Indian Economy - News & Discussion Oct 12 2013

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chetak
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Re: Indian Economy - News & Discussion Oct 12 2013

Post by chetak »

RoyG wrote:Luyens' Spice claims that Arun Shourie will take over as FM. Rajdeep and Sagarika are probably the account owners.

If this is true, Modi will do it after the grand budget presentation this month.

It also means that Modi is ready to undertake large scale divestment and structural reform.
He is 1941 born and quite close to the BJP self imposed age cutoff of 75.

Najma Heptullah is also in the same boat.
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Re: Indian Economy - News & Discussion Oct 12 2013

Post by Singha »

Shourie is a self-taught expert on how the abyss of license-permit raj used to work. in NDA1 he had done a study on how many desks and people a single file has to move.

he could be used as a feynmann type outside expert to review and approve as a 2nd opinion the speedup structural workflow reforms that namo is trying to bring into the system.
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Re: Indian Economy - News & Discussion Oct 12 2013

Post by Yagnasri »

Soon steps needed to be taken for Manufacturing hubs at all over the nation. Otherwise getting people jobs (1.3 Cr are entering job market every year now) is near impossible. I do hope some serious efforts are being done now. May be one Manufacturing hub ever Lok Sabha seat per 6 months is needed from now for a decade or so.
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Re: Indian Economy - News & Discussion Oct 12 2013

Post by Suraj »

Shourie has previously been stated as declining a cabinet berth in this government due to personal and health issues. It does not make sense to make him a full cabinet minister now, but his wisdom would be very useful in NITI Aayog or in a PM advisory role.

Govt gives environmental clearance to projects worth Rs.6.3 lakh crore (over $100 billion) in June-December 2014
To fast-track industrial activities, the government has granted environmental clearance to 190 projects worth an estimated Rs 6.31 lakh crore across sectors like mining and steel during the June-December 2014.

The focus on faster clearances follows concerns raised by the industry that such approvals were hard to come by during the previous UPA regime at the Centre, thus creating bottlenecks for large industrial projects.

Of the total projects, the Environment Ministry has cleared 37 non-coal mining projects worth Rs 4.49 lakh crore, 48 infrastructure projects worth Rs 95,000 crore and 69 industrial projects worth Rs 40,600 crore in the said period.

That apart, environment clearances have been given to 10 thermal projects worth Rs 38,000 crore and 23 coal mining projects worth Rs 8,900 crore, one river valley project worth Rs 238 crore since the government came to power on May 26.

According to the source, green nods have been given to companies like India Cements and Ultratech Cement for cement projects, ONGC and Cairn India for petroleum drilling projects and Rungta Mines for a steel project.

In case of coal mining projects, all 23 projects approved belong to Coal India and its subsidiaries and are expected to generate 15 million tonnes of coal.

In non-coal mining category, environmental clearances have been given to iron ore projects located in Odisha belonging to companies like Sirajuddin and Rungta.
RBI may cut interest rate further in policy review this week
The RBI may cut its policy rate further by 0.25% this week to boost growth, as inflation remains under control and fiscal situation appears better following a record CIL disinvestment.

RBI, which last month announced a surprise rate cut of 25 basis points after maintaining a hawkish monetary stance for 20 months, is scheduled to undertake its sixth bi-monthly monetary policy review, 2014-15 on Tuesday, February 3.

According to bankers and economists, there is room for further rate cut by RBI as retail and wholesale inflation rates have remained benign.

The concerns on fiscal deficit front have also eased, especially after the government last week garnered a record amount of Rs 22,577 crore through disinvestment of 10% stake in Coal India Ltd.

While lowering the policy repo rate to 7.75% from 8%, RBI had also said on January 15 that further rate cuts would depend upon inflationary expectations and improvement in the fiscal situation.

While the retail inflation slipped to 5% in December, the Wholesale Price Index (WPI) inflation remained near zero level (0.1%).

The government's fiscal situation is expected to improve further with more disinvestments. So far, the government has realised over Rs 24,000 crore with just two disinvestment share sales, including SAIL's Rs 1,719 crore late last year. It targets to raise a total of Rs 43,425 crore from disinvestment in the current fiscal, ending next month.
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Re: Indian Economy - News & Discussion Oct 12 2013

Post by nawabs »

Regulators mull IFSC norms; Gujarat's GIFT City may be first

http://www.business-standard.com/articl ... 578_1.html
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Re: Indian Economy - News & Discussion Oct 12 2013

Post by Uttam »

LIC bought almost half the shares offered in the recent CIL disinvestment.

This I see is a big problem. Since LIC is entirely government owned, it is really not a disinvestment. Even in terms of deficit management, this to me seem more like an accounting gimmick than an actual improvement of fiscal situation.
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Re: Indian Economy - News & Discussion Oct 12 2013

Post by sudarshan »

Posted already?

India revises GDP growth.

Makes that much difference? Growth for 2013 revised from 4.7% to 6.9% !!
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Re: Indian Economy - News & Discussion Oct 12 2013

Post by Suraj »

The growth rate 'increased' because the actual growth index for the base year (2011-12) decreased. In other words, the previously quoted growth for 2011-12 fell significantly, enhancing the numbers for the next two fiscal years. Those articles retroactively crediting the UPA don't realize that the rate for those two years increased because the index for the new base year fell, compared to the original computation. In other words, if the base year GDP was originally 100 and 105 next year, the next year growth rate would originally be quoted as 5%. But if the base year GDP was recalculated to 98, the next year figure changes to 7.1% . That's what happened here.

I don't see why LIC owning CIL shares is a bad thing. It's not a transfer from one GoI entity to another. LIC is an insurance company and therefore sells policies to the public, which it then invests in the portfolio it holds. Therefore they are simply an institutional investor as opposed to a retail one. Worldwide, big institutional buyers predominate large stake sales, not retail investors. Anywhere between 25-45% of major stocks like Google and Apple are held by institutional investors too. In our less mature equity market, particularly considering the stake sale was implemented on very short notice, the CIL ownership pattern is fairly normal. LIC will probably sell off part of its holdings as the market strengthens, since CIL currently hovers around its stake sale reserve price.
Theo_Fidel

Re: Indian Economy - News & Discussion Oct 12 2013

Post by Theo_Fidel »

Uttam wrote:LIC bought almost half the shares offered in the recent CIL disinvestment.

This I see is a big problem. Since LIC is entirely government owned, it is really not a disinvestment. Even in terms of deficit management, this to me seem more like an accounting gimmick than an actual improvement of fiscal situation.
There is nothing new here. These shenanigans have been going on for many decades now.

I’m reading this book about Martin Frankel, fraudster of $200 Million in the 1990’s. After defrauding financial investors the next thing he does is buy up insurance companies and then raid their reserve funds. Looks like in India we can’t get GOI to stop doing the same. If a private investor did this, we would be looking to destroy him calling it fraud. But for GOI not a peep, even from the investing community.

This is why I’m a strong advocate of shutting all these parasitic organizations down. Oh! Trust me LIC makes ‘some one’ pay for all this. Maybe next up on the disinvestment list should be LIC itself. Why the hell is GOI in the insurance business in any case. I can see subsidizing a few underserved areas, farmers, unemployment, etc, but why LIC. Break it up and sell off the pieces I say….
----------------------

BTW our equity market is plenty mature, no need for own goals...
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Re: Indian Economy - News & Discussion Oct 12 2013

Post by Suraj »

There's no own goal involved here. The state insurance companies have ready capital to buy out a stake sale issue on the spot in one day, that they then turn over for a profit. In the west, the big banks play that role, in IPOs and other offerings. It's the same in both places. One being a majority state owned entity and the other being private makes the acceptability of either mainly a matter of personal ideology.
Theo_Fidel

Re: Indian Economy - News & Discussion Oct 12 2013

Post by Theo_Fidel »

Except LIC is not a bank. If that is what you want to do then use a bank to underwrite the selloff. And this is not just bank deposit funds that are then put towards investment. This is the Insurance companies reserves not just ready capital. There is nothing ideological in pointing out something that in normal circumstances would be highly illegal. And it was questionable even when the UPA or ABV or RG1 or IG did it. IG in particular was known for these maneuvers.

I still don’t think the comment about our equity markets being immature is merited. Our equity market & for that matter our banks know how to price this sell off, they are probably the most mature markets between EU & Japan.. The government does not agree with their valuation and hence the wheeling-dealing.
Last edited by Theo_Fidel on 02 Feb 2015 23:41, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Indian Economy - News & Discussion Oct 12 2013

Post by Uttam »

Suraj wrote: I don't see why LIC owning CIL shares is a bad thing. It's not a transfer from one GoI entity to another. LIC is an insurance company and therefore sells policies to the public, which it then invests in the portfolio it holds. Therefore they are simply an institutional investor as opposed to a retail one. Worldwide, big institutional buyers predominate large stake sales, not retail investors. Anywhere between 25-45% of major stocks like Google and Apple are held by institutional investors too. In our less mature equity market, particularly considering the stake sale was implemented on very short notice, the CIL ownership pattern is fairly normal. LIC will probably sell off part of its holdings as the market strengthens, since CIL currently hovers around its stake sale reserve price.

Ok, here is a counter argument. When LIC bought the shares in CIL they used capital that belonged to the owners of the company. LIC is not a "Mutual" insurance company where the insured are also the owners of the company, instead it is a "Stock" insurance company where the insured and the shareholders are two separate entities, and in the case of LIC the GOI is its sole stockholder. Therefore, the capital used in the case of LIC belongs to it is shareholders which is GOI and not to the insured, who are really its customers. Therefore, this transaction is just transfer capital from a GOI department to another.

I agree that LIC is not bound by any covenant that prevents it from selling CIL shares in the open market and they can sell whenever the market is favorable. A similar objective could have been achieved by transferring shares to a SPV (I believe GOI has already planned, or already done the transfer to their ownership in private companies like ITC to such a SPV) and then a professional portfolio manager could have sold those shares at the right time. Of course, in this case the GOI would not have received immediate cash from LIC but than this gimmickry could have been avoided. I also agree this is not the first time it has been done but the precedence does not justify this act.
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Re: Indian Economy - News & Discussion Oct 12 2013

Post by Uttam »

Theo_Fidel wrote:Except LIC is not a bank. If that is what you want to do then use a bank to underwrite the selloff. And this is not just bank deposit funds that are then put towards investment. This is the Insurance companies reserves not just ready capital. There is nothing ideological in pointing out something that in normal circumstances would be highly illegal.

I still don’t think the comment about our equity markets being immature is merited. Our equity market & for that matter our banks know how to price this sell off, they are probably the most mature markets between EU & Japan.. The government does not agree with their valuation and hence the wheeling-dealing.

I agree with @Theo_Fidel. Anywhere else, e.g if TATA-AIG buys shares of Tata Motors, it would be have been a related party transactions and the Insurance regulators would have come hard on the insurance company. The low level of participations by the non-govt. financial institutions in the sell off raises a lot of red flag.
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Re: Indian Economy - News & Discussion Oct 12 2013

Post by Suraj »

Theo_Fidel wrote:Except LIC is not a bank. If that is what you want to do then use a bank to underwrite the selloff. And this is not just bank deposit funds that are then put towards investment. This is the Insurance companies reserves not just ready capital. There is nothing ideological in pointing out something that in normal circumstances would be highly illegal. And it was questionable even when the UPA or ABV or RG1 or IG did it. IG in particular was known for these maneuvers.

I still don’t think the comment about our equity markets being immature is merited. Our equity market & for that matter our banks know how to price this sell off, they are probably the most mature markets between EU & Japan.. The government does not agree with their valuation and hence the wheeling-dealing.
Pension fund and insurance companies are major institutional investors worldwide. If you follow Bloomberg or some other news source, you'll see references to some distant entity like the Belgian School Teachers Pension Fund or the Norwegian Derrick Operators Pension Fund complaining about governance practices at some valley IT company because they hold a stake in that company.
Uttam wrote:Ok, here is a counter argument. When LIC bought the shares in CIL they used capital that belonged to the owners of the company.
What capital belonging to GoI does LIC have to spend ? GoI's stake in LIC is a paper value, that is unmonetized as long as an LIC stake is not divested in the open market. Their capital base is the base acquired from the insurance policies they sold, and it's a very substantial capital base: they have ~270 million individual investors, and an investment portfolio worth Rs.14 lakh crore or ~$230 billion (reference). Both those are June 2014 statistics and probably significantly higher due to market movement since, say 280 million individuals and $250 billion. LIC's $2 billion purchase of shares in CIL, the world's biggest coal miner, is still less than 1% of their investment portfolio. Nothing really unusual in all this. There's no money being transferred from one GoI entity to another - if you hold a policy with them ~0.75-0.8% of it is now invested in CIL.
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Re: Indian Economy - News & Discussion Oct 12 2013

Post by RamaY »

http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Life_Ins ... n_of_India
In 1955, parliamentarian Amol Barate raised the matter of insurance fraud by owners of private insurance agencies. In the ensuing investigations, one of India's wealthiest businessmen, Sachin Devkekar, owner of the Times of India newspaper, was sent to prison for two years.

Eventually, the Parliament of India passed the Life Insurance of India Act on June 19, 1956 creating the Life Insurance Corporation of India, which started operating in September of that year. It consolidated the life insurance business of 245 private life insurers and other entities offering life insurance services, this consisted of 154 life insurance companies, 16 foreign companies and 75 provident companies. The nationalisation of the life insurance business in India was a result of the Industrial Policy Resolution of 1956, which had created a policy framework for extending state control over at least seventeen sectors of the economy, including life insurance.
Theo_Fidel

Re: Indian Economy - News & Discussion Oct 12 2013

Post by Theo_Fidel »

Suraj,

I find it hard to believe a pension fund is the same thing as an insurance company.
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Re: Indian Economy - News & Discussion Oct 12 2013

Post by Uttam »

Suraj wrote:Pension fund and insurance companies are major institutional investors worldwide.

Question is not whether an insurance firm or a pension fund should invest in a company like CIL. The question is whether the investor in question made this investment by their free will or they were arm-twisted in doing so.
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Re: Indian Economy - News & Discussion Oct 12 2013

Post by Suraj »

Theo_Fidel wrote:I find it hard to believe a pension fund is the same thing as an insurance company.
You're under the impression I claimed anything like that, yes ? :)
Uttam wrote:Question is not whether an insurance firm or a pension fund should invest in a company like CIL. The question is whether the investor in question made this investment by their free will or they were arm-twisted in doing so.
They're not 'arm-twisted' to do so. They're wholly owned by the Govt of India, and CIL is majority own by the GoI as well. Both are tasked with following GoI's objectives. There's certainly an arguable moral hazard in one part of government spending an investment portfolio comprising public money to purchase a divestment issue. But on the other hand, any person who purchases a policy with LIC knows this, and still put their money there. Purely in investment terms it's not a bad investment at all, nor or the moral hazard any better or worse than anything we see involving western private banks.

Personally, I'm not doctrinaire about this at all. There are moral hazards in many things we do as individuals daily. I'll take how GoI effectively conducted this, over some entity like Goldman Sachs or anyone structuring IPOs to guarantee their own payout. Within the existing construct, where LIC is fully owned and CIL is being divested of, GoI did exactly what it should be doing to get the job done, in a manner that deploys a very reasonable fraction of LIC's gargantuan investment portfolio in a very profitable PSU. No scam, no wham. Just implemented effectively, and fully subscribed despite it being a $4 billion offering made on short notice in a soft market. I'll take such effective implementation any day over long discussions on theoretical morality.
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Re: Indian Economy - News & Discussion Oct 12 2013

Post by TSJones »

Theo_Fidel wrote:Suraj,

I find it hard to believe a pension fund is the same thing as an insurance company.
It is not the same but very similar. In fact, an insurance company can own a pension company and vice versa. Both entities must use actuaries for their respective operations and in the US they must obey federal and various state guidelines. CalPers, is a California state employees pension system and is a huge investment entity that is actively managed by the state of California. It is the largest shareholder in many corporations. Conversely *all* insurance companies are highly regulated in the US and must answer to the state(s) insurance commissioners in which they do business. And if they are large enough, they may be declared a systemically important financial institution "SIFI" and must report to the Federal Reserve and be audited. A gift from the 2008 recession.

To recap, both pension funds and insurance companies use accredited actuaries and they can basically "own" each other although government run pension funds would be exempt from public stock ownership. However not "private" pension funds. It may be different in India, I dunno.
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Re: Indian Economy - News & Discussion Oct 12 2013

Post by vishvak »

Aren't payments/bonus for LIC plans well listed already by LIC? It is all very well structured by govt babus. Have to give them credit for that. Not much scope of uncertainty there, buying coal will only further economic activity and bringing in monthly payments. Not at all connected to real time trading. OT here probably.
Theo_Fidel

Re: Indian Economy - News & Discussion Oct 12 2013

Post by Theo_Fidel »

Suraj wrote: If you follow Bloomberg or some other news source, you'll see references to some distant entity like the Belgian School Teachers Pension Fund or the Norwegian Derrick Operators Pension Fund complaining about governance practices at some valley IT company because they hold a stake in that company.
What else can this imply saar.
--------------
TSJ,

The question is on regulation concerning what they can do with their money. A pension fund operates with deposits seeking investments and returns. An insurance reserve is very different beast and regulated by the states involved. If they do operate together the two pools of money must be kept separate as they are regulated differently.
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Re: Indian Economy - News & Discussion Oct 12 2013

Post by Suraj »

It implies that distant pension funds - who are categorized as institutional investors just as insurance companies are - may own such substantial shares of valley company stocks that they speak up publicly on corporate governance concerns. Anything more is really a misunderstanding on your part.
Theo_Fidel

Re: Indian Economy - News & Discussion Oct 12 2013

Post by Theo_Fidel »

If I misunderstand saar it is because it was brought it into the conversation by yourself saar. :)

AFAIK there was no question about the investor base. The question is on what is being done with an insurance companies reserve fund.

Again I would like to clarify that I'm reading extensively about scams that involve this exact chunk of cash. Take the case of Martin Frankel who I'm reading about right now. First he swindles investors of their Pension money and then he went after the reserve fund of the insurance company he bought. It was found to be highly illegal and he was sent to prison for 11 years. I just find it odd that GOI would be messing about with the same chunk of cash.
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Re: Indian Economy - News & Discussion Oct 12 2013

Post by Suraj »

There's no reference to LIC being compelled to utilize any kind of reserve fund for the CIL portfolio addition. Their investment portfolio itself is so vast that buying half the CIL stake sale is not even 1% of it.
Theo_Fidel

Re: Indian Economy - News & Discussion Oct 12 2013

Post by Theo_Fidel »

Suraj wrote:There's no reference to LIC being compelled to utilize any kind of reserve fund for the CIL portfolio addition.
That may very well be but it doesn’t pass the smell test does it. Smells like the same old karuvadu…. ..nothing will change at CIL meantime....
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Re: Indian Economy - News & Discussion Oct 12 2013

Post by Suraj »

What smell test is this ? I'm curious exactly what the opposition to the whole thing is about. First, the suggestion was that public monies are being spend to recapitalize CIL via stake sale, but it isn't. Then that LIC is being forced to, but they're an organ of GoI, which means GoI's just forcing itself, which is what we want it to do, right - get down to business and do things rather than be constantly gunshy and just talk ?

People willingly hand LIC money knowing fully well they're a GoI owned organization and will invest based on GoI imperatives, which is exactly what they did here, and quite effectively too. They neutered the CIL strike, which would have been crippling, and managed to conduct a fully subscribed $4 billion stake sale at very short notice.

What would you rather have ? A stake sale announcement, followed by strike, and then the stake sale plan is dumped, and the same old case of large disinvestment targets and actual outcomes nowhere close ? Instead of making vague allegations, why not say what you'd like them to do ?
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Re: Indian Economy - News & Discussion Oct 12 2013

Post by Suraj »

Centre plans Rs.20,000cr ($3.1 billion) spending on 3 greenfield ports at Dahanu, Vijaydurg and Revas in Maharashtra
The Government of India is preparing a plan to develop new ports at Dahanu, Vijaydurg and Revas in Maharashtra, in association with the state government and the private sector.

The total investment is estimated to be at least Rs 20,000 crore and each port is expected to handle 40 million tonnes of cargo annually.

Nitin Gadkari, the Union minister in charge of ports, told Business Standard: ''The development of these will be under the Centre's integrated ports development plan, wherein ports, roads and railway network will be simultaneously developed. The ministry has completed the initial study on these ports and held talks with the Maharashtra government for its involvement.''

Gadkari said the aim was to decongest Jawaharlal Nehru Port (JNP, at Navi Mumbai) and Mumbai Port.

Revas was to be earlier developed by Reliance Industries but this could not proceed due to problems on dredging and mangroves.

Gadkari said he hoped the proposed Dedicated Freight Corridor from JNP to Delhi, eight-laning of the Mumbai-Pune Highway and its connectivity with the soon to be widened Mumbai-Goa highway would help JNP move its container traffic more efficiently.
December core output at 3-month low of 2.4%
Cement production rose only 3.8 per cent, against 11.3 per cent in November. This was despite a low base of 1.2 per cent in December 2013. Growth in electricity generation was down to 3.7 per cent from double-digit growth rates in the previous two months. Electricity generation has expanded at double-digit rates in six of the first nine months of this financial year. The slowdown in its growth — if that persists for a few months — will have adverse impact on other industries, too.

Coupled with steel production, which fell 2.4 per cent in December, a marginal rise in cement production signifies a slowdown in construction.

Besides, natural gas production contracted 3.5 per cent, fertilisers 1.6 per cent and crude oil 1.4 per cent. These industries had fallen 2.9 per cent, 0.1 per cent and 2.8 per cent, respectively, in November.

Coal production saw the biggest growth (7.5 per cent), against 14.5 per cent in November. However, that could be because of a low base of 1.1 per cent in December 2013. It was followed by refinery products, which grew 6.1 per cent, against 8.1 per cent in November. Again, the base was too low for this industry — the production had declined 1.9 per cent in December 2013.
Manufacturing PMI at three-month low in Jan
In January, India’s manufacturing activities expanded at a three-month-low pace, as orders moderated, showed the widely-tracked HSBC purchasing managers' index (PMI) on Monday. This was after the country’s manufacturing sector clocked a two-year-high rate of growth in December.

Meanwhile, a day before the Reserve Bank of India’s review of its monetary policy, the rate of inflation eased further — according to the PMI survey — raising expectations the central might advance a cut in the policy rate.

PMI declined to 52.9 points in January, compared with 54.5 in December. The index had stood at 53.3 points in November. A reading above 50 points shows expansion while one below that implies contraction.

Markit Economics, which compiles the PMI data, however, down-played the slower rate of growth in manufacturing activities. “Despite falling from December’s two-year-high level, the headline index remained consistent, with a solid improvement in business conditions in January,” it said.

Also, the expansion in India’s manufacturing sector during the month was not as slow as some other emerging-market peers. China’s, for example, saw contraction for a second straight month. Manufacturing PMI for that country stood at 49.7 in January, data showed.

In the official data, consumer goods remained a drag, particularly the durables segment. For instance, consumer durables contracted 14.5 per cent in November last year, against a fall of 21.7 per cent a year ago. The durables also declined 15.9 per cent in the first eight months of 2014-15, against 12.6 per cent a year earlier.

The growth rate for new export business moderated in January, after having accelerated to the highest since April 2011 the previous month. But the overall pace of expansion was, nonetheless, solid and stronger than the historical average, Markit Economics said.

However, official data showed exports contracted in December as well, after a fall in October.

Growth of output and new business continued to have little impact on employment in January, as work force numbers rose only marginally during the month.

“Concurrently, backlogs of work rose at the fastest rate in a year, with some companies commenting on capacity pressures being applied by rising order book volumes,” Markit Economics said.
Theo_Fidel

Re: Indian Economy - News & Discussion Oct 12 2013

Post by Theo_Fidel »

Suraj wrote:Instead of making vague allegations, why not say what you'd like them to do ?
I don't know what vague allegations you are talking about. My only observations is GOI has raided the reserve fund of LIC to buy the disinvestment of CIL shares. Wyfor you bring in strike and GOI owned and public confidence, etc into this. Not to mention the half dozen other items you have brought in as far I can see quite randomly.

I want the GOI influence on these business sectors to reduce. Ideally terminate pronto. Selling the shares of one PSU to another PSU seems a weak way to achieve this. I look forward to the day LIC is privatised. Hopefully not with another PSU buying its shares.
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Re: Indian Economy - News & Discussion Oct 12 2013

Post by ShauryaT »

The crux of the question is, were the best interests of the subscribers of LIC protected. Was the investment made using commercially reasonable means and objectives. If yes, then no harm done, else the subscribers of LIC have been short changed. There are many other "ideal" scenarios for this type of a transaction but there is also the issue of what can be done right now.
Last edited by ShauryaT on 03 Feb 2015 07:46, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Indian Economy - News & Discussion Oct 12 2013

Post by Suraj »

Theo_Fidel wrote:
Suraj wrote:Instead of making vague allegations, why not say what you'd like them to do ?
I don't know what vague allegations you are talking about. My only observations is GOI has raided the reserve fund of LIC to buy the disinvestment of CIL shares.
What is this 'reserve fund of LIC' in the first place ? And where is your data showing this so called reserve fund was used, as opposed to their general corpus ? They have an investment portfolio valued at more than the GDP of all our neighbors excl PRC. PSU divested holdings are popular among large institutional investors, of which LIC is one of the biggest, if not the biggest. If they hold 5% of that portfolio in cash, that's more than enough to buy the entire CIL stake sale thrice over.
Theo_Fidel wrote:I want the GOI influence on these business sectors to reduce. Ideally terminate pronto. Selling the shares of one PSU to another PSU seems a weak way to achieve this. I look forward to the day LIC is privatised. Hopefully not with another PSU buying its shares.
They're not selling the stake of one PSU to another in the sense of balance sheet manipulation. I can agree with that if say, SAIL and CIL were compelled to implement some kind of cross share holding agreement. That amounts to a zero net gain balance sheet transaction. Here, the CIL shares are being absorbed by LIC's large investment corpus, which comprises mounting inflows from its insurance product sales. LIC is in the business of ensuring they invest that corpus and use it to manage their actuarial operations.

LIC disinvestment is on the cards, actually. Privatization doesn't mean the moral hazard goes away, it simply gets shifted. As to what I asked previously, there's still no answer to the basic question: "how would you do this differently ?" If it's "privatize LIC", then the counter is "how do you privatize it ?" Say you offer 60% of it tomorrow. The largest IPO ever. The winning bidder is the largest bank in the world - Industrial and Commercial Bank of China. No issues with that happening, right ?

My point is that it's easy to casually argue about how this is to be done, but the fact is GoI did what it needs to do with CIL, and LIC did what it needs to do with the money it gets for its policies. As Deng Xiaoping said, who cares if the cat is black or white as long as it catches the mouse ?
gakakkad
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Re: Indian Economy - News & Discussion Oct 12 2013

Post by gakakkad »

A_Gupta wrote:More on GDP revisions:
http://mospi.nic.in/Mospi_New/upload/na ... 0jan15.pdf

Hidden in this press release , is the evidence of why our GDP growth rate slowed in the UPA era.

Points 15 to 18

15. Gross Capital Formation (GCF) at current and constant prices is estimated by two
approaches – (i) through flow of funds, derived as Gross Saving plus net capital inflow from
abroad; and (ii) by the commodity flow approach, derived by the type of assets. The estimates of
GCF through the flow of funds approach are treated as the firmer estimates, and the difference
between the two approaches is taken as “errors and omissions”. However, GCF by industry of use
and by institutional sectors does not include “valuables”, and therefore, these estimates are lower
than the estimates available from commodity flow.
16. Gross Capital Formation (GCF) at current prices is estimated as Rs. 33.7 lakh crore for the
year 2011-12, while the estimates for both the years 2012-13 and 2013-14 stand at Rs. 36.6 lakh
crore. Since GCF did not increase during 2013-14, the rate to GDP declined during the year to 32.3
percent as against 36.6 during 2012-13. The rate of GCF to GDP excluding valuables stands at 33.9
percent and 31 percent during 2012-13 and 2013-14 respectively. The rate of capital formation in
the years 2011-12 to 2013-14 has been higher than the rate of saving because of net capital inflow
from Rest of the World (ROW).

17. In terms of the share to the total GCF (at current prices), the highest contributor is Non-
Financial Corporations, with the share rising steadily from 46.6 percent in 2011-12 to 51.5 percent
in 2013-14. Share of household sector in GCF is also significant, which has declined from 42
percent in 2011-12 to 34.2 percent in 2013-14. The share of General Government in GCF has
increased from 10 percent in 2011-12 to 13.2 percent in 2013-14.

18. The rate of Gross Capital Formation at constant (2011-12) prices has decreased from 37.2 in
2012-13 to 33.4 in 2013-14.

19. Within the Gross Capital Formation at current prices, the Gross Fixed Capital Formation
(GFCF) amounted to Rs. 33.7 lakh crore in 2013-14 as against Rs. 31.4 lakh crore and Rs. 29.7
lakh crore in 2012-13 and 2011-12 respectively. The change in stocks of inventories, at current
prices, decreased from Rs. 2.2 lakh crore in 2011-12 to Rs. 1.8 lakh crore in 2013-14, while the
valuables decreased from Rs. 2.5 lakh crore in 2011-12 to Rs. 1.5 lakh crore in 2013-14.


What this basically shows is that overall capital formation reduced as a proportion of GDP from 2011 to 2014. And the reduction was largely due to reduction in household capital formation and corporate capital formation . The government capital formation however increased ...

further from tables it is evident that industry ,mining and construction activity stagnated or even declined..

this is the incriminating evidence of the inertia put by the UPA 2 ..The billions of dollars of projects that did not get cleared (jayanthi , raga whoever) and poor governance in general...

whatever growth that took place was largely due to increase in consumption , which was probably driven by infusion of liquidity directly to the market .(nrega etc) this partly explains the inflation...liquidity driven expenditure couple with supply side bottlenecks...

the gross parameters that we need to follow when monitoring Modi government besides the growth rate are various capital formation and savings ratios ..

anyway good to see the old crowd back ,with all the discussion and largely positive news about the economy...
Theo_Fidel

Re: Indian Economy - News & Discussion Oct 12 2013

Post by Theo_Fidel »

Suraj wrote:"how would you do this differently ?" If it's "privatize LIC", then the counter is "how do you privatize it ?" Say you offer 60% of it tomorrow. The largest IPO ever. The winning bidder is the largest bank in the world - Industrial and Commercial Bank of China. No issues with that happening, right ?
I think there are many many models out there on how to do this. Almost all the successful ones are carefully managed, for the markets full scrutiny and removes conflict of interest as much as possible. Even the USA government stepped in to prevent our Tallel than mountains 'friends' from squeezing in too close but only after the process was complete and only as a surgical strike.
Suraj
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Re: Indian Economy - News & Discussion Oct 12 2013

Post by Suraj »

Theo_Fidel wrote:I think there are many many models out there on how to do this. Almost all the successful ones are carefully managed, for the markets full scrutiny and removes conflict of interest as much as possible. Even the USA government stepped in to prevent our Tallel than mountains 'friends' from squeezing in too close but only after the process was complete and only as a surgical strike.
The US system eliminates conflict of interest in stake sales and IPOs ? :shock: If anything, what GoI is doing here is small potatoes compared to the amount of self-serving behavior that predominates at that level in the US.
geeth
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Re: Indian Economy - News & Discussion Oct 12 2013

Post by geeth »

10% equity was offered in the market and LIC like anybody else bid for it...If it was oversubscribed, say 4 times, LIC would have got a much smaller share. Now LIC can keep it and sell it for profit and pass the benefit to policy holders. How is it very different from mutual funds or private parties/ Banks conducting such operations?
Suraj
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Re: Indian Economy - News & Discussion Oct 12 2013

Post by Suraj »

RBI keeps repo rate unchanged at 7.75%, cuts SLR by 50bps to 21.5%
The Reserve Bank of India (RBI) in its sixth bi-monthly monetary policy review, 2014-15 today kept the key rates unchanged. The repo rate was unchanged at 7.75% and the reverse repo rate at 6.75%. But, RBI has cut SLR by 50 basis points to 21.5%, effective February 7.

On January 16, 2015, RBI governor Raghuram Rajan announced his first rate cut since being appointed RBI governor in August 2013. The move prompted a near-unanimous opinion that this could be the beginning of a new interest rate easing cycle.

Though the Reserve Bank of India (RBI) cut the interest rate on January 15, but market entities had recently told Business Standard that they expected another in the monetary policy review announced today.

While the softening of retail inflation provided RBI Governor Raghuram Rajan with room to cut rates in January, the government's renewed commitment to sticking to the mid-term fiscal roadmap provides room for further easing, said experts. The central bank's medium-term objective was to contain the rise of the Consumer Price Index-based inflation below 6%.

Rajan reiterated the need to see further data confirming disinflationary pressures and “high-quality fiscal consolidation”.

“Given that there have been no substantial new developments on the disinflationary process or on the fiscal outlook since January 15, it is appropriate for the Reserve Bank to await them and maintain the current interest rate stance,” Rajan said in a statement.
Sounds like the latest inflation numbers released yesterday was too late to influence the RBI, and they'll wait until the Union Budget later this month before a new look.
Neshant
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Re: Indian Economy - News & Discussion Oct 12 2013

Post by Neshant »

Its a real bad idea that we are copying the failed concept of "wise man in the ivory tower setting interest rate" that western nations use.

The market should be setting interest rates and not some guy who is price fixing as if he were the market. Inevitably, he fools himself into thinking he knows how to guide the economy when in reality he's just flying things by the seat of his pants - in the case of Bernanke into a mountain side.

The central banker scam has got to go!
Yagnasri
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Re: Indian Economy - News & Discussion Oct 12 2013

Post by Yagnasri »

I am also of the view that the Central Banker drama has to go. May be a 100% gold backed currency. With our nation gold reserves, we can have such a new currency which will ensure people have full confidence on it. Let us not forget gold was the main currency for most of the human existence and we have huge % of overground gold with us. The total amount of paper rupees in curculation today said to be 12 Lakh Cr in paper rupees. We can issue that much gold backed currency with a portion of the gold reserves we have. It can be done in steps and only digital currency can be issued. Deposits in gold with interest and loans in gold with interest can also be done. It is said we have some 20K tons of gold in our nation. 20% of that is 4K tons and at 250-300 Cr paper rupees per ton, we have 10-12 Lakh Cr digital currency in circulation most of which will replace paper rupees. Why we need gora dollers as foreign investment then?

But these ideas are too radical. I am sure no one will agree with me.
nandakumar
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Re: Indian Economy - News & Discussion Oct 12 2013

Post by nandakumar »

Some background on LIC's investment operations. Haridas Mundhra, an industrialist and a veteran stock market punter manipulated the shares of his company with some active help from LIC. The scam was exposed by Feroze Gandhi who had by then fallen out with Nehru and some say, even Indira Gandhi. The scandal led to the resignation of TTK who was the finance minister. TTK claimed that he was innocent but the fact remained that there were instructions from the then Finance Secretary to ask LIC to invest in the shares of the company. This naturally led to questions about how LIC's investment operations were managed. The scandal resulted in the constituion of an invetment committee comprising outside experts from industry, finance and economics whose approval, either prior or post facto, is necessary for every investment of LIC. So there is some institutional safeguard against government nfluence on investment decisions of LIC. Though the committee is expected to decide based on majority view, in practice, only such investments proposals as are approved unanimously by all members are undertaken.
Though it is a statutory corporation with a paid up capital contributed by the GOI, in substance it is a mutual benefit (policyholders) entity. The surpluses of premium and investment incomes that remain after meeting claim payments and operating expenses are credited back to the policyholders' fund (called the Life Fund) to the tune of 95% of such surplus. The balance is paid out by way of dividend to the Centre. Though it is described as a dividend, in reality it is a fee paid by LIC for the Government guaranteeing the amount due on an insurance policy.
Every two years an acturial assessment is made of the future claims on LIC and if the amount accumulated in the Life Fund is in excess of such acturial assessment of future claims, the excess is credited back to the policyholders as bonus.
On a sidenote, HM Patel ICS, was the finane Secretary then. Under the terms of the agreement for Transfer of Power, not only were the salary and pension benefits of ICS officers kept outside the jurisdiction of Indian Government, they were subjected to disciplinary actions only by a committee of their peers! A committee of ICS officers went into the conduct of HM Patel. Both TTK and Patel deposed before this committee. The former denied having given any instructions to the Finance Secretary. But Patel insisted that he was acting on the oral instructions of the FM. The committee gave its ruling saying that though there is no documentary evidence or file notings, they believed the Finance Secretary rather than the minister!
gakakkad
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Re: Indian Economy - News & Discussion Oct 12 2013

Post by gakakkad »

I have a different take on the central bank issue.. IMO RBI has saved India from certain collapse ,due to some of the most insane fiscal and economic policies that various regimes came up with. One might remember the conflicts Subbarao had with Chidu or Reddy had with various UPA ministers... They were quite hawkish in inflation control and made gov't borrowing for various populist schemes difficult .

some old articles that illustrate the conflict..

http://articles.economictimes.indiatime ... solidation

http://www.rediff.com/money/2009/mar/30 ... he-rbi.htm
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