Indian Missiles and Munitions Discussion - June'14

member_22733 · Post by **member_22733** » 05 Feb 2015 08:42

Does DRDO have a fellowship program? No domain expert should ever let go. They should have an honorary post with a bunch of PhD, post docs working for them on some critical future tech.

Philip · Post by **Philip** » 05 Feb 2015 10:12

Sorry,the site is pure Paki crap.Deleted.

ravip · Post by **ravip** » 05 Feb 2015 13:12

don't vouch for authenticity, but too many details to be false.
http://corruptionindrdo.com/2015/02/03/ ... %E0%A5%8D/

Singha · Post by **Singha** » 05 Feb 2015 14:17

I am letting this post stand for now...

Thakur_B · Post by **Thakur_B** » 05 Feb 2015 19:33

Brahmos looking for $10 Billion worth of orders till 2020. The current orders stand at $6 Billion.
http://www.spslandforces.com/exclusive/ ... rs-By-2020

shaun · Post by **shaun** » 05 Feb 2015 19:35

recent sets of successful tests specially with missile tech. not going well for some people or agencies ...!!

Singha · Post by **Singha** » 05 Feb 2015 21:02

Who is data

One Prabhu dandriyal dehradun

ramana · Post by **ramana** » 05 Feb 2015 21:06

PTI news report said the letter transferring Dr. R.K. Gupta was dated Jan 9th but delivered on Feb2.

LINK

...Gupta has complained to the ministry that he received the letter, dated January 9, only on February 2 when he reached his office after the successful launch.

Looks like MoD was remiss in not curtailing powers of sacked officials.
They need to see if this was retaliation or routine move.

Retaliation will inhibit whistle blowing/complaints.

Prem · Post by **Prem** » 05 Feb 2015 22:35

Wondering if its the work of same lobby which was sidelined after disputing 98 test result since Now they have ear of new administration.

Karan M · Post by **Karan M** » 06 Feb 2015 01:20

ramana wrote:PTI news report said the letter transferring Dr. R.K. Gupta was dated Jan 9th but delivered on Feb2.

LINK

...Gupta has complained to the ministry that he received the letter, dated January 9, only on February 2 when he reached his office after the successful launch.
Looks like MoD was remiss in not curtailing powers of sacked officials.
They need to see if this was retaliation or routine move.

Retaliation will inhibit whistle blowing/complaints.

But complaints have to be through some process.. the GOI does have systems in place for that.
This Dandriyal is basically an embittered guy who is running a propaganda campaign and will do anything and everything to get his two minutes of fame. In countries with better legal frameworks he would be hauled up for slander by many. In India, since GOI is least bothered about ringfencing or even supporting its own people, folks like Dandriyal, arms vendors, journos all make hay with disinfo masquerading as truth seekers.

ramdas · Post by **ramdas** » 06 Feb 2015 01:22

Karanji,

It appears that Dr. R K Gupta was not terminated from DRDO. He has only been moved to some position other than ``Project Director, Agni V". As far as I can see, his position of ``Scientist H" does not change either. Moreover, he appears to have at least 5 years of service left (even if he gets no extension). There however, appears to be a personality clash with Tessy Thomas, which is unfortunate.

GoI should quickly find a successor to Dr. Chander. It should avoid terminating the extension of Dr. Sekaran merely on the basis of this complaint by Dr. Gupta. In any case, Dr. Sekaran is probably close to 62, which means that GoI could wait for his current extension to end of it does not want Dr. Sekaran to continue. IMHO, however, this is NOT a good idea. Even if those on extension are not to be given director posts, they could be on extension as "Scientist H" and their services could continue to be utilized. This is the wise thing to do.

ramdas · Post by **ramdas** » 06 Feb 2015 01:25

All in all, I feel that the media is blowing a relatively routine internal transfer in DRDO out of proportion. Even news articles indicate that with Agni-V no longer a system under development (it is entering production and induction phase), the DRDO/ASL authorities thought that Dr. Gupta's services could be more profitably used elsewhere. Sounds reasonable.

Why the media is blowing things out of proportion should be clear to those who have followed its behavior over the last many years...

Nikhil T · Post by **Nikhil T** » 06 Feb 2015 02:46

Sid wrote:Seriously... GOI should keep internal conflicts internal. IMHO he got booted because they went ahead with A5 ( to show solidarity with AC ) with no NaMo there. A wild guess.

Whatever they are doing its not good.

This was my first instinct too, but I think its impossible. If GoI wanted Agni 5 test launch delayed, it only had to make a phone call. DRDO is not TSP Army that a civilian directive is considered an advice. Plus, with Agni 5's reach, the test had to be preceded by a NOTAM to airliners and many other formalities that lie in the civilian domain. The GoI could have easily delayed the test if it sensed that DRDO was reluctant to do it.

I think the PMO has a few complaints that we in the public domain are not aware of. Successive Govts have been very sensitive to DRDO's missile projects and its hard to believe that the current Govt would disturb that.

Prem Kumar · Post by **Prem Kumar** » 06 Feb 2015 03:36

This Dandriyal leaks smell suspiciously like the ISRO Spy Case (Nambi Narayanan being victimized, setting us back by a decade in Cryogenics). There are a LOT of countries who would like to scuttle DRDO's missile program just when its about to take off in a big way. And then try to re-enter this vacated space via the Make In India program using dubious Indian front-companies like OIS Advanced Technology Private Limited

Parikkar is new to the job. The Services complain to him about lack of equipment. There is pressure on him from Modi to perform. There are probably some Make in India (MII) targets he has been given by Modi to achieve. After UPA's exit, the Government is rightfully stocking up ammo almost on a war-footage. Ripe time for lots of dalals & newstraders to package old wine (offsets) in new bottle (MII) and trying to sell it to a gullible Parikkar.

Cosmo_R · Post by **Cosmo_R** » 06 Feb 2015 03:46

Prem Kumar wrote:This Dandriyal leaks smell suspiciously like the ISRO Spy Case (Nambi Narayanan being victimized, setting us back by a decade in Cryogenics). There are a LOT of countries who would like to scuttle DRDO's missile program just when its about to take off in a big way. And then try to re-enter this vacated space via the Make In India program using dubious Indian front-companies like OIS Advanced Technology Private Limited

Parikkar is new to the job. The Services complain to him about lack of equipment. There is pressure on him from Modi to perform. There are probably some Make in India (MII) targets he has been given by Modi to achieve. After UPA's exit, the Government is rightfully stocking up ammo almost on a war-footage. Ripe time for lots of dalals & newstraders to package old wine (offsets) in new bottle (MII) and trying to sell it to a gullible Parikkar.

Is OIS dubious?

Prem Kumar · Post by **Prem Kumar** » 06 Feb 2015 03:54

See R&D Thread. Superb takedown by Sagar G

Sabyasachi · Post by **Sabyasachi** » 06 Feb 2015 06:01

Prem Kumar wrote:This Dandriyal leaks smell suspiciously like the ISRO Spy Case (Nambi Narayanan being victimized, setting us back by a decade in Cryogenics). There are a LOT of countries who would like to scuttle DRDO's missile program just when its about to take off in a big way. And then try to re-enter this vacated space via the Make In India program using dubious Indian front-companies like OIS Advanced Technology Private Limited

Parikkar is new to the job. The Services complain to him about lack of equipment. There is pressure on him from Modi to perform. There are probably some Make in India (MII) targets he has been given by Modi to achieve. After UPA's exit, the Government is rightfully stocking up ammo almost on a war-footage. Ripe time for lots of dalals & newstraders to package old wine (offsets) in new bottle (MII) and trying to sell it to a gullible Parikkar.

Is is OK to float so many conspiracy theories in a threads like this. Can't we discuss these theories when there will credible information of India's missile program got stalled delayed or derailed because of such departmental transfers

?

member_24684 · Post by **member_24684** » 06 Feb 2015 07:56

.

Anti Shipping or Land Attack variant

Vayutuvan · Post by **Vayutuvan** » 06 Feb 2015 09:09

Prem Kumar wrote:... a gullible Parikkar.

Prem Kumar ji: My impression - I confess that it is second hand information - is that he is far from gullible. My understanding is that he is exactly the opposite. Let us wait and see. May be the game is to make the opposition under-estimate him somewhat.

abhik · Post by **abhik** » 06 Feb 2015 09:31

AFAIK even tanks fire from stationary positions as far as possible.

Karan M · Post by **Karan M** » 06 Feb 2015 09:33

matrimc wrote:
Prem Kumar wrote:... a gullible Parikkar.
Prem Kumar ji: My impression - I confess that it is second hand information - is that he is far from gullible. My understanding is that he is exactly the opposite. Let us wait and see. May be the game is to make the opposition under-estimate him somewhat.

My perception has been he is a shoot first, consider all issues later sort. Has challenges at the national level where media /vested interests are waiting eagerly for slipups.

Karan M · Post by **Karan M** » 06 Feb 2015 09:36

abhik wrote:AFAIK even tanks fire from stationary positions as far as possible.

The fire on the move capability in modern FCS allows them to fire on the move. SOP is to fire when advancing at a steady pace, ~10 -15 kmph or reduce speed. Earlier, they would engage in short stops & fire.

Thakur_B · Post by **Thakur_B** » 06 Feb 2015 12:59

R K Gupta's transfer has been put on hold by Parrikar.
https://twitter.com/thaparvishal/status ... 9165078529

shaun · Post by **shaun** » 06 Feb 2015 18:02

Karan M wrote:
abhik wrote:AFAIK even tanks fire from stationary positions as far as possible.
The fire on the move capability in modern FCS allows them to fire on the move. SOP is to fire when advancing at a steady pace, ~10 -15 kmph or reduce speed. Earlier, they would engage in short stops & fire.

Arjun can fire on the move, at a speed of 20 km/h .....correct it if wrong .

Karan M · Post by **Karan M** » 06 Feb 2015 18:32

Those are test standards.. in reality it can fire at higher speeds, but tests validate optimal Pk. 20 kmph/Arjun with target @ 20Kmph - relative speed counts..

Sid · Post by **Sid** » 06 Feb 2015 18:57

Arjun can technically fire at any speed since it will have a tube launched ATGM. Just point and shoot.

Karan M · Post by **Karan M** » 06 Feb 2015 19:17

Even that ATGM will be limited by tech limits of stabilized FCS + trials at which it shows best Pk.
Remember ATGM is guided by tank so it becomes even more important.
FSAPDS is point and shoot & fuggedaboutit

Sid · Post by **Sid** » 06 Feb 2015 19:41

Karam, LAHAT for one could use designation by secondary unit. Since it has exceptional range (6+ KM), forward units will be required to designate the target.

In close quarter (IA requirement for >1500m), yes you are correct it will require designation mostly from tank itself. In this case tank might want to go slow if gunner wants to keep target in sight.

But depends on that type of seeker we end up with in Indian version of LAHAT. If we get a seeker like NAG, maybe we will have true fire and forget capability (but at the cost of range).

unguided rounds are fire & pray (that it hits the target)

Singha · Post by **Singha** » 06 Feb 2015 20:57

Lahat is cancelled.
Apds will cover 2kms in 1.5 secs atgm is far far slower

shaun · Post by **shaun** » 06 Feb 2015 22:25

LAHAT was cancelled for good reasons , CLGM may have dual seekers , where it can be lased to the target and end game performed by IR seekers thus reducing the vulnerability of the attacking platform.

Singha · Post by **Singha** » 07 Feb 2015 08:28

IBNLIVE:

New Delhi: A day after the project director of nuclear-capable Agni 5 missile programme at DRDO RK Gupta was removed, a letter has surfaced in which he has claimed that he was targeted by former DRDO chief Avinash Chander.

"I feel dishonoured the way I was treated. I smell malicious intention. My whole family is undergoing mental agony. In case of any untoward incident or accident, I fix responsibility on Dr Avinash Chander and Dr VG Sekaran," Gupta writes in his letter.

Gupta was removed as director of Agni V programme a day after a successful test. While DRDO sources termed the transfer as "routine", the officer alleged that he was singled out by two senior officials within the organisation including former chief Avinash Chander, who demitted his office on January 31.

I smell malicious intention by DRDO officials, claims former Agni V programme director RK Gupta

While DRDO sources termed the transfer as "routine", the officer alleged that he was singled out by two senior officials within the organisation including former chief Avinash Chander, who demitted his office on January 31.

Gupta has complained to the Defence Ministry that he received the letter, dated January 9, only on February 2 when he reached his office after the successful launch.

"With all humility and respect, I wish to bring to your notice that on February 2, I was relinquished from the post of project director Agni-V. I am shocked that such bad treatment is meted out to such a senior scientist with an excellent track record throughout service tenure," he said in his letter to Defence Secretary RK Mathur, who is also holding the additional charge of DRDO.

Incidentally, Gupta's name had come up in connection with the sudden termination of Chander's contract by the government, 15 months ahead of his tenure.

It was then rumoured that one of the reasons for Chander's removal was three complaints filed by individuals including by Gupta who has denied any such move.

Singha · Post by **Singha** » 07 Feb 2015 08:30

what seems likely is all the top level H scientists might retire prematurely due to infighting if this goes on much longer.

and none of this can be ascribed to external forces (though they will be really happy) as these issues must have been boiling under the surface for some time now.

Prem · Post by **Prem** » 07 Feb 2015 10:28

I think Defence Minister have intervened and cancelled the transfer . Gupta Ji will be staying , running the A5 show.

shaun · Post by **shaun** » 09 Feb 2015 09:35

Got this from here http://www.larsentoubro.com/lntcorporat ... 090813.pdf

Sid · Post by **Sid** » 09 Feb 2015 10:04

^^ nice find. Eight cell launcher for LRSAM. Wonder why they state the system as launcher for MRSAM?

Indranil · Post by **Indranil** » 09 Feb 2015 10:18

It is for the IAF. LRSAM for Navy is MRSAM for IAF.

Singha · Post by **Singha** » 09 Feb 2015 11:36

but isnt that a misnomer since the iaf version is reported to be 120km and navy is 70km.

srin · Post by **srin** » 09 Feb 2015 11:50

Singha wrote:but isnt that a misnomer since the iaf version is reported to be 120km and navy is 70km.

No - not from the respective service perspective...

For the navy, LRSAM will be its longest range AD system.
For the airforce, MRSAM (though with greater range than IN's LRSAM) is not the full range that it wants. It is a statement of intent that it will acquire even longer range SAMs, perhaps like those of S-400 system (>200 km range)

rakall · Post by **rakall** » 09 Feb 2015 15:27

Boys is this a "refined or revised" version of Agni1..
Previously Agni1 has 4 aft fins.. this picture shows Agni1 without the aft-fins -- similar to the 1st stage of Agni4.

Looks like Agni1 is undergoing further refinements - incorporating the new tech validated on Agni4.

Sooper & very interesting !!

Singha · Post by **Singha** » 09 Feb 2015 15:32

no fins => flex nozzles and it is headed for cansister launch.
the hot exposed launch systems needs a high clearance off the ground to not burn whatever is below and makes the TELAR too big for the missile size...like above....cansister launch will make the telars more right size.