Indian Navy News & Discussion - 22 April 2015

Viv S · Post by **Viv S** » 04 Jun 2015 06:04

brar_w wrote:Simple answer is for "strategic reasons". The same reason why Japan and Australia want to strengthen ties with the Indian Military. The Indo-Pacific is responsible for nearly 2/3 of the global trade, and its a region where China and its Navy is increasing in influence, a military that does not have the best relationships with its neighbors and the other aspiring players in the region such as India. Under these circumstances one way to offset that changing balance is to back other powers in the regions specially those that are stable democracies that you have a good economic and now political relationship with.

Long term G2G deals, such as a decade long strategic partnership takes place when there is alignment of interests between two nations that then use those common interests to their mutual benefit. The US is a Pacific Nation, heavily invested in the region with nearly 1000 aircraft and soon a majority of its Navy. Nations like the US, Japan and India find it in their mutual interest to collaborate in their mutual interests in order to prevent the Chinese from eroding their influence in the all important region.

Strategic reasons are also what drive the Russians for example to offer S400 Air defenses to the Chinese, or the Su-35, knowing full well that they are ruthless copycats and will have clones sooner rather than later. In that relationship the Russians see China as a secure customer for its energy and a strategic partner against the US influence in the region.

Well put. 15 years ago this degree of cooperation would have been unthinkable. In another 10 years, no one's going to bat an eyelid at a similar arrangement.

Bade · Post by **Bade** » 04 Jun 2015 06:21

Yes, China is a threat and an immediate one in SCS for the nations in the Pacific rim. Our greatest threat from China is a possible PoK takeover if not already, which permanently seals J&K's divided fate with the corridor to Gwadar. The second is the Arunachal claims that China makes whenever it feels like. Aksai chin is the last issue that needs to be addressed. These three make up our immediate threat perception areas.

How does playing with others beyond making the right noises help us in addressing our immediate concerns ? Did not Malaysia/Indonesia send its ministers recently to PoK to explore tourism potential. So do we have common concerns to go all the way. Yes, we should be making right statements about access to SCS and send our subs on patrols to keep the shipping lanes free. More than that will take a lot more than a decade to happen. Trade with SE Asia has to reach higher levels first perhaps.

In the meantime, let us do chai-biscoot with them on technology adaptations for the Vishal. There is the nuclear power plant to develop and maybe they can spare us the HEU stockpiles too in good faith along with rest of the package.

Singha · Post by **Singha** » 04 Jun 2015 06:56

we should dig up some old documents from zorawar singh's time and lay claim to parts of tibet south of demchok, the salient between sikkim and bhutan , some areas south of lhasa and start publishing them in some official and tourist maps in a blow hot and cold manner.

we need to stop playing a defensive game and launch such cartographic offensives in exchange for their claims in ladakh and tawang

Viv S · Post by **Viv S** » 04 Jun 2015 07:26

Bade wrote:Yes, China is a threat and an immediate one in SCS for the nations in the Pacific rim. Our greatest threat from China is a possible PoK takeover if not already, which permanently seals J&K's divided fate with the corridor to Gwadar. The second is the Arunachal claims that China makes whenever it feels like. Aksai chin is the last issue that needs to be addressed. These three make up our immediate threat perception areas.

On the contrary, over the short term the threat from China is limited. Its ability to fight short sharp high intensity war is still.. a work in progress. And while its growing fast, economically it still has some way to go, as a result of which it'll still tend err on the side of caution & diplomacy.

However by 2025, it'll be world's largest economy (in nominal terms) and two decades of massive investment in its military will have borne fruit. As its tangible strength relative to its rivals/opponents/antagonists rises, it'll be that much more assertive and nationalistic in its strategic outlook. Which is a matter of concern for us.

For all the bravado of us pushing into the SCS with our third carrier, and establishing military bases in Vietnam, its far more likely that the Chinese will be the ones with the numbers (& political will) to push into the IOR, with permanent bases in Gwadar and elsewhere. Hell, the PLAN is receiving on average, two destroyers, three to four frigates and three to four submarines, every year. Only thing missing (for now) are carriers or that would be enough to constitute a full sized CBG. And while they may lag in terms of training, at least technologically they are, if not at par with us, pretty close to it.

How does playing with others beyond making the right noises help us in addressing our immediate concerns ? Did not Malaysia/Indonesia send its ministers recently to PoK to explore tourism potential. So do we have common concerns to go all the way. Yes, we should be making right statements about access to SCS and send our subs on patrols to keep the shipping lanes free. More than that will take a lot more than a decade to happen. Trade with SE Asia has to reach higher levels first perhaps.

The idea is to keep them off balance, the same way the Chinese have kept us off balance via Pakistan. In the event of a war with either party, India has to militarily cater for the possibility of the other one opportunistically joining it (even when unlikely). It diverts focus and limits flexibility which is good news for them.

Similarly, an Indo-China war may be an ideal time for Taiwan to vote on a new constitution, or for Vietnam to reclaim a few islands, or even for the US & SK to conclude a conflict that was paused (not ended) in 1953. Quid pro quo is that on the SE Asian front, China will be wary of India interdicting its supply lines in the IOR, or threatening PoK, or fingering it in Tiber. All unlikely possibilities but will be exacerbated if strong ties exist between its rivals. China will have to cater for them in its planning, and that will function as a deterrent to a hot conflict.

brar_w · Post by **brar_w** » 04 Jun 2015 07:34

U.S., Indian Officials Set to Discuss Aircraft Carrier Design in June

The head of the U.S. Navy’s aircraft carrier design and engineering office is set to meet his Indian counterparts later this month to discuss the design of India’s next carrier, he told USNI News last week.

Program Executive Officer for Aircraft Carriers Rear Adm. Tom Moore will lead a Navy contingent to work with the Indian navy on designing its next indigenous aircraft carrier program.

“Our two countries are working through a number of close relationships, and one of the things the Indians are interested in is learning more about aircraft carriers,” Moore told USNI News on Thursday.

“So I’m actually heading up a Navy contingent to work with the Indian navy on aircraft carrier technology to the point that we could help them with their desire to build an indigenous aircraft carrier over in the Indian navy.”

He characterized the talks as being in the formative stages, with the Indians still trying to determine what capabilities they’d want their carrier to have.

“We’ve got a series of meetings with them coming up, they are interested in obviously learning from us big picture stuff about how you start from a clean sheet of paper and what are the processes used to build a carrier,” Moore said.

“But they’re really in the process of figuring out, ‘how big do I want it to be, how many planes do I want it to carry,’ along those lines. So once we’ve had those conversations with them, we’ll certainly be happy to engage with them where it makes sense for us.”

Moore and his team will begin meeting with Indian navy officials next month, as the two countries have tightened their defense and non-defense relationships in the last several months.

The two countries agreed to “explore” sharing carrier technology and design and establish a working group under a larger January bilateral agreement.

President Barack Obama met with Indian Prime Minister Narendra Modi in New Delhi in January, and Pentagon acquisition chief Frank Kendall has made several trips to India to discuss current and potential defense partnerships.
India has begun early work on the indigenous aircraft carrier-II (IAC-II) program — the planned 65,000-ton Vishal — setting aside $5 million for early design efforts.

Vishal is thought to be a much more complex than India’s first indigenous carrier effort and could include a catapult launching system and nuclear power. The increased capability comes with an increased level of construction difficulty, which could necessitate the assistance of the U.S.

Indian officials have expressed some interest in General Atomics’ Electromagnetic Aircraft Launch System (EMALS) being installed on the U.S. Navy’s Gerald Ford-class carriers (CVN-78).

Meanwhile, the first domestic carrier, the 40,000-ton INS Vikrant was set to be re-launched on May 28 but action was delayed due to environmental considerations, according to local press reports.

The Modi government has made carrier construction a priority and accelerated completion of Vikrant and development of Vishal.

INS Viraat — the former U.K. Royal Navy carrier Hermes — is scheduled to retire next year which will leave the Soviet era INS Vikramaditya India’s sole carrier.

Vipul · Post by **Vipul** » 04 Jun 2015 07:56

PLA could blockade India with just 10 submarines: Sina.

The People's Liberation Army Navy could block India's western and eastern coasts with just 10 submarines in the event of conflict in the Indian Ocean, according to the Sina Military Network website on June 2.

An article published last year claimed that a single attack submarine deployed to the Bay of Bengal or Arabian Sea could threaten the entire operations of the Indian Navy. It could even challenge the INS Vikramaditya, the former Russian aircraft carrier commissioned in 2013. This is a primary mission why India decided to build two additional carriers with the assistance of the United States, the piece said.

With the Indian Navy also adding more submarines to its fleet, the Sina Military Network concluded that the PLA's three Type 091 Han-class, four Type 093 Shang-class and two Type 095 attack submarines are not sufficient for a total blockade of the subcontinent. However, it said it would not be necessary for the PLA Navy to block the country's southern waters that are closer to the coast of Africa. In this case, about 10 attack submarines could suffice.

India has eight primary naval bases but only the three located in Mumbai, Karwar and Visakhapatnam are used for actual military operations. This being the case, the article said that even six nuclear-powered attack submarines are needed to block India's major naval bases completely with two covering each base.

member_22539 · Post by **member_22539** » 04 Jun 2015 08:09

^This is a joke right? I could buy such a nonsensical story if it were with regard to Fiji, but applying such delusions against any country with anti-submarine capabilities (that too partly American supplied, against the fake chinese crap) is beyond laughable. I pity the fools who came up with such sh!t.

Singha · Post by **Singha** » 04 Jun 2015 08:44

we would have the advantages of deploying submarine hunters, LRMP and our own submarines to hunt them down.

I figure they could do some damage with LACM strikes and torpedoing random ships, but some would be hunted down and sunk, until the rest withdraw.

Bade · Post by **Bade** » 04 Jun 2015 08:51

With ISRO embarking on SAR satellites, there can be 24hr tracking possibilities too.
http://gentleseas.blogspot.com/2012/08/ ... rines.html

Aditya_V · Post by **Aditya_V** » 04 Jun 2015 08:57

I think while article is not correct, we should try and keep enough Naval bases on the Mainland, say Kolkota, one in Orissa, Vizag, Machillipattinam, one in Krishnapattinam area, Chennai, Tuticorin, Kochin, Mangalore, Karwar, One on the Konkan coat, Mumbai, a base in gulf of Kumbhat, plus Porbandhar, 1 in A&N islands and a few vessels in Madagascar, Oman in order to truely deter our enemies.

Our economy and civilian shipping, shipbuilding capabilities will also need to grow in a similar scale.

This should be 20-30 year plan.

Pet wish is that we somehow have some Sonar arrays in Bombay high and Guj coast and 24*7 monitor those pakis subs like Sosus.

nits · Post by **nits** » 04 Jun 2015 12:15

http://idrw.org/pla-could-blockade-india-with-just-10-submarines-sina/

The People’s Liberation Army Navy could block India’s western and eastern coasts with just 10 submarines in the event of conflict in the Indian Ocean, according to the Sina Military Network website on June 2.

An article published last year claimed that a single attack submarine deployed to the Bay of Bengal or Arabian Sea could threaten the entire operations of the Indian Navy. It could even challenge the INS Vikramaditya, the former Russian aircraft carrier commissioned in 2013. This is a primary mission why India decided to build two additional carriers with the assistance of the United States, the piece said.

With the Indian Navy also adding more submarines to its fleet, the Sina Military Network concluded that the PLA’s three Type 091 Han-class, four Type 093 Shang-class and two Type 095 attack submarines are not sufficient for a total blockade of the subcontinent. However, it said it would not be necessary for the PLA Navy to block the country’s southern waters that are closer to the coast of Africa. In this case, about 10 attack submarines could suffice.

India has eight primary naval bases but only the three located in Mumbai, Karwar and Visakhapatnam are used for actual military operations. This being the case, the article said that even six nuclear-powered attack submarines are needed to block India’s major naval bases completely with two covering each base.

Philip · Post by **Philip** » 04 Jun 2015 17:50

Not to be taken lightly.Last year despite the USN's huge ASW assets,a Russian Akula-2 SSGN merrily snooped along the US's eastern seaboard undetected. In the Falklands War,just one sinking by an RN N-sub sent the entire Argie fleet fleeing home. In WW2,Gunther Prien ,in a daring raid,penetrated the RN's main North Sea anchorage at Scapa Flow and sank the battleship the Royal Oak. That saw causeways constructed connecting some of the islands ,called the "Churchill barriers",to prevent German U-boats from repeating Prien's feat.

If Chinese subs penetrate into the IOR from the south,esp. their N-subs,noisy though they might be,armed with Chinese anti-ship missiles they could pose a real threat to the IN's capital ships. Our ASW resources are average right now,with many ships without ASW helos (100 required!),TAS,etc.The P-8Is as well are new and we've no idea whether they've met the desired performance stds. expected.The post about USN P-8s having teething problems should be read,whether they are unique to USN Poseidons or not.More MRP aircraft are badly needed. Carriers to most submariners are "sitting ducks".The borrowed Swedish diesel sub used by the USN in exercises for a year "sank" US carriers many a time. A N-powered super carrier will cost anywhere upward of $10B,plus it has to have another 4-5 escorts,logistic ships,etc as part of the CBG.Instead ,smaller Vikrant class CVs along with extra N-subs/AIP subs would be a better deterrent to the PLAN's subs. We would be able to get at least 6 Akula-2 SSGNs for the price of just one N-powered heavy CV,or over 20 diesel subs like advanced Kilos/Amurs!

The Chinese intend to flood the IOR with their subs,along with the Paki subs,operating out of Gwadar.They will have at least 70-80 subs by 2020,USN estimate. They could easily divert at least a dozen of them into the IOR,without batting an eyelid.12 PLAN subs plus another 12 PN subs would be catastrophic for the IN whose total intended sub fleet right now is a miserable 24! The Arihant class SSBNs don't count as they are for the strat. forces.

Unless the IN/GOI acquire more subs on a war footing,we will be outnumbered and outflanked by the Sino-Pak JV in our own backyard. This is the Chinese answer to the "Malacca dilemma",using a similar strategy to Adm.Doenitz and his U-boat wolf packs which wreaked havoc with Allied shipping in WW2. It was only the breaking of the German code that enabled the Allies to defeat the German U-boat threat because they knew the locations of the German subs and directed their ASW aircraft and destroyers to deal with them. With today's AIP subs not requiring to snorkel for weeks,it will be a far more difficult task to detect Chinese subs,as they have tweaked the Russian Kilo design with their own hybrids using German engines and Stirling engine AIP tech.All their modern subs now carry either Chinese origin sub-launched anti-ship missiles,or their Klub equivalents.

For the IN,it is a most serious challenge and has to be met with immediate decision-making. We need a few more Akula SSGNs,offered to us,at least 4,which will be far superior diesel AIP, to anything that China has both nuclear or non-nuclear,plus a speedy acquisition from abroad of either/or a combination of German U-boats,extra 2 Scorpenes that the French have offered to build in France at a lesser cost,or more advanced BMos armed Kilos/Amurs which will be the cheapest solution. This G-to-G "quick-fix" must also be accompanied by the accelerated plan of building 6 desi SSNs at home.

Philip · Post by **Philip** » 04 Jun 2015 19:01

Good work L&T!
http://www.newindianexpress.com/busines ... 847323.ece

L&T Wins Rs 468-Crore Defence Order for Naval Floating Dock
By PTI
Published: 03rd June 2015

NEW DELHI: Larsen & Toubro (L&T) bagged a Rs 468-crore contract from the Ministry of Defence for the design and construction of a floating dock for the Indian Navy (FDN).

The floating dock is expected to significantly augment support infrastructure of the Navy for docking of warships and submarines for repair and refit.

"In keeping with the government's 'Make in India' thrust, complete design and engineering of FDN will be undertaken in-house at L&T's Warship Design Centre," the infrastructure major said in a statement.

"The floating dock will be capable of docking naval ships and submarines of up to 8000 T displacement with draughts up to 7 m, during day and night," said MV Kotwal, President, Heavy Engineering and Board Member, Larsen & Toubro.

The company said the dock will conform to international standards and incorporate fully automated Ballast Control System.

The FDN will be self-sufficient, catering to service requirements of docked and berthed warships, it added.

L&T is also executing MoD contract for design and construction of 54 fast Interceptor Boats (IBs) for the Indian Coast Guard (ICG).

It said 27 IBs have already been delivered to ICG, the latest one two years ahead of schedule. The company said it's looking to complete delivery of all boats well ahead of the cut-off.

The award of the floating dock contract to L&T came on the back of a recent order for design and construction of seven offshore patrol vessels for ICG at Rs 1,432 crore.

L&T's Kattupalli Shipyard near Chennai is specially designed for undertaking simultaneous construction and refit of multiple ships and submarines.

With the construction and refit of multiple defence vessels, L&T is now playing a significant role in the creation and upkeep of India's defence fleet assets, the company said.

The stock was trading at Rs 1,663.45, down 0.53 per cent, from its previous close on BSE.

Larsen & Toubro is an Indian multinational engaged in technology, engineering, construction, manufacturing and financial services with over USD 15 billion in revenue and operates in over 30 countries worldwide.

Karan M · Post by **Karan M** » 04 Jun 2015 20:48

ALTAS is now on order!!
http://www.newindianexpress.com/cities/ ... 845966.ece
Keltron Clinches Naval Deal
By Express News Service
Published: 03rd June 2015 06:04 AM

KOCHI: Keltron Aroor unit has bagged the order for the manufacture and supply of two Towed Receiver Array (TRA) for Naval vessels valued at Rs 4.5 crore through tender from DRDO, Kochi.

DRDO has developed the new TRA having enhanced detection capabilities than the existing Towed Array using advanced technologies. Keltron, the manufacturing partner of DRDO for Sonar Arrays has to supply the systems in six months time.

Karakulam Unit of Keltron got an order from BEL worth Rs 2.85 crore for the supply of three 3rd generation ‘Underwater Acoustic Communication System’. Keltron is the only company in India manufacturing and supplying UWACS for Naval Ships.

suryag · Post by **suryag** » 04 Jun 2015 21:26

All these achievements about Russian subs is pretty much hot air. The USN uses their exercises as baits to capture the sonar signatures of these subs so that they don't bleed in realtime

NRao · Post by **NRao** » 05 Jun 2015 00:22

At the risk of beating a dead horse:

White paper highlights {Chinese} blue-water ambitions

Karan M · Post by **Karan M** » 05 Jun 2015 01:30

pandyan wrote:^^^ The above is a local replacement for phoren ATLAS?

yes sir!!

Karan M · Post by **Karan M** » 05 Jun 2015 02:10

Karan M wrote:ALTAS is now on order!!
http://www.newindianexpress.com/cities/ ... 845966.ece
Keltron Clinches Naval Deal
By Express News Service
Published: 03rd June 2015 06:04 AM

KOCHI: Keltron Aroor unit has bagged the order for the manufacture and supply of two Towed Receiver Array (TRA) for Naval vessels valued at Rs 4.5 crore through tender from DRDO, Kochi.

DRDO has developed the new TRA having enhanced detection capabilities than the existing Towed Array using advanced technologies. Keltron, the manufacturing partner of DRDO for Sonar Arrays has to supply the systems in six months time.

Karakulam Unit of Keltron got an order from BEL worth Rs 2.85 crore for the supply of three 3rd generation ‘Underwater Acoustic Communication System’. Keltron is the only company in India manufacturing and supplying UWACS for Naval Ships.

Be worth it to track which naval ships these head to. IMHO, this is a LSP for further trials and the order has been placed after the system was succesful in its first set of trials proving its baseline design was sound.

Karan M · Post by **Karan M** » 05 Jun 2015 02:12

More on ALTAS

ALTAS

NAGAN Active Towed Array Sonar developed by DRDO’s Naval Science and Technological Laboratory (NSTL), NPOL (National Physical and Oceanographic Laboratory, Cochin) in conjunction with BEL. The initial trials of the system re-engineered NAGAN, were conducted in early 2012 with user participation and showed encouraging results. However, the shift in wish list of user due to rapid advancements in technologies available made the system no more desirable. Hence, NAGAN project was officially wrapped up as a technology demonstrator. While, the time delay and cost over run is a concern, there is a need to resolve differences in percieved qualitative requirements during the project between the DRDO and Users which leads to non-acceptance of the developed systems, at a later stage.

In 2008, DRDO had given go ahead for import of the system; however the import could not materialize due to various reasons. Incidentally, German company, Atlas Elektronic emerged as frontrunner in a global tender to supply cutting edge ATAS to the navy. Predictably, allegations of corruption were raised against Atlas and the import was put on hold.

In April 2012, a fresh project ‘Advanced Light Towed Array Sonar’ (ALTAS) was sanctioned by Ministry of Defence based on the revised NSQR with PDC of April 2016. Project ALTAS a Low-Frequency had enhanced performance parameters incorporated in NSQR to meet present and futuristic requirement of the Navy. The development and Laboratory tests were completed by the concerned DRDO Lab in record time by 2014, almost two year ahead of schedule. DRDO requested the availability of trial platform ship (INS Sharda) for installing the equipment for sea trials in early 2014. The ship was made available in mid 2014 and DRDO installed one complete system on the ship. However, the trials could not proceed due to onset of rainy season. DRDO Scientists are confident of the performance during sea trials. It is to the credit of DRDO that the system has been realized with production grade systems and sub-systems produced by the Indian industry. Once accepted by Users the production can go ahead and equip all the platforms needing the systems. To me it seems like major achievement and sure signs the way the things to come. The India’s warships built since 1997 shares the vulnerability as none of which have an ATAS and remain reliant on its less capable hull-mounted sonar, the indigenous HUMSA-NG. Hopefully, both the systems are likely to be operational in about years time.

We need to acknowledge that development projects take time and such hick-ups do come up due to the process of design, production or procurement. These projects are on learning curve of our defence industry for concurrent development. The Prime Minister has been reminding the stakeholders to speed up projects and advance delivery schedules. Waiting for one system or upgrade, we should not lose opportunity on the overall realization. All stakeholders rather than pointing finger should support the developmental efforts.

Let us face the fact that the Indian defence development and production industry is improving on their shortcomings & capabilities and need some

hand holding and encouragement by all the stakeholders. These fighting vessels are from our shipyards and not imported and so will be the two systems which are likely to be fitted within a year’s time. The emphasis of government’s policy on indigenization is evident, as it is immensely benefiting the country in the present situation.

Maj Gen Dr. Bhupinder Yadav (Retd.)

http://www.defproac.com/?p=1413

Also
http://pib.nic.in/newsite/PrintRelease. ... lid=114175

ALTAS was realized with establishment of Towed array SONAR technology with 100% indigenous capabilities with two production centres. The system is designed to detect and identify submarines and underwater weapons. First technical trial on ALTAS has been conducted with satisfactory results.

VinodTK · Post by **VinodTK** » 05 Jun 2015 04:25

India gives up pursuit of Navy war room leak kingpin Ravi Shankaran

NEW DELHI: More than nine years after naval war room leak kingpin Ravi Shankaran escaped the dragnet of India's premier investigating agency CBI, it is now confirmed that India is not going after him.

In a move that will end all attempts to bring to justice mastermind of one of India's biggest military espionage cases, UK high court's last year's order quashing Shankaran's extradition will not be challenged at all, top sources have told TOI. Shankaran is presently living in the UK.

The government and CBI's stand of not appealing against Shankaran's extradition is baffling given the fact he is still a proclaimed offender and is listed among the 'wanted' persons in CBI's Interpol list.

A top official said, "We had secured his extradition and he was almost in our hands. But now there is no way Ravi Shankaran can ever be charged for the conspiracy".

The issue has been conveniently buried by the government as India didn't go in appeal even when it had a chance.

Up until April last year, UK's Crown Prosecution Service, on behalf of India, had argued that the CBI had substantial evidence proving Shankaran's active role in leaking Indian war room secrets to arms dealers and hence he deserved to be extradited to India. In fact, UK home secretary Theresa May had signed the official orders for 50-year-old Shankaran's extradition to India on May 22, 2013 giving him 14 days to appeal against the order. Shankaran had then challenged the order in the high court, which rejected the extradition last year in April.

India's lawyer in UK Crown Prosecution Service had reportedly advised CBI not to go in appeal, a view, sources say should have been properly examined here by Indian authorities.

Shankaran has escaped the clutches of Indian law even as those accused along with him in the scandal - three former naval officers Kulbhushan Prashar, former naval commander Vijender Rana, and sacked naval commander V K Jha, former IAF Wing Commander Sambha Jee L Surve and arms dealer and Delhi-based businessman Abhishek Verma were last year put on trial in a Delhi court.

Charges have been framed against them and the case is at the evidence stage.

CBI had booked Shankaran in the 2006 case after which his passport was revoked and a red corner notice was issued against him in July 2006. He was absconding since the case was registered in the matter.

An extradition request was sent to the UK in 2007 following reports that he was in the country and was arrested by UK authorities in April 2010 on the basis of the non-bailable arrest warrants issued by a Delhi court.

ramana · Post by **ramana** » 05 Jun 2015 05:18

See even the case against those already 5 arrested is moving with snail's space. First get these 5 sentenced and then can think about the other fellow.

If Indian passport was revoked in 2006 how is he staying in UK?.
Isn't there a passport violation offence in UK?

Most likely there is benign neglect from UK allowing the absconder to stay in UK.

By now he probably has applied for UK citizenship.

So above article is just fulmination.

NRao · Post by **NRao** » 05 Jun 2015 05:21

WRT the carrier topic:

Beijing tells India to lay off South China Sea, defends PoK corridor

So, India cannot drill a commercial project in the SCS, but China can build a commercial project in PoK!!!

India can’t explore for oil in disputed areas of the South China Sea, Beijing said Thursday while defending its $46 billion trade corridor through Pakistan-occupied Kashmir — described as unacceptable by New Delhi — as a “livelihood project”.

A network of roads, railways and pipelines, the 3,000km-long corridor aims to connect China’s northwestern Xinjiang region to Gwadar port in Pakistan’s southwest while passing through PoK.

But, according to Huang Xilian, deputy director general, Asian Affairs in foreign ministry, India has nothing to worry as it is a commercial venture.

“We know the concern of the Indian side and those projects are not political projects. They are all for livelihood of people,” he told a group of Indian journalists and academics in Beijing.

The same principle, however, does not seem apply to India. Huang said he was not aware exactly which part of the sea India planned to look for oil but indicated if it was in disputed waters, it would be a problem.

“India will react if a Chinese company goes to a disputed area with a South Asian neighbour,” Huang said when asked about Beijing’s objections.

China has, in the past, reacted sharply to India’s ONGC being awarded exploration contracts by Vietnam. India has defended the projects, saying they are purely commercial and need not be politicised.

Beijing claims almost the entire South China Sea, a major global shipping route believed to be home to oil and gas reserves, and is locked in maritime disputes with several countries such as Vietnam, Philippines and Brunei.

The diplomat, however, sought to distinguish between India’s South China Sea plan and his country’s investment push in PoK. China’s commercial activity in Pakistan was nothing new but India’s forays into the Sea were fairly recent, he said.

To India’s objections to the economic corridor passing through PoK, Huang said bilateral territorial disputes should be resolved by sides involved.

“There is this kind of action for many years. We do not side with the any party on the issue of the territory. We have been advocating that the disputes should be solved through concerned parties through peaceful means,” he said.

China and Pakistan share close ties and the corridor, a part of Beijing’s aim to forge “Silk Road” land and sea ties to markets in West Asia and Europe, is a step further in cementing the ties.

“These kind of commercial activities do not affect the position of China on the claimants of the territory,” he said.

India had called the Chinese ambassador and also made known its objections to the plan through its envoy in Beijing. “… And, when the Prime Minister had gone there (to China), he talked about it very firmly. He raised it very strongly that it is not acceptable to us what you are talking about China-Pakistan economic corridor going to PoK,” India’s foreign minister Sushma Swaraj said in New Delhi on May 31.

sum · Post by **sum** » 05 Jun 2015 05:22

Augusta Westland seems to have done lots of "dealings" worldwide:
Korean Rear admiral arrested in bribe case

It was the first time that the special investigation team arrested a serving, high-ranking officer for alleged corruption and taking advantage of one’s position. The team reported that while Park was working as the director of the Navy’s strategic planning unit, he was involved in the 2012 selection of AW159 Wildcats for use as maritime helicopters. The helicopter is made by AgustaWestland S.p.A., an Anglo-Italian company.

To help the special-purpose helicopter win the bid, Park fabricated evaluations of the AW159, though it actually did not meet the operational specifications required by the Navy. The investigators are looking into Park’s superiors in the chain of command after finding evidence they may have colluded in the selection of the AW159.

Singha · Post by **Singha** » 05 Jun 2015 07:24

the Atlas LRIP order will send a shiver of concern in Atlas elektronik which was hoping to supply almost the entire DDG/FFG fleet with towed sonars.

the name itself might be a pun to scare them

Karan M · Post by **Karan M** » 05 Jun 2015 13:20

ALTAS vs ATLAS

Austin · Post by **Austin** » 06 Jun 2015 11:23

Ravi Shankaran might have been an MI6 mole since he has access to Naval War Room and perhaps other classified information. So he is the official guest with blessing of Law of Land .

Having said that even in Gulshan Kumar Murder case the two accused Nadeem and Shravan fled to UK and was granted stand in UK by courts , seems like UK is a good place to be for Indian criminals

rkhanna · Post by **rkhanna** » 06 Jun 2015 11:39

Having said that even in Gulshan Kumar Murder case the two accused Nadeem and Shravan fled to UK and was granted stand in UK by courts , seems like UK is a good place to be for Indian criminals

Dont know how true what you are hinting at is but nonetheless The UK (via EU law) will always grant assylum to anybody who maybe subject to capital punishment in their home country.

the UK today is the Jihadi financial and PR capital of the world for a reason.

Philip · Post by **Philip** » 06 Jun 2015 16:41

Invite Ravi S to tea in a Piccadilly restaurant and lace his cuppa with polonium! That's how the Russians allegedly take care of their traitors according to the Brits.But the Russians deny doing so ,swatting a vagrant fly with such sophistication!

Anyway India has never made an example of some of them,has never gone after its traitors,which is why so many of them appear from time to time.Had we done so earlier,we would see less of them. I would sincerely advocate that in certain cases we follow the Israeli example of how to deal with the worst of them. The fear of retribution should haunt any traitor forever,until his/her dying day. They should,like the Brits in India,never have a peaceful night's sleep.

Now for some heated debate!
http://www.nationalinterest.org/blog/th ... ndia-13053
Can China's Nuclear Submarines Blockade India?

India is growing increasing concerned about China’s submarine deployments in the Indian Ocean, as Beijing ramps up talk of being able to blockade India with nuclear submarines.

This week, the Indian-based news outlet, NDTV, cited unnamed Indian naval sources as saying that India’s Navy is worried by China’s increasingly frequent submarine deployments in the Indian Ocean.

In September 2013, China confirmed for the first time that a nuclear attack submarine would transit the Indian Ocean on its way to carry out the international anti-piracy mission in the Gulf of Aden. This was followed by submarines docking in the Chinese-funded Colombo port of Sri Lanka twice last year.

The first docking, back in September 2014, was a Song-class diesel-electric attack submarine. However, seven weeks later a Type 091 Han-class nuclear-powered submarine surfaced in Sri Lanka. Around the same time, China reportedly informed India that a Type-093 Shang-class nuclear-powered attack submarine would begin patrolling in the Indian Ocean.

It is these nuclear-powered submarines that are particularly worrisome to the Indian Navy. As NDTV reports, “the deployment of the relatively advanced Shang Class nuclear fast attack boat, [is] a significant cause of concern at Naval Headquarters.”

Both India and China rely heavily on sea-borne commerce that transits the Indian Ocean on its way to Beijing and Delhi. For example, trade represents nearly 55 percent of India’s GDP, most of which is carried by sea. China is even more reliant on trade, which in recent years has comprised about 60 percent of China’s GDP. Roughly 85 percent of China’s trade is seaborne.

As such, both countries are highly concerned about their vulnerability to potential blockades, which submarines would be crucial in enforcing.

Indeed, just this week Want China Times noted that the Sina Military Network, a Beijing-based defense website, recently speculated that China could blockade India’s eastern and western coastlines with just ten attack submarines. Specifically, “the Sina Military Network concluded that the PLA's three Type 091 Han-class, four Type 093 Shang-class and two Type 095 attack submarines” could blockade these coasts, according to Want China Times (Interestingly, Sina Military Network made note of the NDTV article cited above).

Sina Military Network went on to say that just six submarines would be necessary to render India’s three military naval bases—located at Mumbai, Karwar and Visakhapatnam—moot.

China operates a massive undersea fleet, with the U.S. Navy confirming in February of this year that the PLA Navy now boasts more attack submarines than it currently possesses.

“Their submarine force has grown over a tremendous rate. They now have more diesel and nuclear attack submarines than we have so they’ve passed us in total quantity — but in quality they are still not there,” Vice Adm. Joseph Mulloy, deputy chief of Naval operations, integration of capabilities and resources, told Congress.

As Mulloy’s statement indicates, China also has one of the fastest growing undersea fleets in the world. In April 2015, for example, China Daily reported that China was getting set to launch three of its most advanced 093G-Type nuclear-powered attack submarines.

China Daily said of the fourth-generation attack submarines:

“The Type-093G is reported to be an upgraded version of Type-093, China’s second-generation nuclear-powered attack submarine, which entered active service several years ago. With a teardrop hull, the submarine is longer than its predecessor and has a vertical launching system.”

The Type-093s are expected to be equipped with China’s new YJ-18 supersonic anti-ship missile, according to China Daily.

The same article reported that China “has about four nuclear-powered Type-094 ballistic missile submarines, up to six Type-093 nuclear-powered attack submarines and about three old Type-091 nuclear-powered attack submarines.”

Nikhil T · Post by **Nikhil T** » 07 Jun 2015 21:10

Missed this tidbit:

PM Modi handed over the steering wheel of ex-INS Vikrant (R11) that played a key role in East bangladesh ops in 1971, to Bangladesh PM Hasina. What a priceless piece of our naval history given away as a gift!

Pic

d_berwal · Post by **d_berwal** » 07 Jun 2015 21:57

Nikhil T wrote:Missed this tidbit:

PM Modi handed over the steering wheel of ex-INS Vikrant (R11) that played a key role in East bangladesh ops in 1971, to Bangladesh PM Hasina. What a priceless piece of our naval history given away as a gift!

Pic

This is how History is created

what a masterstroke of international diplomacy!!

Even if people in Pk/US/BD/EU wanna erase history it will always remind them how BD independence was gained and who was their friend and who was enemy!!!

Karthik S · Post by **Karthik S** » 07 Jun 2015 22:23

Doubt if handing over the steering wheel will have any effect in reminding them about their independence.
I'd have liked the steering wheel to be in a naval museum etc as a reminder and motivation to our present and next generations.

d_berwal · Post by **d_berwal** » 07 Jun 2015 22:35

have a little perspective dont be so judgmental

This wheel will be placed in some museum of some sort only

and when future generations see it the perspective will be in place

well on a lighter note god or kegru can only motivate present generation so ... the wheel has found a home ... bless it an move on!!

devesh · Post by **devesh** » 08 Jun 2015 02:18

In the Islamic mind, this a victory for Islam. The kafirs dutifully gives away symbols of his victory to the Islamics....that's how this will be remembered. Looks like BJP/RSS/Modi/Doval are seriously compromised when it comes to BD. The mistake is in assuming that Pakistan is the only Islamic nation of its kind. This is a fundamental failure in understanding Islamic societies.

Karan M · Post by **Karan M** » 08 Jun 2015 02:32

devesh, oh come on man.

devesh · Post by **devesh** » 08 Jun 2015 08:29

OT here, anyway! I just realized this is Naval thread. but let's just wait and see if this in anyway changes BD's increasingly Jihadi behavior. My bet is that it won't. they will continue the slide. in the grand scheme of things, this "deal" will achieve nothing.

member_22539 · Post by **member_22539** » 08 Jun 2015 09:41

^we can either "try" to stop and reverse their jihadization or just self-flagellate, though some people seem to prefer the latter.

JE Menon · Post by **JE Menon** » 08 Jun 2015 10:34

Plus we have the ship itself...

Lots of blue on blue happening across various threads for no clear reason, including personal attacks on serving ministers. One may be tempted to suspect guidance.

Rupesh · Post by **Rupesh** » 08 Jun 2015 12:31

JE Menon wrote:Plus we have the ship itself...

.

Nope. It was sold for scrap.

INS Vikrant, hero of ’71 war, reduced to heap of scrap

Singha · Post by **Singha** » 08 Jun 2015 12:55

Philip · Post by **Philip** » 08 Jun 2015 16:51

Had this been a Chinese carrier,it would've been one of the most popular tourist attractions for that country's natives! How much really would've it have cost the nation ,MOD/GOI to have saved it? The cost of saving the Vikrant and turning her into a museum was peanuts in comparison to the thousands of crores wasted in the NREGA dole,siphoned off by the corrupt.
This is one of the most shameful acts of omission collectively by our politicians to the memory of our historic victory in '71 ,where we dismembered Pak!

This is why we are destined to wallow in the shallows of history while other nations who respect,venerate their forbears and their exploits,who preserve their history and heritage,remind generations of their countrymen and women of the historic exploits of their nation and its leaders down the centuries of history,to become global leaders. We pay only lip service to our jawans and uniformed men,and thanks to the influence of babudom,pay them a pittance in pensions,denying them the promise made before the elections of OROP! It is a promise that this regime must keep,otherwise it will be no better than the promises made by various Congress regimes,that betrayed the sacrifice in blood of our armed forces since Independence.

It is so ironic that the helm of the carrier is given to BDesh while the proud vessel is reduced to scrap in India!

http://www.wantchinatimes.com/news-subc ... 0608000109

Pakistan nearing assembly stage of S20 submarine

Staff Reporter 2015-06-08
A Type 039A Yuan-class submarine. (Internet photo)

Pakistan is preparing for the assembly of the S20, the export version of China's Type 039A Yuan-class diesel-electric submarine equipped with air-independent propulsion, according to a Karachi Shipyard & Engineering Works official cited in the Canada-based Kanwa Defense Review.

This is the first time for a Pakistani official to reveal the nation's intention to purchase the Chinese submarine, according to the report. Pakistan completed its technical negotiations with China about importing six S20 submarines, though an agreed means of payment has delayed the signing of the deal.

Pakistan requires technology transfer from China, said the report. However, it wants all of its vessels to be equipped with its own fire-control and weapon systems.