Intelligence and National Security Discussion

Nikhil T
BRFite
Posts: 1286
Joined: 09 Nov 2008 06:48
Location: RAW HQ, Lodhi Road

Re: Intelligence and National Security Discussion

Postby Nikhil T » 23 Jan 2015 02:58

Several ex-PMs compromised India's 'deep assets': RM Parrikar

Defence Minister Manohar Parrikar on Wednesday alleged that some former prime ministers had compromised the country's ‘deep assets’ on national security but refrained from naming them.

Parrikar said he did not give details about Coast Guard operation involving a boat coming from Pakistan as the ‘source (of information) might be compromised’.

"After all, you have to build deep assets. Deep assets are created over 20-30 years. Sadly, there were some prime ministers who compromised deep assets. "I am not going to disclose names. Many people know," Parrikar said after releasing a special issue of the Hindi weekly Vivek, on national security.

Taunting the Congress for demanding evidence on the recent Coast Guard operation against a Pakistani vessel carrying suspected terrorists, he said, "There was demand for giving proof (that it was a Pakistani terror vessel). Next time, during such operation we will take along a (media) cameraman and also the Congress spokesperson.

"However, now a days nothing can be said with certainty as Congress spokespersons say good things about Modi government," Parrikar said taking a swipe at Janardhan Dwivedi.

Parrikar said there were differing perceptions between India and China on the Line of Actual Control. "We have not taken the issue of border security seriously. If war were to take place and at the same time if there were riots in some parts of the country, it would be difficult (situation)," Parrikar said.

Highlighting the need for the media to exercise restraint on sensitive issues such as the terror attacks, Parrikar compared the TV coverage of recent Paris terror attacks and the 26/11 Mumbai attacks.

"In Paris, not a single body was shown and not a drop of blood was seen on TV. Contrast this to our live coverage. I am not criticising but we should have this sense," he said

Similarly the real reason for what happened after Godhra incident in 2002 was the disturbing photos shown (by media)," Parrikar said. "Somebody may file a PIL complaining that the decibel level of firing on the border exceeds 140 decibels after 10 pm norms and that it disturbs their sleep," Parrikar said.

"The only exception is loudspeakers atop certain holy places where nobody objects even if the loudspeakers blare till 1 am," he said. Parrikar said he plans to send defence ministry officials to border for 15 days to sensitise them on hardships faced by the armed forces.

"Then maybe several files will be cleared fast," the Defence Minister said.


As many had suspected on BRF, the Coast Guard op had its inputs from within TSP - thus the dithering in releasing information.

jamwal
BR Mainsite Crew
Posts: 5152
Joined: 19 Feb 2008 21:28
Location: Somewhere Else
Contact:

Re: Intelligence and National Security Discussion

Postby jamwal » 23 Jan 2015 12:35

Post made by some random user on another website. Take it for what it's worth:
http://www.reddit.com/r/india/comments/ ... _parrikar/

My dad is active in the RSS circle and so is my grand dad and everyone in the family.

Parrikar was in Mumbai.. precisely at Borivali for some meeting / interactions yesterday. My dad alongwith other RSS walas and Sangh chalaks went down to meet him and had a hour long talk with him.

Infact, my dad spoke to him for a good 15 mins. We are from a border district of Rajasthan with approx. 200 km common boundary with Mr.Pakistan. They talked about reduction in infiltation and smugling because of fencing done at the border, 1971 war, a proposed railway line from Gujrat to Rajasthan along the border among other things.

Details of the talk -

Fencing: Infiltration and Smugling has stopped drastically after the fencing project was taken up by the Defence Ministry.

1971: My grand dad and Major Kuldeep Singh Chandpuri (Sunny Deol in Border... remember) were good friends when he was posted at the Longewala post. After the Longewala victory when Chandpuri came to the town, my grand dad hugged him and congratulated him. The first words he said were 'Jawaan border pe apna lal khoon bahate hain, aur aap neeli shyahi se dastakhat kar sab mita aate hain.' He was referring the agreement signed by the Indira government with Pakistan giving back all land captured by India in retaliating action, after the war.

'Aap' here did not mean my grand dad.. but a general term used for politicians which again my grand dad was not but since he was the Sanghchalak for one of the biggest districts in the country, was being referred to as such.

Rail line: India has a continuous rail line running along its border areas in Gujrat, Punjab, southern and northern Rajasthan, Himachal, southern J&K, Harayana, alongside Nepal and Bhutan. The connectivity is absent at Western Rajasthan apart from war torn Kashmir and Northeast. This connectivity in Rajasthan is the need for the hour in order to ensure rapid movement of troops and supplies along the border. Mr. Parrikar agreed to this and talks with railways are in progress to complete the route survey which was initiated in the previous rail budgets.

Dad also noticed the simplicity of Parrikar. Black sandals, open out shirt, no taam jhaam around him like erstwhile Neta log.

All in all, he was very happy and optimistic for the defence sector which is currently in shambles coz of Antony and Ms. Gandhi.

NRao
BRF Oldie
Posts: 16814
Joined: 01 Jan 1970 05:30
Location: Illini Nation

Re: Intelligence and National Security Discussion

Postby NRao » 23 Jan 2015 13:00


As many had suspected on BRF, the Coast Guard op had its inputs from within TSP - thus the dithering in releasing information.


IF the intel included what clothes the rats were wearing .......................................you HAD to have someone "deep".

Good.

Hari Seldon
BRF Oldie
Posts: 9255
Joined: 27 Jul 2009 12:47
Location: University of Trantor

Re: Intelligence and National Security Discussion

Postby Hari Seldon » 23 Jan 2015 14:54

Saw a youtube vid of some press conference a day ago in which Parikkar basically says "I can't talk about what we are doing ... but you will see results by the summer".

Such words warm the jingo heart.

Anyone seen that video? Anyone have a link? Pls share.


Vipul
BRF Oldie
Posts: 3727
Joined: 15 Jan 2005 03:30

Re: Intelligence and National Security Discussion

Postby Vipul » 25 Jan 2015 08:49

Talks on, US, India seek close ties in intelligence-sharing.

The US and India have begun discussions on a intelligence-sharing pact that could tie the two countries’ covert services into one of the closest partnerships the superpower has outside of the “Five Eyes” Treaty signed by the five English-speaking powers after World War II, highly-placed government sources have told The Sunday Express.

First raised ahead of Prime Minister Narendra Modi’s summit meeting with President Barack Obama in September, the discussions on the pact will be reviewed by the two leaders on Sunday, the sources said.

The pact would enable India access to encrypted digital traffic its intelligence services are now unable to decipher. It would also make state-of-the-art western espionage technology available to the Directorate of Military Intelligence and the National Technical Research Organisation.

The push for a closer intelligence relationship, the sources said, comes from the US Department of Defence, and its reputedly Indophile secretary, Ashton Carter. It also has the backing of former National Security Council staff President Obama has brought into key positions in the White House.

Interestingly, the new US envoy to New Delhi, Richard Verma, earlier worked in the National Security Council, having joined after serving in the United States Air Force.

Experts George Perkovich and Toby Dalton are among several influential figures who have backed the push, writing last year that the US “needs to be more forthcoming in sharing intelligence with India and holding Pakistan to account for its ambivalent counter-terrorism performance”. “Five Eyes”, signed in 1946, tied the governments of the US, United Kingdom, Canada, Australia and New Zealand into what is today the largest intelligence gathering network in the world, using listening stations across the world and a string of dedicated satellites, to gather virtually all internet, telecommunications and satellite traffic. It is also thought to have the largest capabilities for breaking encrypted traffic, centred around the US National Security Agency.

In addition to Five Eyes, the post-9/11 world has seen the emergence of several affiliates: Nine Eyes, which added France, Denmark, Norway and the Netherlands; and Fourteen Eyes, which added Germany, Belgium, Italy, Spain and Sweden to Nine Eyes. The US also has similar arrangements with closely allied states such as South Korea, Singapore and Japan.

Ever since the 1990s, when the European Parliament conducted an investigation of Five Eyes’ ECHELON electronic-intelligence gathering system, there have been repeated revelations that the agreement also allowed partners to bypass domestic legal restrictions on espionage, targeting citizens of member states by their own spy services.

Documents leaked by former National Security Agency contractor Edward Snowden showed that Five Eyes members had been spying on each others’ citizens, and then passing on the information to their partners. “Intelligence cooperation between India and the US has grown dramatically since 26/11”, a government official told The Sunday Express, “but a pact would give some structure to the system. It would give clarity on exactly what would and would not be shared.”
The US has provided a growing volume of information on planned attacks by Pakistan-based groups — helping India preempt at least two attacks on diplomatic facilities in Afghanistan, the last one its consulate in Herat.

However, it does not currently share the raw data or sources from which the warnings are generated — in some cases, making interpretation of information problematic.

There are, sources said, several formidable challenges to be overcome before India can begin purchasing cutting-edge digital intelligence technologies from the US. For example, fearful that equipment can be used to eavesdrop on sensitive information, India insists on domestic security certification for purchases. However, no Indian firm currently certifies EAL7-plus, the most stringent standard for digital security.

Fears also exist that an intelligence-sharing agreement might allow penetration of its own secrets. The Atal Bihari Vajpayee government, which saw the first warming in ties with the US, was deeply embarassed by the disclosure that the CIA had recruited Research and Analysis Wing officer Rabinder Singh. “There will be huge benefits from such a relationship,” said former RAW official Anand Arni, “but also very substantial risks. The devil in such deals is always in the detail, so the fine print will have to be studied very carefully.”

Sachin
Webmaster BR
Posts: 8022
Joined: 01 Jan 1970 05:30
Location: Undisclosed

Re: Intelligence and National Security Discussion

Postby Sachin » 25 Jan 2015 11:45

If this report is true, then looks like the intelligence agencies have improved their skills and working in unison. I really liked the way the Jehadi (with a Paki wife) was caught after he completed all immigration facilities at Mangalore Air port. He thought he has just escaped when the bobbies came in singing -Ajee rooth kar ab kahan jaayiyega.., jagaan jaayiyega, hamein paayiyega :P
Bengaluru’s Terror Horror
The success of Intelligence apparatus is measured by the ability of the security forces to prevent or thwart a terror act. Going by this principle, it is to the credit of the IB, the Karnataka’s Internal Security Division (ISD) and the Bengaluru City Police, who, in a meticulous operation, arrested four jihadi activists belonging to the banned Indian Mujahideen and thwarted what could have been a “blood bath” on the Republic Day, not only in Bengaluru but also in Hyderabad, Bhopal and possibly Delhi.

kmkraoind
BRF Oldie
Posts: 3908
Joined: 27 Jun 2008 00:24

Re: Intelligence and National Security Discussion

Postby kmkraoind » 25 Jan 2015 23:13

Deft Defence Minister on a Mission to Ensure India is Respected and Feared in the World Prabhu Chawla in New Indian Express

Last week, he stirred a hornet’s nest with the explosive revelation that some former Indian PMs compromised our deep intelligence assets in Pakistan. No other defence minister has ever charged any chief executive of the country of treason. But it was not just an off-the-cuff remark. It was a calculated strategy on Parrikar’s part to silence those who are out to sabotage and oppose India’s new aggressive stance against its inimical neighbour. For the past 10 years, the Indian defence establishment has been forced to face the enemy with both hands tied behind its back and mouth bridled. Now, through his frank statements and quick decision-making, Parrikar has changed the entire narrative and grammar of India’s defence and strategic policy. He hardly bothers about the nuances and spins offered to him by agents of Western think tanks.
.......
Last month, the defence ministry read the riot act to US Secretary of State John Kerry that India wouldn’t be able to do business with the US unless it forces Pakistan to dismantle terror camps and ban terrorist outfits operating on its soil.
It is not a coincidence that the Sharif government banned a few of them and Obama spoke against terror camps prior to landing in India. Such high testosterone actions were never expected from the US in the past, because of India’s wavering stand on Pakistan. The Americans were particularly taken aback by the threatening tenor of Parrikar’s repeated warnings to Pakistan. When incursions rose exponentially, he sent a clear message to the Indian armed forces. “Our (NDA government) response is: don’t hesitate. React appropriately without holding yourself back.” He mandated that they should retaliate “with double the force” against all ceasefire violations.
.......
As Goa’s CM, Parrikar dealt with various stake holders directly on all issues. He wouldn’t mind walking down to the hotels and offices of those whom he thought would be useful for his state’s development. He has carried this culture to the defence ministry. Soon after Modi approved the hike in FDI in defence, Parrikar invited a number of Indian corporates to Goa on December 27.


Unable to find right one word to describe "Parrikar" and even hapless to tell what is going on in my heart.

vishvak
BR Mainsite Crew
Posts: 5836
Joined: 12 Aug 2011 21:19

Re: Intelligence and National Security Discussion

Postby vishvak » 25 Jan 2015 23:27

From above:
He hardly bothers about the nuances and spins offered to him by agents of Western think tanks.

Individuals to watch out especially in defense sector + intelligence and security.

jamwal
BR Mainsite Crew
Posts: 5152
Joined: 19 Feb 2008 21:28
Location: Somewhere Else
Contact:

Re: Intelligence and National Security Discussion

Postby jamwal » 26 Jan 2015 13:48

http://www.cfr.org/india/raw-indias-ext ... ncy/p17707
Old article -

RAW: India's External Intelligence Agency
Author: Jayshree Bajoria
November 7, 2008
The Structure and Function of RAW
Not much is known regarding the structure of RAW, say experts. The organization started with 250 people and about $400,000. It has since expanded to several thousand personnel, but its staffing and budget remain secret. However, an estimate by the U.S.-based Federation of American Scientists suggests that in 2000, RAW had about eight to ten thousand agents and a budget that experts place at $145 million. Unlike the United States' Central Intelligence Agency (CIA) or Britain's MI6, RAW reports directly to the prime minister instead of the Ministry of Defense. The chief of RAW is designated secretary (research) in the Cabinet Secretariat, which is part of the prime minister's office. Some officers of RAW are members of a specialized service, the Research and Analysis Service, but several officers also serve on deputation from other services such as the Indian Police Service.

RAW had two priorities after its formation, writes B. Raman, a former RAW official, in the 2007 book, The Kaoboys of R&AW: Down Memory Lane. The organization worked to strengthen its capability for intelligence gathering on Pakistan and China and for covert action in East Pakistan (now Bangladesh). Some experts say that RAW's efforts in East Pakistan, which was created from the partition of the Indian state of Bengal and completely separated from the rest of Pakistan, was aimed at fomenting independence sentiment. Over time, RAW's objectives have broadened to include:

Monitoring the political and military developments in adjoining countries, which have direct bearing on India's national security and in the formulation of its foreign policy.
Seeking the control and limitation of the supply of military hardware to Pakistan, mostly from European countries, the United States, and China.
Experts disagree on the amount of influence RAW asserts on India's foreign policy. Sumit Ganguly, a professor of political science at Indiana University, says the agency has no influence on foreign policy. However, Dipankar Banerjee, a retired army official and founding director of the Institute of Peace and Conflict Studies, a New Delhi-based think tank, says the head of RAW has direct access to the head of state, to whom he provides input and analysis.

From the early days, RAW had a secret liaison relationship with the Mossad, Israel's external intelligence agency. The main purpose was to benefit from Israel's knowledge of West Asia and North Africa, and to learn from its counterterrorism techniques, say experts.

wig
BRFite
Posts: 1876
Joined: 09 Feb 2009 16:58

Re: Intelligence and National Security Discussion

Postby wig » 28 Jan 2015 10:41

Source Code Similarities: Experts Unmask 'Regin' Trojan as NSA Tool- This espionage tool was used against India as per this article
Earlier this month, SPIEGEL International published an article based on the trove of documents made available by whistleblower Edward Snowden describing the increasingly complex digital weapons being developed by intelligence services in the US and elsewhere. Concurrently, several documents were published as well as the source code of a sample malware program called QWERTY found in the Snowden archive.
For most readers, that source code was little more than 11 pages of impenetrable columns of seemingly random characters. But experts with the Russian IT security company Kaspersky compared the code with malware programs they have on file. What they found were clear similarities with an elaborate cyber-weapon that has been making international headlines since November of last year.
Last fall, Kaspersky and the US security company Symantec both reported for the first time the discovery of a cyber-weapon system which they christened "Regin". According to Kaspersky, the malware had already been in circulation for 10 years and had been deployed against targets in at least 14 countries, including Germany, Belgium and Brazil but also India and Indonesia.
Symantec spoke of a "highly complex" threat. Many of the targets were in the telecommunications sector, but others included energy companies and airlines. Both Symantec and Kaspersky did not shy away from superlatives when describing the malware program, calling it a "top-tier espionage tool" and the most dangerous cyber-weapon since Stuxnet, the notorious malware program used to attack the Iranian nuclear program.
"We are certain that we are looking at the keylogger-module from Regin," Costin Raiu, head of research for Kaspersky, said of the code published by SPIEGEL. A keylogger is a program that can record keys struck on a keyboard -- thus logging sensitive information such as passwords, email addresses and text documents -- and then send that information back to the malware programmer.
"Pursuant to our technical analysis, QWERTY is identical with the Regin plug-in 50251," Raiu says. In addition, the analysis revealed that Regin is apparently an attack platform that can be used by several different institutions in several different countries. Kaspersky published its findings in a blog post on Tuesday.
The new analysis provides clear proof that Regin is in fact the cyber-attack platform belonging to the Five Eyes alliance, which includes the US, Britain, Canada, Australia and New Zealand. Neither Kaspersky nor Symantec commented directly on the likely creator of Regin. But there can be little room left for doubt regarding the malware's origin.
◾Regin was also apparently involved in the attack on the Belgian telecommunications firm Belgacom. And Belgacom, as SPIEGEL reported in the summer of 2013, was a target of the British intelligence agency GCHQ. Ronald Prins, head of the Dutch security company Fox IT, which analyzed the attack on Belgacom, told SPIEGEL ONLINE in the summer of 2011 that Regin appeared to be a tool belonging to the NSA and GCHQ.
There are also additional clues pointing to Regin being a Five Eyes tool:
In the QWERTY code, there are numerous references to cricket, a sport that enjoys extreme popularity in the Commonwealth.
◾There are many similarities with the cyber-weapons system that the intelligence agencies call "Warriorpride" in the Snowden documents.
The targets thus far known are consistent with Five Eyes surveillance targets as outlined in the Snowden documents.
◾A serious cyber-attack on the European Commission in 2011. The deputy head of Germany's Federal Office for Information Security, Andreas Könen, told SPIEGEL at the end of last December that, "we have reconstructed that; there are clear congruencies."
◾The Austrian newspaper Der Standard, citing anonymous sources, reported last November that malware code from the Regin family had been found in the network of the International Atomic Energy Agency, based in Vienna.
◾Germany's Bild newspaper also reported a Regin infection in the computer of a member of the department for European affairs in Angela Merkel's Chancellery. According to the paper, the malware was found on the woman's private computer. The Federal Office for Information Security says that Regin has not yet been found on official German government computers.
It seems likely that more Regin discoveries will be made. Kaspersky alone, says Raiu, has found the malware in computers belonging to 27 international companies, governments and private persons.

http://www.spiegel.de/international/wor ... 15255.html

sudhan
BRFite
Posts: 1103
Joined: 01 Jul 2009 17:53
Location: Timbuktoo..

Re: Intelligence and National Security Discussion

Postby sudhan » 28 Jan 2015 15:16

ISI mole tasked to keep track of scientists

I believe one has to look at this development in context with the curious case of Indian Nuke scientists getting killed on a regular basis..

Looks like there is a large cloak and dagger game afoot with moles close to the elite labs keeping tabs on the scientists and a hit team later taking them out. I hope our counter espionage boys are close to nailing these rats.. Need to watch out for more developments reg this story..

ramana
Forum Moderator
Posts: 54704
Joined: 01 Jan 1970 05:30

Re: Intelligence and National Security Discussion

Postby ramana » 29 Jan 2015 00:13

sudhan wrote:ISI mole tasked to keep track of scientists

I believe one has to look at this development in context with the curious case of Indian Nuke scientists getting killed on a regular basis..

Looks like there is a large cloak and dagger game afoot with moles close to the elite labs keeping tabs on the scientists and a hit team later taking them out. I hope our counter espionage boys are close to nailing these rats.. Need to watch out for more developments reg this story..



Roger that....

RoyG
BRF Oldie
Posts: 5180
Joined: 10 Aug 2009 05:10

Re: Intelligence and National Security Discussion

Postby RoyG » 29 Jan 2015 02:27

ramana wrote:
sudhan wrote:ISI mole tasked to keep track of scientists

I believe one has to look at this development in context with the curious case of Indian Nuke scientists getting killed on a regular basis..

Looks like there is a large cloak and dagger game afoot with moles close to the elite labs keeping tabs on the scientists and a hit team later taking them out. I hope our counter espionage boys are close to nailing these rats.. Need to watch out for more developments reg this story..



Roger that....


I don't think the scientists being killed were working on sensitive projects. Could be wrong tho. One possibility is they were flipped and they decided not to play along anymore and were subsequently bumped off. They may have been serving as trojan horses to gain access into the the departments.

These types of incidents show that the ISI is still capable in the technical espionage arena. We have to safeguard our technology and scientists. DRDO and the IB really screwed up in this matter. Hard to believe he was let in so easily.

Vipul
BRF Oldie
Posts: 3727
Joined: 15 Jan 2005 03:30

Re: Intelligence and National Security Discussion

Postby Vipul » 29 Jan 2015 03:43

If we have pacifist and rank low self-esteemed individuals like Gujral or Morarji Desai as PM then the harm they can do to RAW by taking foolish, impractical and agenda following reasons (Mickey Mouse Singh) is immense. It would be better if RAW and IB were under the Ministry of Defense.

sum
BRF Oldie
Posts: 10086
Joined: 08 May 2007 17:04
Location: (IT-vity && DRDO) nagar

Re: Intelligence and National Security Discussion

Postby sum » 29 Jan 2015 04:23

^^ I have one pooch:

How is that we never hear of any local low level TSP-ians ever being caught working for India similar to how we hear a ISI agent being nabbed every week somewhere in India? ( Of course, every TSP-ian from the TTP to Im the Dim is a RAW agent as per their media but disregarding that)

Is our agency so super duper that not even one local asset ever gets caught or are we very thin on HUMINT and relying mainly on TECHINT?

ramana
Forum Moderator
Posts: 54704
Joined: 01 Jan 1970 05:30

Re: Intelligence and National Security Discussion

Postby ramana » 29 Jan 2015 05:07

Latter.

RoyG
BRF Oldie
Posts: 5180
Joined: 10 Aug 2009 05:10

Re: Intelligence and National Security Discussion

Postby RoyG » 29 Jan 2015 05:28

sum wrote:^^ I have one pooch:

How is that we never hear of any local low level TSP-ians ever being caught working for India similar to how we hear a ISI agent being nabbed every week somewhere in India? ( Of course, every TSP-ian from the TTP to Im the Dim is a RAW agent as per their media but disregarding that)

Is our agency so super duper that not even one local asset ever gets caught or are we very thin on HUMINT and relying mainly on TECHINT?


To be fair, the IB is quite capable in the HUMINT arena. However, the bulk of domestic terror related intelligence comes from the state and local police. Their informant networks are top class. What needs to happen is deep reforms, reorganizations, and intelligence sharing. I had talked to someone in the know 2 years ago related to this. What he told me was:

There were plans which were drafted before his retirement to combine the R&AW, IB, and CBI. This new agency would fall under the home ministry. NIA was to be disbanded.

State police intelligence would be given top quality training and their skills heavily upgraded. A new system would come up to allow the intelligence to be accessed (fusion center).

MI would be rebranded and would fall under MoD as well as well as the NTRO.

Not sure what is happening now but I'm sure something is being done.

sum
BRF Oldie
Posts: 10086
Joined: 08 May 2007 17:04
Location: (IT-vity && DRDO) nagar

Re: Intelligence and National Security Discussion

Postby sum » 29 Jan 2015 06:27

^^ So basically RAW/TSD/DGMI is not upto scratch in creating assets in TSP and we are almost asset nude there!

Even most of the recent actions always seemed to indicate NTRO technical intercepts as the source rather than human methods, IIRC.

ramana
Forum Moderator
Posts: 54704
Joined: 01 Jan 1970 05:30

Re: Intelligence and National Security Discussion

Postby ramana » 29 Jan 2015 06:43

Sum, There are secrets and mysteries.

Secrets have one answer which is hidden and can be found out for one knows they exist.
Mysteries on other hand have multiple answers which have probabilities attached.

So what you ask is of latter category.

Only the shadow knows!!!

jai
BRFite
Posts: 366
Joined: 08 Oct 2009 19:14

Re: Intelligence and National Security Discussion

Postby jai » 29 Jan 2015 15:19

Karan M wrote:
Akshay Kapoor wrote:Which is why I have said before that Bikram Singh was a disaster. This article should find its way to Parikkar and Modi. Lets see if they do anything. Or if nothing changes and it remains business as usual.


Agreed. Amongst the worst political appointees in the top spot. And worae, IAs own internal culture which looks the other way when witch hunts occur.


The panwalas say The current and previous generals are trying to settle their issues with their arch rival by targeting TSD as they caught a lot of corruption including a gen T who was using one of the famed listening devices to listen to calls of the Khalifa cLan in UP at the behest of his political masters, the eqpt later vanished - he was also captured with some journos entering TSD after his retirement as mentioned in the article. No inquiry or action has been taken yet against this gen T for entering a top secret unit without approval- that too after retirement and asking to see their documentation.

The current boss is the one running the current harassment through his loyalists and family members also in uniform. The story is that the this is retribution of the arms lobby against the good gen for breaking the " system" of " munhdekhai" / gifts and for trying to dismantle the succession chain which was set up to allow people connected to the then biggest khalifas to prosper, as well as the babu's - who wanted to settle scores for loosing out monies due to the good gen' s obstinacy about his honesty - refused to take money, black listed bribe givers and stopped some big deals which hurts some babu's Commissions.

The officers and their families are being harassed to no end - they were following orders and doing their jobs. They swore to the constitution and not to corrupt gens - that is their fault.

They can't get the good gen, so are harassing and trying
to induce lower level officers With monies and promotion promises. They went to the extent of threatening a court martial to one of the officers wife - a technical impossibility.

The saddest part is the message it is sending to
the rest of army officers. Special forces are voluntary - who will volunteer for these now knowing that they will be harassed for doing their jobs.

This is part of the larger conspiracy to degrade indian counter terrorist capability under which we have seen each Intel outfit being targeted . The sad part is that the very men who are supposed to protect our SF capability are openly disclosing the identity and details of top secret ops. This is nothing short of treason and it's being commited by our so called protectors. These brave officers and men are now targets of IS I and face a threat to their lives.

Who needs enemies when we have our generals. This is an open secret in the army and govt and everyone important knows about it yet have done nothing so far - they say because they have to make their moolah too. God alone can save our country - the rot is so deep. Every officer I spoke to is anguished at this dirty politics being carried out at the expense of national security. The young officers do not want to volunteer for special ops any more, and our only successful anti terror capability is now gone.

While I am sad that the article has published so much which should have remained a top secret - I am also happy it's exposed the real traitors indirectly. Where is the good media when you need them - would like them to make this national news and expose the rot - Arnab,Vishnu, Karan Thapar, Raj deep, guys expose this rot and do your bit for the nations security.

Jarita
BRF Oldie
Posts: 2434
Joined: 30 Oct 2009 22:27
Location: Andromeda

Re: Intelligence and National Security Discussion

Postby Jarita » 29 Jan 2015 22:42

jamwal wrote:Post made by some random user on another website. Take it for what it's worth:
http://www.reddit.com/r/india/comments/ ... _parrikar/

My dad is active in the RSS circle and so is my grand dad and everyone in the family.

Parrikar was in Mumbai.. precisely at Borivali for some meeting / interactions yesterday. My dad alongwith other RSS walas and Sangh chalaks went down to meet him and had a hour long talk with him.

Infact, my dad spoke to him for a good 15 mins. We are from a border district of Rajasthan with approx. 200 km common boundary with Mr.Pakistan. They talked about reduction in infiltation and smugling because of fencing done at the border, 1971 war, a proposed railway line from Gujrat to Rajasthan along the border among other things.

Details of the talk -

Fencing: Infiltration and Smugling has stopped drastically after the fencing project was taken up by the Defence Ministry.

1971: My grand dad and Major Kuldeep Singh Chandpuri (Sunny Deol in Border... remember) were good friends when he was posted at the Longewala post. After the Longewala victory when Chandpuri came to the town, my grand dad hugged him and congratulated him. The first words he said were 'Jawaan border pe apna lal khoon bahate hain, aur aap neeli shyahi se dastakhat kar sab mita aate hain.' He was referring the agreement signed by the Indira government with Pakistan giving back all land captured by India in retaliating action, after the war.

'Aap' here did not mean my grand dad.. but a general term used for politicians which again my grand dad was not but since he was the Sanghchalak for one of the biggest districts in the country, was being referred to as such.

Rail line: India has a continuous rail line running along its border areas in Gujrat, Punjab, southern and northern Rajasthan, Himachal, southern J&K, Harayana, alongside Nepal and Bhutan. The connectivity is absent at Western Rajasthan apart from war torn Kashmir and Northeast. This connectivity in Rajasthan is the need for the hour in order to ensure rapid movement of troops and supplies along the border. Mr. Parrikar agreed to this and talks with railways are in progress to complete the route survey which was initiated in the previous rail budgets.

Dad also noticed the simplicity of Parrikar. Black sandals, open out shirt, no taam jhaam around him like erstwhile Neta log.

All in all, he was very happy and optimistic for the defence sector which is currently in shambles coz of Antony and Ms. Gandhi.


Can anyone explain why the previous govt left defence in shambles? Not CT's by actual facts

Jarita
BRF Oldie
Posts: 2434
Joined: 30 Oct 2009 22:27
Location: Andromeda

Re: Intelligence and National Security Discussion

Postby Jarita » 29 Jan 2015 22:45

sum wrote:^^ So basically RAW/TSD/DGMI is not upto scratch in creating assets in TSP and we are almost asset nude there!

Even most of the recent actions always seemed to indicate NTRO technical intercepts as the source rather than human methods, IIRC.



An ex US intelligence guy told me that best in Humint were Russia, China and Pakistan. Especially of the honey trapping variety. I found Pakistan's mention really strange since it is a devout Islamic country but it seems that Pakistan is very good with honey trapping with both male and female operatives.

One more point of consideration. ISI was trained by the British and then the US agencies for the longest time. Indian intelligence only got a boost under IG

shyamd
BRF Oldie
Posts: 6879
Joined: 08 Aug 2006 18:43

Re: Intelligence and National Security Discussion

Postby shyamd » 30 Jan 2015 01:12

sum wrote:^^ So basically RAW/TSD/DGMI is not upto scratch in creating assets in TSP and we are almost asset nude there!

Even most of the recent actions always seemed to indicate NTRO technical intercepts as the source rather than human methods, IIRC.

Each organisation operates differently and has different capabilities and focus etc.

If something needs to be done, they'll get it done - this applies to all of the Intel organisations.

How do you know that it was Techint in the recent terror incident? Just because the media sources announce it was techint, doesn't make it TECHINT. It could be disinfo to send people the wrong way.

Think about it.

sum
BRF Oldie
Posts: 10086
Joined: 08 May 2007 17:04
Location: (IT-vity && DRDO) nagar

Re: Intelligence and National Security Discussion

Postby sum » 30 Jan 2015 04:25

^^ Shyamd-sir,

I hope what you are saying is true.

I only got this doubt after the news of the arrest of the Balasore based cameraman which was the 5-6th ISI related arrest in just 2-3 months. This shows that ISI was active all over in cultivating assets and some do get caught ( as is expected).
If even Desh was doing the same elsewhere, there never seems to be any news of even a minor asset ever being caught anywhere in TSP/China etc which got me thinking on this line. Thats all to it.

RoyG
BRF Oldie
Posts: 5180
Joined: 10 Aug 2009 05:10

Re: Intelligence and National Security Discussion

Postby RoyG » 30 Jan 2015 04:35

sum wrote:^^ Shyamd-sir,

I hope what you are saying is true.

I only got this doubt after the news of the arrest of the Balasore based cameraman which was the 5-6th ISI related arrest in just 2-3 months. This shows that ISI was active all over in cultivating assets and some do get caught ( as is expected).
If even Desh was doing the same elsewhere, there never seems to be any news of even a minor asset ever being caught anywhere in TSP/China etc which got me thinking on this line. Thats all to it.


They're very good. No doubt about it. They've studied the arthashastra and stasi setup. Changes are probably happening now to our setup. We can be just as versatile as them. M Dhar's book about his stint in the IB is excellent.

shyamd
BRF Oldie
Posts: 6879
Joined: 08 Aug 2006 18:43

Re: Intelligence and National Security Discussion

Postby shyamd » 30 Jan 2015 05:34

sum wrote:^^ Shyamd-sir,

I hope what you are saying is true.

I only got this doubt after the news of the arrest of the Balasore based cameraman which was the 5-6th ISI related arrest in just 2-3 months. This shows that ISI was active all over in cultivating assets and some do get caught ( as is expected).
If even Desh was doing the same elsewhere, there never seems to be any news of even a minor asset ever being caught anywhere in TSP/China etc which got me thinking on this line. Thats all to it.


There are LOADS of ISI spies in India. Men and women. Many won't even act unless we are in a war situation.

Pak is supposedly catching spies if you believe their press. They handed over evidence of alleged indian activities inside Pak to some US delegation This week.

The situation is not as dire as you make out.. What you should watch for is the switch from pure defence to offensive defence. Again - currently Nat sec team is firefighting. There's too much to do!

For each target nation there are diff strategies that is used.

Our press is open so we admit what we do and that we caught someone. In Pak or PRC - you are Probably killed. There is no need for public spectacle in their societies. Keep that in mind.

JE Menon
Forum Moderator
Posts: 7047
Joined: 01 Jan 1970 05:30

Re: Intelligence and National Security Discussion

Postby JE Menon » 30 Jan 2015 13:12

>>An ex US intelligence guy told me that best in Humint were Russia, China and Pakistan.

And what is the measure of "best"? The number of agents being exposed?


Sachin
Webmaster BR
Posts: 8022
Joined: 01 Jan 1970 05:30
Location: Undisclosed

Re: Intelligence and National Security Discussion

Postby Sachin » 16 Feb 2015 13:44

x-posted from International Intelligence..
Philip wrote:In change of heart, BJP government develops liking for National Counter Terrorism Centre
By Aman Sharma, ET Bureau | 14 Feb, 2015

Read more at:
http://economictimes.indiatimes.com/art ... aign=cppst

I don't think we can believe the media entirely. The earlier NCTC had rights for pan-India work, without even informing the local state governments. This is what prompted many a state government to worry that NCTC would be used for local political snooping. Is that provision still retained in the new plan? From what I could make out NCTC in its new avatar is mainly for intelligence sharing in a methodical manner (and not another organisation having pan-Indian snooping powers).

ravip
BRFite
Posts: 270
Joined: 11 Aug 2016 06:14

Re: Intelligence and National Security Discussion

Postby ravip » 16 Feb 2015 14:11

Twitter world is abuzz about cobrapost doing a sting on Indian intelligence agencies, the press conference is to be held tomorrow at 11:56am in Press Club of india. If rumors are to be believed, the sting is about US special forces(delta) being stationed at chatarpur farms,Delhi.

member_22733
BRF Oldie
Posts: 3788
Joined: 11 Aug 2016 06:14

Re: Intelligence and National Security Discussion

Postby member_22733 » 16 Feb 2015 14:28

Cobrapost may have signed its own death warrant with that. Nobody effs with the intelligence community, if you do you can start counting the days you have left coz they will be very few.

Sumair
BRFite
Posts: 117
Joined: 02 Jun 2001 11:31

Re: Intelligence and National Security Discussion

Postby Sumair » 16 Feb 2015 18:13

Oh the "Chattarpur Farms"; if only the walls could talk!

ramana
Forum Moderator
Posts: 54704
Joined: 01 Jan 1970 05:30

Re: Intelligence and National Security Discussion

Postby ramana » 16 Feb 2015 20:31

That's old hat. Some US commander said that in 2012.

Its all related to potential instability in TSP.

Nikhil T
BRFite
Posts: 1286
Joined: 09 Nov 2008 06:48
Location: RAW HQ, Lodhi Road

Re: Intelligence and National Security Discussion

Postby Nikhil T » 16 Feb 2015 20:41

ravip wrote:Twitter world is abuzz about cobrapost doing a sting on Indian intelligence agencies, the press conference is to be held tomorrow at 11:56am in Press Club of india. If rumors are to be believed, the sting is about US special forces(delta) being stationed at chatarpur farms,Delhi.


Cobrapost has tweeted "#Cobrapost exposes politicians, bureaucrats, Intelligence agencies and many more tomorrow at 11.45 am at a press conference".
They're calling it Operation 'R'. I guess Mr Doval will be dialing the phone all night today.

RoyG
BRF Oldie
Posts: 5180
Joined: 10 Aug 2009 05:10

Re: Intelligence and National Security Discussion

Postby RoyG » 16 Feb 2015 21:58

This is happening right before the budget session. Sounds fishy.

ravip
BRFite
Posts: 270
Joined: 11 Aug 2016 06:14

Re: Intelligence and National Security Discussion

Postby ravip » 16 Feb 2015 22:11

ramana wrote:That's old hat. Some US commander said that in 2012.

Its all related to potential instability in TSP.



Some say they have been kept their to rescue the diplomats in case of attack on embassy. These goras don't trust our Delhi police and Diplomat security detail. These trigger happy goras should be thrown out and should be asked to live with our security cover or else pack their bags.

Raveen
BRFite
Posts: 805
Joined: 18 Jun 2008 00:51
Location: 1/2 way between the gutter and the stars
Contact:

Re: Intelligence and National Security Discussion

Postby Raveen » 16 Feb 2015 23:15

ravip wrote:
ramana wrote:That's old hat. Some US commander said that in 2012.

Its all related to potential instability in TSP.



Some say they have been kept their to rescue the diplomats in case of attack on embassy. These goras don't trust our Delhi police and Diplomat security detail. These trigger happy goras should be thrown out and should be asked to live with our security cover or else pack their bags.


What nonsense - if they want their own security so be it, how does it bother you?

putnanja
BRF Oldie
Posts: 4488
Joined: 26 Mar 2002 12:31
Location: searching for the next al-qaida #3

Re: Intelligence and National Security Discussion

Postby putnanja » 17 Feb 2015 00:48

Raveen wrote:
ravip wrote:...

Some say they have been kept their to rescue the diplomats in case of attack on embassy. These goras don't trust our Delhi police and Diplomat security detail. These trigger happy goras should be thrown out and should be asked to live with our security cover or else pack their bags.


What nonsense - if they want their own security so be it, how does it bother you?


No country allows armed soldiers from a different country to provide security on their soil. Its only for heads of state etc.

VinodTK
BRF Oldie
Posts: 2381
Joined: 18 Jun 2000 11:31

Re: Intelligence and National Security Discussion

Postby VinodTK » 17 Feb 2015 05:27

Ya'alon Calls India a 'True Friend' as He Takes Off for Visit
Defense Minister Moshe Ya'alon takes off Monday night for a visit to India - the first time Israel's top defense official has made the trek.

Defense Minister Moshe Ya'alon (Likud) will take off Monday night for New Delhi as part of an official visit to India.

His visit will mark the first time an Israeli defense minister has traveled to the Asian nation.

During his visit, Ya'alon will attend the inauguration of a defense industries of Israel pavilion during an arms fair held in the city of Bangalore, the capital of southern Indian state Karnataka.

He is also expected to meet with senior government officials including India's Defense Minister, Manohar Parrikar. In addition, Ya'alon will meet with Czech Defense Minister, Martin Stropnicky, on the visit.

Before flying, Ya'alon noted the importance of the visit and his excitement at participating in the arms fair.

"This visit is very significant because it is the first time a defense minister from Israel is traveling to India, and it has great importance for the further strengthening of relations with a rising power like India."

"The Indian government is a true friend of Israel," Ya'alon continued, "and shared interests will benefit both countries. For instance, our and their defense establishments enjoy excellent relations."

India, with close to a billion people, is currently Israel's biggest defense customer, and Israel's military delegation to India is second only in size to its delegation to America.

The two countries also have a Joint Working group on counter-terrorism, with bilateral ties flourishing under India's new Prime Minister Narendra Modi.

"At the arms exhibition, we will once more enjoy seeing the strength of the Defense industries of Israel, their unique quality and that of their employees, as well as the fact that the world sees them as the elite of the elite."


Return to “Strategic & Security Issues Archive”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 2 guests