Sunni Terrorist Fragments of Unstable Pakistan - 1 Feb 2015

Brad Goodman · Post by **Brad Goodman** » 03 Mar 2015 06:31

To buy a cellphone, Pakistan wants your fingerprints

In one of world’s largest — and fastest — efforts to collect biometric information, Pakistan has ordered cellphone users to verify their identities through fingerprints for a national database being compiled to curb terrorism. If they don’t, their service will be shut off.

Concerned about a proliferation of illegal and untraceable SIM cards, the directive is the most visible step so far in Pakistan’s efforts to restore law and order after Taliban militants killed 150 students and teachers at a school in December. Officials said the six terrorists who stormed the school in Peshawar were using cellphones registered to one woman who had no obvious connection to the attackers.

In the past six weeks, 53 million SIMs belonging to 38 million residents have been verified through biometric screening, officials said.

“Once the verification of each and every SIM is done, coupled with blocking unverified SIMs, the terrorists will no longer have this tool,” said a senior Interior Ministry official, who was not authorized to speak publicly about the government’s security policy. “The government knows that it’s an arduous job, both for the cellular companies and their customers, but this has to be done as a national duty.”

Brad Goodman · Post by **Brad Goodman** » 03 Mar 2015 06:36

Pakistan Re-equips Squadron With AEW&C Planes

ISLAMABAD — Pakistan's Air Force (PAF) Thursday stood up its unit of Chinese Karakorum Eagle AEW&C aircraft in a ceremony attended by the head of the PAF, Air Chief Marshal Tahir Rafiq Butt, and Prime Minister Nawaz Sharif.

Though the exact location of the ceremony was not given, it is believed to have been held at PAF Base Masroor in Karachi as the prime minister was known to have been in the city that day.

The ZDK-03 Karakorum Eagle is a dish-based AEW&C system mounted on a Shaanxi Y-8F600 aircraft. Though never confirmed, it has been speculated that the dish houses an AESA antenna.

Four were ordered in 2008 with the first delivered in 2010.

The four Karakorum Eagle AEW&C aircraft join the surviving three Saab Erieye AEW&C aircraft ordered in 2005 and delivered from 2009. One of the four Erieye aircraft was destroyed in a terrorist attack on Kamra Air Base in August 2012.

That makes it 7. Is that unusually high number considering they hardly have any depth?

"To cover all the length of Pakistan we needed additional AEW&C aircraft and ZDK-03 was the answer due to political and financial considerations," he said.

Former Air Commodore Kaiser Tufail says the PAF was not keen on their purchase.

"The [Karakorum] Eagle was purchased rather reluctantly, under pressure of [then President] Gen. Musharraf, as a political expedient [Chinese appeasement], and not because of any reasons of technical superiority," he said. "It would have been more cost effective to manage a single type than these two vastly different ones."

kickbacks for sure?

MurthyB · Post by **MurthyB** » 03 Mar 2015 06:38

Conflict: Mustard fields and mortar shells

“At times, a toy helicopter comes and goes round and round. The same night, the BSF shells us,” a villager says. He is most likely talking about surveillance drones.

A young man explains what the villager is trying to say. “We have often noticed that the flying object hovers around homes. If most people are there in the village and a drone cam is spotted, there is strong shelling the same night. Now even the kids know that a drone is flying and warn us.”

Brad Goodman · Post by **Brad Goodman** » 03 Mar 2015 06:40

Pakistani passengers stuck at New Delhi airport; PM takes notice

: Prime Minister Nawaz Sharif on Monday took notice of more than 200 Pakistani passengers stuck at New Delhi airport after an aircraft of Gulf Air had developed some technical fault.

Advisor to the PM on Aviation Shujaat Azeem was directed to contact concerned authorities and arrange a special Pakistan International Airlines (PIA) flight if needed, said a press release.

The prime minister also directed the Pakistan High Commission in India to look after the well being of the stranded passengers.

The Gulf Air flight GF-766 took off from Bahrain at 4pm on Sunday and was supposed to land at Lahore airport at 9pm, but due to thunderstorm the plane had developed a fault and was diverted to New Delhi.

Brad Goodman · Post by **Brad Goodman** » 03 Mar 2015 06:44

Kuwait provides US$32 million for Pakistan's 969-MW Neelum Jhelum hydropower plant

A deal signed in Islamabad will see the Kuwait Fund for Arab Economic Development (KFAED) provide an additional US$32 million for Pakistan's 969-MW Neelum Jhelum hydropower plant.

The agreement adds to a previous $42 million loan from KFAED and gives Pakistan's Water and Power Development Authority (WAPDA) a total of about $1.1 billion in funding from a number of foreign sources.

Pakistan has previously announced funding for Neelum Jhelum from the Islamic Development Bank (IDB), Saudi Fund, Opec Fund for International Development and the Export-Import Bank of China, amongst others.

Brad Goodman · Post by **Brad Goodman** » 03 Mar 2015 06:46

The latest viral sensation in Pakistan? Rape

In Punjab, it is no longer enough to gang rape a girl; it is also necessary to make a video of it. And what good is that visual record, if it is not shared with the world?

The men of Pakistan await, their fingers eagerly pressing buttons and sliding over screens, goaded by insatiable appetites that crave the violation of a woman's body.

They watch it again and again, they share it with friends.

For them, there is no shame in the consumption of rape, no evil in its dissemination, no cruelty in its continued propagation.

This is not a hypothesis, but a truth. A recent report by the BBC reveals exactly why. Sadia, a young girl living in a village in rural Pakistan, was gang raped by a number of men. (Her name has been changed to protect her privacy.)

They made a video of the rape and then shared it via Bluetooth and various cellphone-enabled social media. It went viral. Thousands of Pakistanis clicked on it, watched it and, yes, even shared it far and wide.

Making a video of a gang rape, watching a video of a gang rape, sharing a video of a gang rape, comes at no moral cost in Pakistan.

Our vigilant censors, who demonstrate such alacrity in imposing other bans, have none for this crime.

The video in question continues to be available on the Internet, both for viewing and sharing, its consumers unafraid and unashamed to participate, in this viral desecration of a young woman.

Sadia's story is far from unique. The armchair rapists who consume these videos have much else from which to choose. Facebook pages and other forms of social media continue to propagate and promote videos of sexual attacks on young girls.

Those who make them wish to shame the girls, exploit them not simply in person but again and again by spreading the material.

It is an effective strategy; there are millions of leering, lascivious and lecherous men awaiting their product, eager to do their part, watch rape, share rape and ultimately commit rape.

In a country where a woman can still be prosecuted for fornication and adultery or for filing a rape complaint, the innocent, the correct and the moral are always men, even if they are rapists.

A law was passed just last week criminalising the "character assassination" of rape victims. However, the absence of any political or judicial will to punish men who share video of sexual attacks online responsible for that action means the new law is unlikely to deter the practice.

In a country where men flaunt their piety, caressing their beards and hustling to mosques, sharing rape videos carries no moral sanction.

Under the glare of the media, Sadia's gang rapists have been caught and authorities have vowed they will be punished. And maybe they will be - if the case remains in the public spotlight.

If not, in the typical fashion of Pakistani rape cases, bribes will be paid, judges cajoled, appeals heard, and the men will go free to rape again.

As for Sadia's "other rapists" - the men who watch, share and gleefully, shamelessly consume such videos - they will go completely unpunished, for if there was any shame at all in sharing a gang-rape video then few would do so.

Pakistani masculinity, which prides itself on the upholding of personal honour, sees no dishonour in this complicity, no tragedy in this form of exploitation.

In the Islamic Republic of Pakistan, clicking on rape is not a crime, and so every man with a phone can partake of the violation of a Pakistani woman, endorsing and encouraging her destruction, without fear, without remorse and without accountability.

Hari Seldon · Post by **Hari Seldon** » 03 Mar 2015 07:15

I hope MEA shoots down any such application with extreme prejudice.

The trouble potential emanating from precedence in a case such as this are immense.

Pakistan singer Adnan Sami applies for Indian citizenship

Pakistan singer Adnan Sami has applied for Indian citizenship for a second time despite an earlier plea of his having been rejected by the Centre.

The 43-year-old singer -- whose earlier request was rejected some two years back -- has made his application to the Foreigners' Division of the Home Ministry.

"His application is under consideration," official sources said.

Last month, Home Ministry had asked Law Ministry as to whether Sami can be granted Indian citizenship. But Law Ministry refused to entertain the request, saying that the power of granting Indian citizenship lies with the Home Ministry under the Citizenship Act.

Vipul · Post by **Vipul** » 03 Mar 2015 08:08

Videos of Halaal Meat in Pakistan.

Rat meat used in Samosa and Keema Rolls in Pakistan.

Sastaa gosht aka Donkey meat in land of the pure.

Kashi · Post by **Kashi** » 03 Mar 2015 08:16

Vipul wrote:Videos of Halaal Meat in Pakistan.

Rat meat used in Samosa and Keema Rolls in Pakistan.

Sastaa gosht aka Donkey meat in land of the pure.

Remember a Paki politician saying "Degree is a degree, genuine or fake"

Gosht to gosht hai, chaahe choohe ka ho ya gadhe ka, halal hai na?

(Meat is meat, be it Rat, Donkey, chicken or mutton, as long as it is halal)

Tuvaluan · Post by **Tuvaluan** » 03 Mar 2015 09:58

http://indianexpress.com/article/opinio ... bulence/2/

One question pops up when you read Rajamohan's worthless drool that he calls his "strategic thinking"....should I stop reading or just go ahead and hurl. Consider this example -- apparently if it were not for the "hawkish elements" in India, India would be able achieve peace in pakistan. What an utterly clueless cretin -- and he refers to himself as a premier Indian strategic analyst.

Yet, Delhi has not been able to take full advantage of this at the diplomatic level. The presumed political need to posture to domestic audiences on Pakistan and an inability to check the hawkishness of large sections of the security establishment have limited Delhi’s room for manoeuvre in the northwest. Prime Minister Manmohan Singh had bold ideas, but did not have the support of the Congress to take them to their logical conclusion. Modi, too, is under much pressure at home to signal a hard line towards Pakistan, irrespective of its merits.

Does this idiot Rajamohan even read the freaking news? Here is some more of his "strategic" drool.
Apparently, the paki army has turned over a new leaf after peshawar...must be craving some of the potent paki hashish or was probably on it as he did his anal-e-sys.

hat might make the difference is Pakistan’s emerging recognition of its own vulnerability to extremism, especially after the attack on an army school in Peshawar last December. As Pakistan struggles to cope with the extremist challenge at home and on its western frontiers, Jaishankar would want to assess the scale and scope of this change and its implications for India.

Agnimitra · Post by **Agnimitra** » 03 Mar 2015 10:02

Hari Seldon wrote:I hope MEA shoots down any such application with extreme prejudice.

The trouble potential emanating from precedence in a case such as this are immense.

Pakistan singer Adnan Sami applies for Indian citizenship

Pakistan singer Adnan Sami has applied for Indian citizenship for a second time despite an earlier plea of his having been rejected by the Centre.

The 43-year-old singer -- whose earlier request was rejected some two years back -- has made his application to the Foreigners' Division of the Home Ministry.

"His application is under consideration," official sources said.

Last month, Home Ministry had asked Law Ministry as to whether Sami can be granted Indian citizenship. But Law Ministry refused to entertain the request, saying that the power of granting Indian citizenship lies with the Home Ministry under the Citizenship Act.

It would have been worth considering his immigration if it had been framed in the context of a policy and working model of migration of people based on certain value criteria connected to conditional citizenship:

http://forums.bharat-rakshak.com/viewto ... 9#p1802789

In the absence of such policy frameworks and agreements, this will only be a one-way street with some wishy-washy "diversity/tolerance" narrative accompanying it.

Prem · Post by **Prem** » 03 Mar 2015 10:15

Kashi wrote:
Vipul wrote:Videos of Halaal Meat in Pakistan.
Rat meat used in Samosa and Keema Rolls in Pakistan.
Sastaa gosht aka Donkey meat in land of the pure.(Meat is meat, be it Rat, Donkey, chicken or mutton, as long as it is halal)

Lets hope Tey are importing Chinese Gutter Butter to fry this meat.
http://www.businessinsider.com/chinese- ... il-2013-10

Kehat Abdul Suun Laai Gubodul,
Ik Din Aissa Aawega
Khota Khotte Khavega, Rat, RatKeema Banawega
Tubb Hi Genuine Paki Islami, Asli Puutar Kahawega

RamSuresh · Post by **RamSuresh** » 03 Mar 2015 11:20

Kanwal Sibal in Telegraph on Jaishankar Visit

http://www.telegraphindia.com/1150303/j ... PVWUfmUe_l

"Like a gambler we keep placing bets, keep losing, but keep hoping we might win one day"

"It may be that developments behind the scene justify the government's initiative. And maybe the gamble will pay off this time."

Behind the scene is the offensive defence capability?

pankajs · Post by **pankajs** » 03 Mar 2015 11:52

^

Our policy towards Pakistan has been marked by flip-flops and lack of coherence because an adequate answer to the complex and enduring challenges that we face from that country has evaded us so far. We have repeatedly reached out to Pakistan in the hope that in its own interest it will see the wisdom of ending its confrontation with India, and we have not been deterred from doing so even when our expectations have been repeatedly belied. Like a gambler we keep placing bets, keep losing, but keep hoping we might win one day.
........
........
Pakistan is persuaded that even if the dialogue process is broken by India because of Pakistan's provocations, it will resume talks eventually because, first, it has no choice and, second, the international community will pressure it to do so. It knows well that its intransigence will pay. With India now initiating foreign-secretary-level contact, Pakistan will conclude that its assumptions have been proved right again. It may be that developments behind the scene justify the government's initiative. And maybe the gamble will pay off this time.

My take has been different for quite a while and I *choose* to read the things in reverse.
1. We have no choice [but to talk].
2. International community will pressure us to do so [go back to talk]

Now if the above two are realities that we cannot walk away from, and I believe they are and I have stated the reasons before. Just showing up for talks does not hurt us as much as "flip-flops and lack of coherence". If we are forced back to the table *every time* why walk away and keep drawing red lines that we ourselves keep erasing? It highlights our failed diplomacy like no other act of ours. Believe me sitting down for talks through thick and thin would show us in a much better light. That is just on the optics.

Instead of a gambler continuously placing bets with the hope of winning but continuously losing instead, we should be like a tourist who go into a casino not to bet but to take in the sight and sounds of the place. Talking to Bakistan does not mean we have to agree to anything. We should be willing to discuss Kashmir and why not? Lets start talking about the return of POK. We are a status quo power even in Kashmir so pure chai biscoot talks are not an undesirable outcome for us. At least the very bad optics wrt the "flip-flops and lack of coherence" will disappear.

And to end it we allow *easy* victory to the tactically brilliant Bakis by our flip-flops. Not that it matters in the long run but why take the *No Talk* route if history has proven that policy wrong? It is also hurtful to our overall diplomacy with other countries when they see our "lack of coherence" in dealing with the Bakis. There is no need to inflict this upon ourselves.

JE Menon · Post by **JE Menon** » 03 Mar 2015 14:47

>>"Like a gambler we keep placing bets, keep losing, but keep hoping we might win one day"

Wrong analogy ... We're not putting money on the table. Unless we are talking chai-biskoot expenses. And even those, are relatively higher for the Paks. It's talk, and that's all there is, and will be - although the song and dance every time will be slightly different. Pakistan will be made to go down on its knees, slowly, patiently, relentlessly, and systematically - so long as it adheres to its current line. If it changes, stops harping on the TNT and accepts that it is just another country trying to make a living in this world, and abandons fully its designs on any Indian territory, then it can engage with us just like any other country. Otherwise, we will just let it stew in its own juices. This has been government policy for decades, under whoever TF was in power. Unless it attacks frontally, and then it will get back what it deserves. The only difference being that the current government thinks it deserves a bit more. Hence the eunuch clatter emanating from Islamabad about the border "voilations". Nothing more serious.

The choice Pakistan faces today is simple, and it has little to do with India: does it follow the US-Israeli line on Iran, and do what they want it to do, or not? Do they listen to what the Saudis (and some other GCC states) want them to do as a Sunni bastion, or not? This must not be confused with the easy notion that that the US/Israelis and the Saudi/GCCites want the same thing. There are some convergences, but not all. Pakistan is facing some hard choices. It must make the right one, and that is to look inward, and only inward, if it is to survive in one piece. Iran will deal with it differently than India has done. Consider carefully. Take the FREE advice, from a small-hearted Hindu.

Brad Goodman · Post by **Brad Goodman** » 03 Mar 2015 17:59

Rains bring havoc in Punjab, KP: 25 killed

Several houses collapse; communication links disrupted * Army on alert in wake of likely flooding in Nullah Lai in Rawalpindi

The roof of parliament has also started dripping due to excessive rains. Moreover, the roads in the twin cities were flooded due to which traffic flow was affected. Incessant rain and snowfall in mountainous areas of upcountry adversely disrupted roads and communication links. Several areas were cut of from the rest of the country due to the closure of roads by landslides and snowfall.

Mihaylo · Post by **Mihaylo** » 03 Mar 2015 18:01

Pakistan singer Adnan Sami has applied for Indian citizenship for a second time despite an earlier plea of his having been rejected by the Centre.

The 43-year-old singer -- whose earlier request was rejected some two years back -- has made his application to the Foreigners' Division of the Home Ministry.

"His application is under consideration," official sources said.

Last month, Home Ministry had asked Law Ministry as to whether Sami can be granted Indian citizenship. But Law Ministry refused to entertain the request, saying that the power of granting Indian citizenship lies with the Home Ministry under the Citizenship Act.

Time for Togadia to try a bit of GharWapsi?

[/quote]

Right..Adnan Swamy seems to be perfect name post Ghar Wapasi..

-M

K Mehta · Post by **K Mehta** » 03 Mar 2015 19:07

Last year's baki budget was about 40 billion$, defense budget was about 40% so about 16 billion$.

This year our military budget is as much as their whole budget. Let them try to keep up.

Shreeman · Post by **Shreeman** » 03 Mar 2015 19:21

^^^ You need an order of magnitude change. Let India double the budget and spend it in India, just for a year. That would fix matters. But its not happening under the excuse used previously from a sewing needle to bicycle to scooters to watches to....defense products. Just build roads/rail/airports for year with the double budget. Even that would solve the problem.

shiv · Post by **shiv** » 03 Mar 2015 20:03

JE Menon wrote:Pakistan will be made to go down on its knees, slowly, patiently, relentlessly, and systematically - so long as it adheres to its current line. If it changes, stops harping on the TNT and accepts that it is just another country trying to make a living in this world, and abandons fully its designs on any Indian territory, then it can engage with us just like any other country. Otherwise, we will just let it stew in its own juices. This has been government policy for decades, under whoever TF was in power. Unless it attacks frontally, and then it will get back what it deserves. The only difference being that the current government thinks it deserves a bit more. Hence the eunuch clatter emanating from Islamabad about the border "voilations". Nothing more serious.

The choice Pakistan faces today is simple, and it has little to do with India: does it follow the US-Israeli line on Iran, and do what they want it to do, or not? Do they listen to what the Saudis (and some other GCC states) want them to do as a Sunni bastion, or not? This must not be confused with the easy notion that that the US/Israelis and the Saudi/GCCites want the same thing. There are some convergences, but not all. Pakistan is facing some hard choices. It must make the right one, and that is to look inward, and only inward, if it is to survive in one piece. Iran will deal with it differently than India has done. Consider carefully. Take the FREE advice, from a small-hearted Hindu.

+1

saip · Post by **saip** » 03 Mar 2015 20:28

Vipul wrote:Videos of Halaal Meat in Pakistan.

Rat meat used in Samosa and Keema Rolls in Pakistan.

Sastaa gosht aka Donkey meat in land of the pure.

In China donkey meat is common in all restaurants. So Pakistanis are just following their tallel than mountain and deepel than the ocean friends.

Singha · Post by **Singha** » 03 Mar 2015 20:41

Landi kotal near khyber pass is so famous for its mutton people even drive up from peshawar for it, though peshawar itself has lot of markets.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bkbuFs8BSM8

Baikul · Post by **Baikul** » 03 Mar 2015 22:51

JE Menon wrote:^^so let me get this right: someone was selling donkey meat to a buyer who thought he was getting dog meat, only to sell it to the consumer who thought he was getting mutton?

Funny how they were all porking each other up and down the line.

Brad Goodman wrote:To buy a cellphone, Pakistan wants your fingerprints

This is actually an improvement. Until last week the Taliban was asking for an arm and a leg.

Vipul wrote:Videos of Halaal Meat in Pakistan.

Rat meat used in Samosa and Keema Rolls in Pakistan.....

Please complete the following:

Jab tak rahega samosey mein chuha....

Prem · Post by **Prem** » 03 Mar 2015 23:56

Samjhota Express, LoC violations discussed: Aizaz Chaudhry
Khisiani Billi, Paki Poaqay Phokey

OSAMAMABAD: Pakistan Foreign Secretary Aizaz Chaudhry said all issues of concern between India and Pakistan were discussed today. He was speaking at a press conference following a meeting with his Indian counterpart.He said issues ranging from India’s interference in Balochistan, the Samjhota Express case, and the line of control (LoC) ceasefire violations were brought to India’s attention.“We also raised the issue of delay in the Samjhota Express investigation. No investigation details on the incident have been shared with us by India,” he said.“Terrorism is not only Pakistan’s concern, but both countries are equally affected by it.”He said the letter sent by Mr. Modi via Mr. Jaishankar had been handed over to Prime Minister Nawaz Sharif.“We both have an understanding to fight and end terrorism. We are working to find a common ground from where we can start our joint efforts.”When asked whether the issue of Lakhvi came under discussion, Mr. Chaudhry said, “there wasn’t enough time to go into detail on every issue.”Mr. Chaudhry made clear that the Indian foreign secretary had come to Pakistan on directives of Narendera Modi, who has asked him to visit all South Asian Association for Regional Cooperation (Saarc) countries.Mr. Chaudhry said the overall tone of the meeting was positive and that both countries are ready to reflect on matters of importance to them.
Earlier in the day, Indian Foreign Secretary S Jaishankar met Prime Minister Nawaz Sharif at the PM House and discussed matters related to Saarc and bilateral ties between the two neighbours.Nawaz welcomed the meeting between the two foreign secretaries in Islamabad and hoped the process would continue. He underlined the importance of enhanced cooperation among Saarc member states.Mr. Sharif said it is imperative that the leadership of the two countries rises up to the expectations of the two peoples."We must think together, act together and move forward with the spirit of bringing the two nations closer to each other. The two countries should lend a hand of cooperation to each other to improve the standard of living of 1.5 billion people," said Nawaz Sharif.The primary agenda for the secretaries’ meeting was about promoting regional connectivity and trade even though both sides have an understanding about discussing bilateral matters.Indian diplomatic sources told Dawn that Secretary Shankar is on a goodwill visit to Saarc countries and that only Saarc related matters would be discussed by him during his visit.
Islamabad is the third stop in Jaishankar’s Saarc trip that began on Sunday. He earlier visited Bhutan and Bangladesh. He will travel to Kabul from here on Wednesday.Both sides are to hold what officials have been describing as “talks for talks” (dialogue on resuming suspended talks). ( Speculation by Pakiovulation Only)According to sources, bilateral relations and the security situation in South Asia came under discussion during the meeting."During talks with the Pakistani foreign secretary, I reiterated India's concerns on cross border terrorism, including the Mumbai case," S. Jaishankar told media representatives while reading out a written statement.He said he was glad to be in Islamabad as part of the Indian Prime Minister’s initiative of a Saarc Yatra."I conveyed the expectations of our leadership on Saarc and their determination to forge a cooperative relationship with all our neighbors," Jaishankar said.during the meeting, both sides discussed ideas and initiatives to take Saarc forward."He also said that both parties have agreed to work together to find common ground and narrow differences as ensuring peace and tranquility on the border was vital."

Peregrine · Post by **Peregrine** » 04 Mar 2015 00:46

Hina Rabbani Khar pessimistic about Pak-India ties

KARACHI: Former foreign minister Hina Rabbani Khar on Tuesday said that despite considering herself as an optimist, she could not see any positive coming out of today’s foreign secretary level talks between Pakistan and India.

“We can’t consider it [today’s talks] a big development as ties are at the lowest,” she said, adding there were no big events like Samjhota Express or Mumbai attacks to be blamed for the relations to get this worse.
Khar said the government of Prime Minister Narendra Modi was not serious in resolving issues with Pakistan. Wow! She is a quick learner

Cheers

Tuvaluan · Post by **Tuvaluan** » 04 Mar 2015 04:19

SAARC is a chai-biskooth circuit to aid blah-blah-blah. The real action for inter-regional trade is in some other forum.

Gagan · Post by **Gagan** » 04 Mar 2015 06:02

GANDHI to MODI Afghanistan have good relation with India

Vipul · Post by **Vipul** » 04 Mar 2015 07:55

Track Thoo diplomacy bringing India, Pakistan closer.

Senior diplomats, parliamentarians, policy-makers and journalists from Pakistan and India (Anybody having the list of desh drohis from India who participated ?) met for the fourth round of the Track-II Islamabad Dialogue to discuss the state of bilateral relations, ahead of the much anticipated meeting between the foreign secretaries of the two countries on March 3.

The two delegations discussed a range of issues including the resumption of bilateral dialogue, Jammu and Kashmir, opportunities for cooperation towards the stability of Afghanistan, the shared challenges posed by climate change and the role of the media in creating an atmosphere for conducive for improving bilateral discourse.

The Islamabad Dialogue was jointly organised by the Jinnah Institute and the Centre for Dialogue and Reconciliation (Sherry Rehman and her brigade of honey trappers) on the 26 and 27 of February, 2015. The conference is part of Jinnah Institute’s leading initiative on peace building through Track II diplomacy between India and Pakistan.

Special Assistant to the Prime Minister of Foreign Affairs, Tariq Fatemi met the delegates from India and Pakistan and gave a key note address outlining the foreign policy priorities of the government.

The participants began the two day dialogue by welcoming the upcoming visit of the Indian Foreign Secretary S Jaishankar and the opportunity it provided for a reset of bilateral relations.

In a joint statement after the meeting, they called on Islamabad and New Delhi to restart discussions on all outstanding issues and hoped that concrete progress would be made during the visit. Delegates discussed the prevailing political situation in both countries and its impact on shaping the bilateral relationship.

They emphasised the need for strict adherence to the ceasefire and maintenance of peace and tranquillity across the LoC and WB/IB. They recommended effective cooperation to address the issue of terrorism and the growing threat of extremism.

They recommended that hurdles to already agreed CBMs be removed expeditiously, especially those facilitating people-to-people contacts, travel and trade between the two countries and across the LoC. Additional CBMs under discussion should be finalized and implemented as early as possible.

They expressed the hope that resumption of dialogue will be the start of a sustained effort towards building the desired peaceful, friendly and cooperative relationship.

They urged implementation of the visa liberalization regime signed between the Foreign Ministers in 2012, which provided special non-reporting visa access and multi-entry 5 year visas for media persons; (Visa free access for the RAPES to cultivate Indians)

Senior journalists from India and Pakistan also dissected trends in print and electronic media, highlighting that a lack of information and understanding on both sides often prevented the media playing a constructive role in peace building. They called for opening up of airwaves for news and TV channels and a liberalization of the visa regime for media persons from both countries.

Participants welcomed recent developments in Afghanistan since the formation of the national unity government in Kabul and hoped that President Ashraf Ghani and CEO Abdullah Abdullah would lead Afghanistan towards greater stability. Delegates called for both India and Pakistan to cooperate in ensuring stability in Afghanistan, which is necessary for regional peace and progress. (Did the Indian delegates agree to the Paki viewpoints on Afghanistan? If yes they should all be summarily shot for Treason)

Finally participants noted the impact of climate change on South Asia and urged both governments to closely cooperate in addressing water management (More water through Indian Concessions), environmental degradation (Vacate Siachen), maintenance of catchment areas and alternate energy solutions (Know-how and financial help in setting up Windmills and solar power stations).

ramana · Post by **ramana** » 04 Mar 2015 10:08

JEM you are asking the kabila to put roots and settle down. Not happening as it is against everything they stand for.

JE Menon · Post by **JE Menon** » 04 Mar 2015 10:26

Exactly. Which is why the only real investment is in chai and bischooth, as well track thoo but you will note the latter expense is mainly Pakistani. Our people just suggest the menu items, sorry agenda...

We must all get down on our knees and thank Allah for giving Islam to Pakistan and providing them with one musharraf after another to express their Pakistaniyat, through vigorous and animated inner jihad.

Vikas · Post by **Vikas** » 04 Mar 2015 12:02

We should somehoe have our own Jingos of BRF become part of this Tack-II diplomacy through some backroom chaddi twisting of Mani, Thappad or Bevda

Imagine SS Anna or JeM or Shivji or Gagan or N^3 in a Track-II delegation visiting Pakistan and discussing bilateral relations.

member_28640 · Post by **member_28640** » 04 Mar 2015 12:05

Imagine SS Anna or JeM or Shivji or Gagan or N^3 in a Track-II delegation visiting Pakistan and discussing bilateral relations.

They have to be very very careful to call Shitistan as Pakistan and not as Crapistan, Al-Bak-Bak istan.. They should redirect the Track thoo to STFUP

Shreeman · Post by **Shreeman** » 04 Mar 2015 12:27

I dont know. Why cant something like this be arranged? The above named are all academics, author/journalists, distinguished citizens and so on.

pankajs · Post by **pankajs** » 04 Mar 2015 12:32

Such a group will not get representatives from the other side for it to be called a dialogue even if India is willing to foot the whole bill every time. ISI will ensure that.

SSridhar · Post by **SSridhar** » 04 Mar 2015 12:42

From NightWatch for the night of 03 Mar 2015

India-Pakistan: On 3 March, senior officials from India and Pakistan agreed to work together and to resolve all issues and disputes through dialogue. The agreement was reached during a meeting between Indian External Affairs Secretary Subrahmanyam Jaishankar and Pakistani Foreign Secretary Aizaz Ahmad Chaudhry. The discussions focused on bilateral relations and matters pertaining to the South Asian Association for Regional Cooperation (SAARC).

Indian External Affairs Secretary S. Jaishankar said the talks were held in a constructive and positive atmosphere. He said both the countries agreed to find common ground and decided to narrow their differences. He said Pakistan will be the next chairman of SAARC and India wants to work together with it to achieve the true potential of SAARC.

The Indian Foreign Secretary said both Pakistan and India have agreed that ensuring peace and tranquility on the border is vital. They discussed ways and means to resume the dialogue process between the two countries to move forward for resolution of all outstanding issues.

The visit of Indian external Affairs Secretary is part of his trip to SAARC member countries.

Comment: The language of agreement and cooperation is boilerplate that does not signify. It is the language of professional diplomats who are not empowered to make commitments.

On the other hand, the announcement is important because it indicates that Indian Prime Minister Modi apparently has not abandoned his initiatives to nudge SAARC into actually doing something to promote regional development through cooperation. Pakistan undermined Modi's initiative at the SAARC summit last November.

Shreeman · Post by **Shreeman** » 04 Mar 2015 13:45

pankajs wrote:Such a group will not get representatives from the other side for it to be called a dialogue even if India is willing to foot the whole bill every time. ISI will ensure that.

You dont create a whole new group, you just add a bunch of the lot by lottery to any track thoo meeting planned. track thoo people have to let the government know they are wandering, i am sure, even if they dont actually represent the government view. otherwise they dont pass immigration (no passport), like the hurrirats.

If mixed/unpredictable/representative groupings are not acceptable then track thoo dies a sad death. either way problem solved.

Gagan · Post by **Gagan** » 04 Mar 2015 15:42

AoA
I would have trouble talking with a straight face, try to remember to adress the father of their nation as Hafiz Saeed and not Hafiz suar saeed...

But the Track 2, the pakistanis think they are lobbying with Nai Dilli.
Just like they spend millions in washington dc, to try and cull support.
In DC, the wily netas and freeloaders gobble up everything that is on offer, and 'sometimes' do a little. They create a lot of noise from their musharrafs and release a lot of hot air after the pindi chana gosht offered by the Pakistanis. But in the end all the hot air is just that - hot air.

Our track 2 ers, are used for creating a lot of hot air, some newspaper farticles etc, India uses them to pass messages to the ISI and the fauji leadership. They probably had some influence on GoI's actions during the congress days, but now, its very doubtful.

In return, all that pakistan ever gets is, their baksheesh not being blocked, or the blockages lifted off, some hand me downs weapons of very doubtful value.

There is not much prospect of economic development or real growth if all that you have is a 'khairat wali' economy.....

Gagan · Post by **Gagan** » 04 Mar 2015 15:48

So how does Pakistan get leverage now that the BJP is in power hain ji?

Their usual modus operendi, is a terrorist attack, and then they can send messages saying:
1. Please talk, otherwise there will be more to come
2. Please talk, and we will prosecute these terrorists...

India never goes beyond chai-bisCOOT, pakistanis never intended to go beyond paying lip service to terrorism.
And of late the pakistanis have discovered that these terrorists make short work of their faujis, like the attack on a fauji mosque in a fauji residential colony in Pindi, a few years ago, (There they killed a Jernail, a few brigadiers, and lots of fauji afsar's kids), and Pesawar Army Public School type incident, where fauji afsar wives and afsar's children were killed.

So the pakistanis have lived by the sword, and are dying by it.

But India never goes beyond Chai-BisCOOT

Gagan · Post by **Gagan** » 04 Mar 2015 15:58

Of the 20 crore Pakistanis, the fauj and their families are about 40-50 lakh.
Now these 50 lakh people gobble up some 50% of that nation's budget.
Imagine 50% of the already smallish budget for the remaining 20 odd crore people...

Pakistan will keep on sinking economically unless they get rid of this fauj.
The Pakistan fauj OTOH will not spare pakistan or change its ways.

They still hang on the Two nation theory bullshit. They got their two nation theory handed to them in 71, and now gawd knows how many more two nation theories are brewing inside pakistan

Worse, in their saudi-arab worship, they have picked up the worst form of islamism that can be, the most narrow minded version of all. All this, to be viewed as better muslims in Arab eyes.

The arabs still call them 'gulams' and they've destroyed their culture and society in the process.

Hence, they will continue to be poor, unstable, illiterate, lack basic civic amenities, lack bijli-pani-petrol-healthcare and they'll gradually sink deeper and deeper into the abyss.

Peregrine · Post by **Peregrine** » 04 Mar 2015 16:19

Vipul wrote:Track Thoo diplomacy bringing India, Pakistan closer.

Senior diplomats, parliamentarians, policy-makers and journalists from Pakistan and India (Anybody having the list of desh drohis from India who participated ?) met for the fourth round of the Track-II Islamabad Dialogue to discuss the state of bilateral relations, ahead of the much anticipated meeting between the foreign secretaries of the two countries on March 3.

Vipul Ji :
Track-II Islamabad Dialogue: Round-IV: Indo-Pak diplomats, MPs meet to discuss state of bilateral relations

Participants of the conference included Sherry Rehman, Aziz Ahmad Khan, Najmuddin Shaikh,Salman Bashir, Farhatullah Babar, Mariana Baabar, Shafqat Mahmood, Talat Masood, Zahid Hussain, Saradar Attique Ahmad Khan, Mohammad Ziauddin, Shafqat Kakakhel, Amir Mateen, Arifa Noor, Hamid Mir and Murtaza Solangi. Indian delegates included Prem Shankar Jha, Jayant Prasad, Amit Singh Chadha, Sushhobha Barve, Suhasini Haidar, Jyoti Malhotra, Aakar Patel, Shubhra Chatturvedi and Omair Ahmed.

Cheers