Rafale & MMRCA News and Discussions-9 August, 2014

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Re: Rafale & MMRCA News and Discussions-9 August, 2014

Postby chaanakya » 13 Apr 2015 21:13

They announced scraping only after NaMo reached Germany. French are left without MMRCA tender and has to negotiate price for 36 R and technical terms, both of which have to be better than RFP. Being G2G it is now French Govt's responsibility to ensure that deal goes through and follow on deals are there.Scrapping of tender must have come as a rude shock to Dassault. MII is the only option for remaining follow on order. All fined tuned to create maximum impact. Let us see their reaction .

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Re: Rafale & MMRCA News and Discussions-9 August, 2014

Postby Avarachan » 13 Apr 2015 21:14

srai wrote:There wasn't that much money to begin with. If the original $20+ billion Rafale deal was signed, there wouldn't have been funds for anything else.


+1. The game that foreign OEM's are now playing is to offer genuinely attractive deals so as to suck up all of India's capital. Foreign offers are getting better because foreign OEM's are worried that Indian companies are advancing on their own, without any foreign involvement.

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Re: Rafale & MMRCA News and Discussions-9 August, 2014

Postby svinayak » 13 Apr 2015 21:18

chaanakya wrote:They announced scraping only after NaMo reached Germany. French are left without MMRCA tender and has to negotiate price for 36 R and technical terms, both of which have to be better than RFP. Being G2G it is now French Govt's responsibility to ensure that deal goes through and follow on deals are there.Scrapping of tender must have come as a rude shock to Dassault. MII is the only option for remaining follow on order. All fined tuned to create maximum impact. Let us see their reaction .

They will create a new G2G agreement for more squadrons. The tender has become irrelevant once the G2G channel with good prices has been opened.

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Re: Rafale & MMRCA News and Discussions-9 August, 2014

Postby Avarachan » 13 Apr 2015 21:18

brar_w wrote:If the highest cost being reported pans out its going to cost around $10 Billion for 63 odd aircraft. If you scale that cost up to the original 126 requirement, you are not very much off from the $20 Billion that was reported earlier. If I were to guess, the cost of actual TOT, investment into HAL and then producing the fighter in house would have significantly overshot the $20 Billion mark.


I agree. That's why I think India will only purchase about 63 Rafales. There's not enough money for 126 Rafales + Tejas + PAKFA/FGFA + AMCA. Something has to be reduced.

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Re: Rafale & MMRCA News and Discussions-9 August, 2014

Postby ldev » 13 Apr 2015 21:20

Part of Manohar Parrikar's interview on the Rafale acquistion.

http://ibnlive.in.com/news/centre-scrap ... 663-3.html

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Re: Rafale & MMRCA News and Discussions-9 August, 2014

Postby RoyG » 13 Apr 2015 21:25

I think the plan is to now go full throttle on Kaveri and LCA MKII. Su-30 will be purchased as well.

I think the long term plan will be slowly edge HAL, ADA, etc. out and get the talent and facilities to transfer over to the private sector.

Things are looking bright.

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Re: Rafale & MMRCA News and Discussions-9 August, 2014

Postby Mort Walker » 13 Apr 2015 21:28

indranilroy wrote:For me this is a really really bad decision. But don't care two hoots about HAL. But Rafale the production of Rafale would have built up an entire manufacturing ecosystem which was to be leveraged by Tejas Mk2, AMCA and FGFA. That is gone forever.

We had the French with this deal, now they have us. Well played!


The reality is that Dassault can not produce the Rafale in significant numbers domestically or for license production in India. It is far more complicated than the Mirgage 2000. The Indian aerospace manufacturing capability will come from Tejas Mk.2, Su-30 and AMCA. The FGFA is not going to happen for another 15 years as it is too much money and too much technical risk - not including political risk as the Russians have a history of abrogating contracts as seen with the Gorshkov fiasco.

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Re: Rafale & MMRCA News and Discussions-9 August, 2014

Postby srin » 13 Apr 2015 21:31

What's missing in this entire drama is the IAF, HAL, Dassault and EADS reaction. Not the official ones - I mean the leaks to selected journos. All quiet. I think the entire MoD is shell-shocked. Contrast with what happened during the pak terror boat incident. We should wait for a couple of days for all the gripes, allegations to be leaked and for a couple of months for media hit jobs on MP.

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Re: Rafale & MMRCA News and Discussions-9 August, 2014

Postby member_23370 » 13 Apr 2015 21:35

Lets wait and see if in the next few weeks if there is going to be any announcement on Tejas. I think NaMo and Parrikkar will make sure it gets inducted into IAF in numbers before their first term gets over.

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Re: Rafale & MMRCA News and Discussions-9 August, 2014

Postby arshyam » 13 Apr 2015 21:36

^^ And also have enough committed orders for the future in case 2019 doesn't go their way.

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Re: Rafale & MMRCA News and Discussions-9 August, 2014

Postby arshyam » 13 Apr 2015 21:38

Btw, did Parrikkar say anything about LCA mk2 specifically, or just that LCAs will replace the MiG-21s? Maybe he is telling the IAF to get ready to accept the Mk-1 itself in more numbers?

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Re: Rafale & MMRCA News and Discussions-9 August, 2014

Postby ldev » 13 Apr 2015 21:38

I may be wrong, but watching that Parrikar interview on ibn, he says and I paraphrase, " We have NOT purchased 36 aircraft, what happens when a PM and President talk is that there is in principle approval."

I take this to mean that Modi has offered to purchase the Rafale on a Government to Government basis provided the price is better than the RFP price. IF the French Government comes back with such a price, then India will purchase at least 36 aircraft, additional actual numbers of aircraft to be purchased (beyond the initial 36) will be decided after that. But since it is an expensive aircraft according to Parrikar, it will not replace the Mig 21 on a 1 for 1 basis. That job is for the LCA.

What is unspoken is that if the French do not come back with an acceptable price, then GOI is free to look at other options for a Government to Government purchase for another aircraft. And Modi is now in Germany probably quietly lining up the Typhoon as a back up just in case...... And because all future defence purchases (deemed strategic) will be on a G to G basis, the timeline for induction will be greatly reduced.
Last edited by ldev on 13 Apr 2015 21:44, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Rafale & MMRCA News and Discussions-9 August, 2014

Postby Mort Walker » 13 Apr 2015 21:43

^^^The French will go out of their way to get the 36 Rafales to India otherwise the door closes for them for future sales.

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Re: Rafale & MMRCA News and Discussions-9 August, 2014

Postby chaanakya » 13 Apr 2015 21:43

Mort Walker wrote: risk as the Russians have a history of abrogating contracts as seen with the Gorshkov fiasco.

Gorshkov deal wan not abrogated. You can't hide money needed for Arihant design and nuke reactor for sub and tech manpower in postal budget. All Smoke and screen. Saar.

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Re: Rafale & MMRCA News and Discussions-9 August, 2014

Postby srin » 13 Apr 2015 21:45

ldev wrote:I may be wrong, but watching that Parrikar interview on ibn, he says and I paraphrase, " We have NOT purchased 36 aircraft, what happens when a PM and President talk is that there is in principle approval."

I take this to mean that Modi has offered to purchase the Rafale on a Government to Government basis provided the price is better than the RFP price. IF the French Government comes back with such a price, then India will purchase at least 36 aircraft, additional actual numbers of aircraft to be purchased will be decided after that. But since it is an expensive aircraft according to Parrikar, it will not replace the Mig 21 on a 1 for 1 basis. That job is for the LCA.

What is unspoken is that if the French do not come back with an acceptable price, then GOI is free to look at other options for a Government to Government purchase for another aircraft. And Modi is now in Germany probably quietly lining up the Typhoon as a back up just in case...... And because all future defence purchases (deemed strategic) will be on a G to G basis, the timeline for induction will be greatly reduced.


+1. That's a very important nuance. Also explains the meeting of French President with Dassault.

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Re: Rafale & MMRCA News and Discussions-9 August, 2014

Postby chaanakya » 13 Apr 2015 21:48

ldev wrote:I may be wrong, but watching that Parrikar interview on ibn, he says and I paraphrase, " We have NOT purchased 36 aircraft, what happens when a PM and President talk is that there is in principle approval."

I take this to mean that Modi has offered to purchase the Rafale on a Government to Government basis provided the price is better than the RFP price. IF the French Government comes back with such a price, then India will purchase at least 36 aircraft, additional actual numbers of aircraft to be purchased (beyond the initial 36) will be decided after that. But since it is an expensive aircraft according to Parrikar, it will not replace the Mig 21 on a 1 for 1 basis. That job is for the LCA.

What is unspoken is that if the French do not come back with an acceptable price, then GOI is free to look at other options for a Government to Government purchase for another aircraft. And Modi is now in Germany probably quietly lining up the Typhoon as a back up just in case...... And because all future defence purchases (deemed strategic) will be on a G to G basis, the timeline for induction will be greatly reduced.

I share your view. LCA for MIG 21 is very clear. 36 in principle is also clear and within 2 years. Two teams would sit together and work out finer details. :twisted: MMRCA is gone. MII remains an option . LCA is the biggest winner here. IAF will have no option but to have LCA. Eurofighter Typhon could have a chance under G2G. Germany must be trying hard with NaMo.
I tell you this Gujju is very business savy.

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Re: Rafale & MMRCA News and Discussions-9 August, 2014

Postby arshyam » 13 Apr 2015 21:54

chaanakya wrote:I tell you this Gujju is very business savy.

Yep, way more than I expected.

ldev-ji, your nuance explains it all. Also why NaMo announced this when in Paris, with Parrikar saying his stuff in coordination. Now the Germans must have been on the back foot and scrambled to offer something. Let's see.

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Re: Rafale & MMRCA News and Discussions-9 August, 2014

Postby Singha » 13 Apr 2015 22:07

Parrikar sir has said nothing about Mk1 or Mk2 and anyway let us talk of a certain set of capabilities and tranches than mk1 or mk2. but he has made it very clear the tejas has to replace the Mig21. both EF and Rafale have been through a lot of "updates" and so has the JSF which has not even entered FOC yet.

the statement below is like a diwali rocket through the chimney of vayu bhavan .... I suspect there will be a meeting with air chief and his staff post return with a scowling namo also in attendance.

---
Speaking to CNN-IBN, Defence Minister Manohar Parrikar claimed that Rafale fighters cannot replace the ageing MiG-21 which will be phased out in the next 6-10 years.

Parrikar said that India's indigenous Light Combat aircraft Tejas will replace MiG 21 as both are almost of the same category while the Rafale is a much bigger jet with a longer range and more weapons carrying capabilities. "We have not purchased any new aircraft of latest technology in the past 15 years. IAF desperately needs fourth generation aircraft, the fifth generation that we are working on will take 10-15 years," said Parrikar.

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Re: Rafale & MMRCA News and Discussions-9 August, 2014

Postby Singha » 13 Apr 2015 22:15

ball totally in IAF court now. they can carry on interminably Arjun type trials to attain the mythical Mk2 FOC in 2025 but lose 10 squadrons to retirement in between or work out a plan to accept Mk1.1, Mk1.2 and Mk1.3 to blend into Mk2 IOC .

and without their help and support the project will run slow. all the guys who are against the Tejas but exercising influence now will have to be given other positions and more can-do people put in their shoes. DM will need to run bi weekly ops reviews and resolve "culture" problems.

instead of Sulur, they should base their people in Yelehanka or the now empty HAL airport itself and work things closer with HAL. there is plenty of apron in Yelehanka for a squadron of Tejas as AI shows reveal and onlee few Mi17 and An32 are based there which can continue in parallel.

Sulur was the equivalent of a cellular jail type assignment to bury the tejas for good.

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Re: Rafale & MMRCA News and Discussions-9 August, 2014

Postby Indranil » 13 Apr 2015 22:26

I am happy for IAF, not for the country. And you guys should forgive me for not having blind faith in Modi's skills or comprehension of the Indian aviation industry. I place way more faith on the guys negotiating the deal with decades of experience. Also, I don't mind the grind if it gets the best for the country. Much, much more than this blaze of glory.

Time will tell whether we ultimately get 63 Rafales or 126 Rafales, and whether this translates to more orders for Tejas Mk2. Currently, I see none given what ACM Raha has been saying about the Rafales.

Fact is that we had a golden chance by being the only country which could/wanted to buy 126 Rafales today. They needed us BADLY and we were trying to get the most out of the deal. The French were trying to keep as much to themselves as they could. Now, we just let them keep EVERYTHING. Well done! We can all pat each others backs!

The Rafale conundrum: Lessons to be learnt (By Admiral Arun Prakash (Retd))

Given HAL's dismal track record of poor quality control in every product it has delivered to the three Services, Dassault's reservations are understandable. However, this issue should have been addressed by the French company before it submitted its bid and not at the stage of contract negotiations. This appears to be almost a replay of the serious problems faced by the MoD in the Scorpene submarine project. In that latter case, M/S Thales of France invoked some fine print in the contract after it had been signed in good faith, leading to huge time delays and cost overruns. Obviously, there is need for caution when dealing with French firms.


This is the last on this from me.

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Re: Rafale & MMRCA News and Discussions-9 August, 2014

Postby KrishG » 13 Apr 2015 22:30

Good job!

It really takes some guts to make this sort of decision!!! So kudos!

Now, this is just the start. We need to give Tejas the kind of importance it has always needed so as to speed up the program and to induct the bird in huge numbers starting now.

The Rafale deal if sanctioned in its full number would have given IAF another reason to drag it's feet/take things slowly from the Tejas program as Rafale would have provided some numbers. But now that Tejas is the only option left, hope IAF/ MoD/ ADA/ HAL work towards speedy induction of Mk-1/Mk1.5 and the speedy development of Mk-2.

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Re: Rafale & MMRCA News and Discussions-9 August, 2014

Postby chaanakya » 13 Apr 2015 22:37

Singha wrote:ball totally in IAF court now. they can carry on interminably Arjun type trials to attain the mythical Mk2 FOC in 2025 but lose 10 squadrons to retirement in between or work out a plan to accept Mk1.1, Mk1.2 and Mk1.3 to blend into Mk2 IOC .

and without their help and support the project will run slow. all the guys who are against the Tejas but exercising influence now will have to be given other positions and more can-do people put in their shoes. DM will need to run bi weekly ops reviews and resolve "culture" problems.

instead of Sulur, they should base their people in Yelehanka or the now empty HAL airport itself and work things closer with HAL. there is plenty of apron in Yelehanka for a squadron of Tejas as AI shows reveal and onlee few Mi17 and An32 are based there which can continue in parallel.

Sulur was the equivalent of a cellular jail type assignment to bury the tejas for good.


Ball is out of IAF court. Tejas fits perfectly in MII category. It will be pushed hard. They gave IOC under pressure. But FOC will be willingly. Because between Rafale and SU30MKI they won't get much as of now.

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Re: Rafale & MMRCA News and Discussions-9 August, 2014

Postby GeorgeWelch » 13 Apr 2015 22:46

ldev wrote:What is unspoken is that if the French do not come back with an acceptable price, then GOI is free to look at other options for a Government to Government purchase for another aircraft. And Modi is now in Germany probably quietly lining up the Typhoon as a back up just in case...... And because all future defence purchases (deemed strategic) will be on a G to G basis, the timeline for induction will be greatly reduced.


If speed and affordability is a concern, Boeing stands by ready to fill your squadrons lickety-split ;)

Now that the MRCA has been killed, it's time to finish the job and ditch the ill-conceived selection process and start considering the cost-benefit ratio.

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Re: Rafale & MMRCA News and Discussions-9 August, 2014

Postby ldev » 13 Apr 2015 22:52

GeorgeWelch wrote:
ldev wrote:What is unspoken is that if the French do not come back with an acceptable price, then GOI is free to look at other options for a Government to Government purchase for another aircraft. And Modi is now in Germany probably quietly lining up the Typhoon as a back up just in case...... And because all future defence purchases (deemed strategic) will be on a G to G basis, the timeline for induction will be greatly reduced.


If speed and affordability is a concern, Boeing stands by ready to fill your squadrons lickety-split ;)

Now that the MRCA has been killed, it's time to finish the job and ditch the ill-conceived selection process and start considering the cost-benefit ratio.


You may just get your chance!!

If you watch that Parrikar interview on that link I posted on the previous page and listen very carefully to the Minister at the 4.30-4.40 mark, he says (I think he is responding in Hindi at that stage), he says that the replacement for the Mig 21 will be the LCA OR a similar light, single engined aircraft.

Presumably what he means is that if HAL does not get its act together for the LCA, then the Ministry may have to go with some other light aircraft options!!

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Re: Rafale & MMRCA News and Discussions-9 August, 2014

Postby arshyam » 13 Apr 2015 22:58

This is getting OT, so my last on this

Singha wrote:the statement below is like a diwali rocket through the chimney of vayu bhavan .... I suspect there will be a meeting with air chief and his staff post return with a scowling namo also in attendance.
:rotfl: :rotfl:
I would love be a fly on the wall in such a meeting :)

Singha wrote:Sulur was the equivalent of a cellular jail type assignment to bury the tejas for good.
Singha saar, not if IAF were to base its frontline fighters there in parallel with the Tejas, right? If Sulur were destined to get only the Tejas then what you may make sense, but with the MKI operating out of there, IAF is surely investing and building up the place. Plus, per our main site (http://www.bharat-rakshak.com/IAF/Units ... -BRDs.html), 5 BRD is based out of Sulur, which means that the IAF is thinking of having them ramp up on servicing the Tejas. True, Sulur is far from the frontier, but it is a start, especially when we don't have ready made servicing and operational manuals to use and need to build these with experience.

YNK is a good option too, but it does not have a BRD, and maybe that was the reason for picking up Sulur. JMT.

Article stating the MKI plan for Sulur:
http://www.thehindu.com/todays-paper/tp ... 190345.ece
The Air Force Station at Sulur here will get Sukhoi-30 MKI combat aircraft in 2016, Air Marshal R.K. Jolly, Air Officer Commanding-in-Chief, Southern Air Command, said here on Tuesday.

The IAF station and the fighter base to become operational in Thanjavur will be equipped to progressively build air capabilities in the southern region, he told reporters.

A new runway had been completed, a parallel taxi track was getting ready and other infrastructure development were on at Sulur. These would cater for the Su-30 MKI Squadron and also the Light Combat Aircraft (LCA) when the squadron was formed. Referring to the delay in the induction of the LCA, the Air Marshal said that the LCA Squadron would be formed either along with the Su-30 MKI Squadron or “probably after that”.
<snip>

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Re: Rafale & MMRCA News and Discussions-9 August, 2014

Postby nachiket » 13 Apr 2015 23:02

Well, the silver lining is that we can finally close this thread now. :lol:

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Re: Rafale & MMRCA News and Discussions-9 August, 2014

Postby Melwyn » 13 Apr 2015 23:05

nachiket wrote:Well, the silver lining is that we can finally close this thread now. :lol:


Exactly my thought too!
Just curious, when was this thread first opened and who made the first post.

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Re: Rafale & MMRCA News and Discussions-9 August, 2014

Postby Rakesh » 13 Apr 2015 23:13

I second the motion to close this thread. MMRCA is dead.

Admins, can you please close this thread? We need to start a new one. Maybe the subject heading should be Katrina comes home :-o

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Re: Rafale & MMRCA News and Discussions-9 August, 2014

Postby vinod » 13 Apr 2015 23:38

^^^ I doubt it is over completely.. agreed its now like flogging a dead horse. I guess we should wait until a french confirmation and the final rites are done.

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Re: Rafale & MMRCA News and Discussions-9 August, 2014

Postby ramana » 13 Apr 2015 23:45

vinod wrote:
kit wrote:France had a better grip on the ground realities in india than say the inter communications and understanding between the IAF,MOD and PMO. They had analyzed India would come their way , so kept on with their stance.That how "intelligence" works doesn't it ..economic or defense the one who knows the other cards would win !


Well, if press could gain access to our ministries so easily, all they had to do was walk up to an mod official pay money and get the docs. Isn't that what was happening in UPA ministries?

My question is, did French lose the big prize? don't they lose out billions if they hold out like this and India ends up not buying the remaining planes from France?



Bravo for saying this before any news broke.

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Re: Rafale & MMRCA News and Discussions-9 August, 2014

Postby ramana » 14 Apr 2015 00:02

Not yet ready close the thread. We need more after action reports.

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Re: Rafale & MMRCA News and Discussions-9 August, 2014

Postby ramana » 14 Apr 2015 00:05

Philip on April 6th I posted for you to think about....

viewtopic.php?p=1823809#p1823809



ramana wrote:Philip, A few things:
- France support right after POK II tests and later NSG deserve some reciprocity
- France cancelling the Mistrals after money was paid shows they are vulnerable to pressure. Keep in mind the Exocet data during Falklands. Supplier reliability is a ?
- Rafale price hikes after winning the technical competition.

-GOI has to keep all things in mind and hedge.

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Re: Rafale & MMRCA News and Discussions-9 August, 2014

Postby Cain Marko » 14 Apr 2015 03:41

Whoa, didn't expect things to move so damn fast. What is clear now is as follows:

Some (30-60) Western MRCA will be bought quickly - with Rafale still 95% likely to win since Modi has given his word "in principle". But that won't stop Boeing, LM, Saab, UAC et al., from making all sorts of offers. And EF of course, considering it also passed the technical test.

Question is: Does this create a small opening for the JSF?

This is seriously Dassault's deal to lose. India is still in the commanding position. Parrikar makes this clear since "negotiations are STILL on, and NO purchase has been made yet". A bad price, and Dassault is out and the rest in.

Chances for the Tejas are excellent. But I smell an opening for the Gripen as well based on what MP said as per Ldevji's translation.

The good part is, we can expect a decision soon. But I sure expect some massive pressure from the other vendors. Basically two vendors need to really step up to the plate: dassault in terms of price, and HAL in terms of productivity with the caveat that GOI will be more lenient with HAL and Tejas. The IAF too will feel the heat most likely as Singha garu has said.

Positives to take away:
IAF gets some combat power with a quick decision
Tejas gets a golden opportunity - hopefully all the actors involved step up

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Re: Rafale & MMRCA News and Discussions-9 August, 2014

Postby brar_w » 14 Apr 2015 03:44

Question is: Does this create a small opening for the JSF?


Not even a tiny one ! You can ignore all other reports about the typhoon, gripen et al. In fact the Gripen exec interview at StratPost was quite amusing where he claimed he didn't wish to compete with the MRCA and honors India's decision, and he also doesn't want to compete with the LCA/AMCA. I guess he just wants them to buy his aircraft, without any competition because it was incapable of winning one.

Anyway, the question is about when (delivery), how many (beyond 36), and at what cost.

I agree with other fellow members that we should close this thread as the MMRCA is now dead. We can have a clean sheet Rafale G2G thread :D

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Re: Rafale & MMRCA News and Discussions-9 August, 2014

Postby Cain Marko » 14 Apr 2015 03:52

^ I'd tend to agree with your assessment, but considering how volatile this has been of late, I am not counting the Rafales yet. For ex. what if the price that Dassault quotes with spares, support, weapons etc., is not to GOI's liking? "twixt the cup and the lip" etc...

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Re: Rafale & MMRCA News and Discussions-9 August, 2014

Postby brar_w » 14 Apr 2015 03:57

The PM would not make a public announcement if the MOD, and his office did not have a solid number both for the HIGH and the LOW cost this deal could potentially end up costing. It was announced at the highest level!

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Re: Rafale & MMRCA News and Discussions-9 August, 2014

Postby Cain Marko » 14 Apr 2015 04:03

True that...

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Re: Rafale & MMRCA News and Discussions-9 August, 2014

Postby nachiket » 14 Apr 2015 04:37

If the Kargil war had blown up into something bigger, the IAF had a huge advantage at the time over the PAF. It had 6 squadrons of BVR capable fighters compared to PAF's zero. The only PAF jets which matched what we had were F-16's and even they were few and suffering from lack of spares.

Now 16 years later PAF is happily inducting JF-17's and more F-16s and has upgraded their current ones with better avionics, while we have spent countless man hours evaluating the best aircraft available, then countless more chai-biskoot sessions for babus negotiating with Dassault, made grand proclamations of deep ToT and license manufacture and all we have ended up with is TWO squadrons of Rafale's obtained off the shelf (which we will get 2-3 years down the line) with no clear roadmap as to where we go from here. The IAF's edge over the PAF has seriously eroded and is destined to slide further and the LCA order still stands at a grand total of 40 aircraft.

I used to think the artillery procurement was the biggest f***-up our govt.+babucracy ever made, but this fiasco may have just stolen the honors from it.

vina
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Re: Rafale & MMRCA News and Discussions-9 August, 2014

Postby vina » 14 Apr 2015 04:46

Sorry, this MMRCA / Rafale/ whatever business is just plain Kakkoose (Toilet).The deal in the first place never made any sense and should have been scrapped outright. There is nothing that the Rafale brings to the table that a SU-30MKI does not in substantial terms. If you need more so-piss-tication, well, go for a SU-30 upgrade with say an active radar and electronic warfare systems.

The Rafale/EF makes sense for operators who DONT have an SU-30 MKI class plane. We already have a huge fleet. If the question was numbers, we could have cranked out two more squadrons in two years beyond what was planned out of our plants in Nashik/wherever the SU-30s are made. Handing out $4/$5/$6 whatever billion as a "pacifier" to anyone makes no sense, in addition to lifecycle costs and spares and a 40 year commitment,for two squadrons? The govt should have simply pulled the plug on this one.

What really was needed was more builds of SU-30 airframes, a crash plan to go for a Su-30 Upg with full updated avionics flowing down from the Tejas and maybe roping in Israelis for an active array radar and electronic warfare system. As far as I can see, that is the only thing the Rafale brings to the table over the MKI. That kind of upg would have cost less than $3b tops and spread over a fleet of 250 odd airframes.

We need only two airframes, the Tejas and the MKI . I never could understand the "medium" business and still don't , on how it fits, where it fits and what is the need for that at all!

shiv
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Re: Rafale & MMRCA News and Discussions-9 August, 2014

Postby shiv » 14 Apr 2015 05:08

Oh for an MMRCA-thread mukt-BRF!

IB4TL

When the Rafale was selected - I started that damn thread call "Katrina whatever". Enough!


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