Intelligence and National Security Discussion

ramana
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Re: Intelligence and National Security Discussion

Postby ramana » 12 May 2015 23:31

Robert McNamara was the first President of Ford Foundation.

During WWII he worked there.

Mukesh.Kumar
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Re: Intelligence and National Security Discussion

Postby Mukesh.Kumar » 12 May 2015 23:35

ramana wrote:Robert McNamara was the first President of Ford Foundation.

During WWII he worked there.


Incorrect, McNamara worked for the USAF during the WWII. Post war he took up a role with Ford Motor Corp. As far as I remember he served on the board of FF. President of FF, I am not sure of.

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Re: Intelligence and National Security Discussion

Postby arshyam » 13 May 2015 00:01

ramana wrote:arshyam, Just because they contacted RR and AS doesn't mean those two are bad. Lots of people thresh about and try to clutch at straws. FF even made the US Ambassador speak for them.

Ramana sir, that's what I am saying too, sort of. Whether they are good or bad is not relevant yet, since we don't know what they did, if at all they did something. But the headline about RR doing something is misleading, since he hasn't really said anything, nor has been asked for his comments. On that point, the article is wrong. But the rest of the content of the article captures what we on BRF know quite well, so it is a good article in that regard. Hence I wanted to understand where JEM saar was coming from.

My understanding is that FF or anyone else in the US establishment will use all the levers they think they have to get what they need. In case of RR, he is not a US citizen, so I don't know if he really is one of the levers. I don't know anything about AS, so will not comment.

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Re: Intelligence and National Security Discussion

Postby RoyG » 13 May 2015 01:39

Amrita Ford was a really good friend of mine in college. I haven't spoken to her or her father in a while. I remember her family being really involved in the Krishna Movement and some sort of Vedic studies program. Her father harbored a general dislike of evangelicals. My roommate who also happened to be Kuldip Nayars grandson and her would normally organize South Asia Conferences on campus which would normally feature those loony progressive types, usually from Canada. Does her father Alfred have any influence in FF? I haven't found much on him using google search.

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Re: Intelligence and National Security Discussion

Postby Karan M » 13 May 2015 02:02

JE Menon wrote:^^Interesting title in the Sunday Guardian above. But what is in the content to suggest that the RB chief is a "saviour"... One can understand politically motivated articles. But this sort of transparently obvious stuff only makes one lose respect for the publication and the writer. Worse, it degrades a legitimate issue - which is that Ford Foundation is actively subverting Indian democracy.


JEM, its probably a shot across the bows to make sure that the FF attempt to contact RR and AS is well known and hence that attempt is put paid to and this is a calibrated move by insiders in the establishment. Nalapat is very well connected and has had the guts to take a stand and openly break open the TSD imbroglio as well. No other publication touched that but the Week and others confirmed it later. In short he is not a CT guy as we (at least I) used to think earlier (which is worrisome, given some of the stuff he has written is very alarming from the national security POV).

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Re: Intelligence and National Security Discussion

Postby ramana » 20 May 2015 21:20

X-Post
very good lessons learned from 1962 & 1965....
How 1962 and 1965 improved Indian Intelligence from MK Narayanan himself!!!!


http://www.outlookindia.com/printarticle.aspx?294329

Wartime Intelligence

To Win Before The War

After ’62 debacle, India’s intel agencies came of age in 1965 war

M.K. Narayanan


In the sixties of the last century, India was embroiled in two major conflicts—with China in 1962 and with Pakistan in 1965. India had not really anticipated a conflict with China, and was surprised by the development, for the government was engaged in diplomatic efforts to solve the border issue. The Indo-Pak war of 1965 was of a different mould, for it occurred in the context of several earlier skirmishes in Jammu & Kashmir. The results of the two conflicts also greatly differed. India had the worst of the exchanges (and outcomes) in the conflict with China, but vis-a-vis Paki­s­tan, India held the upper hand.

Also, in neither instance was India perceived as the aggressor. India’s history hardly records any instance of us being the aggressor. Hence, it has not been entirely possible to test the validity of Sun Zi’s pithy maxim, “Victorious warriors win first and then go to war, while defeated warriors go to war first, and then seek to win”.

The 1962 war did however provide India’s intelligence agencies with valuable lessons, including the danger of depending overly on intelligence provided by friendly western agencies, much of which seemed to confirm India’s own perceptions that China was unlikely to provoke an armed conflict. The agencies also learnt not to permit “atmospherics”—such as the perceived state of relations between any two countries—to override hard intelligence provided by field operatives. Further, how critically important it was to have strategic intelligence, and not depend excessively on tactical intelligence. Lack of information about China’s intentions brought home to India’s int­elligence agencies the “blind spot” in their intelligence-gathering efforts.


Intel warnings that the Ichogil canal would slow India’s tanks weren’t heeded by the army; this delayed Lahore advance.


When the India-Pakistan war broke out in 1965, India was much better prepared to take on the combatant country. Moreover, Pakistan had all along been perceived as a hostile and irrational neighbour. The bulk of India’s armed forces were, therefore, already positioned in the west/northwest of the country to blunt any possible Pakistani offensive. On the intelligence side as well, India was well prepared to deal with Pakistan. A series of skirmishes between April and September of 1965 had alerted intelligence agencies about Pakistan’s plans. They also had time to hone their skills, taking advantage of the improvements effected in the wake of the Sino-Indian conflict.

The 1965 India-Pakistan conflict involved two major Pakistani campai­gns—‘Operation Gibraltar’, designed to infiltrate its forces (as irregulars) into Jammu & Kashmir and provoke an insurgency; supplemented by ‘Opera­t­ion Grand Slam’, launched subseque­n­tly, aimed at cutting the overland route to Kashmir to prevent India from bringing its tanks into Kashmir. The latter witnessed large-scale casualties, and several fierce tank battles.

India’s intelligence agencies performed well during both campaigns. Incursions by Pakistan into the Rann of Kutch earlier on had provided some excellent leads into Pakistani thinking—including its future plans to carry out large-scale incursions across the ceasefire line. Consequently, when around 30,000 Pakistani soldiers crossed the LoC in August 1965 disguised as locals and headed to various points, Indian security forces could effect several captures. This, in turn, provided additional information on Pakistan’s plans.

The agencies had another piece of valuable intelligence—that Pakistan was feeling emboldened to launch a strike across the ceasefire line based on its wrong hypothesis that following the Sino-Indian conflict India’s military was unable, or unwilling, to tackle any quick military campaign in Kashmir. Pakistan’s military thus saw this as an excellent opportunity to strike. Anti­ci­pating Pakistan’s possible gambit, India could thus checkmate Operation Grand Slam. India’s decision to enlarge the theatre of conflict away from Kashmir into Pakistan Punjab and further to the south was largely dictated by advance information of Pakistan’s plans.
{Shows why intelligence reporting to PMO is very, very crucial. LBS decided to cross the IB based on IB intelligence. This is first time we are hearing this.}


Intelligence warnings that the Ichogil canal would act as a major barrier to India’s tanks were, however, not heeded by the army. This delayed the Indian army’s advance towards—and possible capture of—Lahore. It subsequently became a major point of contention—with the army contending that it had not been informed about the existence of the Ichogil canal. :eek:

Indian troops scour the Kashmir countryside looking for enemy guerrillas, Sept 6, 1965

Euphoria that Pakistan had been bested in the conflict was replaced after the war by recrimination about faulty intelligence provided by the Intelligence Bureau about the Ichogil canal. Consequently, there was a ren­ewed demand for restructuring and revitalising the intelligence system—a demand that had already been made following the Sino-Indian conflict of 1962, and been partially met. The military sought the creation of a separate external intelligence agency—one pos­s­ibly headed by a member of the armed forces—to better deal with conflicts of the 1962 and 1965 variety.

{Turf battles leading to creation of RAW}

Already, following the 1962 Sino-Indian conflict, substantial changes in intelligence capabilities had been effected. The charter of the Intelligence Bureau—a legacy of British rule in India whose responsibilities were limited to domestic intelligence, internal security and border issues—had greatly expanded. Extensive discussions among experts had preceded this step. The aim was to make the IB a modern agency, better suited to deal with the evolving nature of current conflicts.

Among the changes made was the creation of a directorate-general of security which comprised the Aviation Research Centre (ARC), the Indo-Tibetan Border Force (ITB) and the Special Security of the Border Force (SSB). The directorate-general of security was to function nominally under the Intelligence Bureau, and also report to its director.


The growing clamour for bifurcating external, internal intelligence functions reached a crescendo after 1965 war.


The ARC was the game-changer, possessing as it did highly sophisticated technical intelligence-gathering capabilities, with an aviation wing for special operations. The ITB was to operate as sentinels on the Sino-Indian border, comprising both a political and a security component. The SSB was to be a “stay-behind organisation”. Not ackn­ow­ledged was an extremely secretive body intended to carry out special operations across the border in Tibet.

The growing clamour for bifurcating external and internal intelligence functions reached a crescendo following the 1965 war. This coincided with a period when the general perception worldwide was to have separate organisations for external and internal intelligence. The rationale was that the basic requirements—including the nature of personnel for these agencies—differed. Also that all modern democratic nations had separate external and internal intelligence agencies.

The government conceded the dem­and in the face of a determined move in this direction. In 1968, the Intelligence Bureau split into the Intelligence Bureau for domestic and border intelligence; and the Research and Analysis Wing (RAW), exclusively intended to deal with foreign intelligence. The RAW duly incorporated the directorate-gen­eral of security set-up, and also incl­uded the external intelligence wing of the IB. R.N. Kao, an Intelligence Bureau veteran, was chosen to head and shape the new external agency.

The real benefit that came from est­a­b­lishing a separate agency was in the changed mindset. It included the realisation that a modern state required a state-of-the-art external intelligence agency, constantly striving to improve its technological and innovative skills to handle the evolving nature of threats.

The intelligence profession today has moved far beyond the techniques of intelligence set out in Sun Zi’s Bingfa and Kautilya’s Arthashastra. While human intelligence remains a vital component, intelligence is now heavily dependent on innovative technological methodologies. Capabilities in regard to intelligence collection, analysis and assessment have all grown exponentially. By far the biggest game-changer has been the internet. With the internet, information has become more dynamic, more interactive and more abundant, and also ubiquitously accessible.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

(M.K. Narayanan, a long IB hand, is a former national security advisor and ex-governor of West Bengal)





MKN garu thanks for the article......

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Re: Intelligence and National Security Discussion

Postby sum » 22 May 2015 06:38

^^ Posted earlier?
Return of the Superspy

No spymaster before him is so fabled for running meticulously conceived anti-terror operations deep inside enemy territory. He has personally trained agents in the dangerous art of exhaustive reconnaissance of insurgent hideouts in troubled Kashmir, at great risk to life and liberty. He has spent decades tirelessly tracking down suspected militants in the treacherous terrain of the North-East, infiltrating terrorist outfits in Punjab, conducting dangerous counter-insurgency missions, and, most importantly, acting as the father figure for India’s intelligence operatives working thousands of miles away from home running covert operations that no other Indian agency—perhaps with the exception of the Technical Services Division dismantled by General Bikram Singh— had dared to attempt in the past.

Ajit Kumar Doval, 69, former Director of Intelligence Bureau and now the new National Security Adviser in Narendra Modi’s government, is a revered figure in the secret world of Indian espionage. The ‘Master’ as a field agent had successfully broken the back of the North-East insurgency in 1986 in an undercover operation that gave him lasting fame—the defection of 6 out of 7 commanders of Laldenga’s outfit to the Indian cause, forcing the secessionist leader to sign the peace accord. In his heydays as an operative, Doval’s addiction to danger, instead of safely spending life behind a babu’s desk in the North Block, drafting and signing INT reports, marked him for greatness. As a young man, he was a thrill seeker—in the Eighties, the 1968 Kerala batch IPS officer, a master at disguise and embedded deep undercover in Pakistan for almost six years, pulled off daring coups that left ISI clueless. With years of experience in dealing with insurgency and terrorism in Kashmir, the new NSA is expected to shake up New Delhi’s moribund security establishments paralysed by UPA’s inaction and inter-organisational politics. Veteran intelligence analysts feel the Doval Effect will also impact the PMO’s aggressive foreign policy towards Pakistan and China.


An intelligence officer, who served under Doval, describes his informal style towards trusted agents engaged in field operations. They were encouraged to “live” their roles and could come to work dressed anyway they liked, with no questions asked.

“We were not required to dress like babus,” the officer recalls. “Operatives would come in kurta pajamas and lungis, wearing sandals. Anyone preparing for an op deep inside enemy territory was allowed to grow a beard ‘to get into the role.’ Others could hire maulvis to learn Urdu and Arabic. As part of their cover, some agents spent days learning shoe-making and later worked as mochis in targeted areas including foreign countries. Doval saab himself is expert in Urdu,” the officer adds proudly.


Intelligence agents admit that though India’s George Smiley hung up his boots in 2005, he was still unofficially in the field, directing covert missions.

No doubt acche din for the intel community for next 4 years atleast

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Re: Intelligence and National Security Discussion

Postby rkhanna » 22 May 2015 09:27

other Indian agency—perhaps with the exception of the Technical Services Division dismantled by General Bikram Singh— had dared to attempt in the past.



A bit of me still dies everytime I am reminded of that.

No doubt acche din for the intel community for next 4 years atleast


From what I hear things are already afoot. But there will be a ceiling. In our country the Great Game of Politics is still more paramount that National Security (irrespective of Govt in power)

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Re: Intelligence and National Security Discussion

Postby johneeG » 22 May 2015 09:50

vaibhav.n wrote:And we fret about Pakistan & China........... :evil:



According this article, Ford Foundation looks at Rajan as Saviour. Whether Rajan acts as a saviour of Ford Foundation or not is still not known. But, Ford Foundation supposedly has hopes from Rajan according to this article.

BTW, RBI wins battle to keep debt management role

----
Ex-RAW officer R.K.Yadav says that for 10 yrs their hands were tied by the Govt of UPA, otherwise they could have acted against Dawood.


Youtube Link

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Re: Intelligence and National Security Discussion

Postby sum » 22 May 2015 09:53

Quote:
other Indian agency—perhaps with the exception of the Technical Services Division dismantled by General Bikram Singh— had dared to attempt in the past.

A bit of me still dies everytime I am reminded of that.

I hope that the wrongs have been righted and the TSD would have already restarted under some other name ( though is no excuse for the mayhem in the last few years of UPA-2).

Isnt the current army chief also related to SFF? So am sure lots of things might have been kicked off

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Re: Intelligence and National Security Discussion

Postby Manish_P » 25 May 2015 13:20

Parachutes that entered Mumbai airport were remote-controlled

The five unmanned objects spotted over the Mumbai airport airspace on Saturday evening were remote or radio-controlled parachutes, sources from at least three different agencies have told Mirror. Sources said the Prime Minister's Office has asked multiple agencies -including the Indian Air Force, the Navy, the Intelligence Bureau, Central Industrial Security Force and the Mumbai police -to investigate the incident and submit a report.


They said the five chutes were clearly seen moving south to north at a time strong winds were blowing from the perpendicular south-westerly direction. A top source in the IAF said an independent assessment of available facts prima-facie showed that the objects were radio controlled and appeared to be bigger than hobby parachutes available online and smaller than those used by professional jumpers.


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Re: Intelligence and National Security Discussion

Postby kmkraoind » 26 May 2015 16:52

‘India doesn’t keep 13 lakh strong Army to preach peace’

He further added that the word “neutralise” does not mean only killing but also making terrorists switch the sides and surrendering.
....
“Basically, if I have to defend my country, I will go to any extent…Whatever is required to be done will be done. That is the basic motto which one should have.

“If someone harms my country, I have to take pro-active action….The army’s basic purpose is that if anyone attacks the country, attack him back. Pay him back in the same coin,” Parrikar asserted, underlining that one does not keep 13 lakh strong Army to “preach peace”.


India really got a "Raksha Mantri." For the past 10 years, we have "Raksha Mantri" who represented just like a noun, now we have "Raksha Mantri" who is mere noun anymore, he is verb also.

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Re: Intelligence and National Security Discussion

Postby ramana » 26 May 2015 19:51




Note in the side box the different organizations and their bias in their conclusions.

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Re: Intelligence and National Security Discussion

Postby rkhanna » 29 May 2015 12:22

Delete

Philip
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Re: Intelligence and National Security Discussion

Postby Philip » 01 Jun 2015 18:27

The ramifications of the intel report that the Pakis are to hand over N-weapons to the Saudis is the most alarming development in the world today.ISIS has also been making noises about a Paki supply of nukes.not coincidence to some observers,but a clever gambit being played by the Saudis who also support ISIS covertly. This is going to have a profound effect upon India's nuclear strategic doctrine and we have to factor in an N-capable Saudi too as a potential enemy.

http://rt.com/news/259565-saudi-pakista ... r-weapons/
S. Arabia calls in off-the-shelf nuke option with Pakistan – report
May 18, 2015
At the prospect of the international community’s nuclear deal with Iran, Saudi Arabia has reportedly taken a decision to call in an old favor from Pakistan and get some of its nuclear weapons.

Saudi Arabia is widely believed to have bankrolled the Pakistani nuclear weapons program. In exchange, Riyadh reportedly expects Islamabad to provide missiles in times of trouble to defend the kingdom.

“For the Saudis the moment has come,” a former American defense official told The Sunday Times newspaper. “There has been a longstanding agreement in place with the Pakistanis, and the House of Saud has now made the strategic decision to move forward.”

According to the report, no actual transfer of weapons has taken place yet, but “the Saudis mean what they say and they will do what they say,” the source reportedly said.

The report comes a month ahead of a meeting between Tehran and the P5+1 group to finalize a deal, which would lift sanctions from Iran in exchange for making its nuclear program more transparent and restricted. Key US allies in the Middle East, Israel and Saudi Arabia, are objecting to the deal, saying it would ultimately allow Iran to acquire nuclear weapons.

Reports of Saudi Arabia getting nukes aren’t new. In November 2013, BBC’s Newsnight reported on the alleged nuclear sharing agreement between Saudi Arabia and Pakistan.

The program cited Amos Yadlin, a former head of Israeli military intelligence, telling a conference in Sweden that if Iran got the bomb, "the Saudis will not wait one month. They already paid for the bomb, they will go to Pakistan and bring what they need to bring."

The speculation came just as nuclear talks between Iran and the P5+1 were showing progress in Geneva.
​China rapidly upgrading nuclear arsenal with MIRVed missiles – report

Some experts, however, doubted that the supposed nuclear arming by Saudi Arabia was as simple as calling in the debt.

“I doubt that Pakistan is ready to send nuclear weapons to Saudi Arabia,” Mark Fitzpatrick, a non-proliferation expert with the International Institute for Strategic Studies, told the Guardian at the time.

“Pakistan's reputation suffered greatly the last time they assisted other countries with nuclear weapons technology (i.e., the sales by [Pakistani nuclear project chief] A.Q. Khan, with some governmental support or at least acquiescence, to North Korea, Iran and Libya). Pakistan knows that transferring nuclear weapons to Saudi Arabia would also incur huge diplomatic and reputational costs.”

The potential of a nuclear arms race in the Middle East triggered by the Iran deal is one of the argument critics use to denigrate the talks. At the moment there are several countries in the region known or believed to have nuclear weapons.

Pakistan has a stockpile of 80 to 120 warheads designed to counterbalance India’s arsenal, while Turkey hosts NATO nuclear weapons. Israel is said to have a stockpile, although it has never officially confirmed this.

Several other nations have civilian nuclear programs, including Iran, Egypt and UAE

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Re: Intelligence and National Security Discussion

Postby RoyG » 01 Jun 2015 19:02

I'm actually more worried about the Iranians. They have been investing in building up expertise and infra for quite some time. Saudis are simply buying the end result. You can't become a nuclear power this way. With blowback from IS already happening, I doubt the country will remain unified anyway.

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Re: Intelligence and National Security Discussion

Postby vinod » 03 Jun 2015 12:42

India suspects British backing of Pak-Afghan intel cooperation
Indrani Bagchi,TNN | Jun 3, 2015, 06.43 AM IST

NEW DELHI: India suspects British involvement in putting together a controversial agreement between Pakistan's ISI and Afghan intelligence service, NDS. India's annoyance could impact a possible visit to the UK by Prime Minister Narendra Modi, tentatively being planned for the end of the year.


While the MoU itself has not yet been made public, a couple of clauses which have leaked out have added to India's anger. One of them is that each spy service would "refrain" from criticizing the other in public, among other things. More important, they agreed to "refrain" from cooperating with "hostile foreign agencies". For years, that was Afghan description for ISI itself. Post the agreement, the "foreign agencies" said sources, indicate India.

Pakistan, sources said, has already started a steady flow of reports to Afghanistan about alleged Indian "hand" in recent violent incidents, many of which though bearing clear hand of the Taliban, have not been claimed by anybody. This is in addition to a sustained media campaign within Pakistan blaming the Indian agency, RAW, for blasts and killings in the country. Over the past decade, India has built significant ties with Afghanistan's security establishment, which the MoU seeks to actively destroy, Indians believe.

A second inclusion is even more curious - asking Afghanistan to present Pakistan and the ISI in a "favourable" light. Sources here said countries routinely engage in intelligence cooperation with other countries, but they don't involve MoUs, nor do they involve a public relations activity.

If implemented, India fears it would mean that the NDS would have to engage in domestic political activity in the same way the ISI does inside Pakistan. Many in the security establishment here are joining the dots - and coming up with some uncomfortable conclusions that much of this is intended to target India itself.

The question Indians are asking is what does the UK or other "external" forces hope to get out of this exercise? The MoU has created a popular backlash inside Afghanistan forcing President Ashraf Ghani to backtrack after it became public that even the NDS chief had opposed it. It has lowered his standing both inside Pakistan (because he will not be able to deliver on the MoU) and inside his own country. It has also brought his predecessor Hamid Karzai out of a self-imposed silence to become a powerful opposition voice.


As a damage control, Ghani took recourse to some hardline rhetoric against Pakistan, by accusing it of waging an "undeclared war". "The Taliban have declared their spring offensive, massive terrorist attacks have been carried out," he said in a letter released to the media at an international security conference in Doha. "The public is asking whether there has been any return from President Ghani's efforts to secure enduring peace and cooperation with Pakistan?" the letter states.

While publicly India has maintained a stoic front, New Delhi has privately been very critical of the Afghans for allowing themselves to be conned by Pakistan in this manner. Modi met Karzai, who stopped by New Delhi en route to Beijing for a CICA conference last week, indicating India's continued support for him, and even a silent endorsement of his criticism of Ghani's actions.

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Re: Intelligence and National Security Discussion

Postby JE Menon » 03 Jun 2015 18:40

>>For the past 10 years, we have "Raksha Mantri" who represented just like a noun, now we have "Raksha Mantri" who is mere noun anymore, he is verb also.

As far as Pakistan is concerned, after another year or so we will have a Rakshasa Mantri.

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Re: Intelligence and National Security Discussion

Postby chetak » 04 Jun 2015 00:13

vinod wrote:India suspects British backing of Pak-Afghan intel cooperation
Indrani Bagchi,TNN | Jun 3, 2015, 06.43 AM IST

NEW DELHI: India suspects British involvement in putting together a controversial agreement between Pakistan's ISI and Afghan intelligence service, NDS. India's annoyance could impact a possible visit to the UK by Prime Minister Narendra Modi, tentatively being planned for the end of the year.


While the MoU itself has not yet been made public, a couple of clauses which have leaked out have added to India's anger. One of them is that each spy service would "refrain" from criticizing the other in public, among other things. More important, they agreed to "refrain" from cooperating with "hostile foreign agencies". For years, that was Afghan description for ISI itself. Post the agreement, the "foreign agencies" said sources, indicate India.

Pakistan, sources said, has already started a steady flow of reports to Afghanistan about alleged Indian "hand" in recent violent incidents, many of which though bearing clear hand of the Taliban, have not been claimed by anybody. This is in addition to a sustained media campaign within Pakistan blaming the Indian agency, RAW, for blasts and killings in the country. Over the past decade, India has built significant ties with Afghanistan's security establishment, which the MoU seeks to actively destroy, Indians believe.

A second inclusion is even more curious - asking Afghanistan to present Pakistan and the ISI in a "favourable" light. Sources here said countries routinely engage in intelligence cooperation with other countries, but they don't involve MoUs, nor do they involve a public relations activity.

If implemented, India fears it would mean that the NDS would have to engage in domestic political activity in the same way the ISI does inside Pakistan. Many in the security establishment here are joining the dots - and coming up with some uncomfortable conclusions that much of this is intended to target India itself.

The question Indians are asking is what does the UK or other "external" forces hope to get out of this exercise? The MoU has created a popular backlash inside Afghanistan forcing President Ashraf Ghani to backtrack after it became public that even the NDS chief had opposed it. It has lowered his standing both inside Pakistan (because he will not be able to deliver on the MoU) and inside his own country. It has also brought his predecessor Hamid Karzai out of a self-imposed silence to become a powerful opposition voice.


As a damage control, Ghani took recourse to some hardline rhetoric against Pakistan, by accusing it of waging an "undeclared war". "The Taliban have declared their spring offensive, massive terrorist attacks have been carried out," he said in a letter released to the media at an international security conference in Doha. "The public is asking whether there has been any return from President Ghani's efforts to secure enduring peace and cooperation with Pakistan?" the letter states.

While publicly India has maintained a stoic front, New Delhi has privately been very critical of the Afghans for allowing themselves to be conned by Pakistan in this manner. Modi met Karzai, who stopped by New Delhi en route to Beijing for a CICA conference last week, indicating India's continued support for him, and even a silent endorsement of his criticism of Ghani's actions.


This is the reason why NaMo has not visited the UK. The britshits are beside themselves, cajoling him to come over. It looks like India has taken very serious offence. the britshit b@stards are back to their old tricks once again with a modified version of the old great game

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Re: Intelligence and National Security Discussion

Postby Paul » 05 Jun 2015 00:06

Madhav Nalapat is the guy to watch and read. Only reason for following NewsX and Sunday Guardian.

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Re: Intelligence and National Security Discussion

Postby Karan M » 17 Jun 2015 18:24

Interesting - had never heard of this guy before



https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yuri_Bezmenov

Yuri Alexandrovich Bezmenov (Russian: Юрий Александрович Безменов, also known as Tomas David Schuman; 1939 – 1993[1]) was a journalist for RIA Novosti and a former PGU KGB informant from the Soviet Union who defected to Canada.

After being assigned to a station in India, Bezmenov eventually grew to love the people and the culture of India, but at the same time, he began to resent the KGB-sanctioned oppression of intellectuals who dissented from Moscow's policies. He decided to defect to the West. Bezmenov is best remembered for his pro-American, anticommunist lectures and books from the 1980s.

Rapid promotion followed, and Bezmenov was once again assigned to Bila in 1969, this time as a Soviet press-officer and a public relations agent for the KGB. He continued Novosti's propaganda effects in New Delhi, working out of the Soviet embassy. Bezmenov was directed to slowly but surely establish the Soviet sphere of influence in India. In the same year, a secret directive of the Central Committee opened a new secret department in all embassies of the Soviet Union around the world, titled the "Research and Counter-Propaganda Group." Bezmenov became a deputy chief of that department, which gathered intelligence from sources like Indian informers and agents, regarding most every influential or politically significant citizen of India.

Those who favored the Soviets' expansionist policy into India were promoted to higher positions of power, affluence, and prestige through various KGB/Novosti operations.[further explanation needed] Those who refused to cooperate with Soviet plans were the target of character assassination in the media and press.

Bezmenov stated that he was also instructed not to waste time with idealistic leftists, as these would become disillusioned, bitter, and adversarial when they realized the true nature of Soviet Communism. To his surprise, he discovered that many such were listed for execution once the Soviets achieved control. Instead, Bezmenov was encouraged to recruit the persons in large circulation, established conservative media, rich filmmakers, intellectuals in academic circles, and cynical, ego-centric people who lacked moral principles.

During that period, increasingly seeing the Soviet system as insidious and ruthless, Bezmenov began careful planning to defect

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Re: Intelligence and National Security Discussion

Postby rkhanna » 17 Jun 2015 21:18

^^ Most interesting
Has to be read along with this

The Special Relationship with India & The Indian National Congress
http://mitrokhinarchiveii.blogspot.be/

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Re: Intelligence and National Security Discussion

Postby Sachin » 18 Jun 2015 09:45

^^ Add to that the special relation ship of KGB with Communist Party of India (CPI) as well.

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Re: Intelligence and National Security Discussion

Postby JE Menon » 20 Jun 2015 15:21

I have posted the entire interview of Bezmenov, somewhere on BRF, probably in the same thread. It's a long one, and gives some interesting insights into their way of looking at things.

Here is the link to the full interview:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y3qkf3bajd4

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Re: Intelligence and National Security Discussion

Postby srin » 20 Jun 2015 15:46

I watched the interview and I couldn't understand that he defected because USSR was supporting liberation of East Pakistan and it felt morally wrong for him. For a KGB guy, it seemed remarkable that he couldn't understand that it was in India's interest to do so (esp when he says he fell in love with India).

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Re: Intelligence and National Security Discussion

Postby svinayak » 21 Jun 2015 04:18

srin wrote:I watched the interview and I couldn't understand that he defected because USSR was supporting liberation of East Pakistan and it felt morally wrong for him. For a KGB guy, it seemed remarkable that he couldn't understand that it was in India's interest to do so (esp when he says he fell in love with India).

It is a fraud and all these revelations should be taken with suspicion

There was a behind the scene agreement between US, SU and PRC on India-Pak and 1971

Uncle was most interested in the India SU agreement which really changed the balance in the Asia Pacific and pivot movement for SU in Asia Pacific. Uncle has still not recovered from this geo political move. Uncle recruited SU specialists who were in India.

PRC was pacified with a UNSC seat and a larger role in the global theator. PRC took it to next level by transferring the nuk to TSP and creating a more complex situation in Asia Pacific

US asian pivot is trying to rebalance the the rise of China with its own alliances

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Re: Intelligence and National Security Discussion

Postby IndraD » 22 Jun 2015 22:39

Techies, MBAs, doctors join IB to become 'spies'

Information gathered by TOI from reliable sources in the government reveals that young boys and girls, from highly educated backgrounds — MBAs, advocates, IT specialists having qualifications like BE, BTech and MTech, accountants, science graduates and PGs, doctors and even pharma engineers — are joining IB to become "spies"

http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/indi ... 763072.cms

It is interesting that maximum fresh recruits have come from Telangana, why?

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Re: Intelligence and National Security Discussion

Postby Rahul M » 22 Jun 2015 22:49

new entrants would be spread out over multiple batches. article talks of one such batch. some have more representation from a state than others. nothing much to read into.

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Re: Intelligence and National Security Discussion

Postby krisna » 22 Jun 2015 23:09

IndraD wrote:Techies, MBAs, doctors join IB to become 'spies'

Information gathered by TOI from reliable sources in the government reveals that young boys and girls, from highly educated backgrounds — MBAs, advocates, IT specialists having qualifications like BE, BTech and MTech, accountants, science graduates and PGs, doctors and even pharma engineers — are joining IB to become "spies"

http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/indi ... 763072.cms

It is interesting that maximum fresh recruits have come from Telangana, why?


a selected quotes
The new breed has more knowledge about national and international issues, they are better aware of technology, and they read a lot and have command over several languages.

Subsequently, ACIOs now get good pay apart from other facilities. The IB has also started giving opportunity to new ACIOs to be posted in a SIB, which is either in their home state or close to it as being a local, an officer understands the issues and communities better and he/she can mix with locals easily and share 'daily reports' more easily.

The ACIOs can reach up to the post of superintendent of police in the IB while serving during their lifetime, which rarely happens in police.

A senior home ministry official confirmed that "the Narendra Modi government has put more focus on better intelligence officers on the ground and providing everything they need so that country has a safe environment".

Though there is still a massive shortage of intelligence officers in India, efforts are on to woo youngsters to come forward to join the IB, so that it becomes among the best agencies in Asia.

According to a reply in Parliament in 2013 filed by then minister of state for home RPN Singh, there was a shortage of around 8,000 officers in intelligence services of the country.

He had said that IB had 18,795 personnel on its rolls, against a sanctioned strength of 26,867 — a shortfall of over 30%. Senior home ministry officials told TOI that the problem still persists but youngsters are now showing more interest in joining IB.



Am glad that NSA is taking steps to address this burning issue. In his one of his talks on youtube(taken down later) he specifically mentions about ~30% shortage in personel, upa govt did not take steps to stop this attriton. and many others.

Remember Shiv and others? saying it does not matter who rules shiitistan, Indians are more than ready to send them to their jannat if they enter India to create mayhem. it is the political will that is lacking. NSA has been saying this for long time.
Last edited by krisna on 22 Jun 2015 23:16, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Intelligence and National Security Discussion

Postby ramana » 22 Jun 2015 23:14

IndraD, A writer Manohar Malgoankar in one of his books, once wondered why Army intelligence has so many Telugu folks since Independence! He thinks they have a knack for getting information and unquenchable thirst for information.

--
About article, looks like some one from IB was promoting it. usually they are silent.

The slide/box has many inaccuracies about IB history.
It was founded as Col Sleeman's anti-Thug department.

Also I posted an article from Outlook where MKN looks at the 1962 issue and it was a convenient time to bifurcate the IB due to world wide trends of separating internal and external agencies.

My view is unfortunately the shadow of 1962 was cast on IB as Mullick was close to Nehruji.

---

Dileep Time for new story.

After end of Cold War and rise of jihadism, non -state actors, the threats are more internal than external. It is good to periodically relook the organizations to see if they are well setup to combat the threats.

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Re: Intelligence and National Security Discussion

Postby Rahul M » 23 Jun 2015 00:03

the bureau traces its history to the 1887 org, not sleeman's anti-thugee dept.

krisna ji, the dept's recruitment was stopped during NDA-1 era, because the leaders were doubtful about its loyalty due to longtime cong connections. it was restarted post 26/11 in upa era itself.

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Re: Intelligence and National Security Discussion

Postby ramana » 23 Jun 2015 00:17

MN Dhar traces it to Col Sleeman. I might be wrong.

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Re: Intelligence and National Security Discussion

Postby Rahul M » 23 Jun 2015 00:25

MK Dhar you mean ? sleeman's unit is considered a precursor not the start. it completed 125 years in 2012.

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Re: Intelligence and National Security Discussion

Postby Avinash R » 23 Jun 2015 11:06

IndraD wrote:Techies, MBAs, doctors join IB to become 'spies'

Information gathered by TOI from reliable sources in the government reveals that young boys and girls, from highly educated backgrounds — MBAs, advocates, IT specialists having qualifications like BE, BTech and MTech, accountants, science graduates and PGs, doctors and even pharma engineers — are joining IB to become "spies"

http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/indi ... 763072.cms

It is interesting that maximum fresh recruits have come from Telangana, why?


becoz of Hyderabad, the place where IT BT people live.

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Re: Intelligence and National Security Discussion

Postby Mukesh.Kumar » 24 Jun 2015 14:02

Black Tiger.

How true is this story. it's this source credible?

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Re: Intelligence and National Security Discussion

Postby Yashu » 25 Jun 2015 22:59

Mukesh.Kumar wrote:Black Tiger.

How true is this story. it's this source credible?

It is true story I read it in a Hindi magazine many years back while he was still alive, with many photograph including his letter to his mother where his family appealed to secure his release with Government of India

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Re: Intelligence and National Security Discussion

Postby krishna_krishna » 26 Jun 2015 00:04

Absolutely true, very interesting story. Read m k dhar's book mission to Pakistan. Every detail although names changed and in the end he twists the story that he escapes but in real caught

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Re: Intelligence and National Security Discussion

Postby Vipul » 26 Jun 2015 02:24

How Saudi funded Rs 1,700 crore for Wahabi influence in India.

Last year violence broke out near a Mosque in Bommanhalli, Bengaluru and what was being termed as minor tiff was in fact a case of some youth trying to impose the Wahabi preachings. When the seniors in the administration of the Mosque opposed these youth, there were clashes in which 4 persons were injured seriously.

In another incident that occurred in Maharashtra, Wahabi scholars bribed some members of the Mosque and attempted taking over the administration. While the Muslims in many states have opposed the Wahabis tooth and nail, success for the Saudi Arabia sponsored Wahabis was highest in Kerala.

These are instances that could be read with the recent Wikileaks documents which suggested that Saudi Arabia is worried about the growing influence of Iran over India and the outreach by Tehran to the Shia community was worrying. The Muslim World League also requests Saudi Arabia to establish Wahabi centres in India to counter the threat from the Shias. How Saudi Arabia set up Wahabi centres in India?

Saudi Arabia realizes that the Shias in India are a threat to the dominance of the Sunni community. India houses a large number of Shias and this according to the Saudis gives Iran an upper hand in India. However for Saudi the Sunnis in India have not followed the violent Wahabi style of Islam and there are many seniors in the Muslim community who will not allow that to happen.

The only way Saudi could instill a radical thinking in the minds of the Sunni Muslims in India was by the establishment of Wahabi centres. The Wahabis are an extremely orthodox set of Sunni Muslims. There are several Muslims in India who subscribe to the Wahabi view. As a first step, Saudi sent in several Wahabi preachers into India an Intelligence Bureau report states.

The years 2011 to 2013 alone saw a record number of 25,000 Wahabis coming to India and conducting seminars in various parts of the country. With them they brought in Rs 1700 crore in several installments and used it to propogate the Wahabi style of Islam.

Wahabism found success in Kerala: The drive by Saudi to impose the Wahabi culture in India has not been entirely a success. The highest rate of success that they have witnessed is in Kerala.

This is a lot to do with the fact that there is a large population of people who go to Saudi in search of employment. Many in Kerala have welcomed with open arms the Wahabi style of preaching and this has let the Saudi controlled lot take control over nearly 75 Mosques in the state.

The newer Mosques that are coming up in Kerala are also constructed in the manner in which they done in Saudi Arabia. This is just one small indicator of how much people of the state are willing to follow the radical style preached by the Wahabi scholars. Moreover the inflow of funds into Kerala from Saudi is the highest when compared to any other part of the country.

It was in Kerala that one got to see posters mourning the death of Osama Bin Laden and also a prayer for Ajmal Kasab after he was hanged. Intelligence Bureau officials tell OneIndia that a large number of youth appear to be attracted to this radical style of Islam, but also add that there are some elders who are trying to oppose it. The Wahabi rule book in India:

Each time a Wahabi preacher comes to India, he comes in with a rule book. What they intend to do is ensure that the rule book is circulated in the Mosques.

However when the administration of the Mosques have opposed this it has led to clashes. The rule book has a set of guidelines which need to be ahdhered to failing which the horrific Sharia law would be imposed. Here are a couple of guidelines that have been set as per the Wahabi rule book:
• Shrines shall be forbidden
• Every Muslim woman should wear purdah or be subject to severe punishment
• Men have to compulsorily grow beards • Women should not be allowed to work. Exception can be made only if the family is in need.
• Men and women should not mingle together in public.
• No weeping loudly at funerals.
• Abide by the Shariat law; every offence committed shall be punishable under this law.
• All men should wear trousers which are above their ankles.
• No laughing loudly or listening to music; no dancing or watching television.

Wahabi universities being set up:
The Saudi sponsored Wahabis are aiming to set up their own education system in India as well. Out of the total Rs 1700 crore that has been earmarked for the cause, Rs 800 crore is being spent on setting up Universities in different parts of the country. One such university was seen in Andhra Pradesh as well. Over all they propose to set up 4 such universities which will only cater to Wahabi preachings. With the take over of the existing Mosques becoming extremely difficult, they have earmarked Rs 400 crore to set up 40 Mosques adhering only to Wahabi preachings in different parts of the country. A sum of Rs 300 has been been earmarked to set up Madrasas while the remaining Rs 200 crore has been set aside as miscellaneous costs which also would include bribes to paid off to Mosque authorities as was seen in Maharashtra.

The birth of the Jamiat Ahl-e-Hadith:
The birth of the Jamiat Ahl-e-Hadith took place in India in the state of Jammu and Kashmir. As a first step they wielded their influence on the various Mosques which began preaching the Sharia law as mandated by the Wahabis.

The next stop was Maharashtra and Uttar Pradesh following which they began wielding influence heavily in Kerala. The Jamiat Ahl-e-Hadith was the umbrella body which oversaw the flow of Wahabi scholars into India. The same outfit is also making efforts to spread their ideology into Andhra Pradesh, Uttar Pradesh, Bihar and until last year Karantaka.

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Re: Intelligence and National Security Discussion

Postby Karan M » 26 Jun 2015 03:28

If Muslims do all this and fall prey to Wahabism, they will be the biggest fools and Hindus and Christians will rise in power and influence 10x. Muslims will become more and more ghettoized and the left lib establishment which seeks to act as their spokesperson will decline in influence as this radicalism will make them a square target for law enforcement.


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