Indian Naval News & Discussion - 12 Oct 2013

Manish_P · Post by **Manish_P** » 23 Feb 2015 15:33

@Bharath_S

Is the IN carrier landing procedure different to the USN ?

For the USN the standard carrier landing procedure is to power the engines to max power (without Afterburners) immediately on touch-down.

Only when the confirmation of snagging the arrestor wire is received do the pilots dial down the power.

And IIRC most USN ACs (if not all) have 4 arrestor wires as compared to the Vikramaditya's 3.

The US Navy pilots are trained to try to snag the 3rd one the most number of the times.

negi · Post by **negi** » 23 Feb 2015 16:23

Yes Vik has 3 arrestor cables . This is not the first time IN is operating a carrier with arrestor recovery system it is just that the approach speed and weight of Mig-29 is more than what we have handled in the past. On single engine recovery and demonstrating a touch and go I am not sure if Russians themselves have done it prior to selling the AC to India , comparing the Mig-29K specs with F-18SH one would want to believe that former is capable of demonstrating a touch and go on a single engine but it would also depend on throttle response of Mig-29K and how much fuel and stores is it bringing back.

wig · Post by **wig** » 24 Feb 2015 08:58

http://www.tribuneindia.com/news/commen ... 45792.html

the former naval chief, Admiral Sushil Kumar has published this article on the coast guard ops against the paki boat - It was a straightforward maritime operation. It dwells on certain aspects of naval operations. Informative

Seen professionally, the recent interception of an intruding Pakistani boat by the Indian Coast Guard was by all accounts a well-coordinated maritime operation. Since national security interests were at stake, a covert operation of this nature, based on actionable intelligence, had necessarily to be executed on a need-to-know basis. But unfortunately, this straightforward maritime operation by Indian security forces has been given weird interpretations and dragged into a political quagmire. As if that was not bad enough, we now have self-styled experts and loose cannons joining the fray and fanning the controversy.
It is well known that a terrorist, who is psyched up for a mission, is more than likely to commit hara-kiri if caught red-handed. And more so is this true when desperadoes are nabbed at sea with hardly an escape option. Our Navy and Coast Guard have ample experience of this modus operandi. What happened during Operation Cactus in 1988 and Operation Alondra Rainbow in 2000 are classic examples of this.
So is it any wonder why the intruding Pakistani boat went down in a fiery blaze if it was merely on an “innocent passage” with nothing to hide? Moreover, is it not presumptuous of armchair analysts perched ashore to question the tactical judgement of the commander at sea on how to approach a suspicious vessel with obviously dishonourable intentions?
Finally, while political discourse and debate are required in a democratic system, is it really fair to cast aspersions on the purpose of a covert operation when the agencies concerned are bound by a code of secrecy? Not only could this dent the morale of our security forces but also offer a lifeline to inimical forces across the border.
This is best conveyed in the oath for the Indian armed forces: “The safety and honour of our country come first — always and every time”.
Yet another case in recent times was the interception of Italian vessel Enrica Lexie, which entered the Indian maritime waters and shot and killed innocent Indian fisherman off the coast of Kerala. In a swiftly conducted joint operation the Indian Navy and the Coast Guard tracked down and intercepted the trigger-happy Italian ship on the high seas. While the action of the Indian maritime forces was in accordance with the international maritime law; subsequent events have shown how political intrigue and crafty sea lawyers can muddy the waters. The Enrica Lexie case thus remains unresolved and has acquired bitter international overtones.
So what is it about seaborne operations conducted in recent times by our security forces that tend to generate domestic and international controversies? If we disregard the political bickering that seems ingrained in our system, there can be only one reason for maritime controversies: It is the lack of understanding of the maritime dimension. And because of this it is perhaps not realized that there is a fundamental difference in the way maritime forces are required to operate in comparison to land forces.
Unlike the situation on land where our security forces operate within the confines of our landward borders, maritime forces always operate in an international arena where the oceans are deemed to be open highways. Whereas land forces are subject to the municipal laws of the nation state, the responses of maritime forces are conditioned by the international maritime law as prescribed by the UN Convention on the Law of the Sea — UNCLOS .
The task of maritime forces is therefore compounded since the oceans are not only deemed to be open highways but the UNCLOS provides for the ‘Right of Innocent Passage’ for any vessel to navigate and transit through any waterway. Accordingly, vessels of any nationality have the right to transit anywhere, including the territorial waters of a coastal state .
Intercepting a suspicious vessel amongst thousands that criss-cross the international oceans has always been a mind-boggling task at sea and is the reason why maritime operations have their own operational imperatives, quite different from land based operations.
Given the vastness of the oceanic arena, the complex task of operating within the international framework of the UNCLOS imposes an immense responsibility on the commander at the scene of action at sea. It is for this reason that he is allowed complete discretion to manoeuvre and determine the tactical situation and how he could best achieve his mission. This has always been the Standard Operating Procedure for maritime operations and was well illustrated during Operation Cactus in 1988 where the Indian armed forces intervened in the Maldives on the personal request of President Gayoom to Prime Minister Rajiv Gandhi.
Having thwarted the attempted coup at Male, the scene of action shifted to the high seas where the rebel ship “Progress Light” was racing towards Sri Lanka. The immediate task for the Indian Navy was to intercept the fleeing rebel ship. But the real problem was how to rescue the Maldivian hostages held captive on board — some of them being Cabinet ministers. The Commanding Officer of the guided missile frigate INS Godavari was designated the Indian Navy’s Task Force Commander and the mission for Captain Gopalachari was unambiguous: “Rescue the hostages; capture the rebels”.
It was a tense moment at the Indian Navy war room and Prime Minister Rajiv Gandhi was seen anxiously conferring with the Navy Chief, Admiral Nadkarni. Anything could happen. Captain Gopalachari rose to the occasion and accomplished the mission with professional brilliance. Within an hour came the signal from INS Godavari: “All hostages rescued and rebels captured” .
This is what operations at sea are all about and the lesson that comes forth from the Pakistani boat controversy is obvious: Let the security forces do their job; meddling with them can be counter-productive to the nation’s interest.

SNaik · Post by **SNaik** » 24 Feb 2015 14:18

negi wrote:
Philip wrote:Wasn't there a mention earlier that the MIG-29 had a better service availability record than the M-2000?
Unfortunately it is the other way round.

Russian Navy has a requirement for single engine take-off from carrier. For that reason RD-33 was up-rated for naval version of MiG-29.

Philip · Post by **Philip** » 24 Feb 2015 16:29

Interesting interview with DW on our naval buildup.

http://www.dw.de/naval-buildup-reflects ... a-18275292

Naval buildup reflects India's 'ambition to project power'

The rise of India as a major trading and resource-consuming power has prompted the South Asian nation to expand its maritime interests beyond its littoral region, says defense analyst Chietigj Bajpaee in a DW interview.
Indien Navy Kriegsschiff INS Ranvijay

The Indian government recently approved more than 16 billion USD to build advanced naval warships as well as nuclear-powered submarines. A major spender on defense, India is the world's largest weapons importer. The South Asian nation depends on foreign countries, particularly Russia and the US, for most of its military gear. The reliance on imports reflects the inability of the country's armaments manufacturers to make state-of-art equipment that meets the requirements of the nation's armed forces.

But since taking over in May last year, India's Prime Minister Narendra Modi has barely hidden his desire to change the state of affairs. In a bid to kickstart the moribund domestic defense industry, the Modi administration has raised the foreign investment cap to 49 percent, and encouraged multinational arms companies to set shop and "Make in India."

The decision to build naval vessels and submarines in India is seen as part of the administration's plan to ramp up the nation's domestic defense industrial base. Furthermore, the move is also viewed as an attempt by India to bolster its naval defenses, as the country's leaders seem increasingly concerned about China's expanding naval presence in the Indian Ocean region.

Chietigj Bajpaee
Bajpaee: 'India aims to strengthen the range and endurance of its naval vessels'

In this context, DW talks to Chietigj Bajpaee, an expert on Indian military at King's College in London, about India's plans to modernize its naval forces and bring them on par with the Chinese navy.

DW: What naval equipment is India planning to acquire in near future?

Chietigj Bajpaee: India has ambitious plans for the development of a 160-plus-ship navy, comprising three aircraft carrier battle groups by 2022. More than 40 warships and submarines are on order or under construction at the country's three major shipyards. These include stealth destroyers, anti-submarine corvettes and stealth frigates. These vessels will supplement and in some cases replace the country's older destroyers.

With respect to India's aircraft carriers, in addition to procuring the INS Vikramaditya (formerly the Admiral Gorshkov) from Russia in 2013, India is also constructing the country's first home-made carrier with the INS Vikrant due to be inducted by 2018-19 and plans for the development of the larger INS Vishal as part of the indigenous aircraft carrier-II (IAC-II) project.

The Indian Navy also has a particular focus on enhancing the country's submarine fleet with the construction of Scorpenes from France, the leasing of submarines from Russia, and upgrades to India's Russian and German-made submarines. The development of Arihant-class nuclear-powered submarines has also completed the development of India's nuclear triad.

Supporting the growing fleet of vessels, the navy is also inducting MiG-29K multirole aircraft and Kamov-28 and 31 helicopters to deploy from its aircraft carriers. It has also developed nuclear-capable submarine-launched ballistic missiles (SLBM), land-attack cruise missiles, and a submarine-launched supersonic missile that modifies its BrahMos cruise missile.

Indien Navy U-Boot
The Indian government wants the country's navy to have a fleet of nuclear-powered submarines

How will these purchases boost the country's maritime defensive and offensive capabilities?

These platforms aim to transform the Indian Navy – the world's fifth-largest – into "a brand new multi-dimensional navy" with "reach and sustainability," according to a statement by a former Indian Chief of Naval Staff. In doing so, India aims to strengthen the range and endurance of its vessels; incorporate stealth features; facilitate network-centric operations and carry a more lethal and longer range of cruise missiles.

Some platforms such as the P8-I Poseidon maritime reconnaissance aircraft are aimed at strengthening the navy's "maritime domain awareness." Others, such as USS Trenton (renamed the INS Jalashwa), a landing platform dock ship acquired from the United States in 2007, has enhanced the country's ability to conduct expeditionary operations and humanitarian missions.

Moreover, the fact that India is one of only three Asian countries and only ten in the world to maintain aircraft carriers illustrates its ambition to project power beyond its immediate sub-region. Similarly, India's interest in moving beyond its predominantly conventional diesel submarine fleet towards building up its nuclear submarine capability also points toward a growing interest in power projection beyond its littoral region.

Many believe the government in New Delhi wants to boost defense spending and modernize its military in order to counter the growing clout of China in the region. What is your take on this?

The "China factor" is only one of several factors driving India's naval modernization. First and foremost is the need to protect India's vast 7,500 kilometer coastline and exclusive economic zone that exceeds two million square-kilometers. In this context, the role of the Indian Navy and Coastguard has traditionally been confined to playing a supporting role to land-based operations and coastal defense and surveillance.

However, the rise of India as a major trading and resource-consuming power has prompted the country to expand its maritime interests beyond its littoral region. The numbers speak for themselves. Some 95 percent of India's total external trade by volume and 75 percent by value are now conducted by sea, including more than 70 percent of its oil imports. In this context, maintaining open sea-lanes and protecting the freedom of navigation has also emerged as catalyst for India's naval modernization.

Bildmontage Marine Aufrüstung Indien und China
'China is one of the factors driving India's naval modernization'

Finally, one cannot deny the presence of an underlying "China factor." The Chinese Navy's revolving ship deployment in support of anti-piracy operations in the Indian Ocean since 2009 was a wake-up call for India. More recently, there have been growing instances of the Chinese making their presence felt in the Indian Ocean Region, including a report that a Song-class diesel-electric submarine docked at Sri Lanka's Colombo port in September 2014.

Furthermore, in the context of China's increasingly assertive behavior in the East and South China Seas there are also latent concerns in India that China's behavior in East Asia may become a harbinger for its actions in South Asia. In this context, naval discourse in India increasingly places emphasis on sea-control and competitive naval diplomacy while moving away from a traditionally defensive maritime posture.

How does India's naval power compare to China's?

China's naval strength is reflected in its growing defense expenditure, which is more than three times that of India and has gone up at double-digit levels annually over the past two decades. By 2020, the Chinese Navy is expected to have 78 submarines of which 12 will be nuclear; 80 medium and heavily amphibious lift ships; and 94 guided missile boats.

In addition to the launch of China's first aircraft carrier, the Liaoning in 2009, the country is also in the process of developing two more indigenously-developed carriers (with ambitions for a total of 4-6 carriers).

How China is transforming the South China Sea
New images reveal the extent of China's land reclamation and construction in the South China Sea. Experts warn the new developments will make it increasingly difficult to counter Beijing's regional claims. (20.02.2015)

Beyond its expanding capabilities, China's naval power is also reflected in its rising ambitions. Similar to India, China also maintains a growing dependence on imported resources, which has prompted concerns over a so-called "Malacca Dilemma" referring to strategic vulnerabilities rooted in the country's dependence on resources imported through sea lanes patrolled by potentially adversarial countries.

This has led China's maritime strategy to move beyond its traditional focus on the first and second "island-chains" and rhetoric of reviving the country's "Maritime Silk Road," which refers to the development of ports and transshipment hubs along vital sea-lines of communication. China's deep-sea mining concessions in the southern Indian Ocean also demonstrate the country's long-term strategic interests in the Indian Ocean Region.

While India is not superior to China in the quantity or quality of its naval platforms, the India's Navy has generally outpaced China's in the sphere of maritime confidence-building.

This has been facilitated by the Indian Navy's prominent role in humanitarian assistance and disaster relief (HADR), including relief operations following the Asian tsunami of 2004 and the cyclone that struck Myanmar (Burma) in 2008. India has also been successful at regional confidence-building in the maritime domain fuelled by the growing frequency of joint naval exercises with regional navies.

What areas should New Delhi focus on in the future to develop its military as a counterweight to the Chinese?

India is seeking to strengthen its anti-submarine capabilities in response to the growing presence of Chinese vessels in waters of the Indian Ocean Region, as evidenced by the launch of the indigenously-built INS Kamorta guided missile destroyer in August 2014.

Interoperability is also a key capability that the Indian Navy will need to develop. This refers to expanding cooperation with other regional navies that maintain concerns about the rise of China's naval ambitions. There is already evidence of this with India and Japan holding their first bilateral naval exercises in June 2012 and India providing training to Vietnam in underwater warfare.

During the recent visit of US President Barack Obama to India in January, both countries also issued a joint statement noting the importance of the peaceful resolution of maritime territorial disputes and ensuring the "freedom of navigation" with specific reference to the South China Sea. This highlights both countries' joint concerns over China's increasingly assertive behavior in the maritime domain.

Indien Narendra Modi INS Kolkata
Modi's government wants to reduce India's reliance on foreign weapons manufacturers

In this context, India's tri-services Andaman and Nicobar (Southern) command, which was established in 2001, will play an increasingly important role given its strategic location near the Strait of Malacca and South China Sea.

China is likely to resist these efforts. Reports in July 2011 that an Indian Navy vessel, the INS Airavat, received alleged radio contact from the Chinese Navy demanding that the vessel depart disputed waters in the South China Sea after completing a port call in Vietnam illustrate China's opposition to an expanding Indian naval presence in East Asia.

Finally, despite its growing emphasis on power projection, the Indian Navy and Coastguard need to maintain a continued focus on coastal defense given the vulnerabilities that India faces along its poorly demarcated and partially disputed maritime border.

This was made evident by the terrorist attacks in Mumbai in November 2008 in which Pakistan-based militants infiltrated into India via the country's porous maritime boundaries.

Chietigj Bajpaee is a researcher at the department of war studies, School of Social Science & Public Policy, King's College, London.

The interview was conducted by Srinivas Mazumdaru.

ravip · Post by **ravip** » 25 Feb 2015 00:45

They have built the P15B very fast.

Karthik S · Post by **Karthik S** » 25 Feb 2015 04:08

ravip wrote:They have built the P15B very fast.

not able to see the image

member_23370 · Post by **member_23370** » 25 Feb 2015 04:37

Yup..what image???

Ankit Desai · Post by **Ankit Desai** » 25 Feb 2015 04:55

indranilroy sir still unable to see image posted by ravip.

-Ankit

VibhavS · Post by **VibhavS** » 25 Feb 2015 05:05

ravip wrote:They have built the P15B very fast.

Ravip well they are going pretty fast with Hull construction... wow thats nice... I wonder if they will proceed with fitting out at the same pace.

Indranil · Post by **Indranil** » 25 Feb 2015 05:14

Ankit Desai wrote:indranilroy sir still unable to see image posted by ravip.

-Ankit

No sir for me please.

Can you reach this link?
http://s7.postimg.org/nuq06qiop/p15b.png

Ankit Desai · Post by **Ankit Desai** » 25 Feb 2015 05:19

indranilroy wrote:
Ankit Desai wrote:indranilroy sir still unable to see image posted by ravip.

-Ankit
No sir for me please.

Can you reach this link?
http://s7.postimg.org/nuq06qiop/p15b.png

Yes I can but strange though. I can see it in Firefox but not in chrome !

Thanks anyway.

-Ankit

John · Post by **John** » 25 Feb 2015 05:41

Almost ready for launch so it be another 3-4 years from commission.

NRao · Post by **NRao** » 25 Feb 2015 06:02

India now puts aircraft carrier plan on fast track

India is trying to fast-track finalization of its long-pending ambitious plan to launch indigenous construction of its largest-ever aircraft carrier. Though the propulsion system for the proposed 65,000-tonne warship is yet to be decided, the plan is veering towards nuclear power for greater operational endurance.

The ongoing "detailed" naval study for this indigenous aircraft carrier-II (IAC-II) project has gained urgency since the ageing 56-year-old INS Viraat -- quite toothless now with just 11 Sea Harrier jump-jets left to operate from its deck -- will be retired next year.

India has to plan ahead since it will take at least 10-12 years to construct IAC-II, which will be christened INS Vishal, if it wants to systematically build military capabilities to counter China's expanding long-range naval deployments in the Indian Ocean Region, say officials.

China, after inducting its first 65,000-tonne aircraft carrier Liaoning in September 2012, already has a second one under construction and two more are in the pipeline to further bolster its expanding maritime power. Aircraft carriers, with their accompanying warships and aircraft, after all, are the ultimate symbols of military power projection around the globe.

"INS Viraat will be decommissioned after the International Fleet Review in Vizag in February 2016. It will not be cost-effective to go in for another major refit of INS Viraat, which was inducted from the UK in May 1987," said an officer.

This will leave the Navy with just one aircraft carrier, the 44,400-tonne INS Vikramaditya, the refurbished Admiral Gorshkov inducted from Russia at a cost of $2.33 billion in November 2013. The 40,000-tonne IAC-I or INS Vikrant being built at Cochin Shipyard will be ready for induction only by 2018-2019 after a long delay.

The construction of INS Vishal will also not be an easy task. It will take a few more months to "finalize the exact tonnage and the type of propulsion, aircraft and other parameters" for IAC-II. "The government will then have to take the final call," said another officer.

But the carrier will definitely have CATOBAR (catapult assisted take-off but arrested recovery) configuration for launching fighters as well as heavier aircraft from its deck. Towards this end, India has already asked the US to share technology for EMALS (electromagnetic aircraft launch systems), developed by General Atomics, under the bilateral Defence Trade and Technology Initiative, as reported by TOI earlier.

INS Viraat, INS Vikramaditya and INS Vikrant all have angled ski-jumps for fighters to take off under their own power in STOBAR (short take-off but arrested recovery) operations. "This limits the carrier operations to only fighters like MiG-29Ks. With CATOBAR, IAC-II will also be able handle more as well as heavier aircraft for surveillance, early-warning, electronic warfare and other operations," he said.

The importance of carrier battle-groups can be gauged from the fact that one such task-force can "control" around 200,000 square nautical miles of ocean area, and is capable of moving over 600 nautical miles a day. "The self-contained CBGs are the most versatile platforms of military power available," he said.

EMALS nuclear tied at the hips.

Singha · Post by **Singha** » 25 Feb 2015 07:31

what are the major differences between P15a and b?

John · Post by **John** » 25 Feb 2015 08:30

Image seems to indicate barak 8 module is bigger than 2 brahmos uvls cells. Which is different from p 15a where brahmos is considerably bigger. So it means # of barak 8 cells is considerably more, of course its all speculation.

Karthik S · Post by **Karthik S** » 25 Feb 2015 09:17

Singha wrote:what are the major differences between P15a and b?

Wiki page, which references India Today article, says brahmos II, Nirbhay missile and Barak 8 missiles will be part of the missiles package.

PratikDas · Post by **PratikDas** » 25 Feb 2015 09:30

From SJha1618

The export version of the DRDO developed sonar for shallow water craft has been designated the HMS-X2.

NID, Ahmedabad was actually roped in for that console.

From Janes:

Click for Hi-res

Singha · Post by **Singha** » 25 Feb 2015 09:48

^ finally the uber surgical franco-german look and colour MFDs...

Pratyush · Post by **Pratyush** » 25 Feb 2015 09:57

NRao wrote: snip...........
EMALS nuclear tied at the hips.

Not necessary, I would say that the steam cat & nuke would be tied at the hip, due to steam from the ships plant. The EMALS can be used with a GT powered ship as well. As long as sufficient installed power is available on board the ship.

The EMALS, solves the issues with piping required for steam for the catapults. Thereby saving weight.

Singha · Post by **Singha** » 25 Feb 2015 10:16

uptime will be higher for sure. and safer as no high pressure steam is being piped around. repairs will be easier at sea. and accleration will be smooth and finely tuned to the aircraft weight...might reduce the stress on the airframe.

negi · Post by **negi** » 25 Feb 2015 10:20

Check that transducer array model it is cylindrical and not spherical as being speculated some time back.

SNaik · Post by **SNaik** » 25 Feb 2015 14:28

Great walk-around of Indian P-8I
http://dron-sd.livejournal.com/18564.html

negi · Post by **negi** » 25 Feb 2015 14:42

Yep awesome stuff , it's a shame that IN will not allow similar access to a SDRE even if one were in INS Arakkonam .

Gagan · Post by **Gagan** » 25 Feb 2015 16:31

They are building another hull in the drydock right next to it. Modular construction blocks visible there.

These are TWO hulls in construction already !!!

Singha · Post by **Singha** » 25 Feb 2015 17:26

No I think its just large modules of the one ship being put together inside the drydock and then lifted and welded in place with the crane.

Eric Leiderman · Post by **Eric Leiderman** » 25 Feb 2015 20:48

Pratyush

The issue of catapult launch has been discussed threadbear, however over the lifespan of a steam generating/distrubuting plant. The mantainance issues with sending steam to do work and the return line for the said steam to return to a condenser, are expensive and time consuming. and there is downtime issues. The demand for steam varies very suddenly with a catupult launch, This will entail larger lines/condenser/mantainance etc.

E-Malls

Using a gas generator as a power plant is pheasable, however, The surge of power required, will have to be handled with some sort of storage device, eg very large capacitor banks( I am making an educated guess here)
sorry no spell chek done

Singha · Post by **Singha** » 25 Feb 2015 21:37

CVNs have the advantage of 4 cats, so mostly 2 will be working even in a bad case. with our smaller carriers we will only have 2 cats. I think french CDG has same problem - 2 cats 1 in bow and 1 in waist.

for us, reliability is even more paramount.

maybe if the ADS2 is 65000t it could have 3 cats.

brar_w · Post by **brar_w** » 25 Feb 2015 21:49

Interesting development if this thing ever materializes (EMALS)..Seeing Mig-29's at Lakehurst would be a sight

VinodTK · Post by **VinodTK** » 26 Feb 2015 06:52

China, India, and Japan are competing to develop their own aircraft carriers

Aircraft carriers are one of the ultimate symbols of a nation's military strength and ability to project force beyond its borders.

An aircraft carrier group is only fully operational when it has a reliable power source (either nuclear or petroleum-based), an accompanying carrier fleet for protection, and aircraft that can operate off of the carrier's deck. Meeting these requirements is an extremely costly endeavor that most nations either can't fulfill or sensibly choose not to pursue, based on the exorbitant price and the questionable hard-power value of a carrier for most of the world's countries.

Despite this, Asia may be in the midst of a carrier arms race, with China and India working on indigenous models. The following Reuters chart displays the aircraft carriers operating or under construction in Asia.

View gallery
.
Asia aircraft carriers
RNGS Reuters

China has the largest aircraft carrier in Asia in the Liaoning, a 302 meter former Soviet vessel which is capable of carrying 50 aircraft or helicopters. Although the carrier's size is daunting, the Liaoning is an older vessel that's prone to mechanical problems. It's more of a test carrier than an actual tool for Chinese force projection.

China is hoping to rectify that problem with an indigenously produced carrier that Beijing hopes will be ready by the 2020s. Currently, the carrier is still in the development stage and is not yet under construction.

India has similar carrier-related problems to China. Although it has three vessels, the Viraat is set to be retired next year and the Vikrant, though set to premier in 2018 or 2019, is years behind in delays and cost overruns. That leaves only the Vikramaditya operational — although, like the Liaoning, it's a repurposed Soviet carrier built in the early 1980s that suffers from frequent mechanical problems.

View gallery
.
India carrier
Reuters India's Indigenous Aircraft Carrier P-71 "Vikrant", built for the Indian Navy, leaves Cochin Shipyard after its launch in the southern Indian city of Kochi on August 12, 2013 India also hopes to complete two indigenous carrier s with US aid within the next decade, although the envisioned Vishal carrier has yet to progress out of the planning stage.

Japan's Hyuga and Izumo-class aircraft carriers are currently only used for helicopters largely due the country's current pacifist constitution, which prohibits Japan from building military forces for anything other than self-defense. The Diplomat notes, though, that the Izumo-class carrier could be outfitted with F-35Bs in the future.

Of all the carriers in Asia, Thailand's Chakri Naruebet is exceptional due to its small size and unique lack of capabilities. Constructed in the 1990s, the carrier today barely leaves port and has no dedicated aircraft fleet, due to funding shortfalls.

Ankit Desai · Post by **Ankit Desai** » 26 Feb 2015 07:16

Gagan wrote:They are building another hull in the drydock right next to it. Modular construction blocks visible there.

These are TWO hulls in construction already !!!

There is third one too @ 18.968099, 72.851241. It looks work on it already started than second one! Report says P-15B is of 163m in length. P-15B being constructed at yard #12704, 12705, 12706, 12707. There were tenders link 1 link 2 for same. P15B started from yard#12704 so its is the one which is ready to launch soon and on track to commission as planned by 2018 !

-Ankit

NRao · Post by **NRao** » 26 Feb 2015 07:25

Not necessary, I would say that the steam cat & nuke would be tied at the hip, due to steam from the ships plant. The EMALS can be used with a GT powered ship as well. As long as sufficient installed power is available on board the ship.

The EMALS, solves the issues with piping required for steam for the catapults. Thereby saving weight.

The topic covers a lot more. The focus is electricity. Perhaps EMALS will consume the most today, but the future will/should produce more systems that take advantage of electricity. The rail gun seems to be coming out of the shadow already. Lasers, etc will need a lot of power and in large amount.

I just cannot see ships relying on current set of technologies. Perhaps there are alternatives to nukes, but I am not aware of them - yet (outside of making fuel from sea water - which itself is in its infancy).

Austin · Post by **Austin** » 26 Feb 2015 12:25

India Considering Russian Shipyard for Construction of Advanced Warship

India is considering whether to place an order for four more warships with Russia's Yantar shipyard that has already built six frigates for the Indian Navy, the shipyard's acting chief executive told RIA Novosti on Wednesday.

"We will explore the possibility of new orders to build [vessels] for the Indian fleet. In any case, India has already said it is interested in acquiring four more advanced modified ships," Oleg Shumakov, acting CEO of Yantar shipyard, located in Russia's Kaliningrad exclave on the Baltic Sea, said.

Representatives of the shipyard are expected to discuss the question of future contracts during talks in India later in February, Shumakov added.

He described the shipyard's experience in building Talwar-class frigates for the Indian Navy as "fruitful and mutually beneficial."

Shreeman · Post by **Shreeman** » 26 Feb 2015 12:41

NRao wrote:

Not necessary, I would say that the steam cat & nuke would be tied at the hip, due to steam from the ships plant. The EMALS can be used with a GT powered ship as well. As long as sufficient installed power is available on board the ship.

The EMALS, solves the issues with piping required for steam for the catapults. Thereby saving weight.
The topic covers a lot more. The focus is electricity. Perhaps EMALS will consume the most today, but the future will/should produce more systems that take advantage of electricity. The rail gun seems to be coming out of the shadow already. Lasers, etc will need a lot of power and in large amount.

I just cannot see ships relying on current set of technologies. Perhaps there are alternatives to nukes, but I am not aware of them - yet (outside of making fuel from sea water - which itself is in its infancy).

Come on, NRao, you must have heard of the water car!

Austin · Post by **Austin** » 26 Feb 2015 22:21

India plans to buy 12 Japanese seaplanes US-2i

According to the source, the Indian military can purchase another five amphibians for the Coast Guard.

"On Saturday, a regular meeting of the Council of defense procurement, led by Defense Minister Manohar Parrikarom, which boosts the work of Indo-Japanese working group dealing with this contract, as well as expand its powers", - told the agency.

He noted that the working group is also considering the possibility of greater collaboration. We are talking about a license issue of US-2i in India with technology transfer, the source said. "These talks are from 2013, but in recent years, according to the parties, they have reached a decisive stage," - he said.

http://vpk-news.ru/news/24071

Philip · Post by **Philip** » 27 Feb 2015 10:22

The Talwars and their Russian variants,virtually similar,are excellent frigates and cost-effective too.all built at speed.4 more BMos equipped FFGs with B-8 in VLS silos ,plus a Russian gun/missile BPDMS would give these vessels superb capability,able to punch above their weight. Our domestic ship-building yards are chock-a-bloc with orders ,P-17As,P-28s,P-15Bs,etc.,and to meet the required fleet strength of major warships,this would be a good idea.It would then give us 10 Talwar class FFGs to complement the 10 P-17s in service/to be built. The ASW capabilities of the IN have to be ramped up asap as this report shows,the massive PLAN fleet of subs,which outnumbers even that of the US.

The acquisition of Japanese amphibs is laudable.One has been advocating the amphib acquisition for well over a decade ! However these amphibs have a major drawback in that they are not armed and cannot conduct any ASW ops. they are fine for SAR,recce,replenishing ships and subs at sea with vital components and supplies when they are in a pinch,evacuation of sick sailors,prosecution of suspected terrorist boats by special forces teams, firefighting,etc. ,but for ASW duties a clear no-no.I clarified this with the Japanese gent at AE.he was categoric that the amphibs would carry no weaponry.

Therefore,the IN must acquire a second type which can also perform ASW duties. They should be able to carry a large search radar,land on the sea,deploy dunking sonars like ASW helos,and be equipped with ASW anti-torpedoes ,depth charges and also carry anti-ship and anti-air missiles underwing.These armed amphibs would complement the P-8s and IL-38s in service.ASW warfare in the IOR is going to take a very high priority in the coming decade especially with the regular appearance of PLAN subs including nuclear boats.

China outpaces America in sub numbers – US admiral
Published time: February 26, 2015
http://rt.com/news/235651-china-us-submarine-fleet/

The Chinese Navy now has more diesel and nuclear attack submarines than America does, a US Navy admiral told lawmakers. Some of them are “fairly amazing” and Beijing is exploring new ways of projecting its power on the seas.

The Chinese are experimenting with new geographic location, length of missions and new weapons, Vice Admiral Joseph Mulloy, deputy chief of naval operations for capabilities and resources, told the House Armed Services Committee's Seapower Subcommittee on Wednesday.

“They may not be the same quality, but their submarine forces are growing at a tremendous rate. They now have more diesel and nuclear attack submarines than we have,” the admiral told the lawmakers. “They are producing some fairly amazing submarines and they are actually deploying them.”

The Chinese naval missions included at least three deployments into the Indian Ocean, Mulloy told the committee. They can also send strategic ballistic missile submarines on missions lasting for 95 days.

“We don't think they have nuclear weapons on board, but we've seen them producing the missiles and testing them,” the admiral said. "We know they are out experimenting and looking at operating and clearly want to be in this world of advanced submarines.”

The US Navy reported having 71 commissioned submarines. The Chinese, according to Pentagon estimates voiced last year, has 77 principal surface combatant ships, more than 60 submarines, 55 large and medium amphibious ships, and about 85 missile-equipped small combatants.

Read more
US could permanently base warships in Australia – admiral

Despite having world largest defense budget, the US has been looking wearily at other nations building up their armed forces. China is investing heavily in new technology, seeking to project its military power in the Pacific region.

Washington has repeatedly criticized Beijing, saying it’s using its military to put leverage on other regional players, including US allies like Japan and South Korea, in territorial disputes.

Philip · Post by **Philip** » 27 Feb 2015 16:12

"Waiting for Godot!"
http://www.naval-technology.com/news/ne ... ne-4520740

India delays induction of first Scorpene submarine
26 February 2015

The Indian Navy has delayed the induction of the first of six Scorpene-class submarines, according to Defence Minister Manohar Parrikar.

It was originally scheduled for delivery in December 2012.

Shipyard Mazagon Docks (MDL) in Mumbai, India, is building the vessels under a technology-transfer agreement with France's DCNS.

In a written reply to Dr Chandan Mitra, Parrikar said the delay is because of difficulties faced by MDL during the course of procurement of materials from foreign vendors.

The shipyard has reportedly augmented its manpower, infrastructure and industrial means to meet production targets.

In October 2005, a contract was awarded to DCNS to build six Scorpene-class submarines, as part of the Rs187.98bn ($4.16bn) Project 75.

"The 1,750t Scorpene-class vessels will be equipped with a sonar suite."

The Economic Times reported that the then Indian Defence Minister Arun Jaitley said last year that the vessel would be delivered by September 2016.

Powered by two diesel generation sets, the 1,750t Scorpene-class vessels will be equipped with a sonar suite that includes a long-range, passive cylindrical array, intercept and active sonars, distributed and flank array, as well as a high-resolution sonar for mine and obstacle avoidance, and a towed array.

Armed with SM-39 Exocet anti-ship missiles, the 67m-long submarines can dive up to a depth of 300m, require minimum manning and help reduce lifecycle costs.

Given this experience,who will guarantee that the same will not happen to the Rafale deal?

deejay · Post by **deejay** » 27 Feb 2015 16:35

^^^ I can guarantee the reverse.

pankajs · Post by **pankajs** » 27 Feb 2015 16:39

^^
That is the reason the GOI is asking Rafale to give guarantees on quality and delivery as I had stated on the Rafale thread. Rafale has in turn asked for guarantees on HAL's part which is understandable if they have to guarantee the overall timelines.

I hope the payment is delivery based and staggered.

shaun · Post by **shaun** » 27 Feb 2015 18:50

if one nation have X number of submarines , for countering it we need Y number of ASW ships, that's a pathetic solution!!
ASW naval platforms is just one aspect of submarine detection and hunting . With sub getting more sophisticated i.e. more silent and more endurance under the sea , the number of traditional ASW platforms needed for detecting a modern sub will keep on increasing. We can't match platform to platform with our hostile neighbours.

We need under water assets , in the form of sonobuoys , deep underwater sensors , etc which are networked with each other and also with other land , sea and aerial assets to make a ISR grid.
1. Aerial ASW assets of IN being augmented and by far the most sophisticated in the IOR
2. Naval ASW assets also being augmented , with new sonars , even the old ASW assets will have more detection capabilities.

Things that need to be done
1. Indigenous Tsunami warning like sonobuoys which can have dual purpose and thus remain invulnerable, needs to be deployed with cooperation from all likely tsunami affected nations , thus having widespread footprint and will be economically viable .TADPOLE sonobuoys already developed and deployed by IN , they are being dropped from aerial platforms and a choice of two selectable operating depths and three different operating periods up to 8 hours.

2. Underwater fixed sensors arrays for detecting submarines which can communicate using wireless acoustic modem.For underwater communication we have the technology in the form of Underwater Telephone (UWT), It is a medium power compact system, which provides speech, Morse code, digital data communication between Submarines or between surface vessel and Submarine using water as acoustic medium. The UWT conforms to NATO and EKM standards for Military underwater communication.

The underwater sensors i am talking about is given in detail with the following drdo link. Sensors are available but all the technologies need to be combined to make an effective under water ISR and operationalize in massive scale .

http://www.drdo.gov.in/drdo/pub/techfoc ... 13_WEB.pdf
http://www.wired.com/2013/04/darpa-subs/