Indian Space Programme Discussion

Vayutuvan · Post by **Vayutuvan** » 11 Jul 2015 21:21

What is the british aam saying in the comments sections? BBC does not allow/did not have any comments. May be all of those who criticize UK aid to India went back into their holes.

juvva · Post by **juvva** » 12 Jul 2015 10:54

Some improvements in the DD coverage this time:

-The camera man managed to track the vehicle during lift off and early flight.

-the commentators went silent just before the lift off and remained silent for some time after the lift off.
For me an ideal would be very little or no commentary, with clearly audible controller call outs.

Varoon Shekhar · Post by **Varoon Shekhar** » 12 Jul 2015 15:57

I have found the commentators at these launches quite concise, articulate and appropriate- not excessive at all. They certainly have not detracted from the enjoyment of viewing the ISRO missions!

SaiK · Post by **SaiK** » 12 Jul 2015 18:11

http://www.newindianexpress.com/cities/ ... 915712.ece

ISRO to Launch RLV-TD in October

THIRUVANANTHAPURAM: The Indian Space Research Organisation (ISRO) is now aiming for an October-end launch for the Reusable Launch Vehicle-Technology Demonstrator (RLV-TD), a scaled-down model of the proposed ‘space shuttle’. Earlier, the space agency was planning to have the mission in July. K Sivan, director, Vikram Sarabhai Space Centre (VSSC), said the construction of the space plane portion of RLV-TD is in its final phase at VSSC, Thumba. “Tests are progressing. We are planning to have the launch in the second half of October,” he said. ISRO chairman A S Kiran Kumar, who is due for a visit to VSSC on Monday, will review the progress of work on this mission which is crucial for India’s future in the space race. This mission will be the first of several tests conducted ahead of building India’s own space shuttle.

The scale model weighs 1.5 tonnes and will fly up to a height of 70 kilometres before dropping down to the Bay of Bengal. For the first RLV-TD experimental flight, the space plane part will be rigged atop a solid booster rocket.The ISRO chairman will also review the progress of work on the Geosynchronous Satellite Launch Vehicle Mk-III (GSLV Mk-III) project.

member_23694 · Post by **member_23694** » 12 Jul 2015 19:34

juvva wrote:Some improvements in the DD coverage this time:

Are you serious

chaanakya · Post by **chaanakya** » 12 Jul 2015 19:51

I think it was the only channel which started showing live coverage of the launch. Other channels were into regular stupid programming. Of late if I want to see news I watch DD and if I want some sleep I listen to Dorknob. Turdesai and Durkha Butt I avoid studiously.

member_28108 · Post by **member_28108** » 12 Jul 2015 20:04

chaanakya wrote:I think it was the only channel which started showing live coverage of the launch. Other channels were into regular stupid programming. Of late if I want to see news I watch DD and if I want some sleep I listen to Dorknob. Turdesai and Durkha Butt I avoid studiously.

I had two channels DD and flicking through other channels simultaneously and actually DD is a earlier by a couple of seconds and incidentally the other channels initially had the usual screaming going on and joined in much later.

chetak · Post by **chetak** » 12 Jul 2015 20:22

chaanakya wrote:I think it was the only channel which started showing live coverage of the launch. Other channels were into regular stupid programming. Of late if I want to see news I watch DD and if I want some sleep I listen to Dorknob. Turdesai and Durkha Butt I avoid studiously.

maybe that any other channels were not allowed, in keeping with this govt's policy of giving such feeds to DD only.

some of the other channel feeds that I saw had the "courtesy DD" logo on them.

This may have pissed off some "exclusive" channels.

member_23694 · Post by **member_23694** » 12 Jul 2015 20:46

chaanakya wrote:I think it was the only channel which started showing live coverage of the launch. Other channels were into regular stupid programming.

Are Sir, I was comparing DD coverage of ISRO launches with Nasa TV and you brought some other channels in discussion. They have other national importance issues to discuss

. But seriously, there can't be 100 channels being allowed cameras to cover rocket launches . DD need to understand that coverage of rocket launches needs other types of cameras and approach and not the one used for covering some program in vigyan bhavan

chaanakya · Post by **chaanakya** » 12 Jul 2015 20:53

That is the first time you mentioned NASA TV. In that case ISRO should have its own TV channel . DD has exclusive feed and other channels take it from DD with their own commentary. Anyway ISRO placing five Londonistan satellites in orbit would have been twisted into a "Blow to Modi" Broken News.

sanjaykumar · Post by **sanjaykumar** » 12 Jul 2015 20:59

RLV-TD in October. Wow.

member_23694 · Post by **member_23694** » 12 Jul 2015 21:08

chaanakya wrote:Anyway ISRO placing five Londonistan satellites in orbit would have been twisted into a "Blow to Modi" Broken News.

same side w.r.t the so called Lutyen private news channels. Just ignore them !!

andy B · Post by **andy B** » 13 Jul 2015 03:24

Well done ISRO on what seems to be a natural phenomenon to you!

On another note is it just me or does that look like a MIRV bus stage! can only imagine what the ebil yindoos are working behind the burqa

Ok crawling back to my hole now.

deejay · Post by **deejay** » 13 Jul 2015 06:19

As per NDTV, the Antrix website was hacked by the Chinese hackers (it seems). http://www.antrix.gov.in/

http://www.ndtv.com/india-news/website- ... ers-780619

NEW DELHI: The website of Antrix, Indian Space Research Organisation's commercial arm, was hacked on Sunday.

The URL antrix.gov.in leads to a web page to buy sports merchandise and is believed to be the handiwork of Chinese hackers.

This comes two days after ISRO launched five British satellites from its Polar Satellite Launch Vehicle, its heaviest commercial launch, from Sriharikota in Andhra Pradesh.

The site http://www.antrix.gov.in/ was under maintenance at 0714 hrs IST on Monday when I checked.

Added Later: I think people are beginning to seriously notice ISRO and its feathered cap now.

member_28108 · Post by **member_28108** » 13 Jul 2015 07:25

No sign of success like if you have been hacked - means people have noticed and you must be doing something really right !!

deejay · Post by **deejay** » 13 Jul 2015 08:25

prasannasimha wrote:No sign of success like if you have been hacked - means people have noticed and you must be doing something really right !!

I couldn't agree more.

I will drink to that today evening - Cheers!!!

Austin · Post by **Austin** » 13 Jul 2015 12:42

Can they make their website hackproof ? Its not for the first time such sites got hacked ?

schinnas · Post by **schinnas** » 13 Jul 2015 13:06

SSridhar wrote:Antrix has orders for sending 28 satellites - The Hindu
Antrix Corporation, the commercial arm of ISRO, has already signed service contracts for launching 28 satellites for various countries in the next two years.

“Of the 28, the next launch would be before the end of this year for Singapore,” Antrix Corporation chairman and managing director V.S. Hegde said.

The satellites vary from nano, micro and normal, which can be launched by a PSLV rocket, he said.

Antrix which recorded over Rs. 1,600 crore revenue during 2013-14, got a revenue of Rs. 1,850 crore during 2014-15. While the cost for launching smaller satellites would be calculated on its weight (cost per kg), Antrix would follow different norms in case of big satellites.

There is a need to think big and create a dedicated launch station just for commercial use and a fast assembly, test and fire infrastructure for the same. 200 Million USD a year isn't enough given the market size. We should be planning and aiming for billions of dollars in commercial revenue with > 40% profit margin that can be put back into longer term R&D by ISRO.

Hemanth · Post by **Hemanth** » 13 Jul 2015 14:30

First of all, another perfect launch. Congratulations ISRO!

vayu tuvan wrote:What is the british aam saying in the comments sections? BBC does not allow/did not have any comments. May be all of those who criticize UK aid to India went back into their holes.

There are still lots of comments about 'our aid money' & 'toilets' from Britards.

But I'm now seeing lots of rebuttals to these comments even from western people. For example in reddit, the comment about aid was voted down into oblivion.

Austin wrote:Can they make their website hackproof ? Its not for the first time such sites got hacked ?

It's not easy and there is nothing that is 100% hackproof. But there are a lot of things we can do to make it as difficult as possible (i.e. setting up correct permissions in the server, restricting user rights, making scripts run as user, keeping the server software up-to-date, installing opensource security modules etc.). I'm pretty sure admins of a site like BR knows all about those measures which can close of most of the attack vectors. I'm managing a fairly large forum and haven't had a hack in years (it's used to be a monthly event when I started out many years ago!).

Now, why is not happening in government websites? Perhaps the IT department personnel looking after these websites do not have the necessary know-how?

Austin · Post by **Austin** » 13 Jul 2015 16:48

Hemanth wrote: I'm managing a fairly large forum and haven't had a hack in years (it's used to be a monthly event when I started out many years ago!).

Thanks , Which forum is its fine to share ?

Austin · Post by **Austin** » 13 Jul 2015 16:48

ISRO Now Eyes Venus as its Next Big Destination

VinodTK · Post by **VinodTK** » 14 Jul 2015 03:02

GAGAN, Aviation Navigation System, Launched

SSSalvi · Post by **SSSalvi** » 14 Jul 2015 15:28

Sorry for being brief.. domestic reasons ..

Posting the current positions of items delivered along with 3 DMCs.

I am just blindly posting drawing without knowing what those objects are.

Will attempt later to cover the coverage aspects being discussed with some practical examples.

Varoon Shekhar · Post by **Varoon Shekhar** » 14 Jul 2015 15:48

Any reports of that new, Indian made long range, multi-tracking radar being tested on this latest mission? They said a few months ago, that it would be used on this launch.

RoyG · Post by **RoyG** » 14 Jul 2015 18:03

andy B wrote:

Well done ISRO on what seems to be a natural phenomenon to you!

On another note is it just me or does that look like a MIRV bus stage! can only imagine what the ebil yindoos are working behind the burqa

Ok crawling back to my hole now.

MIRV will be easy for us. The tech for multi satellite release is related.

SSridhar · Post by **SSridhar** » 17 Jul 2015 08:24

Great news.
GSLV Mk III engine completes ‘full endurance test’ - P.Sudhakar, The Hindu

The Indian Space Research Organisation (ISRO) successfully conducted the much-awaited ‘full endurance test’ of the Geosynchronous Satellite Launch Vehicle Mk III’s indigenous cryogenic CE-20 engine at ISRO Propulsion Complex (IPRC) in Mahendragiri {didn't realize that LPSC has been renamed last year as IPRC} in the district on Thursday.

The CE-20 was ignited and tested for 800 seconds from 5 p.m. to study the performance of the engine though the actual required duration was only 635 seconds.

During the actual flight of the GSLV, the engine will be ignited for only 635 seconds.

Parameters normal

“All major parameters of CE-20 were normal and the test comfortably met all predetermined results,” D. Karthikesan, Director, IPRC, Mahendragiri, who witnessed the test along with his colleagues, told The Hindu on Thursday evening.

An elated Mr. Karthikesan termed the successful conduct of ‘full endurance test’ yet another milestone in developing a bigger and more powerful indigenously built high thrust cryogenic upper stage for the 43-metre-tall GSLV Mk III that would position heavier payloads (satellites weighing about 4,000 kg) in the geostationary orbit.

He said that the subsystems of CE-20 such as injector, thrust chamber, gas generator, liquid oxygen and liquid hydrogen turbo pumps were tested at the IPRC, known among the ISRO scientists as the ‘Jet Propulsion Laboratory of India’, as every parameter of ISRO’s launch vehicles are tested only here.

A suborbital flight test of GSLV Mk III launcher, with a passive cryogenic third stage, was successfully carried out on December 18, 2014, and was used to test a Crew Module Atmospheric Re-entry Experiment (CARE) on a suborbital trajectory.

A morale booster

Since the ISRO has planned to go in for the next launch of GSLV Mk III within next 18 months, the successful ‘full endurance test’ for 800 seconds has come as a morale booster for its scientists at IPRC.

The mission will put in the GSAT-19E communication satellite into orbit.

vina · Post by **vina** » 17 Jul 2015 08:44

SSridhar wrote:Great news.
GSLV Mk III engine completes ‘full endurance test’ - P.Sudhakar, The Hindu

Hmm. LPSC is now renamed as IPRC aye? Moi all for branding and marketing onree..

However, all this CE 20 business is all fine and dandy, but when are they getting rid of the UDMH/N204 WeakAss engines which have been around since the time of the dinosaurs ? Where are the hydrocarbon (prefer LCH4) + Lox engines ?

Aren't the WeakAss engines past the retirement age and isn't it time to send them away to the blue yonder with a salute for services well rendered ?

sohamn · Post by **sohamn** » 17 Jul 2015 12:17

I don't think there is much progress in the Semi Cryo engine at this point. I am sure it will take 8 - 10 years for our first semi cry engine to fly. Another option is to develop a 400 KN cryo engine and have 5 engines mated to the first stage. Similar to what SpaceX has done with Falcon.

ravar · Post by **ravar** » 17 Jul 2015 13:19

^^Just as I guessed-

LPSC Hq at Valiamala, Tvpm, has not been renamed.

"Formerly, IPRC was known as LPSC, Mahendragiri and taking cognizance of the future growth of the space program of our nation and the concomitant expansion at Mahendragiri, it was elevated as IPRC with effect from February 01, 2014."

Source: LPSC and IPRC websites

member_24684 · Post by **member_24684** » 17 Jul 2015 21:44

.

Seems Yes ..the LPSC is changed into IPSC

LPSC - - Liquid Propulsion Systems Center

IPSC - ISRO Propulsion Complex

Shot this today..

member_28108 · Post by **member_28108** » 17 Jul 2015 23:04

vina wrote:
SSridhar wrote:Great news.
GSLV Mk III engine completes ‘full endurance test’ - P.Sudhakar, The Hindu
Hmm. LPSC is now renamed as IPRC aye? Moi all for branding and marketing onree..

However, all this CE 20 business is all fine and dandy, but when are they getting rid of the UDMH/N204 WeakAss engines which have been around since the time of the dinosaurs ? Where are the hydrocarbon (prefer LCH4) + Lox engines ?

Aren't the WeakAss engines past the retirement age and isn't it time to send them away to the blue yonder with a salute for services well rendered ?

Vina I asked you last time and got no answer- how many functional LOX methane rockets are there being used in flight today ?

How many countries have even got a stable ignition and flame stabilization of a LOX methane engine ? The Russians tested quite a few but they are still not using it.

member_28108 · Post by **member_28108** » 17 Jul 2015 23:16

http://www.dlr.de/Portaldata/55/Resourc ... 12prop.pdf

Things are not so easy for LOX methane engine even though superficially the specific impulse is marginally higher.

http://space.stackexchange.com/question ... the-raptor

Methane (CH4) and RP-1 are roughly equivalent in realizable performance. As previously mentioned by other posters, CH4 has slightly higher impulse – about 370 s in vacuum vs the 360 s – at the same chamber pressure of 7 MPa. But, this is counterbalanced by its lower bulk density of about 830 kg/m3 vs about 1030 kg/m3. Bulk Density is the density of the combined Fuel and Oxidizer load in their appropriate ratios. Even though Methane is "only" 430 kg/m3 it is burned with 3.5 parts oxygen compared to 2.1 parts for RP-1, hence a CH4 rocket will be carrying more oxygen and less fuel by weight. Oxygen is pretty dense at a little over 1140 kg/m3 which is denser in fact than RP-1 (about 810 kg/m3). If we assume that chamber pressures and engine cycle efficiency will be equal, RP-1 outperforms CH4 simply because a 20% larger tank will impose weigh penalties that slightly outweigh the 3% increase in specific impulse. However, the RP-1 advantage is contingent upon operating at an equal chamber pressure which may not be the case. And, Methane (CH4) has additional advantages that are applicable in specific scenarios.

The reasons CH4 is a front runner for SpaceX's Raptor can probably be attributed to four factors:

Methane does not coke (polymerize) at the operating temperatures of a rocket engine – it's coking point is roughly twice as high. This makes it easier to make an engine reusable and re-usability is a key SpaceX objective.

Because Methane does not coke, it is also easier to implement a full-flow stage combustion (FFSC) cycle where all the fuel and oxidizer flow goes through the pre-burner. Compared to contemporary Russian partial flow stage combustion engines higher chamber pressures are attainable resulting in a total impulse advantage of about 30 seconds, or 9%. This eliminates the performance deficiency of CH4 compared to RP-1.

If SpaceX intends to use the same fuel in all the stages, CH4 can be considered a better upper stage fuel and a worse lift-off fuel, even without enabling higher working pressures. This is because upper stages are typically 1/8th to 1/10th the size of the 1st stage, and here impulse is more important than density. Using Methane with the aforementioned FFSC cycle means that SpaceX can potentially get equivalent 1st stage performance and better upper stage performance.

Even though it is, IMHO, somewhat dubious that early Mars mission will use in-situ fuel production. If that ever becomes an applicable practice, Methane can be produced from water and CO2 while RP-1 cannot.

Other than that, there is the non-factor that somewhat favor Methane, such as regular grade Natural Gas being good enough and not having to highly refine the fuel from regular kerosene to RP-1 to achieve low coking characteristics and consistent densities. I say it is a non-factor, because fuel cost is such a negligible part of launch costs that it really doesn't matter if fuel cost a few times more or less. Fuel is typically only about 0.3% of the cost of flying a rocket to orbit, so fuel cost really doesn't matter – Not even when you compare highly expensive propellant combos like Hydrazine/Tetroxide to the relatively cheap Kerosene/Oxygen.

SaiK · Post by **SaiK** » 18 Jul 2015 00:17

Austin wrote:Can they make their website hackproof ? Its not for the first time such sites got hacked ?

they can.. it needs some validations and checks. they can tokenize every request (CSRF) ie browser supported.

http://www.creativebloq.com/web-design/ ... te-7122853
simple rules onlee
https://www.owasp.org/index.php/Cross-S ... ery_(CSRF)

the above pic shown is a clear sign of request-response meandering (MOM - man in the middle attack)

..and i don't see a token on their source (response to browser)
view-source:http://www.antrix.gov.in/

SaiK · Post by **SaiK** » 18 Jul 2015 04:13

the 25 sec video seems to have been posted last week

Hari Seldon · Post by **Hari Seldon** » 18 Jul 2015 04:24

Fully indigenous semi-cryo GSLV Mk-III will fly in Dec 2016, chaiwala source tells me.

nachiket · Post by **nachiket** » 18 Jul 2015 04:28

^^Semi-cryo? Do you mean GSLV MkIII with CE20 engine?

Hari Seldon · Post by **Hari Seldon** » 18 Jul 2015 04:31

^^Err, dunno the technical details. Source is a baboo in the space department. Will enquire and get back, however.

nachiket · Post by **nachiket** » 18 Jul 2015 04:36

Hari Seldon wrote:^^Err, dunno the technical details. Source is a baboo in the space department. Will enquire and get back, however.

The semi-cryo is the SCE-200 under development. Highly unlikely that the first MkIII launch will include that. It's not yet ready and hasn't been tested. They tested the CE20 for full duration more than 18 months before planned MkIII launch (in Dec 2016).

member_28108 · Post by **member_28108** » 18 Jul 2015 06:29

They have not yet done the full engine test 9I think they have done the cold flow test) and are still developing the infrastructure for the hot test as it is 2000 kN engine. So it must be the GSLV Mark 3 flight they are talking about.

vina · Post by **vina** » 18 Jul 2015 06:37

prasannasimha wrote: how many functional LOX methane rockets are there being used in flight today ?

None. But in 5 years from now, you are going to have 2 engines putting out 2.2 to 2.5 MN thrust running on Methane & LOX.
ISRO meanwhile seems to be re-inventing 1960s style soviet RP1 /LOX engine with 2MN thrust, along with the refining and other infra for RP1. Talk of re-inventing the wheel.

How many countries have even got a stable ignition and flame stabilization of a LOX methane engine ? The Russians tested quite a few but they are still not using it.

Why will the Russians use it. They have superbly performing RP1/LOX which they have perfected, invested massively in. Why will they rip and replace anything they have for something that gives marginal benefit.

But for India, which doesnt have RP1/LOX engines, it makes sense to go LCH4/LOX. You need to put in all the infra brand new anyways, have to build the engine from scratch , go through design, testing and qualification, so why not do it for LCH4/LOX instead.

You dont need any facility for refining RP1, LCH4 of very high purity is available off the shelf in LNG form.

Also, the numbers you quoted out of the DLR study is a bit restrictive. That study was basically, I take RD-180, and I subsitute LCh4 instead of RP1 , what do I get. You dont need to go oxygen rich with a LCH4 engine. The tank layout can be different (the LCH4 Tank and Oxygen tank can be coaxial I think, you will cut down hugely on insulation and tank weight), you can have a single turbine driving both LOX & LCH4 pumps (the densities are nearly same, so same RPM pumps should do the job) and more importantly, you could have fully resuesbale booster stages, which is going to be the game changer for commercial competitiveness.

ISRO needs to think like a business and not a science project.