Sunni Terrorist Fragments of Unstable Pakistan-July 10, 2015

schinnas · Post by **schinnas** » 18 Jul 2015 11:47

Deleted.

schinnas · Post by **schinnas** » 18 Jul 2015 11:48

Deleted duplicate post

pankajs · Post by **pankajs** » 18 Jul 2015 14:38

Clearly not embarrassing enough for the Bakis

ET Defence ‏@ETDefence 47m47 minutes ago

Embarrassing disclosure! Drone shot down by Pakistan army was made in China: China state media http://ecoti.ms/VXkgXZ

pankajs · Post by **pankajs** » 18 Jul 2015 14:41

Kanchan Gupta ‏@KanchanGupta

Mubarak ho, Pakistan! (Via @Sanjay_Dixit)

gakakkad · Post by **gakakkad** » 18 Jul 2015 17:32

schinnas wrote:I have a doubt regarding the recent puki - KSA spat. I wonder if maal changed hands under the noise behind non cooperation of pukis in sending troops for suicide in Yemen.

We need to closely watch any money dropping into begging bowl of pukis that can be linked directly or indirectly to KSA.

It should be noted that puki economy is currently held afloat by remittances of pukis in KSA, UAE and Qatar. There is no indication of these countries sending back puki expats.

I had an epiphany,,,What if KSA found out that Baaki's are essentially nook nude and don't have a functional bum to speak of ? And photochor was lousy at even photochori and in 1998 , it was cheeni fatakas covertly transferred to STFU-P and any hope of getting new-clear detergent from baaki's are merely a mirage ? unless you want some outdated cheeni warheads , that may or may not work...

Surely Chinese are not mad enough to transfer too many to na-paki's ...And paakis would not want to lose the small number they have ...

Falijee · Post by **Falijee** » 18 Jul 2015 18:27

Voice Samples Cannot Be Used As Evidence In 26/11 Case

ISLAMABAD: The voice samples of Ziaur Rehman Lakhvi are in the limelight once again since the Ufa meeting but it’s an issue that the FIA has been following for the past few years, even though the Agency now claims that they are irrelevant to the trial.

After having pursued the matter for four years, the FIA now says the voice samples cannot be used as evidence.

New strategy in action

In 2011, the Agency went to the IHC to obtain the voice samples of Lakhvi and his co-accused Abdul Wajid, Mazhar Iqbal, Hammad Amin Sadiq, Shahid Jamil, Jamil Ahmed and Younas Anjum currently confined in Adiala Jail. The petition is still pending in the IHC.

The IHC division bench on September 12, 2012 dismissed the petition for “non prosecution” — in other words, the FIA was not pursuing this matter.

FIA special prosecutor Mohammad Azhar Chaudhry told Dawn that “there is no law in Pakistan that allows the prosecution to forcibly obtain the voice sample of an accused. There is no such law in India and the US.”

“We cannot force the accused to give their voice sample.”[*]

[*] Unless Deep State makes him a sacrificial lamb

CRamS · Post by **CRamS** » 18 Jul 2015 19:08

^^^ Politicians, media, you name it, talk about "International community" wants this and that from India & TSP. If there ever was a slam dunk case for 3rd party mediation without India compromising its soverignty, this 26/11 circus by TSP is a perfect case for India to ask "international community" to walk the talk on terrorism. Forget China, I mean, if US wants to, it can turn the screws on TSP on 26/11 because after all, 6 of its white citizens were victim of this TSP military attack on 26/11 (not to mention white victims from US's lackey countries), but it refuses to do so. So, when people say, "international community" expects something from India regarding TSP, the response should by that India expects US to turn the 26/11 screws on TSP. First step would be to ask Richard Verma this question instead chana masala gas about India US strategic relations.

Gagan · Post by **Gagan** » 18 Jul 2015 19:21

Bakistani Ingliss is world class, and better than India

P.I.S.S : Pakistan Institute of Strategic Studies

Gagan · Post by **Gagan** » 18 Jul 2015 20:35

Jhujar wrote:Jo Hasega Wohi Fasega and punished with repeat watching, listening of the Shittrategic expert of Al Bakistan

I call this guy a "Krishi Darshan" expert. He probably used to host a program called "Kaasht kaaron ke liye" discussing how to prevent sundi attacks on kapaas and gundum. Now he's a ishtrateg-hic expert

http://www.indiandefensenews.in/2015/06 ... n-was.html

Peregrine · Post by **Peregrine** » 18 Jul 2015 23:17

Pakistanis offer their Back Channel instead of Track II
Cheers

Gagan · Post by **Gagan** » 18 Jul 2015 23:27

^^^
Gazwa-e-Hind hain ji?

Anujan · Post by **Anujan** » 19 Jul 2015 03:06

Saudis are in a precarious position. They have no more than 10 years to get the bum. This is slightly OT to this dhaaga, but relevant to Al-Bakistan.

The nuclear deal with Iran means that:

1) They mothball most of current centrifuges (not dismantle or destroy them, merely put them in storage)
2) They can continue to work on new centrifuges
3) They get relief from Weapons related sanctions in 10 years.

Which means that if they chose to do so, they can have a ballistic missile armed with Nukes after 10 years (when their breakout time would be 3 months). Saudis realistically have 10 years then.

Saudis are not going to make the bum in 10 years. There is nobody there who knows the difference between their bum and their musharraf. They have to rely on Pakis or Israel. Israel could work out a quid-pro-quo with the Saudis. I think this is a tantalizing possibility. Israel works with Saudis to destroy Hezbollah and Hamas. Israel also works with Saudis to train Saudis to conduct air strikes on Iranian nuke facilities (maybe accompanied by a few Israeli instructors etc) and in return Saudis tone down their pro-palestine rhetoric.

Obviously if this ever gets out, it is going to be a huge ruckus in Saudis and among the ummah. The next option for Saudis is Russia (not happening. Saudis listened to US, increased oil production and hurt Russian economy. On top of it, Saudis are US client state, Iran is likely to buy arms from Russia. So Saudi-Russia, bhai-bhai aint happening). Cheeni (Not happening. Cheenis themselves are among the top buyers of Saudi oil. They already have Saudi testimonials in their hands. They dont have a dog in the game, their best option is to be neutral in Saudi-Iran spat and play both sides). Realistically only Pakis are left.

Now already (I suspect this is an establishment sanctioned view) there are rumblings in Paki anal-yeasts about how friendship with Saudis is costing Pakis a lot vis-a-vis sectarianism and terrorism. It is convenient that Pakis noticed this just now, after finding out China is going to be their next sugar daddy and they dont need the Saudis anymore. All the same, I do think that this is a very definite move away of Pakis from the Saudis. There are two parts to the story. Pakis have two kind of understanding with the Saudis. (a) They will protect the dynasty and the two mosques. Which Pakis interpret as training terrorists and supplying manpower to train the Saudis. Saudis interpret it as sending Paki army over if they pick up fights with say the Yemenis (b) They will supply the bum when necessary.

(a) Has been tested and failed. Pakis didnt send out their army

Saudis are fair in doubting the resolve of Pakis for (b). They know that Pakis are rent-a-country types and when sh1t hits the fan, they will claim neutrality and inability to act. Saudis need the bum and they have less than 10 years to do it.

They might (a) Engineer a coup inside Pakistan. Get a friendly regime going or (b) Squeeze Paki testimonials with Chinese wink wink and station a few nukes in Saudia under Saudi control. If (b) leaks out, Iran is not going to be very pleased with her eastern neighbour. Interesting times ahead. India should just sit back, mouth platitudes and eat popcorn.

Serve this OIC mofos right for piously declaring their support for "Cashmere". If Saudis had any imagination, they would have courted India.

kancha · Post by **kancha** » 19 Jul 2015 04:20

@gauravcsawant
Friends in Pak say Indian firing disproportionate & escalating. Causing unfortunate casualties of men & material. UNMOGIP called to witness

Shreeman · Post by **Shreeman** » 19 Jul 2015 04:44

kancha wrote:@gauravcsawant
Friends in Pak say Indian firing disproportionate & escalating. Causing unfortunate casualties of men & material. UNMOGIP called to witness

I am saddenned for innocent friends across the -- internationally disputed, nukular powder keg, ill defined, UN resolution violating, smaller disadvantaged smaller brother human rights violating over a meaningless patch of land-- fence.

Cant we all just get along? (TM)

Falijee · Post by **Falijee** » 19 Jul 2015 04:48

Embarrassment for Pakistan, as China daily confirms downed drone as Chinese-made

Shreeman · Post by **Shreeman** » 19 Jul 2015 04:56

Re. saoodees, who have planted wahabism on every rock and grain of sand, do people contend they would accept the quid pro quo of -- words of assurance? The saoodis have what they wanted from bakistan. Its not just hubbaras they can get out at will.

If north korea, iran, libya, syria bought all the blueprints, then saood was given anything and everything, youngest daughter included, on a platter. It may be worthless, but what bakistan has, saood has, in saoodia.

The problem, like ijraeel, is admitting capability. Iran can. Saood cant. H&D gets hurt. Thats the only problem.

CRamS · Post by **CRamS** » 19 Jul 2015 05:20

TSP buggers have the audacity to equate 26/11 prosecution with Kashmir

http://foreignpolicy.com/2015/07/17/sha ... k-at-home/

A_Gupta · Post by **A_Gupta** » 19 Jul 2015 06:06

http://www.newindianexpress.com/magazin ... 923969.ece
"Multi-pronged Pak Strategy Better than Dialogue Hopes"
G Parthasarathy writes:

A multi-pronged strategy is evidently being developed by the Modi government to deal with the security and diplomatic challenges Pakistan poses. The traditional mantra that ‘dialogue’ alone can bring peace and amity with Pakistan has, at long last, been recognised as being unrealistic and impractical. There is recognition now that diplomacy can only work if accompanied by measures that make it costly for Pakistan to continue on its present path of confrontation and diplomatic negativism, which it has consistently adopted.

Within South Asia, Pakistan’s strategy of using SAARC as an instrument to embarrass India and prevent moves for economic integration of the region has been aggressively countered. In his first year of office, Modi has visited all his eastern South Asian neighbours, while avoiding visits to politically unstable Maldives and Pakistan. The land boundary agreement and his high-profile visit to Bangladesh have effectively blocked Pakistan’s efforts to sow discord between Delhi and Dhaka. This has been combined with moves that exclude Pakistan to build maritime, road and rail connectivity and energy cooperation with Nepal, Bhutan, Bangladesh, Sri Lanka and Myanmar, across the Bay of Bengal. Pakistan has been effectively told that try as it may, it cannot block India’s growing economic ties and connectivity with its neighbours.

Modi is also the first Indian Prime Minister to directly express his concerns to China’s leadership on its moves to internationally abet Pakistan-sponsored terrorism by blocking global action against Pakistan-based terrorists and terrorist groups like the Lashkar-e-Taiba (LeT). Beijing cannot but realise that its international image will take a beating if it is seen to be blocking action against internationally designated terrorist groups. The assiduous courting of the otherwise not too friendly Obama administration is also paying dividends. Pakistan is also feeling the heat of American pressure on reining in its jihadi groups.

With its forces involved heavily in fighting the Tehreek-e-Taliban in the Khyber Pakhtunkhwa province, Baloch tribesmen from the Bugti, Marri and Mengal clans in Baluchistan and an urban warfare against the MQM in Karachi, the Pakistan army is now tied down in three of the country’s four provinces. The hawkish Army Chief, General Raheel Sharif, is crying hoarse about the alleged involvement of India’s R&AW in all three armed uprisings inside Pakistan. General Sharif has also been taken aback by the unprecedentedly robust response by the Indian army and the BSF to infiltration bids and unprovoked firing by Pakistan, across the LoC and the international border. The hysterical Pakistan army’s response of threatening nuclear escalation provoked powers like the US and the UK to turn the screws on Pakistan and discuss issues of terrorism with India, while urging India to resume diplomatic engagement with its western neighbour.

It was in the light of these developments that the summit meeting with Nawaz Sharif was proposed during the SCO event in Ufa, where Modi was set to take part in the BRICS summit. Having accused India of terrorism in three of its provinces, Pakistan had little option but to agree to serious discussions, primarily on terrorism and cross-border infiltration. India has wanted such an outcome and not return to the past practice of a meaningless “composite dialogue” that was virtually designed to perpetuate Pakistan-sponsored terrorism. The forthcoming discussions between the two NSAs will focus on mutual concerns on terrorism, while discussions between the heads of border security paramilitary forces and the army DGMOs will focus on infiltration across the international border and the LoC.

It would be premature and naive to get elated over these developments, or expect that Pakistan will act against Zakiur Rahman Lakhvi. Nawaz Sharif’s family has for long patronised the LeT. Moreover, Pakistan has skillfully obtained American, Russian and Chinese backing on emerging developments in Afghanistan. It would be naive to presume that Pakistan will easily give up its terrorist assets anytime soon.

vasu raya · Post by **vasu raya** » 19 Jul 2015 08:02

kancha wrote:@gauravcsawant
Friends in Pak say Indian firing disproportionate & escalating. Causing unfortunate casualties of men & material. UNMOGIP called to witness

when they say disproportionate and escalatory, are they saying

a) for one bullet they fire say we respond with 2 or maybe 10 bullets, or 1 Indian soldier is killed we target 1 or 2 of theirs
b) or for one bullet they fire we are responding with an artillery shell

either way, it seems that they want to register a political weight to the response, for case a) their tone is higher and for b) even higher
Army may not have issues with jumping to either a) or b), though we can be sure that the political class will not scale the escalatory ladder having to face the 'international community', a ladder the pakis are calibrating

if they succeed, it might impact their perception or embolden them to calculate that we will move one rung at a time even with the usage of strategic weapons as the same political class is in control. That opens the gates for their use of TNWs.

A_Gupta · Post by **A_Gupta** » 19 Jul 2015 08:29

http://epaperbeta.timesofindia.com/Arti ... 2015012029
Husain Haqqani on India -Pakistan talks.

johneeG · Post by **johneeG** » 19 Jul 2015 09:35

Amber G. wrote:Sorry if posted earlier -- happened to see this Japan times story recently..
July 1999 During kargil down hill skiiing Musharraf orders his general to launch the missile against india, but his commanders refused to do that because the accuracy of the missile systems of pakistan was worse so they fear that the missile could hit pakistani cites.

Excerpts from above Japan times story: (Please read the original if interested)
A retired Pakistani nuclear scientist has claimed that former Pakistani leader Gen. Pervez Musharraf’s 1999 military adventurism in the Kargil region of divided Kashmir failed in part because the North Korea-aided, nuclear-capable Ghauri missiles he wanted to deploy then had a faulty guidance system.

Speaking on condition of anonymity, the scientist said that during the Kargil crisis of May-July 1999, Musharraf, who was then army chief, “wanted to deploy Ghauri missiles, but air went out of his balloon when the top general in charge of the missile program told him the missile had a faulty guidance systems

Over a year earlier, on April 6, 1998, Pakistan had carried out what it described as a successful first test of the intermediate-range ballistic missile, developed by Khan Research Laboratory with North Korean assistance.

Even Musharraf, who witnessed that Ghauri launch as a local corps commander, had been led to believe it was a success then, according to the nuclear scientist, who until recently had long been closely associated with the country’s nuclear and missile programs.

The truth, he said, is that the ballistic missile failed to reach its predesignated impact point in Pakistan’s southwestern province of Baluchistan and its debris could not be found — something that would have undermined the missile’s deterrent effect if it were made public.

This confirms my belief that Pakistan does not have missiles and nukes if it didn't use them during Kargil. During Kargil, Pakistan would have used all their options before accepting defeat.

During Kargil, Pakistan had the option of
- Opening another front some where on the Indo-Pak border to reduce pressure on Kargil.
- using missiles and threaten nukes.

Pakistan didn't use either of these two options. That means
- Pakistan had already exhausted its war capabilities in Kargil and didn't have the ability to open another front. That means, Pakistan only prepares to fight a small war for about 2-3 weeks. In a smaller skirmish, this period can be extended to 6 weeks. If Bhaarath prepares robustly using its superior size, then Pakistan simply cannot match.
- Pakistan doesn't have even missiles leave alone nukes.

Musharraf was visiting China during Kargil. Perhaps, he was exploring the option of China opening another front. Or atleast pretending to open another front to reduce pressure on Kargil. But, china didn't do that. China also didn't come to Pakistan's rescue during 1971.

That means, all said and done, no one is going to come to anyone's aid. Every country has to fight their own battles. Others might provide some lip service and financial aid. But, don't expect them to do too much for your sake.

That means if Bhaarath really builds up the strength and decides to remove Pakistan, then no one is going to object. Maybe there will be some usual noise, but just that. So, Pakistan survives because of its bluffing and Bhaarath's apathy in building up its strength.

Gagan · Post by **Gagan** » 19 Jul 2015 09:51

JohneeG,
They have missile manufacturing capability. They produce them at two locations. If I get time, I will brush off some of my older posts about their defense sites and post them in a relevant dhaga.
They don't have real missile technology, understanding of the science. So they only do things such as increasing the size of the fuel tanks, put in a smaller warhead, import a third stage from the north koreans etc. Their north korean origin Ghauri missiles are highly unstable and inaccurate. Their prized possessions are the Chinese M11s.

Mushy did order deployment of their missile capability during Kargil, their army made a lot of song and dance about it, displaying them outside their hangers, thook-polishing the missiles in the open so they could be photographed by Indian, US, Russian, Chinese, Israeli satellites.

What they don't have is any relevant nuclear weapons capability, there is no open source confirmation of this, there are hints only.
The various governments seem to be winking and nodding and smiling. It is deliberately being shrouded in mystery.

My personal assessment is that when pakistan says that they will use nuclear weapons, India should not take that threat very seriously. Won't say more.

johneeG · Post by **johneeG** » 19 Jul 2015 09:59

Gagan wrote:JohneeG,
They have missile manufacturing capability. They produce them at two locations. If I get time, I will brush off some of my older posts about their defense sites and post them in a relevant dhaga.

Mushy did order deployment of their missile capability during Kargil, their army made a lot of song and dance about it, displaying them outside their hangers, thook-polishing the missiles in the open so they could be photographed by Indian, US, Russian, Chinese, Israeli satellites.

What they don't have is any relevant nuclear weapons capability, there is no open source confirmation of this, there are hints only.
The various governments seem to be winking and nodding and smiling. It is deliberately being shrouded in mystery.

My personal assessment is that when pakistan says that they will use nuclear weapons, India should not take that threat very seriously. Won't say more.

Gagan saar,
I agree with you that they made a song and dance about it. And they wanted everyone to photograph which others did. But, my point is: if they really had the missile capability, then they would have used it.

At that point, they were threatening nuclear war scenario. That threat would have been far more credible if they had fired a missile(even a very less lethal missile) as a warning shot. Then, the nuclear threat would have been very credible. And it would have forced our side to consider the nuclear threat much more seriously.

Kargil was actually a very good maneuver if Pakistan had the wherewith all to hold on to it. So, they would have definitely used everything at their disposal in such a gambit. If they didn't use something, it means they don't have that ability.

partha · Post by **partha** » 19 Jul 2015 10:11

johneeG wrote: This confirms my belief that Pakistan does not have missiles and nukes if it didn't use them during Kargil. During Kargil, Pakistan would have used all their options before accepting defeat.

During Kargil, Pakistan had the option of
- Opening another front some where on the Indo-Pak border to reduce pressure on Kargil.
- using missiles and threaten nukes.

It's not that simple in my opinion. It's definitely possible that they lack in missile and nuke capabilities but there are other reasons too as to why they didn't use missiles. That would have escalated the war to a whole new level which would have been unsustainable for them. Remember this Pakistanis we are talking about. Even if the missiles have faulty guidance system, they just have to launch them in the general direction of India and make it fall in Indian territory to claim victory. So I think it is the fear of escalation that led them not to use such options.

johneeG · Post by **johneeG** » 19 Jul 2015 10:32

partha wrote:
johneeG wrote: This confirms my belief that Pakistan does not have missiles and nukes if it didn't use them during Kargil. During Kargil, Pakistan would have used all their options before accepting defeat.

During Kargil, Pakistan had the option of
- Opening another front some where on the Indo-Pak border to reduce pressure on Kargil.
- using missiles and threaten nukes.
It's not that simple in my opinion. It's definitely possible that they lack in missile and nuke capabilities but there are other reasons too as to why they didn't use missiles. That would have escalated the war to a whole new level which would have been unsustainable for them. Remember this Pakistanis we are talking about.

Partha saar,
I think Musharraf's(and Pakistan's) whole gambit in Kargil episode was that Bhaarath would back off from escalation ladder first. And thats why they were making song and dance about nukes. And thats why they deliberately let everyone know that they were about to use their missiles.

If they were really afraid of escalation, then they would not have made a song and dance about nukes. They would not have allowed anyone to know that they are going to use their missiles if they were afraid of escalation. Because as soon as Bhaarath learns about Pakistan moving its missiles, Bhaarath could have gone for a pre-emptive strike. But, Pakistan didn't seem to be afraid of that possibility. So, they were not afraid of escalation because they were already escalating as soon as they make nuclear threats and move their missiles.

Also, Pakistan was hoping to get 'international' attention if there is enough escalation. And if 'global audience' comes into picture, then the first thing they will ask for is ceasefire. That would mean Pakistan could have held on to Kargil if they would have forced such an escalation.

So, not only Pakistan was not afraid of escalation, in fact, Pakistan was escalating and hoping that this escalation would catch the global attention which would mean a ceasefire. And they were hoping that Bhaarath would back off from escalation first. This is how they have occupied part of Kashmir in 1948.

So, it seems to me that the missiles and nukes were not used by Pakistan because Pakistan does not have them.

partha wrote:Even if the missiles have faulty guidance system, they just have to launch them in the general direction of India and make it fall in Indian territory to claim victory.

I agree. So, I think their missiles itself are faulty, not just guidance system. Otherwise, they can just fire in general direction of Bhaarath to threaten.

SSridhar · Post by **SSridhar** » 19 Jul 2015 10:38

A_Gupta wrote:"Multi-pronged Pak Strategy Better than Dialogue Hopes"
G Parthasarathy writes:
The hysterical Pakistan army’s response of threatening nuclear escalation provoked powers like the US and the UK to turn the screws on Pakistan and discuss issues of terrorism with India, while urging India to resume diplomatic engagement with its western neighbour.

So, one leg of the theory on why Ufa happened is now clear. The other leg, i.e. the SCO theory, one hopes would also come to light soon. I presume that G.Parthasarathy has sidestepped that for the present at least.

SSridhar · Post by **SSridhar** » 19 Jul 2015 10:57

johneeG, it will be dangerous to proceed on the assumption that Pakistan is nuke & missile nude. It is certainly not nuke nude IMHO because the design and assembly process all belong to a working weapon of China. Pakistan has the Uranium (and other material) to make the weapon. Whether Pakistan possesses Pu-based weapons or more sophisticated weapons than the simple 1964 vintage Chinese design is a moot point. It has at least some working weapons of an old but working model.

On the question of missiles, 1999 was long back. It has certainly got some working missiles. Their ranges and accuracy are unknown. But, do they bother the PA? The PA is not a counter-force nuclear state, it is a counter-value state. It needs to show to its people and the Islamic world that the mard-al-momin hit the mushraqeen land with the ultimate weapon.

gakakkad · Post by **gakakkad** » 19 Jul 2015 11:23

while it is extremely likely that Pak is nook nude , it is always better to err on the side of caution.. Operational doctrine should assume that it has some nukes and that should be taken into account if and when we give them a gajwa-e-pehind....

Falijee · Post by **Falijee** » 19 Jul 2015 17:01

Pakistani Paper Criticizes Army Action Against MQM/ Altaf Hussein

Intimidatory tactics

In extraordinary times will inevitably come extraordinary measures — but the costs are piling up and perhaps now unacceptably from a civil rights perspective.

That an ex-minister belonging to the MQM, Rauf Siddiqui, has to approach the Sindh High Court to obtain protective bail after the police booked him under anti-terrorism laws for listening to a speech by his party leader Altaf Hussain is mind-boggling.

Consider the extraordinary contrast between the repression of the MQM and the space once again being afforded to a banned group like the ASWJ, which is no stranger to hate speech and that yesterday held public rallies rather incredibly in defence of the military.

But then Altaf & Co have always been considered RAA agents

To be sure, Altaf Hussain is only attacking the military leadership because his own party is under siege by the security apparatus.

It was only recently that his party still seemed to regard the military as a panacea and urged it to intervene in national politics.

Slowly and surely an East Pakistan like situation will develop here; Altaf & Ten Percenti need to join hands again to take up Pakjabi establishment

That a wide-ranging operation is needed in the province cannot be disputed. That it should focus on crime and terrorism, including atrocities committed by MQM militants, and be mindful of civil liberties is very clear too.[/quote]

Falijee · Post by **Falijee** » 19 Jul 2015 17:10

Confirmation That Robust Response To L.O.C. Violations Is Working

Indian ceasefire violation against spirit of Ufa understanding: FO

ISLAMABAD: A day after firing was reported at the Line of Control, Pakistan lodged a strong protest with India over what the Foreign Office said is an "offensive posture" [*]of Indian security forces and a provocative act against the spirit of the Ufa understanding.

[*] A.D's strategy of offensive-defensive ?

"We hope that the Indian government observes the understanding reached between the two sides during 2003 to maintain peace and tranquility at the LoC and Working Boundary in letter and spirit," FO spokesman Qazi Khalilullah said in a statement.

The spokesman lamented [*]that four civilians lost their lives on July 15 and 16 when people were busy preparing for the sacred occasion of Eidul Fitr.

[*] But no mention of the provocations that would have led to these actions

Falijee · Post by **Falijee** » 19 Jul 2015 18:42

Madressah Math, Maulvis And Militancy

Paki Activist Praises Maharashtra's B.J.P. Government

EARLIER this month, Maharashtra’s BJP government voted to derecognise schools that teach religion without also teaching the primary subjects: mathematics, science, and English. Although a few Vedic schools are likely to be classified as ‘non-schools’, this step is primarily directed towards the state’s madressahs. To be eligible for state grants, they must now teach primary subjects in addition to traditional madressah subjects. By this decision any child, male or female, will officially be considered uneducated and out-of-school if enrolled in an institution that does not follow the state’s formal school syllabus in these subjects.

It is a fact that children who do not know English, math, or science cannot compete in the job market or benefit from university-level education. They become the victim of conspiracy theories,[*] pseudo-scientific nonsense,[*][*] and various forms of illogic. Madressah graduates can become maulvis and qazis but not engineers, scientists, or doctors. India sees its madressahs as posing a serious education problem but not — at least officially — as a terrorism problem.

[*] 911 a Jewish Conspiracy

[*][*] 'water running' car

Even if by some miracle NAP’s idea of madressah reform could be implemented, it would scarcely change the worldview that makes militancy attractive. Living in a primitive world where he is cut off from modern thought and almost all sources of authentic information, the madressah student can be made to believe anything. Unless horizons are broadened by including secular subjects, madressahs will remain a perennial danger to state and society. Paradoxically, the BJP’s approach to madressah reform is the more enlightened one!

Difficult or not, ultimately there is no alternative but for the Pakistani state to bring madressah and mosque under its control. Mere policing will not do. Instead, the content of instruction must be shifted away from a paranoid and destructive vision of the world towards an inclusive and reasoned one. Pakistan must do so even in the face of street power, as well as disapproval by Arab countries that fund those brands of madressahs which serve their narrow ideological interests. Therefore reform must be done incrementally and carefully, and without provoking a massive backlash. But it has to be done.

[*]

[*] But what will happen to the 'qualified' maulvis who will lose their jobs

Export them to Saudia

Amber G. · Post by **Amber G.** » 19 Jul 2015 19:08

Okay, gustakhee maaf but this non-expert wants to ask why would anyone buy used Pakistani tweezers (set of 4 for $9.99+ $5.54 for shipping) ?

..00SA Used Anti-acid Stainless Antimagnetic Tweezer. Some from Pakistan and some from Switzerland. 14 day warranty from day of delivery. Buyer pays return .

Peregrine · Post by **Peregrine** » 19 Jul 2015 19:29

Pakistan committed to improving ties with India: Basit

NEW DELHI: Pakistani High Commissioner in India, Abdul Basit said on the occasion of Eid-ul-Fitr on Saturday that Pakistan is committed to improving bilateral ties with India.

Basit told media in New Delhi today that he hoped relations between the two countries will improve and “if both sides have the will, then there is no reason our issues such as poverty, illiteracy and disease are not resolved.”

Cheers

Prem · Post by **Prem** » 19 Jul 2015 23:35

Peregrine wrote:[url=http://www.thenews.com.pk/article-19151 ... dia:-Basit]P
NEW DELHI: Pakistani High Commissioner in India, Abdul Basit said on the occasion of Eid-ul-Fitr on Saturday that Pakistan is committed to improving bilateral ties with India. Basit told media in New Delhi today that he hoped relations between the two countries will improve and “if both sides have the will, then there is no reason our issues such as poverty, illiteracy and disease are not resolved.”

Where did you get the picture of winged Pig in Ambar? This Abdul Bashit did not mention Kashmir or terrorism . Paki are beginning to realize they will become utterly irrelevant by end of Modi' 2nd term.

Peregrine · Post by **Peregrine** » 20 Jul 2015 02:18

Peregrine wrote:[url=http://www.thenews.com.pk/article-19151 ... dia:-Basit]
NEW DELHI: Pakistani High Commissioner in India, Abdul Basit said on the occasion of Eid-ul-Fitr on Saturday that Pakistan is committed to improving bilateral ties with India. Basit told media in New Delhi today that he hoped relations between the two countries will improve and “if both sides have the will, then there is no reason our issues such as poverty, illiteracy and disease are not resolved.”

Jhujar wrote:Where did you get the picture of winged Pig in Ambar? This Abdul Bashit did not mention Kashmir or terrorism . Paki are beginning to realize they will become utterly irrelevant by end of Modi' 2nd term.

Jhujar Ji :

Winged Pig in Ambar : http://www.makeitpossible.com/images/fo ... ng-pig.gif

Seems that Basit is "Shell-Shocked". I hope that Nawaz does likewise.
Cheers

Gagan · Post by **Gagan** » 20 Jul 2015 04:34

^^^
Why are joo posting taap secret photo of Pak Fizzaiya JF-17 Bandar taiyyara, hain ji!!!!

Anujan · Post by **Anujan** » 20 Jul 2015 05:48

The basic way Pakis thought about Kargil was as follows

1. Occupy Kargil heights, threaten NHA1. Indians cant dislodge them after 1-2 weeks of fighting. Claim that "Mujahideen" are doing the occupation (this is a key element)
2. India at that point has no options but to escalate by opening some other front. This will immediately bring international condemnation and ceasefire

Now Pakis have salami sliced territory from India and using NH1A becomes unsustainable. We cannot resupply Siachen and/or have trouble moving men & materiel into JK. Pakis take Siachen and force a resolution on their terms in JK.

The "Occupied by mujahideen" and only India using escalatory tactic is very important part of the strategy. What happened is that the Bania SDREs called for "Sanctity of LoC". Made the war into taking back our own territory. Pakis could not overtly even bomb our supply depots with air power. They couldnt open another front (which would mean "mujahideen story" is all bullsh1t). They did try going up the escalatory ladder by claiming we bombed their side of LoC. The rest of the world was convinced about two things

1. Prevent opening up of other front
2. Let SDREs clean out the Pakis in the specific areas Pakis became Pakis.

The news from that era makes for interesting reading:

http://www.rediff.com/news/1999/jul/06aziz.htm

Pakistan Foreign Minister Sartaj Aziz {yes same fella} has said that some progress on the Kashmir issue was needed to persuade the militants to withdraw from the Kargil sector.

''If the Mujahideen or the freedom fighters, as we call them, are going to be persuaded to withdraw, then they obviously would do so if the world is paying some attention to their concerns and their right of self-determination,'' Aziz told BBC World Television from Washington.

Pakistani Prime Minister Nawaz Sharief and US President Bill Clinton reached an agreement in Washington yesterday under which the Mujahideen would withdraw and the Line of Control dividing the area would be restored.{Look how even Rediff is calling them "Mujahideen" and believes the Paki story instead of our own army who called them regulars. A better wording would be "under which Pakistan army regulars dressed up as the Mujahideen would withdraw"}

The way we word news is very important. In general SDREs are very loose with them and Pakis are very disciplined with them. For example, IIRC Paki statement called for the "dispersal" (not withdrawal) of "mujahideen". SDRE newspapers faithfully carried it. BRF did its part by correctly calling it downhill skiing of Northern Flight Infantry.

http://www.frontline.in/static/html/fl1615/16150120.htm

Foreign Minister Sartaj Aziz said at a briefing on July 11: "Following the mujahideen's positive response to our appeal to de-escalate in Kargil, the Government of Pakistan and the Government of India have been in contact on the question of the restoration of the LoC. The DGMOs of the two countries met today and agreed on the modalities for de-escalation including sector-wise cessation of ground and air hostilities to facilitate the mujahideen's disengagement. {SDRE paper calls it "DGMO to facilitate Mujahideen Disengagement. I have a problem with "facilitate" (DGMO is ordering them), "Mujahideen" (they are regulars) and "Disengagement" (they are withdrawing. Or more accurately downhill skiing.) Remember what I said about words}"

According to a report in the Pakistani newspaper The Nation (July 9), the U.S. and Pakistan had prepared their own drafts of a joint statement. In its draft the U.S. had described Pakistan as an "aggressor" and called upon Islamabad to withdraw its forces from Indian territory. "The process of marrying the two (Pakistani and U.S. drafts) saw many ups and downs. Finally, Sharif and Clinton personally gave it a final shape," the newspaper reported.

The "compromise solution" is obvious. The U.S., which has repeatedly called for a withdrawal of the intruders{US calls Pakistan the aggressor and tones it down to "intruder" our own papers call them "Mujahideen"}, did not want to embarrass Pakistan. Equally, it did not want to dilute its concerns. This explains the final formulation.

This PDF from Rand makes for interesting reading
http://www.rand.org/content/dam/rand/pu ... 50.ch2.pdf

Abhay_S · Post by **Abhay_S** » 20 Jul 2015 05:48

The Hippo is going on a Diet.

http://www.dawn.com/news/1195266/altaf- ... in-protest

shiv · Post by **shiv** » 20 Jul 2015 07:42

Pakistan's first bearded general Javid Nasir has written an article just before the Kargil was in Shitostan's defence jopurnal called "Calling the Indian Army's Bluff"
http://defencejournal.com/feb-mar99/chief-bluff.htm

Bulk of the India defence budget has been going to Kashmir. So when Gen V.P. Malik threatens that 'should militancy grow too much - India would be tempted to enlarge the conflict'. Who is he trying to bluff? The military planners in India cannot be so naive as not to know that the Indian army is deeply plunged and suffering from the worst imbalance of its history. They innocently think that the bluff of their Chief will work. By such large scale milking of infantry from Indian formations a very major strategic imbalance has been injected in the Indian Army's holding and strike formations. I say with all the authority and professionalism that 'THE INDIAN ARMY IS INCAPABLE OF UNDERTAKING ANY CONVENTIONAL OPERATIONS AT PRESENT WHAT TO TALK OF ENLARGING CONVENTIONAL CONFLICT'

The Pakis believed they had India by the balls.

After Kargil, Gen VP Malik referred to this article thus
http://www.rediff.com/news/2001/jul/27inter.htm

For instance, in an article published in the month of February or March, their ex-DG ISI General Javed Nasir had written that the Indian army is not strong anymore and can be taught a lesson. This misperception led to wrong deductions and actions on their part. Mainly, they thought they could get away with it.

I also think our reactive attitude has added to the problem. Militarily, we are never pro-active. This affects both our people and those on the other side. In the long-term, it has a harmful effect.

Back then Gen Malik had said we should be pro active. I hope that lesson is taken seriously at least now..

Amber G. · Post by **Amber G.** » 20 Jul 2015 08:47

Wrt to Kargil - This, may have been posted before, and it is American perspective but still some quotes/perspectives/interviews etc are interesting and worth watching the people
statements..
(18 minutes youtube video)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2CQbxi8T1Cc