Indian Missiles and Munitions Discussion - June'14

ramdas · Post by **ramdas** » 10 Jul 2015 07:28

Austin, Great news. Mithai is in order.
AVI development Authority to Proceed in work.

Dose'nt the Tribune article quote Dr. Christopher as saying that A-6 is not sanctioned yet, and that they still need to press the case for such a missile before GoI ? Hope GoI sanctions it.

Karthik S · Post by **Karthik S** » 10 Jul 2015 07:37

wiki mentions 6k SLBM, any new projects beyond K-4 as of now?

member_27581 · Post by **member_27581** » 10 Jul 2015 08:56

ramana wrote:BTW a hidden nugget is the A-VI will have lighter warhead than the A-V!!!!

Isn't he slightly ambiguous regarding the pay load for Agni VI. He mentions that we can have a 10K missile with reduced payload and they need to bring it up to the government. For Agni VI he only mentions it is on drawing board. Could it be possible that he's talking about two different missiles?

Austin wrote:Dr S. Chirstopher, Director General of DRDO and Secretary Research and Development, told The Tribune on Thursday that India can have a missile that can travel a distance of 10,000 km, albeit with a smaller warhead than the AGNI-V.

“We have to now present our case to the government for explaining the need for such a missile”, Dr Chirstopher said while accepting that AGNI-VI is on the drawing board. This will be an Inter-Continental Ballatic Missile (ICBM) like AGNI-V.

shiv · Post by **shiv** » 10 Jul 2015 09:25

Christopher says We need to "present our case to the government for explaining the need for such a missile”

He is talking about the "need for such a missile"

Why would India need a missile with a long range and a lighter warhead? Is there now a new class of lighter warhead designed for sub?

Singha · Post by **Singha** » 10 Jul 2015 09:55

a 10000km all-composite-stages stubby missile with 3 MIRV payload would be the ideal SLBM for our subs to use the full width and depth of the vast IOR down to antarctica, making it tough to locate. place is 2-3 miles deep with no chokepoints where SOSUS arrays can be laid even by the big khan. only a few volcanic tiny islands unsuitable for anything but albatross and penguins are there in the deep south.....a true dhoti shiver place with no landmark anywhere for 1000s of km.....ideal place for SSBNs to sortie out and disappear and drift for months.

but as a starting point a 5000km weapon is acceptable and we can plan for bigger subs and humps thereafter.

below that given the size and depth of our main adversary is unrealistic for deterrence.

Austin · Post by **Austin** » 11 Jul 2015 12:23

NDTV has interview with DRDO Chief speaks about A-5 and A-6 program

JE Menon · Post by **JE Menon** » 11 Jul 2015 14:16

Link pls if possible

Austin · Post by **Austin** » 11 Jul 2015 14:56

JE Menon wrote:Link pls if possible

They havent put it on their website yet saw it on their news channel

SSridhar · Post by **SSridhar** » 11 Jul 2015 16:30

Karan M wrote:Thank goodness they are not planning A-7, then A-8, then A-9, and then A-10. With the previous GOI, looks like this incrementalism was the only way forward.

In fact, the earlier talk was A-6 being ~6000 Km range. It was in April this year that DRDO indicated that A-6 would be "between 8000 & 12000 Kms".

On the question of lighter warheads, it will be because it will befinitely be MIRVd. At that distance, it had better be.

SSridhar · Post by **SSridhar** » 11 Jul 2015 16:35

shiv wrote:Why would India need a missile with a long range and a lighter warhead? Is there now a new class of lighter warhead designed for sub?

Three months back DRDO said that the A-6 would be both land & sub-based. It is likely to be tested by 2017.

member_28108 · Post by **member_28108** » 11 Jul 2015 16:37

shiv wrote:Christopher says We need to "present our case to the government for explaining the need for such a missile”

He is talking about the "need for such a missile"

Why would India need a missile with a long range and a lighter warhead? Is there now a new class of lighter warhead designed for sub?

India needs a longer range and lighter warhead for two reasons - one for land based devices they should be able to launch from Kanyakumari to the poles and for a submarine based missile from the antarctic to the north pole

Karthik S · Post by **Karthik S** » 11 Jul 2015 17:13

SSridhar wrote:Three months back DRDO said that the A-6 would be both land & sub-based. It is likely to be tested by 2017.

Thank god they are developing 10k wala for Subs instead of 1k incremental range missiles, hope they can test and then arm aridhman with A-6.

member_28108 · Post by **member_28108** » 11 Jul 2015 17:51

Is this announcement got a link to something related to the nondelivery of the AMCA ?

Vipul · Post by **Vipul** » 11 Jul 2015 21:02

These evil yindoo banias causing confusion onlee. Eralier there were report of A-VI being missile of 6000 KM range with 4 warheads.

ramana · Post by **ramana** » 11 Jul 2015 22:10

that has fallen by wayside. Read DRDO chief's statement. Its 10k km wala. Incremental designs are put aside.
BTW its not in vacuum. Response to request from uperwala.

Austin · Post by **Austin** » 11 Jul 2015 22:18

The 10K plus range is a must for any where hit capability in the world , its time we have such capability and not limit our self to China or Pakistan. ITs part of our strategy deterrence autonomy and independence in FP.

Hopefully Modi does not fall prey to Western NPA's and delays the A-6 program

ramdas · Post by **ramdas** » 12 Jul 2015 00:10

Ramanaji,

Are you also saying that they have steeped back from pursuing MIRVs ? After all, the 10K wall was supposed to have a smaller warhead then A5.

RoyG · Post by **RoyG** » 12 Jul 2015 01:37

ramdas wrote:Ramanaji,

Are you also saying that they have steeped back from pursuing MIRVs ? After all, the 10K wall was supposed to have a smaller warhead then A5.

We'll be fielding two varieties: Dome shaped encasing 3-10 warheads, HBGV with a larger Kt yield to blitz their ABM defenses.

ramana · Post by **ramana** » 12 Jul 2015 06:34

ramdas I am not saying anything.
All I am saying is DRDO feels its time for a 10K Km vehicle.
All azimuth all range capability.

A lot of geopolitical stuff is connected for this decision.

NaMo has been in power for 1 year and can see things we don't for various reasons.
Frankly I didn't get logic of 1K km incremental capability in the Agni series.

ramdas · Post by **ramdas** » 12 Jul 2015 08:08

Ramanaji,

A project for a 10K km missile will be reality only if GoI sanctions it. Same for a MIRVed missile. Therefore, we shouldn't celebrate these things until it is clear that these projects are sanctioned.

Karan M · Post by **Karan M** » 12 Jul 2015 17:02

SSridhar wrote:
Karan M wrote:Thank goodness they are not planning A-7, then A-8, then A-9, and then A-10. With the previous GOI, looks like this incrementalism was the only way forward.
In fact, the earlier talk was A-6 being ~6000 Km range. It was in April this year that DRDO indicated that A-6 would be "between 8000 & 12000 Kms".

On the question of lighter warheads, it will be because it will befinitely be MIRVd. At that distance, it had better be.

You said it! It was worrisome to see the proliferation of "Agnis" with no clear differentiation between their profiles. Best we standardize on a handful of missiles in the strategic space and mass produce them (and their payloads).

Same applies for the other missiles. Hopefully GOI has cleared the Missile Autonomy Plan & we'll see a handful of tactical missiles, with robust performance, made in the thousands & which will end up making a tangible war winning difference!!

symontk · Post by **symontk** » 13 Jul 2015 09:34

Helina tested

http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/city ... 047863.cms

SSridhar · Post by **SSridhar** » 13 Jul 2015 13:07

On HeliNa

"Two of the trials were successful in hitting the target, while one reportedly missed the target," defence sources said.

The missile was aimed at hitting targets at varied distances of upto 7 km.

"Though, the observations are yet to be studied and analysed but this test has brought us closure to the objective certainly," the sources said.

Read more at:
http://economictimes.indiatimes.com/art ... aign=cppst

SSridhar · Post by **SSridhar** » 13 Jul 2015 13:15

In the June 2014 test of two rounds, one fired at noon failed and the other in the afternoon succeeded.

Sanjay · Post by **Sanjay** » 13 Jul 2015 13:18

Did anyone find the video of the full NDTV interview with S. Christopher ? Thanks

Aditya_V · Post by **Aditya_V** » 13 Jul 2015 13:29

Any chance Helina can be fitted onto fighters for Anti/Tank, Anti Armour role from a slightly longer distance with lock on after launch. Would be great if NAG and its seeker evolve into

1. Namica and other vehicle launched Nags
2. A 20-25KG shoulder fired NAG for 2.5Km range against Armour, Bunkers along the LOC
3. Helicopter Launched Namica
4. Fighter launched Namica with greater stand off range.

And with the IIR seeker tech learned develop Desi IIR AAM, SAM, next gen Trishul/ Akash etc.

But for all that orders are urgently required especially from the Army, not waiting for Namica-II, Namica- III etc.

Singha · Post by **Singha** » 13 Jul 2015 14:34

its time to think outside the box ... with helina attaining 7km range, with minimum fwd velocity or hover mode, it will attain atleast 6km range from a ground launcher.

this means we do not need the trainable box launcher which needs servo motors etc and we can separate the optical/thermal targeting pod from the launcher as follows.

take a BMP2 chassis. remove the gun and its ammo.
the gunner now becomes the Nag gunner.
give him the necessary sighting system for it.

the 8 passenger space in the back be replaced with a drop in pack of 16 vertically launched Nags in units of 2x2=4 for easy storage and movement. a reload vehicle and small crane would cart around the prefilled nags and take away empty cells.

the targeting info would be sent to the right nag moments before shooting , tell it which way to turn and use its sensor ..... kind of like a AAM going LOAL.

Philip · Post by **Philip** » 13 Jul 2015 17:12

The report said that in the intense heat (the noon "meal"?), the missile's range was only 2.5km. Could that be the missile that failed?

Finally news of a 10K range ICBM meant for sub launch too! This would mean that a much larger SSBN is on the drawing boards as hinted in an earlier report about the follow on N-subs to the first ATV (Arihant) series. With this range,our SSBNs could secrete themselves in the farthest depths of the IOR ,which would make hunting for them by PLAN attack subs a near impossibility. Coupled with mobile versions of the A-6,it would make our second strike capability something hard for the enemy to chew upon.

Karan M · Post by **Karan M** » 14 Jul 2015 00:09

Ministry of Defence

10-July, 2015 16:18 IST
Indian Air Force Formally Inducts the Akash Missile

History was created at Air Force Station Gwalior on 10 Jul 15 when Hon’ble Raksha Mantri Shri Manohar Parrikar formally handed over to the Indian Air Force (IAF) the indigenously designed, developed and produced Akash Air Defence missile system. A befitting ceremony was held to mark this historic event which saw the presence of the top leadership of not only the Air Force but also of the Secretary Defence (R&D) Dr S Christopher, the Chairman and Managing Director of Bharat Electronics Limited (BEL) SK Sharma and the first Project Director of Akash Missile system Dr Prahalada. It is pertinent to note that Akash is the first made-in-India missile system and is a hallmark of sustained and focused jointmanship between DRDO, BEL, private sector and more importantly the IAF.

Earlier, on his arrival at Air Force Staion Gwalior, Shri Manohar Parrikar was received by Chief of the Air Staff Air Chief Marshal Arup Raha. He then inspected the ceremonial Guard of Honour against the backdrop of two Sukhoi 30 MKI, one MiG-21 and one Mirage 2000 aircraft. Thereafter he witnessed the live demonstration of the missile system wherein ‘live’ tracking of fighter aircraft was carried out by switching on the radars.

The handing over ceremony was marked by a spectacular display of a drill by the operating crew of Akash Pioneers, the first unit in the IAF to induct this system. Speaking at the occasion, the Raksha Mantri lauded the efforts of the DRDO, BEL, public and private industries, inspection agencies and the end user who all worked together to resolve a number of challenges that arose during the production of the Akash Missile system. He added that the benefits of the Make in India programme such as employment generation, financial growth, self sufficiency and better defence preparedness were there for all to see.

Air Chief Marshal Arup Raha, who formally received the ‘key’ of the Akash system from Shri Parrikar said that a total of 27 missiles had been fired after inking of the contract, to ascertain the serviceability of the system in various conditions and a high success rate had been achieved. He also brought out that plans were afoot in the IAF for procurement of additional Akash systems.

Akash is a potent supersonic mobile multi-directional, multi-target point/ area Air Defence system that can simultaneously engage multiple air targets using sophisticated multi-function phased array radars. The advanced ECCM (Electronic Counter Counter Measures) features provide secure communication links with other Air Defence Command and Control networks to handle the counter electronic warfare scenario.

Indigenous development of Akash system has given impetus to the defence industrial base of the country and generated business of more than Rs. 20,000 crore. Akash is the outcome of successful partnership between DRDL, the nodal lab in DRDO, along with 13 other DRDO labs, 19 Public Sector Units (PSUs), 5 Ordinance Factories (OFs), 3 National Laboratories, 6 academic institutions and more than 265 private industries across the country.

srai · Post by **srai** » 14 Jul 2015 08:44

Philip wrote:The report said that in the intense heat (the noon "meal"?), the missile's range was only 2.5km. Could that be the missile that failed?

...

This is from Dec 2013 user trials report. They were supposedly be working on a fix since then to further improve the IIR seeker.

DRDO's HeliNa Missile Tested Again

11th December 2013
...
On July 8, seeker evaluation trials for anti-tank missile were carried out in hot desert conditions in Rajasthan. The trials were against both moving and static targets for different ranges of 2.8 km and 3.2 km to evaluate the performance of an improved version of Imaging Infrared (IIR) seeker.

While Nag missile has a maximum range of 4 km, the seeker proved to be accurate only up to 2.5 km in extremely hot conditions in the trials conducted last year. However, the HeliNa has an extended strike range of about eight km. Sources said the problem with the Nag was its range.

The missile can strike its targets up to 4 km but in extreme heat conditions, the missile cannot reach the targets beyond three km....
...

Pratyush · Post by **Pratyush** » 14 Jul 2015 08:55

WRT, the Akash news, a wonderful development. That the IAF is looking to induct more missiles. The largest order for domestic missile looks set to become even bigger.

Singha · Post by **Singha** » 14 Jul 2015 09:19

^^ thats when i think drdo approached sofradir of france to get a better iir cooled seeker. sofradir has a decent range of product in that space.

SaiK · Post by **SaiK** » 14 Jul 2015 17:24

we could develop special dedicated helina helo platform that is just focused on helina alone, perhaps with additional gatlin guns. If I were to draft the design, I'd want to load about 64 helinas for a single major ops, and an auto/mechanical arrangement load them into the launchers. 7km max target range is good!

Philip · Post by **Philip** » 17 Jul 2015 17:15

Ck this site for the nations with the most N-weapons.
Russia,7500 and the US 7200 respectively are streets ahead of the rest,France 3rd with 300.I would disagree with China,they're devious sh*tworms,as having only 250.If Pak possesses 120+ then China should esily possess around 400-500 N-weapons.

http://i100.independent.co.uk/article/t ... 1laWcj7WXg
These are the countries with the most nuclear warheads

Incidentally,we lakc on the mil-td a page for strat. weapons.

Mihir · Post by **Mihir** » 17 Jul 2015 22:13

Test ban for hypersonic missiles?

Critics, meanwhile, see hypersonic missiles as destabilizing: They could be mistaken for ballistic missiles, could be used in attacks against nuclear and other strategic military assets, and could even be outfitted with nuclear warheads. Amid these concerns, calls have emerged to halt a developing hypersonic arms race by enacting a moratorium on hypersonic testing and eventually establishing a test ban treaty. Below, experts from the United States, India, and China debate this question: How serious a threat to global security do hypersonic missiles represent, and is a test ban the best way to moderate such a threat?

I believe a certain poster on this forum had called this years ago. He argued that India needed to get her foot in the door ASAP before another international ban on testing (imposed after advanced nations perfected their technologies, of course) saw Indian efforts stymied and the country exposed to more sanctions and technology denials following a test.

Thakur_B · Post by **Thakur_B** » 22 Jul 2015 21:22

Vijainder K Thakur ‏@vkthakur
Nirbhay missile precise dimensions scoop - Length: 5036-mm Dia: 520-mm Weight would vary with variant 700 to 1100 kg
5:22 PM 21-Jul 2015
https://twitter.com/vkthakur/status/623649206926970881

Anujan · Post by **Anujan** » 23 Jul 2015 06:02

N^3 Had predicted the importance of hypersonic missiles.

Singha · Post by **Singha** » 23 Jul 2015 13:10

IDRW:
The Andhra Pradesh State Cabinet gave its nod for setting up of a missile testing range in Kurnool.

The State Cabinet, which met here on Wednesday, has decided to allot 2295 acres of land for national open air range, DRDO in the villages of Palakolanu, Kuppalapadu and Uyyalavada of Orvakallu mandal in Kurnool district, Minister for Information and Public Relations Palle Raghunadha Reddy told media persons.

“The land is allotted at the rate of Rs.2 lakh per acre. The DRDO has come forward to complete the project by 2018 with an investment of Rs.500 crore and provide employment for as many as 5,000 people,” he disclosed.

shaun · Post by **shaun** » 24 Jul 2015 22:12

LRSAM to be test-fired in India in Oct: BDL Chief

Bengaluru, July 24: The Long Range Surface Air Missile (LR-SAM) will be tested-fired in India, coming October. LRSAM, also known as Barak-8, being co-developed by India and Israel had already been successfully flight-tested against a flying target in Israel in November 2014. Defence Research and Development Organisation (DRDO) and Israel Aerospace Industries (IAI) have joined hands for developing LRSAM, which has a range of 70 km.

Bharat Dynamics Ltd (BDL) Chairman and Managing Director (CMD) U Udaya Bhaskar told defence journalists on the sidelines of the two-day Aerospace and Defence Manufacturing Summit (ADMS 2015) that the LRSAM project is moving in the ‘right direction.' "The programme has been going on for the last five to six years. The missile will have its Indian leg of trial in October. The current trials are for Navy and we will conduct parallel ground trials for the Air Force and Army variants as well," Udaya Bhaskar said.

Mass production likely from next year He said BDL hopes to enter into mass production of LRSAMs from next year onwards, depending upon the outcome of the final trials. "There are a lot of tactical weapon requirements coming up. The success of Akash Weapon System (AWS) has given a big boost for indigenization for SAM (Surface to Air Missile) programmes," Udaya Bhaskar said. BDL presently has three manufacturing units situated in Hyderabad, Medak district (Telangana) and at Visakhapatnam (AP). The fourth unit is coming up in Amravati district of Maharashtra. "We plan to produce Very Short Range Air Defence Missile (VSHORAD) at the Amravati plant. The fifth unit is coming up in Ibrahimpatnam (Telangana) exclusively for SAM project. We are ready to join hands with private partners to take up high-end weapon systems," Udaya Bhaskar added. He said the current orderbook of BDL stood at in excess of Rs Rs 16000 crore.

Adding more teeth to Indian Navy DRDO officials had told OneIndia earlier that once cleared for operations, the LRSAMs will be fitted on the P-15 A Kolkata Class guided-missile destroyers of the Indian Navy. The missile's first ballistic flight test (short-range) was successfully conducted in Israel in May 2010. The first control navigation test of the missile was conducted in 2012. As per the original plan, initial short-range tests are to be held in Israel and the long-range ones in India. The LRSAM project was sanctioned in January 2006 with an initial funding of Rs 2,606.02 crore.

Credit
http://www.oneindia.com/india/lrsam-be- ... 16973.html

Karan M · Post by **Karan M** » 25 Jul 2015 15:25

TFTA enough for Singha!!

Akash production at BDL
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CKsB1esUMAAWUgA.jpg:large