Stupid/disastrous decisions by Indian leaders-archive

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shiv
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Stupid/disastrous decisions by Indian leaders-archive

Post by shiv »

I would like to set up and start this thread so that we do not forget. After reading a news item about Morarji Desai -I recalled many errors made by leaders. Unless we remember that errors were made we will only gloss over them and imagine that al vaz alvays vel. Sometimes only history reveals that a decision was an error. We should archive stupid and anti-national acts by leaders.

We have a tendency to "say only good things". Even if a leader was good it is our duty to recall his errors. I cringe when I find Indians praising or quoting Churchill that racist ba$tard.

A few errors come to mind off the top of my head - like the IK Gujral winding up Indian activities in shitland, Nehru's referral of J&K to UN, Maunmohan Singh and his Baluchistan faux pas. But this one got my blood boiling - so I thought I will start the thread with this

http://www.bharat-rakshak.com/NEWS/news ... wsid=21724
Finance Minister Morarji Desai’s antipathy to Krishna Menon was garnished by his belief that India, the land of ahimsa, should not spend big on military paraphernalia. He even considered spying as immoral. By cutting down on budgets, he reduced India’s intelligence agency, RAW, to a skeleton. In line with his moral posture, he told Pakistan’s Zia-ul-Haq about Pakistani agents working for RAW. The under-cover agents were shot. Morarji became the only Indian national to receive Pakistan’s highest civilian honour, the Nishan-e-Pakistan
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Re: Stupid/disastrous decisions by Indian leaders-archive

Post by svenkat »

May be OT.

Some people have congenital hatred of Nehru-Gandhi family.Indira Gandhi was indeed Durga compared to Morarji Desai.There have been so many dumb idiots in non Congress parties.
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Re: Stupid/disastrous decisions by Indian leaders-archive

Post by Shreeman »

My list goes thus:

1. 1947-48
The resulting First Kashmir War lasted until 1948, when India sought resolution of the issue at the UN Security Council. Sheikh Abdullah was not in favour of India seeking UN intervention because he was sure the Indian Army could free the entire state from invaders.
2. 1950 -- Article 370:
aw Minister B. R. Ambedkar was asked to prepare a draft of the legislation in 1949. He refused, and it was later written by Ayyangar.[1] Ambedkar was against Article 370 and it was included against his wishes. Balraj Madhok reportedly said, Dr. Ambedkar had clearly told Sheikh Abdullah, "You wish India should protect your borders, she should build roads in your area, she should supply you food grains, and Kashmir should get equal status as India. But Government of India should have only limited powers and Indian people should have no rights in Kashmir. To give consent to this proposal, would be a treacherous thing against the interests of India and I, as the Law Minister of India, will never do it." Then Abdullah went to Nehru, who directed him to N. Gopalaswami Ayyangar, who approached Sardar Patel asking him to do something as it was a matter of prestige for Nehru, who had promised Abdullah accordingly. Patel got it passed when Nehru was on a foreign tour. On the day this article came up for discussion, Dr. Ambedkar did not reply to questions on it though he did participate on other articles. All arguments were done by Gopalaswami Ayyangar.
2. 1959 -- not limited to just not protecting Tibet
After the defeat of the Tibetan Army in Chamdo, Rapga started mediating in negotiations between the People's Liberation Army and the Tibetans.

Rapga and Topgay engaged in negotiations with the Chinese during their assault on Chamdo. Khampas either defected to the Chinese PLA forces or did not fight at all. The PLA succeeded in the invasion.
3. 1962 -- Rank stupidity during the war
At the beginning of 1961, Nehru appointed General B. M. Kaul as army Chief of General Staff,[33] but he refused to increase military spending and prepare for a possible war.
4. 1965:
Indian and Pakistani forces would pull back to their pre-conflict positions, pre-August lines, no later than February 25, 1966.
Or the declaration at all.

5. 1971 war:
The accord also gave back more than 13,000 km² of land that Indian troops had seized in West Pakistan during the war, ...... the treaty had been too lenient to Bhutto, who had pleaded for leniency, arguing that the fragile democracy in Pakistan would crumble if the accord was perceived as being overly harsh by Pakistanis and that he would be accused of losing Kashmir in addition to the loss of East Pakistan.
6. 1975-1977:
In September 1976, Sanjay Gandhi initiated a widespread compulsory sterilization program to limit population growth.
7. 1980-81
When the Nirankari Baba was himself shot to death on 24 April 1980, Bhindranwale openly celebrated the development, which put him under suspicion. The FIR named nearly twenty people involved in the murder, most of whom had ties to Bhindranwale. A member of the Akhand Kirtani Jatha, Ranjit Singh, surrendered and admitted to the assassination three years later, and was sentenced to serve thirteen years at the Tihar Jail in Delhi.
8. 1984
Sajjan Kumar is one of the most notable persons accused in connection with the 1984 anti-Sikh riots. Eyewitnesses have testified how Sajjan Kumar incited mobs to kill Sikhs in the aftermath of Indira Gandhi's assassination.
9. 1989
...which would in addition consolidate the caste coalition that supported the Janata Dal in northern India, and accordingly decided to implement the recommendations of the Mandal Commission which suggested that a fixed quota of all jobs in the public sector be reserved for members of the historically disadvantaged so-called Other Backward Classes...
10. 2004 elections
Prime Minister Atal Bihari Vajpayee had recommended premature dissolution of the 13th Lok Sabha (in accordance with a provision of the Constitution) to pave the way for early elections apparently in view of the recent good showing of the BJP in the Assembly elections in four states.
I include this last item here, because it lead to 10 years of MMS. These 10 years are just past 9/11 and tremendous opportunities were lost to recover from the 1-9 errors by being an "inactive" government during this time. The losses will be felt for generations to come.
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Re: Stupid/disastrous decisions by Indian leaders-archive

Post by symontk »

Few more to be added

1. Opposition from all non-congress opposition for starting ONGC, Nuclear & Space programmes
2. Decision of PM Vajpayee not to go for war in 2001
3. 2002 Gujarat riots
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Post by Shreeman »

symontk wrote:Few more to be added

1. Opposition from all non-congress opposition for starting ONGC, Nuclear & Space programmes
2. Decision of PM Vajpayee not to go for war in 2001
3. 2002 Gujarat riots
The riots can hardly be called a politician's decision. Perhaps it would be helpful if you added links to the specific decisions/leader.
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Re: Stupid/disastrous decisions by Indian leaders-archive

Post by hnair »

symontk, other than #2, the rest are not decisions by a "politico in power", which seem to be what Shiv is trying to list. Did #1 point cause any flawed policy decisions by a politico in power? Was #2 started, based on decision by a politician?

Everyone, please do not add on to the admin load, if you trigger off a flame-fest by listing cliche one-liners, pet peeves etc. If you dont have a small writeup of your own analysis (with reference links other than O-faced blogs), dont bother - we have a jillion bad decisions since '47 and varying original analysis will help figure out various angles.

A month-long diet of "buns" await the flamers.
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Re: Stupid/disastrous decisions by Indian leaders-archive

Post by hnair »

matrimc, deleted the post this time. symontk already got cautioned
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Re: Stupid/disastrous decisions by Indian leaders-archive

Post by Pratyush »

Giving up of the CHT in East Pakistan. Resulting in the India North East becoming land locked. The adverse result is that the non Muslim majority was destroyed over a period of time. The loss of economic opportunities for the North Eastern states.
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Post by Shreeman »

No doubt. Yes, I will go along with this.The stupidity extends into not wanting the development of the seven sisters for fear of western-lead break up.

11. (order only in posting) Geography and transport to the north-east, 1947 and 1971
After the Partition of British India in 1947, Chittagong became the chief port of East Pakistan. During the Bangladesh Liberation War in 1971, the declaration of Bangladesh's independence was proclaimed from Chittagong.
Given Bangladesh's dependence upon it, the "principled leaders" who returned 13000 sq km could hardly have kept chittagong a la crimea. But not acquiring transport/communication rights *ever* from a government you were setting up was outright dumb. And it would have been good for both countries.
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Re: Stupid/disastrous decisions by Indian leaders-archive

Post by member_28640 »

Illegal Immigration Act in Assam:
Illegal Migrants – Determination by Tribunals (IMDT) Act of 1984 for Assam, basis for all illegal immigration, terrorism et all. One notes a serious drop i terrorism after this was struck down in 2005.
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Post by Shreeman »

^^^

One questions why there is not a reverse flow -- acquisitions of industry and infrastructure the wsy most western countries do it.
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Re: Stupid/disastrous decisions by Indian leaders-archive

Post by symontk »

Just for clarification, I am not interested in any flame wars. As per the title, I thought that thread was for all types of leaders. Politicians are only subset of leaders. Leaders can be from other groups too. That is why I posted the below. There are many decisions in Kerala which I would like to post but may be all the folks may not understand the significance & importance and so not posting as of now
symontk wrote:Few more to be added

1. Opposition from all non-congress opposition for starting ONGC, Nuclear & Space programmes

The opposition to the programs in the 60's didn't cause any delay in the programs but Janata Sarkar of 1977 wanted to scrap space program especially alleging its a luxury for an agrarian state plus it was seen as something related to Gandhi family (not sure how). But things changed when Vajpayee took over. Its good that neither INC or BJP wants to stop the program after seeing the success

I don't have any links anyway

2. Decision of PM Vajpayee not to go for war in 2001

self explanatory

3. 2002 Gujarat riots

self explanatory, but if the documentation is only for PM decision's, you can remove this
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Post by hnair »

symontk, no, nothing is self-explanatory about your two points, since no one can read your thoughts on the topic from the word "self explanatory".

Once again: want to hear YOUR thoughts, not what we already know.
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Post by Shreeman »

symontk, I dont think shiv limited the leaders to a subset. But there should be a distinction between a decision and a conspiracy theory and/or even an attempted decision. What didnt materialize cant be counted.

So, ONGC, etc exist. There should be supporting evidence to the 2001 decision, and the third item is out of place. If religion discussion was not proscribed, I would argue for a list of harmonious inter-religion rivalries. But thats not happenning any time soon.

My own contribution continues with:
12.Language based states
By the 1952, the demand for creation of a Telugu-majority state in the parts of the Madras State had become powerful. Potti Sreeramulu, one of the activists demanding the formation of a Telugu-majority state, died on 16 December 1952 after undertaking a fast-unto-death. Subsequently, the Telugu-majority Andhra State was formed in 1953. This sparked of agitations all over the country, with linguistic groups demanding separate statehoods.
Because it destroyed any movements towards entities that would have been administered according to peoples wishes, instead of vote banks. It eliminated the indian connecting language discussion entirely. And it generated a new hatred based on language as if other divisions were not enough. Twenty some states were never the right number based on populations even in the 50s. A much larger number would have forced representative governance, and micromanagement. Instead of throwing up film stars and dynasties as they do now. Many of the states that would have resulted from orderly reorganization exist today. But still, too few.
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Post by member_22733 »

If 2002 is self explanatory then Setalvad is a saint. Common factor: SIT probe.
shiv
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Re: Stupid/disastrous decisions by Indian leaders-archive

Post by shiv »

Gujral, the man behind the raw doctrine that set India behind
Image
Long after he was finished with the business of partisan politics, Inder Kumar Gujral who served a brief 10-month stint as prime minister defended his ‘Gujral doctrine in his autobiography, ‘Matters of Discretion’. He wrote:”The logic behind the Gujral Doctrine was that since we had to face two hostile neighbours in the north and the west, we had to be at ‘total peace’ with all other immediate neighbours in order to contain Pakistan’s and China’s influence in the region.”

The doctrine formulated first in his tenure as an external affairs minister under HD Deve Gowda, and then perfected when he became prime minister is believed to be his most significant and controversial contribution to the national security policy framework in a career that spanned over five decades and embraced politics, diplomacy and public affairs.

Its significance lies in the insight that for India to become a global power in sync with its stature, it needs a peaceful neighbourhood. The element of controversy springs from the debilitating impact it had on R&AW’s ability to conduct intelligence operations in Pakistan. On his directions, the Pakistan special operations desk of R&AW was shut down, leading to a major gap in India’s intelligence capabilities. Analysts blame this as one of the key factors that led to the “intelligence failure” before the Kargil war commenced. But then Gujral was determined to leave his imprint on Indo-Pak relations and was completely unmindful of such controversies during his career.

He shot into prominence during the mid-sixties as one of the members of Indira Gandhi’s cabinet. He fell out with her on account of his differences with her then all-powerful son Sanjay during the Emergency. He was the minister of state for information and broadcasting. He was shunted to the planning ministry. He was replaced by Vidya Charan Shukla whose tough ways earned him notoriety in those days.

This tiff with Sanjay later proved to be a blessing in disguise, as the leftist Gujral, who became a card-holding member of the CPI during his student days and sported a Lenin-style goatee, got an opportunity to play a significant role in building durable ties with Communist Russia. Although it was Indira Gandhi who sent him to Moscow, Gujral stayed there during the subsequent tenures of Morarji Desai and Charan Singh as well.

Even with nearly four decades in politics, Gujral could never really win an election on his own. Indeed, he needed the support of the Akali Dal to win from Jalandhar — the adopted home town of his family. His father Avatar Narain Gujral and mother Pushpa had settled in Jalandhar after migration from Pakistan.
A pox on this mouse of a man
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Post by Shreeman »

Well worth it, as well.

13. 1996--The Gujral blindness
The United Front Government’s neighbourhood policy now stands on five basic principles: First, with the neighbours like Nepal, Bangladesh, Bhutan, Maldives and Sri Lanka, India does not ask for reciprocity but gives all that it can in good faith and trust.
Note the Lahori education.

There is a remarkable Lahori connection at the PM level -- Nanda, Gujral. And the honorary Lahori Desai. To add to it, MMS being born in Punjab. This is just off the cuff.
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Post by Shanmukh »

Shreeman wrote: Given Bangladesh's dependence upon it, the "principled leaders" who returned 13000 sq km could hardly have kept chittagong a la crimea. But not acquiring transport/communication rights *ever* from a government you were setting up was outright dumb. And it would have been good for both countries.
Chittagong was never in question even in 1947. It was Chittagong Hill Tracts which was Buddhist then & we should have acquired it in 1971, when it was still Buddhist majority. The port of Cox's Bazaar in Chittagong Hill Tracts would have served us just as well as the port of Chittagong. Also, splitting Bangladesh from Pakistan was the height of stupidity. We should have forced Pakistan to take back all the illegal immigrants from E. Pakistan, taken everything west of the Madhumati (remaining Nadia, Khulna & Jessore districts, maybe even Barisal) as a Hindu homeland for E. Bengali Hindus since the Pakistanis had shown that it was impossible for them to live alongside Hindus. This would have forced Pakistan to spend even more trying to hold their own land, while keeping the Bangladeshis in check (they deserve each other). Instead, we ended up subsidising Bangladeshi Jihad against Hindus while they infiltrated at whim into West Bengal, Assam & the remaining NE. But then, given that the Congress sarkar is a continuation of the British sarkar, one cannot expect such wisdom from them.
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Post by TKiran »

The law to increase juvenile age for crime from 16 yrs to 18 yrs could turn india into'crime against women capital of the world' in another 5 yrs.
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Post by Lisa »

Declination of a Security Council seat at the UN in favour of PRC, correct?
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Re: Stupid/disastrous decisions by Indian leaders-archive

Post by krithivas »

1) Repeal of anti-conversion law in Tamil Nadu post JJ defeat; and,
2) Lack of a nation wide anti-conversion law; and,
3) Blanket constitutional protection to minority educational institutions - Most use protection for conversion activities; and,
4) No visibility/oversight of foreign monies to Christian missionaries.
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Post by Prem »

Planting Nehru at helm after Independence is/was/remain the original sin, all the rest stems from this one bad seed which became tree in time with many branches sucking life out of Indians.
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Post by Nandu »

Lisa wrote:Declination of a Security Council seat at the UN in favour of PRC, correct?
Nehru himself has denied any such offer was made, so unless there is documentary proof, it is just a silly story.
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Post by Gus »

I would request to please limit to major single blunder by a leader that is fairly unknown to general population.

not a laundry list of everything that you wish happened or did not happen. there is whine thread for that.
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Post by Shreeman »

Gus,

The importance of the decision should win over the singular stupidity of the individual. Folks who were in power for 20 years, or 50 as a family clearly had the benefit of time to poop all over the place. Those (looking at you exPM chandrashekhar) had days and could settle little more than petty arguments.

The names attached to the decisions should carry little weight. The prize for greatest stupidity should go to the biggest blunder, the silver turd to the next biggest, and so on.

Giving each politician one vote could again hide some of the biggest mistakes.
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Re: Stupid/disastrous decisions by Indian leaders-archive

Post by disha »

Why is item# 6 : Emergency not highlighted?

Item #6a: Changing of the constitution., inserting the word "sicular & socialist" in to the preamble.

Item #6b: Changing of the way judges are nominated.
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Post by Shreeman »

disha wrote:Why is item# 6 : Emergency not highlighted?

Item #6a: Changing of the constitution., inserting the word "sicular & socialist" in to the preamble.

Item #6b: Changing of the way judges are nominated.
No argument from me. The whole signing of the emergency in the bath (figuratively) is equally laughable. I just happen to remember entire villages hiding in the woods to avoid sterilization.

Image

The best of Abu's work, as we all know, was created in this period, including the famous one of the then president Fakhruddin Ali Ahmed signing the Emergency orders from his bath tub.

Feel free to quote/link the right parts from wiki. It has them.
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Post by disha »

Item #11 to Shreeman's list:

Rollback by Rajiv Gandhi on the Shah bano case. It was to appease minorities and dealt a body blow to civil rights of minority women and children. Entire votebank based minority politics leads to that.

Item #12: Sending IPKF to Sri Lanka.

Item #12b: Sending most infantries from North (like Punjab regiment) to a foreign country riven by cultural genocide.

Item #12c: 1000+ dead in IPKF and nary a discussion about it.

Symontk, your items #1-3 do not stand.

1. For ONGC etc., we do not have the minutes of why there was opposition., at the end of the day ONGC exists. So does DAE/ISRO/DRDO etc ...

2. If Vajpayee had gone to war, and the outcome a disaster - then it would have made the list. One can discuss on the positives or negatives of Op. Parakram - however not going to war is not necessarily a stupid or disastrous decision.

3. Godhra riots? Are you serious? What about Nellie massacre? What about the Kar-sevaks killed in post-babri violence and their bodies thrown away? What about RG opening up Babri masjid for Ram Shilanyas?
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