From what i read and hear this may be a regular feature. 
Expect shortages to poor jholawala houses without "liquids" to warm them and no "white' light.The use of force or military intervention –held in abeyance since the end of the Second Gulf War-is back in interstate relations. This is demonstrated eloquently by the resort to what can be termed as ‘hot pursuit’ by the elite corps of the Indian Army.
An elite commando group entered Myanmar territory and eliminated scores of militants. A militant attack on Indian troops in Manipur a few days ago apparently provoked the attack inside Myanmar. Coincidentally, the United States has overcome its reluctance to military intervene against the ISIS and has established a military base in Iraq. These two cases are purely coincidental but suggest that force as an instrument in statecraft is back in international relations. Historically, the use of force in international relations is hedged and qualified.
The United Nations Charter expressly forbids the use of force in interstate relations. Sovereignty is held to be a cardinal maxim that cannot be violated. This ‘rule’ was breached by the United States after 11 September when the country’s homeland was attacked. The United States retaliated by attacking Iraq, deposing Saddam and occupying the country. {When did Saddam do 9/11?} The United States over rode International law and went to war under the rubric of pre-emptive war. Pre-emptive war is legitimated when a state has intelligence regarding the intentions of another (hostile) state and when an attack is imminent.
The Myanmar hot pursuit appears to have taken a leaf from the United States’ pre-emptive doctrine and attacked militant outfits in Myanmar in defiance of sovereignty and it could be said even international law. The state has gone further and asserted that the Myanmar operation was not an isolated one; it would hold in the future too against hostile states and groups.
What can be inferred and extrapolated from this activism by the Indian state?
First, it would appear, India is not reluctant over the projection of force across borders. The architect of this activism, if press reports are to be believed is Ajit Doval, the National Security Advisor to the government. This means that India’s National Security doctrine has undergone a radical shift and departure. It has shifted gears from being reactive to aggressive. The approach meshes and gels with India’s aspirations for regional hegemony.wow!
Second, at the risk of repetition, it means that force is once again de rigeur in international relations. However, the major insight appears to be that regional hegemons or aspirational regional hegemons will take it upon themselves to settle conflicts and disputes within the ambit of their respective regions. This would be a departure from past practice of taking recourse to pleading with or seeking help from global powers for dispute settlement or conflict resolution. In this sense, force and power projection become the locus around which states settle or arbiter their conflicts and from a broader perspective and canvas accrues from United States’ relative decline and even quasi isolationism.
The third point that flows from this is the 'security dilemma' and the attendant arms races become prominent again. The security dilemma is a spiral that accrues when one state’s attempts to maximize security and power induces the other state or states to do the same. Arms racing are a natural concomitant to the security dilemma. The world or at least the South Asian region is then back to square one. The region now risks being a heavily militarized region with potential implications for the alliance system(s) in the region.
All this suggests a bleak future for the subcontinent. But the major consequences will be between archrivals India and Pakistan. Will the Doval doctrine and the signaling inherent in it make Pakistan cower?
Unlikely is the answer. The Pakistani state is primed for conflict with India. And toward this end, Pakistan to gain parity with India has acquired nuclear weapons. This neutralizes India's superiority in conventional forces and leads to a deterrence paradigm between the two countries. So India is unlikely to replicate the Myanmar experience with Pakistan unless it wants to disturb and throw out of kilter the deterrence balance that holds. Disturbing this would axiomatically lead to a nuclear conflagration in the region-a prospect that rationality suggests both countries should shy away from. The statements emanating from the Indian state’s defence establishment then are in the nature of rhetoric and posturing.
Or , in the least, one would hope that it is mere posturing. If , however, there is more to the statements other than signaling, there are reasons for despair. The subcontinent will fall victim to a more militarized rivalry and could well become the 'most dangerous place on the earth'. This is a condition that serves none and should be averted. Prudence then dictates that sobriety and a sense of proportion informs inter state relations both in the subcontinent and the world at large.
Did it ever cross your mind how the Dogra regiment would feel about it? A soldier lives and fights only for his honour! And it won't be honourable for him to ask Myanmar Army to do what is essentially his job.Can you imagine a scenario 10x better than what currently happened? I can.
+108JE Menon wrote:We Indians have to learn to not bother too much about how other people think. Or to put it another way, to bother about how other people think to the same extent that other people bother how we think about their actions or inaction.
What are you talking, saar??Raja Bose wrote:Could we have even imagined such swift decisive action during the Congoon reign of Termite Queen, her idiot son Rahul baba and Napunsak Singh?RamaY wrote:Thus a new era begins.Full marks to the Modi sarkar.
Former union minister and Congress leader Anand Sharma on Thursday criticized the Bharatiya Janata Party-led (BJP) NDA government for publicising the army’s operations in Myanmar and said that jingoism and boastful claims are not going to help the operations of India’s special forces.
“It is very sad to see a spectacle where the government has embarked on a publicity… those who should be taking care of national security are busy having sponsored stories in the newspapers and photographs about what they were doing in Manipur. What they proposed to do in the coming days, there should be sobriety, there should be maturity,” said Sharma.
“Jingoism and boastful claims are not going to help the operations of India’s special forces. There has to be secrecy. Special forces’ missions are always discreet. Their identity is not revealed. Their details are not disclosed. It is not the first time that our special forces have this capability. It did not happen overnight,” he added.
The Congress leader also cautioned Prime Minister Narendra Modi for the publicity that is going on post the Myanmar operations.
“I would urge the PM he should have drawn lesson from Nepal, himself when we went in for major relief operations there was a publicity and propaganda which caused us embarrassment in a country which has enormous amount of goodwill for India. The same has been happening over the last two days. Prime Minister should restrain his officials so that there is no repeat,” he said.
Sharma said that insurgency, terrorism, militancy and separatism are serious challenges India has faced over the decades.
“Our army has built its capabilities, the special forces have their reach and the armed forces have the understanding for operational purposes with the armed forces of the neighbouring countries to conduct operations with their knowledge and with their understanding,” he added.
It is better this way onlee....ShauryaT wrote:The mystery as to what air assets were used continues. Now I read somewhere that Dhruv was used to transport. So, what is it, Mi-17 only or Mi17+Mi-35 or Mi-35 only or Dhruv + mi 35 or Dhruv only or Mi-35 + SF crossing border on ground. I am ruling out the no air assets option as almost all the reports indicate that some type of air assets were used due to IAF involvement.
of all people you cant expect him to opine with gora POV.niran wrote:to hide celebrations is slave mentality like shoo! let us not celebrate lest gora sahib is disturbed from his <fill in your act>
Sood janab is from the same Brit were best generation, time has changed Indians have every right to celebrate even mohalla kirkit match Indian ishtyle (with loud crackers Puja Havan Daan bhang drinking and dancing wagera)
Listen to Bharat Karnad comment on the Myanmar strike by the Indian army
WHETHER IT REDEFINES INDIA'S COUNTER TERRORISM POLICY AND MORE
The Myanmar strikes are in the news right now. Do you think it is redefining India’s counter-terrorism policy?
Yes, I think it is. Earlier it was a passive mode where you did not really react in the manner you did this time. This is definitely a new approach by the government wherein they are going to retaliate in a very hard fashion if there is a terrorist attack by anybody across any border. So it effectively opens up possibilities against China (since it is a disputed border) and Pakistan as well.
The not so good thing that has happened is that it has taken an anti-Pakistan note because of our usual habit of reducing everything down to Pakistan, and in a sense it defeats the larger strategic purpose that we are trying to signal. Unfortunately, former Colonel and current Minister of State for Information & Broadcasting, Rajyavardhan Rathore, putting an anti-Pakistan spin on things in an indirect way has not helped either. Targeting Pakistan is not on because all it does is that Pakistan gets all worked up, everyone starts talking about a possible nuclear scenario, and the essential thing is lost.
Instead, what we are trying to say is - if there is a terrorist strike, we will respond to the strikes by eliminating the terrorists - the groups that are responsible for the strike. Very simple.
The other downside of the strike is that we have also put the Special Forces in the news by sharing their photographs. This is not done. Special Forces are special because they are incognito. Their photographs should never come out because they can become targets. These are secret missions. Now you have gone and said that the 21 Para commandos carried this out. You never let out which commando group did it.
How important is it to have the consent, or the partnership of the country in which you are going to conduct the surgical strikes?
When the countries themselves recognise there is a problem, as the Myanmar government does, as the Bhutanese government earlier did wherein we carried out a similar operation in 2003 eliminating ULFA terrorists, then it is fine. This was in that league, where compliant states were aware of the problem and they also needed help to root out terrorist outfits, which had forcibly occupied space in their own land.
In Burma, the Khaplang NSCN faction for instance (which wants an independent Nagaland), has support from Kachin army, also known as Chin army, which in turn is supported by China. The Kachin or Chin army controls Northern-North Eastern Myanmar. This part of Myanmar is controlled remotely by China through the Kachin army.
This is a much larger situation than merely going across the Manipur border and hitting. It points out the rather grave possibility of bigger powers involved, and I am not talking about Pakistan, but China. This raises the question – would India respond, as we seem to have some evidence of the Khaplang NSCN faction being supported by China through the Kachin army, in a similar manner in Northern Myanmar? Interesting thought. That is what we need to worry about. Pakistan is a very minor issue. We always get side-tracked and that’s what we should avoid doing.
That is a big problem Saar. It is true for other aspects of life as well. Example, less educated hardworking migrants from India try to be a good neighbour and do everything to impress their white neighbours. As a reward they get complains like dog barks too much,your kids do loud music in garden, oh you can not mow your lawn on sundays etc etc. I bought my villa from an American chacha (CEO of some steel cc) and he gave me piece of advise..........Son just ignore your European neighbours and you will live a good life. Did that and no problem. My dog is very noisy,kids used to splash in swimming pool till 10 in evening, have garden parties. No problem. BTW new generation IT guys here are free from such things. They have so much self confidence that they do not care about anybody. Europeans are bombarded by media about IT capabilities of indiansJE Menon wrote:We Indians have to learn to not bother too much about how other people think. Or to put it another way, to bother about how other people think to the same extent that other people bother how we think about their actions or inaction.
Gen Suhag is an expert in Covert Ops. He was IG of SFF. He knows China well. He was also Corp Commander of III Corps based in Dimapur. This Ops has his stamp, surely. With Doval backing up all the way on Behalf of NaMo this Ops could well be a departure from Past Ops. There was some report of six or seven injured rebels/terrorists. I hope they are in some "Field Hospital" recovering outside the purview of our hyperactive Judiciary and NHRC and Civil Society.hanumadu wrote:
en plus Gen Suhag ans Haryanvi Jatchaanakya wrote:Gen Suhag is an expert in Covert Ops. He was IG of SFF. He knows China well. He was also Corp Commander of III Corps based in Dimapur. This Ops has his stamp, surely. With Doval backing up all the way on Behalf of NaMo this Ops could well be a departure from Past Ops. There was some report of six or seven injured rebels/terrorists. I hope they are in some "Field Hospital" recovering outside the purview of our hyperactive Judiciary and NHRC and Civil Society.hanumadu wrote:
teri aisi ki taisi. Chodo England Yatra, pahle in Chini bacho ko dekhte hein The fact is that it took "4 days" before a response was carried out. That timeframe has to be dramatically shortened the next time,as such terror attacks will inevitably come from both east and west.
I don't agree with this unless we suffer a major terror attack.ramana wrote:Philip, A hasty raid would have been "brutus fulmen". They did what they have to do. In above post see third camp was also raided but found abandoned. Looks like some pata lag gaya.
- It was Indian media that first raised Myanmar integrity when there was treaty and full exchange of information and it was against Indian terrorists hiding in Myanmar that were attacked. TSP was too shell shocked to respond.
- BTW same media behavior after POKII tests. Same Congress caution, impotence and claiming credit rubric.
- Again Indian media released the file photo of soldiers with ALH. Not the govt. So Karnad should castigate them first.
Can we trace who released that picture first?
TSP has to do some fundamental rethinking now.
- Move terrorist training camps out of POK or deeper into the region.
- Handover Gilgit-Baltistan to China
- Move Dawood Ibrahim everyday
- India needs a standing force for prompt retaliation. This 72 hour mobilization needs to be reduced.
Because, MAD is actually USING the media. Media knows it but cannot do anything about it. Pardon my tamil....but Unki ga*d mein mirchi lagi hainKaran M wrote:I cant imagine why MAD are not kicking the media where it hurts. Again, and again, they have proven they act on behalf of India's opponents and act as their local representatives.
Please check what https://twitter.com/smitaprakash of ANI is saying on this. As per her MoD "authorised" to show some pictures with blurring of the faces. So she claims what not, and says ANI blurred but other newspapers did not.ramana wrote: Can we trace who released that picture first?
Boss yeh apne desh ka media kaisa hai. Dukhi kiye hue hai for last 2 days. Disgusting.pankajs wrote:Rishi Bagree @rishibagree 1h1 hour ago
Pakistan is the only country to have three Defense Ministers :
1) Nawaz Sharif
2) @BDUTT
3) Anand Sharma
#PiggistanScared
Ayya, I beg to differ. What is said about what is done is as important as what is done. Infowar is all part of the same war. Just ask Gobbels garu, or any of the India-hating evangelicals.Yagnasri wrote:Murthy sir, hardly anyone of us gives a damn about what is being said, particularly in undiTv etc, except few key words which may or may not reflect GOI policy. I am sure the good Col knows that he can not openly discuss SF operations etc. We do not care as long as some hot iron rods are pushed into some terror a##.
Unfortunately lot of coal may be burned to use hot irons and polluting air with carbon monoxide and contributing to "green" house effect. It may end up killing lot of animals like lizards etc. Very bad thing indeed.
The fellow is blandly and blatantly lying when he says India violated Myanmar's sovereignty. But if it allowed to fly, it makes for a disadvantage for our side: it makes pakis more self-righteous and supportive of attacking India (because India is and a dangerous sovereignty-violator). It makes Indians less supportive of aggressive anti-terrorist action, or if the less supportive ones are made to keep quiet due to force of jingos, it leads to propagandu about right wing fascism etc.The Myanmar hot pursuit appears to have taken a leaf from the United States' pre-emptive doctrine and attacked militant outfits in Myanmar in defiance of sovereignty and it could be said even international law. The state has gone further and asserted that the Myanmar operation was not an isolated one; it would hold in the future too against hostile states and groups
A short history of Indian Special Ops
The dawn would have illuminated the pools of blood, as the villagers emerged to count their dead. For all of the night of February 24, 2000, residents of the hamlet of Lanjote had bunkered down, hoping not to be hit by artillery fire arcing across the LoC. The 16 bodies on the streets, though, bore evidence of the precision savagery of the knife, not the shell: 90-year-old Mohammad Alam Wali, and a young couple, Mohammad Murtaza and Kali Begum, had been decapitated. Limbs were severed; heads hacked. The youngest victim, Ahmad Niaz, was just two. With deliberation, it seemed, the killers left behind a watch, Indian-made, and a hand-written note: “how does your own blood feel”. For years now, Pakistan has claimed the massacre at Lanjote was carried out by Indian special forces.
In private, some Indian intelligence officials admit the killings were carried out through pro-India insurgents — as revenge for the near-identical massacres of scores of Hindus by the Lashkar-e-Toiba in J&K’s Doda and Rajouri districts.
Like everything to do with successful covert operations, this story is opaque — and the facts hard to establish. For those who imagine that Tuesday’s strike deep across the border into Myanmar marked a new chapter in India’s military history, though, the Lanjote killings should give reason to pause.
Has Prime Minister Narendra Modi changed the rules of the game? Yes, and no. It’s often imagined that the Indian Army has been a passive victim of enemy atrocities — but it has, in fact, dished out at least as good as it has got. In Myanmar, the Indian Army has staged largescale cross-border operations in 1999 and 2006. In 2009, it pushed Northeast insurgents out of Bhutan. Indian intelligence services have successfully operated in Nepal, Bangladesh, and even Pakistan. For the most part, the Army is also believed to have retaliated against atrocities — though without publicity.
In May 1999, Capt Saurabh Kalia and five sepoys were kidnapped by Pakistani troops. Post mortem revealed bodies burnt with cigarette-ends, and genitals mutilated. In January 2000, seven Pakistani soldiers were alleged to have been captured in a raid across the Neelam River. The bodies were returned, according to Pakistan, bearing signs of brutal torture.
There have been a string of smaller incidents. In June 2008, Pakistani troops attacked a border observation post in Poonch, killing a soldier. In retaliation, Pakistani officials allege, Indian troops beheaded a Pakistani soldier on June 19, 2008 in the Bhattal sector.
