West Asia News and Discussions (YEMEN, gulf)

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ramana
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Re: West Asia News and Discussions

Post by ramana »

A_Gupta wrote:Anyone - what are the differences between Dawoodi, Sulaimani, and Nizari Ismailis?
The Ismailis in Yemen are mostly members of the Dawoodi (Davidian) and Sulaimani (Solomonian) sects of Mustali Ismailism that moved away from the larger Nizari Ismailis.
(from http://www.globalresearch.ca/the-geopol ... en/5439749 )
This is a question for the 'Understanding Islamic Society' thread.
Having said that Nizaris allow their Imam, the Agha Khan, to reformulate the doctrine to suit the current times.
Wiki has lots of material on them.
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Re: West Asia News and Discussions

Post by A_Gupta »

IMO the US (and friends) in the government/military/media/academic world have no comprehension that IS is an alternative civilization seeking to emerge. Because of that willful ignorance they are headed for a massive shock.
from: http://turcopolier.typepad.com/sic_semp ... -2015.html
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Re: West Asia News and Discussions

Post by UlanBatori »

So IS is like the Russian and Chinese Revolutions? Or like Ebola+AIDS?
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Re: West Asia News and Discussions

Post by vijaykarthik »

Singha wrote:yes a official demarche must be given to the saudi ambassador that employers must hand back passports to all indians.

infact india should ban workers going to countries where employers seize their passports. qatar is another one.
I think the system is called Kafala. I think even Kuwait, Bahrain and UAE follow it but somehow I have heard of it being abused in KSA and Qatar only.
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Re: West Asia News and Discussions

Post by panduranghari »

UlanBatori wrote:So IS is like the Russian and Chinese Revolutions? Or like Ebola+AIDS?
IS is more like American revolution.
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Re: West Asia News and Discussions

Post by vijaykarthik »

A_Gupta wrote:Anyone - what are the differences between Dawoodi, Sulaimani, and Nizari Ismailis?
The Ismailis in Yemen are mostly members of the Dawoodi (Davidian) and Sulaimani (Solomonian) sects of Mustali Ismailism that moved away from the larger Nizari Ismailis.
(from http://www.globalresearch.ca/the-geopol ... en/5439749 )
Shia Seveners

As someone else mentioned, its predom based on which Imam to believe in and takes the belief system from there.

this might help too: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Isma%27ilism
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Re: West Asia News and Discussions

Post by vijaykarthik »

From Foreign Policy:

"The general in charge of U.S. special operations forces in Iraq for the past six months says Washington's information campaign in the Middle East is so inadequate that many Iraqi troops believe American forces are secretly supplying the Islamic State — potentially leaving U.S. forces vulnerable to reprisal attacks from their nominal allies in the fight against the militants."

Wow. So do they support or they dont?
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Re: West Asia News and Discussions

Post by pankajs »

RT ‏@RT_com 1h1 hour ago

BREAKING: Casualties reported in suicide bomber attack on mosque in Saudi Arabia http://on.rt.com/8ehtix
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Re: West Asia News and Discussions

Post by kmkraoind »

This time 72-houri wanting Jumma warriors have hit Saudi Arabia's Shias mosque. These tweets hav some photographic images.1 2.

Buckle up gurus, this is the just beginning. I think, all of Arabian princes (UAE, Qatar) must have moved their stashes to abroad.
terrormonitor.org ‏@Terror_Monitor

#Saudi Arabia - 3rd #UPDATE - Suicide Bombing In #Shia Mosque At #Qatif , Death Toll >14, 50 Wounded
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Re: West Asia News and Discussions

Post by UlanBatori »

I am amazed to hear that there ARE still Shia mosques left inside KSA to be vacuum-imploded. Shows how much we know out in Ulan Bator. Don't they behead all such blasphemers? What next? Are there Synagogues? Churches? Pagodas? They sure don't allow Mandirs/ Kshetrams, hain? How do these Shia folks survive there?
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Re: West Asia News and Discussions

Post by prahaar »

vijaykarthik wrote:
Singha wrote:yes a official demarche must be given to the saudi ambassador that employers must hand back passports to all indians.

infact india should ban workers going to countries where employers seize their passports. qatar is another one.
I think the system is called Kafala. I think even Kuwait, Bahrain and UAE follow it but somehow I have heard of it being abused in KSA and Qatar only.
This "passport with employer" system is used and abused in most gulf states without any protests from India. This is based on accounts from KSA, UAE, Oman, Kuwait.
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Re: West Asia News and Discussions

Post by RoyG »

pankajs wrote:RT ‏@RT_com 1h1 hour ago

BREAKING: Casualties reported in suicide bomber attack on mosque in Saudi Arabia http://on.rt.com/8ehtix
Ramana and I had discussed this. ISIS will knocking down the door on all these gulf royals. The monarchy isn't as strong as it once was in KSA. This is the chance for other tribes to rise to the top.
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Re: West Asia News and Discussions

Post by SSridhar »

Suicide bomber targets Shia mosque in eastern Saudi - ToI
A blast ripped through a Shia mosque in eastern Saudi Arabia on Friday, authorities said, in what an activist said was a deadly suicide bombing.

The kingdom's Eastern Province has been hit by previous attempts by Sunni extremists to foment sectarian tensions with its large Shia community, including a deadly shooting in November.

The interior ministry said a large explosion hit the mosque in Kudeih in Shia-majority Qatif district during the main weekly prayers.

An activist said at least four worshippers were killed and others wounded, and news websites in eastern Saudi Arabia posted photographs of bodies lying in pools of blood.

Qatif hospital issued an urgent call for blood donations after the attack and called in off-duty staff to cope with the high number of casualties, the activist said.

An interior ministry spokesman said an investigation has been opened and more details of the explosion would follow.

Saudi police have made a string of arrests in recent months of Sunni extremists suspected of plotting attacks aimed at stirring sectarian unrest in confessionally divided Eastern Province.

Most of Saudi Arabia's minority Shias live in the east, where they have long complained of marginalization in the Sunni-dominated kingdom.

Last November, gunmen killed seven Shias, including children, in the eastern town of Al-Dalwa during the commemoration of Ashura, one of the holiest occasions of their faith.

Four men carried out the attack after killing a man from a neighbouring village and stealing his car to use in the shootings, the interior ministry said.

Last month, the interior ministry said it had dismantled a 65-strong cell with suspected links to the Islamic State jihadist group in Iraq and Syria that was implicated in a plot to "incite sectarian sedition" through similar attacks.

Since 2011, protests and sporadic attacks on security forces have occurred in Shia areas, leaving about 20 Shia youths dead.
So, the suicide-bombing of Shia mosques, which is a pastime in Pakistan has spread from the Chela to the Guru. Welcome to the club, Saudi. What you encouraged in Pakistan & Iraq has come back to hit you.
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Re: West Asia News and Discussions

Post by vijaykarthik »

^ wasn't there a bomb blast in E KSA [that was a Shia mosque too!] a few months back too? I don't remember if it was in the vicinity of a Shia mosque / a Shia area with a prominent mosque or it was inside the mosque complex.

Looks like this is the 2nd incident. Likely Houthi backed?
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Re: West Asia News and Discussions

Post by RamaY »

vijaykarthik wrote:^ wasn't there a bomb blast in E KSA [that was a Shia mosque too!] a few months back too? I don't remember if it was in the vicinity of a Shia mosque / a Shia area with a prominent mosque or it was inside the mosque complex.

Looks like this is the 2nd incident. Likely Houthi backed?
It was a shooting: http://www.euronews.com/2014/11/04/at-l ... -shooting/
At least five people have been killed and many more wounded after masked gunmen opened fire on a Shi’ite mosque in Saudi Arabia.

The shooting took place as worshippers were marking one of their most important religious anniversaries, Ashoura, to commemorate the death of the grandson of the Prophet Muhammad.
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Re: West Asia News and Discussions

Post by deejay »

Vijay saar, Houthis, I believe are Zaidi Shias. Don't see how they will target the mosque or did you mean that the Shia Mosque was Houthi affiliated?
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Re: West Asia News and Discussions

Post by Prem »

panduranghari wrote:
UlanBatori wrote:So IS is like the Russian and Chinese Revolutions? Or like Ebola+AIDS?
IS is more like American revolution.
Sunni and Shia both injected with religious Ebola,Aid and Dementia. Each and every one out to get each and every one.Aik Se Barr Kar Aik, Pagal Suicidal Hai Inmey Anek.
IMHO, Its time for India to play M card we hold on both S & S side and widen the wound on their B..nd.
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Re: West Asia News and Discussions

Post by SSridhar »

21 Killed in Saudi blast - The Hindu
A suicide bomber killed 21 worshippers during Friday prayers in a Shia mosque in a village in eastern Saudi Arabia, witnesses said. The IS claimed responsibility.
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Re: West Asia News and Discussions

Post by chanakyaa »

Why does IDF need 3000 bunker busters??
Restock IDF stores with bunker busters
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Re: West Asia News and Discussions

Post by kmkraoind »

Islamic State says it's responsible for bombing at Saudi Shiite mosque
Saudi Arabia’s Interior Ministry said the mosque attacker apparently detonated a concealed explosives belt among a crowd of worshipers in the eastern town of Qudayh, near the regional center of Qatif. Most of Saudi Arabia’s Shiite minority, many of whom consider themselves targets of discrimination, live in the east.
.........
In its claim of responsibility for the violence Friday, which was posted using accounts previously associated with the group, Islamic State identified the bomber by name and declared his target to have been a “sly gathering of infidels” and boasted that more than 200 of “the polluted” were killed. Islamic State views Shiites as heretics.
If US does not want ISIS dominating whole middle east, then they should let Iran send weapons and other help to Arab Shias.

I think if there are ISIS bombings in KSA (in their zeal to capture 2 notable mosques), I bet many of wealthy princes and sheiks prefer to move west, rather than getting tickets for 72-Houriland. They take inspiration from this quote, "A bird in the hand is worth two in the bush" and will prefer 4 earthly wives than 72 houris in jannath.
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Re: West Asia News and Discussions

Post by Pratyush »

udaym wrote:Why does IDF need 3000 bunker busters??
Restock IDF stores with bunker busters
To deal with the bunkers and tunnels built by Hizbulla.
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Re: West Asia News and Discussions

Post by vijaykarthik »

^ Also to potentially keep armaments ready in case Iran gets the n deal done. Its widely assumed that most of their nuclear facilities are underground. But its also widely believed that they are sufficiently hardened and unless US also plans to hit, there is no guarantee of success. Another section of though also believes that even with US support, it might not be a feasible operation.

So, its quizzical but it might also be to signal to Iran / IRGC / Hizbullah / PMF types to keep them guessing.
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Re: West Asia News and Discussions

Post by vijaykarthik »

deejay wrote:Vijay saar, Houthis, I believe are Zaidi Shias. Don't see how they will target the mosque or did you mean that the Shia Mosque was Houthi affiliated?
Agree partially. Even I am confused. But I find the IS responsibility a bit sceptical too. Indeed the Houthis are Zaidis Shias. However, their customs (laws particularly)make them closer to the Sunnis than the Twelvers [the predominant Iranian Shias]

But coming back to what I had mentioned, I was just wondering if it was a signal from the Houthis (to KSA) that they can create trouble in KSA eastern region. But its a fair qn whether they will attack a Shia mosque but one never knows in warring nations.
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Re: West Asia News and Discussions

Post by ramana »

vijaykarthik wrote:^ Also to potentially keep armaments ready in case Iran gets the n deal done. Its widely assumed that most of their nuclear facilities are underground. But its also widely believed that they are sufficiently hardened and unless US also plans to hit, there is no guarantee of success. Another section of though also believes that even with US support, it might not be a feasible operation.

So, its quizzical but it might also be to signal to Iran / IRGC / Hizbullah / PMF types to keep them guessing.

vijay, the deterrent for nukes is only nukes. Israel already has nukes. So bunker busters wont deter Iran if it comes to that.
Proximate threat is Hezbollah.
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Re: West Asia News and Discussions

Post by RamaY »

Rji,

Hypothetical question. What would be Pakistan's response if a missile takes out Dawood's hideout (irrespective of he is there or not)?
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Re: West Asia News and Discussions

Post by RoyG »

When they start using ISIS type of groups to battle the Shia storm gobbling their southern flank, the balkanization of KSA will accelerate. These guys are truly Paki.
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Re: West Asia News and Discussions

Post by chanakyaa »

Is ZeroHedge reporting or propa-gandooing??

Check out two articles on Zerohedge at "05/23/2015 - 20:06" and "05/23/2015 - 13:45"

Image
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Re: West Asia News and Discussions

Post by vijaykarthik »

^ Its partially true but they are also making a mistake of conflating presence of Sunni muslim regions as IS sympathetic.

While its true that IS does have designs and one of the earliest maps showed their interest in India / Indonesia too [but I remember the maps also covering a bit of Australia and Europe?], I cant remember a time when a group in India or Kashmir for that matter actually went ahead and conveyed their allegiance to the IS.

But that's the beauty (or disappointment, as one sees it) about the IS group- they can motivate lone wolf attacks on the state infrastructure / apparatus and call them ("take responsibility") the IS because it gives them (IS) a moral victory. This easily looks like the franchisee / MLM equivalent model of terrorism.
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Re: West Asia News and Discussions

Post by vijaykarthik »

The latest. Sounds ominous for Syria. Iran / Russia will act? from ZH/medium, guardian

secret-pentagon-report-reveals-west-saw-isis-as-strategic-asset

syria-iran-isis-battle-arab-world
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Re: West Asia News and Discussions

Post by vijaykarthik »

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Re: West Asia News and Discussions

Post by devesh »

So looks like things are progressing as predicted. Some on BRF have been warning for a while that Iran-Afghanistan-Paki trilateral alliance is very much possible are being proven right. Regardless of their Sunni/Shia fight, Iran will collaborate with Sunni Jihadis. People who said this were mocked that they should "wake up" and develop more "geopolitical nuance". What we are seeing is the "coming together" of all the Islamics in the neighborhood. In this context, I've been saying that America being hostile to Iran is a good thing. Their sanctions & undermining of Iranian regime actually gives us more leverage over them. Today, Iran is far more emboldened to pitch for regional hegemony. My bet is that they view India as a competitor. It is only foolish, delusional Indians who were celebrating that Iran "reached a deal" with US. If we had any sense, we wouldn't be. Iran reaching a detente with US only gives them more room to fiddle in Afghanistan in a grand Ummah alliance. But then again, even after this I'm sure I'll continue to see people on this forum singing joyously about "economic opportunities" & "chabahar".
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Re: West Asia News and Discussions

Post by A_Gupta »

http://www.theguardian.com/world/2015/m ... arthquakes
"Qatar refuses to let Nepalese workers return to attend funerals after quake".
Nepalese workers building stadiums for the 2022 World Cup in Qatar have been denied leave to attend funerals or visit relatives following the earthquakes in the Himalayan country that have killed more than 8,000 people, its government has revealed.

The government in Kathmandu has also for the first time publicly criticised Fifa, world football’s governing body, and its commercial partners. It insists that they must put more pressure on Qatar to improve conditions for the 1.5 million migrants employed in the Gulf state as part of the World Cup construction boom.

About 400,000 of the workers on the project are from Nepal, with the rest mainly from India, Pakistan, Bangladesh and Sri Lanka.
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Re: West Asia News and Discussions

Post by Rony »

devesh wrote: Today, Iran is far more emboldened to pitch for regional hegemony. My bet is that they view India as a competitor. It is only foolish, delusional Indians who were celebrating that Iran "reached a deal" with US. If we had any sense, we wouldn't be. Iran reaching a detente with US only gives them more room to fiddle in Afghanistan in a grand Ummah alliance. But then again, even after this I'm sure I'll continue to see people on this forum singing joyously about "economic opportunities" & "chabahar".
It already started. See here

viewtopic.php?f=1&t=3693&start=2480#p1845139


P.S. I never understood some Indians naive fascination with "India-Iran civilizational ties". They don't even realize that those "civilizational ties" arose when Indic and Iranic peoples were fighting each other because Iranic people were always attacking Indic people. Historically, Indic and Iranic people were competitors.

Deva (Indo-Aryans) vs Asura/Ahura (Irano-Aryans)
Mughals (Indo-Turkish) vs Safavids (Irano-Turkish)
Secular Shahs Iran vs Secular Indira's India (1960s-70s)
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Re: West Asia News and Discussions

Post by RoyG »

Singhaji and I have been talking about this for some time. We have a big shia population and we will be competing with them in Balochistan in the near future. They're very educated as well so they will be a tougher state to deal with.
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Re: West Asia News and Discussions

Post by chanakyaa »

You know what would be worthwhile for Guardian (in collaboration with other ukastani tabloids) to do is to stop using decade old file photos to brainwash the readers and instead show real sneaky videos of these people meeting. Of course, such meetings are not going to be all out in open, but c'mon if ukstani media can get video of Diana's tits or Charles undies from miles away, can they not provide some evidence of reports/pictures/videos of all the claims they are making in the above article?
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Re: West Asia News and Discussions

Post by Philip »

No will’ to fight ISIS? US Defense Sec blasts Iraqi troops

Clearly forgetting the glorious US exit from Saigon,from the rooftop of the US embassy!....and the inglorious "beating the retreat" from Iraq,Afghanistan and unwillingness to bomb the Assad regime in Syria!
The US has forgotten to practice what it preaches.

http://rt.com/usa/261681-carter-iraq-fight-isis-ramadi/
Published time: May 25, 2015
US Defense Secretary Ash Carter has lashed out at the Iraqi army, which last week abandoned the major central city of Ramadi, as well as millions of dollars’ worth of equipment, to the Islamic State, despite reportedly outnumbering the jihadists 10-to-1.

“What apparently happened was that the Iraqi forces just showed no will to fight. They were not outnumbered. In fact, they vastly outnumbered the opposing force, and yet they failed to fight, they withdrew from the site,”
Carter, who was appointed earlier this year, told CNN in scathing commentary.

READ MORE: ISIS kills 400, mostly women & children, in Palmyra – Syrian state TV

“We can give them training, we can give them equipment – we obviously can’t give them the will to fight,” Carter said, adding that he still hopes that US training and support will bear some fruit over time, as “only if they fight” can Islamic State (IS, also known as ISIS/ISIL) be defeated.

However, Hakim Al-Zamili, the head of Iraq’s parliamentary defense and security committee, dismissed Carter’s claims as “unrealistic and baseless.”

“The US failed to provide good equipment, weapons and aerial support,” Al-Zamili told AP. “The US is trying to deflect the blame.”

ISIS claims full control of Ramadi after Iraqi troops abandon positions (VIDEO)

Details from last Sunday’s withdrawal have trickled out during the past week, with Pentagon officials admitting that when the Iraqi army fled, they left behind half a dozen US-made tanks, the same number of artillery pieces, even more armored carriers, and over 100 wheeled vehicles, mostly Humvees.

With unnamed US sources telling the media that the government troops enjoyed a superiority of 10-to-1 over the Islamists, various narratives have been brewing about the causes of the defeat.

An initial slate of media reports blamed a sandstorm, which purportedly prevented the US from providing air support, and forced the Iraqis to re-locate to a safer position. However, logs showed that American planes, which have carried out close to 200 air strikes against IS in Iraq in the past month, continued to bomb enemy positions throughout last weekend’s battle, and the Pentagon denies that it was impeded by the weather.

More alarming analyses emerged later, suggesting that deep-lying sectarian divides could be behind the lack of desire to fight.

Moscow ready to supply weapons to Iraq to help fight ISIS

“The Iraqi army is dominated by Shia, and they were fighting in a Sunni area – and they don’t want to get killed fighting to defend Sunnis,” Ivan Eland, a military analyst, told RT. Notably, Sunni tribesmen, on whom the US is increasingly relying to fend off IS, are also said to have refused to take up positions next to Shia fighters.

Despite US officials insisting that IS militants in Iraq are strategically in retreat, and emphasizing that the forces near Ramadi had never been directly trained by US instructors, Eland believes that little faith should be placed in pro-government forces.

“The root of the problem goes back to the US invasion, which dismembered the Iraqi army, which has never been the same since. Despite 8 years of US training, there is a lot of sectarianism and corruption.”


Meanwhile, other options remain off the table for US President Barack Obama, much to the chagrin of hawks, including current chairman of the Senate Armed Services Committee John McCain, who have criticized the White House for its “constrained” intervention policy.

‘Surge’ architects want US ground troops in Iraq to wash out ISIS

McCain has recently mocked Obama for “saying that the biggest problem we have is climate change,” while there is “no strategy” in Washington to fight IS. The Republican Senator has even called for American boots to hit Iraqi ground while speaking on Memorial Day.

According to Eland, choices in Iraq are now “poor.”

“You need ground forces, and you need military advisers on the ground to launch the airstrikes. But the US doesn’t want to get involved. Meanwhile, bombing without forces on the ground is not that effective, and can even be counter-productive,” Eland stressed. He also argued that given the current state of affairs in the region, even professional Iraqi troops could end up engaging in sectarian warfare when they were not fighting IS.

Yet even in the face of what US officials have conceded is an “undeniable setback,” Carter tried to strike a positive note.

“We can’t make this [victory over IS] happen by ourselves, but we can assist it to happen, and we are counting on the Iraqi people to come behind a multi-sectarian government in Baghdad.”
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Re: West Asia News and Discussions

Post by ramana »

Philip, will taleban be emboldened to take on Afghan Army which is also trained by US forces? think about it.
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Re: West Asia News and Discussions

Post by RoyG »

ramana wrote:Philip, will taleban be emboldened to take on Afghan Army which is also trained by US forces? think about it.
ISAF, Afghan Army, and all the other potato heads are already feeling the heat. 26 security personnel were dispatched to allah recently.
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Re: West Asia News and Discussions

Post by RamaY »

ramana wrote:Philip, will taleban be emboldened to take on Afghan Army which is also trained by US forces? think about it.
Rji...

Did you read this? If ISIS and Taliban are opposing camps you can guess why Ashrafi want to work with Pakis...

Taliban-ISIS clashes leave 27 dead in Afghanistan
KABUL: Ongoing clashes between Taliban and Islamic State jihadists in western Afghanistan have left at least 27 insurgents dead and 20 other people injured, officials told Efe news agency on Monday.

Afghan military spokesman Mohamad Hanif Rezaey specified that 15 ISIS jihadists and 12 from the Taliban were killed in fighting on Sunday afternoon in three areas within Farah province's Khak-e-Safid district.

Among the injured were 13 ISIS members and seven from Taliban ranks.

"Taliban fighters captured alive 12 alleged ISIS members, including four women of foreign nationalities, however, their nationalities are still uncertain," the spokesperson explained, adding that Afghan security forces would not intervene unless civilians become involved.
Locked