Unstable Pakistan - 1 Feb 2

Postby SSridhar » 02 Feb 2015 18:06

After 7 year gap, Pakistan Day to see military parade in full glory - DAWN
A joint military parade of Pakistan's armed forces will take place on Pakistan Day, sources said on Monday, after a gap of seven years.

"The decision has been made to hold a joint military services parade on March 23," a top military source told Dawn on the condition of anonymity.

The parade will be organised by joint staff headquarters in Rawalpindi, which oversees the three armed forces of Pakistan.The venue for the parade is yet to be finalised, with the two vast compounds shortlisted as potential sites.

The last military parade took place on March 23, 2008 during the tenure of Gen (retd) Pervez Musharraf as a civilian president.

Furthermore, a diplomatic source told Dawn that Chinese President Xi Jinping is expected to attend the Pakistan Day parade as chief guest.

Both China and Pakistan are working out details of the Chinese president's visit through diplomatic channels.

Chinese authorities have been assured about maximum security during Jinping's upcoming visit.


“The joint military parade has been cancelled due to security reason and deployment of troops at western borders engaged in the war against terrorism,” the defence source had said in 2014.

The decision to resume the military parade after seven years appears to be a manifestation of the military's show of strength in the wake of the shocking attack on the Army Public School (APS) in Peshawar last year, which left 150 people dead, including 132 schoolchildren.

In Pakistan, the March 23 is venerated because it is likened to a national holiday, with some military processions that honour the day.

However, the day's true greatness is more universal as it demonstrates the ideology of the independence movement; justice for the masses through constitutional measures ranging from electoral safeguards to guaranteed representation in state institutions.

It was this day that the Muslim League declared its demand for a separate homeland to safeguard the sanctity of the rights of the 30 million Muslims in British India.

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Re: Sunni Terrorist Fragments of Unstable Pakistan - 1 Feb 2

Postby Mihaylo » 02 Feb 2015 18:09

Harish wrote:What is that thing hanging out from below? A sewage pipe? A mijjile within a mijjile?

A bennij? :eek:

This Raaand is a mard, apparently.


Very Similar to Another Phamous Mijjile from Uncle's Desh (NSFW)

-M

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Re: Sunni Terrorist Fragments of Unstable Pakistan - 1 Feb 2

Postby pankajs » 02 Feb 2015 18:23

Victory at last!

http://tribune.com.pk/story/831409/stal ... -pakistan/
Stalled negotiations: Obama pushed Modi to re-engage with Pakistan
A senior official {Baki} familiar with the development told The Express Tribune on Sunday that Washington has informed through diplomatic channels that Obama “privately encouraged and pushed” Modi to review his approach towards Pakistan.

The US president told Modi that despite ongoing tensions, India must remain engaged with Pakistan. The official, who requested not to be named because of the sensitivity of the issue, said Modi was informed that Pakistan had taken ‘serious steps’ in recent months to eradicate terrorism.
....
The official said that the US intervention at the highest level raised the possibility of resumption of talks between the two nuclear-armed neighbours. A diplomatic source claimed that the moribund talks might resume in March.
....
The American reluctance to publicly acknowledge its ‘intervention’ is attributed to the fact that India does not want to be seen taking ‘dictation’ from outside due to domestic compulsions.
....
He added that India’s ‘dependency’ on the United States, be it defence or nuclear areas, means Americans will have more ‘leverage’ over the administration in New Delhi.
Do the Bakis understand the meaning of leverage?

The fact that the source is an unnamed baki is very suggestive.


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