LCA Tejas: News and Discussions

ramana · Post by **ramana** » 14 Apr 2015 08:27

They need to order more Mk1s to setup the supply chain and the factory process. These ideally should be upgradable to MK1A status Eg electronics and engine.

Cant sit on the orderbook.

Singha · Post by **Singha** » 14 Apr 2015 10:20

thats where a silent darkly scowling Namo sitting but saying nothing and observing everything at the table comes in.

this is known to encourage pious thoughts in the unfaithful and stiffen the spine of waverers.

DM saab can do the talking and lay out his plan.

one thing that should be stressed is using the press and leaks to settle scores and hit each other by ADA/HAL on one side and IAF on other side will no longer be tolerated. khan does not tolerate this and neither should we.

nash · Post by **nash** » 14 Apr 2015 12:12

Few months back there were talks of spending 12 billion $ to set up a separate facility to manufacture LCA and it involve only private sector.
Basically, forming a consortium of private companies to manufacture the LCA but lack of experience of private sector is major road block in this scenario.

http://archive.defensenews.com/article/ ... k-Monopoly

So, what if now government comes up with the same plan including HAL, since no more Rafale yet to them to manufacture, with the advance order of not only MkII but also MkI.

It can be a very promising possibility.

deejay · Post by **deejay** » 14 Apr 2015 12:30

srai wrote:
Cain Marko wrote:
My guess is they will all come out at FOC standard....IFR, new radome, BVR integrated. at least I hope this is the case.
The IAF prefers to get all of them in FOC standard. Most nations with a history of aircraft development would have started induction of the LCA at IOC-1 in 2010 itself. But this is an uncharted territory for the IAF. They are far from being a "builders" air force.

srai ji, you have some link or source for this because IAF has already agreed to accept the first 20 in IOC 2 standards. In my view the SP 2 delay is pretty much HAL's issue. I am sure these are teething issues in setting up an assembly line. However, would expect HAL to stop giving timelines and fail to live up to it.

DexterM · Post by **DexterM** » 14 Apr 2015 15:07

nash wrote:Few months back there were talks of spending 12 billion $ to set up a separate facility to manufacture LCA and it involve only private sector.
Basically, forming a consortium of private companies to manufacture the LCA but lack of experience of private sector is major road block in this scenario.
http://archive.defensenews.com/article/ ... k-Monopoly
So, what if now government comes up with the same plan including HAL, since no more Rafale yet to them to manufacture, with the advance order of not only MkII but also MkI.
It can be a very promising possibility.

$12 BILLION? HAL spent less than a third of a billion to establish the current 8 aircraft a year production line. And guess what happened when it went back to the IAF (after the Navy had already agreed to pay 1/4th for the expansion) for another 1/4th for expanding the line?

HAL’s new assembly line has been established at a cost of Rs 1,556 crore, with HAL paying half and the remaining shared between the IAF and navy.

Honestly, if the MoD actually spent Rs 2,000 cr and hived off HAL Tejas into a separate unit with no strings with HAL itself, perhaps it might be acceptable to everyone else including the IAF (the IN seems to be accepting of the current situation in any case). Bringing IAF on board might take getting Dassault involved in rebranding the Tejas into a Bourrasque since that might appeal to the IAF.
What's $500mn when we're anyways going to be spending about 12 times that on the Rafale (as in, we might as well pay Dassault that much more and get this baby up to 32 a year).
PS: Edited add - 8 for the IAF and 4 for the IN from what I read.

Singha · Post by **Singha** » 14 Apr 2015 15:41

HAls current tejas facility can only assemble around 8 a/c in parallel various stages from the looks of it.
new sheds will need to be built first before we can think of respectable number like 16 / annum - more people, machinery etc.
http://www.bharatdefencekavach.com/bhar ... sembly.jpg

money has to be found, just like money is found for expensive imports like C17.

and another
1 billion$ should be kept aside to fund 5 more EMB145 AEW
1 billion$ to fund 5 more EMB145 GMTI platform - http://www.airforce-technology.com/proj ... tor_10.jpg (1 training, 2 for northern command, 2 for eastern command)
the astor thing only has one mission commander and 2 imint analysts onboard. they can do some analysis but mostly its all pumped to ground station and then people look at radar imagery and guide the forces.

pragnya · Post by **pragnya** » 14 Apr 2015 16:29

can somebody provide me a link stating that SP 2 will be handed over to IAF by mar 2015. i am unable to find one. only SP 1 was to be handed over by march 2015.

IIRC it was supposed to fly by march 2015 as per most links like this one.

The SP-1 was rolled out from the brand new Tejas facility of Hindustan Aeronautics Ltd (HAL) in Bengaluru. The minister said that the second aircraft (SP-2) will also be ready by March 2015 for its maiden flight and the first 20 aircraft will be built by 2017-18.

DexterM · Post by **DexterM** » 14 Apr 2015 16:52

Singha wrote:HAls current tejas facility can only assemble around 8 a/c in parallel various stages from the looks of it.
new sheds will need to be built first before we can think of respectable number like 16 / annum - more people, machinery etc.
http://www.bharatdefencekavach.com/bhar ... sembly.jpg

money has to be found, just like money is found for expensive imports like C17.

and another
1 billion$ should be kept aside to fund 5 more EMB145 AEW
1 billion$ to fund 5 more EMB145 GMTI platform - http://www.airforce-technology.com/proj ... tor_10.jpg (1 training, 2 for northern command, 2 for eastern command)
the astor thing only has one mission commander and 2 imint analysts onboard. they can do some analysis but mostly its all pumped to ground station and then people look at radar imagery and guide the forces.

There are 4 sheds, two of which are structural assembly and one final assembly. I think there might be one more for fabrication, but don't know for sure so cannot substantiate.
If they do need to expand, they have lots of land around - in fact, some of the non-HAL land was denotified and given to builders.

pankajs · Post by **pankajs** » 14 Apr 2015 17:50

✈Anantha Krishnan M✈ ‏@writetake 2h2 hours ago

#RafaleAftermath Those who ignored Tejas is now hailing it! Honey extracted at home better than one bought from market. Thank You @PMOIndia

Saurav Jha @SJha1618 · 6h 6 hours ago >>

* Comrades, there is an active lobby pushing the Gripen as a Mig-21 replacement by offering a 'Make in India' scheme. #DDBI.
* This lobby first came in wanting to improve the 'LCA' by providing aerodynamic data and other consultancy support in a hangar. #DDBI.
* Their case was that Gripen is v.similar to Tejas etc etc. Now they are even talking about 'Make in India'. # DDBI.
* The situation for the Tejas program far from being comfortable is actually Code Red. I realize this now. # DDBI.
* So worried is everybody about the need for aerodynamic refinement of the Tejas platform that it is being used by an opening by the G-lobby.
* G-lobby is proposing everything from 51 % in Mk-2, 100 % for G itself under MII. Now tell me will anybody do MII on no cost no commitment?
* The best way for Indian industry to actually upgrade itself is get its hands dirty producing homegrown systems not doing spoon fed bullshit.

Lets see.

Singha · Post by **Singha** » 14 Apr 2015 17:54

Holy shif. The arrival of the gripen in the fight has the inevitable Hindi movie ring to it...but could be true.

Hal is in sarkari mode for mk1 production and no news on even proto of mk2

Vultures already eyeing the 150 unit prize

ramana · Post by **ramana** » 14 Apr 2015 19:06

The hidden key is a/c purchases are Congress funding resources. There is no money to be made if Make in India. Hence HAL's HF-24 never got support.

To prevent political hacks from claiming kickbacks NaMo chose govt-to govt sales for the Rafales. Total 3 squadrons worth.

What these lobbyists don't realize is NaMo knows their game.
And torpedoing LCA will sink his MII program.

For a few crores a whole generation will suffer.
Watch for some of these paid journalists to get hauled for taking foreign money.

shiv · Post by **shiv** » 14 Apr 2015 19:17

Watching Parikkar's interview - he says two things

1. Tejas may well fill the replace MiG 21 role.
2. There is a chance that some other similar single engine plane could fill the role

What I understand from the Parikkar interview is that the ball is in HALs' court. They must deliver and deliver well and on time. if they don't Tejas is screwed. This may have less to do with Tejas' inability and more to do with HALs inability to deliver.

Now if HAL is disinterested because Tejas is actually ADA's baby and they can't get third party vendors or enough order, tejas can still get screwed. A lot hangs on HAL. IMO

Gripen lobby will do its utmost to kill Tejas

member_23694 · Post by **member_23694** » 14 Apr 2015 19:25

Gripen instead of Tejas is just being Alarmist.
Streamlining / Speeding up Tejas and MK.2 prg in different ways could happen but no way Gripen replacing Tejas

chaanakya · Post by **chaanakya** » 14 Apr 2015 19:38

While 126 is firmly jettisoned 36 R is dependent on favorable terms and conditions which are yet to be negotiated. Interestingly NaMo put request to Hollande in G2G business. Now if it fails what would be the political fall out which Hollande has to manage. Dassault is no where in the picture as the deal will have sovereign guarantee of French Govt. Further orders would depend on how fast they close the deal and how forthcoming they are for additional manufacture under MII. Eurofighter might have a chance , a slim one. US may not have any chance though they may like to have. US is also going in for election and uncertain political and consequently policy environment hence NaMo would not risk it.

Gripen was not qualified technically and the opening afforded to them is very very small. I don't think they would make it in replacement of LCA. Their opportunity would come only when LCA fails and then they would be again competing against others. Failure of LCA will be politically costly for NaMo and not only for his MII,

He is known to do things on upper limit ( that is why 18 became 36 in direct delivery in 24 months) and adopt multi-pronged approach. hence I feel ADA might get into Joint Venture and also become a separate entity and private players will also be roped in. Each with a guarantee of certain minimum but critical number of planes if successful.

Indranil · Post by **Indranil** » 14 Apr 2015 19:39

shiv wrote:Watching Parikkar's interview - he says two things

1. Tejas may well fill the replace MiG 21 role.
2. There is a chance that some other similar single engine plane could fill the role

What I understand from the Parikkar interview is that the ball is in HALs' court. They must deliver and deliver well and on time. if they don't Tejas is screwed. This may have less to do with Tejas' inability and more to do with HALs inability to deliver.

Now if HAL is disinterested because Tejas is actually ADA's baby and they can't get third party vendors or enough order, tejas can still get screwed. A lot hangs on HAL. IMO

Gripen lobby will do its utmost to kill Tejas

I have a strong objection to this, and I will say why. All of you should take a step back, and see what you are saying from a distance: It is Rafale's/Gripen's opportunity to win and Tejas opportunity to lose.

In this way, we will continue to import forever. If IAF gets Gripens to replace Migs, we will again have a case of ALL planes in IAF being imported (from basic trainers to transport aircraft). We have to give our industry some time to come onboard. How can they be equally well-oiled as industries in the west where entire ecosystems have been existed for 60-70 years, sometimes even a century.

If HAL is the problem, fix HAL. Or give the production of Tejas to some other entity. But, it should not be replaced by Gripen under any circumstance.

chaanakya · Post by **chaanakya** » 14 Apr 2015 19:44

Dassault failed to close the Bid in 2013 when it went into financial negotiations. They insisted for some private entity ( read MuAm) and no guarantee if HAL does it. That irked MoD no end. As time was short prior to elections, MoD babus just dragged on knowing that unless they clear it Congis would not risk a deal prior to election. That is where Dassault failed to make course correction. They could not read the situation. Now if they do Yak Yak they would end up with nothing.

Karan M · Post by **Karan M** » 14 Apr 2015 19:46

I brought up the Gripen lobby repeatedly in my posts on BR. One phamous journo was also suckered into the Gripen will not affect LCA claims and was busy making those claims. Anyone who has been following A&D in India and keeps his ears to the ground, knew this was happening. I only hope NaMo does not fall for this. TBH, Mr Parrikar seems to be suffering a lot from grandstanding-itis and one wonders about some of the stuff he says.

shiv · Post by **shiv** » 14 Apr 2015 19:49

Please note that my post above constitutes my interpretation of Parikkar's words - he did not say anything about "HAL must deliver or else bla bla" - that was my "reading between lines"

But now HAL must bloody well deliver.

hnair · Post by **hnair** » 14 Apr 2015 20:01

I kind of take it as "if HAL fails, there will be consequences for HAL", not necessarily "Tejas will be allowed to fizzle". There are enough private entities slowly taking shape, to execute that threat.

ritesh · Post by **ritesh** » 14 Apr 2015 20:12

indranilroy wrote:
shiv wrote:Watching Parikkar's interview - he says two things

1. Tejas may well fill the replace MiG 21 role.
2. There is a chance that some other similar single engine plane could fill the role

What I understand from the Parikkar interview is that the ball is in HALs' court. They must deliver and deliver well and on time. if they don't Tejas is screwed. This may have less to do with Tejas' inability and more to do with HALs inability to deliver.

Now if HAL is disinterested because Tejas is actually ADA's baby and they can't get third party vendors or enough order, tejas can still get screwed. A lot hangs on HAL. IMO

Gripen lobby will do its utmost to kill Tejas
I have a strong objection to this, and I will say why. All of you should take a step back, and see what you are saying from a distance: It is Rafale's/Gripen's opportunity to win and Tejas opportunity to lose.

In this way, we will continue to import forever. If IAF gets Gripens to replace Migs, we will again have a case of ALL planes in IAF being imported (from basic trainers to transport aircraft). We have to give our industry some time to come onboard. How can they be equally well-oiled as industries in the west where entire ecosystems have been existed for 60-70 years, sometimes even a century.

If HAL is the problem, fix HAL. Or give the production of Tejas to some other entity. But, it should not be replaced by Gripen under any circumstance.

absolutely true...

Sid · Post by **Sid** » 14 Apr 2015 20:22

If LCA dies now, it will doom the indigenous aerospace industry in India. Just like it died in British and Canadian.

But Pariker mentioned "assured orders" as a lollipop to bring investment from global and private firms in Indian MIC. Is MOD willing to provide "assured orders" on LCA so that HAL can increase their production rate, their long time request?

Karan M · Post by **Karan M** » 14 Apr 2015 20:28

hnair wrote:I kind of take it as "if HAL fails, there will be consequences for HAL", not necessarily "Tejas will be allowed to fizzle". There are enough private entities slowly taking shape, to execute that threat.

Hope you are right!!

pankajs · Post by **pankajs** » 14 Apr 2015 20:31

For that kind of assurance from private sector they will have to be involved now either given a split order or in a JV with HAL.

Ashok Sarraff · Post by **Ashok Sarraff** » 14 Apr 2015 20:49

I just watched Parrikar's IBN7/DD interview. He is clear that Rafale is not a replacement for MIG 21 (as we all know). But he also said that Tejas IS a replacement for MiG 21 OR another single-engine aircraft can be a replacement for MiG 21. So my reading is that MiG 21s will be replaced by another single-engine aircraft, but its not 100% guaranteed that they will all be replaced by Tejas.

It was not clear under what situation will they consider options beyond Tejas for replacing MiG 21.

chaanakya · Post by **chaanakya** » 14 Apr 2015 21:10

Sid wrote:If LCA dies now, it will doom the indigenous aerospace industry in India. Just like it died in British and Canadian.

But Pariker mentioned "assured orders" as a lollipop to bring investment from global and private firms in Indian MIC. Is MOD willing to provide "assured orders" on LCA so that HAL can increase their production rate, their long time request?

Who is MoD in Strategic purchases. Rafale order is meant to show MoD its true place. They have to work out everything backward from NaMo fixing the order size and asking everyone else to deliver and find a solution for that.

NRao · Post by **NRao** » 14 Apr 2015 21:27

I just watched Parrikar's IBN7/DD interview. He is clear that Rafale is not a replacement for MIG 21 (as we all know). But he also said that Tejas IS a replacement for MiG 21 OR another single-engine aircraft can be a replacement for MiG 21. So my reading is that MiG 21s will be replaced by another single-engine aircraft, but its not 100% guaranteed that they will all be replaced by Tejas.

The MMRCA has morphed.

It still exists ...................................... in a diff form, that is all.

DexterM · Post by **DexterM** » 14 Apr 2015 22:05

imo, the fundamental flaw in the approach of Parrikar and Modi - they're focused on IAF requirements as projected by the brass, and then on their budgets, and then on the possibilities of job creation. The factor of value creation in terms or generating retainable IP and improving our defence production.

Which of these private organizations is really ready to take it on now? Hive off the Tejas division, transfer the assets inc. the employees, and make it work. Else, we are approaching the worst situation - any equipment with fixed wings is imported. We don't want an Imported Air Force, as I'm sure most of the diligent afsars and babus already know.

RoyG · Post by **RoyG** » 14 Apr 2015 22:24

Gripen won't be replacing Tejas. Rafale may be ordered in batches. One thing is for sure. Tejas numbers will go up and the private sector is going to be taking a bigger role. I just don't see HAL continuing to run the show forever.

DexterM · Post by **DexterM** » 14 Apr 2015 23:11

If any private involvement is due on the Tejas, it should have begun ten years ago to make sense, and not delay the schedules further.
As of now, no matter what anyone says, it clearly looks like the Tejas is on the Marut path.

If the user refuses to accept the aircraft, are the BJP functionaries going to fly them? You CANNOT shove them down anyone's throats, far from the IAF. Now, what they can do is have the trainer versions out earlier and try to ramp up the number of available pilots. The more the number of trainees who graduate out of this type's ranks, the more converts we will have for this khadi-gramudyog-vimaan business.

RoyG · Post by **RoyG** » 14 Apr 2015 23:38

How is the Tejas on the Marut path? Where have Parrikar and Modi indicated that this is the case?

The point is, the earlier you bite the bullet and support homegrown products and industry, the better it is. I think they realize this and are working towards it.

We're going to have to wait until there is a concrete statement on numbers.

Cain Marko · Post by **Cain Marko** » 15 Apr 2015 03:25

Battle of the lightweights: Gripen vs LCA. We analyze MP's statements and Saab's covert + overt moves along with SJha's comments above.

In Gripen's Corner:
HAL - when have they EVER wanted to produce the LCA? they even put the IJT higher up in their priorities at the expense of the Tejas. They seem to like screwdrivergiri.
SAAB
IAF? Possibly but not necessarily. They do like their imported toys.

In LCA's Corner:
GOI - Modi and Parrikar
ADA - need to get things integrated and do some show and tell
IAF? - Possibly but not necessarily. They have over the past 5-10 years invested quite a bit in the Tejas.

My bet is on the LCA to come through. Simply don't have time to screw around with the Gripen at this stage. HAL already has some experience here. Services, especially the IN and even the AF have been waiting and investing in the Tejas - ACM Raha's recent statements are clear - they are getting behind the LCA - but the temptation of the blonde from Sweden is always a distraction. The main force behind the LCA of course is Modi and MP - these guys will push the PSUs hard, but will back the LCA - very decisively. All in all, we await FOC, and I am hoping the ADA folks surprise everyone and bring it out earlier than expected.

Singha · Post by **Singha** » 15 Apr 2015 06:27

The gripen failed certain tests in leh that Tejas passed. This can be used as a stick to beat it with.
Even super hornet failed a few test in leh

Thakur_B · Post by **Thakur_B** » 15 Apr 2015 06:32

Cain Marko wrote: HAL - when have they EVER wanted to produce the LCA? they even put the IJT higher up in their priorities at the expense of the Tejas. They seem to like screwdrivergiri.

Huh?

shiv · Post by **shiv** » 15 Apr 2015 07:10

hnair wrote:I kind of take it as "if HAL fails, there will be consequences for HAL", not necessarily "Tejas will be allowed to fizzle". There are enough private entities slowly taking shape, to execute that threat.

No disrespect meant to any PSU, but the saying is "Don't fight with pigs because they will pull you down to their level, fight dirty and win on experience"

What I mean is NO private player will ever catch up with HAL in existing combat or noncombat aircraft that HAL already makes. LCA is doomed to remain HAL's and HAL's baby alone. HAL managers are sitting on a financial navratna on gormint(ed) money. They do not want to make ashta-ratna. HAL has its hands totally full and coffers overflowing with Su-30, Jaguar, Hawk, ALH, LCH, LCA, LUH, etc. HAL is heavy with light this and light that.

Private players need to break new ground in jumping into civil/transport aircraft or components for a totally new type (eg Rafale wings by Ambani); Sikorsky Cabin by Tata, Aircraft by Mahindra and that Hosur company.

Sorry to go OT

Kartik · Post by **Kartik** » 15 Apr 2015 08:40

shiv wrote:Watching Parikkar's interview - he says two things

1. Tejas may well fill the replace MiG 21 role.
2. There is a chance that some other similar single engine plane could fill the role

What I understand from the Parikkar interview is that the ball is in HALs' court. They must deliver and deliver well and on time. if they don't Tejas is screwed. This may have less to do with Tejas' inability and more to do with HALs inability to deliver.

Now if HAL is disinterested because Tejas is actually ADA's baby and they can't get third party vendors or enough order, tejas can still get screwed. A lot hangs on HAL. IMO

Gripen lobby will do its utmost to kill Tejas

well, HAL has had it cozy for a long time now and it is high time that some fear and urgency got into their laid back style of functioning. The new PM/DM combo is not one to accept delays after delays without any consequences and the PSU culture needs a kick in the backside. HAL had better step up and deliver, that's the basic underlying message that Parrikar has sent to them. They may not look to abandon the Tejas after it has gotten so far, but HAL bosses will have to be held accountable for delays and inaction on their part. I personally see nothing wrong in that.

DexterM · Post by **DexterM** » 15 Apr 2015 08:44

CM, you're right about everything except Parrikar and Modi being in the LCA corner. They're not.
By stating in very clear terms that the Mig replacement will be Tejas or a similar aircraft (where until now, there was not a single mention even by the Congies who would've milked a bull for its money), Parrikar has opened the gates for the Gripen. I'm sorry but HAL loses nothing - they will be compensated elsewhere. All this talk of no new planes for 17 years by Parrikar is absolute BS - are we not getting new build Sukhois every year? WTF then was that all about? In reality, they're guided not by their own knowledge (being self-professed afficianados, they defer to IAF afsars and not HAL babus), but by whatever force requirements are being projected. HAL will not change - you can change the management, but what will you do about the unions? Nothing!

In a previous post, I said IP generation is not their concern at all! And that line is being reflected across all the farticles being floated now. If they haven't even spelt out the possibility of an SPV (although they might have considered it), then we might not see too many Tejas in service.

I might be wrong, but it is worth saying out loud right now: We're witnessing not an ultimatum to HAL or ADA, but a trial balloon for the Swedes to offer off the shelf Gripens (even though the NG will be ready for production only in 2018 if at all?). Everything else that we're repeating on this thread is the usual hopeful jingo bingo.

Tejas to gayo.

Yagnasri · Post by **Yagnasri** » 15 Apr 2015 08:53

We may be looking too much into one sentence from MP. HAL can be be faulted if the orders are for 40 units and production rate is 8. True they and ADA will be under serious presure to deliver just like everyone else since NM came to power. But I do not see NM or MP ditching the national efforts unless they are totally mislead by Babus and others.

kmkraoind · Post by **kmkraoind** » 15 Apr 2015 08:55

LCA is ADA product, right now HAL is a manufacturer of LCA-1. Right now private industry is not a big player in Aerospace industry, but given a chance they will prove their mettle. The biggest advantage of private industry is, they can hire best top engineers across globe and can retain it. They can pay top rupees to top performers and meager salary for low level peons.

Let a private group partner with SAAB or Dassult and take up LCA-2 production, let that foreign vendor provide initial tooling and assembling line. Even better if 3 players (ADA, private player and their foreign partner) sit and redesign LCA-2 to the satisfaction of IAF.

- On Govt/IAF part, they will issue assure a healthy number of orders once it meats its GSQR.
- They will declare this new assembly plant as strategic sector, so that getting land and other permissions will be easier.

Somewhere, we have to try private sector. Prior to Reliance entering peto sector, they might have laughed at it, now see where Reliance and their refineries stand. Once we start encouraging private sector, knowledge and experience proliferation will be quick and within a decade or two we will attain critical expertise mass in MIC.

Are TATA built Sikorsky cabins in anyway inferior to HAL built LCH cabins?, so give private industry a chance, start is somewhere and on larger scale.

DexterM · Post by **DexterM** » 15 Apr 2015 09:03

kmkraoind, you think the IAF will wait ten years for this new design to fructify if they're not willing to wait three years currently?

kmkraoind · Post by **kmkraoind** » 15 Apr 2015 09:09

DexterM wrote:kmkraoind, you think the IAF will wait ten years for this new design to fructify if they're not willing to wait three years currently?

No need to major redesign of LCA-1. As Nileshji had said, increasing length or adding a plug-in will decrease wing ratio as well as drag. It will also increase internal fuel. Already LCA-1 has FCS, then re-tweaking that FCA for LCA-2 does not take much time.

Anyhow, tell private companies, that we want LCA-2 to be rolled out from 2019-2020 period (that is there LCA-1 production ends), let them wriggle out techno/production issues.

Bill Gates — 'I choose a lazy person to do a hard job. Because a lazy person will find an easy way to do it.'

Mallikarjuna in Indian context - 'I choose a private company to do a hard job. Because a private company will find an easy way to do it, because their growth and survival depends on success.'